Why own a gun?

deserteddotse

Karmaholic1

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

See the thing with me is I respect peoples rights.

And I respect the right of these children - the right they had to continue the life they were given. The right to grow up, to be happy kids, to wake up Christmas morning all excited. I respect the right of their parents to kiss and cuddle their children.

I respect the life of the teachers, life they had to give up to protect the children. I respect the right of their children to have their mother with them and the right of their parents to still have their children, albeit grown up.

Rights THEY lost because some think the right to own an arsenal if you wish is more important.

I respect people's rights. If one value's one's right to own a lethal 'toy' over the right of any of the 27 people (and many others who have died at the hand of one establishing his right to bear arms) to continue to live a fulfilling life, I can only look at this with sadness.

Sadness and so much sorrow for those who have lost their lives in this senseless massacre. Where is the respect for their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Those rights were snatched away in less than 10 minutes and hundreds of bullets. Innocent 5 year olds were gunned down like animals, while their classmates witnessed unspeakable horror. As a nation, we need to do better. Now is the time to seek responsible gun laws that allow people to defend themselves but don't protect civilians who choose to stockpile weapons whose sole purpose is to massacre. The National Rifle Assn has contributed millions to the campaigns of our elected officials. Amounts each official accepted are listed at opensecrets.org. Check out who from your state has accepted these contributions and vote responsibly.

dimitrispearljam

what is a "socialist type environment"?
i thought we all live in capitalism type environment...atleast countries we belong at Nato for exable..
if people at this type carry lolipops, than guns,,i prefer it for sure..
i love candies..

riotgrl

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

See the thing with me is I respect peoples rights.

And I respect the right of these children - the right they had to continue the life they were given. The right to grow up, to be happy kids, to wake up Christmas morning all excited. I respect the right of their parents to kiss and cuddle their children.

I respect the life of the teachers, life they had to give up to protect the children. I respect the right of their children to have their mother with them and the right of their parents to still have their children, albeit grown up.

Rights THEY lost because some think the right to own an arsenal if you wish is more important.

I respect people's rights. If one value's one's right to own a lethal 'toy' over the right of any of the 27 people (and many others who have died at the hand of one establishing his right to bear arms) to continue to live a fulfilling life, I can only look at this with sadness.

Where does it end? Whose "rights" are more important? Clearly, the Constitution and every founding document we have guarantee the right to life as most valuable. Why does the right to own a gun trump my right to live?

dimitrispearljam

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

See the thing with me is I respect peoples rights.

And I respect the right of these children - the right they had to continue the life they were given. The right to grow up, to be happy kids, to wake up Christmas morning all excited. I respect the right of their parents to kiss and cuddle their children.

I respect the life of the teachers, life they had to give up to protect the children. I respect the right of their children to have their mother with them and the right of their parents to still have their children, albeit grown up.

Rights THEY lost because some think the right to own an arsenal if you wish is more important.

I respect people's rights. If one value's one's right to own a lethal 'toy' over the right of any of the 27 people (and many others who have died at the hand of one establishing his right to bear arms) to continue to live a fulfilling life, I can only look at this with sadness.

you just said thoughts of alot of us here...and in better english than mine ofcourse...

pandora

deserteddotse wrote:

pandora wrote:

What we are seeing here is some people who have had guns banned in their countries.
Countries nothing like America. That's ok for you guys, you like this socialist type
environment. This is what you wanted, you think it is a good thing.
A government that is big taking care of you.

If a "socialist type environment" keeps me away from people waving their guns around in the street, then yes, I think this "socialist type environment" is my thing...

Socialist type environment... :fp:

Is this what you have?

comebackgirl

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

See the thing with me is I respect peoples rights.

And I respect the right of these children - the right they had to continue the life they were given. The right to grow up, to be happy kids, to wake up Christmas morning all excited. I respect the right of their parents to kiss and cuddle their children.

I respect the life of the teachers, life they had to give up to protect the children. I respect the right of their children to have their mother with them and the right of their parents to still have their children, albeit grown up.

Rights THEY lost because some think the right to own an arsenal if you wish is more important.

I respect people's rights. If one value's one's right to own a lethal 'toy' over the right of any of the 27 people (and many others who have died at the hand of one establishing his right to bear arms) to continue to live a fulfilling life, I can only look at this with sadness.

really well said redrock.

And as for the "socialist type environment" - maybe if we all started to realize that it is all of our job to take care of each other, we wouldn't be shooting the shit out of each other. It seems that when guns intersect with an environment in which the rights of the individual trump the good of the collective, we get disaster

redrock

For those that would be interested: Sweden is constitutional monarchy with a Conservative prime minister, the main party being a centre right one. Sweden is not a socialist country - it is solidly based on market economy.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

See the thing with me is I respect peoples rights.

And I respect the right of these children - the right they had to continue the life they were given. The right to grow up, to be happy kids, to wake up Christmas morning all excited. I respect the right of their parents to kiss and cuddle their children.

I respect the life of the teachers, life they had to give up to protect the children. I respect the right of their children to have their mother with them and the right of their parents to still have their children, albeit grown up.

Rights THEY lost because some think the right to own an arsenal if you wish is more important.

I respect people's rights. If one value's one's right to own a lethal 'toy' over the right of any of the 27 people (and many others who have died at the hand of one establishing his right to bear arms) to continue to live a fulfilling life, I can only look at this with sadness.

If you and others respect the rights then broaden your agenda
and help make mental health help readily available affordable to people who need it.
Help with awareness. That is the solution banning guns does not mean
this killer would not kill. The proper help could have.
Go to one of the sources of the problem and in doing so aid countless of others.
Not only helping those who are suffering as this shooter but
the suicides ... one million world wide each year. Family abuse, substance abuse,
anxiety work related, on and on.
By making mental health our number one priority we save many lives
so many lives that have rights. The right to pursue
a life of happiness and fulfillment without mental illness.

The problem is people just don't care about each other. Not enough
to make the real change needed. It is so much easier to fool themselves
that banning guns make bad things go away. It will not, bad will just find a different avenue
of destruction. We have to go to where bad starts and stop it there.
That is not with gun ownership.

pandora

redrock wrote:

For those that would be interested: Sweden is constitutional monarchy with a Conservative prime minister, the main party being a centre right one. Sweden is not a socialist country - it is solidly based on market economy.

are guns legal there?

pandora

I thought guns were banned in the UK and Scotland? no?

redrock

pandora wrote:

If you and others respect the rights then broaden your agenda

Oh Pandora... when will you stop regurgitating and actually read what others say. Agendas have been broadened. All have accepted that other 'avenues' need to be explored and changed.

Maybe you would like to broaden your agenda and realise that gun ownership is part of the problem - and a big part of it. Whether you like it or not.

pandora wrote:

We have to go to where bad starts and stop it there.
That is not with gun ownership.

Umm.... yes it is. All part of the problem. Again, whether you like it or not.

redrock

pandora wrote:

I thought guns were banned in the UK and Scotland? no?

No

redrock

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

For those that would be interested: Sweden is constitutional monarchy with a Conservative prime minister, the main party being a centre right one. Sweden is not a socialist country - it is solidly based on market economy.

are guns legal there?

Yes


Edit: Before you continue with your list, just google. Easy. You will also see that some countries have very strict gun laws, some medium, some lax.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

If you and others respect the rights then broaden your agenda

Oh Pandora... when will you stop regurgitating and actually read what others say. Agendas have been broadened. All have accepted that other 'avenues' need to be explored and changed.

Maybe you would like to broaden your agenda and realise that gun ownership is part of the problem - and a big part of it. Whether you like it or not.

pandora wrote:

We have to go to where bad starts and stop it there.
That is not with gun ownership.

Umm.... yes it is. All part of the problem. Again, whether you like it or not.

I can not agree with gun banning .
As far as gun regulation. This should be done by state as it is now. Let the people speak
and choose for their state. So I am not against gun regulation... I want it on a state level,
the Federal government need not be involved. If an amendment came up to support
tighter regulation in my state, I would study it over and vote.

We know the agenda of the gun banners here. They have made it pretty clear.

I guess one needs a good reason to own a firearm in the UK?
That the police decide this?

"Under Home Office guidelines, firearms licences are only issued
if a person has legitimate sporting, collecting, or work-related reasons for ownership."

Do people lie? Do people own guns illegally? I was reading there was a stun gun
problem recently there ... stun gun :? I would not want my government telling me
I could not own a stun gun for protection.

I have also read it is very easy to get a banned handgun on the streets in London.
I would imagine that would be true here also... whether guns are banned or not.
But the law abiding would think twice, the criminal not so much.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

For those that would be interested: Sweden is constitutional monarchy with a Conservative prime minister, the main party being a centre right one. Sweden is not a socialist country - it is solidly based on market economy.

are guns legal there?

Yes


Edit: Before you continue with your list, just google. Easy. You will also see that some countries have very strict gun laws, some medium, some lax.

Why thank you redrock ... learning is fun!

redrock

**sighs**.. Do people lie? I don't know Pandora, do they? You said you never lied and you never will... so could we extrapolate from there?

And I'm glad you're finding something fun that you can smile at.

Anyway... your posts seem to suggest you can read words but not understand context. Getting really tiresome.

I'm done with these kind of discussions on these threads about this tragic event. Done with people who do not read and keep on regurgitating the same thing. Done with people who think the right to own willy nilly lethal firearms supersedes the right to life of children (and adults). Done with people who deflect with asinine 'arguments'. Done with people who do not want to see reality. Done with people who keep on portraying killers as victims. The victims are the ones that were massacred - some little ones literally riddled with bullets.

The little ones and their teachers are being laid to rest. Let's learn lessons from that. I know some can, if not all.

riotgrl

How about we all learn a lesson from this? Several people on this board and in these threads have said over and over that WE are the problem. Guns make it easier, lack of mental health care makes it easier, lack of responsibility makes it easier to kill, maim. The problem is how we are raising our children. Last week, at my school (a good school, one that everyone here would be willing to send their children to) a group of boys beat the shit out of a girl while across the same parking lot a group of girls beat the shit out of another girl. Ripping hair out, dragging these girls across the parking lot, beating their head against the pavement. These are our children, these are good kids. Want to know why they did it? Over a game. We won, you lost, now we beat you within an inch of your life because they were chanting fat girls. This is not ghetto high this is one of the best schools in the state. These are kids I had in class, these are kids that are good kids. This is not the type of fights we had when I was in school. These are scary as shit, truly violent, terrifying fights. Not about fighting over boys/girls but fighting because they lack empathy, they lack insight, they are only able to see what is in their best interest. How do you think they got this way? Guns? TV? Lack of parenting? A society that thinks the rights of one is more important than they rights of all? Look in the mirror this is our failure. Our failure as parents, our failure as friends, our failure as teachers, preachers, politicians, businessmen, community members. And it's not going to stop there until we make changes in ourselves.

deserteddotse

"I'm not sure what worries me more,
the fact that i'm talking to a wall,
or that the wall keeps answering me..."

redrock

riotgrl wrote:

Our failure as parents, our failure as friends, our failure as teachers, preachers, politicians, businessmen, community members. And it's not going to stop there until we make changes in ourselves.

'WE' are society. We 'dictate' (to a point) to our politicians, businessmen, those with influence, etc. what we want. I wouldn't say we have completely failed yet. But it definitely time for us to take a hard look at ourselves, reassess what is important and where we want to go. It's not easy and it's a long journey. But in the meantime, there are easier things that can be achieved to help clear the path and avoid too much stumbling.