Try a little exercise ... first off, can you imagine God? Really imagine.
Take some time with this thought. Do not apply any preconceived religious overtones,
leave yourself open to what your mind will conjure.
Keep this with you until it is comfortable, reliable...
could be days, however long until you sense fulfillment.
Then we''ll talk again.
...
NOTE: Focus on this topic (the portion that says, 'Pandora wrote:')
(The omitted portion of that message was nothing more than puerile baiting to get me off topic.
I am certain that you will respond to this (NOTE:) portion of this message... but, am hoping truely that you will prove me wrong and remain on topic).
...
That said, regarding your little exercise...
I have been soul searching since about 1973. That is about 40 years of trying to find truth. That pretty much dwarfs your suggestion that I try someting new, because it is nothing new to me. I have heard this very same thing... literally, a 1,000 times before. From religious persons and theologists and spiritualists and everyone else with a personal opinion on who/what God is. I believe it is silly to 'Imagine God' because the simple truth is, God either is... or isn't. Imagination is confined to the individual... meaning what I imagine is probably not even close to what you (or anyone else) imagines.
IF God exists, I believe He/She/It exists outside the realm of religion. Man created religion. Be it Jewish faith, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Scientology, etc... Your personal religion of one (the religion that you believe you know God)... it is the same thing.... concocted to fit you. Which is fine with me because I really don't care what people believe. It may be true to you, but it is not the singular Universal truth. It is just like every other religion that claims to know God.
My personal belief... to which I openly admit to being belief, not knowledge, not truth.. is that the knowledge of God is beyond the feeble mind of Mankind... in this physical Universe... at this space, in this time in Earth's existance. This is based upon the truth that NO Human, in the entire history of Mankind, has ever been able to prove it. There have been many, many instances of belief... and I have heard of a lot of them... but, none have ever expalined God to me. I'll even go so far as to call it 'My Religion'... the Religion of Cosmo... created by Cosmo.... suited for Cosmo. I'm not even going to call it a 'Relative Truth' because i know it is not based in truth.. it in my 'belief'.
So... I keep looking.
...
Again... please... try to remain on target and spare the personal commentary on who you believe I am and what you believe my motives are.
Thanks for sharing and remaining civil. I appreciate that.
I don't bait you, not my motives, I am trying to understand
why you are as combative as you are and if you can achieve what you seek here in this world.
I see you may have indeed decided you can not, at least not from your experiences so far.
You clearly have decided not to try to discover God in this life though you have searched.
You believe our minds are feeble when actually that is not true of our minds.
We are all capable in the here and now as you call it.
Have you tried this exercise before?
The exercise is really meant to help the individual on a very personal level feel
what God could be to them. Become accustomed to God being with you.
Many people don't have God in their lives, as you, simply because they don't know God
on a personal feeling level.
The exercise can allow barriers of logic to lower so you will allow experiences
that are illogical that will connect you with God and rid yourself of skepticism.
The proof that has been given me and others remains unexplained here in this world.
I will tell you if you experienced this you would know God, there would be no denying.
But as it stands now for you, you are not open to knowing. You have decided
it is not possible.
We have spoken many times about this. I enjoy the chance to share and hope
someday you will understand and allow yourself the possibilities
that are there for you.
A lot of dogs suck...but then again, most people suck. I think you are both right and they both suck.
I have never known a dog that sucks only masters who were horribly uneducated, irresponsible,
unfeeling and inept.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
Sorry to butt in but, I'll bite. What proof of God do you speak of, Pandora?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Sorry to butt in but, I'll bite. What proof of God do you speak of, Pandora?
You must experience it yourself Brian ... it would be cheating to share
thats a joke but the message is there. I bet you could imagine what would take a lifelong
atheist, as I was, to one who knows God every moment of every day.
This why of course I can not share. One must live the fear, the revelation,
the answer and the gift. It is a process on our journey.
Have you tried this exercise before?
The exercise is really meant to help the individual on a very personal level feel
what God could be to them. Become accustomed to God being with you.
Many people don't have God in their lives, as you, simply because they don't know God
on a personal feeling level.
The exercise can allow barriers of logic to lower so you will allow experiences
that are illogical that will connect you with God and rid yourself of skepticism.
The proof that has been given me and others remains unexplained here in this world.
I will tell you if you experienced this you would know God, there would be no denying.
...
Again... I had to edit out the juvenile baiting that you always place in your responses... PLEASE, stop this.
...
Now, to the topic at hand, regarding this exercise I need to do in order to know God. My first step is to 'Imagine God'. Now, don't take this wrong... but, what the Hell does that mean?
Is this the exercise you enlisted to know God? I should disengage all logical thought and base the truth upon what I would imagine the image/spirit/intent of what God is?
So, my imaginary God will become the Universal truth that I seek and what Mankind has been seeking for thousands of years. In other words, the goal is to pretend that what I imagine God to be is truely what God is.
...
That is the method you used to know God?
Thank you for validating my suspecions.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
A lot of dogs suck...but then again, most people suck. I think you are both right and they both suck.
I have never known a dog that sucks only masters who were horribly uneducated, irresponsible,
unfeeling and inept.
I agree with you on people who have no idea how to raise, care for, be responsible for their animals. Part of why Pits & Rotts have a bad reputation.
But, I just don't get how you can conclude that someone who has repeatedly stated he doesn't KNOW has closed himself to knowledge. If anything, it demonstrates openness.
(argh!)
OK, I'm going back to my sick couch and Judge Judy.
Sorry to butt in but, I'll bite. What proof of God do you speak of, Pandora?
You must experience it yourself Brian ... it would be cheating to share
thats a joke but the message is there. I bet you could imagine what would take a lifelong
atheist, as I was, to one who knows God every moment of every day.
This why of course I can not share. One must live the fear, the revelation,
the answer and the gift. It is a process on our journey.
...
Translation: "I have no idea, Brian."
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
A lot of dogs suck...but then again, most people suck. I think you are both right and they both suck.
I have never known a dog that sucks only masters who were horribly uneducated, irresponsible,
unfeeling and inept.
I agree with you on people who have no idea how to raise, care for, be responsible for their animals. Part of why Pits & Rotts have a bad reputation.
But, I just don't get how you can conclude that someone who has repeatedly stated he doesn't KNOW has closed himself to knowledge. If anything, it demonstrates openness.
(argh!)
OK, I'm going back to my sick couch and Judge Judy.
...
I've run across a few little yappy dogs that if I were fast enough to run them down and catch them... i'd punt them over the fence.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
Sorry to butt in but, I'll bite. What proof of God do you speak of, Pandora?
You must experience it yourself Brian ... it would be cheating to share
thats a joke but the message is there. I bet you could imagine what would take a lifelong
atheist, as I was, to one who knows God every moment of every day.
This why of course I can not share. One must live the fear, the revelation,
the answer and the gift. It is a process on our journey.
For me it enough to experience life which is mysterious enough as it is. I don't feel any need or urge to look for an experience of something as intangible as the concept of God.
I have experienced fear but have no desire to live it
You mention "the revelation" and "the gift" and yet won't share those? Was that a limited time offer? (Sorry- I couldn't resist. )
If you don't let us in on the secret, we're not on the same journey, right?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
For me it enough to experience life which is mysterious enough as it is. I don't feel any need or urge to look for an experience of something as intangible as the concept of God.
I have experienced fear but have no desire to live it
You mention "the revelation" and "the gift" and yet won't share those? Was that a limited time offer? (Sorry- I couldn't resist. )
If you don't let us in on the secret, we're not on the same journey, right?
...
I agree with this.
I would imagine if i possesses the enlightenment of knowing the truth about God... I would share it with everyone. I would find myself within the ranks of Moses and Jesus and... well, just Moses, Jesus and me in the true understanding of God and why we exist.
Unless... God gives me His gift... and instructs me to let everyone know I have it... but, cannot share it with them. If that were truely the case, i'd have a second question for God... 'God, why are you such a douchebag?'
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Another side topic on logic, truth and God:
I have had a few people come to me with this logical advice as you why it is better to believe in God, than to not believe in God.
+ is good
- is bad
0 is null
---
+ You believe is God and God exists. Go to Heaven.
- You do not believe in God and God exists. Go to Hell.
+ You believe in God and God does not exist. But, your belief in God has pulled you through tough time in life.
0 You do not believe in God and God does not exist. You were right, so what?
---
Totals:
Believe in God = + +
Not believe in God = - 0
Therefore, believing in God is good.
...
To which I ask, 'So... belief in God... to cover my ass, 'just in case' He exists... is good? How does God feel about that? (if He exists)".
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Have you tried this exercise before?
The exercise is really meant to help the individual on a very personal level feel
what God could be to them. Become accustomed to God being with you.
Many people don't have God in their lives, as you, simply because they don't know God
on a personal feeling level.
The exercise can allow barriers of logic to lower so you will allow experiences
that are illogical that will connect you with God and rid yourself of skepticism.
The proof that has been given me and others remains unexplained here in this world.
I will tell you if you experienced this you would know God, there would be no denying.
...
Again... I had to edit out the juvenile baiting that you always place in your responses... PLEASE, stop this.
...
Now, to the topic at hand, regarding this exercise I need to do in order to know God. My first step is to 'Imagine God'. Now, don't take this wrong... but, what the Hell does that mean? Is this the exercise you enlisted to know God? I should disengage all logical thought and base the truth upon what I would imagine the image/spirit/intent of what God is? So, my imaginary God will become the Universal truth that I seek and what Mankind has been seeking for thousands of years. In other words, the goal is to pretend that what I imagine God to be is truely what God is.
... That is the method you used to know God?
Thank you for validating my suspecions.
You know, you bait constantly with saying no one can know God.
By calling that bullshit, really nothing more juvenile than that.
But that challenge I am up for.
And you will always receive the same challenge back.
We need to explore why you think this to be true.
It effects why you are still seeking.
Do you hear negativity in your response? Narrow minded to this subject.
This does not allow you to understand.
I did not say anyone needs to do the exercise to know God.
I said it can break barriers and help one to feel God.
Welcome God into your life.
This very necessary for those who do not connect with religion.
People of religion are already open to possibilities of unexplained phenomenon/
miracles.
You say you seek, I made a suggestion.
And no the imaginary test is not the God you will know, it just allows you to be open,
not closed, to the possibilities. Knowing God is a process, a journey that starts
by reaching out, opening up, feeling. Your logical mind is looking for logical
answers and cynicism keeps that in a very narrow place.
The exercise is a way of committing to finding God which it appears you fight
this commitment. You might want to find out why.
This is the goal. Its very easy to say one is seeking God without realizing they sabotage
their own search with denial and skepticism. It is a way to find out how serious
you are about having God in your life.
This exercise I did not know 20 years ago. Would I have tried it?
Yes, what would I have had to lose?
Are you a suspicious person? It is hard to trust others, I agree, most especially here.
Trust has always been an issue for me as well. But you can know that
my motives are to help you find what you seek, if indeed you seek to know God.
Sorry to butt in but, I'll bite. What proof of God do you speak of, Pandora?
You must experience it yourself Brian ... it would be cheating to share
thats a joke but the message is there. I bet you could imagine what would take a lifelong
atheist, as I was, to one who knows God every moment of every day.
This why of course I can not share. One must live the fear, the revelation,
the answer and the gift. It is a process on our journey.
For me it enough to experience life which is mysterious enough as it is. I don't feel any need or urge to look for an experience of something as intangible as the concept of God.
I have experienced fear but have no desire to live it
You mention "the revelation" and "the gift" and yet won't share those? Was that a limited time offer? (Sorry- I couldn't resist. )
If you don't let us in on the secret, we're not on the same journey, right?
Yes we are on the same journey but different paths made by our choices.
I thought you would grasp the importance of living it
to being able to understand it.
Another side topic on logic, truth and God:
I have had a few people come to me with this logical advice as you why it is better to believe in God, than to not believe in God.
+ is good
- is bad
0 is null
---
+ You believe is God and God exists. Go to Heaven.
- You do not believe in God and God exists. Go to Hell.
+ You believe in God and God does not exist. But, your belief in God has pulled you through tough time in life.
0 You do not believe in God and God does not exist. You were right, so what?
---
Totals:
Believe in God = + +
Not believe in God = - 0
Therefore, believing in God is good.
...
To which I ask, 'So... belief in God... to cover my ass, 'just in case' He exists... is good? How does God feel about that? (if He exists)".
Is this based in religion again? Heaven Hell etc...
There is no good and bad to this. Everyone will know God one day.
Am I saying everyone should believe this? No. Some do, some don't, some pretend, some don't care.
We are free to make our choices on our paths.
For me it enough to experience life which is mysterious enough as it is. I don't feel any need or urge to look for an experience of something as intangible as the concept of God.
I have experienced fear but have no desire to live it
You mention "the revelation" and "the gift" and yet won't share those? Was that a limited time offer? (Sorry- I couldn't resist. )
If you don't let us in on the secret, we're not on the same journey, right?
To me, experiencing life as we live it, for the moment, is magnificent. Experiencing with the view of a 'something after', being only a belief, one would miss out on 'real life'/moment.
From a number of Pandora's posts, it would seem one needs to experience the contemplation of suicide, traumatic events, a light bulb 'shattering' on it's own (thus 'knowing' there is afterlife), etc. to be able to have god show them the way. More to show that a belief in god is not a truth for all but a relative truth for some.
'Everyone will know god one day'? Again, not a statement of truth but a personal belief (and a bit presumptuous too!)
For me it enough to experience life which is mysterious enough as it is. I don't feel any need or urge to look for an experience of something as intangible as the concept of God.
I have experienced fear but have no desire to live it
You mention "the revelation" and "the gift" and yet won't share those? Was that a limited time offer? (Sorry- I couldn't resist. )
If you don't let us in on the secret, we're not on the same journey, right?
To me, experiencing life as we live it, for the moment, is magnificent. Experiencing with the view of a 'something after', being only a belief, one would miss out on 'real life'/moment.
From a number of Pandora's posts, it would seem one needs to experience the contemplation of suicide, traumatic events, a light bulb 'shattering' on it's own (thus 'knowing' there is afterlife), etc. to be able to have god show them the way. More to show that a belief in god is not a truth for all but a relative truth for some.
'Everyone will know god one day'? Again, not a statement of truth but a personal belief (and a bit presumptuous too!)
redrock, I really like what you have to say about experiencing life as we live it, for the moment. I have struggled with that "revelation" my entire life. I completely understand what some on this thread believe by having faith in god because it is something that I have contemplated my entire life. I always felt out of step with my family because they were so firm in their faith about the existence and divinity of god whereas I could never, even as a child, reconcile this belief, this faith, to what I knew. I spent many years believing there was something wrong with me because I didn't "know" of god in the same way they did - through organized religion. I was told over and over that all I had to do was have faith and I did but I couldn't see god in the same way they did. I've spent the last 20 years of my life reading and studying and discussing to understand and I finally feel at peace that while god may or may not exist that I do not have to believe any certain thing about god that I can feel and see and understand nature and that I can figure out my own place on earth without someone or something else telling me what my experiences and beliefs should be. Now that has truly been liberating for me
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
yes cosmo -- there are opposites.
For me -- absolute truth hits you just once and while. If yer lucky -- more. That's the place I want to get to.
and what in your opinion are these absolute truths that hit once in a while?
Okay, I tried the quote thing. See if this works.
To catafrance; many a people seem to regularly reside on a more connected plain where they feel their inner influence (their "silent master", unwavering guardian, orbs, oms, angels or whatever the hell you want to call it...intuition) more keenly. When this happens for me, I feel it like a pure knowing and it reverberates throughout my entire being. That's what I call absolute truth and what I'd like to tap that on a regular basis.
If anyone suggests meditation will do the trick then I gotta say it doesn't work (sedate sitting om type) for me. However, when I'm busily immersed in creating something, I stand a good chance then of feeling most centered.
Still not clear about what you mean dancepartner. Sounds like you are still talking about relative truths, a realisation specific to you (the 'lightbulb switching on' moment)? Your truth? Maybe like: 'Wow.. after all, I'm brilliant and not at thick as I thought!' (maybe bad example but hopefully you get my drift...). Not an absolute truth that can be valid for Cosmo, catefrances, me, Riotgrl, etc. all at the same time.
To redrock; Oh. Well, in that case, absolute truths would merely be verifiable proof. "what goes up - must come down". These things I leave to the realm of brianiacs who finally agree via indisputable proof-based assessing that "for every action, there is an equal and opposite".
But for mere average mortals, here's one of my absolute truths: "because none of us are all-knowing, and nobody gets to have a crystal ball, to confine absolute truths to only what's been proven would be, to say in the least — plum assed stupid. Already, how many rock solid proof-based theories have been shattered along this road mankind has traveled? As in, the world is square.
So! Back to absolute truths. I fervently believe these come from within. Does that help? :?
I guess it's just a question of what you consider absolute truth and relative truth, dancepartner. A truth from 'within' - that would be 'your' truth - not mine (or maybe it could be mine as well). As said at the beginning (and you mention), no one is omniscient. There are many theories of truth - these have been debated for centuries by very learned philosophers. Though it is generally (not to say absolutely) agreed that an absolute truth is one that is valid for all, all the time, with no counter argument - this, obviously within our limited parameters. A framework. We live, we die. Not all absolute truths are 'hard' truths either - truth can be quite abstract.
Can you give an example of one of your 'absolute' truths from within?
For me it enough to experience life which is mysterious enough as it is. I don't feel any need or urge to look for an experience of something as intangible as the concept of God.
I have experienced fear but have no desire to live it
You mention "the revelation" and "the gift" and yet won't share those? Was that a limited time offer? (Sorry- I couldn't resist. )
If you don't let us in on the secret, we're not on the same journey, right?
To me, experiencing life as we live it, for the moment, is magnificent. Experiencing with the view of a 'something after', being only a belief, one would miss out on 'real life'/moment.
From a number of Pandora's posts, it would seem one needs to experience the contemplation of suicide, traumatic events, a light bulb 'shattering' on it's own (thus 'knowing' there is afterlife), etc. to be able to have god show them the way. More to show that a belief in god is not a truth for all but a relative truth for some.
'Everyone will know god one day'? Again, not a statement of truth but a personal belief (and a bit presumptuous too!)
My choice to stay here for my children when I was planning to leave this world has
very little to do with the outcome of knowing God and where I am today.
It is the events 3 years later and to this day that is the catalyst.
The light bulb shattering has nothing to do with my knowing there is a journey on for us all ...
this I learned far prior but seeing the funeral directors face was priceless
it was a strange phenomenon and if you knew my sister it made even more meaningful ...
yet of course explainable in logic.
Could your logic hold you so very tightly in place? Always applying proof.
The fact you think someone must experience what I have
you reveal this in your thinking.
Like someone needs A,B,C before they can get to D and this is set in stone. Everyone makes their own choices walks their own path.
As far as living in the moment, there is no appreciation like that of knowing God.
Each moment is part of the big picture of life and beyond.
redrock, I really like what you have to say about experiencing life as we live it, for the moment. I have struggled with that "revelation" my entire life. I completely understand what some on this thread believe by having faith in god because it is something that I have contemplated my entire life. I always felt out of step with my family because they were so firm in their faith about the existence and divinity of god whereas I could never, even as a child, reconcile this belief, this faith, to what I knew. I spent many years believing there was something wrong with me because I didn't "know" of god in the same way they did - through organized religion. I was told over and over that all I had to do was have faith and I did but I couldn't see god in the same way they did. I've spent the last 20 years of my life reading and studying and discussing to understand and I finally feel at peace that while god may or may not exist that I do not have to believe any certain thing about god that I can feel and see and understand nature and that I can figure out my own place on earth without someone or something else telling me what my experiences and beliefs should be. Now that has truly been liberating for me
Funny my experience opposite but felt remarkably the same in outcome.
I had no religion, no expectations of me as a child to believe. I did not.
I read a bit about religions and found nothing I could agree with.
I was a proclaimed atheist from youth.
Then events out of my control changed that when I was forty.
Events that changed not only beliefs but who I am and what I know.
This was incredibly liberating and fulfilling.
Too many times you have insinuated that 'we' have not had the life experiences that you had, not walked in your shoes, etc. and thus cannot 'know' until we do. So I guess it wasn't too unreasonable to think that if one did, one would be 'open' and be enlightened with knowledge and absolute truth on this matter. That's all. Just an observation. Doesn't really require debate.
Could your logic hold you so very tightly in place? .
Just as much as you insist that logic/rationalisation holds people in place, curb/inhibits them, do not allow them to 'experience' and know, etc., one can argue that your belief that you firmly pass as ultimate knowledge and absolute truth has the same limiting capabilities.
I did not say anyone needs to do the exercise to know God.
I said it can break barriers and help one to feel God.
Welcome God into your life.
This very necessary for those who do not connect with religion.
People of religion are already open to possibilities of unexplained phenomenon/
miracles.
The exercise is a way of committing to finding God...
This is the goal. Its very easy to say one is seeking God without realizing they sabotage
their own search with denial and skepticism.
This exercise I did not know 20 years ago. Would I have tried it?
Yes, what would I have had to lose?
There are discoveries waiting to be made.
...
Editorial commentary: **SIGH** Again.. I had to dump all of your predictable mis-conceptions of who I am and what I seek. What is left are the only remnants based on the topic of your 'exercise'. I ask for clarification and I mostly get harsh attacks on my character and my motives. which really do not bother me because i really don't care what people I don't care about say about me.
...
Topic: You originally said that in order to know God... as you claim to know... Your instructions say the the first step I need to do is 'Imagine God'.
So, I have to ask... if I do so... will I see the same God you imagine? That is the only way to prove that your God is THE One and Only God. If I imagine God as a talking cat that wears a business suit and a bola tie and yellow Crocs... that is God?
I am NOT looking for YOUR God... I am looking for THE God. Not the God of any religion... the God of everything and everyone.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Too many times you have insinuated that 'we' have not had the life experiences that you had, not walked in your shoes, etc. and thus cannot 'know' until we do. So I guess it wasn't too unreasonable to think that if one did, one would be 'open' and be enlightened with knowledge and absolute truth on this matter. That's all. Just an observation. Doesn't really require debate.
I know this is what you hear. I understand.
Kind of shows how well people listen ...
Another side topic on logic, truth and God:
I have had a few people come to me with this logical advice as you why it is better to believe in God, than to not believe in God.
+ is good
- is bad
0 is null
---
+ You believe is God and God exists. Go to Heaven.
- You do not believe in God and God exists. Go to Hell.
+ You believe in God and God does not exist. But, your belief in God has pulled you through tough time in life.
0 You do not believe in God and God does not exist. You were right, so what?
---
Totals:
Believe in God = + +
Not believe in God = - 0
Therefore, believing in God is good.
...
To which I ask, 'So... belief in God... to cover my ass, 'just in case' He exists... is good? How does God feel about that? (if He exists)".
Is this based in religion again? Heaven Hell etc...
There is no good and bad to this. Everyone will know God one day.
Am I saying everyone should believe this? No. Some do, some don't, some pretend, some don't care.
We are free to make our choices on our paths.
...
This is simply an example I provided when I speak to my Christian friends. And last I heard, Christianity was still a religion.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I did not say anyone needs to do the exercise to know God.
I said it can break barriers and help one to feel God.
Welcome God into your life.
This very necessary for those who do not connect with religion.
People of religion are already open to possibilities of unexplained phenomenon/
miracles.
The exercise is a way of committing to finding God...
This is the goal. Its very easy to say one is seeking God without realizing they sabotage
their own search with denial and skepticism.
This exercise I did not know 20 years ago. Would I have tried it?
Yes, what would I have had to lose?
There are discoveries waiting to be made.
...
Editorial commentary: **SIGH** Again.. I had to dump all of your predictable mis-conceptions of who I am and what I seek. What is left are the only remnants based on the topic of your 'exercise'. I ask for clarification and I mostly get harsh attacks on my character and my motives. which really do not bother me because i really don't care what people I don't care about say about me.
...
Topic: You originally said that in order to know God... as you claim to know... Your instructions say the the first step I need to do is 'Imagine God'.
So, I have to ask... if I do so... will I see the same God you imagine? That is the only way to prove that your God is THE One and Only God. If I imagine God as a talking cat that wears a business suit and a bola tie and yellow Crocs... that is God?
I am NOT looking for YOUR God... I am looking for THE God. Not the God of any religion... the God of everything and everyone.
Just try the exercise ...
find pleasure in feeling God with you then work on the rest in time.
You want something with no giving on your part.
Give a little and see what you get.
Just try the exercise ...
find pleasure in feeling God with you then work on the rest in time.
Give a little and see what you get.
...
HOW? How can I try the exercise.. if you will not explain it?
You say, 'Imagine God'. I don't want God to be based upon my own imagination... which differs from your imagination. Unless you and I and everyone in the world share the same imagination, we will all see different Gods.
That very process is how religions are formed... Man, imaginning God the way they would like to see Him. The founders of Judaism and the Christianity and Islam... and you. In every instance, God is based upon the imaginary version created by Mankind... and you. you see God as you wish to see Him. I want to see God as He is... not how I imagine he would be.
...
And just a clue: Imagination exists in the mind and requires the application of thought processes.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
I don't bait you, not my motives, I am trying to understand
why you are as combative as you are and if you can achieve what you seek here in this world.
I see you may have indeed decided you can not, at least not from your experiences so far.
You clearly have decided not to try to discover God in this life though you have searched.
You believe our minds are feeble when actually that is not true of our minds.
We are all capable in the here and now as you call it.
Have you tried this exercise before?
The exercise is really meant to help the individual on a very personal level feel
what God could be to them. Become accustomed to God being with you.
Many people don't have God in their lives, as you, simply because they don't know God
on a personal feeling level.
The exercise can allow barriers of logic to lower so you will allow experiences
that are illogical that will connect you with God and rid yourself of skepticism.
The proof that has been given me and others remains unexplained here in this world.
I will tell you if you experienced this you would know God, there would be no denying.
But as it stands now for you, you are not open to knowing. You have decided
it is not possible.
We have spoken many times about this. I enjoy the chance to share and hope
someday you will understand and allow yourself the possibilities
that are there for you.
unfeeling and inept.
:corn:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
thats a joke but the message is there. I bet you could imagine what would take a lifelong
atheist, as I was, to one who knows God every moment of every day.
This why of course I can not share. One must live the fear, the revelation,
the answer and the gift. It is a process on our journey.
Again... I had to edit out the juvenile baiting that you always place in your responses... PLEASE, stop this.
...
Now, to the topic at hand, regarding this exercise I need to do in order to know God. My first step is to 'Imagine God'. Now, don't take this wrong... but, what the Hell does that mean?
Is this the exercise you enlisted to know God? I should disengage all logical thought and base the truth upon what I would imagine the image/spirit/intent of what God is?
So, my imaginary God will become the Universal truth that I seek and what Mankind has been seeking for thousands of years. In other words, the goal is to pretend that what I imagine God to be is truely what God is.
...
That is the method you used to know God?
Thank you for validating my suspecions.
Hail, Hail!!!
But, I just don't get how you can conclude that someone who has repeatedly stated he doesn't KNOW has closed himself to knowledge. If anything, it demonstrates openness.
(argh!)
OK, I'm going back to my sick couch and Judge Judy.
Translation: "I have no idea, Brian."
Hail, Hail!!!
I've run across a few little yappy dogs that if I were fast enough to run them down and catch them... i'd punt them over the fence.
Hail, Hail!!!
For me it enough to experience life which is mysterious enough as it is. I don't feel any need or urge to look for an experience of something as intangible as the concept of God.
I have experienced fear but have no desire to live it
You mention "the revelation" and "the gift" and yet won't share those? Was that a limited time offer? (Sorry- I couldn't resist.
If you don't let us in on the secret, we're not on the same journey, right?
I agree with this.
I would imagine if i possesses the enlightenment of knowing the truth about God... I would share it with everyone. I would find myself within the ranks of Moses and Jesus and... well, just Moses, Jesus and me in the true understanding of God and why we exist.
Unless... God gives me His gift... and instructs me to let everyone know I have it... but, cannot share it with them. If that were truely the case, i'd have a second question for God... 'God, why are you such a douchebag?'
Hail, Hail!!!
I have had a few people come to me with this logical advice as you why it is better to believe in God, than to not believe in God.
+ is good
- is bad
0 is null
---
+ You believe is God and God exists. Go to Heaven.
- You do not believe in God and God exists. Go to Hell.
+ You believe in God and God does not exist. But, your belief in God has pulled you through tough time in life.
0 You do not believe in God and God does not exist. You were right, so what?
---
Totals:
Believe in God = + +
Not believe in God = - 0
Therefore, believing in God is good.
...
To which I ask, 'So... belief in God... to cover my ass, 'just in case' He exists... is good? How does God feel about that? (if He exists)".
Hail, Hail!!!
By calling that bullshit, really nothing more juvenile than that.
But that challenge I am up for.
And you will always receive the same challenge back.
We need to explore why you think this to be true.
It effects why you are still seeking.
Do you hear negativity in your response? Narrow minded to this subject.
This does not allow you to understand.
I did not say anyone needs to do the exercise to know God.
I said it can break barriers and help one to feel God.
Welcome God into your life.
This very necessary for those who do not connect with religion.
People of religion are already open to possibilities of unexplained phenomenon/
miracles.
You say you seek, I made a suggestion.
And no the imaginary test is not the God you will know, it just allows you to be open,
not closed, to the possibilities. Knowing God is a process, a journey that starts
by reaching out, opening up, feeling. Your logical mind is looking for logical
answers and cynicism keeps that in a very narrow place.
The exercise is a way of committing to finding God which it appears you fight
this commitment. You might want to find out why.
This is the goal. Its very easy to say one is seeking God without realizing they sabotage
their own search with denial and skepticism. It is a way to find out how serious
you are about having God in your life.
This exercise I did not know 20 years ago. Would I have tried it?
Yes, what would I have had to lose?
Are you a suspicious person? It is hard to trust others, I agree, most especially here.
Trust has always been an issue for me as well. But you can know that
my motives are to help you find what you seek, if indeed you seek to know God.
There are discoveries waiting to be made.
I thought you would grasp the importance of living it
to being able to understand it.
There is no good and bad to this. Everyone will know God one day.
Am I saying everyone should believe this? No. Some do, some don't, some pretend, some don't care.
We are free to make our choices on our paths.
To me, experiencing life as we live it, for the moment, is magnificent. Experiencing with the view of a 'something after', being only a belief, one would miss out on 'real life'/moment.
From a number of Pandora's posts, it would seem one needs to experience the contemplation of suicide, traumatic events, a light bulb 'shattering' on it's own (thus 'knowing' there is afterlife), etc. to be able to have god show them the way. More to show that a belief in god is not a truth for all but a relative truth for some.
'Everyone will know god one day'? Again, not a statement of truth but a personal belief (and a bit presumptuous too!)
redrock, I really like what you have to say about experiencing life as we live it, for the moment. I have struggled with that "revelation" my entire life. I completely understand what some on this thread believe by having faith in god because it is something that I have contemplated my entire life. I always felt out of step with my family because they were so firm in their faith about the existence and divinity of god whereas I could never, even as a child, reconcile this belief, this faith, to what I knew. I spent many years believing there was something wrong with me because I didn't "know" of god in the same way they did - through organized religion. I was told over and over that all I had to do was have faith and I did but I couldn't see god in the same way they did. I've spent the last 20 years of my life reading and studying and discussing to understand and I finally feel at peace that while god may or may not exist that I do not have to believe any certain thing about god that I can feel and see and understand nature and that I can figure out my own place on earth without someone or something else telling me what my experiences and beliefs should be. Now that has truly been liberating for me
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Okay, I tried the quote thing. See if this works.
To catafrance; many a people seem to regularly reside on a more connected plain where they feel their inner influence (their "silent master", unwavering guardian, orbs, oms, angels or whatever the hell you want to call it...intuition) more keenly. When this happens for me, I feel it like a pure knowing and it reverberates throughout my entire being. That's what I call absolute truth and what I'd like to tap that on a regular basis.
If anyone suggests meditation will do the trick then I gotta say it doesn't work (sedate sitting om type) for me. However, when I'm busily immersed in creating something, I stand a good chance then of feeling most centered.
But for mere average mortals, here's one of my absolute truths: "because none of us are all-knowing, and nobody gets to have a crystal ball, to confine absolute truths to only what's been proven would be, to say in the least — plum assed stupid. Already, how many rock solid proof-based theories have been shattered along this road mankind has traveled? As in, the world is square.
So! Back to absolute truths. I fervently believe these come from within. Does that help? :?
Can you give an example of one of your 'absolute' truths from within?
very little to do with the outcome of knowing God and where I am today.
It is the events 3 years later and to this day that is the catalyst.
The light bulb shattering has nothing to do with my knowing there is a journey on for us all ...
this I learned far prior but seeing the funeral directors face was priceless
it was a strange phenomenon and if you knew my sister it made even more meaningful ...
yet of course explainable in logic.
Could your logic hold you so very tightly in place? Always applying proof.
The fact you think someone must experience what I have
you reveal this in your thinking.
Like someone needs A,B,C before they can get to D and this is set in stone.
Everyone makes their own choices walks their own path.
As far as living in the moment, there is no appreciation like that of knowing God.
Each moment is part of the big picture of life and beyond.
I had no religion, no expectations of me as a child to believe. I did not.
I read a bit about religions and found nothing I could agree with.
I was a proclaimed atheist from youth.
Then events out of my control changed that when I was forty.
Events that changed not only beliefs but who I am and what I know.
This was incredibly liberating and fulfilling.
Just as much as you insist that logic/rationalisation holds people in place, curb/inhibits them, do not allow them to 'experience' and know, etc., one can argue that your belief that you firmly pass as ultimate knowledge and absolute truth has the same limiting capabilities.
Editorial commentary: **SIGH** Again.. I had to dump all of your predictable mis-conceptions of who I am and what I seek. What is left are the only remnants based on the topic of your 'exercise'. I ask for clarification and I mostly get harsh attacks on my character and my motives. which really do not bother me because i really don't care what people I don't care about say about me.
...
Topic: You originally said that in order to know God... as you claim to know... Your instructions say the the first step I need to do is 'Imagine God'.
So, I have to ask... if I do so... will I see the same God you imagine? That is the only way to prove that your God is THE One and Only God. If I imagine God as a talking cat that wears a business suit and a bola tie and yellow Crocs... that is God?
I am NOT looking for YOUR God... I am looking for THE God. Not the God of any religion... the God of everything and everyone.
Hail, Hail!!!
Kind of shows how well people listen ...
This is simply an example I provided when I speak to my Christian friends. And last I heard, Christianity was still a religion.
Hail, Hail!!!
find pleasure in feeling God with you then work on the rest in time.
You want something with no giving on your part.
Give a little and see what you get.
HOW? How can I try the exercise.. if you will not explain it?
You say, 'Imagine God'. I don't want God to be based upon my own imagination... which differs from your imagination. Unless you and I and everyone in the world share the same imagination, we will all see different Gods.
That very process is how religions are formed... Man, imaginning God the way they would like to see Him. The founders of Judaism and the Christianity and Islam... and you. In every instance, God is based upon the imaginary version created by Mankind... and you. you see God as you wish to see Him. I want to see God as He is... not how I imagine he would be.
...
And just a clue: Imagination exists in the mind and requires the application of thought processes.
Hail, Hail!!!