The church system is full of evil men

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Comments

  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    hey TA,
    this quote just popped up during my travels(fortuitously i think) and i thought of you. its from that great philosopher steve jobs...


    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life.
    Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking.
    Don't let the noise of other people's opinions drown out your own inner voice.
    And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and your intuition.
    They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
    Everything else is secondary.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • hey TA,
    this quote just popped up during my travels(fortuitously i think) and i thought of you. its from that great philosopher steve jobs...


    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life.
    Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking.
    Don't let the noise of other people's opinions drown out your own inner voice.
    And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and your intuition.
    They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
    Everything else is secondary.

    :D
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    No your motivation, your behavior stems from vindictiveness, this others have seen as well.
    You can not let something that happened in a past year go nor learn from it.

    ah, yes, your anonymous groundswell of supporters. right. I forgot about them. :lol:

    something that happened a year ago? I'd ask you what the hell you are talking about, but I don't think even you know anymore. :?
    :lol: if you say so well great then...
    don't forget to ignore

    A favorite quote that I feel fits this thread and the discussion of family woes...

    "Remember that when you leave this earth you can take nothing of what you have received,
    but only what you have given:
    a full heart, enriched by honest service, love, sacrifice, and courage."

    Saint Francis of Assisi
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    edited November 2012
    What about the giving of others to you?.....
    You seem fixated on one accommodating to others to make them happy and not the other way around, why?
    Why can't others accept our choices?
    It is a two way street....
    Please do not assume what my ''mama' is feeling as you do know my life story or hers, cheers.
    Post edited by Thoughts_Arrive on
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    hey TA,
    this quote just popped up during my travels(fortuitously i think) and i thought of you. its from that great philosopher steve jobs...


    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life.
    Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking.
    Don't let the noise of other people's opinions drown out your own inner voice.
    And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and your intuition.
    They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
    Everything else is secondary.

    I remember watching that speech he made on Youtube, inspirational I must say.
    Thank you.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    pandora wrote:
    To thoughts_arrive; No, I did not pay much attention to who said what so I was not being specific. Again, I should have considered better what I had implied. For you, I only have compassion. I am sorry.
    There is that word again, compassion ...

    it is just as lovely to give as it is to receive

    The way you put it is, give give give and no receive.
    Give your time to your religious family members by going to church with them and nothing in return.
    You sound confused.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    pandora wrote:
    This is very ironic don't you think?
    Perhaps your family and I have more in common than I could even imagine.

    I have explained that all people are selfish.
    I have explained why I feel compromise, compassion, understanding
    is important to repair family relationships. I know... what terrible advice :?

    It is your choice if you want to remain in your family.

    My decades tell me there is great sadness possible in these choices,
    something I cared enough to try to help you avoid.
    Empathy for your loved ones is something you will learn one day...
    if you have not already. Hopefully while your Mama is still here.
    I have a feeling she blames herself though may not show it
    she may leave this world carrying that weight.

    We all have responsibilities to each other and guilt when we avoid them.

    May you find what you seek and I'm sorry you are unhappy with me as well
    as others who love you.

    You have nothing in common with my family.
    Perhaps repairing of family relationships could be done with others respecting and accepting decisions made.
    What the hell are you on about with your comment "It is your choice if you want to remain in your family.", my family would not cut me off due to church, you are really starting to sound ridiculous and are starting to get on the nose.
    Yeah as if you care so much to help me avoid such a thing.
    Please do not assume my 'mama' is carrying a weight.
    You do not know her or me.
    Seriously are you trolling?, you come across as a totally different person to the one that PM'd me the other week. I ask you to stop posting on this, you've upset me enough, I have said what I have to say and that is that, I will not bother with your views anymore.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    hey TA,
    this quote just popped up during my travels(fortuitously i think) and i thought of you. its from that great philosopher steve jobs...


    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life.
    Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking.
    Don't let the noise of other people's opinions drown out your own inner voice.
    And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and your intuition.
    They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
    Everything else is secondary.

    I remember watching that speech he made on Youtube, inspirational I must say.
    Thank you.


    Love this.

    For all it's worth, I'm happy I have stood my ground towards my family (well... my mother) regarding something that was very important to her and completely out of the question for me and my husband (yes... church related). So is my daughter - a lovely 'tribute' from her to us, she is getting a tattoo with (amongst other 'design' stuff) the words 'All that I am, you let me be' (lyrics from an AB song). Whilst guiding her, I shall endeavour never to impose my 'life' upon her.
  • KathiKathi Posts: 1,828
    polaris_x wrote:
    give me an example. I'm not sure the context in your question.

    sorry ... i haven't had time ... i do think it's important and when I get a chance I will ... heading to NY ...

    if you want to look up what the catholic church lobbies for as it relates to human rights issues as abortion and same sex marriage ... you will see their influence in gov't policy ... and just read thoughtsarrive's experience with his family ... obviously not all catholics are light that ... besides the sex abuse charges - i feel they are the most aggressive of religions to impose their agenda upon people whether it's through lobbyists or indoctrination ...

    Yeah. constant public naysaying by the catholic church is one of the main reasons why Italy still doesn't have an option for same-sex couples to enter civil unions, let alone to marry. the last decent government we had (before berlusconi's 3rd coming) was trying to implement a law on civil unions, granting basic rights, like to see your partner when he/she's sick, be considered for inheriting from them, etc. the catholic church raised a huge shitstorm, making public appearances called "family day" and the likes, where they condemned all gay people, and while they were at it, the "murder" taking place in abortions. this organization has way too much influence on this country, and it's not for the better. the only decent things they advocated in the last few years were opposition against the (illegal) notions to take fingerprints of all roma children, and to prosecute illegal immigrants & send them to jail if they were at a doctor's cause they were seriously sick.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    To thoughts_arrive; No, I did not pay much attention to who said what so I was not being specific. Again, I should have considered better what I had implied. For you, I only have compassion. I am sorry.
    There is that word again, compassion ...

    it is just as lovely to give as it is to receive

    The way you put it is, give give give and no receive.
    Give your time to your religious family members by going to church with them and nothing in return.
    You sound confused.
    Negativity often clouds ...
    when we give we receive, its the nature, it is karma, it is goodness, fulfilling,
    it is compromising, it is example, it is love.

    Do you think the past 21 years since I tried to take my life and realized what living
    really is that I have received nothing in return?

    I receive daily, here,there, everywhere because of what I give.

    "And he still gives his love, he just gives it away
    The love he receives is the love that is saved"
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    What about the giving of others to you?.....
    You seem fixated on one accommodating to others to make them happy and not the other way around, why?
    Why can't others accept our choices?
    It is a two way street....
    Please do not assume what my ''mama' is feeling as you do know my life story or hers, cheers.
    I do not ... I do know 'Mamas guilt' though and not only my own.

    People do accept others in give and take. Sacrifice grows character.
    Generosity grows spirit. Love grows soul.
    We all journey, we all help those closest to us grow, do you want to help
    your family grow? while growing your own self?

    In 30 years where do you want to be with them?
    Your Mama your sister? the women in your life.

    By loving them now, making memories, supporting,
    building a strong relationship, do you think all will be happier then,
    including you?

    You are a young man now you will be an old man then.
    Life can be filled with regrets when we do not fulfill our responsibilities
    to those who love us and those we love.

    Take my word for this, I have let my loved ones down,
    we pay the price today as many do, look around.
    Broken families, divorce, depression, vices, negativity, hate.
    Personal responsibility can fix all this.

    Seems like a huge point to you to give in and occasionally share church with your women.
    In 30 years it might not seem so big. You are living your tomorrow today.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    This is very ironic don't you think?
    Perhaps your family and I have more in common than I could even imagine.

    I have explained that all people are selfish.
    I have explained why I feel compromise, compassion, understanding
    is important to repair family relationships. I know... what terrible advice :?

    It is your choice if you want to remain in your family.

    My decades tell me there is great sadness possible in these choices,
    something I cared enough to try to help you avoid.
    Empathy for your loved ones is something you will learn one day...
    if you have not already. Hopefully while your Mama is still here.
    I have a feeling she blames herself though may not show it
    she may leave this world carrying that weight.

    We all have responsibilities to each other and guilt when we avoid them.

    May you find what you seek and I'm sorry you are unhappy with me as well
    as others who love you.

    You have nothing in common with my family.
    Perhaps repairing of family relationships could be done with others respecting and accepting decisions made.
    What the hell are you on about with your comment "It is your choice if you want to remain in your family.", my family would not cut me off due to church, you are really starting to sound ridiculous and are starting to get on the nose.
    Yeah as if you care so much to help me avoid such a thing.
    Please do not assume my 'mama' is carrying a weight.
    You do not know her or me.
    Seriously are you trolling?, you come across as a totally different person to the one that PM'd me the other week. I ask you to stop posting on this, you've upset me enough, I have said what I have to say and that is that, I will not bother with your views anymore.
    Do you mean yours? Or your family's also?
    A one way street heading away? Or a two way street of sharing and giving?

    You bet I care if I can keep someone from going through the hell I did,
    I will.

    Our pm's I build you up, I give what you deserve ... here I ask nothing from you
    I know you can not give. I really never thought my suggestion of generosity,
    compassion, and giving would be so toughly rejected. Our previous conversations
    would not lend to that.

    You asked me not to pm again so I have only replied to your words here.
    I will follow suit as I have said.
  • ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
    this thread is going straight to the history of locked threads fast.
    I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you

    Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl

    I love you forever and forever :)

    Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
  • ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
    pandora wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    This is very ironic don't you think?
    Perhaps your family and I have more in common than I could even imagine.

    I have explained that all people are selfish.
    I have explained why I feel compromise, compassion, understanding
    is important to repair family relationships. I know... what terrible advice :?

    It is your choice if you want to remain in your family.

    My decades tell me there is great sadness possible in these choices,
    something I cared enough to try to help you avoid.
    Empathy for your loved ones is something you will learn one day...
    if you have not already. Hopefully while your Mama is still here.
    I have a feeling she blames herself though may not show it
    she may leave this world carrying that weight.

    We all have responsibilities to each other and guilt when we avoid them.

    May you find what you seek and I'm sorry you are unhappy with me as well
    as others who love you.

    You have nothing in common with my family.
    Perhaps repairing of family relationships could be done with others respecting and accepting decisions made.
    What the hell are you on about with your comment "It is your choice if you want to remain in your family.", my family would not cut me off due to church, you are really starting to sound ridiculous and are starting to get on the nose.
    Yeah as if you care so much to help me avoid such a thing.
    Please do not assume my 'mama' is carrying a weight.
    You do not know her or me.
    Seriously are you trolling?, you come across as a totally different person to the one that PM'd me the other week. I ask you to stop posting on this, you've upset me enough, I have said what I have to say and that is that, I will not bother with your views anymore.
    Do you mean yours? Or your family's also?
    A one way street heading away? Or a two way street of sharing and giving?

    You bet I care if I can keep someone from going through the hell I did,
    I will.

    Our pm's I build you up, I give what you deserve ... here I ask nothing from you
    I know you can not give. I really never thought my suggestion of generosity,
    compassion, and giving would be so toughly rejected. Our previous conversations
    would not lend to that.

    You asked me not to pm again so I have only replied to your words here.
    I will follow suit as I have said.

    Is that you mother Theresa?
    I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you

    Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl

    I love you forever and forever :)

    Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Wow... :shock: Following all these 'wise' words bordering on megalomania, and hopefully to draw a line on this 'exchange' as per one's request (let's 'follow suit' ;) ), it may be worthwhile reposting this... (thanks again catefrances)



    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life.
    Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking.
    Don't let the noise of other people's opinions drown out your own inner voice.
    And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and your intuition.
    They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
    Everything else is secondary.



    Now... what was the initial subject of this thread before it descended into this?
  • ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
    redrock wrote:
    Wow... :shock: Following all these 'wise' words bordering on megalomania, and hopefully to draw a line on this 'exchange' as per one's request (let's 'follow suit' ;) ), it may be worthwhile reposting this... (thanks again catefrances)



    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life.
    Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking.
    Don't let the noise of other people's opinions drown out your own inner voice.
    And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and your intuition.
    They somehow already know what you truly want to become.
    Everything else is secondary.



    Now... what was the initial subject of this thread before it descended into this?

    something about unicorns and popcorn I think.
    I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you

    Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl

    I love you forever and forever :)

    Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    I like unicorns and popcorn....


    Ah yes... peodophelia/child molestation by priests being swept under the carpet. Sadly, the case mentioned in the original post is one amongst many - to many to even want to contemplate.

    OK, so a couple of years ago, the pope issued an apology, but specified the abuse in Ireland, nowhere else. He addressed the 'pain' felt by the victims but did not address anything else. Everything else has been swept under the carpet, the offending priest moved to another diocese/parish, pretending nothing has happened.

    Whilst there have been civil cases brought against abusers which resulted in 'hush money', how many of these are actually doing time for this?

    Kathi wrote:
    this organization has way too much influence on this country, and it's not for the better.

    Their tentacles are so far reaching, it's scary.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Of course the dialog never leaves the intended op ... funny stuff.

    So sad ...
    evil is everywhere

    Yes, God is there to blame

    do some blame believers whether they are evil or not?
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Zoso wrote:
    something about unicorns and popcorn I think.

    yes Cate's quote added was a nice independent thought ...
    one everyone can aspire to.... independence.
    I'm sure that quote many atheists live by.

    I certainly disagree that everything else is secondary, though.
    I care much more about others than that and fulfilling their needs fulfills mine.
    Personal responsibility far outweighs personal gratification.
    And from this the most growth is found.

    It speaks to the plan and purpose of life something she and I disagree with.
    I feel there is a purpose for us here. She feels she lives and dies
    in this fragment of forever. That her children do not live on
    and she has said she would be disappointed if they had this belief.

    This speaks to the 'life ends at death' and those who 'know we travel on.'
    Being all about oneself is understandable if you have but one life here...
    then nothing. I understand the lack of connection with the universe
    because I believed that once upon a time and lived a very different type of life.
    Thank God I found God.

    Now I know the connection, the importance we can be to each other,
    the responsibilities and yes the sacrifice that is divine.

    As far as unicorns rainbows and the such my beliefs are as real as any atheists
    and fulfilling for more than a lifetime :D
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    edited November 2012
    This is not a god/belief thread - let's not make it that way again. It's about the church, the deceit, the cover up, the ramifications. Not about cate's beliefs or yours or mine or TA's. Let's keep it that way. Start a new thread with the quote if you wish it to go in another direction.

    Job's quote is about life, not about god and to me seemed quite appropriate seeing where the thread was going.

    I guess one does not wish to draw the line on this 'thread deviation' , as per the OP's clearly expressed wishes, to bring it back on track.


    Well.. some of these abusers are 'public' - though admittedly some quite old. I'm sure there must be more on the internet. Reading quickly through this, I do note that a number just continued to teach/practice, etc.

    http://bishop-accountability.org/priest ... ame-A.html
    Post edited by redrock on
  • redrock wrote:
    This is not a god/belief thread - let's not make it that way again. It's about the church, the deceit, the cover up, the ramifications. Not about cate's beliefs or yours or mine or TA's. Let's keep it that way. Start a new thread with the quote if you wish it to go in another direction.

    Job's quote is about life, not about god and to me seemed quite appropriate seeing where the thread was going.

    I guess one does not wish to draw the line on this 'thread deviation' , as per the OP's clearly expressed wishes, to bring it back on track.

    :thumbup:
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    edited November 2012
    redrock wrote:
    This is not a god/belief thread - let's not make it that way again. It's about the church, the deceit, the cover up, the ramifications. Not about cate's beliefs or yours or mine or TA's. Let's keep it that way. Start a new thread with the quote if you wish it to go in another direction.

    Job's quote is about life, not about god and to me seemed quite appropriate seeing where the thread was going.

    I guess one does not wish to draw the line on this 'thread deviation' , as per the OP's clearly expressed wishes, to bring it back on track.


    Well.. some of these abusers are 'public' - though admittedly some quite old. I'm sure there must be more on the internet. Reading quickly through this, I do note that a number just continued to teach/practice, etc.

    http://bishop-accountability.org/priest ... ame-A.html
    I responded to cate's quote as others have...
    am I allowed to do that? Are you the boss now I missed that memo :?
    Post edited by pandora on
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Edited. On second thought, I should have done the 'preview' before submitting! Hopefully caught it in time! ;)

    Just trying to get the thread back on track to what could be an interesting discussion about the church, the deceit, the cover up, the ramifications.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:


    Love this.

    For all it's worth, I'm happy I have stood my ground towards my family (well... my mother) regarding something that was very important to her and completely out of the question for me and my husband (yes... church related). So is my daughter - a lovely 'tribute' from her to us, she is getting a tattoo with (amongst other 'design' stuff) the words 'All that I am, you let me be' (lyrics from an AB song). Whilst guiding her, I shall endeavour never to impose my 'life' upon her.

    I enjoy the children guiding me as well, as I guide them.
    Our loving connection that is bigger than this world.

    I finally listened to my Mama and she hers.
    She and I were glad to share this before she left this world.

    Unfortunately my Mama and hers did not. A regret she often spoke of.
    Her mother deeply religious my Mother rebellious and stubborn.
    The importance in that faded quickly as she approached death.
    She realized what was of true importance in life
    often not seen until death's door.

    From this I learned much...

    Dying with your mother is a big life's lesson.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    Edited. On second thought, I should have done the 'preview' before submitting! Hopefully caught it in time! ;)

    Just trying to get the thread back on track to what could be an interesting discussion about the church, the deceit, the cover up, the ramifications.
    ^^^^ oh yes just had to reply to your off topic there as it has great meaning
    to my life.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Catching up on the thread, one thing that does puzzle me are the other organised religions.

    We speak a lot of abuse within the catholic church, some of it coming to light but most still swept under the carpet but what of the other major religions? We don't hear much about such goings on in say, judaism or islam. Is it to say that it's not happening? Or maybe not to the extent of the catholic church. Or are they better at 'sweeping under the carpet'? Has the catholic church been singled out for some reason?

    Abuse is a power thing - are catholic clergy more into this 'show of power' than others? Or maybe it could be a culture issue as well. Just wondering what people's thoughts were.
  • redrock wrote:
    Catching up on the thread, one thing that does puzzle me are the other organised religions.

    We speak a lot of abuse within the catholic church, some of it coming to light but most still swept under the carpet but what of the other major religions? We don't hear much about such goings on in say, judaism or islam. Is it to say that it's not happening? Or maybe not to the extent of the catholic church. Or are they better at 'sweeping under the carpet'? Has the catholic church been singled out for some reason?

    Abuse is a power thing - are catholic clergy more into this 'show of power' than others? Or maybe it could be a culture issue as well. Just wondering what people's thoughts were.

    it depends. do those religions make celibacy a rule for their religious leaders?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Is celibacy the root of this issue though? If so, wouldn't they just have it off with random women and not young children?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
    In his excellent book The Lost Gospel of the Earth, Tom Hayden explores the idea "the basis of our present environmental crisis was laid long ago, when tribal systems of belief were replaced by formal religions. Nature-based mysticism gave way to human-centered theologies that sanctified the earth and taught people to see themselves as dominant over nature."

    My own belief is that all human-centered organized religions exploit the earth which sustains us and is all to often used as an excuse to exploit groups of people who do not follow the particular doctrine of any particular organized religion.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    brianlux wrote:
    In his excellent book The Lost Gospel of the Earth, Tom Hayden explores the idea "the basis of our present environmental crisis was laid long ago, when tribal systems of belief were replaced by formal religions. Nature-based mysticism gave way to human-centered theologies that sanctified the earth and taught people to see themselves as dominant over nature."

    My own belief is that all human-centered organized religions exploit the earth which sustains us and is all to often used as an excuse to exploit groups of people who do not follow the particular doctrine of any particular organized religion.
    human centered ? can you define what you mean by this?
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