The church system is full of evil men

pandora

brianlux wrote:

pandora wrote:

brianlux wrote:

There are indeed a lot of nasty people in the church, but there are good ones too:



Malcolm Boyd is one cool dude!

"By my definition, prayer is consciously hanging out with God.
Being with God in a deliberate way. "

Malcolm Boyd

this stuck with me awhile back, felt good.

Yeah, I love this book and I don't consider myself a religious person. This book was once a strand of hope in an all but hopeless time for me. If there are saints, Malcolm is surely one of them.

Thats a lovely sentiment and tribute...
I must check out the book. Uplifting is something I value in books and writing.
Thanks!

hedonist

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

good god. a mother's love and worry for her son. good GOD. coddle him. good GOD.

withholding precious moments. GOOD GOD.

If I acquiesced to all of the (eventually inconsequential) worries my mother has had for me, she would have an unhappy and unfulfilled daughter. A parent's job is, among other things, to raise their child to be independent on all fronts, to think for themselves, to stand up for what they believe in (or choose not to follow). If doing that leads the child to a path that parts from that of their parents, so be it.

I respect where TA is coming from, and his refusal to bend on something so important to him...and if my family ever disparaged me or called me hateful for not going to temple (and they never have), I'd say there's more to it than just religion, and going to church.

pandora

hedonist wrote:

If I acquiesced to all of the (eventually inconsequential) worries my mother has had for me, she would have an unhappy and unfulfilled daughter. A parent's job is, among other things, to raise their child to be independent on all fronts, to think for themselves, to stand up for what they believe in (or choose not to follow). If doing that leads the child to a path that parts from that of their parents, so be it.

I respect where TA is coming from, and his refusal to bend on something so important to him...and if my family ever disparaged me or called me hateful for not going to temple (and they never have), I'd say there's more to it than just religion, and going to church.

People must eventually learn outside their wants and needs. It is not all about you.
When something is important to someone they love this should be considered.
This parent child, child parent and all relationships.

It is not only a parents job to teach independence but to teach loyalty, love,
and family bonds.

One's beliefs do not need be compromised, just one's stubbornness.
It's ok to embrace, give, understand, fulfill and remember
the needs of those who love you.

No one is suggesting compromising beliefs only remembering the needs of others.

hedonist

pandora wrote:

People must eventually learn outside their wants and needs. It is not all about you.
When something is important to someone they love this should be considered.
This parent child, child parent and all relationships.

It is not only a parents job to teach independence but to teach loyalty, love,
and family bonds.

One's beliefs do not need be compromised, just one's stubbornness.
It's ok to embrace, give, understand, fulfill and remember
the needs of those who love you.

No one is suggesting compromising beliefs only remembering the needs of others.

I don't think anyone's insinuating the me-me-me mindset; it's about standing firm on significant issues.

Perhaps you're the bigger person for having been able to do this with your parents, or with your children. Surely they've held tight to stances with which you've disagreed, and vice versa?

By the way, being selfish to a degree isn't necessarily a negative trait.

pandora

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

People must eventually learn outside their wants and needs. It is not all about you.
When something is important to someone they love this should be considered.
This parent child, child parent and all relationships.

It is not only a parents job to teach independence but to teach loyalty, love,
and family bonds.

One's beliefs do not need be compromised, just one's stubbornness.
It's ok to embrace, give, understand, fulfill and remember
the needs of those who love you.

No one is suggesting compromising beliefs only remembering the needs of others.

I don't think anyone's insinuating the me-me-me mindset; it's about standing firm on significant issues.

Perhaps you're the bigger person for having been able to do this with your parents, or with your children. Surely they've held tight to stances with which you've disagreed, and vice versa?

By the way, being selfish to a degree isn't necessarily a negative trait.

But there is no need to be selfish in this case. Beliefs values are not compromised to accompany
a loved one to church. Simply explain that you do it for the love of them.

In some cases families can begin hurting each other and disappointing each other,
it escalates. Love begins to leave. Walls go up. Alienation.
This why I suggested pleasing and mending. A positive approach.
Lord knows hurting is not the answer, moving towards bonding is the answer.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

But there is no need to be selfish in this case. Beliefs values are not compromised to accompany
a loved one to church. Simply explain that you do it for the love of them.

In some cases families can begin hurting each other and disappointing each other,
it escalates. Love begins to leave. Walls go up. Alienation.
This why I suggested pleasing and mending. A positive approach.
Lord knows hurting is not the answer, moving towards bonding is the answer.

PANDORA. YOU DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT CHURCH. IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT. TRUST ME. LEAVE IT BE.

Thoughts_Arrive

pandora wrote:

I'll explain...

I'm suggesting you break this pattern of abuse in your family
with understanding and forgiveness.
Not even knowing your mama and sister I understand why they feel this way.
Your sister misses you being by her side, she needs her brother
and your mother, being deeply religious, fears for your afterlife.

Is it so much to ask to support the women who love you?
In doing so your heart will be healed and your women rewarded,
in turn so shall you.

It's not about the church or believing it is about love, support,
loyalty for your blood kin.
You will not have them forever nor they you.

Or you can remain with what makes you happiest
disregard their needs or what brings happiness to them,
your choice.

What the hell did I just read. I am shocked at your post and very disappointed that you are painting me out to be a selfish person in all this. I thought you were a nice person going by your PM's to me.
My sister misses me by her side? What the hell, she couldn't care less, we don't see eye to eye on many things.
Support the women who love me? Support them how and why?
Your last paragraph really ticks me off, disregard their needs?
What about what brings happiness to me?
What kind of person are you to say such things.
So I cannot live my life how I want, instead I must ''support'' my mum and sister and disregard my needs for theirs?
Unbelievable.

Thoughts_Arrive

pandora wrote:

But there is no need to be selfish in this case. Beliefs values are not compromised to accompany
a loved one to church. Simply explain that you do it for the love of them.

In some cases families can begin hurting each other and disappointing each other,
it escalates. Love begins to leave. Walls go up. Alienation.
This why I suggested pleasing and mending. A positive approach.
Lord knows hurting is not the answer, moving towards bonding is the answer.

Wow. Calling me selfish?
In my previous post I mentioned that you are painting me out to be a selfish person.
Well now that I have seen the above post you made later it confirms that.
Please do not PM me again.
It is people like you that cause my depression to get worse and for me to want to kill myself.
People like you that make me feel all guilty and dirty for being who I am.
How dare you.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

pandora wrote:

But there is no need to be selfish in this case. Beliefs values are not compromised to accompany
a loved one to church. Simply explain that you do it for the love of them.

In some cases families can begin hurting each other and disappointing each other,
it escalates. Love begins to leave. Walls go up. Alienation.
This why I suggested pleasing and mending. A positive approach.
Lord knows hurting is not the answer, moving towards bonding is the answer.

Wow. Calling me selfish?
In my previous post I mentioned that you are painting me out to be a selfish person.
Well now that I have seen the above post you made later it confirms that.
Please do not PM me again.
It is people like you that cause my depression to get worse and for me to want to kill myself.
People like you that make me feel all guilty and dirty for being who I am.
How dare you.

don't let what she says bother you. it's meaningless. she once posted on here how she felt sorry for my wife and daughters because they had me for a wife and father. she goes over the line repeatedly with her insults. just don't let it get to you.

dancepartner

Man, sparks fly when religion comes into the pic. When I first came on here, I was forwarned about trolls. I envisioned someone who intentionally baits, however, after reading this entire thread, maybe I was mistaken. Do trolls refer to anyone who might go into a "troll mode" but otherwise be a decent person?

This thread began about the evils that lurk behind totalitarian religions. Then, it could be said is was more specific; totalitarian catholicism. Then even, it could be said is was about how religion skews personal bonds. But now, it's turned ugly, there is a pitting against one, and if that's how it goes in the world of
trolls—I say this thread needs to die.

It is my humble opinion that: anyone who makes it thru childhood experiencing only religion delivering unto them rapture—not perversions, physical or mental, are damn lucky. My compassion goes to all who don't.
And as for Pandora, her intention was obvious: when you can, choose paths lightened by positives rather than darkened by negatives—(a dogma that's been around much longer than catholicism). I'd say her offering most likely came from how she herself found her center and was merely, from a compassionate stance, attempting to offer the same.

Yuk, I'm going to another thread. This one doesn't work for me.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dancepartner wrote:

Man, sparks fly when religion comes into the pic. When I first came on here, I was forwarned about trolls. I envisioned someone who intentionally baits, however, after reading this entire thread, maybe I was mistaken. Do trolls refer to anyone who might go into a "troll mode" but otherwise be a decent person?

This thread began about the evils that lurk behind totalitarian religions. Then, it could be said is was more specific; totalitarian catholicism. Then even, it could be said is was about how religion skews personal bonds. But now, it's turned ugly, there is a pitting against one, and if that's how it goes in the world of
trolls—I say this thread needs to die.

It is my humble opinion that: anyone who makes it thru childhood experiencing only religion delivering unto them rapture—not perversions, physical or mental, are damn lucky. My compassion goes to all who don't.
And as for Pandora, her intention was obvious: when you can, choose paths lightened by positives rather than darkened by negatives—(a dogma that's been around much longer than catholicism). I'd say her offering most likely came from how she herself found her center and was merely, from a compassionate stance, attempting to offer the same.

Yuk, I'm going to another thread. This one doesn't work for me.

I've read this thread as well. A little late to the dance... I'll abstain from making any comments, but I'm really curious as to why you might think it is your place to swoop in after contributing nothing to it, exclaim 'death to this thread' and- at the same time- dismiss some for being 'trolls'.

For that matter... exactly who are you referring to as exhibiting 'troll-like' behaviour? You've excused and promoted Pandora... so we are left to assume those in opposition are those you speak of? Is this not a form of baiting itself?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

dancepartner wrote:

And as for Pandora, her intention was obvious: when you can, choose paths lightened by positives rather than darkened by negatives—(a dogma that's been around much longer than catholicism). I'd say her offering most likely came from how she herself found her center and was merely, from a compassionate stance, attempting to offer the same.

you're new. you'll learn soon enough.

dancepartner

My apologies. I did react. I saw a pouncing going on but then I had remembered something about trolls and considered the possiblity. In haste, I posted two thoughts when I should have queried first.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dancepartner wrote:

My apologies. I did react. I saw a pouncing going on but then I had remembered something about trolls and considered the possiblity. In haste, I posted two thoughts when I should have queried first.

Don't be too tough on yourself. It's obvious you've got a big heart. This hasn't been lost on anyone.

Thoughts_Arrive

dancepartner wrote:

My apologies. I did react. I saw a pouncing going on but then I had remembered something about trolls and considered the possiblity. In haste, I posted two thoughts when I should have queried first.

Are you calling me a troll?

DS1119

There are evils in society no matter what flag you fly. I guess we should shut down the entire educational system because of the few freaks that choose to abuse their power over students and the ones who choose to cover it up. The Boys Clubs too. Girls Clubs. Boy Scouts...Girl Scouts.

hedonist

To Mr. TA -

Good thoughts to you.

Thoughts_Arrive

hedonist wrote:

To Mr. TA -

Good thoughts to you.

Thank you.

comebackgirl

hedonist wrote:

To Mr. TA -

Good thoughts to you.

I'd like to second this. I'm sorry for the difficulty you are going through with your family and the pain it has caused you. I hope you can draw on some of the support you have here to get you through.

comebackgirl

It's clear from situations like this and the countless other horrors we've heard that there are some evil men in the church system. Religion itself is not evil in my opinion, but there are people who use it as a tool to control, hurt, abuse and oppress others. There are some evil men who found that they could easily garner the trust of others by entering the church, and then abuse that trust to commit heinous acts of abuse. And the church was complicit in creating a culture that tolerated and supported that. I wouldn't blame religion for this anymore than I would blame football for the abuses Sandusky committed. There was also a culture at Penn State and within the sports culture that contributed to what happened there; Sandusky was able to exploit the trust that was placed on him because of his position, just as some of these priests have done. The whole culture of these systems that allow these types of atrocities to happen has to be held accountable. It sickens me that people deliberately place themselves of positions of power and trust because they know it will give them easy access to victimize and abuse. That makes it all the more horrifying.