"People vote Obama because they want stuff"

comebackgirl

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

But, the election was clearly decided by folks pocket books and not their uteri (is that the plural?). Even in immigration - it comes down to $$$$. Does anyone really think a single mom with 2 kids and no job is voting based on abortion rights, gay rights and clean energy?

Abortion rights.. Yeah, a single mother of two probably does have her own ideas about who gets to choose her reproductive health options. And she sure isn't going with the party who closed down the planned parenthood clinic where she gets her breast cancer screenings.

But she also probably voted on making sure affordable healthcare for her children would be available. She voted on wether she could not have her children taught creationism and abstinence in school.

And if that single mother is a lesbian... Yeah... "Gay rights" might be a big factor (although like me, she might call it "personal equality").

And if she has no job... She sure isn't going to vote for the asshole who railed on her because she's a lazy moocher who feels she's "entitled to food."

Good points. And as a married woman who is trying to have a baby I too want a say about my reproductive health options. I value the reproductive health care that Planned Parenthood provides to women, such as breast cancer screenings, HPV screenings and family planning. I don't want the government to tell me that my life and my physical health is less valuable than a product of a violent crime perpetrated against me. And I don't want the government minimizing rape and telling me whether it's a real crime or not. I want the people I care about to have the right to marry whomever they love and to not be treated as "less than" by the government. I want the people I work with to have access to educational grants and student loans and have help removing the barriers to the educational opportunities others were lucky enough to be born into. And I don't want the leader of my country to be so out of touch that he tells people to borrow money to start a business from their parents if they need to...forgetting that there is a huge segment of the population who don't even have parents to turn to, let alone parents who have that kind of money available. And I don't want him to dismiss me as a victim who is dependent on the government when I work 70 hours a week simply because I vote for the other side.

Prince Of Dorkness

comebackgirl wrote:

And I don't want him to dismiss me as a victim who is dependent on the government when I work 70 hours a week simply because I vote for the other side.

See... when you say something THAT clueless... that obnoxious... Saying that "the people who don't plan to vote for me are all a bunch of lazy moochers who want everything for free" is just the kind of thing I'd expect from a snobby rich brat who never had to work a day in his life.

And the news stories that he was reeling and shell shocked that he lost... love it.

The news stories that he hadn't prepared a concession speech and had to go with one written "just in case'" by an aide... priceless.

That he'd spent $25,000 on a fireworks show that never got fired... brilliant.

gimmesometruth27

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I just don't understand why democrats who want a level playing field where everyone has a chance through a quality education, safe neighborhoods and the same opportunities in life for everyone are considered people who want to just give people money for their whole lives and not have them work for it. It's so idiotic and I expect it from people like O'Reilly and Hannity, but come on.

it is easy to understand once you realize that the republicans demonize and scapegoat anyone who does not think like they do...

dasvidana

I am shocked that the Republicans keep making comments like "they want stuff." You cannot increase your voting base by insulting people who don't already vote for you. Even if Republicans believe the statement, wouldn't you think they'd be calculating enough not to say it out loud?

EdsonNascimento

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I just don't understand why democrats who want a level playing field where everyone has a chance through a quality education, safe neighborhoods and the same opportunities in life for everyone are considered people who want to just give people money for their whole lives and not have them work for it. It's so idiotic and I expect it from people like O'Reilly and Hannity, but come on.

it is easy to understand once you realize that the republicans demonize and scapegoat anyone who does not think like they do...

Or, you were being ironic? Very well then.

What's that you say? You were being serious? Oh. Ok. We don't see liberals doing any of that. Good point. You win, Gimme. I'll just page through the threads here on AMT. Yep. Right. None of that going on.

Just one question - what is 4 years of blaming Bush if not scapegoating? Oh!! That's right. You see the truth and nobody on the other side does. Again. Solid point.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

miss america list? whatever man. i am just saying that that list is representative of what many obama voters want.

and yes, obama would help with more of them than romney would have.

what is wrong with multiple life jackets? the vast majority of americans are not going to need more than one. and even if some need more than one, what is wrong with investing in people so that they can help themselves???

did you know that most states pay up to 60 percent of college costs? at least they did when i went. now missouri pays something like 38% and passes the rest onto the student. universities are pricing themselves out of many peoples' price ranges. thus taking opportunities away from the less fortunate.

Hey - first of all my miss america comment was not a cut down, just what popped into my head after I read your list. I think my style plays much better in person at the bar over a beer than over the internet, so sorry if I offended.

There is nothing wrong with multiple life jackets, but there has to be a limit. There has to be a point where enough is enough. In reality except on a few issues, I think most people are pretty close together on what they want and even on some of how to get there. Just like at a manufacturing plant in HR or as a school teacher, we seem to spend 90% of our time discussing the 10%...the problem 10%. I think part of the problem is we throw around terms such as "lazy", etc and people think we are talking about the entire 47%. That's not the case. I also don;t think you could apply the "less fortunate" to the entire population either. For some, they make the bed they lie in.

You know, I actually like Obama in many ways. I just got really turned off when, in my opinion, he made this an "Us vs. them" situation. I voted for him in 2008 to try and change that, and in my eyes, instead of changing it he escalated it (and I know that the republican leadership in the house played a huge role too). Then, he ran a campaign based upon, again, in my opinion, based upon taking more $ from tax payers with very little talk about spending cuts. He mentions his 2.5 to 1 ratio, but to be honest, I don;t believe him. My opinion is you must make the spending cuts, prove you are trust worthy, then I would be ok with increased tax revenue. Although, again, I disagree with his method of tax revenue growth as I would much prefer a complete overhaul of the tax code rather than just continuing to put lipstick on that pig.

There is without a doubt in my mind a segment of the population that believes the government owes them. Owes them food, shelter, etc. So I certainly think that population exists. And I do think it is very easy to get other people to vote for you if you are promising them different benefits with the idea that someone else will pay higher taxes to pay the bill. That's a no brainer. So that is a dangerous path in my mind.

That said, while pissed off that a guy running on a platform to raise taxes and more importantly a guy that in my mind broke the promise of bipartisanship that was important to me won the election (again, I wouldn't have voted for any of repub congressional leaders either), I am glad for a few reasons. I hope the issue of gay marriage will go away faster...because it is excepted. I hope that medical coverage is better for everyone without an extreme cost increase. While you and many disagree, I have respected his command of the military in regards to drones, etc, though more than I would like to see but I don;t have all the information he does. I'm concerned about taxes and blatant overspending (and yes GW did this when he didn;t have to). I'm concerned about the economy and businesses and the "China problem". I think someone else would have handled all of those better. Anyhow, end of rant that no one will read because it's too long.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

it is easy to understand once you realize that the republicans demonize and scapegoat anyone who does not think like they do...

Oh, and this type of rhetoric comes straight from the party handbook...and is part of the problem. We all do it from time to time, usually after frustration sets in. But what you said is quite a generalization, and just wrong for most.

comebackgirl

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

And I don't want him to dismiss me as a victim who is dependent on the government when I work 70 hours a week simply because I vote for the other side.

See... when you say something THAT clueless... that obnoxious... Saying that "the people who don't plan to vote for me are all a bunch of lazy moochers who want everything for free" is just the kind of thing I'd expect from a snobby rich brat who never had to work a day in his life.

And the news stories that he was reeling and shell shocked that he lost... love it.

The news stories that he hadn't prepared a concession speech and had to go with one written "just in case'" by an aide... priceless.

That he'd spent $25,000 on a fireworks show that never got fired... brilliant.

He's so out of touch that he doesn't even know he's out of touch. In his world everyone has parents. Even that basic assumption kills me. What about the people who don't have parents at all, or whose parents were neglectful or addicts or who prostituted them at the age of 5? And what about when those same people bust their ass through high school despite those situations, get to college, but don't have money for food let alone textbooks or tuition? Are they "victims" if they receive an educational grant or get linked up with food stamps and medicaid so that their basic needs are met while they make the most of an opportunity? Again, my perception may be skewed, but these are the people I know. The democrats, at least this democrat, are not about making people dependent; but instead about realizing that people are born into vastly different situations...situations that many of us are so fortunate that we can't even fathom them, and by removing barriers and providing an opportunity some people can really thrive. My goal is never to disempower people and make them dependent, but I can't really support them in their goals if my toolbox is empty. Things like the NJ STARS program and the educational opportunity fund are necessary for people to make their lives better. And while I may not personally benefit from some of Obama's and the democrats' policies, it matters more to me to provide an opportunity for someone else.

JC29856

2 quickies, both have little to do with who is president...
-the best social programs are initiated at the state and local levels. they may get some help from fed funds but as i see in PA and NJ most beneficial programs are state sponsored.
-the only bloc dependent on government is big business, has been and always will be, the pope can become president and this wouldn't change.

Prince Of Dorkness

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Just one question - what is 4 years of blaming Bush if not scapegoating?

OK, I'll break it down for you.

"scapegoating" is when you fictionally blame someone for something they didn't to. Or you blame them for something you set them up to take the blame FOR.

If you were in a coma in 2008, I'll give you a short history lesson. George W Bush gave the top earners "tax cuts" as a present for the economic growth and prosperity brought in by the Clinton years. He said it was because they were "job creators," even though those jobs weren't created until Bill Clinton raised those taxes to the level they were at.

George W Bush then lied to the American people and the Senate and House about "weapons of mass destruction" and the "axis of evil" and tricked them into an un-winnable war with Iraq, started a necessary but poorly-executed and astronomically expensive war with Afghanistan and then rewarded his Vice President's old company with "no-bid" contracts that paid out absurd amounts of money and hired mercenaries to do the dirty work of exterminating civilians (so they could blame the atrocities on them and not the military).

Adding to that, he passed a prescription drugs bill he had no way to pay for, spent money on all sorts of money wasting bullshit and when he left office in January of 2009, we were losing 800,000 jobs PER MONTH and the US economy was so close to total collapse that we literally could have been the next Somalia. And I'm not really exaggerating there.

The catastrophic clusterfuck in which we found ourselves was deeper than any time since the 1930s. And because of many factors that didn't exist at the time... the result could have been MUCH worse than the Great Depression. Much worse.

The problem wasn't an easy fix. It was systematic down to the core of the banking industry, the housing industry and even the corrupt corporations that scammed the people out of trillions of dollars. Those have to be gutted and rebuilt.

That black hole would have taken years to climb out of no matter WHO was sitting in the oval office. And as luck would have it, we didn't have someone who was owned by the banks or the oil corporations or the Koch brothers... so he slowly started to rebuild our system. It's working but it's going to take a VERY long time to fix. You don't get that fucked up over night and you don't fix that problem with a couple tax cuts, closing a few women's reproductive clinics and shutting down PBS.

Republicans fought him tooth and nail every inch. They are owned by those billionaires who weren't ready to stop fucking the American public and they did all they could to stop him. They refused to let those tax cuts expire, they called his overhaul of health insurance "socialism" and spread fear about "death panels" and concentration camps that FEMA wasn't building.

They demonized gay community and convinced unemployed people that they should vote for a party that would cut off their unemployment insurance payments or else the gays would be able to get married. They called college students asking for birth control "sluts."

So... I'll sum up in point form.



1) The economic disaster is the fault of the Republican Party. It pre-dates the presidency of Barack Obama.

2) If you voted for George W Bush, this is also YOUR fault. You must own it. I didn't pee in your pants, either. That's all on you.

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

Byrnzie

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Just one question - what is 4 years of blaming Bush if not scapegoating?

OK, I'll break it down for you.

"scapegoating" is when you fictionally blame someone for something they didn't to. Or you blame them for something you set them up to take the blame FOR.

If you were in a coma in 2008, I'll give you a short history lesson. George W Bush gave the top earners "tax cuts" as a present for the economic growth and prosperity brought in by the Clinton years. He said it was because they were "job creators," even though those jobs weren't created until Bill Clinton raised those taxes to the level they were at.

George W Bush then lied to the American people and the Senate and House about "weapons of mass destruction" and the "axis of evil" and tricked them into an un-winnable war with Iraq, started a necessary but poorly-executed and astronomically expensive war with Afghanistan and then rewarded his Vice President's old company with "no-bid" contracts that paid out absurd amounts of money and hired mercenaries to do the dirty work of exterminating civilians (so they could blame the atrocities on them and not the military).

Adding to that, he passed a prescription drugs bill he had no way to pay for, spent money on all sorts of money wasting bullshit and when he left office in January of 2009, we were losing 800,000 jobs PER MONTH and the US economy was so close to total collapse that we literally could have been the next Somalia. And I'm not really exaggerating there.

The catastrophic clusterfuck in which we found ourselves was deeper than any time since the 1930s. And because of many factors that didn't exist at the time... the result could have been MUCH worse than the Great Depression. Much worse.

The problem wasn't an easy fix. It was systematic down to the core of the banking industry, the housing industry and even the corrupt corporations that scammed the people out of trillions of dollars. Those have to be gutted and rebuilt.

That black hole would have taken years to climb out of no matter WHO was sitting in the oval office. And as luck would have it, we didn't have someone who was owned by the banks or the oil corporations or the Koch brothers... so he slowly started to rebuild our system. It's working but it's going to take a VERY long time to fix. You don't get that fucked up over night and you don't fix that problem with a couple tax cuts, closing a few women's reproductive clinics and shutting down PBS.

Republicans fought him tooth and nail every inch. They are owned by those billionaires who weren't ready to stop fucking the American public and they did all they could to stop him. They refused to let those tax cuts expire, they called his overhaul of health insurance "socialism" and spread fear about "death panels" and concentration camps that FEMA wasn't building.

They demonized gay community and convinced unemployed people that they should vote for a party that would cut off their unemployment insurance payments or else the gays would be able to get married. They called college students asking for birth control "sluts."

So... I'll sum up in point form.



1) The economic disaster is the fault of the Republican Party. It pre-dates the presidency of Barack Obama.

2) If you voted for George W Bush, this is also YOUR fault. You must own it. I didn't pee in your pants, either. That's all on you.

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

:clap:

*Put that in your pipe and smoke it*

pureoc

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Just one question - what is 4 years of blaming Bush if not scapegoating?

OK, I'll break it down for you.

"scapegoating" is when you fictionally blame someone for something they didn't to. Or you blame them for something you set them up to take the blame FOR.

If you were in a coma in 2008, I'll give you a short history lesson. George W Bush gave the top earners "tax cuts" as a present for the economic growth and prosperity brought in by the Clinton years. He said it was because they were "job creators," even though those jobs weren't created until Bill Clinton raised those taxes to the level they were at.

George W Bush then lied to the American people and the Senate and House about "weapons of mass destruction" and the "axis of evil" and tricked them into an un-winnable war with Iraq, started a necessary but poorly-executed and astronomically expensive war with Afghanistan and then rewarded his Vice President's old company with "no-bid" contracts that paid out absurd amounts of money and hired mercenaries to do the dirty work of exterminating civilians (so they could blame the atrocities on them and not the military).

Adding to that, he passed a prescription drugs bill he had no way to pay for, spent money on all sorts of money wasting bullshit and when he left office in January of 2009, we were losing 800,000 jobs PER MONTH and the US economy was so close to total collapse that we literally could have been the next Somalia. And I'm not really exaggerating there.

The catastrophic clusterfuck in which we found ourselves was deeper than any time since the 1930s. And because of many factors that didn't exist at the time... the result could have been MUCH worse than the Great Depression. Much worse.

The problem wasn't an easy fix. It was systematic down to the core of the banking industry, the housing industry and even the corrupt corporations that scammed the people out of trillions of dollars. Those have to be gutted and rebuilt.

That black hole would have taken years to climb out of no matter WHO was sitting in the oval office. And as luck would have it, we didn't have someone who was owned by the banks or the oil corporations or the Koch brothers... so he slowly started to rebuild our system. It's working but it's going to take a VERY long time to fix. You don't get that fucked up over night and you don't fix that problem with a couple tax cuts, closing a few women's reproductive clinics and shutting down PBS.

Republicans fought him tooth and nail every inch. They are owned by those billionaires who weren't ready to stop fucking the American public and they did all they could to stop him. They refused to let those tax cuts expire, they called his overhaul of health insurance "socialism" and spread fear about "death panels" and concentration camps that FEMA wasn't building.

They demonized gay community and convinced unemployed people that they should vote for a party that would cut off their unemployment insurance payments or else the gays would be able to get married. They called college students asking for birth control "sluts."

So... I'll sum up in point form.



1) The economic disaster is the fault of the Republican Party. It pre-dates the presidency of Barack Obama.

2) If you voted for George W Bush, this is also YOUR fault. You must own it. I didn't pee in your pants, either. That's all on you.

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

:clap: :clap: :clap: Well well said. W is without question the worst president in this countries history. He royally F'd up and we are still paying for it. If you don't understand that you are either a moron, or a dirty greedy republican. If they think their views of alienating everyone but rich old white men is going to work, they can expect to keep getting their ass kicked in elections.

pandora

So everyone here believes the President
makes all the decisions while they are in office?

That Bush during his eight years worked entirely by himself to fuck everything up?

That absolutely no one else was to blame nor any events out of his control
were to blame for the state of the economy etc?

Gee I always thought of the President as a figurehead kind of like a puppet
beholding to real power that is not in the form of one person.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Just one question - what is 4 years of blaming Bush if not scapegoating?

OK, I'll break it down for you.

"scapegoating" is when you fictionally blame someone for something they didn't to. Or you blame them for something you set them up to take the blame FOR.

If you were in a coma in 2008, I'll give you a short history lesson. George W Bush gave the top earners "tax cuts" as a present for the economic growth and prosperity brought in by the Clinton years. He said it was because they were "job creators," even though those jobs weren't created until Bill Clinton raised those taxes to the level they were at.

George W Bush then lied to the American people and the Senate and House about "weapons of mass destruction" and the "axis of evil" and tricked them into an un-winnable war with Iraq, started a necessary but poorly-executed and astronomically expensive war with Afghanistan and then rewarded his Vice President's old company with "no-bid" contracts that paid out absurd amounts of money and hired mercenaries to do the dirty work of exterminating civilians (so they could blame the atrocities on them and not the military).

Adding to that, he passed a prescription drugs bill he had no way to pay for, spent money on all sorts of money wasting bullshit and when he left office in January of 2009, we were losing 800,000 jobs PER MONTH and the US economy was so close to total collapse that we literally could have been the next Somalia. And I'm not really exaggerating there.

The catastrophic clusterfuck in which we found ourselves was deeper than any time since the 1930s. And because of many factors that didn't exist at the time... the result could have been MUCH worse than the Great Depression. Much worse.

The problem wasn't an easy fix. It was systematic down to the core of the banking industry, the housing industry and even the corrupt corporations that scammed the people out of trillions of dollars. Those have to be gutted and rebuilt.

That black hole would have taken years to climb out of no matter WHO was sitting in the oval office. And as luck would have it, we didn't have someone who was owned by the banks or the oil corporations or the Koch brothers... so he slowly started to rebuild our system. It's working but it's going to take a VERY long time to fix. You don't get that fucked up over night and you don't fix that problem with a couple tax cuts, closing a few women's reproductive clinics and shutting down PBS.

Republicans fought him tooth and nail every inch. They are owned by those billionaires who weren't ready to stop fucking the American public and they did all they could to stop him. They refused to let those tax cuts expire, they called his overhaul of health insurance "socialism" and spread fear about "death panels" and concentration camps that FEMA wasn't building.

They demonized gay community and convinced unemployed people that they should vote for a party that would cut off their unemployment insurance payments or else the gays would be able to get married. They called college students asking for birth control "sluts."

So... I'll sum up in point form.



1) The economic disaster is the fault of the Republican Party. It pre-dates the presidency of Barack Obama.

2) If you voted for George W Bush, this is also YOUR fault. You must own it. I didn't pee in your pants, either. That's all on you.

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

I'm dying to hear what the response is to this.

Prince Of Dorkness

EdsonNascimento wrote:

So, we should make liability insurance mandatory.

Wait... aren't you against Obamacare because it makes health insurance mandatory?

gimmesometruth27

Byrnzie wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Just one question - what is 4 years of blaming Bush if not scapegoating?

OK, I'll break it down for you.

"scapegoating" is when you fictionally blame someone for something they didn't to. Or you blame them for something you set them up to take the blame FOR.

If you were in a coma in 2008, I'll give you a short history lesson. George W Bush gave the top earners "tax cuts" as a present for the economic growth and prosperity brought in by the Clinton years. He said it was because they were "job creators," even though those jobs weren't created until Bill Clinton raised those taxes to the level they were at.

George W Bush then lied to the American people and the Senate and House about "weapons of mass destruction" and the "axis of evil" and tricked them into an un-winnable war with Iraq, started a necessary but poorly-executed and astronomically expensive war with Afghanistan and then rewarded his Vice President's old company with "no-bid" contracts that paid out absurd amounts of money and hired mercenaries to do the dirty work of exterminating civilians (so they could blame the atrocities on them and not the military).

Adding to that, he passed a prescription drugs bill he had no way to pay for, spent money on all sorts of money wasting bullshit and when he left office in January of 2009, we were losing 800,000 jobs PER MONTH and the US economy was so close to total collapse that we literally could have been the next Somalia. And I'm not really exaggerating there.

The catastrophic clusterfuck in which we found ourselves was deeper than any time since the 1930s. And because of many factors that didn't exist at the time... the result could have been MUCH worse than the Great Depression. Much worse.

The problem wasn't an easy fix. It was systematic down to the core of the banking industry, the housing industry and even the corrupt corporations that scammed the people out of trillions of dollars. Those have to be gutted and rebuilt.

That black hole would have taken years to climb out of no matter WHO was sitting in the oval office. And as luck would have it, we didn't have someone who was owned by the banks or the oil corporations or the Koch brothers... so he slowly started to rebuild our system. It's working but it's going to take a VERY long time to fix. You don't get that fucked up over night and you don't fix that problem with a couple tax cuts, closing a few women's reproductive clinics and shutting down PBS.

Republicans fought him tooth and nail every inch. They are owned by those billionaires who weren't ready to stop fucking the American public and they did all they could to stop him. They refused to let those tax cuts expire, they called his overhaul of health insurance "socialism" and spread fear about "death panels" and concentration camps that FEMA wasn't building.

They demonized gay community and convinced unemployed people that they should vote for a party that would cut off their unemployment insurance payments or else the gays would be able to get married. They called college students asking for birth control "sluts."

So... I'll sum up in point form.



1) The economic disaster is the fault of the Republican Party. It pre-dates the presidency of Barack Obama.

2) If you voted for George W Bush, this is also YOUR fault. You must own it. I didn't pee in your pants, either. That's all on you.

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

:clap:

*Put that in your pipe and smoke it*

it is about time someone broke it down like that!

that said, we gave obama the ball again, so it is on him to be a fighter and fix it and not be intimidated by the weakened gop. that party is splintered and it is time that obama and reid be the leaders we want them to be.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Just one question - what is 4 years of blaming Bush if not scapegoating?

OK, I'll break it down for you.

"scapegoating" is when you fictionally blame someone for something they didn't to. Or you blame them for something you set them up to take the blame FOR.

If you were in a coma in 2008, I'll give you a short history lesson. George W Bush gave the top earners "tax cuts" as a present for the economic growth and prosperity brought in by the Clinton years. He said it was because they were "job creators," even though those jobs weren't created until Bill Clinton raised those taxes to the level they were at.

George W Bush then lied to the American people and the Senate and House about "weapons of mass destruction" and the "axis of evil" and tricked them into an un-winnable war with Iraq, started a necessary but poorly-executed and astronomically expensive war with Afghanistan and then rewarded his Vice President's old company with "no-bid" contracts that paid out absurd amounts of money and hired mercenaries to do the dirty work of exterminating civilians (so they could blame the atrocities on them and not the military).

Adding to that, he passed a prescription drugs bill he had no way to pay for, spent money on all sorts of money wasting bullshit and when he left office in January of 2009, we were losing 800,000 jobs PER MONTH and the US economy was so close to total collapse that we literally could have been the next Somalia. And I'm not really exaggerating there.

The catastrophic clusterfuck in which we found ourselves was deeper than any time since the 1930s. And because of many factors that didn't exist at the time... the result could have been MUCH worse than the Great Depression. Much worse.

The problem wasn't an easy fix. It was systematic down to the core of the banking industry, the housing industry and even the corrupt corporations that scammed the people out of trillions of dollars. Those have to be gutted and rebuilt.

That black hole would have taken years to climb out of no matter WHO was sitting in the oval office. And as luck would have it, we didn't have someone who was owned by the banks or the oil corporations or the Koch brothers... so he slowly started to rebuild our system. It's working but it's going to take a VERY long time to fix. You don't get that fucked up over night and you don't fix that problem with a couple tax cuts, closing a few women's reproductive clinics and shutting down PBS.

Republicans fought him tooth and nail every inch. They are owned by those billionaires who weren't ready to stop fucking the American public and they did all they could to stop him. They refused to let those tax cuts expire, they called his overhaul of health insurance "socialism" and spread fear about "death panels" and concentration camps that FEMA wasn't building.

They demonized gay community and convinced unemployed people that they should vote for a party that would cut off their unemployment insurance payments or else the gays would be able to get married. They called college students asking for birth control "sluts."

So... I'll sum up in point form.



1) The economic disaster is the fault of the Republican Party. It pre-dates the presidency of Barack Obama.

2) If you voted for George W Bush, this is also YOUR fault. You must own it. I didn't pee in your pants, either. That's all on you.

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

I really want to hear a response to this charge. I bumped it thinking perhaps one was being formulated. It should be good!

EdsonNascimento

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

Well, you sure told me. Didn't you?

Why does everything come down to that for you? You paint everyone with such broad strokes, that it's actually funny to read what you write. Nobody has been mean to me. As I've stated previously - I personally have done better the last 4 years, but that's not the point. I am also pro-choice, fine with rights for all citizens, but I do believe in LEGAL immigration (though, I'm not AGAINST immigrants - the left does like to paint a picture.). You are a very angry man.

It's equally obvious you don't want to hear facts, but rather liberal talking points. Here's one fact I will leave you with:

The collapse was centered around the housing market bubble. This was created by the Clinton policy of everyone must own a house even if they couldn't afford it (And yes, Bush did nothing to abate this, so he is culpable as well).

Furthermore, if you want to believe 2008 was worse than 1980, there's no discussion to be had. One thing I'm fine with is letting Obama do what he does the next 4 years (not that I have any choice). Hopefully, he achieves what he laid out in the latest campaign - oops!!!

Thank you and good luck.

cincybearcat

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

OK, I'll break it down for you.

"scapegoating" is when you fictionally blame someone for something they didn't to. Or you blame them for something you set them up to take the blame FOR.

If you were in a coma in 2008, I'll give you a short history lesson. George W Bush gave the top earners "tax cuts" as a present for the economic growth and prosperity brought in by the Clinton years. He said it was because they were "job creators," even though those jobs weren't created until Bill Clinton raised those taxes to the level they were at.

George W Bush then lied to the American people and the Senate and House about "weapons of mass destruction" and the "axis of evil" and tricked them into an un-winnable war with Iraq, started a necessary but poorly-executed and astronomically expensive war with Afghanistan and then rewarded his Vice President's old company with "no-bid" contracts that paid out absurd amounts of money and hired mercenaries to do the dirty work of exterminating civilians (so they could blame the atrocities on them and not the military).

Adding to that, he passed a prescription drugs bill he had no way to pay for, spent money on all sorts of money wasting bullshit and when he left office in January of 2009, we were losing 800,000 jobs PER MONTH and the US economy was so close to total collapse that we literally could have been the next Somalia. And I'm not really exaggerating there.

The catastrophic clusterfuck in which we found ourselves was deeper than any time since the 1930s. And because of many factors that didn't exist at the time... the result could have been MUCH worse than the Great Depression. Much worse.

The problem wasn't an easy fix. It was systematic down to the core of the banking industry, the housing industry and even the corrupt corporations that scammed the people out of trillions of dollars. Those have to be gutted and rebuilt.

That black hole would have taken years to climb out of no matter WHO was sitting in the oval office. And as luck would have it, we didn't have someone who was owned by the banks or the oil corporations or the Koch brothers... so he slowly started to rebuild our system. It's working but it's going to take a VERY long time to fix. You don't get that fucked up over night and you don't fix that problem with a couple tax cuts, closing a few women's reproductive clinics and shutting down PBS.

Republicans fought him tooth and nail every inch. They are owned by those billionaires who weren't ready to stop fucking the American public and they did all they could to stop him. They refused to let those tax cuts expire, they called his overhaul of health insurance "socialism" and spread fear about "death panels" and concentration camps that FEMA wasn't building.

They demonized gay community and convinced unemployed people that they should vote for a party that would cut off their unemployment insurance payments or else the gays would be able to get married. They called college students asking for birth control "sluts."

So... I'll sum up in point form.



1) The economic disaster is the fault of the Republican Party. It pre-dates the presidency of Barack Obama.

2) If you voted for George W Bush, this is also YOUR fault. You must own it. I didn't pee in your pants, either. That's all on you.

3) How about you shut your pie hole and let president Obama continue to clean up the mess you made before you whine about how those mean old gays and immigrants and women who didn't want to give birth to their rapist's babies are being mean to you.

Not directed at me but I'll give it a go...

Scapegoating - certainly some truth to things being the fault of the previous administration. But the extreme to which people blame bush and all the conspiracy theories are just plain nuts.

"Economic prosperity brought in under Clinton" AND the republican congress. BUt, as I mentioned, the housing bubble and the Dot Com bubble (both burst with dramatic negative effects to be dealt with by other presidents) certainly played a part, no?

Now onto your points:

1) Slightly over simplified. And when I say slightly I mean ridiculously. Started with Clinton, GW screwed us with the wars... Lots of blame to go around, not just GW.

2) I voted for GW, and I agree some of this is my fault as well. Though, if we are honest, my guess is it wouldn't have been all rainbows and puppy dogs with the other guys. And, again, as I said, if you voted for CLinton, you may have actually helped start this mess. Well, likely not started as elements of it have been around awhile, but you certainly own a huge heaping teaspoon full as well. So, if you are ready to stop blaming others we can move on, because while understanding root cause is important, blaming is not.

3) Great point here. Didn't have anymore points huh?

Jason P

Everyone is already making excuses.

The dust hasn't even settled yet.