Serious question. How is Romney going to build an economy? Tax cuts for the rich that will be paid for by cuts to.....wait till I'm President and I will tell you.
That's good.
Serious question, I'm being serious - do you really think Obama vs. Romney matters? Why?
When push comes to shove - do you think either will do drastically different things from the opponent? If so, what?
Economically, probably not in any major way. But I am far from an economic expert, and I don't pretend to be.
So if neither is going to have a major difference economically? I should vote based on social issues and foreign policy, right?
Edit: And I am not saying I am voting stricly on social issues, but I do agree things will not be completely different economically under either, although I don't agree upper class tax cuts with the middle class likely paying for them is the way to go.
I'd sincerely argue they won't do anything different on social issues. I also don't think they will do anything drastically different economically - although I could see it being slight via taxes. Spending won't go down, most likely - so no real difference there. I think they both will be fairly aggressive with foreign policy.
Nah, I don't see a big difference. Honestly, it bugs me to see people divide the sides like this is life or death when in reality the same type of robots with almost identical programs (platforms) are under each uniform. They just have different colors on.
It's the pom-pom establishment at it's best. This place is getting very rah, rah lately. It's kinda vomit-worthy - considering at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. They both suck, really really bad.
Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?
No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.
How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.
More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.
Serious question. How is Romney going to build an economy? Tax cuts for the rich that will be paid for by cuts to.....wait till I'm President and I will tell you.
That's good.
I would hope it would be cross the board cuts, the same percentage for everything...
and a big one.
This is what Ron Paul's son eluded to I believe... whom I liked.
Then we must get a fairer tax system for all. Lower taxes on business, remove the inheritance
and death tax. With drastically less payroll tax paid by employer and employee
wages can go up and money can return to the economy.
It's clear we can not continue as we are. Our deficit is out of control and growing.
We must stop providing for our people instead get them to work.
And we must stop providing money to other countries... sorry we are worst than broke.
We are in a hole with very little light left.
Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?
No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.
It's with opportunity and education.
Boom. The rest of what you wrote is cliche and quite frankly, bullshit. And I don't mean that to be offensive.
Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?
No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.
How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.
More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.
That's funny... you say it's with opportunity and education, but then in the next paragraph you trash the government programs that help provide that.
And your rhetoric sounds good... until you realize there's not much behind it.
Take a single mother works part-time to take care of herself and her child while going to school... Maybe she gets some food stamps or her kid is in a head start program, or she gets grants for college. Your solution for her is to set goals, work harder, and then take away some of the support she gets from gov't programs and give the owner of the restaurant she works at a tax break? Then hope that other people step up and help while she works to her goal?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
not bullshit ... do you not hear the stories of people working hard?
and what does Boom have to do with this?
Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.
I think what blackredyellow posted is as spot on as it gets and said what I was trying to say much better.
Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?
No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.
How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.
More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.
That's funny... you say it's with opportunity and education, but then in the next paragraph you trash the government programs that help provide that.
And your rhetoric sounds good... until you realize there's not much behind it.
Take a single mother works part-time to take care of herself and her child while going to school... Maybe she gets some food stamps or her kid is in a head start program, or she gets grants for college. Your solution for her is to set goals, work harder, and then take away some of the support she gets from gov't programs and give the owner of the restaurant she works at a tax break? Then hope that other people step up and help while she works to her goal?
Why should the Federal government provide any of this?
Can the government even provide? Doesn't look like it can does it?
16 trillion in debt and growing :wtf:
Don't tax the waitresses tips. Don't tax that restaurant owner so he can pay his waitress more.
Put money back into their pockets.
Can she buy a computer, work full time and study on line with the extra money?
Reaching her goal in half the time...
where there is a will there is a way.
Let the schools provide for the children, the communities, the churches, the individual states.
The Feds are failing they are taxing but not providing because it is all on credit
and about to implode.
How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.
More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.
That's funny... you say it's with opportunity and education, but then in the next paragraph you trash the government programs that help provide that.
And your rhetoric sounds good... until you realize there's not much behind it.
Take a single mother works part-time to take care of herself and her child while going to school... Maybe she gets some food stamps or her kid is in a head start program, or she gets grants for college. Your solution for her is to set goals, work harder, and then take away some of the support she gets from gov't programs and give the owner of the restaurant she works at a tax break? Then hope that other people step up and help while she works to her goal?
Why should the Federal government provide any of this?
Can the government even provide? Doesn't look like it does it?
16 trillion in debt and growing :wtf:
Don't tax the waitresses tips. Don't tax that restaurant owner so he can pay his waitress more.
Put money back into their pockets.
Can she buy a computer, work full time and study on line with the extra money?
Reaching her goal in half the time...
where there is a will there is a way.
Let the schools provide for the children, the communities, the churches, the individual states.
The Feds are failing they are taxing but not providing because it is all on credit
and about to implode.
Where do the schools, communities and individual states get their money from? Many states are broke as it is, and depend on federal dollars to fill the gaps. If the federal government quits providing these services, the states and localities will have to raise their taxes through the roof to pay for services, so we'd likely be in the same boat.
Look, I'm not saying that federal programs couldn't run better, or that there doesn't need some reform, but the idea of just cutting spending across the board and cutting taxes will solve everything, is living in fantasy land.
Post edited by blackredyellow on
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.
It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.
It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.
It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.
It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
Sometimes. Has it been done? Sure. But as we have seen, more often than not, it doesn't. And I would argue the value of hard work will be instilled through education, something we don't provide to our poor.
I said hard work is important, but to say that all someone has to do is work hard and they'll be successful is just plain wrong.
And just to note, for someone who seems to know to know what everyone is thinking, you have a tough time understanding basic sentences. I said it is nonsense to think that all someone has to do is work hard and they will be fine.
Fuck, every fucking thread it's devils advocate. I swear, I could say the sky is blue and there would be an argument of some sort with twists and turns. God damn.
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.
Fuck, every fucking thread it's devils advocate. I swear, I could say the sky is blue and there would be an argument of some sort with twists and turns. God damn.
I have to say I agree with your points of view on this subject. Not that it matters but you're spot on.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.
It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.
It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
Sometimes. Has it been done? Sure. But as we have seen, more often than not, it doesn't. And I would argue the value of hard work will be instilled through education, something we don't provide to our poor.
I said hard work is important, but to say that all someone has to do is work hard and they'll be successful is just plain wrong.
And just to note, for someone who seems to know to know what everyone is thinking, you have a tough time understanding basic sentences. I said it is nonsense to think that all someone has to do is work hard and they will be fine.
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.
yes working hard as a millionaire is a lot different to working out on minimum wage with 2 or 3 jobs. a lot more satisfaction if you get something out of it. every seen death of a salesmen.. similar point.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Why should the Federal government provide any of this?
Can the government even provide? Doesn't look like it does it?
16 trillion in debt and growing :wtf:
Don't tax the waitresses tips. Don't tax that restaurant owner so he can pay his waitress more.
Put money back into their pockets.
Can she buy a computer, work full time and study on line with the extra money?
Reaching her goal in half the time...
where there is a will there is a way.
Let the schools provide for the children, the communities, the churches, the individual states.
The Feds are failing they are taxing but not providing because it is all on credit
and about to implode.
Where do the schools, communities and individual states get their money from? Many states are broke as it is, and depend on federal dollars to fill the gaps. If the federal government quits providing these services, the states and localities will have to raise their taxes through the roof to pay for services, so we'd likely be in the same boat.
Look, I'm not saying that federal programs couldn't run better, or that there doesn't need some reform, but the idea of just cutting spending across the board and cutting taxes will solve everything, is living in fantasy land.
Why are the States broke? Why is education suffering?
And why must they rely on the Federal Government who then requires
something of them?
The Federal government is failing at providing for the states.
Yes of course the states will raise taxes... as they should.
They should be independent of the Feds except for disaster relief,
compensation for terrorism costs, and interstate traffic.
With more money in everyone's pockets the state economies will improve
giving much more income to the states, in sales tax, business tax,
and property tax.
States should also be free to represent their citizens as they choose
not how the Federal government dictates.
The Federal government can not afford it's people, time to relieve them
of that duty and let the people take over again and take care of each other.
Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.
It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.
It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
Sometimes. Has it been done? Sure. But as we have seen, more often than not, it doesn't. And I would argue the value of hard work will be instilled through education, something we don't provide to our poor.
I said hard work is important, but to say that all someone has to do is work hard and they'll be successful is just plain wrong.
And just to note, for someone who seems to know to know what everyone is thinking, you have a tough time understanding basic sentences. I said it is nonsense to think that all someone has to do is work hard and they will be fine.
Sorry I guess I should have read between the lines you did not add ... will be fine in your first statement.
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.
yes working hard as a millionaire is a lot different to working out on minimum wage with 2 or 3 jobs. a lot more satisfaction if you get something out of it. every seen death of a salesmen.. similar point.
Do you think a millionaire is more rewarded for their hard work than an average hard working person?
We might have different ideas of what rewards are in life.
Success is not measured by the amount of money in the bank.
I bet that Mom knows this and is quite happy after all.
I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.
yes working hard as a millionaire is a lot different to working out on minimum wage with 2 or 3 jobs. a lot more satisfaction if you get something out of it. every seen death of a salesmen.. similar point.
Do you think a millionaire is more rewarded for their hard work than an average hard working person?
We might have different ideas of what rewards are in life.
Success is not measured by the amount of money in the bank.
I bet that Mom knows this and is quite happy after all.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I don't think I could disagree with this more. Sure it is to us. You are not born with values though, you learn them. And for our uneducated poor, many of them have never seen someone work hard, they have never met someone in their personal lives who has an education nor seen what hard work can get them. They grow up knowing nothing aside from what they are taught, which is fucking nothing. They are born into poverty, into drug addiction, into rat infested slums with no opportunity at all. No shot in life what so ever. And we expect them to just pick them selves up and work hard. Come on.
How the hell do we expect the cycle of poverty to change if we can't offer a decent education to our poor? How do we expect people to value education and hard work if they have never seen anyone in their life work hard and get anywhere?
There is no industry in our cities anymore. NONE. The days of working class in urban factories is gone. We offer our poor NOTHING. No shot at what was historically their only way out of poverty, no industrial labor and no educational opportunities.
It's so fucking condescening to tell someone to just work hard. Go visit North Philly and tell them to just work hard. What a fucking crock of shit.
And just to add. This is not me disagreeing that hard work and personal responsibility are the most important aspect to our country. They clearly are but you don't just pop out of the womb and say, let's go to work.
Then we must get a fairer tax system for all. Lower taxes on business, remove the inheritance
and death tax. With drastically less payroll tax paid by employer and employee
wages can go up and money can return to the economy.
You see? This is where you're missing others' point. I agree with you.
But they basically do not trust the individual AT ALL. They believe the government can do a better job of aportioning money.
They do not believe that if you put more money in a business owner's pocket that they will pass it on to their employees. You do because YOU ARE a business owner and know what you would do. But, they beg to differ and insist your money must be taken from you and given to someone who is not as fortunate (whatever that means) as you. The government will ensure it gets spread fairly. You will not. (Again, whatever fair means).
So, tax, tax, tax. We don't trust the individual business owner. We don't trust the individual to be able to pull themselves up. We trust the gov't.
That's basically what your "opponents" here are trying to get through to you. I agree with you. What they are missing is even if you don't hire more workers or raise wages with your money, you'll do SOMETHING with it. So, as long as you're not saving 100% of of it or sending it off shore (as we all know how rich the business owner making $250K is :roll: ), you are putting SOMETHING back into the economy and at least creating PART of a job.
But, once again - no. You don't know what to do with your money, so we must take it and tell you what to do with it because the government that has spent more money than it has does. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
generally the free market idea which is romney's center piece rewards people and lauds therm for making money and the people that don't are the losers.. the ones who make less money or the poor have a negative stigma as lazy or dependent, no credibility and less say on how things are run in the world.. a person who works 3 jobs and still barely makes is too busy and stressed to get any rewards.. on the other hand a millionaire may be busy but in a different less stressed way as they know their family will eat that night.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
generally the free market idea which is romney's center piece rewards people and lauds therm for making money and the people that don't are the losers.. the ones who make less money or the poor have a negative stigma as lazy or dependent, no credibility and less say on how things are run in the world.. a person who works 3 jobs and still barely makes is too busy and stressed to get any rewards.. on the other hand a millionaire may be busy but in a different less stressed way as they know their family will eat that night.
generally the free market idea which is romney's center piece rewards people and lauds therm for making money and the people that don't are the losers.. the ones who make less money or the poor have a negative stigma as lazy or dependent, no credibility and less say on how things are run in the world.. a person who works 3 jobs and still barely makes is too busy and stressed to get any rewards.. on the other hand a millionaire may be busy but in a different less stressed way as they know their family will eat that night.
generally the free market idea which is romney's center piece rewards people and lauds therm for making money and the people that don't are the losers.. the ones who make less money or the poor have a negative stigma as lazy or dependent, no credibility and less say on how things are run in the world.. a person who works 3 jobs and still barely makes is too busy and stressed to get any rewards.. on the other hand a millionaire may be busy but in a different less stressed way as they know their family will eat that night.
So you don't think there are business owners that make a million that worry about their company b/c they are now not only supporting their family, they are supporting every family of every employee? And that that stress is 100 times worse than the guy who does his job, gets decent pay, goes home and enjoys his life? Why is everything looked at in such extremes?
You folks really do have a negative view on humans. And an even worse view on those that can actually achieve that level of success (I know - they all had some sort of unfair advantage and we should take, take, take). They weren't born smart and made good decisions. They were just luckier than the next guy. Either that or we should not reward the person that is smart and makes good decisions. We should reward the ones that make poor decisions. That's how progress is done. The guy that invented the square wheel should have been rewarded the same as the guy that made it round.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
generally the free market idea which is romney's center piece rewards people and lauds therm for making money and the people that don't are the losers.. the ones who make less money or the poor have a negative stigma as lazy or dependent, no credibility and less say on how things are run in the world.. a person who works 3 jobs and still barely makes is too busy and stressed to get any rewards.. on the other hand a millionaire may be busy but in a different less stressed way as they know their family will eat that night.
So you don't think there are business owners that make a million that worry about their company b/c they are now not only supporting their family, they are supporting every family of every employee? And that that stress is 100 times worse than the guy who does his job, gets decent pay, goes home and enjoys his life? Why is everything looked at in such extremes?
You folks really do have a negative view on humans. And an even worse view on those that can actually achieve that level of success (I know - they all had some sort of unfair advantage and we should take, take, take). They weren't born smart and made good decisions. They were just luckier than the next guy. Either that or we should not reward the person that is smart and makes good decisions. We should reward the ones that make poor decisions. That's how progress is done. The guy that invented the square wheel should have been rewarded the same as the guy that made it round.
I'm not saying people who make a lot of money don't have issues but surely someone who has 3 jobs on the and on the verge of getting kicked out of the rental.. or living in their car has a lot more?
I'm not saying at all that I support communism where everyone is equal sure I support the right for anyone to go out and make anything of themselves but it's a rigged system.. not everyone can just go out and make a million dollars and that's not right to me anyhow.. especially when the millionaires blame the poor for being where they are.. that's not right at all.
their will always be people on the bottom but the idea of how to help these people has to change.
Post edited by Zoso on
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Comments
I'd sincerely argue they won't do anything different on social issues. I also don't think they will do anything drastically different economically - although I could see it being slight via taxes. Spending won't go down, most likely - so no real difference there. I think they both will be fairly aggressive with foreign policy.
Nah, I don't see a big difference. Honestly, it bugs me to see people divide the sides like this is life or death when in reality the same type of robots with almost identical programs (platforms) are under each uniform. They just have different colors on.
It's the pom-pom establishment at it's best. This place is getting very rah, rah lately. It's kinda vomit-worthy - considering at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. They both suck, really really bad.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.
More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.
and a big one.
This is what Ron Paul's son eluded to I believe... whom I liked.
Then we must get a fairer tax system for all. Lower taxes on business, remove the inheritance
and death tax. With drastically less payroll tax paid by employer and employee
wages can go up and money can return to the economy.
It's clear we can not continue as we are. Our deficit is out of control and growing.
We must stop providing for our people instead get them to work.
And we must stop providing money to other countries... sorry we are worst than broke.
We are in a hole with very little light left.
Boom. The rest of what you wrote is cliche and quite frankly, bullshit. And I don't mean that to be offensive.
That's funny... you say it's with opportunity and education, but then in the next paragraph you trash the government programs that help provide that.
And your rhetoric sounds good... until you realize there's not much behind it.
Take a single mother works part-time to take care of herself and her child while going to school... Maybe she gets some food stamps or her kid is in a head start program, or she gets grants for college. Your solution for her is to set goals, work harder, and then take away some of the support she gets from gov't programs and give the owner of the restaurant she works at a tax break? Then hope that other people step up and help while she works to her goal?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
not bullshit ... do you not hear the stories of people working hard?
and what does Boom have to do with this?
Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.
I think what blackredyellow posted is as spot on as it gets and said what I was trying to say much better.
Can the government even provide? Doesn't look like it can does it?
16 trillion in debt and growing :wtf:
Don't tax the waitresses tips. Don't tax that restaurant owner so he can pay his waitress more.
Put money back into their pockets.
Can she buy a computer, work full time and study on line with the extra money?
Reaching her goal in half the time...
where there is a will there is a way.
Let the schools provide for the children, the communities, the churches, the individual states.
The Feds are failing they are taxing but not providing because it is all on credit
and about to implode.
Where do the schools, communities and individual states get their money from? Many states are broke as it is, and depend on federal dollars to fill the gaps. If the federal government quits providing these services, the states and localities will have to raise their taxes through the roof to pay for services, so we'd likely be in the same boat.
Look, I'm not saying that federal programs couldn't run better, or that there doesn't need some reform, but the idea of just cutting spending across the board and cutting taxes will solve everything, is living in fantasy land.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.
It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.
Sometimes. Has it been done? Sure. But as we have seen, more often than not, it doesn't. And I would argue the value of hard work will be instilled through education, something we don't provide to our poor.
I said hard work is important, but to say that all someone has to do is work hard and they'll be successful is just plain wrong.
And just to note, for someone who seems to know to know what everyone is thinking, you have a tough time understanding basic sentences. I said it is nonsense to think that all someone has to do is work hard and they will be fine.
I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.
I have to say I agree with your points of view on this subject. Not that it matters but you're spot on.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
You two should get a room,....
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yes working hard as a millionaire is a lot different to working out on minimum wage with 2 or 3 jobs. a lot more satisfaction if you get something out of it. every seen death of a salesmen.. similar point.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
And why must they rely on the Federal Government who then requires
something of them?
The Federal government is failing at providing for the states.
Yes of course the states will raise taxes... as they should.
They should be independent of the Feds except for disaster relief,
compensation for terrorism costs, and interstate traffic.
With more money in everyone's pockets the state economies will improve
giving much more income to the states, in sales tax, business tax,
and property tax.
States should also be free to represent their citizens as they choose
not how the Federal government dictates.
The Federal government can not afford it's people, time to relieve them
of that duty and let the people take over again and take care of each other.
will be fine in your first statement.
The value of hard work is common sense really
We might have different ideas of what rewards are in life.
Success is not measured by the amount of money in the bank.
I bet that Mom knows this and is quite happy after all.
boogie on
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I don't think I could disagree with this more. Sure it is to us. You are not born with values though, you learn them. And for our uneducated poor, many of them have never seen someone work hard, they have never met someone in their personal lives who has an education nor seen what hard work can get them. They grow up knowing nothing aside from what they are taught, which is fucking nothing. They are born into poverty, into drug addiction, into rat infested slums with no opportunity at all. No shot in life what so ever. And we expect them to just pick them selves up and work hard. Come on.
How the hell do we expect the cycle of poverty to change if we can't offer a decent education to our poor? How do we expect people to value education and hard work if they have never seen anyone in their life work hard and get anywhere?
There is no industry in our cities anymore. NONE. The days of working class in urban factories is gone. We offer our poor NOTHING. No shot at what was historically their only way out of poverty, no industrial labor and no educational opportunities.
It's so fucking condescening to tell someone to just work hard. Go visit North Philly and tell them to just work hard. What a fucking crock of shit.
And just to add. This is not me disagreeing that hard work and personal responsibility are the most important aspect to our country. They clearly are but you don't just pop out of the womb and say, let's go to work.
You see? This is where you're missing others' point. I agree with you.
But they basically do not trust the individual AT ALL. They believe the government can do a better job of aportioning money.
They do not believe that if you put more money in a business owner's pocket that they will pass it on to their employees. You do because YOU ARE a business owner and know what you would do. But, they beg to differ and insist your money must be taken from you and given to someone who is not as fortunate (whatever that means) as you. The government will ensure it gets spread fairly. You will not. (Again, whatever fair means).
So, tax, tax, tax. We don't trust the individual business owner. We don't trust the individual to be able to pull themselves up. We trust the gov't.
That's basically what your "opponents" here are trying to get through to you. I agree with you. What they are missing is even if you don't hire more workers or raise wages with your money, you'll do SOMETHING with it. So, as long as you're not saving 100% of of it or sending it off shore (as we all know how rich the business owner making $250K is :roll: ), you are putting SOMETHING back into the economy and at least creating PART of a job.
But, once again - no. You don't know what to do with your money, so we must take it and tell you what to do with it because the government that has spent more money than it has does. :roll: :roll: :roll:
generally the free market idea which is romney's center piece rewards people and lauds therm for making money and the people that don't are the losers.. the ones who make less money or the poor have a negative stigma as lazy or dependent, no credibility and less say on how things are run in the world.. a person who works 3 jobs and still barely makes is too busy and stressed to get any rewards.. on the other hand a millionaire may be busy but in a different less stressed way as they know their family will eat that night.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Romney's ideas aren't free market, bro.
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Agreed
So you don't think there are business owners that make a million that worry about their company b/c they are now not only supporting their family, they are supporting every family of every employee? And that that stress is 100 times worse than the guy who does his job, gets decent pay, goes home and enjoys his life? Why is everything looked at in such extremes?
You folks really do have a negative view on humans. And an even worse view on those that can actually achieve that level of success (I know - they all had some sort of unfair advantage and we should take, take, take). They weren't born smart and made good decisions. They were just luckier than the next guy. Either that or we should not reward the person that is smart and makes good decisions. We should reward the ones that make poor decisions. That's how progress is done. The guy that invented the square wheel should have been rewarded the same as the guy that made it round.
being serious.. what is his main economic idea in that case?
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I'm not saying people who make a lot of money don't have issues but surely someone who has 3 jobs on the and on the verge of getting kicked out of the rental.. or living in their car has a lot more?
I'm not saying at all that I support communism where everyone is equal sure I support the right for anyone to go out and make anything of themselves but it's a rigged system.. not everyone can just go out and make a million dollars and that's not right to me anyhow.. especially when the millionaires blame the poor for being where they are.. that's not right at all.
their will always be people on the bottom but the idea of how to help these people has to change.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I'd say his ideas are slightly to the right of Obama's. That's about it. Don't need to rehash all of his plans, or lack thereof.
They aren't free market though. Look up the definition, if you'd like. Mitt Romney is not a free-market guy. Not saying Obama is either - for sure.
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