Romney to pick Paul Ryan for VP

polaris_x

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Ryan doesn't change anything for those who are over 55 (within 10 years of Medicare eligibility). No cuts until ten years from now.

i wasn't just referring to medicare ...

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

Whether you agree with Ryan's budget plan or not ... at least he actually put together a budget plan. How many of our 533 elected officials can make such a claim?

The GOP can't attack Obama's specific budget plan because it doesn't exist. Savvy move by Obama.

well ... it goes back to what i was saying ... the political discourse is a joke ... everything is smoke and mirrors and the only consistency is fraud ...

ComeToTX

Jason P wrote:

Whether you agree with Ryan's budget plan or not ... at least he actually put together a budget plan. How many of our 533 elected officials can make such a claim?

The GOP can't attack Obama's specific budget plan because it doesn't exist. Savvy move by Obama.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview

Johnny Abruzzo

ComeToTX wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Whether you agree with Ryan's budget plan or not ... at least he actually put together a budget plan. How many of our 533 elected officials can make such a claim?

The GOP can't attack Obama's specific budget plan because it doesn't exist. Savvy move by Obama.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview

Looks like a budget. Smells like a budget.

Jason P

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Whether you agree with Ryan's budget plan or not ... at least he actually put together a budget plan. How many of our 533 elected officials can make such a claim?

The GOP can't attack Obama's specific budget plan because it doesn't exist. Savvy move by Obama.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview

Looks like a budget. Smells like a budget.

I stand corrected. :oops:

Indifference

ComeToTX wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Whether you agree with Ryan's budget plan or not ... at least he actually put together a budget plan. How many of our 533 elected officials can make such a claim?

The GOP can't attack Obama's specific budget plan because it doesn't exist. Savvy move by Obama.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview

Is that the budget the senate voted down 99-0?

Johnny Abruzzo

Jason P wrote:

I stand corrected. :oops:

Perhaps you meant that the Senate has not put forth a budget, which would be true.

Everything about this Congress (both sides) is horrible:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/13/13-reasons-why-this-is-the-worst-congress-ever/

Jason P

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I stand corrected. :oops:

Perhaps you meant that the Senate has not put forth a budget, which would be true.

Oh yeah ... the senate never passed it ... :think: ...that's what I meant all along

Yeah! That's the ticket! :P

Johnny Abruzzo

Indifference wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Whether you agree with Ryan's budget plan or not ... at least he actually put together a budget plan. How many of our 533 elected officials can make such a claim?

The GOP can't attack Obama's specific budget plan because it doesn't exist. Savvy move by Obama.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview

Is that the budget the senate voted down 99-0?

Sometimes I can't keep track of this shit - maybe. They did put out a budget though. I think they have to (but they Senate "has to" as well :? ).

Johnny Abruzzo

Jason P wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I stand corrected. :oops:

Perhaps you meant that the Senate has not put forth a budget, which would be true.

Oh yeah ... the senate never passed it ... :think: ...that's what I meant all along

Yeah! That's the ticket! :P

I'm here to help.

The Fixer

RW81233 wrote:

For all this talk of free handouts and people leeching off the system and paying nothing back i call bullshit. I'm the oldest of 8. When it was just my two sisters and myself my mother stayed at home with us and my dad got laid off from a Union job (yeah that shit is possible despite what republicans might have you believe). So we had nothing, my dad worked on a neighbors farm to keep paying off our mortgage and we went on welfare. He would bounce back and forth at the Union job, until the company decided to outsource its labor effectively destroying its local labor force. He eventually landed a non-union job 2 hours south in a more expensive area to live. By that point there were 6 kids and my 2 parents living in a 2 bedroom 1 bath rental, we were on WiC, got free and reduced lunches, (though my parents refused to stay on food stamps after he got his job my mom started daycare for teachers to make ends meet on the food front), and got reduction on tuition to college. Just to let you know how glorious this leaching felt, we would often wear hand-me-downs from other kids at our high school (or for my younger sibs from older sibs) so that everyone knew we were relatively poor. Did we let that hold us down? Fuck no. Did it really fucking suck not only knowing that other people had it much more comfortable but also that they knew we were poor? Yes.

Regardless, for the oldest 6, 4 of us went to community college, and went on to earn our 2 and 4 year degrees. The other two went straight to state school and graduated in 4 years. 3 of us have gone on to earn our Masters, and I have a PhD. None of this would have happened without those government handouts some of you are bitching about. Where would we be without it? I don't even want to know, but we are all able to provide things for our children that our parents (leaches to some of you here) couldn't provide to us financially - even though they tried their best. Did some people at the welfare and wic office take from the system and give nothing back? Probably, but the type of living someone in that situation is going through for "free" isn't some fucking paradise island. All I know is that without welfare I probably wouldn't be here and I'll be damed if I take that option away from another human being because it's not my problem to worry about.

that's awesome that you were able to overcome your situation and better yourself. I wish more people would take this course of action. Unfortunately I think you are an exception to the rule.

The only kids I feel the responsibility to send to college are my own. The sense of entitlement in this country is deplorable. Is it really asking too much to take care of yourself??

MookiesLaw

The craziness towards Obama is greater than in 2008, the insanity towards Mitt is perhaps a few notches under what was there for Palin but not by much, and now Ryan's VP nod seems to be getting prepped to have Palin level of absurdity. 2008 with McCain, it was at least tampered down a bit on him. There's only so much you could go stupid about with him. And Biden's just....Biden. He's like the crazy uncle you laugh at when he does something dumb but everyone forgets about immediately after. It just seems this year its to a level beyond what it was in the past.

Once the debates start and we have the mad dash to the actual election is when things might actually get interesting from an observer stand point. The conversation could evolve to actual issues rather than Romney being Dr. Mahnattan or Obama's school records.

At this point Mickey Mouse could actually get elected because let's be honest here, no matter who gets the seat, not much is going to change. Get the season over with and we can start ratcheting down to normal levels of political stupidity.

usamamasan1

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I'm here to help.

Me too.

Go Beavers

The Fixer wrote:

that's awesome that you were able to overcome your situation and better yourself. I wish more people would take this course of action. Unfortunately I think you are an exception to the rule.

The only kids I feel the responsibility to send to college are my own. The sense of entitlement in this country is deplorable. Is it really asking too much to take care of yourself??

The actual rule is that the majority of people on public assistance are so in the short term, not the long term.

RW81233

The Fixer wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

For all this talk of free handouts and people leeching off the system and paying nothing back i call bullshit. I'm the oldest of 8. When it was just my two sisters and myself my mother stayed at home with us and my dad got laid off from a Union job (yeah that shit is possible despite what republicans might have you believe). So we had nothing, my dad worked on a neighbors farm to keep paying off our mortgage and we went on welfare. He would bounce back and forth at the Union job, until the company decided to outsource its labor effectively destroying its local labor force. He eventually landed a non-union job 2 hours south in a more expensive area to live. By that point there were 6 kids and my 2 parents living in a 2 bedroom 1 bath rental, we were on WiC, got free and reduced lunches, (though my parents refused to stay on food stamps after he got his job my mom started daycare for teachers to make ends meet on the food front), and got reduction on tuition to college. Just to let you know how glorious this leaching felt, we would often wear hand-me-downs from other kids at our high school (or for my younger sibs from older sibs) so that everyone knew we were relatively poor. Did we let that hold us down? Fuck no. Did it really fucking suck not only knowing that other people had it much more comfortable but also that they knew we were poor? Yes.

Regardless, for the oldest 6, 4 of us went to community college, and went on to earn our 2 and 4 year degrees. The other two went straight to state school and graduated in 4 years. 3 of us have gone on to earn our Masters, and I have a PhD. None of this would have happened without those government handouts some of you are bitching about. Where would we be without it? I don't even want to know, but we are all able to provide things for our children that our parents (leaches to some of you here) couldn't provide to us financially - even though they tried their best. Did some people at the welfare and wic office take from the system and give nothing back? Probably, but the type of living someone in that situation is going through for "free" isn't some fucking paradise island. All I know is that without welfare I probably wouldn't be here and I'll be damed if I take that option away from another human being because it's not my problem to worry about.

that's awesome that you were able to overcome your situation and better yourself. I wish more people would take this course of action. Unfortunately I think you are an exception to the rule.

The only kids I feel the responsibility to send to college are my own. The sense of entitlement in this country is deplorable. Is it really asking too much to take care of yourself??

as beaver pointed out few people stay on assistance for a long time. further those that do don't really often get the "good life" of free living that often gets portrayed. for those that do it's certainly frustrating and deplorable. regardless fixer you are posing a very philosophical argument here, and not one without merit. to me, if we are to be the greatest country WE can be then it's on all of us to help make it happen. i personally don't believe that my siblings, my parents (my dad now gets paid in the upper 70s with the 2 little ones enjoying things we never dreamed of), and myself made it where we got without others help/luck/whatever plus hard work. our taxes, and government (as inefficient as it can be) provides safety, roads, schooling and so on that were designed to do that. could it do better sure. am i sad that i get taxed to help others get there not at all. personally, i'd be down with your theory and full free markets if and only if every single person started at 0. in this dream scenario my parents and their financial situation would have no bearing on who i became because no parent would be allowed to help their child go to a better school, get better things, whatever through money. we would test every child every so often and they would get ranked and go to schools based on their schools. that way paris hilton doesnt get to skate through life on her name, she has to literally earn every step of the way. if i am to understand your scenario correctly then we would all be guided by economics which by default gives everyone an unequal playing field to fight through life on. if we do that then we don't allow the most talented, bright, hardest working individuals to rise to the top naturally. further i don't believe that any free market could every be totally free outside of social contexts deciding what is worth more or less than someone else. put differently my son and next child will have advantages that they didn't earn at all. colin+ gets the benefit of good schooling (free college if i don't get fired) and a comfortable way to move forward through his life that i never got. he+ will have so many things helping him that they don't deserve and they will know that from a young age. that's my way of thinking and it could be wrong.

Byrnzie

The Fixer wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

There have been many times I've given things of mine to people I thought needed them more. Maybe that makes me weak or stupid. Or just someone who realizes that sometimes we all need help.

I commend you for doing good deeds. My problem with the Democratic party's line of thinking regarding handouts is that I don't like being told what to do. I especially don't like being told how I have to spend my money. So I have a difficult time backing a candidate who forces me to contribute tax dollars to federal programs that 'help' the unfortunate. If I want to help these types of people I should have the option of donating my time or money to their respective charity. My belief is that I should take care of me and my family first...everyone else is a distant second.

The older I get the more these handouts bother me.

And how do you feel about your tax dollars paying for criminal wars of occupation, and for $4 Billion of American tax dollars being used as military aid to Israel every year?

Or do you only have a problem with the % of your tax money that goes towards helping the poor and unfortunate in America?

Byrnzie

inlet13 wrote:

Tossing money to the government to solve problems rarely solves anything. In fact, many times it creates additional problems.

So you think the government should be severely reduced so that we end up in a situation where Capitalism and privilege are given complete freedom to run amok, and everyone just fends for themselves in a dog-eat-dog World, with no regulations, and no accountability? Just let the mega-rich cream away all the wealth and let everyone else sink to the bottom. Fuck welfare, fuck medical aid, and fuck all public services, right?

Though just out of curiosity, where would you be sitting in this scheme of things if it came to pass? Would you benefit from such reckless, uninhibited greed and anarchy, or would you sink with the 99% of people? Because unless you are one of the mega-rich then I fail to see your motivation here.

pandora

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

pandora wrote:

As you know Soc Security covers people of all ages not just our elderly.
I wonder what the stats are on that?

Maybe you could help her...

Obviously I would try to help her if this came to pass (although even Ryan exempts those currently over 55 from his voucher program).

I read the new proposal of 2012 gives vouchers to seniors on the premium support plan ...
the most recent written by Wyden/Ryan ...

The Ryan-Wyden plan is the latest twist on an idea called that wonks call “premium support.” Today, most seniors enroll in the traditional government insurance program. Those who want other options are free to shop around for alternatives through what’s known as the “Medicare Advantage” program, in which private insurers make available regulated insurance policies. Under a premium support system, all seniors would shop around. The government would simply issue every person over 65 a voucher (at least in the figurative sense). In most schemes, seniors would pay extra for joining plans that cost more than the vouchers and receive rebates for joining plans that cost less than the vouchers.

Many seniors coming up in the next 30 years will have retirement plans in place
and long term care insurance, better prepared.
This will help with medical costs.
And the poor of any age should be taken care of by a caring society,
I think most feel this way.

Godfather.

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Tossing money to the government to solve problems rarely solves anything. In fact, many times it creates additional problems.

So you think the government should be severely reduced so that we end up in a situation where Capitalism and privilege are given complete freedom to run amok, and everyone just fends for themselves in a dog-eat-dog World, with no regulations, and no accountability? Just let the mega-rich cream away all the wealth and let everyone else sink to the bottom. Fuck welfare, fuck medical aid, and fuck all public services, right?

Though just out of curiosity, where would you be sitting in this scheme of things if it came to pass? Would you benefit from such reckless, uninhibited greed and anarchy, or would you sink with the 99% of people? Because unless you are one of the mega-rich then I fail to see your motivation here.

always adding a twist or words to someone elses statement...you my friend are the hidden fan of FOXNEWS

Godfather.

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Tossing money to the government to solve problems rarely solves anything. In fact, many times it creates additional problems.

So you think the government should be severely reduced so that we end up in a situation where Capitalism and privilege are given complete freedom to run amok, and everyone just fends for themselves in a dog-eat-dog World, with no regulations, and no accountability? Just let the mega-rich cream away all the wealth and let everyone else sink to the bottom. Fuck welfare, fuck medical aid, and fuck all public services, right?

Though just out of curiosity, where would you be sitting in this scheme of things if it came to pass? Would you benefit from such reckless, uninhibited greed and anarchy, or would you sink with the 99% of people? Because unless you are one of the mega-rich then I fail to see your motivation here.

always adding a twist or words to someone elses statement...you my friend are the hidden fan of FOXNEWS

Godfather.

Not twisting anyone's words, just drawing out the logical conclusions to the above train of thought. Isn't that what the Teapartiers keep harping on about? Reducing the power of government, and letting money and big business rule the roost?