or the legal documentation/recoginiton that carries with it certain rights and priviledges (tax issues, mwdical decisions, etc.)
I would like to know what the divorce rate of religious, christian affiliated people are and have those on their 2nd 3rd 4th marriages tell me how hallowed and valued the instituion of marriage is.
Maybe what they are really afraid of is being shown what the commitment really means?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Probably been mentioned a quarter-trillion times, but would you be against gays receiving all benefits of a hetero married couple, yet calling it a something different... perhaps, a civil union or something?
Basically, I question - is it really all about "rights"? Or is about a group trying to wedge society (via government) into condoning a way of life that was previously shunned? Because if it was just about rights, the word marriage would be saved (for the people who think that matters) and I think the gay rights crowd would have a lot more support - so they would get all rights desired. Compromise is tough... "this day and age".
Easiest answer, however, is to get government out of marriage all together. I mean if it is a "word" issue, it comes down to what people "believe" that word means... and with "marriage" this mixes faith in with government. The worst part is we have government legislating definitions which are outside of it's scope. This would be no issue if churches and spiritual bodies would be the preeminent "marriage" institutions, not government.
Someone gets it...Thank YOU!
honestly - i would say it would be up to the lgbt community to decide that ... i don't believe that marriage is a religious term and even if it was ... it definitely isn't catholic term (there are some christian faiths that support gay marriage) ...
if the lgbt community said - we will accept civil unions and no longer feel like the imposition of these groups to deny me my rights are there ... then i support it and be done with it ... but until then - i think that they have every reason to fight this ...
as for the separation of church and state ... apparently easier said than done ...
That doesn't make sense. You think this community doesn't have "civil rights", but you can't decide how exactly to get them those "rights"? You have to go to them and ask them "if we get you every right that married heterosexual couples have, but leave out the word marriage, is that enough to satisfy your rights"? Seriously? You can't know at the outset? I think you do know, you just don't want to say it.
So, I'll say it. You know, in the end, it's about the word. Because they can get those equal rights if they forfeited the word. But, why does this word even matter? Under the example I provided of a civil union (with equal legal rights to a married couple) you get them all the rights under the law except they drop the word as a concession... why does the word matter "to them"? We know why it matters to the Christians who are upset about it - it's religious to them, it's part of their faith. That definition is part of their religion and it's definition has fit for 1000s of years. So, why does it matter to the gay and lesbian community to get included? They've never had it in the past. Why do they need that word now?
It's ridiculous. This is not a battle to get equal "rights".... It's an attempt to force an entire society to condone a type of relationship. That's what I don't get. If it was about money or law, I get that. But, forcing viewpoints on right and wrong? That will never happen. Sects of people trying to force government to control it's people's beliefs on right and wrong. Government can't control people's beliefs no matter how hard they try. Totalitarianism... never really works.
I don't know why I even posted in here. This issue is so retarded. Give them the legal and monetary rights, concede the word marriage. Then the problems over. Everyone's happy.
Or, better yet, just get government out of marriage for heterosexuals. Then, bing, bang, boom... problem solved. Government should never be involved in these types of institutions. There's no point.
Someone gets it! Thank You!
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I haven't actually had time to read this thread, so maybe this has already been covered, but I have three things to say about the issue:
1. I love(d) Chick-fil-A. I think I might have been its biggest fan. When they closed down the only Chick-fil-A in my town several years ago, I had my radio DJ sister start a whole campaign to bring them back. They recently finally opened one by my house and I couldn't have been more excited. Their food is fucking delicious!
2. I keep hearing people say that the owner is just one guy who just voiced his opinion and we shouldn't fault Chick-fil-A for that. So I did a little bit of research into that. Turns out that's not true. He not only voiced his opinion, but he financially supported groups that work to encourage the legal system to deny civil rights to a whole group of people. And, more importantly, it wasn't just the actions/opinion/money of one random guy; it was actually the Chick-fil-A corporation that donated millions of dollars to these groups.
3. I'm so sick of hearing people say that boycotting Chick-fil-A is somehow a violation - or at least attempted stifling - of free speech. Boycotting IS free speech. People just throw "free speech" around all the time without a care in the world about what it means - just to get people all riled up. No one is oppressing anyone's free speech here. Please move along to a more thoughtful and accurate argument.
Like the word bigot and hater
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I knew when unsung & inlet13 got involved in this thread it was SERIOUS!
Kidding aside, and i respect both those 10c's for their depth & rationality.
This is more than a simple issue of freedom of speech VS freedom of consumerism.
Most of the posts have been representative of this fact, don't dumb it down like our GOP/DEM politico numskulls.
San Diego Sports Arena - Oct 25, 2000 MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006 Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006 New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010 Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011 Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012 EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012 Dallas-November 2013 OKC-November 2013 ACL 2-October 2014 Fenway Night 1, August 2016 Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018 Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023 Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023 Austin, Night 1 September 2023 Austin, Night 2 September 2023
I would guess if i looked up every corporation that i give my money to that i'd find stuff that i disagree with. Chick-Fil-A is no different. I disagree with almost all of their views on gays. However, their restaurants in my city treat you like you're at a 5 star hotel. The kids working there are extremely polite, it's always clean, and they give tons of cash/food to every school in the district every year. The results of a good local franchise owner? Probably so. But I have no problems giving that guy my money if i'm going to get fast food.
If people want to stage a "kiss-in" tomorrow they'll probably be offered free drinks or coupons afterwards from a lot of Chick-fil-A's. I have no problems at all with their nativity scenes and closing on Sundays, etc. I actually like that. I'm so tired of "Happy Holidays" because somehow Merry Christmas became so offensive, etc.. Their gay views are the first thing i've disagreed with. Other than that GREAT restaurant. Maybe Chick-fil-A should keep their views on controversial topics to themselves and maybe people should stop getting offended at every opinion. Then we could all enjoy waffle fries and chicken breakfast burritos.
PS..anyone read any In-N-Out burger/fry wrappers lately?? Hopefully the whiners don't target them next because they're not Politically Correct either.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
3. I'm so sick of hearing people say that boycotting Chick-fil-A is somehow a violation - or at least attempted stifling - of free speech. Boycotting IS free speech. People just throw "free speech" around all the time without a care in the world about what it means - just to get people all riled up. No one is oppressing anyone's free speech here. Please move along to a more thoughtful and accurate argument.
With you on this, Underscore .
I totally support a free market - where people SHOULD speak their mind (whether by voice or wallet or what have you), no matter whether their views jive with mine. It's up to each of us to give them credence or not, then take action if we so choose, or not.
The people protesting (I still don't get PETA being there :P ) are as entitled to do their thing as are those partaking of the fil-A's - which I've never tried, by the way.
I don't endorse anyone telling someone else how to live their lives, where to eat, where not to eat. And of course it goes both ways (and again in caps - SHOULD go both ways!).
Also want to say that I really appreciate the thoughtful comments in this thread.
3. I'm so sick of hearing people say that boycotting Chick-fil-A is somehow a violation - or at least attempted stifling - of free speech. Boycotting IS free speech. People just throw "free speech" around all the time without a care in the world about what it means - just to get people all riled up. No one is oppressing anyone's free speech here. Please move along to a more thoughtful and accurate argument.
I haven't actually had time to read this thread, so maybe this has already been covered, but I have three things to say about the issue:
1. I love(d) Chick-fil-A. I think I might have been its biggest fan. When they closed down the only Chick-fil-A in my town several years ago, I had my radio DJ sister start a whole campaign to bring them back. They recently finally opened one by my house and I couldn't have been more excited. Their food is fucking delicious!
2. I keep hearing people say that the owner is just one guy who just voiced his opinion and we shouldn't fault Chick-fil-A for that. So I did a little bit of research into that. Turns out that's not true. He not only voiced his opinion, but he financially supported groups that work to encourage the legal system to deny civil rights to a whole group of people. And, more importantly, it wasn't just the actions/opinion/money of one random guy; it was actually the Chick-fil-A corporation that donated millions of dollars to these groups.
3. I'm so sick of hearing people say that boycotting Chick-fil-A is somehow a violation - or at least attempted stifling - of free speech. Boycotting IS free speech. People just throw "free speech" around all the time without a care in the world about what it means - just to get people all riled up. No one is oppressing anyone's free speech here. Please move along to a more thoughtful and accurate argument.
Like the word bigot and hater
No, actually. That's not really analagous to what I'm saying. You left out the rest of my sentence: "without a care in the world about what it means". I've rarely seen "bigot" & "hater" used in that way.
3. I'm so sick of hearing people say that boycotting Chick-fil-A is somehow a violation - or at least attempted stifling - of free speech. Boycotting IS free speech. People just throw "free speech" around all the time without a care in the world about what it means - just to get people all riled up. No one is oppressing anyone's free speech here. Please move along to a more thoughtful and accurate argument.
I didn't see the photo, but to be fair, I don't see ANY one group of people doing that.
I do see, however, lots of folks of many backgrounds, religions, races, etc. being quite giving, kind and generous.
...
I think the point is this...
I heard interviews on the radio where people in line were saying how great it felt to be out there, 'Taking back America' and supporting good 'Chirstian Values' and the 'Sanctity of Marriage'... by buying themselves a chicken sandwich for them to eat.
You know, just like Jesus used to do.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I didn't see the photo, but to be fair, I don't see ANY one group of people doing that.
I do see, however, lots of folks of many backgrounds, religions, races, etc. being quite giving, kind and generous.
...
I think the point is this...
I heard interviews on the radio where people in line were saying how great it felt to be out there, 'Taking back America' and supporting good 'Chirstian Values' and the 'Sanctity of Marriage'... by buying themselves a chicken sandwich for them to eat.
You know, just like Jesus used to do.
I didn't see the photo, but to be fair, I don't see ANY one group of people doing that.
I do see, however, lots of folks of many backgrounds, religions, races, etc. being quite giving, kind and generous.
...
I think the point is this...
I heard interviews on the radio where people in line were saying how great it felt to be out there, 'Taking back America' and supporting good 'Chirstian Values' and the 'Sanctity of Marriage'... by buying themselves a chicken sandwich for them to eat.
You know, just like Jesus used to do.
gotta love that goal of regressing american society back to the leave it to beaver days...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I didn't see the photo, but to be fair, I don't see ANY one group of people doing that.
I do see, however, lots of folks of many backgrounds, religions, races, etc. being quite giving, kind and generous.
...
I think the point is this...
I heard interviews on the radio where people in line were saying how great it felt to be out there, 'Taking back America' and supporting good 'Chirstian Values' and the 'Sanctity of Marriage'... by buying themselves a chicken sandwich for them to eat.
You know, just like Jesus used to do.
...
Brace yourself... I am sure the presidential campaigns have been paying close attention to all of this and are figuring out ways to convert the chicken eating frenzy into a rush to the polls this November.
...
Politics in America has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I didn't see the photo, but to be fair, I don't see ANY one group of people doing that.
I do see, however, lots of folks of many backgrounds, religions, races, etc. being quite giving, kind and generous.
...
I think the point is this...
I heard interviews on the radio where people in line were saying how great it felt to be out there, 'Taking back America' and supporting good 'Chirstian Values' and the 'Sanctity of Marriage'... by buying themselves a chicken sandwich for them to eat.
You know, just like Jesus used to do.
Gotcha.
Sidenote - I think I've OD'd on this issue!
Me too -- And funny post Cosmo, but I bet Jesus was a vegetarian...or was it veterinarian? or maybe he was just a vet.
Anyways, I once boycotted Checkers for 11 years, but that was pretty easy. That food is despicable. They served me a cola filled with bugs. I drank the whole thing before I realized it. Then their manager said, "this IS FLorida, and we DO have bugs you know, what do you want me to do?" Maybe apologize?
My boycott was over when I was drunk and needed some fries. This Chick fil-a boycott should be pretty easy now that i've got experience.
Comments
The religious defintion? ( if that really exists)
or the legal documentation/recoginiton that carries with it certain rights and priviledges (tax issues, mwdical decisions, etc.)
I would like to know what the divorce rate of religious, christian affiliated people are and have those on their 2nd 3rd 4th marriages tell me how hallowed and valued the instituion of marriage is.
Maybe what they are really afraid of is being shown what the commitment really means?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Someone gets it! Thank You!
Like the word bigot and hater
Kidding aside, and i respect both those 10c's for their depth & rationality.
This is more than a simple issue of freedom of speech VS freedom of consumerism.
Most of the posts have been representative of this fact, don't dumb it down like our GOP/DEM politico numskulls.
MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006
Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006
New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010
Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011
Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012
EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012
Dallas-November 2013
OKC-November 2013
ACL 2-October 2014
Fenway Night 1, August 2016
Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023
Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023
Austin, Night 1 September 2023
Austin, Night 2 September 2023
If people want to stage a "kiss-in" tomorrow they'll probably be offered free drinks or coupons afterwards from a lot of Chick-fil-A's. I have no problems at all with their nativity scenes and closing on Sundays, etc. I actually like that. I'm so tired of "Happy Holidays" because somehow Merry Christmas became so offensive, etc.. Their gay views are the first thing i've disagreed with. Other than that GREAT restaurant. Maybe Chick-fil-A should keep their views on controversial topics to themselves and maybe people should stop getting offended at every opinion. Then we could all enjoy waffle fries and chicken breakfast burritos.
PS..anyone read any In-N-Out burger/fry wrappers lately?? Hopefully the whiners don't target them next because they're not Politically Correct either.
Re: " Kinda like voting for that guy that believes its ok to kill babies. I did that last time. "
Please save me the trouble of reading these last several pages ( I'm being lazy
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I totally support a free market - where people SHOULD speak their mind (whether by voice or wallet or what have you), no matter whether their views jive with mine. It's up to each of us to give them credence or not, then take action if we so choose, or not.
The people protesting (I still don't get PETA being there :P ) are as entitled to do their thing as are those partaking of the fil-A's - which I've never tried, by the way.
I don't endorse anyone telling someone else how to live their lives, where to eat, where not to eat. And of course it goes both ways (and again in caps - SHOULD go both ways!).
Also want to say that I really appreciate the thoughtful comments in this thread.
Let me just grab a chair and watch the duel...
Godfather.
Thanks!
No, actually. That's not really analagous to what I'm saying. You left out the rest of my sentence: "without a care in the world about what it means". I've rarely seen "bigot" & "hater" used in that way.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"You'd never see that many Christians lined up at a food bank or homeless shelter. And that's something Jesus actually said to do."
Pretty much.
I do see, however, lots of folks of many backgrounds, religions, races, etc. being quite giving, kind and generous.
Nails It
I think the point is this...
I heard interviews on the radio where people in line were saying how great it felt to be out there, 'Taking back America' and supporting good 'Chirstian Values' and the 'Sanctity of Marriage'... by buying themselves a chicken sandwich for them to eat.
You know, just like Jesus used to do.
Hail, Hail!!!
boom! :thumbup:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Sidenote - I think I've OD'd on this issue!
Brace yourself... I am sure the presidential campaigns have been paying close attention to all of this and are figuring out ways to convert the chicken eating frenzy into a rush to the polls this November.
...
Politics in America has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
Hail, Hail!!!
take a break and go get yourself some really shitty chicken! :P
Me too -- And funny post Cosmo, but I bet Jesus was a vegetarian...or was it veterinarian? or maybe he was just a vet.
Anyways, I once boycotted Checkers for 11 years, but that was pretty easy. That food is despicable. They served me a cola filled with bugs. I drank the whole thing before I realized it. Then their manager said, "this IS FLorida, and we DO have bugs you know, what do you want me to do?" Maybe apologize?
My boycott was over when I was drunk and needed some fries. This Chick fil-a boycott should be pretty easy now that i've got experience.
Guess I'll turn to sushi instead
an appeal for open minded discussion...
Reverend takes on Rahm Emanuel in defense of Chick-fil-A
http://video.foxnews.com/v/176426170700 ... =obnetwork
Do you often respond to yourself?
Because ... you know, that's kind of James Holmes-esque (coo-coo) kind of behaviour, right?
Hail, Hail!!!