Colorado movie killings spark rise in gun sales

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill.

Fortunately,guns are neither needed or wanted in Canadaand other parts of the world in the same way they are needed in the US. I guess you guys are just better killers and protectors than the rest of us.

I havent seen anywhere that Blueandwhite said the US should ban guns. In fact, they said they're ok with Americans wanting their guns. Just keep in mind that most people here are just talking about some restrictions and better laws. And I'm not sure where you deduced that they dont have an understanding about responsible gun ownership. Even if Canada is 13th in ownership, I have a feeling that its an extremely small percentage compared to the per capita numbers that the US has.

I deduce that from the derogatory, insulting, unfounded and biased
statement bolded above, my fellow American citizen.

This statement identifies the lack of understanding and compassion
for the unique problems of the US
that has brought gun violence and makes owning a gun in many parts
a responsible and prudent need.

We have laws... let's enforce them!

Oh, Ok. I just saw it differently. It looked a little like sarcasm.
You've said that you dont even own a gun, so im surprised you find it insulting. And its not really unbiased or unfounded. I tried to imagine why someone from another country might make this kind of statement. I imagine its because from the outside (Canadian, Australian, etc) looking in, the US as the leader in the world in gun ownership and deaths, it would be easy to come to that assessment - that we are good at killing and good at protecting.

and Blueandwhite made a good point that noone commented on: "That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill."

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I havent seen anywhere that Blueandwhite said the US should ban guns. In fact, they said they're ok with Americans wanting their guns. Just keep in mind that most people here are just talking about some restrictions and better laws. And I'm not sure where you deduced that they dont have an understanding about responsible gun ownership. Even if Canada is 13th in ownership, I have a feeling that its an extremely small percentage compared to the per capita numbers that the US has.

I deduce that from the derogatory, insulting, unfounded and biased
statement bolded above, my fellow American citizen.

This statement identifies the lack of understanding and compassion
for the unique problems of the US
that has brought gun violence and makes owning a gun in many parts
a responsible and prudent need.

We have laws... let's enforce them!

Oh, Ok. I just saw it differently. It looked a little like sarcasm.
You've said that you dont even own a gun, so im surprised you find it insulting. And its not really unbiased or unfounded. I tried to imagine why someone from another country might make this kind of statement. I imagine its because from the outside (Canadian, Australian, etc) looking in, the US as the leader in the world in gun ownership and deaths, it would be easy to come to that assessment - that we are good at killing and good at protecting.

and Blueandwhite made a good point that noone commented on: "That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill."

Because I personally don't own a gun means nothing,
I certain can still find statements like that to be insulting towards my country
and fellow Americans. I guess that is called loyalty.

I also very much agree with responsible gun ownership.

How that is flipped around is because that is the reason for responsible gun ownership.
Not to kill but to protect. And I have addressed this repeatedly.

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Oh, Ok. I just saw it differently. It looked a little like sarcasm.
You've said that you dont even own a gun, so im surprised you find it insulting. And its not really unbiased or unfounded. I tried to imagine why someone from another country might make this kind of statement. I imagine its because from the outside (Canadian, Australian, etc) looking in, the US as the leader in the world in gun ownership and deaths, it would be easy to come to that assessment - that we are good at killing and good at protecting.

and Blueandwhite made a good point that noone commented on: "That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill."

Because I personally don't own a gun means nothing,
I certain can still find statements like that to be insulting towards my country
and fellow Americans. I guess that is called loyalty.

I also very much agree with responsible gun ownership.

How that is flipped around is because that is the reason for responsible gun ownership.
Not to kill but to protect. And I have addressed this repeatedly.

Well, we can do this all day. What about the point that the statement "Americans are good at killing and good at protecting" is accurate and true? That's why Im more surprised that you're insulted, rather than whether or not you personally own a gun.
Now its loyalty to find that insulting? So if I dont find it insulting, I am not loyal? :?

If guns don't kill people, people kill people --- then conversely, people protect people, not guns. That's the angle Blueandwhite was referring...the contradiction.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

The worldwide problem speaks for itself as far as the countries who have experienced
mass killing in the last 25 years.

In my opinion the most contributing factor lies in the devaluation of life.

No I do not feel mental illness is a major contributing factor

1 in 5 people have mental issues and gun ownership is at least 88% here in the US that means
we have some with a history of mental illness with gun access, not a majority though of course.
The majority are responsible gun owners.

We have laws on the books to protect against this that are not being enforced as we see
in the news currently.

My point in the mental illness issue is that we need affordable, readily accessible mental health
treatment before violence occurs, not after the fact.

Loughner was able to get guns and kill a little girl and others in the Gifford shooting.
He was, after the fact, found to be a schizophrenic. My hope would be that could have
been diagnosed before violence.

Thank you for clarifying that. I have a lot of stats about the rates of mental illness, but I couldn't find any linking mental illness to gun violence as a causal factor either. I absolutely agree that we need better access to affordable mental health care. As you seem to be aware, we need that regardless of situations like that of Loughner. Tragedies like that just grab everyone's attention and highlight the need even more. I just want to be careful about linking mental illness as a cause of gun violence because it is so stigmatizing and very few people with a mental health diagnosis will ever become violent in any manner. The situation with Loughner is extremely rare. While things like paranoia can result in delusions and hallucinations that can lead to violent acting out, the vast majority of people with schizophrenia and similar diagnoses will never act violently. There's a much higher link with substance abuse and gun violence/violence in general, but it's important not to add to the stigma of those dealing with addiction either, as the majority of people with addiction issues will not become violent either.

Would proper diagnosis and treatment of Loughner have prevented the shooting? I don't know. It may have been very difficult to engage and maintain him in treatment. Mental health professionals do their best at assessing risk and providing the correct level of care, but they can't predict or control behavior. It's hard to mandate treatment, it has to be at the lowest necessary level of care. The VA Tech shooter was able to buy a gun because he was mandated to an outpatient facility, but not inpatient. Even with the best access to treatment I don't think we'll be able to prevent all the tragedies that are related to mental illness, but better access to care is a step in the right direction.

fife

pandora wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

pandora wrote:

Yes I would say too late when our gun sales here in GA went up by 300%, after the shooting,
compared to the same day last year.
Not only are guns needed they are wanted.
Guns protect.

That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill.

Fortunately, guns are neither needed or wanted in Canada and other parts of the world in the same way they are needed in the US. I guess you guys are just better killers and protectors than the rest of us.

When people make their livelihood out of victimizing others and do not value life
it is prudent to protect the lives one values.
Responsible gun owners do just that ... protect.

Canada ranks 13 in gun ownership out of 178 countries of the world.

I would say you have enough guns there for you to
at least understand responsible gun ownership.
Funny that those that want to ban guns in other countries will not even extend
that understanding.

Again comparing other countries, lacking the unique problems of the magnitude the US has,
is ridiculous. There is no comparison.

First off gun ownership in canada is high but there is a difference. many of them are in the west and also north for hunting. we don't drive with guns in the car and we don't feel the need to walk around packing heat.

also, can you please tell me what these unique problems that the US has?

blueandwhite

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

Yes I would say too late when our gun sales here That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill.

Fortunately, guns are neither needed or wanted in Canada and other parts of the world in the same way they are needed in the US. I guess you guys are just better killers and protectors than the rest of us.

When people make their livelihood out of victimizing others and do not value life
it is prudent to protect the lives one values.
Responsible gun owners do just that ... protect.

Canada ranks 13 in gun ownership out of 178 countries of the world.

I would say you have enough guns there for you to
at least understand responsible gun ownership.
Funny that those that want to ban guns in other countries will not even extend
that understanding.

Again comparing other countries, lacking the unique problems of the magnitude the US has,
is ridiculous. There is no comparison.

I havent seen anywhere that Blueandwhite said the US should ban guns. In fact, they said they're ok with Americans wanting their guns. Just keep in mind that most people here are just talking about some restrictions and better laws. And I'm not sure where you deduced that they dont have an understanding about responsible gun ownership. Even if Canada is 13th in ownership, I have a feeling that its an extremely small percentage compared to the per capita numbers that the US has.

I actually fully support a person's right to own firearms. In fact, I can't think of many countries where it's actually completely illegal. Heck, I'm not even opposed to the right to carry (although I think it should be open carry as opposed to concealed). On the other hand, I get tired of people glorifying firearms and downplaying the need for responsible gun ownership. There has to be a middle ground where citizens don't literally buy firearms because they fear for their lives.

Owning a gun and being responsible are two very different things. I find the fact that there are many individuals who feel that if they were in a situation like this; in the dark, bombarded by tear gas and being attacked with an assault weapon that they would launch a counter-attack and reduce the number of casualties is unsettling. The shooter (Holmes) should never been able to acquire tear gas, body armour or an assault weapon with such ease.

Don't get me wrong, I sincerely believe that the United States is one of the greatest countries on earth, and I believe that your constitution is one of the greatest legal documents in history. I am less than impressed by the nonchalant attitude towards weaponry that is irresponsible and outright dangerous. An absolute ban on firearms is ridiculous and irresponsible but ignoring that the US has a gun problem is also in poor taste IMO.

josevolution

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

Snakeduck

josevolution wrote:

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

I'm bringing a couple for everyone partying at the KOA in Montana for when the "best drummer" arguement breaks out. First person that says Dave A is gonna look like swiss cheese.

josevolution

Snakeduck wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

I'm bringing a couple for everyone partying at the KOA in Montana for when the "best drummer" arguement breaks out. First person that says Dave A is gonna look like swiss cheese.

Classic thanks for making me smile ...

Godfather.

josevolution wrote:

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

no...better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

dimitrispearljam

Snakeduck wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

I'm bringing a couple for everyone partying at the KOA in Montana for when the "best drummer" arguement breaks out. First person that says Dave A is gonna look like swiss cheese.

josevolution

Godfather. wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

no...better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

I'd rather do that then sit around at home waiting for the Chinese to invade us with my AK47 allready to go ....enjoy your gun party

Godfather.

josevolution wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

no...better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

I'd rather do that then sit around at home waiting for the Chinese to invade us with my AK47 allready to go ....enjoy your gun party

will do my friend

Godfather.

cincybearcat

josevolution wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

no...better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

I'd rather do that then sit around at home waiting for the Chinese to invade us with my AK47 allready to go ....enjoy your gun party

Man, both of those parties suck some serious ass!!!!

Godfather.

cincybearcat wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

no...better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

I'd rather do that then sit around at home waiting for the Chinese to invade us with my AK47 allready to go ....enjoy your gun party

Man, both of those parties suck some serious ass!!!!

sorry I spoiled your new years eve party Lt. Dan.

Godfather Gump.

Smellyman

Godfather. wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Sure let's all pack guns and next time you have to argue for a parking spot just pull the gun out and blast away ....

no...better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

Burn!

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

no...better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

Not sure what you did for entertainment before you got your gun, but where I come from we had barbecues, a shit load of beer and drugs, and some hard-assed music. No guns were necessary.

g under p

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I havent seen anywhere that Blueandwhite said the US should ban guns. In fact, they said they're ok with Americans wanting their guns. Just keep in mind that most people here are just talking about some restrictions and better laws. And I'm not sure where you deduced that they dont have an understanding about responsible gun ownership. Even if Canada is 13th in ownership, I have a feeling that its an extremely small percentage compared to the per capita numbers that the US has.

I deduce that from the derogatory, insulting, unfounded and biased
statement bolded above, my fellow American citizen.

This statement identifies the lack of understanding and compassion
for the unique problems of the US
that has brought gun violence and makes owning a gun in many parts
a responsible and prudent need.

We have laws... let's enforce them!

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Oh, Ok. I just saw it differently. It looked a little like sarcasm.
You've said that you dont even own a gun, so im surprised you find it insulting. And its not really unbiased or unfounded. I tried to imagine why someone from another country might make this kind of statement. I imagine its because from the outside (Canadian, Australian, etc) looking in, the US as the leader in the world in gun ownership and deaths, it would be easy to come to that assessment - that we are good at killing and good at protecting.

and Blueandwhite made a good point that noone commented on: "That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill."

Because I personally don't own a gun means nothing,
I certain can still find statements like that to be insulting towards my country
and fellow Americans. I guess that is called loyalty.

I also very much agree with responsible gun ownership.

How that is flipped around is because that is the reason for responsible gun ownership.
Not to kill but to protect. And I have addressed this repeatedly.

So how do you or how does one have responsible gun ownership in not killing but to only protect? Do you become responsible somehow when your life is in jeopardy you only shoot to lame a person but NOT killing them. If you have to use a gun you are now in the mentality that you may have to kill. Just showing a gun isn't going to protect you, one better be PREPARED to use it to kill once it has been pulled in order to protect yourself.

I hope that made sense I'm rushing off to work. I do plan on getting my rifle for target shooting in all 3 positions in the near future.

Peace

brianlux

Hey, like Jimi Hendrix said, instead of walking down the street with machine guns why don't we, ahh, you know, walk down the street with electric guitars. Yeah, uh, something like this...

feedback... Wild Thing!

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

better yet why don't we sit around the camp fire eat tofu and eggplant and sing kumba yaw.

Godfather.

Meanwhile...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19022567


US 'joker' held in Maryland over alleged gun threats
27 July 2012


This police photo shows the guns found in possession of the suspect

A heavily armed man who called himself a "joker" has been arrested after threatening his employer in the US state of Maryland, police say.

Neil Prescott, 28, allegedly said he was going to "load my guns and blow everybody up" at his workplace.

Wearing a t-shirt that read "guns don't kill people. I do" when arrested, he was in the process of being fired.

The suspect in last week's massacre at a Colorado Batman screening reportedly told police he was The Joker.

Mark Magaw, police chief of Prince George's County in Maryland, told reporters they were taking "all threats seriously" in light of last Friday's shootings.

"If you're going to make a threat, we will take action," he said.

Mr Prescott had several thousand rounds of ammunition and about two dozen firearms in his apartment when it was searched by the authorities on Friday morning.

Police said he was "very quiet" and co-operative when arrested at his home in Crofton, near Annapolis.

He allegedly made multiple threats this week, including telling a supervisor at the mailroom supplier where he worked that he wanted to see his "brain splatter on the floor".

Mr Prescott was receiving a mental health evaluation with charges pending.

Meanwhile, a defence motion filed on Friday says that James Holmes, the suspect in the Colorado shooting, was being treated by a psychiatrist at the university where he studied.

On Friday in Colorado more than 1,000 people attended the funeral of Micayla Medek, one of the 12 victims of last week's shooting.

The 23-year-old was a student who had gone to the movie with a group of friends.

A full military funeral is scheduled next Friday for Jonathan Blunk, a navy veteran.