Sandusky Trial

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Those questions are irrelevant now.
"An internal probe into the Penn State child sex abuse scandal found that top university officials, including former president Graham Spanier and then-head football coach Joe Paterno, concealed allegations of abuse by ex-assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky to "avoid the consequences of bad publicity."

To what degree did he fuck up? He allowed a grown man to RAPE underage boys without consequence. There is no degree to that. Its fucking pathetic and the bottom of the barrel. How much lower can you go? No degree...just the bottom.

Oh, there irrelevant becase you can't answer them?
When I say degree, what I mean is, what knowlegdge did Joe have.
That is the question I am asking YOU...
Please tell me with Proof WHAT DID JOE KNOW?
This was a state wide cover up. From the State DA, police, PSU president, PSU AD and Paterno.
Not just Paterno...

JonnyPistachio

Blockhead wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Those questions are irrelevant now.
"An internal probe into the Penn State child sex abuse scandal found that top university officials, including former president Graham Spanier and then-head football coach Joe Paterno, concealed allegations of abuse by ex-assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky to "avoid the consequences of bad publicity."

To what degree did he fuck up? He allowed a grown man to RAPE underage boys without consequence. There is no degree to that. Its fucking pathetic and the bottom of the barrel. How much lower can you go? No degree...just the bottom.

Oh, there irrelevant becase you can't answer them?
When I say degree, what I mean is, what knowlegdge did Joe have.
That is the question I am asking YOU...
Please tell me with Proof WHAT DID JOE KNOW?
This was a state wide cover up. From the State DA, police, PSU president, PSU AD and Paterno.
Not just Paterno...

Nope, I cant answer them, and I dont care to.
I dont know to what degree specifically Joe knew...nobody knows that except Joe. The problem I have with this is that if he even had suspicions that Sandusky was doing something illegal, he should've investigated it. If he had any inclination that Sandusky, a man who worked under him, was violating young defenseless boys, he shouldve investigated. Penn State, a university that is trying to keep their image, just admitted that Joe concealed allegations of abuse. What more do you want? Are you saying he didnt do anything wrong?

Before his death in interviews, Paterno himself said he was devastated by these events and wished he had done more to prevent them. Again, what more do you want?
:fp:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/12/re ... -children/

Paterno "was an integral part of this active decision to conceal" and his firing was justified, Freeh said at a news conference. He called the officials' disregard for child victims "callous and shocking."

Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," said former FBI Director Louis Freeh, who was hired by university trustees to look into what has become one of sports' biggest scandals. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."

Do you still need more?

Blockhead

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Nope, I cant answer them, and I dont care to.
I dont know to what degree specifically Joe knew...nobody knows that except Joe. The problem I have with this is that if he even had suspicions that Sandusky was doing something illegal, he should've investigated it. If he had any inclination that Sandusky, a man who worked under him, was violating young defenseless boys, he shouldve investigated. Penn State, a university that is trying to keep their image, just admitted that Joe concealed allegations of abuse. What more do you want? Are you saying he didnt do anything wrong?

Before his death in interviews, Paterno himself said he was devastated by these events and wished he had done more to prevent them. Again, what more do you want?
:fp:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/12/re ... -children/

Paterno "was an integral part of this active decision to conceal" and his firing was justified, Freeh said at a news conference. He called the officials' disregard for child victims "callous and shocking."

Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," said former FBI Director Louis Freeh, who was hired by university trustees to look into what has become one of sports' biggest scandals. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."

Do you still need more?

To your first part, Why do you expect him to investigate something that was already investigated and in which the charges were dropped by the State District Attorney?

To your second Part. You can find the report anywhere and read it. I suggest you do so and come to your own conclusion on it, The report shows no evidence against Paterno and its pretty much one guys interpertation of stuff we already knew.

I would like to state that I am not Defending Paterno, Just trying to find the truth on this matter as PSU has a great impact on me and my family

pjhawks

Blockhead wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Nope, I cant answer them, and I dont care to.
I dont know to what degree specifically Joe knew...nobody knows that except Joe. The problem I have with this is that if he even had suspicions that Sandusky was doing something illegal, he should've investigated it. If he had any inclination that Sandusky, a man who worked under him, was violating young defenseless boys, he shouldve investigated. Penn State, a university that is trying to keep their image, just admitted that Joe concealed allegations of abuse. What more do you want? Are you saying he didnt do anything wrong?

Before his death in interviews, Paterno himself said he was devastated by these events and wished he had done more to prevent them. Again, what more do you want?
:fp:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/12/re ... -children/

Paterno "was an integral part of this active decision to conceal" and his firing was justified, Freeh said at a news conference. He called the officials' disregard for child victims "callous and shocking."

Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," said former FBI Director Louis Freeh, who was hired by university trustees to look into what has become one of sports' biggest scandals. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."

Do you still need more?

To your first part, Why do you expect him to investigate something that was already investigated and in which the charges were dropped by the State District Attorney?

To your second Part. You can find the report anywhere and read it. I suggest you do so and come to your own conclusion on it, The report shows no evidence against Paterno and its pretty much one guys interpertation of stuff we already knew.

I would like to state that I am not Defending Paterno, Just trying to find the truth on this matter as PSU has a great impact on me and my family

all circumstancial evidence points that JoePa knew, even back to 1998. not sure how anyone in their right mind could dispute that. to me anyone disputing it is just a blind loyalist.

JonnyPistachio

Blockhead wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Nope, I cant answer them, and I dont care to.
I dont know to what degree specifically Joe knew...nobody knows that except Joe. The problem I have with this is that if he even had suspicions that Sandusky was doing something illegal, he should've investigated it. If he had any inclination that Sandusky, a man who worked under him, was violating young defenseless boys, he shouldve investigated. Penn State, a university that is trying to keep their image, just admitted that Joe concealed allegations of abuse. What more do you want? Are you saying he didnt do anything wrong?

Before his death in interviews, Paterno himself said he was devastated by these events and wished he had done more to prevent them. Again, what more do you want?
:fp:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/12/re ... -children/

Paterno "was an integral part of this active decision to conceal" and his firing was justified, Freeh said at a news conference. He called the officials' disregard for child victims "callous and shocking."

Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," said former FBI Director Louis Freeh, who was hired by university trustees to look into what has become one of sports' biggest scandals. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."

Do you still need more?

To your first part, Why do you expect him to investigate something that was already investigated and in which the charges were dropped by the State District Attorney?

To your second Part. You can find the report anywhere and read it. I suggest you do so and come to your own conclusion on it, The report shows no evidence against Paterno and its pretty much one guys interpertation of stuff we already knew.

I would like to state that I am not Defending Paterno, Just trying to find the truth on this matter as PSU has a great impact on me and my family

I see you ignored the bolded part.
I'll just repeat it:
Before his death in interviews, Paterno himself said he was devastated by these events and wished he had done more to prevent them.
McQuerry came to him in 2001 (or was it 2002), and told him Sandusky was fondling a kid. There were plenty of opportunities for him to step up to the plate and do what was right. He simply didnt do enough, and he admitted that.

Sorry, I dont need more than that. He fucked up, bottom line. When kids are involved, you cant just sit back and let shit like this happen.

Sorry that this strikes home for you, but its ok to admit people made horrific mistakes and just move on. shit happens, and its out of our control most of the time. Hey, im a huge Gator fan, but if my school was implicated in something like this, i'd just hope that they would have the determination to make it right, apologize, and work toward making a better future and preventing this from ever happemning again.

So, now that we got that out in the open, what SEC team were you with? Maybe we can move our argument on to SEC.

norm

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - Lord Acton

EdsonNascimento

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... tball-team

The conclusion:

As with the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church, no parent can send a child into the world without wondering not only if a Sandusky is near their child but also if there are Paternos and Spaniers, Curleys and Schultzes who lack the courage and priority to protect them. The trusted failed, and everyone lost.


_______________________________
As to those alluding to the Boy Scouts, etc. - yes, the individual areas that failed should be shut down. Just like the Football program at Penn State, but not the University. I haven't seen anybody calling for the school to be shut down. Just the Institution within the Institution. So, in the case of the Boy Scouts, the analogy would be that the individual troops are discontinued. Honestly, I can't tell you if that's been done or not. But, even if not, why can't there be a first to lead? It makes it ok not to do right because someone else doesn't?

Paterno knew enough and was powerful enough to put a stop to it. He persuaded the "higher ups" that his psycophants are trying to hide him behind to NOT go to the authorities. He was clearly in charge despite titles. He crushed the female Board Member that tried to confront him about fights players were involved in. There is no doubt who was king in the land of Nit(tany)-wits. And it was all done to prevent bad publicity and damage to the program.

I honestly hope his family loses everything due to law suits. Perhaps, then, they too can finally come to the realization of what their pa-pa caused. Imagine if Jay Paterno was one of the teen-agers Sandusky did this to.... What would Joe's reaction have been then?

DeLukin

As an alum and current employee at PSU I can say that the whole thing is shameful and a nightmare that I still wish we could wake up from. My heart still breaks for the victims, and to think that the leadership of the University I love had a hand in letting that monster get away with what he did for a decade is almost more than I can bear.

But whatever the true motivation for not doing enough to stop it - which we will probably never know, by the way - I'm not about forget the good that Penn State does. It's an amazing institution and I am still proud of my association with it. Once this storm settles and the media focus their attention elsewhere I'll be proud of how PSU rises from the ashes of this scandal and makes 'Success with Honor' something to be said with pride and not sarcasm. And hopefully the good that comes from all this bad will help other people in other places understand how to make sure something like this never happens again. If that's the end result of all this - if just one child is spared such a horrific fate - I think 99% of Penn Staters past and present would agree everything that has happened to us as a University this past year was worth it.

ComeToTX

He was at the very least told about the '98 incident and when he heard from McQueary about the shower incident 3 years later he did nothing until days later. He didn't want to ruin his cohorts weekend! Are you fucking kidding me? He knew enough in '99 not to want Sandusky to bring 2nd mile kids on campus because it could be a "liability." He knew too much to never have done anything.

As an alum of SMU, the only school to receive the death penalty, it seems comical that people don't think they deserve it. It's the definition of lack of institutional control. He raped children on campus while coaches and AD's did fucking nothing!

EdsonNascimento

DeLukin wrote:

As an alum and current employee at PSU I can say that the whole thing is shameful and a nightmare that I still wish we could wake up from. My heart still breaks for the victims, and to think that the leadership of the University I love had a hand in letting that monster get away with what he did for a decade is almost more than I can bear.

But whatever the true motivation for not doing enough to stop it - which we will probably never know, by the way - I'm not about forget the good that Penn State does. It's an amazing institution and I am still proud of my association with it. Once this storm settles and the media focus their attention elsewhere I'll be proud of how PSU rises from the ashes of this scandal and makes 'Success with Honor' something to be said with pride and not sarcasm. And hopefully the good that comes from all this bad will help other people in other places understand how to make sure something like this never happens again. If that's the end result of all this - if just one child is spared such a horrific fate - I think 99% of Penn Staters past and present would agree everything that has happened to us as a University this past year was worth it.

I appreciate the situation you're in, but let's be clear on 1 thing - the TRUE MOTIVATION is perfectly clear - protecting the Football Program. Do insiders not see that?

And, yes, Penn State has the largest Student run fund raiser (among other good things) - the Danceathon for Children's Cancer. But, would you trade all that to give these children back their lives? The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?

DeLukin

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I appreciate the situation you're in, but let's be clear on 1 thing - the TRUE MOTIVATION is perfectly clear - protecting the Football Program. Do insiders not see that?

And, yes, Penn State has the largest Student run fund raiser (among other good things) - the Danceathon for Children's Cancer. But, would you trade all that to give these children back their lives? The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?

We'll never know what the true motivation was for not doing enough because there were a LOT of points of failure - not just from within the football program or Administration. Out of respect for the situation I'm not going to get into an argument about why any of this was allowed to happen, but I will say that anyone who actually read the Freeh report would have to consider it a gross oversimplification to say that what happened was completely about protecting a football program:

http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

JonnyPistachio

EdsonNascimento wrote:

The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?

I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?

Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?

DeLukin

Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?

None of the Board of Trustees have lost their positions, to date. Ultimately their lack of oversight was a huge factor in why things went on for as long as they did, and their bungling of the scandal's fall-out was inexcusable. It boggles my mind that nobody outside of PSU wants their heads on a platter...

EdsonNascimento

JonnyPistachio wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?

I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?

Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?

I agree. So, let's not ever punish any program for anything they do. People might get hurt via punishment, so why bother?

EdsonNascimento

DeLukin wrote:

Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?

None of the Board of Trustees have lost their positions, to date. Ultimately their lack of oversight was a huge factor in why things went on for as long as they did, and their bungling of the scandal's fall-out was inexcusable. It boggles my mind that nobody outside of PSU wants their heads on a platter...

Ah!!! I see where you are coming from.

Well, the report was commissioned by the Board, so that's a fair place to be cynical. However, for those that have read the report, it seems to be clear that Spanier, Paterno, et. al. conspired (by the legal term) to withhold information from the Board.

Now, whether individuals on the Board knew more than what they are letting on, well, let's continue the investigation if you like, and heads can roll there as well if there's proof of wrong doing. At this point, it is clear what they did wrong was not have better institutional control over the Football Program. Yet, somehow it's deemed too harsh by some to put that program to sleep b/c it might harm others. Nevermind the children's lives it destroyed. :?

I'm interested to see how the potential Clery Act Violations will be determined and if wrong doing was done what will happen to Federal Grant monies. It's interesting that even on that level, there's been opinion that the Feds should not do anything b/c jobs might be at stake. Obviously, that's all conjecture at this point as no proper legal determination has been made on that level. So, it is clearly much too early to say one way or the other what should or should not be done. I just find it fascinating that folks actually believe our laws should potentially be interpreted based on jobs, the economy, etc. The next drunk driver should be let off b/c he is the head of household and without him, his wife and kids won't have money to feed themselves. But, I digress. Way, way, way too early in THAT process.

JonnyPistachio

EdsonNascimento wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?

I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?

Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?

I agree. So, let's not ever punish any program for anything they do. People might get hurt via punishment, so why bother?

Ok smartass. Yeah, the WRONG people will get hurt from this kind of punishment. How people dont see that is amazing to me. So you want to punish their young quarterback who had nothing to do with this, the guy who washes their uniforms, the linebacker coach, and the waterboy? Nice. honestly, why stop there? You might as well call to shut down the whole athletic program or the whole school. There are several people who you can pinpoint as the problem...why punish hundreds, if not thousands of people for something they had nothing to do with? Doesnt make any sense to me at all.

And I didnt know there were still people implicated that are on the board there. I say remove all the people who had ties to this scandal and let them play ball.

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Yet, somehow it's deemed too harsh by some to put that program to sleep b/c it might harm others. Nevermind the children's lives it destroyed. :?

I doubt the punishment of innocent people will ever help the children's lives that have been affected by this scandal.

EdsonNascimento

JonnyPistachio wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?

Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?

I agree. So, let's not ever punish any program for anything they do. People might get hurt via punishment, so why bother?

Ok smartass. Yeah, the WRONG people will get hurt from this kind of punishment. How people dont see that is amazing to me. So you want to punish their young quarterback who had nothing to do with this, the guy who washes their uniforms, the linebacker coach, and the waterboy? Nice. honestly, why stop there? You might as well call to shut down the whole athletic program or the whole school. There are several people who you can pinpoint as the problem...why punish hundreds, if not thousands of people for something they had nothing to do with? Doesnt make any sense to me at all.

And I didnt know there were still people implicated that are on the board there. I say remove all the people who had ties to this scandal and let them play ball.

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Yet, somehow it's deemed too harsh by some to put that program to sleep b/c it might harm others. Nevermind the children's lives it destroyed. :?

I doubt the punishment of innocent people will ever help the children's lives that have been affected by this scandal.

I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.

And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....

pjhawks

EdsonNascimento wrote:

lol: I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.

And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....

it's funny that i don't hear the same people asking the Archdiocese of every major American city to be shut down. the Catholic Church covered up way more abuse than penn st. should all those churches of those parishes where abuse took place and covered up have to stop saying mass?

EdsonNascimento

pjhawks wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

lol: I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.

And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....

it's funny that i don't hear the same people asking the Archdiocese of every major American city to be shut down. the Catholic Church covered up way more abuse than penn st. should all those churches of those parishes where abuse took place and covered up have to stop saying mass?

Fine with me.

BTW, if folks want a "look back" punishment instead of the shut down the program, here's one proposal:

1) Wipe all association with the Four idiots from their University. Forfeit all wins, trophies, names wiped out of record books. Names and associations cannot be used in any University related way.
2) Pay back to the NCAA all revenues from the last 14 years of the football program. This includes, but is not limited to all donations made in relations to the football program the last 14 years (i.e. since the 1998 report was made to the head of the football program).

Is that acceptable or will that harm too many people? Of course, I don't see how any of that ensures that the program has in fact been wiped clean of its infection. But, how 'bout it? Does that work for you guys?

norm

so the woman who said this

Huck said Sandusky has “done some wonderful things in his lifetime and we should try to help him ... We all make little mistakes in our lives.”

had a building named after her today

there is an awful lot of denial in happy valley...it's gonna take more than shutting down the football program to get this type of thinking out of there