I appreciate the situation you're in, but let's be clear on 1 thing - the TRUE MOTIVATION is perfectly clear - protecting the Football Program. Do insiders not see that?
And, yes, Penn State has the largest Student run fund raiser (among other good things) - the Danceathon for Children's Cancer. But, would you trade all that to give these children back their lives? The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?
We'll never know what the true motivation was for not doing enough because there were a LOT of points of failure - not just from within the football program or Administration. Out of respect for the situation I'm not going to get into an argument about why any of this was allowed to happen, but I will say that anyone who actually read the Freeh report would have to consider it a gross oversimplification to say that what happened was completely about protecting a football program:
The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?
I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?
Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?
Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?
None of the Board of Trustees have lost their positions, to date. Ultimately their lack of oversight was a huge factor in why things went on for as long as they did, and their bungling of the scandal's fall-out was inexcusable. It boggles my mind that nobody outside of PSU wants their heads on a platter...
The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?
I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?
Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?
I agree. So, let's not ever punish any program for anything they do. People might get hurt via punishment, so why bother?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?
None of the Board of Trustees have lost their positions, to date. Ultimately their lack of oversight was a huge factor in why things went on for as long as they did, and their bungling of the scandal's fall-out was inexcusable. It boggles my mind that nobody outside of PSU wants their heads on a platter...
Ah!!! I see where you are coming from.
Well, the report was commissioned by the Board, so that's a fair place to be cynical. However, for those that have read the report, it seems to be clear that Spanier, Paterno, et. al. conspired (by the legal term) to withhold information from the Board.
Now, whether individuals on the Board knew more than what they are letting on, well, let's continue the investigation if you like, and heads can roll there as well if there's proof of wrong doing. At this point, it is clear what they did wrong was not have better institutional control over the Football Program. Yet, somehow it's deemed too harsh by some to put that program to sleep b/c it might harm others. Nevermind the children's lives it destroyed. :?
I'm interested to see how the potential Clery Act Violations will be determined and if wrong doing was done what will happen to Federal Grant monies. It's interesting that even on that level, there's been opinion that the Feds should not do anything b/c jobs might be at stake. Obviously, that's all conjecture at this point as no proper legal determination has been made on that level. So, it is clearly much too early to say one way or the other what should or should not be done. I just find it fascinating that folks actually believe our laws should potentially be interpreted based on jobs, the economy, etc. The next drunk driver should be let off b/c he is the head of household and without him, his wife and kids won't have money to feed themselves. But, I digress. Way, way, way too early in THAT process.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
The choice is simple - end the root cause - football (for now at least) and focus on the good you speak of. If one impacts the other, then was it a worthy cause to begin with? And if not, have we become that Machiavelian?
I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?
Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?
I agree. So, let's not ever punish any program for anything they do. People might get hurt via punishment, so why bother?
Ok smartass. Yeah, the WRONG people will get hurt from this kind of punishment. How people dont see that is amazing to me. So you want to punish their young quarterback who had nothing to do with this, the guy who washes their uniforms, the linebacker coach, and the waterboy? Nice. honestly, why stop there? You might as well call to shut down the whole athletic program or the whole school. There are several people who you can pinpoint as the problem...why punish hundreds, if not thousands of people for something they had nothing to do with? Doesnt make any sense to me at all.
And I didnt know there were still people implicated that are on the board there. I say remove all the people who had ties to this scandal and let them play ball.
I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?
Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?
I agree. So, let's not ever punish any program for anything they do. People might get hurt via punishment, so why bother?
Ok smartass. Yeah, the WRONG people will get hurt from this kind of punishment. How people dont see that is amazing to me. So you want to punish their young quarterback who had nothing to do with this, the guy who washes their uniforms, the linebacker coach, and the waterboy? Nice. honestly, why stop there? You might as well call to shut down the whole athletic program or the whole school. There are several people who you can pinpoint as the problem...why punish hundreds, if not thousands of people for something they had nothing to do with? Doesnt make any sense to me at all.
And I didnt know there were still people implicated that are on the board there. I say remove all the people who had ties to this scandal and let them play ball.
Yet, somehow it's deemed too harsh by some to put that program to sleep b/c it might harm others. Nevermind the children's lives it destroyed. :?
I doubt the punishment of innocent people will ever help the children's lives that have been affected by this scandal.
I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.
And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
lol: I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.
And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....
it's funny that i don't hear the same people asking the Archdiocese of every major American city to be shut down. the Catholic Church covered up way more abuse than penn st. should all those churches of those parishes where abuse took place and covered up have to stop saying mass?
lol: I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.
And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....
it's funny that i don't hear the same people asking the Archdiocese of every major American city to be shut down. the Catholic Church covered up way more abuse than penn st. should all those churches of those parishes where abuse took place and covered up have to stop saying mass?
Fine with me.
BTW, if folks want a "look back" punishment instead of the shut down the program, here's one proposal:
1) Wipe all association with the Four idiots from their University. Forfeit all wins, trophies, names wiped out of record books. Names and associations cannot be used in any University related way.
2) Pay back to the NCAA all revenues from the last 14 years of the football program. This includes, but is not limited to all donations made in relations to the football program the last 14 years (i.e. since the 1998 report was made to the head of the football program).
Is that acceptable or will that harm too many people? Of course, I don't see how any of that ensures that the program has in fact been wiped clean of its infection. But, how 'bout it? Does that work for you guys?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
there is an awful lot of denial in happy valley...it's gonna take more than shutting down the football program to get this type of thinking out of there
I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.
Hey man, we can all have differing opinions. Thats fine. I quite understand punishments and how they work. I've heard of football programs shut down because of things directly related to the team that might affect their ability to play. But i've never heard of punishing a whole entire system because of the crimes of a man that isnt even a player. So, the hundreds of people that work on PSU football in administrative jobs should just go "find another job" I suppose too?
And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....
:? This makes absolutley no sense. It actually proves my point. Do you understand punishment? Yes, Sandusky is prevented from raping another child by his punishment. Killing a sports team does nothing except prevent people from jobs and make thousands of people have to readjust their lives because of the actions of a few. Unless you are suggesting that by killing the PSU football team, you are preventing possible further rapes in the locker room? (my turn to be a wise ass) Yup, I see what you want, to prevent future rapes in PSU = get rid of team! beware, more smartassery on the way...maybe we should shut down the grocery store where Ted Bundy worked too.
lol: I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.
And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....
it's funny that i don't hear the same people asking the Archdiocese of every major American city to be shut down. the Catholic Church covered up way more abuse than penn st. should all those churches of those parishes where abuse took place and covered up have to stop saying mass?
Fine with me.
BTW, if folks want a "look back" punishment instead of the shut down the program, here's one proposal:
1) Wipe all association with the Four idiots from their University. Forfeit all wins, trophies, names wiped out of record books. Names and associations cannot be used in any University related way.
2) Pay back to the NCAA all revenues from the last 14 years of the football program. This includes, but is not limited to all donations made in relations to the football program the last 14 years (i.e. since the 1998 report was made to the head of the football program).
Is that acceptable or will that harm too many people? Of course, I don't see how any of that ensures that the program has in fact been wiped clean of its infection. But, how 'bout it? Does that work for you guys?
nope not at all. punish all in the court of law. that's where 98% of the punishment should take place. take paterno's name off any buildings and take the statue down. that is sufficient for me.
I'm the smartass. My point was - by your logic, every forward looking punisment in college sports effects those that weren't involved, so let's not do anything to anyone. I mean - does vacating victories and erasing a name do anything? Fine, do that ALSO (or not, I really don't care). Let the QB transfer without any impunity (i.e. let him play immediately). You see - if Penn State had simply announced it was shutting down its own program last Spring, these players could have applied and been approved by the NCAA to do just that. That's ok. Now, let them play out this season (With no post season), then shut it down next year and allow those that want to transfer to transfer and play immediately, and those that want to stay to stay on scholarship.
Hey man, we can all have differing opinions. Thats fine. I quite understand punishments and how they work. I've heard of football programs shut down because of things directly related to the team that might affect their ability to play. But i've never heard of punishing a whole entire system because of the crimes of a man that isnt even a player. So, the hundreds of people that work on PSU football in administrative jobs should just go "find another job" I suppose too?
And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....
:? This makes absolutley no sense. It actually proves my point. Do you understand punishment? Yes, Sandusky is prevented from raping another child by his punishment. Killing a sports team does nothing except prevent people from jobs and make thousands of people have to readjust their lives because of the actions of a few. Unless you are suggesting that by killing the PSU football team, you are preventing possible further rapes in the locker room? (my turn to be a wise ass) Yup, I see what you want, to prevent future rapes in PSU = get rid of team! beware, more smartassery on the way...maybe we should shut down the grocery store where Ted Bundy worked too.
To the first part - USC lost scholarships because of the Reggie Bush thing. Everyone involved in the Reggie Bush thing (including Reggie himself who actually committed most of the actions on his own) were long gone. Where's the equity for the few football players that missed out? How did Reggie Bush effect them playing 8 years later?
Tatoos at Ohio State - how did that effect how they played? I'm really missing your lack of connection here.
Personally, if I had anything to do with the PSU football program, I'd have already been looking for a new job. But, that's just me. I've made job decisions based on the ethics of my superiors all my life.
To the latter - clearly hyperbole on my part. But, the point being - without the football program the crimes do not happen. The football program was the vehicle by which Paterno, Spanier, Curley all committed their crimes. It was the program they were protecting as the sole reason. It's not the same as Ted Bundy's store. It is the same as the Second Mile Foundation which HAS been shut down. It's the same as Madoff's Investment Company which HAS been shut down. There were folks with jobs at both those places that had nothing to do with the actual crimes committed.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
To the latter - clearly hyperbole on my part. But, the point being - without the football program the crimes do not happen. The football program was the vehicle by which Paterno, Spanier, Curley all committed their crimes. It was the program they were protecting as the sole reason. It's not the same as Ted Bundy's store. It is the same as the Second Mile Foundation which HAS been shut down. It's the same as Madoff's Investment Company which HAS been shut down. There were folks with jobs at both those places that had nothing to do with the actual crimes committed.
How does a football program do anything exactly?
Second Mile was started by Sandusky - that's why it was shutdown.
Why stop at just the football program, shut the university down. It happened under the president's watch. I'm confused as to how or why you draw the line.
the football program was not the problem...it was the person(s) running the program that was the problem...he's gone...follow that up with the BoT and anyone else remotely involved with the program and get rid of them...punishing the current athletes accomplishes nothing
Dude, you are completely missing the point of NCAA punishment in general. USC and Ohio State were penalized because getting free shit gives them a better chance of first, landing a recruit and second, keeping the player, giving them an unfair advantage on the field.
While child rape is obviously much worse in every way imaginable, you can't even begin to compare the two.
there is an awful lot of denial in happy valley...it's gonna take more than shutting down the football program to get this type of thinking out of there
Sadly, there are enough apologists and people to find excuses for pedophiles and those enabling pedophiles (which, for me, is the same thing) - even here. "'... Sandusky will put a black eye on everything,'' - maybe if all these enablers hadn't turned a blind eye for so long the 'black eye on everything' wouldn't be so bad. Nasty taste in everyone's mouth (well, not everyone) and lots of doubts and questions about how things are run in a lot of people's minds.
Analysis: Freeh report sheds new light on Jerry Sandusky scandal, but needs context
Published: Saturday, July 14, 2012, 5:08 PM Updated: Sunday, July 15, 2012, 12:42 AM
SARA GANIM, The Patriot-News By SARA GANIM, The Patriot-News
Louis Freeh’s report is another layer peeled back.
It’s a little more light shed on secrets kept buried for decades.
It’s not the whole picture, although it has led to facts and interpretations that provide more answers than we’ve had so far about Jerry Sandusky, Penn State, and what happened in Pennsylvania.
This story has so many angles: the stigma of sex crimes, the reactions of officials, a missing prosecutor, a children’s charity, the foster care system, a small town with a big football influence, and a prosecutor with political aspirations.
So Freeh’s report — which Penn State paid $6.5 million for and was released Thursday, needs some context.
Pulling some of the most intriguing facts from the report, I put them into context with other things we’ve learned — from Sandusky’s criminal trial, to simultaneous investigations, to simple common sense.
Sandusky’s retirement
If former Penn State President Graham Spanier, Joe Paterno, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz all really knew the details of the 1998 police report and the allegations within it, the terms of Sandusky’s retirement a year later are outrageous.
Spanier bent over backward to get Sandusky emeritus status, according to the Freeh report, even though he didn’t have the academic qualifications. That status included an office on campus and keys to the shower, where he would abuse several more boys until he was arrested.
In fact, seven of the 10 boys Sandusky molested were abused after 1999.
“Penn State agreed to provide Jerry Sandusky with a retirement package that specifically included Penn State credentials and access that enabled him to continue to groom and sexually abuse boys,” wrote attorneys Andrew Shubin and Justine Andronici, who represent Victims 7, 10 and 3, along with Matt Sandusky and others who have come forward to police.
Campus police
What Freeh uncovered about the 1998 investigation leaves a lot unanswered.
Why was the report mislabeled as something other than a criminal incident? To make it hard to find?
Why were administrators known for meddling in police investigations? The detective handling that case, Ron Schreffler, told the Freeh group his experience was that Old Main could stick their noses in cases.
He said that didn’t happen in this case, but the attorney for that victim, known as Victim 6, said it appeared Sandusky was treated differently than other suspects in child abuse cases because of an intimidating atmosphere.
“Could this by the reason why police investigators experienced in working with child victims of sexual abuse were not called upon to look into the incident? Is this why a counselor with past financial ties to the university — not a licensed psychologist — was called in to give a ‘second opinion’ after a licensed clinical psychologist reported Sandusky fit the profile of a pedophile?
Is this the reason Sandusky was treated deferentially by police and intentionally not put ‘on the defensive’ when questioned by police?” wrote Howard Janet, attorney for Victim 6.
Is this an indictment on the objectivity of campus police agencies?
New characters
There are a few people mentioned for the first time as key players in the narrative.
One was the unnamed trustee who demanded to know more from Graham Spanier and Cynthia Baldwin about the March 2011 Patriot-News article. He was blown off in many ways, evidence that Spanier was wild with power.
But more intriguing is former Centre County Assistant District Attorney Karen Arnold. We knew she worked on the 1998 police investigation that never led to charges against Sandusky. But her role was minimized until now, and blame for no charges being filed was put on her boss, missing former prosecutor Ray Gricar.
Gricar would have made that call. But Arnold seems to have played a pretty big role in that investigation. She refused to talk to the Freeh group, even though she testified before the grand jury. Why?
Changing story
In January, when Karen Peetz and Keith Masser were elected to be chair and vice chair of Penn State’s board of trustees, they said they didn’t feel Graham Spanier and Cynthia Baldwin had intentionally misled them.
In an interview with The Patriot-News that month, several other trustees said they did not believe the board lacked oversight of university officials, and didn’t see a need to for more control.
Both of those stances were abandoned Thursday with the release of the Freeh report.
The board took responsibility for failing to keep top administrators accountable and for fostering a culture of secrecy and silence.
The report also says Spanier and Baldwin misled the board about the gravity of the grand jury investigation and the impact it could have on Penn State.
The role of the governor
The role of the Governor, and former attorney general, is evolving.
According to Freeh, trustees remember varying degrees of Tom Corbett’s involvement in the decision to fire Graham Spanier and Joe Paterno.
One board member remembers him giving an ultimatum: Take decisive action, or there will be a “loss of support for Penn State.” Others remember him being quiet during the meeting where the firings were decided.
Corbett himself has said he did say something along the lines of “remembering the children.”
Second Mile misconceptions
There’s a false belief that more information may still come from The Second Mile’s internal investigation.
It won’t.
Essentially, what Lynne Abraham’s firm found, they used to recommend the children’s charity dissolve and transfer assets to Texas-based charity Arrow Ministries.
No internal report was completed and no public reflection about whether policies were violated will be released publicly. When pressed on the issue, CEO David Woodle said only that the internal report’s decision to continue programs elsewhere was a positive reflection on the charity.
What’s missing
If abuse of power by top administrators was so bad, were there any other cover-ups?
Was there meddling in other reports? Were other investigations compromised? Were there other violations — academic, athletic, or otherwise — found by the Freeh team?
The report focuses solely on the Sandusky case, but we know that former vice president for student affairs, Vicky Triponey, was interviewed and talked about Paterno wanting to handle problems internally.
Were her claims deemed not credible, or were they just kept from the report?
How about other victims?
When Freeh was asked if his team went back further than 1998, he responded they did, but he didn’t say if anything else was found. In fact, his findings don’t expand beyond any of the victims that were in the criminal trial against Sandusky.
He did say that players and coaches in athletics witnessed Sandusky showering with young boys prior to 1998, but nothing criminal was noted before that year.
really ... as more information comes forth - I find it even more ludicrous how we put people on pedestals for all the wrong reasons in this world ... joe paterno was a football coach ... he wasn't some great human being ... this stuff coming out with his family demanding all this private jet, luxury box shit ... they are just your average me-first family ... not sure why anyone would give a rats ass about penn state/joe pa's legacy ... fuck them both ...
really ... as more information comes forth - I find it even more ludicrous how we put people on pedestals for all the wrong reasons in this world ... joe paterno was a football coach ... he wasn't some great human being ... this stuff coming out with his family demanding all this private jet, luxury box shit ... they are just your average me-first family ... not sure why anyone would give a rats ass about penn state/joe pa's legacy ... fuck them both ...
Well, I think you may be taking this a bit to far. It's not like JoePa did nothing good in his life. Gave a lot of $ to the University. Made the U a lot of money that could be used to upgrade facilities, provide scholarships for Olympic sports, etc.
Not that any of that would excuse not protecting kids.
But celebrating people that are doing good things is not really the problem here. And the bottom line is, for me, it's ok if the fans, etc celebrated him and put him on a pedestal. The administration and board were the ones that aren't suppose to do that.
really ... as more information comes forth - I find it even more ludicrous how we put people on pedestals for all the wrong reasons in this world ... joe paterno was a football coach ... he wasn't some great human being ... this stuff coming out with his family demanding all this private jet, luxury box shit ... they are just your average me-first family ... not sure why anyone would give a rats ass about penn state/joe pa's legacy ... fuck them both ...
Well, 12 months ago his public perception was vastly different, to say the least. To say one year ago that Paterno should not have been on a public pedestal is to suggest no one ever should be. And I'd say it's fair to say that his pedestal has been removed by 95% of the public now that the truth is known.
I think all human beings have some fallacy's and inner demons, whether it be athletics, arts, leaders, and scientists. It's just most are not know to the public.
Except Nick Lidstrom ... he is the perfect human being.
Well, I think you may be taking this a bit to far. It's not like JoePa did nothing good in his life. Gave a lot of $ to the University. Made the U a lot of money that could be used to upgrade facilities, provide scholarships for Olympic sports, etc.
Not that any of that would excuse not protecting kids.
But celebrating people that are doing good things is not really the problem here. And the bottom line is, for me, it's ok if the fans, etc celebrated him and put him on a pedestal. The administration and board were the ones that aren't suppose to do that.
dude ... if you made $1 million a year coaching football with all the benefits of being the head coach of a football program - you would probably do a lot of good too ... you can pretty much take most celebrities and their pet charitable projects and put them under the same banner ... he is not better a man than most - in fact, his inaction on the child abuse victims and his role in allowing the abuse to continue make him less a man ... fuck joe paterno ... then knowing the shit is gonna hit the fan - his priority is to set himself and his family up for life ... that is not class there ...
I say shut it down as well. This goes far beyond and normal football related 'crimes'. Paying some kids to play football -- generating some fake grades..... not this was the protection of a monster or at least choosing to ignore something that had to be painfully obvious. We all heard Sandusky speak and saw his mannerisms and so if in 1998 there was some suspicion raised i am sure JoePa knew in his heart that this man was weird and something terrible was happening.
He didn't just do nothing about it either --- he enabled it to continue. And he wasn't alone -- he had help from everyone who was involved in making decisions for the school.
dude ... if you made $1 million a year coaching football with all the benefits of being the head coach of a football program - you would probably do a lot of good too ... you can pretty much take most celebrities and their pet charitable projects and put them under the same banner ... he is not better a man than most - in fact, his inaction on the child abuse victims and his role in allowing the abuse to continue make him less a man ... fuck joe paterno ... then knowing the shit is gonna hit the fan - his priority is to set himself and his family up for life ... that is not class there ...
I get your point.
I've read a bunch of the report. And it specifically includes JoePa in the horror of what happened. Yet, in the report it never specifically has any emails, etc. It seems to be using 1 meeting where Curley was going to notify the authorities and then changed his mind after a meeting with JoePa. Is there more?
As far as "setting up" his family. That's not hard to see why someone would want to do that. He knew he wasn't going to be around to deal with the mess and I'm sure he was worried about his family. Only natural.
His family is looking into a review of the report. Should be interesting to see what that has to say.
I say shut it down as well. This goes far beyond and normal football related 'crimes'. Paying some kids to play football -- generating some fake grades..... not this was the protection of a monster or at least choosing to ignore something that had to be painfully obvious. We all heard Sandusky speak and saw his mannerisms and so if in 1998 there was some suspicion raised i am sure JoePa knew in his heart that this man was weird and something terrible was happening.
He didn't just do nothing about it either --- he enabled it to continue. And he wasn't alone -- he had help from everyone who was involved in making decisions for the school.
it's a very sad chapter in American history
Shut it down
I guess maybe I don't know enough about the NCAA and what it can/can't do. But Penn State obviously didn;t gain any competitive advantage, so is this really there territory?
I've read a bunch of the report. And it specifically includes JoePa in the horror of what happened. Yet, in the report it never specifically has any emails, etc. It seems to be using 1 meeting where Curley was going to notify the authorities and then changed his mind after a meeting with JoePa. Is there more?
As far as "setting up" his family. That's not hard to see why someone would want to do that. He knew he wasn't going to be around to deal with the mess and I'm sure he was worried about his family. Only natural.
His family is looking into a review of the report. Should be interesting to see what that has to say.
i read a report that said there are emails that show joe pa agreeing with someone that it's best to not report it to authorities or something to that effect ...
the dude and his family are already well off ... luxury boxes and private planes!?? ... you consider that taking care of his family? ... the family only cares about his legacy and making money off his name ... they have shown very little sensitivity to what joe pa contributed to ... it's disgusting in my opinion ...
I've read a bunch of the report. And it specifically includes JoePa in the horror of what happened. Yet, in the report it never specifically has any emails, etc. It seems to be using 1 meeting where Curley was going to notify the authorities and then changed his mind after a meeting with JoePa. Is there more?
As far as "setting up" his family. That's not hard to see why someone would want to do that. He knew he wasn't going to be around to deal with the mess and I'm sure he was worried about his family. Only natural.
His family is looking into a review of the report. Should be interesting to see what that has to say.
i read a report that said there are emails that show joe pa agreeing with someone that it's best to not report it to authorities or something to that effect ...
the dude and his family are already well off ... luxury boxes and private planes!?? ... you consider that taking care of his family? ... the family only cares about his legacy and making money off his name ... they have shown very little sensitivity to what joe pa contributed to ... it's disgusting in my opinion ...
A luxury box is certainly not over the top. It's not like the alternative is a middle class box.
I say shut it down as well. This goes far beyond and normal football related 'crimes'. Paying some kids to play football -- generating some fake grades..... not this was the protection of a monster or at least choosing to ignore something that had to be painfully obvious. We all heard Sandusky speak and saw his mannerisms and so if in 1998 there was some suspicion raised i am sure JoePa knew in his heart that this man was weird and something terrible was happening.
He didn't just do nothing about it either --- he enabled it to continue. And he wasn't alone -- he had help from everyone who was involved in making decisions for the school.
it's a very sad chapter in American history
Shut it down
I guess maybe I don't know enough about the NCAA and what it can/can't do. But Penn State obviously didn;t gain any competitive advantage, so is this really there territory?
They received a competitive advantage by not reporting criminal acts. Not just Sandusky either. There were player issues that Paterno kept in house. The negative publicity would have hurt recruiting.
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http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/
I dont see what good comes out of ending the football program and essentially screwing a shitload of people who had nothing to do with the scandal. Are the people involved in the scandal all not removed from the program/school?
Do you just want to punish the school? What purpose does this serve?
None of the Board of Trustees have lost their positions, to date. Ultimately their lack of oversight was a huge factor in why things went on for as long as they did, and their bungling of the scandal's fall-out was inexcusable. It boggles my mind that nobody outside of PSU wants their heads on a platter...
I agree. So, let's not ever punish any program for anything they do. People might get hurt via punishment, so why bother?
Ah!!! I see where you are coming from.
Well, the report was commissioned by the Board, so that's a fair place to be cynical. However, for those that have read the report, it seems to be clear that Spanier, Paterno, et. al. conspired (by the legal term) to withhold information from the Board.
Now, whether individuals on the Board knew more than what they are letting on, well, let's continue the investigation if you like, and heads can roll there as well if there's proof of wrong doing. At this point, it is clear what they did wrong was not have better institutional control over the Football Program. Yet, somehow it's deemed too harsh by some to put that program to sleep b/c it might harm others. Nevermind the children's lives it destroyed. :?
I'm interested to see how the potential Clery Act Violations will be determined and if wrong doing was done what will happen to Federal Grant monies. It's interesting that even on that level, there's been opinion that the Feds should not do anything b/c jobs might be at stake. Obviously, that's all conjecture at this point as no proper legal determination has been made on that level. So, it is clearly much too early to say one way or the other what should or should not be done. I just find it fascinating that folks actually believe our laws should potentially be interpreted based on jobs, the economy, etc. The next drunk driver should be let off b/c he is the head of household and without him, his wife and kids won't have money to feed themselves. But, I digress. Way, way, way too early in THAT process.
Ok smartass. Yeah, the WRONG people will get hurt from this kind of punishment. How people dont see that is amazing to me. So you want to punish their young quarterback who had nothing to do with this, the guy who washes their uniforms, the linebacker coach, and the waterboy? Nice. honestly, why stop there? You might as well call to shut down the whole athletic program or the whole school. There are several people who you can pinpoint as the problem...why punish hundreds, if not thousands of people for something they had nothing to do with? Doesnt make any sense to me at all.
And I didnt know there were still people implicated that are on the board there. I say remove all the people who had ties to this scandal and let them play ball.
I doubt the punishment of innocent people will ever help the children's lives that have been affected by this scandal.
And you are 100% correct. None of this punishment makes the victims' lives any better. But, again, to be a wise ass, neither does jailing Sandusky. Sure it stops him from the NEXT crime he would have committed - oh, wait... I'm starting to see the parallel here.....
it's funny that i don't hear the same people asking the Archdiocese of every major American city to be shut down. the Catholic Church covered up way more abuse than penn st. should all those churches of those parishes where abuse took place and covered up have to stop saying mass?
Fine with me.
BTW, if folks want a "look back" punishment instead of the shut down the program, here's one proposal:
1) Wipe all association with the Four idiots from their University. Forfeit all wins, trophies, names wiped out of record books. Names and associations cannot be used in any University related way.
2) Pay back to the NCAA all revenues from the last 14 years of the football program. This includes, but is not limited to all donations made in relations to the football program the last 14 years (i.e. since the 1998 report was made to the head of the football program).
Is that acceptable or will that harm too many people? Of course, I don't see how any of that ensures that the program has in fact been wiped clean of its infection. But, how 'bout it? Does that work for you guys?
Huck said Sandusky has “done some wonderful things in his lifetime and we should try to help him ... We all make little mistakes in our lives.”
had a building named after her today
there is an awful lot of denial in happy valley...it's gonna take more than shutting down the football program to get this type of thinking out of there
Hey man, we can all have differing opinions. Thats fine. I quite understand punishments and how they work. I've heard of football programs shut down because of things directly related to the team that might affect their ability to play. But i've never heard of punishing a whole entire system because of the crimes of a man that isnt even a player. So, the hundreds of people that work on PSU football in administrative jobs should just go "find another job" I suppose too?
:? This makes absolutley no sense. It actually proves my point. Do you understand punishment? Yes, Sandusky is prevented from raping another child by his punishment. Killing a sports team does nothing except prevent people from jobs and make thousands of people have to readjust their lives because of the actions of a few. Unless you are suggesting that by killing the PSU football team, you are preventing possible further rapes in the locker room? (my turn to be a wise ass) Yup, I see what you want, to prevent future rapes in PSU = get rid of team! beware, more smartassery on the way...maybe we should shut down the grocery store where Ted Bundy worked too.
nope not at all. punish all in the court of law. that's where 98% of the punishment should take place. take paterno's name off any buildings and take the statue down. that is sufficient for me.
To the first part - USC lost scholarships because of the Reggie Bush thing. Everyone involved in the Reggie Bush thing (including Reggie himself who actually committed most of the actions on his own) were long gone. Where's the equity for the few football players that missed out? How did Reggie Bush effect them playing 8 years later?
Tatoos at Ohio State - how did that effect how they played? I'm really missing your lack of connection here.
Personally, if I had anything to do with the PSU football program, I'd have already been looking for a new job. But, that's just me. I've made job decisions based on the ethics of my superiors all my life.
To the latter - clearly hyperbole on my part. But, the point being - without the football program the crimes do not happen. The football program was the vehicle by which Paterno, Spanier, Curley all committed their crimes. It was the program they were protecting as the sole reason. It's not the same as Ted Bundy's store. It is the same as the Second Mile Foundation which HAS been shut down. It's the same as Madoff's Investment Company which HAS been shut down. There were folks with jobs at both those places that had nothing to do with the actual crimes committed.
How does a football program do anything exactly?
Second Mile was started by Sandusky - that's why it was shutdown.
Why stop at just the football program, shut the university down. It happened under the president's watch. I'm confused as to how or why you draw the line.
While child rape is obviously much worse in every way imaginable, you can't even begin to compare the two.
"little mistakes"?
I'd like to smack this dipshit, and then some.
Sadly, there are enough apologists and people to find excuses for pedophiles and those enabling pedophiles (which, for me, is the same thing) - even here. "'... Sandusky will put a black eye on everything,'' - maybe if all these enablers hadn't turned a blind eye for so long the 'black eye on everything' wouldn't be so bad. Nasty taste in everyone's mouth (well, not everyone) and lots of doubts and questions about how things are run in a lot of people's minds.
Well, I think you may be taking this a bit to far. It's not like JoePa did nothing good in his life. Gave a lot of $ to the University. Made the U a lot of money that could be used to upgrade facilities, provide scholarships for Olympic sports, etc.
Not that any of that would excuse not protecting kids.
But celebrating people that are doing good things is not really the problem here. And the bottom line is, for me, it's ok if the fans, etc celebrated him and put him on a pedestal. The administration and board were the ones that aren't suppose to do that.
I think all human beings have some fallacy's and inner demons, whether it be athletics, arts, leaders, and scientists. It's just most are not know to the public.
Except Nick Lidstrom ... he is the perfect human being.
dude ... if you made $1 million a year coaching football with all the benefits of being the head coach of a football program - you would probably do a lot of good too ... you can pretty much take most celebrities and their pet charitable projects and put them under the same banner ... he is not better a man than most - in fact, his inaction on the child abuse victims and his role in allowing the abuse to continue make him less a man ... fuck joe paterno ... then knowing the shit is gonna hit the fan - his priority is to set himself and his family up for life ... that is not class there ...
I say shut it down as well. This goes far beyond and normal football related 'crimes'. Paying some kids to play football -- generating some fake grades..... not this was the protection of a monster or at least choosing to ignore something that had to be painfully obvious. We all heard Sandusky speak and saw his mannerisms and so if in 1998 there was some suspicion raised i am sure JoePa knew in his heart that this man was weird and something terrible was happening.
He didn't just do nothing about it either --- he enabled it to continue. And he wasn't alone -- he had help from everyone who was involved in making decisions for the school.
it's a very sad chapter in American history
Shut it down
haha ... swedes are generally all class ... having just got back from sweden - i do emphasize generally ...
I get your point.
I've read a bunch of the report. And it specifically includes JoePa in the horror of what happened. Yet, in the report it never specifically has any emails, etc. It seems to be using 1 meeting where Curley was going to notify the authorities and then changed his mind after a meeting with JoePa. Is there more?
As far as "setting up" his family. That's not hard to see why someone would want to do that. He knew he wasn't going to be around to deal with the mess and I'm sure he was worried about his family. Only natural.
His family is looking into a review of the report. Should be interesting to see what that has to say.
I guess maybe I don't know enough about the NCAA and what it can/can't do. But Penn State obviously didn;t gain any competitive advantage, so is this really there territory?
i read a report that said there are emails that show joe pa agreeing with someone that it's best to not report it to authorities or something to that effect ...
the dude and his family are already well off ... luxury boxes and private planes!?? ... you consider that taking care of his family? ... the family only cares about his legacy and making money off his name ... they have shown very little sensitivity to what joe pa contributed to ... it's disgusting in my opinion ...
A luxury box is certainly not over the top. It's not like the alternative is a middle class box.
Now, private planes......
They received a competitive advantage by not reporting criminal acts. Not just Sandusky either. There were player issues that Paterno kept in house. The negative publicity would have hurt recruiting.