There is a huge difference between being 'transparent' and, should YOU wish to put your full name and address on a letter being sent to an individual, a department or an organisation where a limited number of people will have access to it; and putting this info out, together with your IP on the internet for ALL to have access to if they wish.
You are then putting yourself out and vulnerable to all sorts of cyber-crime. A dream for hackers, cyber stalkers, data gatherers. You are making yourself vulnerable to identity theft, open to ANYONE coming to your home, stalking, 'retaliating', etc. Is that what one wants? Nice.......
We (well most) teach our kids to use the internet responsibly - never give ANY personal info to anyone - be safe. What does this proposed law do? Tell them otherwise.
If one wants to focus on the cyber bullying bit (which again, we all know is not the purpose of this law but a little 'add-on' to sweeten the pill and appeal to pathos), it is already possible to track down the anonymous 'bullies' if a formal complaint is made. So no need for this law (which has enormous ramifications) to protect politicians.
Just want to quickly say this thread has been awesome, really learnt a lot from reading it.
I honestly started the thread with a really open mind...saw positives and negatives of both sides of the argument I guess...
Too many posters to mention individually, but I have so much respect for your combined knowledge and the way you have articulated your points...am now firmy and utterly convinced this proposed law is disgusting, and if any benefits came from it, they would be far far far outweighed by the negatives.
Thanks
Oh yeah my real name is Bindy wolfe, I am a three year old dog, the photo in the avatar is of me, just in case you think my post is an act of bullying, and that I wish to hide
me thinks you don't understand cyber bullying cause you would not joke
but you are very cute... Miss Lucy Lew would like you!
Am sorry you didnt understand my subtle message...it wasnt primarily an attempt at humour...but to make two points
1. How easy it would be for a bully to put up a false identity if they wished and
2. That bullying is subjective...a point cosmo made better than I could
And whilst really not wanting to defend myself...having raised four kids and having worked for over twenty years in the welfare industry with young people...I am pretty confident I have seen bullying from every angle and have a good understanding of it...as well as been subject to it myself...I just refuse to become a victim of it
"God created surfing and Pearl Jam so that the truely gifted, talented and most intelligent people wouldnt rule the world"...adapted from my bumper sticker
Just want to quickly say this thread has been awesome, really learnt a lot from reading it.
I honestly started the thread with a really open mind...saw positives and negatives of both sides of the argument I guess...
Too many posters to mention individually, but I have so much respect for your combined knowledge and the way you have articulated your points...am now firmy and utterly convinced this proposed law is disgusting, and if any benefits came from it, they would be far far far outweighed by the negatives.
Thanks
Oh yeah my real name is Bindy wolfe, I am a three year old dog, the photo in the avatar is of me, just in case you think my post is an act of bullying, and that I wish to hide
me thinks you don't understand cyber bullying cause you would not joke
but you are very cute... Miss Lucy Lew would like you!
Am sorry you didnt understand my subtle message...it wasnt primarily an attempt at humour...but to make two points
1. How easy it would be for a bully to put up a false identity if they wished and
2. That bullying is subjective...a point cosmo made better than I could
And whilst really not wanting to defend myself...having raised four kids and having worked for over twenty years in the welfare industry with young people...I am pretty confident I have seen bullying from every angle and have a good understanding of it...as well as been subject to it myself...I just refuse to become a victim of it
Do you need government intervention for this? I'm guessing not.....
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis. There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!
I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it
There is no restrictions...
say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.
It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in. No fear.
Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.
This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.
This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.
Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.
I thought about this last night.....this fear factor you speak of. You say you have no fear of putting your name or your address even your phone number, I commend your bravery for this proposed law. However, you might not have ANY FEAR but for the rest of society that might not be the case since this law would or could affect us greatly. SUCH as you are aware that with your address I can from an app look down on your house in actual real time. Track your movements from in or out of your house. Now if I can do that why in the world would I want something like this to occur and put this kind of power in the government's hands to do whatever they wish OVER potential offensive opinions/thoughts and WORDS to save cyber bullies?
Is this proposed law worth all that in how it will affect EVERYONE?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis. There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!
I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it
There is no restrictions... say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.
It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in. No fear.
Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.
This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.
This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.
Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.
I'm curious you speak of not writing/speaking on the internet in fear. However, It appears I've noticed you don't have your name up on the WHO IS ONLINE below, you appear to sign in as a GUEST, tell me is that out of some sort of FEAR?
Just an observation...what changed?
peace
no fears... so you think those not listed is cause of fear? ... hmmm...
that is recent and has to do with being banned :(
live and learn the ways and fear nothing and try to be kind
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis. There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!
I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it
There is no restrictions... say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.
It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in. No fear.
Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.
This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.
This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.
Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.
I'm curious you speak of not writing/speaking on the internet in fear. However, It appears I've noticed you don't have your name up on the WHO IS ONLINE below, you appear to sign in as a GUEST, tell me is that out of some sort of FEAR?
Just an observation...what changed?
peace
no fears... so you think those not listed is cause of fear? ... hmmm...
that is recent and has to do with being banned :(
live and learn the ways and fear nothing and try to be kind
Thank you for your answer...I always try to be kind...I'm also a gentleman UNTIL it's time to NOT be a gentleman.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis. There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!
I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it
There is no restrictions...
say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.
It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in. No fear.
Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.
This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.
This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.
Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.
I thought about this last night.....this fear factor you speak of. You say you have no fear of putting your name or your address even your phone number, I commend your bravery for this proposed law. However, you might not have ANY FEAR but for the rest of society that might not be the case since this law would or could affect us greatly. SUCH as you are aware that with your address I can from an app look down on your house in actual real time. Track your movements from in or out of your house. Now if I can do that why in the world would I want something like this to occur and put this kind of power in the government's hands to do whatever they wish OVER potential offensive opinions/thoughts and WORDS to save cyber bullies?
Is this proposed law worth all that in how it will affect EVERYONE?
Peace
Many here have my address... want a Christmas card?
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
Yes it effects everyone that means all are accountable...
the good the bad the worst of the worst.
This has been coming for sometime, too much shady, too many bullies, too much victimizing,
time to change the internet to be more like the real world, with that goes real life accountability
a face to face responsibility.
Anyone see that Bruce Willis sci fi movie where people don't leave their houses anymore
and drones take their place in the real world? It comes to mind here for some reason.
I recommend it.
I'm curious you speak of not writing/speaking on the internet in fear. However, It appears I've noticed you don't have your name up on the WHO IS ONLINE below, you appear to sign in as a GUEST, tell me is that out of some sort of FEAR?
Just an observation...what changed?
peace
no fears... so you think those not listed is cause of fear? ... hmmm...
that is recent and has to do with being banned :(
live and learn the ways and fear nothing and try to be kind
Thank you for your answer...I always try to be kind...I'm also a gentleman UNTIL it's time to NOT be a gentleman.
Peace
I would consider you always a gentleman, a 10 on the scale of good manners
but then I don't really know you, do I?
So let's say you sahre something on a forum like a personal story you only shared because you were anonymous or a political belief that may not be popular in the current political environment. You post on that forum often enough that other posters are familiar with your username and remember what you shared. A month later, you reply to a political post and say, "Senator X cares more about Industry Y than he cares about his constituents." Someone on Senator X's staff happens to read that forum and reports your "mean-spirited" post to him and you are forced to reveal your real identity on that forum even tough the Senator's actions indicate that your opinion has some merit. All you've done is share an honest opinion about someone and now you are being forced to reveal your identity to people you don't want knowing it and you've previously shared a personal experience with them solely because you had anonymity. You've now been stripped of your privacy (something the Constitution guarantees you, by the way) over your opinion.
What would you say about a situation like this: someone in a group such as AA or NA only shares his first name with the group when sharing his personal stories. During a conversation with some of the group members after the meeting, he says, "I think Obama's the worst President in history. He's a liar and a jerk." Should he then be reported to the government and forced to tell the group his full name because he said something "mean" about the President in a public building? If not, why? What's the difference between that meeting and an online forum? Is it the size of the group? That shouldn't matter because you don't know if someone else in the group supports Obama or even volunteered for the Democratic Party during the campaign. Is it because someone in AA has the expectation of anonymity and privacy? I have that same expectation when I log in to an online forum.
...
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
...
if the govt can already find us then what thehell point is this new legislation. according to you they already have that capability. so... basically what youre saying is there is NO ANONYMITY on the internet anyway.
and i will ask again cause you seem to have difficulty answering my questions.. why i do not know.
how do we police this known identity thing? how will those who propose this legislation actually verify IDs? will there be some sort of card well have to scan in order to gain access to the internet? or will they rely on our honesty in saying who we are? how will they know i am/not lisa simpson of 742 evergreen terrace springfield?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Just want to quickly say this thread has been awesome, really learnt a lot from reading it.
I honestly started the thread with a really open mind...saw positives and negatives of both sides of the argument I guess...
Too many posters to mention individually, but I have so much respect for your combined knowledge and the way you have articulated your points...am now firmy and utterly convinced this proposed law is disgusting, and if any benefits came from it, they would be far far far outweighed by the negatives.
Thanks
Oh yeah my real name is Bindy wolfe, I am a three year old dog, the photo in the avatar is of me, just in case you think my post is an act of bullying, and that I wish to hide
me thinks you don't understand cyber bullying cause you would not joke
but you are very cute... Miss Lucy Lew would like you!
Am sorry you didnt understand my subtle message...it wasnt primarily an attempt at humour...but to make two points
1. How easy it would be for a bully to put up a false identity if they wished and
2. That bullying is subjective...a point cosmo made better than I could
And whilst really not wanting to defend myself...having raised four kids and having worked for over twenty years in the welfare industry with young people...I am pretty confident I have seen bullying from every angle and have a good understanding of it...as well as been subject to it myself...I just refuse to become a victim of it
It sounded like a joke because we know your post was not bullying...
right?
Easy now to hide not so easy someday ... hot dog!
Subjective really? We are speaking of lies, blatant lies to hurt others.
Nothing subjective about that.
I'm sure you have taught your children honesty and to be kind and respectful to others,
not all have learned this though.
And good for you that you will not feel bullying. This can not be said for many suffering.
I guess it's just too bad for them then huh :?
I prefer to help those people, to make offenders accountable for what they do to others.
To bring laws to help victims. I will never side with an abuser and I think
those proposing this law feel the same.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis. There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!
I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it
There is no restrictions...
say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.
It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in. No fear.
Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.
This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.
This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.
Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.
I thought about this last night.....this fear factor you speak of. You say you have no fear of putting your name or your address even your phone number, I commend your bravery for this proposed law. However, you might not have ANY FEAR but for the rest of society that might not be the case since this law would or could affect us greatly. SUCH as you are aware that with your address I can from an app look down on your house in actual real time. Track your movements from in or out of your house. Now if I can do that why in the world would I want something like this to occur and put this kind of power in the government's hands to do whatever they wish OVER potential offensive opinions/thoughts and WORDS to save cyber bullies?
Is this proposed law worth all that in how it will affect EVERYONE?
Peace
Many here have my address... want a Christmas card?
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
Yes it effects everyone that means all are accountable...
the good the bad the worst of the worst.
This has been coming for sometime, too much shady, too many bullies, too much victimizing,
time to change the internet to be more like the real world, with that goes real life accountability
a face to face responsibility.
Anyone see that Bruce Willis sci fi movie where people don't leave their houses anymore
and drones take their place in the real world? It comes to mind here for some reason.
I recommend it.
No thank you on the Christmas card but if you would like for winter some Florida Honeybell oranges then give it up.
I never said the government doesn't know who I am or where I already live. What I did say or suggested was to why give them even MORE power through this ridiculous proposal of a law to be.
You can be accountable and responsible ALL you want...this propose law isn't going to change or detour any kind of cyber bullying it just won't.
If anyone wants to stay locked up in your house well that's their choice I'm pretty sure they are quite happy there. I Just hope they remember to TURN OFF that computer it will certainly help for sure to cut down on the cyber bullying.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Many here have my address... want a Christmas card?
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
Yes it effects everyone that means all are accountable...
the good the bad the worst of the worst.
This has been coming for sometime, too much shady, too many bullies, too much victimizing,
time to change the internet to be more like the real world, with that goes real life accountability
a face to face responsibility.
Anyone see that Bruce Willis sci fi movie where people don't leave their houses anymore
and drones take their place in the real world? It comes to mind here for some reason.
I recommend it.
No thank you on the Christmas card but if you would like for winter some Florida Honeybell oranges then give it up.
I never said the government doesn't know who I am or where I already live. What I did say or suggested was to why give them even MORE power through this ridiculous proposal of a law to be.
You can be accountable and responsible ALL you want...this propose law isn't going to change or detour any kind of cyber bullying it just won't.
If anyone wants to stay locked up in your house well that's their choice I'm pretty sure they are quite happy there. I Just hope they remember to TURN OFF that computer it will certainly help for sure to cut down on the cyber bullying.
Peace
The govt won't have more power we will :?
That has been a recurring answer in this thread ...
that people should turn off their computers.
Why should they have to when they are not the offenders?
They have done nothing wrong.
I can only think people who say this have not researched
nor experienced it first hand what the victims are going through.
I prefer to take the power away from ones offending,
take away their anonymous hiding place ... playground.
This proposal will work one day and yes the internet will be more like the real world
where people are held accountable for what they choose to do.
It is inevitable, a matter of time. And I feel once the fear of change is over
everybody may really like it!
They will be honest and be themselves like in real life
and cyber bullying will be a thing of the past.
A kinder gentler world.
how? what is this more power you speak of? knowing where someone lives and what their name is gives us more power? how? i could know where you live live pandora and itd give me no more power than i already have.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how? what is this more power you speak of? knowing where someone lives and what their name is gives us more power? how? i could know where you live live pandora and itd give me no more power than i already have.
I guess it gives us the power to retaliate, but I don't see that as a positive outcome. Making physical violence easier sounds like a bad idea to me.
Many here have my address... want a Christmas card?
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
Yes it effects everyone that means all are accountable...
the good the bad the worst of the worst.
This has been coming for sometime, too much shady, too many bullies, too much victimizing,
time to change the internet to be more like the real world, with that goes real life accountability
a face to face responsibility.
Anyone see that Bruce Willis sci fi movie where people don't leave their houses anymore
and drones take their place in the real world? It comes to mind here for some reason.
I recommend it.
No thank you on the Christmas card but if you would like for winter some Florida Honeybell oranges then give it up.
I never said the government doesn't know who I am or where I already live. What I did say or suggested was to why give them even MORE power through this ridiculous proposal of a law to be.
You can be accountable and responsible ALL you want...this propose law isn't going to change or detour any kind of cyber bullying it just won't.
If anyone wants to stay locked up in your house well that's their choice I'm pretty sure they are quite happy there. I Just hope they remember to TURN OFF that computer it will certainly help for sure to cut down on the cyber bullying.
Peace
The govt won't have more power we will :?
That has been a recurring answer in this thread ...
that people should turn off their computers.
Why should they have to when they are not the offenders?
They have done nothing wrong.
I can only think people who say this have not researched
nor experienced it first hand what the victims are going through.
I prefer to take the power away from ones offending,
take away their anonymous hiding place ... playground.
This proposal will work one day and yes the internet will be more like the real world
where people are held accountable for what they choose to do.
It is inevitable, a matter of time. And I feel once the fear of change is over
everybody may really like it!
They will be honest and be themselves like in real life
and cyber bullying will be a thing of the past.
A kinder gentler world.
What was the line in that Matrix movie about the.....The PILL..Red Or Blue about not having control and whether one is in the REAL world or NOT.
Even IF you think we the people will have more it's a slippery slope if this hideous proposal is implemented. I say turn off the computers because I know for sure that can curtail cyber bulling this propol will not get the job done sufficiently enough.
If this proposal is implemented it may on a lottery's chance solve your issue of cyber bulling BUT you will be opening up another whole can of worms this country will not come back from. Good luck you may hit the lottery.
There's as much chance as having murders, rapes, domestic violence a thing of the past through our current laws as this proposal will have in bringing forth a kinder gentler world. God luck the odds are about
170 million-1.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
When all are accountable that is power to the people.
The good the bad the worst of the worst... ALL
This includes a rat politician too.
we are accountable already. i hold everyone accountable for their words regardless of whether i know their real name or not. and i hold myself accountable for my own words as well. knowing your real name and where you live or people knowing my address and real name isnt going to change that.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I do not think speaking about, or asking for advice, with god knows who about personal topics,
like abuse and one's sexuality belongs in an anonymous environment
simply because people are not who they say they are. We all know this. Here there everywhere.
If a victim has no trusted family or friends
seek out help groups which are available in everyone's community
that is a much better option.
There, face to face eye to eye, one recieves honesty and true caring
and real life solutions most often given by survivors or trained professional.
Oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about reality here.
Can you explain please? kindly of course....
Just meant that in the real world people just DON'T seek out the help you're talking about specifically because it's not anonymous. A lot of people can't and don't want to face people with issues like that, and a lot more people can't afford trained professionals. Plus, it's not just people with emotional issues that should be protected from exposure.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Just meant that in the real world people just DON'T seek out the help you're talking about specifically because it's not anonymous. A lot of people can't and don't want to face people with issues like that, and a lot more people can't afford trained professionals. Plus, it's not just people with emotional issues that should be protected from exposure.
Well guess they will have to seek real help not pretend help when the internet is no longer anonymous.
Real help has real solutions from real people that make a difference.
There are still anonymous ways to do this face to face.
Best to get help where you know for sure it is coming.
As I mentioned many websites have live chat
with professionals and other resources to guide those who need it.
I think of the young who think they are speaking to another young person about their sexuality
and it is really a 60 year old pervert getting their jollies. This is a negative to anonymity.
Just meant that in the real world people just DON'T seek out the help you're talking about specifically because it's not anonymous. A lot of people can't and don't want to face people with issues like that, and a lot more people can't afford trained professionals. Plus, it's not just people with emotional issues that should be protected from exposure.
Well guess they will have to seek real help not pretend help when the internet is no longer anonymous.
Real help has real solutions from real people that make a difference.
There are still anonymous ways to do this face to face.
Best to get help where you know for sure it is coming.
As I mentioned many websites have live chat
with professionals and other resources to guide those who need it.
I think of the young who think they are speaking to another young person about their sexuality
and it is really a 60 year old pervert getting their jollies. This is a negative to anonymity.
The internet isn't "pretend help". Millions of people have found REAL help online for so many things. But as I and others have also mentioned, there are many many reasons why anonymity can be important, this topic is not limited to these kinds of scenarios. Plus no one, especially not one person on a PJ forum, can say what kind of help might be best for individuals or what might be available to people.
I think your view of this issue is very limited. Sorry.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well guess they will have to seek real help not pretend help when the internet is no longer anonymous.
Real help has real solutions from real people that make a difference.
There are still anonymous ways to do this face to face.
Best to get help where you know for sure it is coming.
As I mentioned many websites have live chat
with professionals and other resources to guide those who need it.
I think of the young who think they are speaking to another young person about their sexuality
and it is really a 60 year old pervert getting their jollies. This is a negative to anonymity.
What's wrong with anonymous help from someone online who has experienced the same problem or is also experiencing it now? Isn't that what groups like Alcoholics Anonymous are for? For some people that works, for some it doesn't. The same can be said for professional help. Some people go into rehab and fall right back into their old habits when they get out, others stay clean for the rest of their lives. And the families and friends of those people might just find a similar group of people online with whom they can share experiences and it's much more helpful to them than sitting in a room of people from their own community because they don't want their neighbors, co-workers, etc. knowing their family's personal business.
Well guess they will have to seek real help not pretend help when the internet is no longer anonymous.
Real help has real solutions from real people that make a difference.
There are still anonymous ways to do this face to face.
Best to get help where you know for sure it is coming.
As I mentioned many websites have live chat
with professionals and other resources to guide those who need it.
I think of the young who think they are speaking to another young person about their sexuality
and it is really a 60 year old pervert getting their jollies. This is a negative to anonymity.
ummm...who are you to be telling people where and how they should get their help? why do we constantly have to tell others the best way to live their lives when we are all messes in our own way.
but for the sake of moving on. You are right. Bullying on the internet will cease to exist. Anyone want to schedule a memorial service to commemorate the killing of internet bullies by the government?
this is like fire bombing an entire village to kill 3 people in it. So i guess it makes sense a gov't would want to act this way.
sorry that was a little sarcasm I shall take my punishment
Michael Pegg
1060 West Addison St
Chicago, IL 60613
IP Address 5.80.0.8 <-- best viewed upside down
I have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it is dark and I am wearing sunglasses...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
...
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
...
if the govt can already find us then what thehell point is this new legislation. according to you they already have that capability. so... basically what youre saying is there is NO ANONYMITY on the internet anyway.
We all know how far the tentacles of the government reach if they so wish - no naivety from people here. This could just give this capability some 'legitimacy'. With this bill, of equal or even more concern is the 'lay person' and the 'techies' - or even the likes of insurance companies, etc. - who can use this info to their advantage (as mentioned in several previous posts) and to your MAJOR disadvantage, potentially causing you misery, harm, etc.
The government is a 'known'. Others 'out there' are not and you make yourself 'available' to them.
I have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it is dark and I am wearing sunglasses...
Have you got a bottle of wine open? I'm coming..... assuming this is your real address! Ah.. but then with this law, we will all put our real names and addresses and not go via any proxy for IPs - forgot we are so honest.
...
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
...
if the govt can already find us then what thehell point is this new legislation. according to you they already have that capability. so... basically what youre saying is there is NO ANONYMITY on the internet anyway.
We all know how far the tentacles of the government reach if they so wish - no naivety from people here. This could just give this capability some 'legitimacy'. With this bill, of equal or even more concern is the 'lay person' and the 'techies' - or even the likes of insurance companies, etc. - who can use this info to their advantage (as mentioned in several previous posts) and to your MAJOR disadvantage, potentially causing you misery, harm, etc.
The government is a 'known'. Others 'out there' are not and you make yourself 'available' to them.
we are in agreeance.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Seems we are. And whilst we are being open and honest and transparent, my name is not really redrock and I am not visible on the 'who's online' and I value my privacy and people don't need to know when I'm online or not! There... I said it....
Seems we are. And whilst we are being open and honest and transparent, my name is not really redrock and I am not visible on the 'who's online' and I value my privacy and people don't need to know when I'm online or not! There... I said it....
tell me something i dont know.
p.s. i like to watch thats why im not visible.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh and while im thinking of it.. whats with that capacity to be able to see what those online here are doing? isnt it enough that theyre online.. we gotta know what theyre doing too??? :think:
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
You are then putting yourself out and vulnerable to all sorts of cyber-crime. A dream for hackers, cyber stalkers, data gatherers. You are making yourself vulnerable to identity theft, open to ANYONE coming to your home, stalking, 'retaliating', etc. Is that what one wants? Nice.......
We (well most) teach our kids to use the internet responsibly - never give ANY personal info to anyone - be safe. What does this proposed law do? Tell them otherwise.
If one wants to focus on the cyber bullying bit (which again, we all know is not the purpose of this law but a little 'add-on' to sweeten the pill and appeal to pathos), it is already possible to track down the anonymous 'bullies' if a formal complaint is made. So no need for this law (which has enormous ramifications) to protect politicians.
Am sorry you didnt understand my subtle message...it wasnt primarily an attempt at humour...but to make two points
1. How easy it would be for a bully to put up a false identity if they wished and
2. That bullying is subjective...a point cosmo made better than I could
And whilst really not wanting to defend myself...having raised four kids and having worked for over twenty years in the welfare industry with young people...I am pretty confident I have seen bullying from every angle and have a good understanding of it...as well as been subject to it myself...I just refuse to become a victim of it
Do you need government intervention for this? I'm guessing not.....
I thought about this last night.....this fear factor you speak of. You say you have no fear of putting your name or your address even your phone number, I commend your bravery for this proposed law. However, you might not have ANY FEAR but for the rest of society that might not be the case since this law would or could affect us greatly. SUCH as you are aware that with your address I can from an app look down on your house in actual real time. Track your movements from in or out of your house. Now if I can do that why in the world would I want something like this to occur and put this kind of power in the government's hands to do whatever they wish OVER potential offensive opinions/thoughts and WORDS to save cyber bullies?
Is this proposed law worth all that in how it will affect EVERYONE?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
that is recent and has to do with being banned :(
live and learn the ways and fear nothing and try to be kind
Thank you for your answer...I always try to be kind...I'm also a gentleman UNTIL it's time to NOT be a gentleman.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
So you think the govt doesn't know who you are? or can find you?
that might be considered naive.
Yes it effects everyone that means all are accountable...
the good the bad the worst of the worst.
This has been coming for sometime, too much shady, too many bullies, too much victimizing,
time to change the internet to be more like the real world, with that goes real life accountability
a face to face responsibility.
Anyone see that Bruce Willis sci fi movie where people don't leave their houses anymore
and drones take their place in the real world? It comes to mind here for some reason.
I recommend it.
but then I don't really know you, do I?
What would you say about a situation like this: someone in a group such as AA or NA only shares his first name with the group when sharing his personal stories. During a conversation with some of the group members after the meeting, he says, "I think Obama's the worst President in history. He's a liar and a jerk." Should he then be reported to the government and forced to tell the group his full name because he said something "mean" about the President in a public building? If not, why? What's the difference between that meeting and an online forum? Is it the size of the group? That shouldn't matter because you don't know if someone else in the group supports Obama or even volunteered for the Democratic Party during the campaign. Is it because someone in AA has the expectation of anonymity and privacy? I have that same expectation when I log in to an online forum.
if the govt can already find us then what thehell point is this new legislation. according to you they already have that capability. so... basically what youre saying is there is NO ANONYMITY on the internet anyway.
and i will ask again cause you seem to have difficulty answering my questions.. why i do not know.
how do we police this known identity thing? how will those who propose this legislation actually verify IDs? will there be some sort of card well have to scan in order to gain access to the internet? or will they rely on our honesty in saying who we are? how will they know i am/not lisa simpson of 742 evergreen terrace springfield?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
right?
Easy now to hide not so easy someday ... hot dog!
Subjective really? We are speaking of lies, blatant lies to hurt others.
Nothing subjective about that.
I'm sure you have taught your children honesty and to be kind and respectful to others,
not all have learned this though.
And good for you that you will not feel bullying. This can not be said for many suffering.
I guess it's just too bad for them then huh :?
I prefer to help those people, to make offenders accountable for what they do to others.
To bring laws to help victims. I will never side with an abuser and I think
those proposing this law feel the same.
No thank you on the Christmas card but if you would like for winter some Florida Honeybell oranges then give it up.
I never said the government doesn't know who I am or where I already live. What I did say or suggested was to why give them even MORE power through this ridiculous proposal of a law to be.
You can be accountable and responsible ALL you want...this propose law isn't going to change or detour any kind of cyber bullying it just won't.
If anyone wants to stay locked up in your house well that's their choice I'm pretty sure they are quite happy there. I Just hope they remember to TURN OFF that computer it will certainly help for sure to cut down on the cyber bullying.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
The govt won't have more power we will :?
That has been a recurring answer in this thread ...
that people should turn off their computers.
Why should they have to when they are not the offenders?
They have done nothing wrong.
I can only think people who say this have not researched
nor experienced it first hand what the victims are going through.
I prefer to take the power away from ones offending,
take away their anonymous hiding place ... playground.
This proposal will work one day and yes the internet will be more like the real world
where people are held accountable for what they choose to do.
It is inevitable, a matter of time. And I feel once the fear of change is over
everybody may really like it!
They will be honest and be themselves like in real life
and cyber bullying will be a thing of the past.
A kinder gentler world.
how? what is this more power you speak of? knowing where someone lives and what their name is gives us more power? how? i could know where you live live pandora and itd give me no more power than i already have.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I guess it gives us the power to retaliate, but I don't see that as a positive outcome. Making physical violence easier sounds like a bad idea to me.
The good the bad the worst of the worst... ALL
This includes a rat politician too.
What was the line in that Matrix movie about the.....The PILL..Red Or Blue about not having control and whether one is in the REAL world or NOT.
Even IF you think we the people will have more it's a slippery slope if this hideous proposal is implemented. I say turn off the computers because I know for sure that can curtail cyber bulling this propol will not get the job done sufficiently enough.
If this proposal is implemented it may on a lottery's chance solve your issue of cyber bulling BUT you will be opening up another whole can of worms this country will not come back from. Good luck you may hit the lottery.
There's as much chance as having murders, rapes, domestic violence a thing of the past through our current laws as this proposal will have in bringing forth a kinder gentler world. God luck the odds are about
170 million-1.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
we are accountable already. i hold everyone accountable for their words regardless of whether i know their real name or not. and i hold myself accountable for my own words as well. knowing your real name and where you live or people knowing my address and real name isnt going to change that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Real help has real solutions from real people that make a difference.
There are still anonymous ways to do this face to face.
Best to get help where you know for sure it is coming.
As I mentioned many websites have live chat
with professionals and other resources to guide those who need it.
I think of the young who think they are speaking to another young person about their sexuality
and it is really a 60 year old pervert getting their jollies. This is a negative to anonymity.
I think your view of this issue is very limited. Sorry.
What's wrong with anonymous help from someone online who has experienced the same problem or is also experiencing it now? Isn't that what groups like Alcoholics Anonymous are for? For some people that works, for some it doesn't. The same can be said for professional help. Some people go into rehab and fall right back into their old habits when they get out, others stay clean for the rest of their lives. And the families and friends of those people might just find a similar group of people online with whom they can share experiences and it's much more helpful to them than sitting in a room of people from their own community because they don't want their neighbors, co-workers, etc. knowing their family's personal business.
ummm...who are you to be telling people where and how they should get their help? why do we constantly have to tell others the best way to live their lives when we are all messes in our own way.
but for the sake of moving on. You are right. Bullying on the internet will cease to exist. Anyone want to schedule a memorial service to commemorate the killing of internet bullies by the government?
this is like fire bombing an entire village to kill 3 people in it. So i guess it makes sense a gov't would want to act this way.
sorry that was a little sarcasm I shall take my punishment
Michael Pegg
1060 West Addison St
Chicago, IL 60613
IP Address 5.80.0.8 <-- best viewed upside down
I have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it is dark and I am wearing sunglasses...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
We all know how far the tentacles of the government reach if they so wish - no naivety from people here. This could just give this capability some 'legitimacy'. With this bill, of equal or even more concern is the 'lay person' and the 'techies' - or even the likes of insurance companies, etc. - who can use this info to their advantage (as mentioned in several previous posts) and to your MAJOR disadvantage, potentially causing you misery, harm, etc.
The government is a 'known'. Others 'out there' are not and you make yourself 'available' to them.
Have you got a bottle of wine open? I'm coming..... assuming this is your real address! Ah.. but then with this law, we will all put our real names and addresses and not go via any proxy for IPs - forgot we are so honest.
we are in agreeance.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Seems we are. And whilst we are being open and honest and transparent, my name is not really redrock and I am not visible on the 'who's online' and I value my privacy and people don't need to know when I'm online or not! There... I said it....
tell me something i dont know.
p.s. i like to watch thats why im not visible.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say