Ban 'anonymous' speech online?

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Comments

  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    pandora wrote:
    All I can say is your example "Senator So-and-so is a lying piece of garbage" this poster
    should lose the argument. It is insulting, rash, rude, without proof and sounds extremely bias.
    In fact could it be libel or slander if no proof was offered? Should be. And what if this
    Senator is a great person doing great things and someone is just bashing?

    The way I see the proposal is people will be very sure of facts, they won't go off half cocked,
    they will think about what they say for the value that it is because they must own it.
    I also see it protecting children because no one will be anonymous.

    Again I see great benefit and the positives that will come. You see the negatives.
    We won't agree but maybe we can both hope a proposal to be found that better suits everyone.

    There will never be a proposal in this circumstance that will suit everyone... not in my opinion. The way you treat it is you don't treat it. Leave well enough alone... If it bothers you so much then don't have your children on the internet until they can learn to make the choice as to what is fact and what is fiction. Anonymous or not, it would make no difference. If they can't tell the difference then maybe your child isn't ready to handle it. Nobody is forcing them to be on the web. You, as a parent, can certainly turn the computer off anytime you wish or shut off your internet. All it takes is a call to the internet provider. Many people choose to stay anonymous so they can at least attempt to cover their tracks, not necessarily because they want to intentionally harass someone. Most of these people that post anonymously are speaking out against the government... I interact with them on a daily basis... mainly through Twitter
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Just like we have other laws for ignorant people
    we need those to command common courtesy, honesty and decency and rid
    the internet of cyber bullies.

    By removing anonymous, making people accountable for the damage their words cause,
    they will be less likely to hurt others.

    If you can not own your words and stand behind them with your identity...
    don't say them.


    Alternatively, if somebody can't take criticism without feeling 'victimized', causing them to report other posters to the moderators every time they say something that that person doesn't like (causing thread after thread to get locked and people to get bans and warnings), then maybe that person shouldn't post in message board forums in the first place.
    Nobody forces anyone else to post messages on the internet and engage in debates, or arguments, of any kind.
    If someone is incapable of receiving the odd critical, or even abusive, comment, then they can simply choose an alternative way to spend their time.
    Unless of course their intention isn't to engage in discussion in the first place, but simply to preach and condescend.

    AS far as protecting children keep them away from the internet or just monitor the sites they say they visit.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    All I can say is your example "Senator So-and-so is a lying piece of garbage" this poster
    should lose the argument. It is insulting, rash, rude, without proof and sounds extremely bias.
    In fact could it be libel or slander if no proof was offered? Should be. And what if this
    Senator is a great person doing great things and someone is just bashing?

    The way I see the proposal is people will be very sure of facts, they won't go off half cocked,
    they will think about what they say for the value that it is because they must own it.
    I also see it protecting children because no one will be anonymous.

    Again I see great benefit and the positives that will come. You see the negatives.
    We won't agree but maybe we can both hope a proposal to be found that better suits everyone.

    There will never be a proposal in this circumstance that will suit everyone... not in my opinion. The way you treat it is you don't treat it. Leave well enough alone... If it bothers you so much then don't have your children on the internet until they can learn to make the choice as to what is fact and what is fiction. Anonymous or not, it would make no difference. If they can't tell the difference then maybe your child isn't ready to handle it. Nobody is forcing them to be on the web. You, as a parent, can certainly turn the computer off anytime you wish or shut off your internet. All it takes is a call to the internet provider. Many people choose to stay anonymous so they can at least attempt to cover their tracks, not necessarily because they want to intentionally harass someone. Most of these people that post anonymously are speaking out against the government... I interact with them on a daily basis... mainly through Twitter
    I think my kids are older than you ;)

    Never is a long time, I think a proposal, a law can be made to rid the internet
    of it's anonymous environment and protect everyone from any back lash
    that comes with honesty.

    In a perfect world all parents would monitor their children
    and they would not be victims to cyber bullies....
    not the case.
    It's on the rise, it is dangerous to everyone.

    Speaking out against the government is monitored already, this proposal is to keep others
    from mean spirited lies and bullying something we don't need in our society.
    What we need is honesty and accountability.
    We expect that from our govt ....
    shouldn't we have to live it too?
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    g under p wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Just like we have other laws for ignorant people
    we need those to command common courtesy, honesty and decency and rid
    the internet of cyber bullies.

    By removing anonymous, making people accountable for the damage their words cause,
    they will be less likely to hurt others.

    If you can not own your words and stand behind them with your identity...
    don't say them.


    Alternatively, if somebody can't take criticism without feeling 'victimized', causing them to report other posters to the moderators every time they say something that that person doesn't like (causing thread after thread to get locked and people to get bans and warnings), then maybe that person shouldn't post in message board forums in the first place.
    Nobody forces anyone else to post messages on the internet and engage in debates, or arguments, of any kind.
    If someone is incapable of receiving the odd critical, or even abusive, comment, then they can simply choose an alternative way to spend their time.
    Unless of course their intention isn't to engage in discussion in the first place, but simply to preach and condescend.

    AS far as protecting children keep them away from the internet or just monitor the sites they say they visit.

    Peace
    Too little ... I've done some research as to the victims of cyber bullies...
    not pretty. They are in a living hell. No one should be allowed to do this randomly
    or otherwise.
    Removing the anonymous shield bullies have will make a big dent.
    It will also help children to learn to be honest and responsible in their words...
    that words indeed hurt and effect others and blatant lies are even worse.
    I vote for a society that is accountable to one another, that cares for each other
    and works together not against.
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    pandora wrote:
    I think my kids are older than you ;)

    Never is a long time, I think a proposal, a law can be made to rid the internet
    of it's anonymous environment and protect everyone from any back lash
    that comes with honesty.

    In a perfect world all parents would monitor their children
    and they would not be victims to cyber bullies....
    not the case.
    It's on the rise, it is dangerous to everyone.

    Speaking out against the government is monitored already, this proposal is to keep others
    from mean spirited lies and bullying something we don't need in our society.
    What we need is honesty and accountability.
    We expect that from our govt ....
    shouldn't we have to live it too?

    Your kids are probably older than me, I was obviously being hypothetical. Parents should pay attention to their children, if they don't then that is their fault. No need for the government to intervene to help ignorant parents... That's my thought, I still don't buy your (as I see it) weak appeal to Pathos. That's just not the job of the government to me. If these mean bullies were simply ignored then they would go away... there would be no food to feed the troll... it would die of starvation. I certainly don't want the government to bully me and that is why I simply do not vote for people that wish to impose their morals upon me. That in itself is an act of bullying
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    I certainly don't want the government to bully me and that is why I simply do not vote for people that wish to impose their morals upon me. That in itself is an act of bullying
    This cuts to the bone what the issue is.

    I think you've mentioned in other posts that you're what, 19 or 20? That up there - among other posts of yours - shows me (in a really nice and humbling and uplifting way) that wisdom isn't precipitated only by age/experience, but sometimes...is just there, in spirit and outlook.
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    hedonist wrote:
    I certainly don't want the government to bully me and that is why I simply do not vote for people that wish to impose their morals upon me. That in itself is an act of bullying
    This cuts to the bone what the issue is.

    I think you've mentioned in other posts that you're what, 19 or 20? That up there - among other posts of yours - shows me (in a really nice and humbling and uplifting way) that wisdom isn't precipitated only by age/experience, but sometimes...is just there, in spirit and outlook.

    :thumbup:
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    hedonist wrote:
    I certainly don't want the government to bully me and that is why I simply do not vote for people that wish to impose their morals upon me. That in itself is an act of bullying
    This cuts to the bone what the issue is.

    I think you've mentioned in other posts that you're what, 19 or 20? That up there - among other posts of yours - shows me (in a really nice and humbling and uplifting way) that wisdom isn't precipitated only by age/experience, but sometimes...is just there, in spirit and outlook.

    Ah, thanks very much
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    I think my kids are older than you ;)

    Never is a long time, I think a proposal, a law can be made to rid the internet
    of it's anonymous environment and protect everyone from any back lash
    that comes with honesty.

    In a perfect world all parents would monitor their children
    and they would not be victims to cyber bullies....
    not the case.
    It's on the rise, it is dangerous to everyone.

    Speaking out against the government is monitored already, this proposal is to keep others
    from mean spirited lies and bullying something we don't need in our society.
    What we need is honesty and accountability.
    We expect that from our govt ....
    shouldn't we have to live it too?

    Your kids are probably older than me, I was obviously being hypothetical. Parents should pay attention to their children, if they don't then that is their fault. No need for the government to intervene to help ignorant parents... That's my thought, I still don't buy your (as I see it) weak appeal to Pathos. That's just not the job of the government to me. If these mean bullies were simply ignored then they would go away... there would be no food to feed the troll... it would die of starvation. I certainly don't want the government to bully me and that is why I simply do not vote for people that wish to impose their morals upon me. That in itself is an act of bullying
    I think many can not ignore when lies are being said nor should they have to.
    It is more than disruptive, it is disturbing to one's life.
    It is pure and simple injustice and the reaction for many is to hide and succumb,
    what a bully wants.

    Many laws are based in morality ... how about murder? rape? assault?
    these are all physical abuse but there is emotional abuse that is just as
    damaging to a life, we see this in personal relationships and the damage done.

    I think it wise for people to research and read what is happening to others
    out there who are being bullied.

    I stick up for the victims.
    They have a right to live their life without being a victim.
    I rarely have a heart for the abuser. They are cowards, weak...
    the psychological profile of these people is also a very good read.

    The bullies need to go, remove the shield of anonymity ...
    we then remove their weapons ...
    hateful words.
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    pandora wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I think my kids are older than you ;)

    Never is a long time, I think a proposal, a law can be made to rid the internet
    of it's anonymous environment and protect everyone from any back lash
    that comes with honesty.

    In a perfect world all parents would monitor their children
    and they would not be victims to cyber bullies....
    not the case.
    It's on the rise, it is dangerous to everyone.

    Speaking out against the government is monitored already, this proposal is to keep others
    from mean spirited lies and bullying something we don't need in our society.
    What we need is honesty and accountability.
    We expect that from our govt ....
    shouldn't we have to live it too?

    Your kids are probably older than me, I was obviously being hypothetical. Parents should pay attention to their children, if they don't then that is their fault. No need for the government to intervene to help ignorant parents... That's my thought, I still don't buy your (as I see it) weak appeal to Pathos. That's just not the job of the government to me. If these mean bullies were simply ignored then they would go away... there would be no food to feed the troll... it would die of starvation. I certainly don't want the government to bully me and that is why I simply do not vote for people that wish to impose their morals upon me. That in itself is an act of bullying
    I think many can not ignore when lies are being said nor should they have to.
    It is more than disruptive, it is disturbing to one's life.
    It is pure and simple injustice and the reaction for many is to hide and succumb,
    what a bully wants.

    Many laws are based in morality ... how about murder? rape? assault?
    these are all physical abuse but there is emotional abuse that is just as
    damaging to a life, we see this in personal relationships and the damage done.

    I think it wise for people to research and read what is happening to others
    out there who are being bullied.

    I stick up for the victims.
    They have a right to live their life without being a victim.
    I rarely have a heart for the abuser. They are cowards, weak...
    the psychological profile of these people is also a very good read.

    The bullies need to go, remove the shield of anonymity ...
    we then remove their weapons ...
    hateful words.

    Yeah except murder and rape effect others and there isn't much anyone can do except staying locked up in their house. You can easily turn the computer off... And of course they have a right to live without being a victim! But, cyber bullying is something completely different then real life bullying as YOU as the VICTIM can simply TURN OFF THE COMPUTER or GO TO ANOTHER WEBSITE. We do not need MORE regulations on how we speak just because a few people are being bullied on the internet, something that can be avoided entirely.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855


    Yeah except murder and rape effect others and there isn't much anyone can do except staying locked up in their house. You can easily turn the computer off... And of course they have a right to live without being a victim! But, cyber bullying is something completely different then real life bullying as YOU as the VICTIM can simply TURN OFF THE COMPUTER or GO TO ANOTHER WEBSITE. We do not need MORE regulations on how we speak just because a few people are being bullied on the internet, something that can be avoided entirely.

    But why should someone have to be in fear of their computer?
    Why should it be ok to be abused there?
    Why should they have to leave a site when they do nothing wrong to anyone?
    They are not the offender.

    Why should someone who is doing something horrible and bad
    just like murder, rape and assault but with their words be allowed to do so?
    Those who cause mental and emotional abuse and do so in a premeditated manner.

    A Senator can not walk away from lies that effects his job, his public rating.
    Lies and harmful words must be owned, it is a terrible injustice to another if they are not.
    Bullies need to be out in the open and prove their words as truth or don't say them.

    I see it as protection just as we protect others from physical abuse.
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    pandora wrote:


    Yeah except murder and rape effect others and there isn't much anyone can do except staying locked up in their house. You can easily turn the computer off... And of course they have a right to live without being a victim! But, cyber bullying is something completely different then real life bullying as YOU as the VICTIM can simply TURN OFF THE COMPUTER or GO TO ANOTHER WEBSITE. We do not need MORE regulations on how we speak just because a few people are being bullied on the internet, something that can be avoided entirely.

    But why should someone have to be in fear of their computer?
    Why should it be ok to be abused there?
    Why should they have to leave a site when they do nothing wrong to anyone?
    They are not the offender.

    Why should someone who is doing something horrible and bad
    just like murder, rape and assault but with their words be allowed to do so?
    Those who cause mental and emotional abuse and do so in a premeditated manner.

    A Senator can not walk away from lies that effects his job, his public rating.
    Lies and harmful words must be owned, it is a terrible injustice to another if they are not.
    Bullies need to be out in the open and prove their words as truth or don't say them.

    I see it as protection just as we protect others from physical abuse.

    They don't have to leave. they can simply ignore or use the block feature that many sites have. All I am saying is if the internet really bugs ya that much, then don't use it. Senators lie all the time, their real skill is getting others to believe it just as the folks in New York are trying to get the public to believe this bill is okay.

    We'll never agree so, I'll leave it at that. You would get along with my mother extraordinarily well.

    Edit: It is also important to remember this would affect everyone, not just those nasty cyber bullies. Once people start getting fired from their jobs for speaking their political beliefs, you'll see how ridiculous this bill can become.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    pandora wrote:


    Yeah except murder and rape effect others and there isn't much anyone can do except staying locked up in their house. You can easily turn the computer off... And of course they have a right to live without being a victim! But, cyber bullying is something completely different then real life bullying as YOU as the VICTIM can simply TURN OFF THE COMPUTER or GO TO ANOTHER WEBSITE. We do not need MORE regulations on how we speak just because a few people are being bullied on the internet, something that can be avoided entirely.

    But why should someone have to be in fear of their computer?
    Why should it be ok to be abused there?
    Why should they have to leave a site when they do nothing wrong to anyone?
    They are not the offender.

    Why should someone who is doing something horrible and bad
    just like murder, rape and assault but with their words be allowed to do so?
    Those who cause mental and emotional abuse and do so in a premeditated manner.

    A Senator can not walk away from lies that effects his job, his public rating.
    Lies and harmful words must be owned, it is a terrible injustice to another if they are not.
    Bullies need to be out in the open and prove their words as truth or don't say them.

    I see it as protection just as we protect others from physical abuse.

    They don't have to leave. they can simply ignore or use the block feature that many sites have. All I am saying is if the internet really bugs ya that much, then don't use it. Senators lie all the time, their real skill is getting others to believe it just as the folks in New York are trying to get the public to believe this bill is okay.

    We'll never agree so, I'll leave it at that. You would get along with my mother extraordinarily well.

    Edit: It is also important to remember this would affect everyone, not just those nasty cyber bullies. Once people start getting fired from their jobs for speaking their political beliefs, you'll see how ridiculous this bill can become.

    This is a ridiculous bill as in it will affect ALL who will use the Internet to curtail a small percentage that may abuse the Internet THROUGH WORDS. If you want small government then stick to small or limited government in our lives...it can't and shouldn't be where you pick and choose where politicians do their POLLITRICKING with this hideous bill.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    Politicians lie through their teeth and bash others freely on national TV and elsewhere, so I don't see how they expect any different from anyone else; anonymity or lack thereof doesn't make anything more or less true, so I don't see why it matters who is saying what ... More like they are afraid of all the TRUTH that is out there about them, while they try to hide it. Anyway, there are enough people out there who wouldn't care that they're not anonymous. What these politicians are trying to hide from would continue.

    I cannot imagine this legislation will ever actually become law. It's too dubious with too many implications with regard to freedom of expression and privacy rights. Too dubious even for them .... although never say never I guess. I doubt the Germans expected the Nazis to take the turn they did either, but it happened, so I guess this kind of thing certainly can't be counted out.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    But why should someone have to be in fear of their computer?
    Why should it be ok to be abused there?
    Why should they have to leave a site when they do nothing wrong to anyone?
    They are not the offender.

    Why should someone who is doing something horrible and bad
    just like murder, rape and assault but with their words be allowed to do so?
    Those who cause mental and emotional abuse and do so in a premeditated manner.

    A Senator can not walk away from lies that effects his job, his public rating.
    Lies and harmful words must be owned, it is a terrible injustice to another if they are not.
    Bullies need to be out in the open and prove their words as truth or don't say them.

    I see it as protection just as we protect others from physical abuse.

    They don't have to leave. they can simply ignore or use the block feature that many sites have. All I am saying is if the internet really bugs ya that much, then don't use it. Senators lie all the time, their real skill is getting others to believe it just as the folks in New York are trying to get the public to believe this bill is okay.

    We'll never agree so, I'll leave it at that. You would get along with my mother extraordinarily well.

    Edit: It is also important to remember this would affect everyone, not just those nasty cyber bullies. Once people start getting fired from their jobs for speaking their political beliefs, you'll see how ridiculous this bill can become.

    Some politicians lie, they will put their names to lies, just as everyone else,
    and be called out for those lies. Win win.

    It makes for a more honest world all around.
    Some people bully only because they can without consequence.
    Bullies do not have a sense of responsibility to others.

    The problem with ignore is that the victim is the only one ignoring. :?
    The lies, the insults remain and do their dirty deed.
    Discolor discredit another person. This an injustice to someone doing no harm
    and they have no recourse.
    Bullies by nature need to put others down,
    they will not stop unless they are called out and punished.

    Also if a person is fired for political views
    I am assuming that company will pay out dearly just as they would now.
    Unless of course the person is speaking lies.

    I agree we will respectfully not agree.

    Yes your Mama and I, perhaps our life experiences might bring us to be comrades,
    with a similar goal in mind , a kinder gentler world.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Politicians lie through their teeth and bash others freely on national TV and elsewhere, so I don't see how they expect any different from anyone else; anonymity or lack thereof doesn't make anything more or less true, so I don't see why it matters who is saying what ... More like they are afraid of all the TRUTH that is out there about them, while they try to hide it. Anyway, there are enough people out there who wouldn't care that they're not anonymous. What these politicians are trying to hide from would continue.

    I cannot imagine this legislation will ever actually become law. It's too dubious with too many implications with regard to freedom of expression and privacy rights. Too dubious even for them .... although never say never I guess. I doubt the Germans expected the Nazis to take the turn they did either, but it happened, so I guess this kind of thing certainly can't be counted out.


    here in oz our politicians can do that under the protection of parliamentary privilege and can not be held liable. its horseshit of course and to me a sanctioned form of bullying and name calling.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    pandora wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    But why should someone have to be in fear of their computer?
    Why should it be ok to be abused there?
    Why should they have to leave a site when they do nothing wrong to anyone?
    They are not the offender.

    Why should someone who is doing something horrible and bad
    just like murder, rape and assault but with their words be allowed to do so?
    Those who cause mental and emotional abuse and do so in a premeditated manner.

    A Senator can not walk away from lies that effects his job, his public rating.
    Lies and harmful words must be owned, it is a terrible injustice to another if they are not.
    Bullies need to be out in the open and prove their words as truth or don't say them.

    I see it as protection just as we protect others from physical abuse.

    They don't have to leave. they can simply ignore or use the block feature that many sites have. All I am saying is if the internet really bugs ya that much, then don't use it. Senators lie all the time, their real skill is getting others to believe it just as the folks in New York are trying to get the public to believe this bill is okay.

    We'll never agree so, I'll leave it at that. You would get along with my mother extraordinarily well.

    Edit: It is also important to remember this would affect everyone, not just those nasty cyber bullies. Once people start getting fired from their jobs for speaking their political beliefs, you'll see how ridiculous this bill can become.

    Some politicians lie, they will put their names to lies, just as everyone else,
    and be called out for those lies. Win win.

    It makes for a more honest world all around.
    Some people bully only because they can without consequence.
    Bullies do not have a sense of responsibility to others.

    The problem with ignore is that the victim is the only one ignoring. :?
    The lies, the insults remain and do their dirty deed.
    Discolor discredit another person. This an injustice to someone doing no harm
    and they have no recourse.
    Bullies by nature need to put others down,
    they will not stop unless they are called out and punished.

    Also if a person is fired for political views
    I am assuming that company will pay out dearly just as they would now.
    Unless of course the person is speaking lies.

    I agree we will respectfully not agree.

    Yes your Mama and I, perhaps our life experiences might bring us to be comrades,
    with a similar goal in mind , a kinder gentler world.

    MOST politicians lie... It is part of the game. I study it... I'm a Political Science major ;)
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    g under p wrote:
    This is a ridiculous bill as in it will affect ALL who will use the Internet to curtail a small percentage that may abuse the Internet THROUGH WORDS. If you want small government then stick to small or limited government in our lives...it can't and shouldn't be where you pick and choose where politicians do their POLLITRICKING with this hideous bill.

    Peace

    Yeah, that's what I was getting at...
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:

    They don't have to leave. they can simply ignore or use the block feature that many sites have. All I am saying is if the internet really bugs ya that much, then don't use it. Senators lie all the time, their real skill is getting others to believe it just as the folks in New York are trying to get the public to believe this bill is okay.

    We'll never agree so, I'll leave it at that. You would get along with my mother extraordinarily well.

    Edit: It is also important to remember this would affect everyone, not just those nasty cyber bullies. Once people start getting fired from their jobs for speaking their political beliefs, you'll see how ridiculous this bill can become.

    Some politicians lie, they will put their names to lies, just as everyone else,
    and be called out for those lies. Win win.

    It makes for a more honest world all around.
    Some people bully only because they can without consequence.
    Bullies do not have a sense of responsibility to others.

    The problem with ignore is that the victim is the only one ignoring. :?
    The lies, the insults remain and do their dirty deed.
    Discolor discredit another person. This an injustice to someone doing no harm
    and they have no recourse.
    Bullies by nature need to put others down,
    they will not stop unless they are called out and punished.

    Also if a person is fired for political views
    I am assuming that company will pay out dearly just as they would now.
    Unless of course the person is speaking lies.

    I agree we will respectfully not agree.

    Yes your Mama and I, perhaps our life experiences might bring us to be comrades,
    with a similar goal in mind , a kinder gentler world.

    MOST politicians lie... It is part of the game. I study it... I'm a Political Science major ;)
    This accountability could help change that ...
    pretty embarrassing not to mention defeating to be called out on lies with proof,
    that could change an election. Everyone will be more accountable.
    Then reversely, for those who are being accused unjustly of something they
    have not said or done they would have recourse by pointing the finger to the accuser
    and saying prove it.

    But more importantly no one will be anonymous to bully another person,
    this key to stopping that altogether.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    pandora wrote:

    Removing the anonymous shield bullies have will make a big dent.
    It will also help children to learn to be honest and responsible in their words...

    that words indeed hurt and effect others and blatant lies are even worse.
    I vote for a society that is accountable to one another, that cares for each other
    and works together not against.

    First, How do you know those things will happen? Kids are told ALL THE TIME that their words hurt others, that they should be nice, that sharing is good, that they should treat people how they want to be treated. This will do absolutely zero to change anything about the internet except put MORE information out there for hackers to garner. It sure will look good on the campaign trail though...especially to all those that wish to have a nanny state...I don't want one.
    It is misguided to think that a law is needed to stop a behavior...There are rules against bullying at schools, there is nothing anonymous about that and it happens constantly...this is an extraordinary extra step that is completely unnecessary.
    what solves the problem better, telling an authority figure and having them stop it, or stopping it yourself?
    Seriously...I don't like some misleading posts on here...should I literally complain to government authorities? or should I handle it myself or even better, ignore them?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    pandora wrote:

    Removing the anonymous shield bullies have will make a big dent.
    It will also help children to learn to be honest and responsible in their words...

    that words indeed hurt and effect others and blatant lies are even worse.
    I vote for a society that is accountable to one another, that cares for each other
    and works together not against.

    First, How do you know those things will happen? Kids are told ALL THE TIME that their words hurt others, that they should be nice, that sharing is good, that they should treat people how they want to be treated. This will do absolutely zero to change anything about the internet except put MORE information out there for hackers to garner. It sure will look good on the campaign trail though...especially to all those that wish to have a nanny state...I don't want one.
    It is misguided to think that a law is needed to stop a behavior...There are rules against bullying at schools, there is nothing anonymous about that and it happens constantly...this is an extraordinary extra step that is completely unnecessary.
    what solves the problem better, telling an authority figure and having them stop it, or stopping it yourself?
    Seriously...I don't like some misleading posts on here...should I literally complain to government authorities? or should I handle it myself or even better, ignore them?
    Do you think then there should be no laws governing wife beating, child molestation, etc
    these are abusive behaviors.

    We need laws to stop mental and emotional abuse as well as physical.
    This kind of abuse is just as life changing, just as damaging, it is also learned behavior
    for our young.

    Where do we think bullies come from? Other bullies. Where do we think bullies hide...
    in a nice anonymous place to do their dirty work.

    If in our society we have accountability for our actions we are more likely to be sure
    our actions are true and right. This why we have laws in the first place.

    We are not talking abut an innocent misleading comment
    we are talking about outright lies and insults done to injure another person.
    Someone doing this needs to own their words and prove them to be true.
    Not too much to ask really in a caring society.
  • 8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    you people don't need to know who i am.

    that is all
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    81 wrote:
    you people don't need to know who i am.

    that is all

    you think we dont... but i do. ;)8-)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    There are already laws covering 'outright lies and insults done to injure another person' - libel and slander. Covers the written word and the spoken word, photos, etc.

    There is also already plenty in place to 'protect' our children on the internet, just like there is plenty to 'protect' the kids (and adults) in 'real life'. Though, like anything else, it's not foolproof.

    But we know that, really, this proposition is not about cyber bullying.....
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    redrock wrote:
    There are already laws covering 'outright lies and insults done to injure another person' - libel and slander. Covers the written word and the spoken word, photos, etc.

    There is also already plenty in place to 'protect' our children on the internet, just like there is plenty to 'protect' the kids (and adults) in 'real life'. Though, like anything else, it's not foolproof.

    But we know that, really, this proposition is not about cyber bullying....
    .

    of course not.. but it sure sounds good doesnt it?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    pandora wrote:

    Do you think then there should be no laws governing wife beating, child molestation, etc
    these are abusive behaviors.

    Of course I think there should be laws against those things. Abuse is no joke. I will turn it back on you and say, have those laws eradicated the behavior or is it still a large problem? So if punishments for assault and battery cannot stop a behavior, what chance does taking away anonymity have? This only violates the free speech rights of the original poster and gives a third party host my verified information. What is to stop someone from hosting a website simply to gather all that info and sell it?

    But to a larger point, let me explain why I believe these are two different issues. First, physical abuse is a clear violation of the rights of another human being. It is assault. The intention of laws is to protect our rights as granted to us by the constitution or founding documents of a nation. It isn't about getting rid of every little behavior some don't like...This will do nothing to stop bullying, and that really isn't the intention of the law if you look at it. It is about intimidating people into not voicing their opinion. Based in reality or based in fiction, my opinion is mine to have, and mine to express. Now if you intimidate a person into not voicing their opinion, you are infringing on their rights, aren't you? Me lying and being a little malicious in intent, while deplorable, doesn't exactly constitute a crime. If you don't like it you can simply not look at it. You can ignore it, you can take someone to civil court if you feel like it was libel, or you can read it and let it affect the rest of your life, etc...it is up to you. Lying isn't illegal although it may be immoral to some.
    What is next? will saying Sandra has cooties become a criminally punishable offense? Should I end up in juvenile hall for writing something on a school bathroom stall? No nanny state please.

    Does the anonymity of the internet have drawbacks? absolutely. But that doesn't mean that erasing the anonymity won't have farther reaching and worse drawbacks. Freedom is amoral, it is the actions you take that are moral or immoral...you will never be able to eradicate immorality through laws. Ever. So why punish the majority for the actions of a few?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    pandora wrote:

    Do you think then there should be no laws governing wife beating, child molestation, etc
    these are abusive behaviors.

    Of course I think there should be laws against those things. Abuse is no joke. I will turn it back on you and say, have those laws eradicated the behavior or is it still a large problem? So if punishments for assault and battery cannot stop a behavior, what chance does taking away anonymity have? This only violates the free speech rights of the original poster and gives a third party host my verified information. What is to stop someone from hosting a website simply to gather all that info and sell it?

    But to a larger point, let me explain why I believe these are two different issues. First, physical abuse is a clear violation of the rights of another human being. It is assault. The intention of laws is to protect our rights as granted to us by the constitution or founding documents of a nation. It isn't about getting rid of every little behavior some don't like...This will do nothing to stop bullying, and that really isn't the intention of the law if you look at it. It is about intimidating people into not voicing their opinion. Based in reality or based in fiction, my opinion is mine to have, and mine to express. Now if you intimidate a person into not voicing their opinion, you are infringing on their rights, aren't you? Me lying and being a little malicious in intent, while deplorable, doesn't exactly constitute a crime. If you don't like it you can simply not look at it. You can ignore it, you can take someone to civil court if you feel like it was libel, or you can read it and let it affect the rest of your life, etc...it is up to you. Lying isn't illegal although it may be immoral to some.
    What is next? will saying Sandra has cooties become a criminally punishable offense? Should I end up in juvenile hall for writing something on a school bathroom stall? No nanny state please.

    Does the anonymity of the internet have drawbacks? absolutely. But that doesn't mean that erasing the anonymity won't have farther reaching and worse drawbacks. Freedom is amoral, it is the actions you take that are moral or immoral...you will never be able to eradicate immorality through laws. Ever. So why punish the majority for the actions of a few?

    :clap: Bravo...This post right here says it all....too tired to write anymore. Thisbill simply won't stop internet abuse...it just won't.There's a bigger picture and is it worth having this bill to solve this problem that will not be eradiicated either with it or without?

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    pandora wrote:

    Do you think then there should be no laws governing wife beating, child molestation, etc
    these are abusive behaviors.

    Of course I think there should be laws against those things. Abuse is no joke. I will turn it back on you and say, have those laws eradicated the behavior or is it still a large problem? So if punishments for assault and battery cannot stop a behavior, what chance does taking away anonymity have? This only violates the free speech rights of the original poster and gives a third party host my verified information. What is to stop someone from hosting a website simply to gather all that info and sell it?

    But to a larger point, let me explain why I believe these are two different issues. First, physical abuse is a clear violation of the rights of another human being. It is assault. The intention of laws is to protect our rights as granted to us by the constitution or founding documents of a nation. It isn't about getting rid of every little behavior some don't like...This will do nothing to stop bullying, and that really isn't the intention of the law if you look at it. It is about intimidating people into not voicing their opinion. Based in reality or based in fiction, my opinion is mine to have, and mine to express. Now if you intimidate a person into not voicing their opinion, you are infringing on their rights, aren't you? Me lying and being a little malicious in intent, while deplorable, doesn't exactly constitute a crime. If you don't like it you can simply not look at it. You can ignore it, you can take someone to civil court if you feel like it was libel, or you can read it and let it affect the rest of your life, etc...it is up to you. Lying isn't illegal although it may be immoral to some.
    What is next? will saying Sandra has cooties become a criminally punishable offense? Should I end up in juvenile hall for writing something on a school bathroom stall? No nanny state please.

    Does the anonymity of the internet have drawbacks? absolutely. But that doesn't mean that erasing the anonymity won't have farther reaching and worse drawbacks. Freedom is amoral, it is the actions you take that are moral or immoral...you will never be able to eradicate immorality through laws. Ever. So why punish the majority for the actions of a few?
    No abuse is no joke, any abuse.
    We see how much of physical abuse is anonymous, it is a driving factor.
    Abusers don't announce their name.
    Terrible abuse like random murder and rape happen just because the opportunity arose.
    This the same as the anonymous atmosphere on the internet, the opportunity is here.
    Bullies abuse because they can without accountability.

    "Every little behavior we don't like"... your words,

    this attitude is why we need help with this real problem.
    It is condoning extremely bad behavior and dismissing the harm it causes
    to others. This exactly why we need a law like this because others are
    not understanding the magnitude nor feel a need to stop it. They are not
    educated to the problem and are unwilling to remove the shield for fear.
    Fear someone may do something to them.

    Well, something is already happening to people.

    "Me lying and being a little malicious in intent"... your words,

    more lack of understanding as to the harm done, more not taking responsibility for
    one's actions or words. Being accountable.

    In my opinion which I will remain to have under this proposal,
    no one would be intimidating me into not voicing my opinion.
    Who is intimidating are people who insult and spread untruths.
    Bully's are intimidating as they intend to be, this their motive.

    My free speech right is intact, what is not is any right to abuse,
    to use my computer as a shield to wield untruths and insults.

    I look forward to the day when people know each other as they do in person,
    respectfully and honestly.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    pandora wrote:

    Do you think then there should be no laws governing wife beating, child molestation, etc
    these are abusive behaviors.

    Of course I think there should be laws against those things. Abuse is no joke. I will turn it back on you and say, have those laws eradicated the behavior or is it still a large problem? So if punishments for assault and battery cannot stop a behavior, what chance does taking away anonymity have? This only violates the free speech rights of the original poster and gives a third party host my verified information. What is to stop someone from hosting a website simply to gather all that info and sell it?

    But to a larger point, let me explain why I believe these are two different issues. First, physical abuse is a clear violation of the rights of another human being. It is assault. The intention of laws is to protect our rights as granted to us by the constitution or founding documents of a nation. It isn't about getting rid of every little behavior some don't like...This will do nothing to stop bullying, and that really isn't the intention of the law if you look at it. It is about intimidating people into not voicing their opinion. Based in reality or based in fiction, my opinion is mine to have, and mine to express. Now if you intimidate a person into not voicing their opinion, you are infringing on their rights, aren't you? Me lying and being a little malicious in intent, while deplorable, doesn't exactly constitute a crime. If you don't like it you can simply not look at it. You can ignore it, you can take someone to civil court if you feel like it was libel, or you can read it and let it affect the rest of your life, etc...it is up to you. Lying isn't illegal although it may be immoral to some.
    What is next? will saying Sandra has cooties become a criminally punishable offense? Should I end up in juvenile hall for writing something on a school bathroom stall? No nanny state please.

    Does the anonymity of the internet have drawbacks? absolutely. But that doesn't mean that erasing the anonymity won't have farther reaching and worse drawbacks. Freedom is amoral, it is the actions you take that are moral or immoral...you will never be able to eradicate immorality through laws. Ever. So why punish the majority for the actions of a few?
    QFT
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    .... If a few certain people on this forum weren't anonymous they would probably be receiving hate mail on a regular basis, and possibly threatening phone calls. It is dangerous for people to give up their anonymity just so they can express a point. It would put people in actual danger. It would also open the door to professional ramifications for people if their stated viewpoints didn't match up with their employers... and the list goes on as to why this kind of law would be disastrous. This law isn't about bullying at all. It's about politicians not liking the truth to be stated in public.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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