Ban 'anonymous' speech online?

pandora

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

What if someone who lives in a facist country wants to expose human rights violations, and the only way to do it is via the interwebs?

So sorry, but you need to introduce yourself to everyone before you can expose any wrongdoings.

First off there are other ways than the internet to expose human rights violations,
that might be the easy way and probably the least effective. :?

This is about protecting many not some ...
what about the human rights violations being carried out by the cyber bullies? AND WORSE.
That is the crux to this proposal.

bindy123

Just want to quickly say this thread has been awesome, really learnt a lot from reading it.

I honestly started the thread with a really open mind...saw positives and negatives of both sides of the argument I guess...

Too many posters to mention individually, but I have so much respect for your combined knowledge and the way you have articulated your points...am now firmy and utterly convinced this proposed law is disgusting, and if any benefits came from it, they would be far far far outweighed by the negatives.

Thanks

Oh yeah my real name is Bindy wolfe, I am a three year old dog, the photo in the avatar is of me, just in case you think my post is an act of bullying, and that I wish to hide

PJ_Soul

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

pandora wrote:

All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis.
There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!

I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it

There is no restrictions...
say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.
It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in.
No fear.

Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.

This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.

This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.

Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.

I posted these examples a few days ago:

Pandora:

Hypothetically, if you were being abused by your husband, and you wanted to discuss it online with other such victims, would you want to divulge your identity?

If your child was confused about his sexuality, would you want him to be compelled to divulge his identity on a message board where others in the same situation can discuss their issues?

Cyber bullying is a problem, but in the big picture, there are many more important factors that make this proposed law very dangerous.

Or sites dedicated to discussions about abortion, adoption, divorce and marital issues, legal issues, drug use, alcoholism, sexual identity (as mentioned), whistle blowers, etc etc etc. You said it Joe. There are tons of reasons why anonymity is important and must be maintained as an option. Cyber bullying can be dealt with in other ways.

pandora

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

As a good faith gesture, perhaps all those in favor of the proposed law can post their real names for us to see?

I already use my real name as I have said and I signed a petition today name address phone number...
should I be fearing reprisal? Have I done something wrong to fear?

Again, what is all this fear? I guess those fearful can relate to the victims of the
cyber bullies and feel how they feel. That would be nice...

JOEJOEJOE

pandora wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

What if someone who lives in a facist country wants to expose human rights violations, and the only way to do it is via the interwebs?

So sorry, but you need to introduce yourself to everyone before you can expose any wrongdoings.

First off there are other ways than the internet to expose human rights violations,
that might be the easy way and probably the least effective. :?

This is about protecting many not some ...
what about the human rights violations being carried out by the cyber bullies? AND WORSE.
That is the crux to this proposal.

People being cyber-bullied can turn off their computers. People being physically tortured by their government don't have that luxury.

pandora

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

pandora wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

What if someone who lives in a facist country wants to expose human rights violations, and the only way to do it is via the interwebs?

So sorry, but you need to introduce yourself to everyone before you can expose any wrongdoings.

First off there are other ways than the internet to expose human rights violations,
that might be the easy way and probably the least effective. :?

This is about protecting many not some ...
what about the human rights violations being carried out by the cyber bullies? AND WORSE.
That is the crux to this proposal.

People being cyber-bullied can turn off their computers. People being physically tortured by their government don't have that luxury.

They have much better tools than the internet.

And why should someone be bullied to the point that they can not use their computer? :fp:

pandora

bindy123 wrote:

Just want to quickly say this thread has been awesome, really learnt a lot from reading it.

I honestly started the thread with a really open mind...saw positives and negatives of both sides of the argument I guess...

Too many posters to mention individually, but I have so much respect for your combined knowledge and the way you have articulated your points...am now firmy and utterly convinced this proposed law is disgusting, and if any benefits came from it, they would be far far far outweighed by the negatives.

Thanks

Oh yeah my real name is Bindy wolfe, I am a three year old dog, the photo in the avatar is of me, just in case you think my post is an act of bullying, and that I wish to hide

me thinks you don't understand cyber bullying cause you would not joke
but you are very cute... Miss Lucy Lew would like you!

JOEJOEJOE

Pandora, to help us understand your position, perhaps you could convey your experiences with cyber-bullying.

PJ_Soul

pandora wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

pandora wrote:

All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis.
There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!

I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it

There is no restrictions...
say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.
It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in.
No fear.

Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.

This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.

This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.

Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.

I posted these examples a few days ago:

Pandora:

Hypothetically, if you were being abused by your husband, and you wanted to discuss it online with other such victims, would you want to divulge your identity?

If your child was confused about his sexuality, would you want him to be compelled to divulge his identity on a message board where others in the same situation can discuss their issues?

Cyber bullying is a problem, but in the big picture, there are many more important factors that make this proposed law very dangerous.

I do not think speaking about, or asking for advice, with god knows who about personal topics,
like abuse and one's sexuality belongs in an anonymous environment
simply because people are not who they say they are. We all know this.
Here there everywhere.
If a victim has no trusted family or friends
seek out help groups which are available in everyone's community
that is a much better option.
There, face to face eye to eye, one recieves honesty and true caring
and real life solutions most often given by survivors or trained professional.

Oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about reality here.

pandora

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

I do not think speaking about, or asking for advice, with god knows who about personal topics,
like abuse and one's sexuality belongs in an anonymous environment
simply because people are not who they say they are. We all know this.
Here there everywhere.
If a victim has no trusted family or friends
seek out help groups which are available in everyone's community
that is a much better option.
There, face to face eye to eye, one recieves honesty and true caring
and real life solutions most often given by survivors or trained professional.

So all of the trusted websites aimed to help the suicidal (or those thinking about it), alcoholics, the scared, the ones just looking for some basic information to assist themselves, etc. - no more anonymity?

Truly a frightening prospect.

And the part I bolded above? Yikes. God knows how so many friendships that began online have managed to be forged here, there, and everywhere, when people are not who they say they are.

*edit to reply to your other post to me - my employer example was one, as I said earlier, straight off the top of my head. There are a plethora of additional valid reasons which have been explained very well among these many pages. It's fine you don't see them or if you do, dismiss or disagree with them.

It's good to have the discussion, to see where folks stand on the issue. I don't think this thing has a chance in hell of passing, thankfully.

Actually I already thought of that positive ....
many more friendships when we remove the veil
and those who are dishonest, scamming, lying, cheating, hurting others.
One could actually trust others more. A kinder gentler world.
It will be a win win accountability for all and no more fear.

I see the plus's

pandora

PJ_Soul wrote:

pandora wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

I posted these examples a few days ago:

Pandora:

Hypothetically, if you were being abused by your husband, and you wanted to discuss it online with other such victims, would you want to divulge your identity?

If your child was confused about his sexuality, would you want him to be compelled to divulge his identity on a message board where others in the same situation can discuss their issues?

Cyber bullying is a problem, but in the big picture, there are many more important factors that make this proposed law very dangerous.

I do not think speaking about, or asking for advice, with god knows who about personal topics,
like abuse and one's sexuality belongs in an anonymous environment
simply because people are not who they say they are. We all know this.
Here there everywhere.
If a victim has no trusted family or friends
seek out help groups which are available in everyone's community
that is a much better option.
There, face to face eye to eye, one recieves honesty and true caring
and real life solutions most often given by survivors or trained professional.

Oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about reality here.

Can you explain please? kindly of course....

pandora

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Pandora, to help us understand your position, perhaps you could convey your experiences with cyber-bullying.

Do you think that is a personal question? I do and totally irrelevant.
But perhaps it's safe to say you have not experienced it. Or is that irrelevant also?

We all know what cyber bullying is.

Have you read the effects on people and their lives and loved ones?
Have you shed a tear for anyone who's life has been made a living hell
for no fault of their own?

norm

JOEJOEJOE

pandora wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Pandora, to help us understand your position, perhaps you could convey your experiences with cyber-bullying.

Do you think that is a personal question? I do and totally irrelevant.
But perhaps it's safe to say you have not experienced it. Or is that irrelevant also?

We all know what cyber bullying is.

Have you read the effects on people and their lives and loved ones?
Have you shed a tear for anyone who's life has been made a living hell
for no fault of their own?

I am sorry if you have suffered at the hands of a cyber bully.

What about the effects on those who may suffer because they can't seek advice in a setting in which they feel safe?

pandora

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

pandora wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Pandora, to help us understand your position, perhaps you could convey your experiences with cyber-bullying.

Do you think that is a personal question? I do and totally irrelevant.
But perhaps it's safe to say you have not experienced it. Or is that irrelevant also?

We all know what cyber bullying is.

Have you read the effects on people and their lives and loved ones?
Have you shed a tear for anyone who's life has been made a living hell
for no fault of their own?

I am sorry if you have suffered at the hands of a cyber bully.

What about the effects on those who may suffer because they can't seek advice in a setting in which they feel safe?

No one should feel safe on the internet as it is now. They are not safe!
Discussing personal trauma, as I have mentioned, should be done face to face,
in a trusted environment. There are teen groups, AA, religious groups, counselors,
battered woman organizations etc etc.
This where the best advice and solution is found. These sites have professionals
and often live chat where you know who you are talking with.

Seeking general info is always available on the web but no one would need to be anonymous
for that.

Cosmo

Here's my take:
Just about EVERYTHING on the fucking Internet is 'Anonymous'.
Think about it... how many of you are listing your 'Real Name' here? If you are using your real name... posting your mailing address for the entire world to see, that's your problem, not anyone else's. There's a reason why we lock our doors at night, isn't there. Not because we are afraid... but because we KNOW there are some loose grapes rolling around out there and don't want them to end up in our homes.
I can understand kids being bullied on Facebook and shit... but, seriously, kid... get out of Facebook. Those people are not your 'Friends'... they are people you probably barely know. Facebook is not a necessity.
...
And speaking as one who has been accused of bullying... I say, 'Fuck you'. If you can't handle opposing viewpoints on a political forum on a rock band's website... go talk about how cute the frontman is. The topics under discussion here on the Train are specifically quarantined from the rest of the site because issues such as abortion, religion, guns, war, race, etc... are hot button topics that people feel passionate about and debate can get heated. If you can't discuss an issue without getting all hot and bothered... it probably means it's because your rationale and facts are unsupportable. If you fold like a pansie a brief Spring shower... then, you probably need to go to the part of the Internet where you can dance under the rainbow created by a Unicorn taking a piss and steer clear of politically charged debate.
People call me names all the time... you know what? Fuck' em. Why the fuck should I give a shit about what someone I don't give a shit about says? People have told me, 'Oh, you wouldn't say that is we were in person'... WRONG. I would... and if they try to hit me your their fucking purse... fuck 'em, they shouldn't be debating if they cannot control their violent tendencies.
Bottom Line: The LAST thing we need is fucking politicians telling us what we can and cannot say.

JOEJOEJOE

Cosmo wrote:

Here's my take:
Just about EVERYTHING on the fucking Internet is 'Anonymous'.
Think about it... how many of you are listing your 'Real Name' here? If you are using your real name... posting your mailing address for the entire world to see, that's your problem, not anyone else's. There's a reason why we lock our doors at night, isn't there. Not because we are afraid... but because we KNOW there are some loose grapes rolling around out there and don't want them to end up in our homes.
I can understand kids being bullied on Facebook and shit... but, seriously, kid... get out of Facebook. Those people are not your 'Friends'... they are people you probably barely know. Facebook is not a necessity.
...
And speaking as one who has been accused of bullying... I say, 'Fuck you'. If you can't handle opposing viewpoints on a political forum on a rock band's website... go talk about how cute the frontman is. The topics under discussion here on the Train are specifically quarantined from the rest of the site because issues such as abortion, religion, guns, war, race, etc... are hot button topics that people feel passionate about and debate can get heated. If you can't discuss an issue without getting all hot and bothered... it probably means it's because your rationale and facts are unsupportable. If you fold like a pansie a brief Spring shower... then, you probably need to go to the part of the Internet where you can dance under the rainbow created by a Unicorn taking a piss and steer clear of politically charged debate.
People call me names all the time... you know what? Fuck' em. Why the fuck should I give a shit about what someone I don't give a shit about says? People have told me, 'Oh, you wouldn't say that is we were in person'... WRONG. I would... and if they try to hit me your their fucking purse... fuck 'em, they shouldn't be debating if they cannot control their violent tendencies.
Bottom Line: The LAST thing we need is fucking politicians telling us what we can and cannot say.

so you are against the proposed law?

Cosmo

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

so you are against the proposed law?

...
'Bullying' is subjective.
I've been accused of bullying because I stood diametrically opposed to a viewpoint expressed by another person. I never threatened them... called them a name... launched a personal attack... but, was still accused of bullying.
Just because I think your opinion is basically a sack of shit... says nothing other than, in my opinion, based upon the words drafted and the logic and reasoning used (or lack thereof) are not based in truth or fact... then, the opinion formed based on that foundation is as valuable to me as a burlap bag that is bursting at the seams with excrement.
My opinion is, based upon their track record and the many worrds uttered by their ranks... politicians are the last people on the planet who should be put in charge of what can and cannot be said.

peacefrompaul

Cosmo wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

so you are against the proposed law?

...
'Bullying' is subjective.
I've been accused of bullying because I stood diametrically opposed to a viewpoint expressed by another person. I never threatened them... called them a name... launched a personal attack... but, was still accused of bullying.
Just because I think your opinion is basically a sack of shit... says nothing other than, in my opinion, based upon the words drafted and the logic and reasoning used (or lack thereof) are not based in truth or fact... then, the opinion formed based on that foundation is as valuable to me as a burlap bag that is bursting at the seams with excrement.
My opinion is, based upon their track record and the many worrds uttered by their ranks... politicians are the last people on the planet who should be put in charge of what can and cannot be said.

Wow! That was awesome!

g under p

pandora wrote:

All I want from my government is info and protection in times of crisis.
There are people in crisis from bullies, this proposal was created
and is being considered to rid the internet of them. Bravo!

I can't believe the negativity here. So afraid the big bad govt is after you!
Well, they are but this isn't part of it

There is no restrictions...
say what you will, speak freely, stand proud by your words...
go hold a sign, walk with others, sign a petition, it's all the same.
I just signed one today name, address, telephone number.


It was for something I believed in . So when we are not anonymous
my words will be as they are now something I believe in.
No fear.

Just don't hide and for everyone's sakes but mostly your own, be honest.

This proposal will insure this.
If you don't like politicians being rats and lying don't do that yourself.

This the positive side to this proposal they will be held accountable also.

Why would anyone need to remain hidden? I guess out of fear
or dirty work. This goes for the bullies and politicians. All will have accountability.

I'm curious you speak of not writing/speaking on the internet in fear. However, It appears I've noticed you don't have your name up on the WHO IS ONLINE below, you appear to sign in as a GUEST, tell me is that out of some sort of FEAR?

Just an observation...what changed?

peace