Ban 'anonymous' speech online?

g under p

pandora wrote:

love the popcorn guy! he's the best ... so cute

and no ... I'm actually for the victims of cyber bullying ... go figure :fp:

and the victim in the classroom, and the victim of the sex tape and....

we're shooting for kindness ... remember
it's harder for some, I know. :?

Ok this thread really now is starting to piss me off. I took a break after posting earlier this morning to mow my lawn for the last 6.5 hours and this thread blows up another 8-9 pages. It's takes another 30-40 minutes to just catch up. Great comedy and debating points made as i read though those pages.

Back to the subject at hand...Am I to believe that you Pandora think those who oppose this bill/debating points and I include myself don't care about cyber bulling or those who have been victimized on the internet?
You see I care very much about the issue of cyber bullying BUT BUT BUT NOT through this ridiculous proposal. It will not bring about a kinder gentler internet but it will open up a can of worms for hackers to have a field....who thrive on getting info. Once in hand they hold tight to yours and mine private parts then squeeze you dry.

EX: A few years ago went to go buy a vegetable patties and few other veggie dishes with my debit card. It came back declined, I said run it again and again...declined. My bank was up the street and I knew the day before I had over 5k in that account. The bank checked and closed that account because someone from London England was draining my account for 4k+.

My point is I don't how they hacked into my accounts but they can get info from someplace and they use it against you. The internet isn't a safe place that's why we have computers that have firewalls for protection against viruses, safe secure sites to pay bills etc and we STILL DON'T EVER feel secure. So how in the world is this proposal going to make us ANY more secure with your info out on the web. It's just not going to magically happen and somehow end cyberbullying with your info out there for ALL to see....how will it be enforced?....Should celebrities or professional players have to put there personal info out there just so everyone is supposedly out of anonymity whenever they want to twit or do the facebook thing?....they NEVER caught who stole my money why because there wasn't any damn way my bank could catch them they wrote it off I gather. They did give me my money back but with this proposal your info is out there forever for everyone and anyone to do what they wish.

How is this law going to catch these cyber bullies or anyone who has your information....HOW? What are you going to do, now that I have your info I'll come over and beat you to a pulp for bullying my child via the internet. I ranted a bit, it was a long hot day in the sun.

Peace

redrock

g under p wrote:

The bank checked and closed that account because someone from London England was draining my account for 4k+.

It was the first and last time - I swear.... It was those shoes - Choo/Manolo/Louboutin - I just couldn't resist..... :oops: So sorry. I won't do it again. :oops:

pandora

g under p wrote:

pandora wrote:

love the popcorn guy! he's the best ... so cute

and no ... I'm actually for the victims of cyber bullying ... go figure :fp:

and the victim in the classroom, and the victim of the sex tape and....

we're shooting for kindness ... remember
it's harder for some, I know. :?

Ok this thread really now is starting to piss me off. I took a break after posting earlier this morning to mow my lawn for the last 6.5 hours and this thread blows up another 8-9 pages. It's takes another 30-40 minutes to just catch up. Great comedy and debating points made as i read though those pages.

Back to the subject at hand...Am I to believe that you Pandora think those who oppose this bill/debating points and I include myself don't care about cyber bulling or those who have been victimized on the internet?
You see I care very much about the issue of cyber bullying BUT BUT BUT NOT through this ridiculous proposal. It will not bring about a kinder gentler internet but it will open up a can of worms for hackers to have a field....who thrive on getting info. Once in hand they hold tight to yours and mine private parts then squeeze you dry.

EX: A few years ago went to go buy a vegetable patties and few other veggie dishes with my debit card. It came back declined, I said run it again and again...declined. My bank was up the street and I knew the day before I had over 5k in that account. The bank checked and closed that account because someone from London England was draining my account for 4k+.

My point is I don't how they hacked into my accounts but they can get info from someplace and they use it against you. The internet isn't a safe place that's why we have computers that have firewalls for protection against viruses, safe secure sites to pay bills etc and we STILL DON'T EVER feel secure. So how in the world is this proposal going to make us ANY more secure with your info out on the web. It's just not going to magically happen and somehow end cyberbullying with your info out there for ALL to see....how will it be enforced?....Should celebrities or professional players have to put there personal info out there just so everyone is supposedly out of anonymity whenever they want to twit or do the facebook thing?....they NEVER caught who stole my money why because there wasn't any damn way my bank could catch them they wrote it off I gather. They did give me my money back but with this proposal your info is out there forever for everyone and anyone to do what they wish.

How is this law going to catch these cyber bullies or anyone who has your information....HOW? What are you going to do, now that I have your info I'll come over and beat you to a pulp for bullying my child via the internet. I ranted a bit, it was a long hot day in the sun.

Peace

Good for you, you rant! Long hot days in the sun effect me the opposite...
I mellow and feel wonderful!
I think most of this has been covered but I'm really glad you point out the
illegal activities going on on the internet.

This exactly why a transparent internet is the answer. The criminals also transparent.
Most criminals do not want to publish their name and address. There is actually
protection in this. But I would like to go further in the future as far as regulation,
identity and use of the internet.

This proposal, I keep asking, third time I believe, is the first of it's kind, right?
It shows there are problems that need to be solved, that there is a need.
We all know the internet will go through many changes in the years to come.
That laws will be created to protect the innocent as have been done to some degree
but not enough to solve the problems.

My belief is that anonymity causes crime that some would otherwise not do for the
sheer fact that they are anonymous. Like my example of crime of opportunity
in real life. This holds true also for just plain old disrespect and mean spiritedness.

People have stated why they do not like the proposal, it seems most is based in fear...
fear of more crime which makes no sense, loss of rights also that makes no sense,
that personal accountability for what one says effects freedom of speech,
and loss of privacy. The last of these is a huge issue on the internet already
with people posting pictures, you tubes etc of others. I don't feel it is a loss of privacy
to stand with your words.

I am pro this proposal as a new beginning to what we know the internet to be
now and what it can be in the future. It's a start and brings many questions on how
exactly all will work in the future. I see many positives to change.

redrock

pandora wrote:

Most criminals do not want to publish their name and address. There is actually
protection in this.

Unless a criminal is utterly stupid (which happens), NO criminal will identify himself/herself - on the internet or in reality. I really don't think that when your home is burglared or you are mugged that a calling card will be left with the criminal's details! Same with the internet. The cyber crime people speak of here is 'behind the scenes' - no posting/ login necessary - but then you know that because it's been explained by various poster in a number of posts.

The arguments you put forth are flawed due to the fact that you do not seem to have any concept of what the internet is and what cyber crime is. Or maybe you do not wish to acknowledge it as it doesn't fit in your 'vision'

Anyway, another thread that is going nowhere. Time to finish...

pandora

The abuse of anonymity begins the problems of the internet.
Hacks start with making a fake internet identity.
One can track true identities, like IP tracing but most people can't do these types of checks.
Thievery, Internet bullying, stalking come from a cost-free anonymity.

This a growing threat in both private and public sectors.
We need better communication, threat information and increase security.
Big business ... cyber security... busy busy. Govts corporations individuals.

Why in the years to come a way will be found to identify users because if not
users remain very vulnerable.

Jeanwah

IT IS NO SECRET THAT GOVERNMENT GETTING INVOLVED IN INTERNET COMMUNICATIONS IS NOT ABOUT SECURITY; IT IS ABOUT CONTROL. If you choose to ignore this, you're a fool.

g under p

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

Most criminals do not want to publish their name and address. There is actually
protection in this.

Unless a criminal is utterly stupid (which happens), NO criminal will identify himself/herself - on the internet or in reality. I really don't think that when your home is burglared or you are mugged that a calling card will be left with the criminal's details! Same with the internet. The cyber crime people speak of here is 'behind the scenes' - no posting/ login necessary - but then you know that because it's been explained by various poster in a number of posts.

The arguments you put forth are flawed due to the fact that you do not seem to have any concept of what the internet is and what cyber crime is. Or maybe you do not wish to acknowledge it as it doesn't fit in your 'vision'

Anyway, another thread that is going nowhere. Time to finish...

In a dream world these criminals may want to identify themselves just to fit that vision of this hideous proposal. However we deal in the real world when it comes to this issue...I think that's why references from the Matrix movie came to mind. We don't as yet know what the future internet will bring but this proposal will do squat/nothing to curb cyber bullies and any bullying from them. Many times when there's a single minded vision and push away other major issues just eliminate one it'll come back bite one in the TOKHIS hard.

RR you've brought here some very good logical points and I've learned a few thank you for participating in this exercise of the real world.

Peace

g under p

Jeanwah wrote:

IT IS NO SECRET THAT GOVERNMENT GETTING INVOLVED IN INTERNET COMMUNICATIONS IS NOT ABOUT SECURITY; IT IS ABOUT CONTROL. If you choose to ignore this, you're a fool.

Wise words that were noted earlier in this thread....this proposal is about CONTROL not much else.

Peace

redrock

pandora wrote:

Hacks start with making a fake internet identity.
One can track true identities, like IP tracing but most people can't do these types of checks..

But they don't Pandora! You really don't understand. Even 'hiding' your IP is a kid's game - any lay person can do it. A hacker can do it infinitely better than a techie who can already do this infinitely better than a lay person. Also, ANYONE can VERY EASILY do a standard IP check which will include hostname, location, etc. (see info one gets below - with my IP but everything crossed out - less than 15 seconds using google). You need to inform yourself on how the internet works, the technology behind it, etc. before you make your claims!


General IP Information
IP: xxxxxx
Decimal: xxxxxx
Hostname: xxxxx
ISP: xxx
Organization: xxx
Services: None detected
Type: Broadband
Assignment: xxx
Blacklist:
Geolocation Information
Country: xxx
State/Region: xxx
City: xxx
Latitude: xxx
Longitude: xxx
Location not accurate? Update your location

Geolocation Map
(includes map pinpointing your location)

redrock

g under p wrote:

RR you've brought here some very good logical points and I've learned a few thank you for participating in this exercise of the real world.

Peace

Fantasy, rosy, happy, la-la world is lovely and often much better than real world (for most) and I would love living there (I do like unicorns and rainbows) but, unfortunately, that's all it is.. fantasy. We need to deal with reality to be able to even contemplate tackling and trying to resolve any issues. Dreamland is not enough. Dreams may spark actions, but 'reality-checked'!

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

Hacks start with making a fake internet identity.
One can track true identities, like IP tracing but most people can't do these types of checks..

But they don't Pandora! You really don't understand. Even 'hiding' your IP is a kid's game - any lay person can do it. A hacker can do it infinitely better than a techie who can already do this infinitely better than a lay person. Also, ANYONE can VERY EASILY do a standard IP check which will include hostname, location, etc. (see info one gets below - with my IP but everything crossed out - less than 15 seconds using google). You need to inform yourself on how the internet works, the technology behind it, etc. before you make your claims!


General IP Information
IP: xxxxxx
Decimal: xxxxxx
Hostname: xxxxx
ISP: xxx
Organization: xxx
Services: None detected
Type: Broadband
Assignment: xxx
Blacklist:
Geolocation Information
Country: xxx
State/Region: xxx
City: xxx
Latitude: xxx
Longitude: xxx
Location not accurate? Update your location

Geolocation Map
(includes map pinpointing your location)

This true but we are speaking of just the regular folk ... the techies
the lay people as you call it. I know many techies personally,
I think not a true hacker ... yet
they are always learning though

The true hackers you speak of are after the big stuff, like corporations, govt security,
etc... and often get paid for their work.

Petty crime, stalking, bullying is being done by the lay person. This the crime effecting
most people on the internet. The crime mentioned in the thread.

Did you think I didn't know about IP addresses...

but thanks for the copy and paste there

Jeanwah

g under p wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

IT IS NO SECRET THAT GOVERNMENT GETTING INVOLVED IN INTERNET COMMUNICATIONS IS NOT ABOUT SECURITY; IT IS ABOUT CONTROL. If you choose to ignore this, you're a fool.

Wise words that were noted earlier in this thread....this proposal is about CONTROL not much else.

Peace

Can you tell I haven't read the whole thread?

g under p

Jeanwah wrote:

g under p wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

IT IS NO SECRET THAT GOVERNMENT GETTING INVOLVED IN INTERNET COMMUNICATIONS IS NOT ABOUT SECURITY; IT IS ABOUT CONTROL. If you choose to ignore this, you're a fool.

Wise words that were noted earlier in this thread....this proposal is about CONTROL not much else.

Peace

Can you tell I haven't read the whole thread?

I know and understand why....however I'm amazed with some of the absurdity, humour and knowledge that I continue to read on.

Peace

pandora

Paranoia is rampant in this thread when it comes to our govt. :?
which will spend 13.3 billion on cyber security initiatives coming into 2015

Big business cyber security ... our college grads take notice, what a great field of expertise
to choose in a time of limited jobs.

redrock

pandora wrote:

This true but we are speaking of just the regular folk ... the techies
the lay people as you call it. I know many techies personally,
I think not a true hacker ... yet
they are always learning though

The true hackers you speak of are after the big stuff, like corporations, govt security,
etc... and often get paid for their work.

Petty crime, stalking, bullying is being done by the lay person. This the crime effecting
most people on the internet. The crime mentioned in the thread.

Did you think I didn't know about IP addresses...

but thanks for the copy and paste there

All that I mentioned in my post is relevant to 'regular folk' - hiding your IP, tracking someone else's, etc. So you are in agreement that it's an easy thing to do and one could easily flaunt the law (should one require to post name, an address and IP number), whether one looks at the 'criminal' or 'victim' side. Though you call it 'petty' crime - not sure it always ends up 'petty'. Consequences of cyber crime can be quite dire and this law will do nothing to alleviate that - on the contrary.

I don't speak of 'true' hackers Pandora - you coined this. Hackers are hackers - all at different levels. The 'everyday/average' one will plant plant viruses in your computer, hack into your computer to get your bank details, your credit card details when you make purchases; he/she will know where to look to get your personal info (which will be damn easy with this bill), etc. They are NOT the 'mega' hackers as depicted in thrillers, criminal series, etc. - just skillful techies/or savvy internet users (with varying skill levels) . Not difficult at all. Of course there are the 'big time' hackers or white hat hackers but you know we are not talking about those - not many like The Condor will be interested in Pandora or Redrock.

And I did think you didn't know much about IP addresses and how easy it was to track since you did say: "
One can track true identities, like IP tracing but most people can't do these types of checks.. (though you now seem to contradict yourself). I assumed that if you knew how things worked you wouldn't have stated something so incorrect. Maybe your techie friends can refresh your 'knowledge' on these matters.

redrock

pandora wrote:

Paranoia is rampant in this thread when it comes to our govt. :?
which will spend 13.3 billion on cyber security initiatives coming into 2015

Big business cyber security ... our college grads take notice, what a great field of expertise
to choose in a time of limited jobs.

And rightly so. But you DO know what cyber security has nothing to do with posting 'nasties', don't you? (Sorry, just need to make sure since my last 'faux pas' )And that this bill does nothing to improve this.

If one wants to discuss cyber security, it is probably a lot more relevant to all the issues that have been mentioned that this bill could actually cause or aggravate.

redrock

g under p wrote:

I know and understand why....however I'm amazed with some of the absurdity, humour and knowledge that I continue to read on.

Peace

And I just get carried away, don't I? :oops: I should just try and let the absurd be just that....

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

This true but we are speaking of just the regular folk ... the techies
the lay people as you call it. I know many techies personally,
I think not a true hacker ... yet
they are always learning though

The true hackers you speak of are after the big stuff, like corporations, govt security,
etc... and often get paid for their work.

Petty crime, stalking, bullying is being done by the lay person. This the crime effecting
most people on the internet. The crime mentioned in the thread.

Did you think I didn't know about IP addresses...

but thanks for the copy and paste there

All that I mentioned in my post is relevant to 'regular folk' - hiding your IP, tracking someone else's, etc. So you are in agreement that it's an easy thing to do and one could easily flaunt the law (should one require to post name, an address and IP number), whether one looks at the 'criminal' or 'victim' side. Though you call it 'petty' crime - not sure it always ends up 'petty'. Consequences of cyber crime can be quite dire and this law will do nothing to alleviate that - on the contrary.

I don't speak of 'true' hackers Pandora - you coined this. Hackers are hackers - all at different levels. The 'everyday/average' one will plant plant viruses in your computer, hack into your computer to get your bank details, your credit card details when you make purchases; he/she will know where to look to get your personal info (which will be damn easy with this bill), etc. They are NOT the 'mega' hackers as depicted in thrillers, criminal series, etc. - just skillful techies/or savvy internet users (with varying skill levels) . Not difficult at all. Of course there are the 'big time' hackers or white hat hackers but you know we are not talking about those - not many like The Condor will be interested in Pandora or Redrock.

And I did think you didn't know much about IP addresses and how easy it was to track since you did say: "
One can track true identities, like IP tracing but most people can't do these types of checks.. (though you now seem to contradict yourself). I assumed that if you knew how things worked you wouldn't have stated something so incorrect. Maybe your techie friends can refresh your 'knowledge' on these matters.

I know this info you have included here, did you google?
Didn't google want everyone to do this proposal or something similar?

My most recent research has gone into cyber bullying and the effects on personal lives.
Heartbreaking for some to feel. It is important to feel what others are going through.
Their pain and personal trauma.

Hey I stand by my words... I still think most people can't
or I should maybe include don't do checks.
I know a few people in my age group and above
that couldn't tell you what an IP address was or what theirs was but their computer geek would.
Lots of people have great support in their computer geeks
me included but mine moved to Africa a few years back.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

Paranoia is rampant in this thread when it comes to our govt. :?
which will spend 13.3 billion on cyber security initiatives coming into 2015

Big business cyber security ... our college grads take notice, what a great field of expertise
to choose in a time of limited jobs.

And rightly so. But you DO know what cyber security has nothing to do with posting 'nasties', don't you? (Sorry, just need to make sure since my last 'faux pas' )And that this bill does nothing to improve this.

If one wants to discuss cyber security, it is probably a lot more relevant to all the issues that have been mentioned that this bill could actually cause or aggravate.

Hey thanks for reminding me! Nasties yes indeed, the bully's words.
These for all to see. People know the bullies even if they don't know their real names.

Yes it is nasties that the people in New York are talking about...
plain old nasty things being said based in lies and hate making other peoples
lives miserable. Very miserable.

If some people would do some research their hearts might lighten to the plight of others.

And yes this bill will help the nasties and the danger they present to others ...
it's a start at least.

redrock

pandora wrote:

I know this info you have included here, did you google?

Not sure what you mean? What have I googled? I did search my IP address in a previous post but what else are you talking about? :?:

pandora wrote:

Didn't google want everyone to do this proposal or something similar?.

Again :?: What 'proposal' are you talking about? I didn't mention a 'proposal' in my post :?

pandora wrote:

My most recent research has gone into cyber bullying and the effects on personal lives.
Heartbreaking for some to feel. It is important to feel what others are going through.
Their pain and personal trauma..

And...?

pandora wrote:

Hey I stand by my words... I still think most people can't .

You seem to put yourself above the majority of people again. How judgemental.

pandora wrote:

[/b]
or I should maybe include don't do checks. .

:?:

pandora wrote:

I know a few people in my age group and above
that couldn't tell you what an IP address was or what theirs was but their computer geek would.
Lots of people have great support in their computer geeks
me included but mine moved to Africa a few years back.

So? I guess those that don't have the support of their 'computer geek' don't talk about what they don't know then? No need to be a geek to be savvy. Not a problem if you don't know either - not everyone is bothered about this. As long as it works, as long as you get what you need out of something and you know where to do if it doesn't work. I'm not interested in cars - I know basics and I am not interested to get more in depth knowledge. Not an issue. But then, I don't post in car threads talk about more advanced mechanical stuff,pretending I know. I guess if you don't know, don't put forth incorrect 'facts' - check with computer geek first (unless he/she is no longer available to ask).