Ban 'anonymous' speech online?

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Comments

  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Cosmo wrote:
    g under p wrote:
    I do believe forums and websites can already do this without this proposal and no private info has to be given. Since you already own ways to curb cyberbullying why the great push to implement this proposal? The law then isn't a necessity, shed the blinkers and open up the view.
    peace
    ...
    Exactly. Haven't people been banned from this site for abusive language?
    Again... this is an area of a greater forum that is set aside for those difficult issues that have no simple solutions. If you can't take criticism from an opposing view... then, you probably shouldn't be argueing your viewpoint in the manner you have chosen... right?
    If you want happy thoughts where unicorns fart out cotton candy... there are places you can go and talk about meaningless shit like 'American Idol', instead of hot topics like abortion and gun control.

    There is a difference between adult behavior that is respectful and civil in debate and that
    which borderlines on immature towards an opposing side.
    Criticism really has no place in debate because it is not meant to be personal at all.
    Just state ones views and why.


    AI is not in the debate forum so it shouldn't be of concern to you or others who like to debate.
    There are many topics in other the forums... why would you point out AI?
    sometimes there are threads on some silly stuff but all in good fun and to each their own
    right? I think I have even heard you say this.
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Cosmo wrote:
    Think happy thoughts and say happy words... or i'll come over there and pound you shit full of happiness.
    Reminds me of that old Twilight Zone...except instead of pounded, sent to the cornfield.
    It's_A_Good_Life.jpg
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    mickeyrat wrote:
    who is the judge of what is or isnt slanderous or bullying?
    I would like to know this also as far as the law goes

    but I would think it may be different for different sites as someone mentioned.

    I think it would also pertain to the level of bullying and lies
    as far as effecting the victim of the abuse.
    Different scenarios have been used that have brought about the proposal.
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Cosmo wrote:
    If you want happy thoughts where unicorns fart out cotton candy... there are places you can go and talk about meaningless shit like 'American Idol', instead of hot topics like abortion and gun control.
    mickeyrat wrote:
    who is the judge of what is or isnt slanderous or bullying?

    hmmm, good question, Surely the 'Unicorns that fart out cotton candy..They are/should be the judge (right Cosmo :lol: )
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    I use the "ignore" feature found on many sites and forums. Works like a charm. And if they don't have that feature, I'm likely not going to use that sure for long.
    When one is under constant ridicule as the victims of bullies are
    and they use the ignore feature, it is still only they themselves that are ignoring.
    The rest of the world still sees the abuse, so of course it is still there.
    It does not go away. This, as I have read, does nothing to help the victim nor stop the bully.

    The bully is not stopped until they are punished and even then some will still continue,
    it's a need for them as the cowards that they are.

    This law will not hurt the average person, no info need be given out
    unless a post is requested upon of being abusive by the victim.
    This empowers the victim to stop the bully who will not
    want their info given out. The administrator will remove the comment and maybe that bully
    will not victimize again knowing the outcome.

    It is a deterrent.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Idris wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    If you want happy thoughts where unicorns fart out cotton candy... there are places you can go and talk about meaningless shit like 'American Idol', instead of hot topics like abortion and gun control.
    mickeyrat wrote:
    who is the judge of what is or isnt slanderous or bullying?

    hmmm, good question, Surely the 'Unicorns that fart out cotton candy..They are/should be the judge (right Cosmo :lol: )
    stock-photo-small-frog-on-a-lily-pad-in-a-pond-with-a-blooming-pink-lily-37387027.jpg
    Unicorns just never did it for me and yuk cotton candy :sick:
    but I'm partial to frogs myself with a kingdom of magical lily pads on which to sit 8-)
    all in good fun and to each their own :lol:
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Idris wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    If you want happy thoughts where unicorns fart out cotton candy... there are places you can go and talk about meaningless shit like 'American Idol', instead of hot topics like abortion and gun control.
    mickeyrat wrote:
    who is the judge of what is or isnt slanderous or bullying?

    hmmm, good question, Surely the 'Unicorns that fart out cotton candy..They are/should be the judge (right Cosmo :lol: )
    ...
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    edited June 2012
    Cosmo wrote:
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.
    So you don't think victims are ever brutalized by cyber bullies?
    Are you are making this the victims fault?
    Women are still found to be at fault for getting themselves raped too :?
    is this similar?
    You say they are all pansies and are in the wrong then? It is their fault for not being stronger?
    Do you feel this way about children too?
    Really cosmo?

    I think there are guidelines just as we have here on our site ... yes?
    to help with people being civil and respectful for each other but also for those
    visiting the forums, the band and our administrators.
    Post edited by pandora on
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    pandora wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.
    So you don't think victims are ever brutalized by cyber bullies?
    Are you are making this the victims fault?
    Women are still found to be at fault for getting themselves raped too :?
    is this similar?
    You say they are all pansies and are in the wrong then? It is their fault for not being stronger?
    Do you feel this way about children too?
    Really cosmos?
    I could be mistaken, but I took the fucking pansy thing as folks being overly-sensitive and thin-skinned.

    Regardless, you somehow jumped from THAT to your rape and children comments?

    Wow. Just fucking wow.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist wrote:
    I could be mistaken, but I took the fucking pansy thing as folks being overly-sensitive and thin-skinned.
    Regardless, you somehow jumped from THAT to your rape and children comments?

    Wow. Just fucking wow.
    ...
    Hey, Hedo.
    It's called, 'Bait'.
    I figured out, it's not worth the time.
    ...
    Anyway, a couple of good shows on the horizon by a couple of the nicest musicians I can think of (other than McCready)... Chris Shifflet of the Foo Fighters is playing a free show at the Echo on Sunday... John Doe of X fame will be doing a gig at the Galaxy Theater in Santa Ana on June 14th.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Cosmo wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    I could be mistaken, but I took the fucking pansy thing as folks being overly-sensitive and thin-skinned.
    Regardless, you somehow jumped from THAT to your rape and children comments?

    Wow. Just fucking wow.
    ...
    Hey, Hedo.
    It's called, 'Bait'.
    I figured out, it's not worth the time.
    ...
    Anyway, a couple of good shows on the horizon by a couple of the nicest musicians I can think of (other than McCready)... Chris Shifflet of the Foo Fighters is playing a free show at the Echo on Sunday... John Doe of X fame will be doing a gig at the Galaxy Theater in Santa Ana on June 14th.
    You're right; I should've known.

    And thank you for the heads-up on those shows, my friend!
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Cosmo wrote:
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.

    Yep, 'I couldn't agree more'
    -
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Awwww... here I was thinking that after a few 'reality' posts discussing the possible ramifications of the bill, this thread was back on track. How naive of me. It's 'back' to this whole misinformation (like now giving your details is optional :?), pathos bully thing again, but this time with added comparison with raped women and bullied children being at fault (and underhanded accusations) :fp:

    I guess it's back to canstock5785546.jpg on the subject.

    Though we still have unicorns :mrgreen:

    And Shifty is playing a free show! :mrgreen: (Not that I can go....)
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,615
    Cosmo wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    I could be mistaken, but I took the fucking pansy thing as folks being overly-sensitive and thin-skinned.
    Regardless, you somehow jumped from THAT to your rape and children comments?

    Wow. Just fucking wow.
    ...
    Hey, Hedo.
    It's called, 'Bait'.
    I figured out, it's not worth the time.
    ...
    Anyway, a couple of good shows on the horizon by a couple of the nicest musicians I can think of (other than McCready)... Chris Shifflet of the Foo Fighters is playing a free show at the Echo on Sunday... John Doe of X fame will be doing a gig at the Galaxy Theater in Santa Ana on June 14th.


    X is playing a show at Hollywood Park racetrack on June 15 at 10:30....after the last race!
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    edited June 2012
    hedonist wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.
    So you don't think victims are ever brutalized by cyber bullies?
    Are you are making this the victims fault?
    Women are still found to be at fault for getting themselves raped too :?
    is this similar?
    You say they are all pansies and are in the wrong then? It is their fault for not being stronger?
    Do you feel this way about children too?
    Really cosmos?
    I could be mistaken, but I took the fucking pansy thing as folks being overly-sensitive and thin-skinned.

    Regardless, you somehow jumped from THAT to your rape and children comments?

    Wow. Just fucking wow.
    Of course because to minimize what is happening to others allows it to happen... like rape and child victimization. I'm sure you can see the connection. Cyber abuse is real!
    Post edited by pandora on
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Hey, Hedo.
    It's called, 'Bait'.
    I figured out, it's not worth the time.
    ...
    No its called debate. This what we are doing here discussing the topic.
    You made a statement based in opinion I asked for clarification with questions.

    But then you call it bait. Is this what debaters do? No they clarify if they can.

    Hopefully you can and will back up your statement
    as to why you use the word "pansies" to describe real victims of cyber abuse.
    which this proposal is intended to help.

    Definition

    pansie


    weakling; wimp.

    a wuss, weak, a word used to insult a person. Also panzi.

    a male scared to do anything that a male, or in extreme cases female, would normally do with ease (see also wuss).

    A person who acts sissy-like and is not manly enough. Mostly a sissy man.

    someone very pathetic and wimpy, generally used as an insult against both sexes.
    a sissy


    I edited out all references to gay men as that is hurtful and I assume was not your intent
    to include.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    Awwww... here I was thinking that after a few 'reality' posts discussing the possible ramifications of the bill, this thread was back on track. How naive of me. It's 'back' to this whole misinformation (like now giving your details is optional :?), pathos bully thing again, but this time with added comparison with raped women and bullied children being at fault (and underhanded accusations) :fp:

    I guess it's back to canstock5785546.jpg on the subject.

    Though we still have unicorns :mrgreen:

    And Shifty is playing a free show! :mrgreen: (Not that I can go....)
    The comparison is real in that cyber bulling makes real victims of no fault of their own.
    In the past rape and child victimization was often dismissed, still is in some places of the world.
    And it seems this propsal which would give a victim direct recourse against a bully,
    while allowing others to keep their privacy, is being dismissed
    just as cyber bullying is being dismissed when someone calls the victims "pansies".
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Idris wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.

    Yep, 'I couldn't agree more'
    -
    Do I understand in that you are agreeing with the entire statement?

    That victims of cyber abuse are "pansies"?

    It appears some who oppose the new law which does not remove any rights
    or privacy for anyone other than an abusive bully,
    but allows a victim the opportunity to remove hurtful and abusive actions
    against them,
    may have a slightly biased opinion of the victims.

    It is this bias that allows bullies to bully both on the internet and in every day life.
    It is the basis to allowing hate against minorities or those that are deemed different.

    Hate is something we must work against anywhere we find it.
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.


    Ding, ding, ding!!! Winning post, right here. It's all perspective how we take words written on a page.
  • bindy123bindy123 Posts: 210
    edited June 2012
    Jeanwah wrote:
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    On a positive note, I am thankful that 99% of people in this thread are of the same opinion regarding this proposed law.

    That 1% only takes the other side because it ticks everyone else off... I hope everyone can see this so they don't bother arguing a moot point going forward.


    I would argue that you in fact had the winning post back there...thankfully I saw the wisdom of this post, took your advice and escaped this twilight zone type thread...escape people...and by the way, the winner of an arguement isnt determined by the one who gets the last word in...

    Oh and Jeanwah, that is definately in the top 5 Avatars in the club, really love it
    Post edited by bindy123 on
    "God created surfing and Pearl Jam so that the truely gifted, talented and most intelligent people wouldnt rule the world"...adapted from my bumper sticker
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.


    Ding, ding, ding!!! Winning post, right here. It's all perspective how we take words written on a page.
    WE no I disagree it is how the victim of cyber bullying takes what is written.

    They are real victims not pansies!

    If this wasn't so sad it would be almost humorous.
    Another person dismissing :fp: this has got to come from not researching what
    is happening to others....

    or ... what else could it be?

    One can only hope I guess that some people will realize the need to help people
    who are being bullied.


    This proposal does this without removing anyone's rights or privacies.
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    bindy123 wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    On a positive note, I am thankful that 99% of people in this thread are of the same opinion regarding this proposed law.

    That 1% only takes the other side because it ticks everyone else off... I hope everyone can see this so they don't bother arguing a moot point going forward.


    I would argue that you in fact had the winning post back there...thankfully I saw the wisdom of this post, took your advice and escaped this twilight zone type thread...escape people...and by the way, the winner of an arguement isnt determined by the one who gets the last word in...

    Oh and Jeanwah, that is definately in the top 5 Avatars in the club, really love it

    Thanks Bindy! And you're right; it's time to escape this thread for good.

    I especially like your bolded sentence. :)
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    bindy123 wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    On a positive note, I am thankful that 99% of people in this thread are of the same opinion regarding this proposed law.

    That 1% only takes the other side because it ticks everyone else off... I hope everyone can see this so they don't bother arguing a moot point going forward.


    I would argue that you in fact had the winning post back there...thankfully I saw the wisdom of this post, took your advice and escaped this twilight zone type thread...escape people...

    And by the way Jeanwah, that is definately in the top 5 Avatars in the club, really love it
    You are supporting the fact that I should not debate what I believe in? :fp:

    You do understand this law is very similar to what we have right here.

    That no one gives up their right to free speech or privacy.

    That if a post is made that victimizes another, that victim,upon request,
    can ask for info of the abuser.
    The administrator can ask for this from the abuser,
    the abuser does not have to provide it and then the post is deleted.

    This empowers the victims against the cyber bully.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Jeanwah wrote:
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    On a positive note, I am thankful that 99% of people in this thread are of the same opinion regarding this proposed law.

    That 1% only takes the other side because it ticks everyone else off... I hope everyone can see this so they don't bother arguing a moot point going forward.


    pandora wrote:
    bindy123 wrote:

    I would argue that you in fact had the winning post back there...thankfully I saw the wisdom of this post, took your advice and escaped this twilight zone type thread...escape people...

    And by the way Jeanwah, that is definately in the top 5 Avatars in the club, really love it
    You are supporting the fact that I should not debate what I believe in? :fp:

    You do understand this law is very similar to what we have right here.

    That no one gives up their right to free speech or privacy.

    That if a post is made that victimizes another, that victim,upon request,
    can ask for info of the abuser.
    The administrator can ask for this from the abuser,
    the abuser does not have to provide it and then the post is deleted.

    This empowers the victims against the cyber bully.

    Some of what has transpired in this thread reminds of the lyrics from the 2.gif song LIMELIGHT.

    Amazing.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    g under p wrote:
    Some of what has transpired in this thread reminds of the lyrics from the 2.gif song LIMELIGHT.

    Amazing.

    Peace
    Excellent analogy, Mr. g.

    Hoping to see them in November!
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    hedonist wrote:
    g under p wrote:
    Some of what has transpired in this thread reminds of the lyrics from the 2.gif song LIMELIGHT.

    Amazing.

    Peace
    Excellent analogy, Mr. g.

    Hoping to see them in November!

    Tell me about it, I get moist just thinking about my trip to Tampa in November too. :mrgreen:

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    pandora wrote:
    Idris wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    That's the thing... it is relative (subjective).
    Anyone can take anything and claim it to be hostile or mean spirited. Because someone takes offense... does that make it a case of 'bullying'? If so, who gets to make the call on that? The moderator, the person who makes the comment or the fucking pansie that finds every little fucking thing offensive and politically incorrect?
    Forcing everyone to say nice shit... does not make everyone nice people.

    Yep, 'I couldn't agree more'
    -
    Do I understand in that you are agreeing with the entire statement?

    That victims of cyber abuse are "pansies"?

    I got a different angle on what Cosmo was saying in the 'pansie' line. The point, I think, was that its too hard to determine what precisely is bullying (sometimes). And I think that line suggests that some things said on the internet might be taken in a different context, and a person accused of bullying cant be held liable for another persons misinterpretation of something that was harmless. Kinda like what's going on in this very thread, I think a few people arent on the same page, and interpretation is a grey area.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855

    I got a different angle on what Cosmo was saying in the 'pansie' line. The point, I think, was that its too hard to determine what precisely is bullying (sometimes). And I think that line suggests that some things said on the internet might be taken in a different context, and a person accused of bullying cant be held liable for another persons misinterpretation of something that was harmless. Kinda like what's going on in this very thread, I think a few people arent on the same page, and interpretation is a grey area.
    great post Jonny

    That sometimes is really the answer and with cyber bullying it is clear
    when there is abuse. We are not talking about innuendo.
    We are not talking about off color.
    We are not talking misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

    This proposal wants to bring help like what we have here to victims everywhere.
    A chance to confront a bully with the help of an administrator and if a bully
    does not want this the post is removed. It is meant to be a deterrent
    and it empowers the victims of abuse.

    People are well aware of innuendo and sometimes shocked at off color but
    that is not what the victims of cyber bullying are experiencing.

    Stop the Hate! ... I just heard a great thing on news radio about this.
    It is targeting all bullying as an awareness campaign. It is awesome! :D
  • markin ballmarkin ball Posts: 1,075
    Oh, yeah?
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Oh, yeah?
    Could be end of the week brain fry, but this response tickled me :mrgreen:
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