Ban 'anonymous' speech online?

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    edited May 2012
    pandora wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Huh How? ...
    I'm thinking a pervert is not going to identify them self ... correct ????
    and so you think they will attack in person??? I'm lost here I guess on your meaning.

    It is more than hurt feelings, there we go again dismissing bullies and what they do to other
    peoples lives.
    :roll: :roll: :roll: That's not what anyone is doing at all. What everyone else is doing is looking at the issue clearly and realistically in its entirety, while you are confronting it with a very narrow viewpoint. Including a narrow viewpoint on bullying and the issues surrounding internet bullying, while ignoring all the other MASSIVE issues surrounding this topic.
    I am seeing the future of the internet with great possibilities not of losing something
    but gaining much more.

    The narrow mind for me is the negative fearful one.
    That doesn't make any sense to me. There are ways to deal with bullying and peverts. There aren't ways to deal with the lack of anonymity once it's lost. The freedom of the internet - to be able to express yourself without people being able to identify you - is one of the greatest steps towards individual freedom, freedom of expression, and a right to privacy that we've had as a society. You don't just throw that all away because of some problems that can be dealt with without destroying that freedom.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    No I've been to the meetings they are really great, met wonderful people and even learned last names...
    go figure

    first name only is optional

    in this proposal we are saying that one must give name address etc when they are lying

    Thus ANONYMOUS unless one chooses to share details - face to face does not change anything - you do not know who you are dealing with, do not know if their 'history' they are sharing is real, etc. Don't kid yourself.


    I think you misread the proposal:

    "According to the proposed legislation, the administrator of any website hosted in New York State shall, upon request, remove comments that were “posted on his or her website by an anonymous poster unless such anonymous poster agreed to attach his or her name to the post and confirm that his or her IP address, legal name and home address are accurate."

    UPON REQUEST... just like that.
    I agree with the proposal, I agree with that aspect. I would like to see in the future
    the internet lose all anonymity and become something much more awesome.
    And sorry I did not mean to have that sound like AA and you ...
    I wrote what I felt from my experience, the meetings rock, I was extremely impressed
    with the people and content, then I said red as yes a play or shortened version of on your name.
    Sorry. :oops: stupid me.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    That doesn't make any sense to anyone.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    [
    I am seeing the future of the internet with great possibilities not of losing something
    but gaining much more.

    The narrow mind for me is the negative fearful one.
    That doesn't make any sense to me.
    Well ok our minds don't meet.

    I have learned that fears hold us back in everything we do, personally and as a species.
    The internet of 2075 will be much different.
    It will be a gas and it will be a kinder gentler place.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited May 2012
    pandora wrote:
    in this proposal we are saying that one must give name address etc when they are lying
    redrock wrote:
    I think you misread the proposal:

    "According to the proposed legislation, the administrator of any website hosted in New York State shall, upon request, remove comments that were “posted on his or her website by an anonymous poster unless such anonymous poster agreed to attach his or her name to the post and confirm that his or her IP address, legal name and home address are accurate."

    UPON REQUEST... just like that.
    pandora wrote:
    I agree with the proposal,.

    So you agree that it's not about ONLY when one is lying. That you misunderstood this 'lying' business. OK then. It seems you agree with a real big brother scenario here. Fair enough - if you wish to live under the thumb of a government that takes away more and more of your rights and that controls/monitors your everyday life.... There have been films about that - called science fiction - and usually watched with disbelief.

    Edit - quotes went all wonky but no time to sort out.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    pandora wrote:

    If you want professional help go to a website with resources and live chat.

    But don't the perverts live there?
    at BCBS I do't think so :?
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Think of it as your car is a computer to ride the web you must be identified.
    Just as we are now on the road.
    That's the way I picture it in the future, at least. I think it will be much improvement
    getting rid of illegal behavior not only the bullying and perverts.
    It will also bring accountability to everyone.

    :?: 'We' identify ourselves with all our details, potentially allowing people to hack into bank accounts etc. when we are on the road? Anyone can drive my car. My car is not me.
    Will there be bank accounts? ;)

    I think maybe you are trying hard not to see the internet
    as the world wide web it will become.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    pandora wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    [
    I am seeing the future of the internet with great possibilities not of losing something
    but gaining much more.

    The narrow mind for me is the negative fearful one.
    That doesn't make any sense to me.
    Well ok our minds don't meet.

    I have learned that fears hold us back in everything we do, personally and as a species.
    The internet of 2075 will be much different.
    It will be a gas and it will be a kinder gentler place.
    Actually, fear can be a healthy thing - keeps some species alive, us included.

    Anyway, back on the merry-go-round!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:

    So you agree that it's not about ONLY when one is lying. That you misunderstood this 'lying' business. OK then. It seems you agree with a real big brother scenario here. Fair enough - if you wish to live under the thumb of a government that takes away more and more of your rights and that controls/monitors your everyday life.... There have been films about that - called science fiction - and usually watched with disbelief.
    A lot of sci fi is coming true or no? Grain of truth in just about everything
    but for sure in sci fi. 8-)

    I agree with being accountable for one's words. This will stop people from being able to hide.
    They must stand up for what they say or don't say it. I think lying was the biggest example
    and that means the politicians too. It will stop the bullies and other predators.
    That is what this proposal is all about .

    Again fear not really what I am all about I see the positives.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist wrote:
    Actually, fear can be a healthy thing - keeps some species alive, us included.

    Anyway, back on the merry-go-round!
    ...
    If there wasn't fear... would there be the need for locks?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Monster Rain
    Monster Rain Posts: 1,415
    pandora wrote:
    Monster Rain wrote:
    Who says a pervert has to post on a site in order to see its content? You can view many forums without registering and even if you register you don't have to post, so who would know that there's a pervert on the board? Al that person needs to know is your name and they can find out a lot about you. Also, unless the person's real name is Ima Pervert, it's gonna be hard to tell based solely on the name.
    Think of it as your car is a computer to ride the web you must be identified.
    Just as we are now on the road.
    That's the way I picture it in the future, at least. I think it will be much improvement
    getting rid of illegal behavior not only the bullying and perverts.
    It will also bring accountability to everyone.

    How will identifying yourself if you post a mean comment online get rid of illegal behavior? Also, how is the Internet anything like driving a car? If I don't learn how to drive a car, I can wind up killing myself or someone else. Typing too fast isn't going to hurt anyone.

    Also, this won't do anything to get rid of perverts because it would only apply if the pervert posted a mean comment and had also done something that identified himself as a pervert.

    Another point: what if someone is in my house and uses my computer while I'm not home or out of the room? Now my name is being attached to someone else's words? What if someone uses a computer in a public library or free Wi-Fi in a restaurant? One of the most important aspects about laws (aside from the legality of passing such a law in the first place and the need for the law or lackthereof) is that it needs to be enforceable. Short of the government deciding to outlaw wireless communication, this law is impossible to enforce. I can just go to Starbucks, use my phone to create a new username for a forum, only post under that name from places that offer free Wi-Fi and bully whoever I want. It's an impractical "solution" to a problem that is not nearly as widespread as people might think.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    pandora wrote:
    I think maybe you are trying hard not to see the internet
    as the world wide web it will become.

    Oh.. I know plenty about the internet. Don't make assumptions again. And if by 'it will become' you mean how YOU see it - that won't happen. That is not the nature of the world wide web. But if that's what you like to believe - so be it.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    hedonist wrote:
    Actually, fear can be a healthy thing - keeps some species alive, us included.

    Anyway, back on the merry-go-round!
    One can almost picture the web of the future in that also.
    Like a merry go round, a positive fun place filled with friends and good times....
    No jerks knocking little kids off their horses or stealing their popcorn. ;)
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    edited May 2012
    pandora wrote:
    redrock wrote:

    So you agree that it's not about ONLY when one is lying. That you misunderstood this 'lying' business. OK then. It seems you agree with a real big brother scenario here. Fair enough - if you wish to live under the thumb of a government that takes away more and more of your rights and that controls/monitors your everyday life.... There have been films about that - called science fiction - and usually watched with disbelief.
    A lot of sci fi is coming true or no? Grain of truth in just about everything
    but for sure in sci fi. 8-)

    I agree with being accountable for one's words. This will stop people from being able to hide.
    They must stand up for what they say or don't say it. I think lying was the biggest example
    and that means the politicians too. It will stop the bullies and other predators.
    That is what this proposal is all about .

    Again fear not really what I am all about I see the positives.
    I don't think that increasing the ability of corporations and hackers to spam or screw you over by about 1000% is positive at all. I don't see having to identify yourself when you don't want to be identified is positive either. I don't think that anything that might muzzle dissent against corporations or government is positive either.
    Get off the fear thing... I don't think that any of us here are on some kind of fear train at all; only pointing out some very valid possibilities if privacy rights are taken away. You kind of just made that "love not fear" thing and are running with it as far as I can tell. I think we are all just looking at the thing from all angles, and that you have tunnel vision, and are not considering all of the negatives (obviously, if you think that a law like this can only lead to positive things). Should the government start blocking certain websites too??? Geez.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    edited May 2012
    pandora wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Actually, fear can be a healthy thing - keeps some species alive, us included.

    Anyway, back on the merry-go-round!
    One can almost picture the web of the future in that also.
    Like a merry go round, a positive fun place filled with friends and good times....
    No jerks knocking little kids off their horses or stealing their popcorn. ;)
    I wish I had rainbows and lollipops coming out of my ass too!! :lol: Why in the world should the internet only be positive and fun????
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    pandora wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    pandora wrote:

    If you want professional help go to a website with resources and live chat.

    But don't the perverts live there?
    at BCBS I do't think so :?
    Basel Committee on Banking Supervision?
    Blue Cross Blue Shield?
    8-)

    You said it yourself. How can one be sure who is at 'the other end' of live chats or web-based help? Could be perverts because that's what they do.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I think maybe you are trying hard not to see the internet
    as the world wide web it will become.

    Oh.. I know plenty about the internet. Don't make assumptions again. And if by 'it will become' you mean how YOU see it - that won't happen. That is not the nature of the world wide web. But if that's what you like to believe - so be it.
    thank you, I will believe that the web can be something much better than what it is today.
    A kinder gentler world wide web.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:



    Basel Committee on Banking Supervision?
    Blue Cross Blue Shield?
    8-)

    You said it yourself. How can one be sure who is at 'the other end' of live chats or web-based help? Could be perverts because that's what they do.
    I don't think they hire perverts do you? If they do it would be a very short lived job :lol:
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited May 2012
    pandora wrote:
    redrock wrote:



    Basel Committee on Banking Supervision?
    Blue Cross Blue Shield?
    8-)

    You said it yourself. How can one be sure who is at 'the other end' of live chats or web-based help? Could be perverts because that's what they do.
    I don't think they hire perverts do you? If they do it would be a very short lived job :lol:

    And how would they know? Would one advertise he/she is a pervert? 'Hey... I'm looking for a job here but I'm a pervert so I suppose you won't want to hire me?'

    Where I'm getting at is, if you fear bullies and pervs - they can be anywhere (web and reality) and we are non the wiser. But you said yourself that they HIDE behind the web and the self help sites.

    Though I still don't know that BCBS is as it just came out of the blue.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    There are ways to deal with bullying and peverts. There aren't ways to deal with the lack of anonymity once it's lost. The freedom of the internet - to be able to express yourself without people being able to identify you - is one of the greatest steps towards individual freedom, freedom of expression, and a right to privacy that we've had as a society. You don't just throw that all away because of some problems that can be dealt with without destroying that freedom.
    No one is losing a right or a freedom speak away just stand behind your words...
    it means everyone must do the same. Why must you be anonymous to say what you just said?

    Same as signing a petition, carrying a sign, standing up for what you believe ...
    stand behind your words they are your beliefs.

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