Ban 'anonymous' speech online?

redrock

catefrances wrote:

so now we gotta assume everyone on the internet is a 60 year old pervert??? :roll:

Just give me another few years....

catefrances

and i repeat... how is our legitimate ID going to be verified???

pandora

redrock wrote:

AA - Alcoholics ANONYMOUS

'nuf said.

face to face ... have you been, the meetings rock!... red

PJ_Soul

pandora wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

pandora wrote:

Well guess they will have to seek real help not pretend help when the internet is no longer anonymous.
Real help has real solutions from real people that make a difference.
There are still anonymous ways to do this face to face.
Best to get help where you know for sure it is coming.
As I mentioned many websites have live chat
with professionals and other resources to guide those who need it.

I think of the young who think they are speaking to another young person about their sexuality
and it is really a 60 year old pervert getting their jollies. This is a negative to anonymity.

What's wrong with anonymous help from someone online who has experienced the same problem or is also experiencing it now? Isn't that what groups like Alcoholics Anonymous are for? For some people that works, for some it doesn't. The same can be said for professional help. Some people go into rehab and fall right back into their old habits when they get out, others stay clean for the rest of their lives. And the families and friends of those people might just find a similar group of people online with whom they can share experiences and it's much more helpful to them than sitting in a room of people from their own community because they don't want their neighbors, co-workers, etc. knowing their family's personal business.

You skipped over the pervert too. What's up with that?

Does that not make you the least bit creeped to think you are talking about your sex life
or your child is to a 60 year old pervert?
The anonymous internet is not safe and one should not think it is.

It is great for guidance and info to take you to real help.
You do not know who you are speaking to.

Part of addiction and AA is saying what you are ... owning it.
That is what gets a person well. Facing it. Facing it to family friends and yes even neighbors.
Face to face.

Okay, fine, if it's so important for you that it's spelled out even though it doesn't change the points we're making ... kids need to be taught shit - it's not the violation of privacy rights that will stop perverts online. It's educating kids to know how to conduct themselves online and to know the signs of perversion (lol). Child molesters and pedophiles can be found by police with IP addresses if something bad happens anyway.
As I said, I think your view of the issue is quite limited. As someone else said, you've got a "throw the baby out with the bath water" mentality.

norm

catefrances wrote:

so now we gotta assume everyone on the internet is a 60 year old pervert??? :roll:

i have to wait until i'm sixty?? but am getting so good at it! :( :P

catefrances

norm wrote:

catefrances wrote:

so now we gotta assume everyone on the internet is a 60 year old pervert??? :roll:

i have to wait until i'm sixty?? but am getting so good at it! :( :P

theres always exceptions norm.

norm

catefrances wrote:

norm wrote:

catefrances wrote:

so now we gotta assume everyone on the internet is a 60 year old pervert??? :roll:

i have to wait until i'm sixty?? but am getting so good at it! :( :P

theres always exceptions norm.

WOO HOO!!

Monster Rain

pandora wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

pandora wrote:

Well guess they will have to seek real help not pretend help when the internet is no longer anonymous.
Real help has real solutions from real people that make a difference.
There are still anonymous ways to do this face to face.
Best to get help where you know for sure it is coming.
As I mentioned many websites have live chat
with professionals and other resources to guide those who need it.

I think of the young who think they are speaking to another young person about their sexuality
and it is really a 60 year old pervert getting their jollies. This is a negative to anonymity.

What's wrong with anonymous help from someone online who has experienced the same problem or is also experiencing it now? Isn't that what groups like Alcoholics Anonymous are for? For some people that works, for some it doesn't. The same can be said for professional help. Some people go into rehab and fall right back into their old habits when they get out, others stay clean for the rest of their lives. And the families and friends of those people might just find a similar group of people online with whom they can share experiences and it's much more helpful to them than sitting in a room of people from their own community because they don't want their neighbors, co-workers, etc. knowing their family's personal business.

You skipped over the pervert too. What's up with that?

Does that not make you the least bit creeped to think you are talking about your sex life
or your child is to a 60 year old pervert?
The anonymous internet is not safe and one should not think it is.

It is great for guidance and info to take you to real help.
You do not know who you are speaking to.

Part of addiction and AA is saying what you are ... owning it.
That is what gets a person well. Facing it. Facing it to family friends and yes even neighbors.
Face to face.

You dont have to tell your neighbors you're an alcoholic in order to get help. You don't have to tell your neighbors that your brother/sister/husband/wife/cousin/whatever is an alcoholic in order to cope with the feelings you have. Some people don't have kind 1950s television neighbors. Who wants to be judged or expose their loved one to judgment at the hands of some preachy members of your community and be the subject of gossip around town? Hmm, that sounds like something but what could it be? Oh yeah, it sounds like bullying.

redrock

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

AA - Alcoholics ANONYMOUS

'nuf said.

face to face ... have you been, the meetings rock!... red

But anonymous. No real name if not wanted. Not having to 'prove' who you are, where you live, etc. Face to face doesn't mean anything when it comes to things that you seem to think are issues online. You need to get real with this.

And, by the way what are you trying to insinuate? That I am an alcoholic that requires treatment? Talk about slander! If this is an attempt at humour, you have missed the mark.

pandora

Monster Rain wrote:

pandora wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

The internet isn't "pretend help". Millions of people have found REAL help online for so many things. But as I and others have also mentioned, there are many many reasons why anonymity can be important, this topic is not limited to these kinds of scenarios. Plus no one, especially not one person on a PJ forum, can say what kind of help might be best for individuals or what might be available to people.
I think your view of this issue is very limited. Sorry.

You didn't mention the pervert? How come?

If you're so concerned with the perverts online, why do you want to force people to reveal their real names? Wouldn't that change the danger kids face online from bullies to perverts? That's a big step down, don't you think? You want to protect people from hurt feelings, but this could expose them to real physical danger that could potentially be life-threatening. Don't you think there are more perverts in the world than kids killing themselves because of online bullies?

Huh How? ...
I'm thinking a pervert is not going to identify them self ... correct ????
and so you think they will attack in person??? I'm lost here I guess on your meaning.

It is more than hurt feelings, there we go again dismissing bullies and what they do to other
peoples lives.

PJ_Soul

pandora wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

pandora wrote:

You didn't mention the pervert? How come?

If you're so concerned with the perverts online, why do you want to force people to reveal their real names? Wouldn't that change the danger kids face online from bullies to perverts? That's a big step down, don't you think? You want to protect people from hurt feelings, but this could expose them to real physical danger that could potentially be life-threatening. Don't you think there are more perverts in the world than kids killing themselves because of online bullies?

Huh How? ...
I'm thinking a pervert is not going to identify them self ... correct ????
and so you think they will attack in person??? I'm lost here I guess on your meaning.

It is more than hurt feelings, there we go again dismissing bullies and what they do to other
peoples lives.

:roll: :roll: :roll: That's not what anyone is doing at all. What everyone else is doing is looking at the issue clearly and realistically in its entirety, while you are confronting it with a very narrow viewpoint. Including a narrow viewpoint on bullying and the issues surrounding internet bullying, while ignoring all the other MASSIVE issues surrounding this topic.

Monster Rain

pandora wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

pandora wrote:

You didn't mention the pervert? How come?

If you're so concerned with the perverts online, why do you want to force people to reveal their real names? Wouldn't that change the danger kids face online from bullies to perverts? That's a big step down, don't you think? You want to protect people from hurt feelings, but this could expose them to real physical danger that could potentially be life-threatening. Don't you think there are more perverts in the world than kids killing themselves because of online bullies?

Huh How? ...
I'm thinking a pervert is not going to identify them self ... correct ????
and so you think they will attack in person??? I'm lost here I guess on your meaning.

It is more than hurt feelings, there we go again dismissing bullies and what they do to other
peoples lives.

Who says a pervert has to post on a site in order to see its content? You can view many forums without registering and even if you register you don't have to post, so who would know that there's a pervert on the board? Al that person needs to know is your name and they can find out a lot about you. Also, unless the person's real name is Ima Pervert, it's gonna be hard to tell based solely on the name.

edit to add: Also, the beauty of anonymity is that you don't get to know anything about me unless I choose to share, so please don't assume that I don't know anything about being bullied.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

AA - Alcoholics ANONYMOUS

'nuf said.

face to face ... have you been, the meetings rock!... red

But anonymous. No real name if not wanted. Not having to 'prove' who you are, where you live, etc. Face to face doesn't mean anything when it comes to things that you seem to think are issues online. You need to get real with this.

And, by the way what are you trying to insinuate? That I am an alcoholic that requires treatment? Talk about slander! If this is an attempt at humour, you have missed the mark.

No I've been to the meetings they are really great, met wonderful people and even learned last names...


first name only is optional

in this proposal we are saying that one must give name address etc when they are lying

pandora

Monster Rain wrote:

pandora wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

If you're so concerned with the perverts online, why do you want to force people to reveal their real names? Wouldn't that change the danger kids face online from bullies to perverts? That's a big step down, don't you think? You want to protect people from hurt feelings, but this could expose them to real physical danger that could potentially be life-threatening. Don't you think there are more perverts in the world than kids killing themselves because of online bullies?

Huh How? ...
I'm thinking a pervert is not going to identify them self ... correct ????
and so you think they will attack in person??? I'm lost here I guess on your meaning.

It is more than hurt feelings, there we go again dismissing bullies and what they do to other
peoples lives.

Who says a pervert has to post on a site in order to see its content? You can view many forums without registering and even if you register you don't have to post, so who would know that there's a pervert on the board? Al that person needs to know is your name and they can find out a lot about you. Also, unless the person's real name is Ima Pervert, it's gonna be hard to tell based solely on the name.

Think of it as your car is a computer to ride the web you must be identified.
Just as we are now on the road.
That's the way I picture it in the future, at least. I think it will be much improvement
getting rid of illegal behavior not only the bullying and perverts.
It will also bring accountability to everyone.

pandora

PJ_Soul wrote:

pandora wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

If you're so concerned with the perverts online, why do you want to force people to reveal their real names? Wouldn't that change the danger kids face online from bullies to perverts? That's a big step down, don't you think? You want to protect people from hurt feelings, but this could expose them to real physical danger that could potentially be life-threatening. Don't you think there are more perverts in the world than kids killing themselves because of online bullies?

Huh How? ...
I'm thinking a pervert is not going to identify them self ... correct ????
and so you think they will attack in person??? I'm lost here I guess on your meaning.

It is more than hurt feelings, there we go again dismissing bullies and what they do to other
peoples lives.

:roll: :roll: :roll: That's not what anyone is doing at all. What everyone else is doing is looking at the issue clearly and realistically in its entirety, while you are confronting it with a very narrow viewpoint. Including a narrow viewpoint on bullying and the issues surrounding internet bullying, while ignoring all the other MASSIVE issues surrounding this topic.

I am seeing the future of the internet with great possibilities not of losing something
but gaining much more.

The narrow mind for me is the negative fearful one.

redrock

pandora wrote:

No I've been to the meetings they are really great, met wonderful people and even learned last names...
go figure

first name only is optional

in this proposal we are saying that one must give name address etc when they are lying

Thus ANONYMOUS unless one chooses to share details - face to face does not change anything - you do not know who you are dealing with, do not know if their 'history' they are sharing is real, etc. Don't kid yourself.


I think you misread the proposal:

"According to the proposed legislation, the administrator of any website hosted in New York State shall, upon request, remove comments that were “posted on his or her website by an anonymous poster unless such anonymous poster agreed to attach his or her name to the post and confirm that his or her IP address, legal name and home address are accurate."

UPON REQUEST... just like that.

pandora

Monster Rain wrote:

[
You dont have to tell your neighbors you're an alcoholic in order to get help. You don't have to tell your neighbors that your brother/sister/husband/wife/cousin/whatever is an alcoholic in order to cope with the feelings you have. Some people don't have kind 1950s television neighbors. Who wants to be judged or expose their loved one to judgment at the hands of some preachy members of your community and be the subject of gossip around town? Hmm, that sounds like something but what could it be? Oh yeah, it sounds like bullying.

You don't have to tell them in the real world but it can help in facing the problem, this I have
learned from experience.

I am just saying anonymity can be unsafe. If someone has a real problem go get help.
This is the solution, not seeking advice from God knows who in the dark.

If you want professional help go to a website with resources and live chat.
Seek guidance.

redrock

pandora wrote:

Think of it as your car is a computer to ride the web you must be identified.
Just as we are now on the road.
That's the way I picture it in the future, at least. I think it will be much improvement
getting rid of illegal behavior not only the bullying and perverts.
It will also bring accountability to everyone.

:?: 'We' identify ourselves with all our details, potentially allowing people to hack into bank accounts etc. when we are on the road? Anyone can drive my car. My car is not me.

redrock

pandora wrote:

If you want professional help go to a website with resources and live chat.

But don't the perverts live there?

Cosmo

Okay... let's say I'm accused of some 'mean spirited' political speak.
My Name is: Dick Gozinya
Address: 1234 Meryl Street, apt.# 69
East Bumfucking, North Dakota 80085
Phone: 505-867-xxxx (e-i-in) [number edited by Admin to keep bots from picking it up]
...
There... transparent as a fucking tranparent thing.