Are Mormons Christian?

know1

catefrances wrote:

know1 wrote:

..2. They think Jesus was a prophet and didn't always exist.
...

isnt there a general consensus about this? the bible tells of his birth so at one point he didnt exist. heck at one point all of us didnt exist.

No. Christians believe that has Jesus always existed, but was born or incarnated as a man.

catefrances

know1 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

know1 wrote:

..2. They think Jesus was a prophet and didn't always exist.
...

isnt there a general consensus about this? the bible tells of his birth so at one point he didnt exist. heck at one point all of us didnt exist.

No. Christians believe that has Jesus always existed, but was born or incarnated as a man.

hmmmm. thank you. so because jesus was always considered divine as a part of God(from whence he came) and God having existed before time and the universe and all that shit jesus also has always existed. weirdly enough to me this sounds logical. tho i dont believe it for a second. still its interesting.

Flagg

know1 wrote:

1. They do not believe that God has always existed.
2. They think Jesus was a prophet and didn't always exist.
3. They do not believe in the concept of the holy trinity.

Those are some of the most basic, fundamental Christian beliefs. Therefore they are not Christians.

I am not going to judge whether they are "Christians" or not but I was going to post this. Mormons and traditional Christians differ on very fundamental theological tenets of Christianity.

Mormonism teaches that God, the Son and the Holy Spirit form a heavenly council of sorts rather than being three manifestations of the same being.

Mormons believe that God was "born" twice. Once he lived a mortal life he was resurrected to achieve godhood. God also has a wife called the Heavenly Mother and their union resulted in the birth of the Son.

Traditional Christians believe God created the earth from nothing. Mormons believe he reorganized existing matter.

Mormons believe humans are eternal along with the Godhead, meaning your unique nature has always existed and will always exist and you were never "created".

Christians believe God to be omnipotent and omniscient while Mormons believe God governed by natural law.

Mormons reject Original Sin, do not believe in salvation by grace alone, practice baptism of the dead, and believe they can achieve perfection and become exalted as God is. Exaltation of man assumes a vast quantity of worlds, ruled by former men who achieved godhood.

And of course there is the whole Book of Mormon thing that basically adds-on to or replaces the New Testament and claims Christ came to North America after the resurrection.

My neighbors are Mormon. These are some rather large differences. Larger than the differences between the denominations of traditional Christianity.

Cosmo

Bottom line... does it really matter?
My view is that if someone has to prove how much of a 'better Christian' they are than others... does that act itself make them less of Christian?
Who cares if someone like Mitt Romney is a Mormon or a Christian... what matters is his character. If you can look beyond his acts of taking over companies and cutting them up and selling off the pieces, leaving many American workers striped of the pensions they were depending upon to retire... that's your call. To me, it doesn't matter if he is a Mormon or Christian or Jew or Atheist... what matters to me is his character... or lack thereof.

CH156378

:shock:

Flagg wrote:

And of course there is the whole Book of Mormon thing that basically adds-on to or replaces the New Testament and claims Christ came to North America after the resurrection.

Flagg

Cosmo wrote:

Bottom line... does it really matter?
My view is that if someone has to prove how much of a 'better Christian' they are than others... does that act itself make them less of Christian?
Who cares if someone like Mitt Romney is a Mormon or a Christian... what matters is his character. If you can look beyond his acts of taking over companies and cutting them up and selling off the pieces, leaving many American workers striped of the pensions they were depending upon to retire... that's your call. To me, it doesn't matter if he is a Mormon or Christian or Jew or Atheist... what matters to me is his character... or lack thereof.

Yep. I do find it funny through that a lot of people I know who are Baptists are convinced Obama is a secret Muslim even though he professes Christianity yet they will vote for Romney even though they consider Mormonism to be a cult.

The whole thing is so insane it is fascinating.

know1

Cosmo wrote:

Bottom line... does it really matter?
My view is that if someone has to prove how much of a 'better Christian' they are than others... does that act itself make them less of Christian?
Who cares if someone like Mitt Romney is a Mormon or a Christian... what matters is his character. If you can look beyond his acts of taking over companies and cutting them up and selling off the pieces, leaving many American workers striped of the pensions they were depending upon to retire... that's your call. To me, it doesn't matter if he is a Mormon or Christian or Jew or Atheist... what matters to me is his character... or lack thereof.

It doesn't matter to me at all. Although I'm not one who believes that the framers intended a true separation of church and state, the denomination, sect, cult or lack thereof of a religion for a candidate doesn't have much bearing on whether I will vote for them. I try to judge them on their policy and actions and history.

That being said, I was just answering the question as to why Mormons are not Christians.

Godfather.

Cosmo wrote:

Bottom line... does it really matter?
My view is that if someone has to prove how much of a 'better Christian' they are than others... does that act itself make them less of Christian?
Who cares if someone like Mitt Romney is a Mormon or a Christian... what matters is his character. If you can look beyond his acts of taking over companies and cutting them up and selling off the pieces, leaving many American workers striped of the pensions they were depending upon to retire... that's your call. To me, it doesn't matter if he is a Mormon or Christian or Jew or Atheist... what matters to me is his character... or lack thereof.

you nailed it man.

Godfather.

bindy123

Cosmo wrote:

Bottom line... does it really matter?
My view is that if someone has to prove how much of a 'better Christian' they are than others... does that act itself make them less of Christian?
Who cares if someone like Mitt Romney is a Mormon or a Christian... what matters is his character. If you can look beyond his acts of taking over companies and cutting them up and selling off the pieces, leaving many American workers striped of the pensions they were depending upon to retire... that's your call. To me, it doesn't matter if he is a Mormon or Christian or Jew or Atheist... what matters to me is his character... or lack thereof.

I am not so sure about that...I agree to a point, but a persons fundamental underlying belief system I think will have a significant impact on their character...and it will impact on where they stand on many issues...I think it matters to be honest

catefrances

bindy123 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Bottom line... does it really matter?
My view is that if someone has to prove how much of a 'better Christian' they are than others... does that act itself make them less of Christian?
Who cares if someone like Mitt Romney is a Mormon or a Christian... what matters is his character. If you can look beyond his acts of taking over companies and cutting them up and selling off the pieces, leaving many American workers striped of the pensions they were depending upon to retire... that's your call. To me, it doesn't matter if he is a Mormon or Christian or Jew or Atheist... what matters to me is his character... or lack thereof.

I am not so sure about that...I agree to a point, but a persons fundamental underlying belief system I think will have a significant impact on their character...and it will impact on where they stand on many issues...I think it matters to be honest

theres no room for religion in politics. and if you make political decisions(for the nation) based on your religious views then you should not be in politics. and as you said. it matters to be honest and i think thats the biggest thing. oh and admitting when youre wrong.

markin ball

So some have said mormonism is a cult. So I ask what is the difference between a "cult" and a non-cult religion?

pandora

Flagg wrote:

I am not going to judge whether they are "Christians" or not but I was going to post this. Mormons and traditional Christians differ on very fundamental theological tenets of Christianity.

Mormonism teaches that God, the Son and the Holy Spirit form a heavenly council of sorts rather than being three manifestations of the same being.

Mormons believe that God was "born" twice. Once he lived a mortal life he was resurrected to achieve godhood. God also has a wife called the Heavenly Mother and their union resulted in the birth of the Son.

Traditional Christians believe God created the earth from nothing. Mormons believe he reorganized existing matter.

Mormons believe humans are eternal along with the Godhead, meaning your unique nature has always existed and will always exist and you were never "created".

Christians believe God to be omnipotent and omniscient while Mormons believe God governed by natural law.

Mormons reject Original Sin, do not believe in salvation by grace alone, practice baptism of the dead, and believe they can achieve perfection and become exalted as God is. Exaltation of man assumes a vast quantity of worlds, ruled by former men who achieved godhood.

And of course there is the whole Book of Mormon thing that basically adds-on to or replaces the New Testament and claims Christ came to North America after the resurrection.

My neighbors are Mormon. These are some rather large differences. Larger than the differences between the denominations of traditional Christianity.

thank you for this comparison ... I had no idea.

I especially like this...

Mormons believe humans are eternal along with the Godhead, meaning your unique nature has always existed and will always exist and you were never "created".



I love learning about other's beliefs...
Mormans are cool.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

Flagg wrote:

I am not going to judge whether they are "Christians" or not but I was going to post this. Mormons and traditional Christians differ on very fundamental theological tenets of Christianity.

Mormonism teaches that God, the Son and the Holy Spirit form a heavenly council of sorts rather than being three manifestations of the same being.

Mormons believe that God was "born" twice. Once he lived a mortal life he was resurrected to achieve godhood. God also has a wife called the Heavenly Mother and their union resulted in the birth of the Son.

Traditional Christians believe God created the earth from nothing. Mormons believe he reorganized existing matter.

Mormons believe humans are eternal along with the Godhead, meaning your unique nature has always existed and will always exist and you were never "created".

Christians believe God to be omnipotent and omniscient while Mormons believe God governed by natural law.

Mormons reject Original Sin, do not believe in salvation by grace alone, practice baptism of the dead, and believe they can achieve perfection and become exalted as God is. Exaltation of man assumes a vast quantity of worlds, ruled by former men who achieved godhood.

And of course there is the whole Book of Mormon thing that basically adds-on to or replaces the New Testament and claims Christ came to North America after the resurrection.

My neighbors are Mormon. These are some rather large differences. Larger than the differences between the denominations of traditional Christianity.

thank you for this comparison ... I had no idea.

I especially like this...

Mormons believe humans are eternal along with the Godhead, meaning your unique nature has always existed and will always exist and you were never "created".



I love learning about other's beliefs...
Mormans are cool.

and yet you wont answer my questions.. the questions i have about your 'faith'. :think: interesting.

Godfather.

markin ball wrote:

So some have said mormonism is a cult. So I ask what is the difference between a "cult" and a non-cult religion?

all these religions are cults from christianity to moromism, Iam a firm believer in God and that Jesus is my lord and savior, it's a belief/faith not a religion but with that being said who am I too judge anothers belifes.

Godfather.

know1

catefrances wrote:

theres no room for religion in politics. and if you make political decisions(for the nation) based on your religious views then you should not be in politics. and as you said. it matters to be honest and i think thats the biggest thing. oh and admitting when youre wrong.

I totally disagree with this. If you're a religious person and you have a set of values and morals that you try to follow, then you should absolutely make political decisions based upon those. There is no way you can be a TRULY religious person and not have it affect your decisions.

pandora

know1 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

theres no room for religion in politics. and if you make political decisions(for the nation) based on your religious views then you should not be in politics. and as you said. it matters to be honest and i think thats the biggest thing. oh and admitting when youre wrong.

I totally disagree with this. If you're a religious person and you have a set of values and morals that you try to follow, then you should absolutely make political decisions based upon those. There is no way you can be a TRULY religious person and not have it affect your decisions.

I agree know1, I am not religious in that I do not follow a religion
but knowing God has changed how I look at myself, my role in life,
the world and it's inhabitants.
The big picture of here and beyond, our connection to each other, influences my
political views.

I can not separate God from me in any way, nor would I ever want to.

catefrances

know1 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

theres no room for religion in politics. and if you make political decisions(for the nation) based on your religious views then you should not be in politics. and as you said. it matters to be honest and i think thats the biggest thing. oh and admitting when youre wrong.

I totally disagree with this. If you're a religious person and you have a set of values and morals that you try to follow, then you should absolutely make political decisions based upon those. There is no way you can be a TRULY religious person and not have it affect your decisions.

and if those religious values contravene someone elses rights, youre okay with that??

PJ_Soul

catefrances wrote:

know1 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

theres no room for religion in politics. and if you make political decisions(for the nation) based on your religious views then you should not be in politics. and as you said. it matters to be honest and i think thats the biggest thing. oh and admitting when youre wrong.

I totally disagree with this. If you're a religious person and you have a set of values and morals that you try to follow, then you should absolutely make political decisions based upon those. There is no way you can be a TRULY religious person and not have it affect your decisions.

and if those religious values contravene someone elses rights, youre okay with that??

+1

Cosmo

know1 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

theres no room for religion in politics. and if you make political decisions(for the nation) based on your religious views then you should not be in politics. and as you said. it matters to be honest and i think thats the biggest thing. oh and admitting when youre wrong.

I totally disagree with this. If you're a religious person and you have a set of values and morals that you try to follow, then you should absolutely make political decisions based upon those. There is no way you can be a TRULY religious person and not have it affect your decisions.

...
In my view... our moral compass is not directed by our religious beiefs... it is (or SHOULD) be directed by our humanity. Our values are founded upon our being... not our beliefs. We should be making our decisions based upon whether they are the right thing to do... not because we are being watched by Jesus or God or whatever our religion if founded upon. We should base our decisions and actions on what is right... not to appease anyone... Including deities.

javis el errante

Bear with me guys...

I was raised as a Catholic, went to Catholic elementary school and Catholic highschool. Answering the question, to me Mormons are Christians. To the Catholic church, that is to say, from the Pope downwards, regarding that those below the pope are in the same wavelength, Mormons and all the rest Christians religions are not in fact religions, but cults, and I agree with that. However, the word Christian can be considered by two aspects, one to refer to people, "He is a Christian", and other to refer to deeds, "That's not a Christian thing to do". Therefore, even though Mormons perform deeds which may be considered as a Christian thing to do, I cannot regard Mormonism as a religion, more over, some deeds Mormons perform ARE NOT a Christian thing to do.

The difference between Catholics and the rest of the religious christian clubs is a bit vague. Catholicism is based on The Holy Trinity, God, Jesus and Holy Spirit, however, they are the same entity, and odd as it may be, when Jesus asked His Father, our God, forgiveness for our sins, he was in fact talking to himself :shock: . I always wondered why if Jesus was a Jew, why aren't we all Jews? Why the Old Testament is made of Jewish books? Remeber that all the main characters and heroes of the Old Testament are jews. And why did the other Jews turn on him, since it was the Son of God? Why did the sell Jesus to the Romans? And who was the Roman Emperor who some years later said "tear those fucking statues down, we are turning into Christianism", and why?

The Catholic church only considers Judaism, Islam and Buddhism religions. The rest of the Christian divisions are considered cults. They only share with catholicism God and Jesus. Some don't believe in the Holy Spirit, some do; some others don't believe in Virgin Mary and other Saints, some do. Some only believe in God, Jesus and angels. Many don't acknowledge the apostles. Some take inot account the New Testament, some only the Old Testament (the jewish part of the Bible, but they're Christians, not Jews). So, there are a lot to go round, so you can choose the one that suits you the most, so, in that trend of thought, it kinda looks like a club, not a religion.

By the way, the Catholic church doesn't regards Protestantism, Lutheranism, Anglicanism, Baptism, Presbiterianism, and all the rest of the -isms I'm forgetting as religions, they are considred cults. When Henry VIII couldn't have children he requested the Pope to grant him the chance to divorce his wife, the Pope said "WTF? No way!", so Henry started his own religion. Then Martin Luther, who was quite well off, came along and said that the path to salvation was one of faith, and faith only, no good deeds or money, things that Roman church needed.

As I said, I was raised a Catholic, and OMG, that shit is crazy. All religions are crazy. After learning how to turn the other cheek, embrace the neighbour, love the neighbour, help the poor, help those in need, and all the rest, it was shocking to see two girls of the senior year being expelled from school because they got pregnant, something clicked in my mind, something felt wrong, I mean, if Jesus was in love with prostitute and had a girl with her, out of wedlock, why this 17-year-old girls couldn't? Catholicism is some crazy shit, but Mormonism takes all the prizes... is it Kola or Kolob the asteroid were this guy lives? or is it V-612? Yes, Mormons perform some good deeds, ask an african-american person, a latino, a gay person... Racism, discrimination, very Christian things to do...

check this videos about this so called christians, they are fun, and interesting... thanks to Bill Maher

this one have some explanations about what is being discussed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKqqGX0DEMM

this is from the show on April 27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp8jbnzrCDU

this is from the show on May 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NLlAKKdTtY

and this one is from last Friday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6L1_932Vx0