Water guns banned, REAL guns, OK....

pandora

Crime is rising, a home invasion in the neighborhood next to us a few months back.
The homeowner, a legal gun owner, I don't know if he carries
was quick acting and got shots off before the men could do any damage. They ran...
the tool bag they left behind full of not only guns but knives, a baseball bat,
and a blow torch :wtf: He saved his wife and kids from god knows what terror
and the bag helped lead them to the guys. A few less bad guys on the street.

The whole point is to be proactive prepared to take charge against crime not fear it
and not allow criminals to continue their reign of terror.

keeponrockin

Tritone wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Also, does Tritone saying "your woman" not come across as VERY sexist?

i was generalizing not knowing for sure who is a dude to make my point but i guess yours probably wears the pants shit i thought you were a girl lol i see now you guys your women need to defend themselves hope that works out maybe they will save your sorry asses

Really? My girlfriend wears the pants because I don't feel the need to carry a gun everywhere I go?

That my friends, is logic.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

keeponrockin wrote:

Tritone wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Also, does Tritone saying "your woman" not come across as VERY sexist?

i was generalizing not knowing for sure who is a dude to make my point but i guess yours probably wears the pants shit i thought you were a girl lol i see now you guys your women need to defend themselves hope that works out maybe they will save your sorry asses

Really? My girlfriend wears the pants because I don't feel the need to carry a gun everywhere I go?

That my friends, is logic.

pandora

It is a fact here many women are carrying guns in their purses, I don't own a gun
personally but if I had to be alone in certain areas of town after dark
I would definitely carry.

Better safe than sorry...

brianlux

pandora wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Oh, and another thing. I carry a concealed fire extinguisher so look out people!

yeah I guess it did go over some peoples heads

This comparing Canada and the US really?
apples to oranges and let's throw in France really what a joke

Does Canada have an illegal immigrant problem, does Canada have the sheer numbers
we do, our population is over 10 times as many maybe more
does Canada have the poor and over crowded and the minority population?
By the way I am a minority in Atlanta.
This is where crime is because of drugs, related illegal activity, lack of opportunity,
and where there is crime there are guns legal or otherwise.
The otherwise is the why there are so many legal gun owners.
The bad guys will always have guns we can be very sure of that.

This why you Brian can be opposed you don't have the crime Atlanta does
and the Canadians who come here and argue comparing their small country
with the US is kind of ridiculous.
I am happy for Canada it is much easier to manage 33 million then 313 million :shock:
but then again crime really knows no boundaries and those so smug to think
it can not happen to them are foolhardy, cause if it can strike 40 years ago
in a small city in Wisconsin it surely can and will happen anywhere.

Pandora, you may be right about my neck of the woods not having as much crime as yours but I've lived in and been in places that did. I lived in a neighborhood once where I heard people shooting each other. Did I have a gun? No. Did I need one? No. It was probably another domestic fight. Most killings are.

I was once forced by a very large aggressive man to give him a ride. He had me cornered in an empty laundromat. I gave him a ride. If I had tried to pull out a gun I might not be here to tell you this.

While working in as an R.A. in a dorm I had a guy hold a broom handle with a large nail strapped to it against my throat for five minutes because I gave his room inspection a 9 instead of a 10.. I talked him down. If I had tried to pull a out a gun on him do you think I would be here to tell you this?

I was in a rec room in a trailer park once and a guy came at me with a large screw drive because my dag had shit near his yard. If I had tried to pull a gun out he would have adjusted my innards with his screw driver and I wouldn't be here to tell you this. I apologized and went and cleaned up the mess.

I fell asleep on a bus once and woke up in a really fucking bad neighborhood and watched a guy rob another passenger and he looked at me and his eyes said, "If you make a move I'm going to fuck you up." I averted my eyes and remained calm. If I had reached for a gun while sitting with this guy towering over me would I be here to tell you this.

God damn it, don't tell me I need a fucking gun.

brianlux

Well sorry folks but sometimes I feel like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhd_dKwxVs

Hugh Freaking Dillon

brianlux wrote:

Well sorry folks but sometimes I feel like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhd_dKwxVs

I love how he cleans it all up before he leaves! that's awesome!

keeponrockin

pandora wrote:

It is a fact here many women are carrying guns in their purses, I don't own a gun
personally but if I had to be alone in certain areas of town after dark
I would definitely carry.

Better safe than sorry...

Personally, all things considered, I still think I'm way safer NOT carrying the gun.

Halifax2TheMax

Tritone keeps asking what you’d do in a given situation. I’ll tell you what I’d do. I’d fight back with my mind, that’s what I’d do. Ha, you might say Tritone but its not as simple as us non-gun owners rolling over and “begging” for our lives or “whimpering” as we stare down the barrel of a gun or watch our loved ones be victimized. Let me explain it to you. It starts with sturdy double door locks on your doors, double pane windows, good for the environment and your energy bill and they make a big scene when broken, exterior lighting on motion sensors, a zoned home alarm system that allows the alarm to be set in the basement and first floor while you’re sleeping on the second floor, a mid to large size dog sleeping on the second floor with you, a baseball bat your wife or significant other can comfortably swing resting against the wall. Knowing your neighbors and being aware of their routine and them yours, being clued in to your neighborhood watch and neighborhood associations, paying attention to the crime bulletins they provide, checking the sexual offender registry on a periodic basis and keeping the landscaping from completely blocking the view from the street. I suppose I could surround my house with a fence, maybe chain link with razor wire on top, add a gate to the bottom of the driveway, video surveillance, “no trespassing” and “beware of dog” signs along with NRA and FOP stickers on my doors and windows with the alarm company’s. Thus far, these latter steps haven’t been necessary but they’re options. Oh but that doesn’t protect you when you leave the house, you scream. No it doesn’t but then again, I minimize my risk of being a victim by avoiding situations that increase said risk. That means no looking to score, visiting sketchy neighborhoods, being downtown at 3:00 a.m., being aware of my situation and surroundings, parking in well lit areas, walking briskly and as if I know where I am and where I’m going, crossing the street if the situation feels weird or ducking into a store, traveling with a group, grabbing a cab, if necessary, keeping my cell phone handy, maybe visible, with the state and city police phone numbers pre-programmed, not flashing wads of cash, being belligerent or disrespectful toward others, assessing situations and determining options, not driving aggressively and being a douche. Basically, carrying myself with confidence and respect and respecting others, and not causing confrontation. Does this guarantee that I won’t be a victim of a crime? No, but neither does wearing my seat belt and driving defensively guarantee I won’t die in a car wreck or having smoke detectors and fire extinguishers guarantee that I won’t die in a house fire, maybe one set by a serial arsonist. I do believe, however, that your carrying a gun, if you do indeed carry a gun, leads you to some level of complacency and as a result, a higher degree of risk. I don’t know what I would do in any given situation when faced with it just as I don’t believe you do either, armed or unarmed. What do you do, Tritone, sleep with a gun under your pillow because you leave your front door unlocked? Drive with a gun in your lap or waistband? What would you do when confronted with looking down the barrel of a gun?

To all you pro-gun folks, what do you think the insurance industry would think? Seriously, what if you had to provide and maintain proof of insurance with certain liability thresholds for coverage to purchase a gun in the event of an accidental shooting or you miss your intended perp and hit an innocent bystander. Or your kid gets a hold of your gun and shoots the neighbor kid because you didn’t lock your gun up or store it properly in your home or car. What if your unlocked gun is stolen and used in a murder. Should you be held liable, either criminally or civilly? Would you accept that kind of responsibility? Why not? You do for automobiles, right? The more responsibility you could show regarding your gun ownership, the less expensive your premiums. Younger gun owners would pay higher premiums than older gun owners. Go to the range frequently, take classes, own a gun safe or secure storage, etc. the less your insurance would be. Much like auto insurance. Are you for sensible gun control legislation? Background checks at gun shows? A national e-verify for criminal background and mental health checks? Limiting gun purchases to one gun per month? Limiting magazine/clip capacity? Why and why not?

So I decide to be smart, rather than ignorant, and not own a gun for my self protection. That doesn’t mean you’re not smart or are ignorant. Or taht I'm any more or less of a man or a woman. Just that I think you view your world as full of unmanageable risk requiring reaction whereas I view it as a world with risk, that if properly managed and risk avoided, can lead to a long, fulfilling and enjoyable life. Crime is down, particularly violent crime, gun sales are up, gun ownership is down (gun owners owning more guns per rather than more people buying guns) and CWP are up. But the decrease in crime may be just as contributable to the proliferation of cell phones, longer prison sentences for repeat violent offenders and better community policing methods and tactics. And illegal immigration is down, illegal immigrant arrests and deportations are up so I don’t know where this “reign of terror” comes from. I don’t live in a Grand Theft Auto world and if I did, I’d move. It’s a free country. And if I did decide to move, I’d be checking the crime stats for the state, city or town that I was thinking of moving to.

To most of you who visit and post on the forums and even to those that don’t, you know the forum is a reflection of our society and as such a certain percentage believes in and hopes for the breakdown of society and chaos and the End of Days, maybe as soon as 12/12/12, I think they call it the Rapture, so that they can ride it out and prove themselves holier than thou. The 700 Club has been discussing it since at least the early 80’s and the extreme fringe Christian right is partly responsible for the insanity by perpetrating the myth that we’re all just a breath away from being a victim of a crime.

If you’re a gun owner, I hope you never have to use it to defend your life or family and if you do, I hope you’re not the victim.

A proud non-gun owning American,

Peace.

brianlux

Great points, Halifax. We really would all be better off if we used our minds more than weapons. That's exactly what got me through those five dangerous situations I mentioned above.

Thinking and acting clearly also relate to survival as a group. Richard Heinberg made this point very clearly in his book, Power Down. In it, he talks about preservationist communities as opposed to survivalist communities. In preservationist communities people work together to make things happen. The Pearl Jam Forum is often a preservationist community. We've all seen good things happen in helping others here. In survivalist communities, people are "regarded with suspicion and envy by others" and are "perpetually on the defensive".

Let's face it, we're not going to get rid of guns. On the other hand, if we learn to use our minds and work toward preservation rather than mere survival, there will be fewer needs for gun. Maybe we'll even do what Jimi Hendrix suggested: "Instead of, you know, umm, all these cats walking down the street with guns and hatred we maybe we could , ahh, all walk down the street with electric guitars.. somethin' like this, ahhh... one, two, three..."

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

just cause you know how to use a gun doesnt mean youll have the nerve to pull the trigger. you know what im saying?

If it is a matter of survival .... you pull the trigger....
basic.

Responsible licensed owners of guns know what they are for.
They have hours of training and practice.
Many are former victims or their loved ones are victims.
Responsible licensed owners are ready to shoot and more and more people
are protecting themselves, their loved ones and their property.
It's about time.

my property is not worth shooting someone over.

pandora

brianlux wrote:

pandora wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Oh, and another thing. I carry a concealed fire extinguisher so look out people!

yeah I guess it did go over some peoples heads

This comparing Canada and the US really?
apples to oranges and let's throw in France really what a joke

Does Canada have an illegal immigrant problem, does Canada have the sheer numbers
we do, our population is over 10 times as many maybe more
does Canada have the poor and over crowded and the minority population?
By the way I am a minority in Atlanta.
This is where crime is because of drugs, related illegal activity, lack of opportunity,
and where there is crime there are guns legal or otherwise.
The otherwise is the why there are so many legal gun owners.
The bad guys will always have guns we can be very sure of that.

This why you Brian can be opposed you don't have the crime Atlanta does
and the Canadians who come here and argue comparing their small country
with the US is kind of ridiculous.
I am happy for Canada it is much easier to manage 33 million then 313 million :shock:
but then again crime really knows no boundaries and those so smug to think
it can not happen to them are foolhardy, cause if it can strike 40 years ago
in a small city in Wisconsin it surely can and will happen anywhere.

Pandora, you may be right about my neck of the woods not having as much crime as yours but I've lived in and been in places that did. I lived in a neighborhood once where I heard people shooting each other. Did I have a gun? No. Did I need one? No. It was probably another domestic fight. Most killings are.

I was once forced by a very large aggressive man to give him a ride. He had me cornered in an empty laundromat. I gave him a ride. If I had tried to pull out a gun I might not be here to tell you this.

While working in as an R.A. in a dorm I had a guy hold a broom handle with a large nail strapped to it against my throat for five minutes because I gave his room inspection a 9 instead of a 10.. I talked him down. If I had tried to pull a out a gun on him do you think I would be here to tell you this?

I was in a rec room in a trailer park once and a guy came at me with a large screw drive because my dag had shit near his yard. If I had tried to pull a gun out he would have adjusted my innards with his screw driver and I wouldn't be here to tell you this. I apologized and went and cleaned up the mess.

I fell asleep on a bus once and woke up in a really fucking bad neighborhood and watched a guy rob another passenger and he looked at me and his eyes said, "If you make a move I'm going to fuck you up." I averted my eyes and remained calm. If I had reached for a gun while sitting with this guy towering over me would I be here to tell you this.

God damn it, don't tell me I need a fucking gun.

Did I tell you you needed a gun :? please don't tell me I don't !

I see you allowed crime to happen this is not good common sense in all cases.

This why crime is where it's at ... people are accepting it....
in fact all they do is bitch about it.:fp:

I believe in fighting back! I admire my neighbor for protecting his family
and helping to catch the ass wipes who terrorize law abiding people.
I guess you feel they should have submitted :wtf: of course we can agree to disagree on that.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

just cause you know how to use a gun doesnt mean youll have the nerve to pull the trigger. you know what im saying?

If it is a matter of survival .... you pull the trigger....
basic.

Responsible licensed owners of guns know what they are for.
They have hours of training and practice.
Many are former victims or their loved ones are victims.
Responsible licensed owners are ready to shoot and more and more people
are protecting themselves, their loved ones and their property.
It's about time.

my property is not worth shooting someone over.

Yes it is because predators need to be stopped.
You are an enabler to crime and because of you property is stolen,
there are house invasions, elderly people are terrorized in their own homes.
Where is your heart for the victims oh they are with the victimizers I see.

People who rob and terrorize and prey on hard working people
or weaker individuals in society do not belong here.

I guess you can accept crime I can not, I will fight back!

pandora

keeponrockin wrote:

pandora wrote:

It is a fact here many women are carrying guns in their purses, I don't own a gun
personally but if I had to be alone in certain areas of town after dark
I would definitely carry.

Better safe than sorry...

Personally, all things considered, I still think I'm way safer NOT carrying the gun.

Good for you you are a man ...
do you feel women should not carry a gun in their purses for defense?

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

my property is not worth shooting someone over.

Yes it is because predators need to be stopped.
You are an enabler to crime and because of you property is stolen,
there are house invasions, elderly people are terrorized in their own homes.
Where is your heart for the victims oh they are with the victimizers I see.

People who rob and terrorize and prey on hard working people
or weaker individuals in society do not belong here.

I guess you can accept crime I can not, I will fight back!

theyre things pandora. they can all be replaced. a human life can not. i can see youre having great difficulty understanding where im coming from.... and how dare you insinuate i have no empathy for victims of crime. who the fuck are you to make that judgement? how exactly is me not having a gun enabling crime? i weep for a society that feels the need to arm itself as highly as the US seems to. but then again you live by the sword you die by the sword.. and i will not play their game... i will not be corralled into thinking i would be safer... that i would feel safer if i had a gun. i know myself and i know that wouldnt be the case.

brianlux

pandora wrote:

I see you allowed crime to happen this is not good common sense in all cases.

This why crime is where it's at ... people are accepting it....
in fact all they do is bitch about it.:fp:

I believe in fighting back! I admire my neighbor for protecting his family
and helping to catch the ass wipes who terrorize law abiding people.
I guess you feel they should have submitted :wtf: of course we can agree to disagree on that.

Again, you make an assumption about me. What's with that? You've gotta be kidding- I allowed crime to happen? The rule of thumb around here is to not let things get personal but I'm going to risk my posting privileges to tell you here, on the forum, that I think you have a really bad habit of bating people. Don't make assumptions about me- like what it's like where I live or that I allowed crime to happen. Is this all just a game to you, Pandora? Do you really have nothing better to do than badger other people on this forum? Your troll like behavior is pathetic.

Sorry Mods. I respect whatever you decide.

Edit- I'm adding one more thing here. That incident with the robbery on the bus was very fucking traumatic for me. Don't tell me I allowed that to happen. Saying so is pure bullshit. A gun in that incident would have only made things worse.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

You are an enabler to crime and because of you property is stolen,

so it's the victim's fault now.

unbelievable.

catefrances

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

You are an enabler to crime and because of you property is stolen,

so it's the victim's fault now.

unbelievable.

sounds like the scooby doo defense doesnt it... if it wasnt for those pesky kids....


the risk someone takes when they enter a house is they DO NOT know whether or not the occupamts are armed with a firearm.. they do not know if the occupants are highly trained in martial arts.. they do not know what they might encounter. you enter my home you better be ready cause i will be.

goingtoverona

You guys make it sound so simple, all we have to do is ban guns or not let people carry conceal and we can end all of the gun violence. If the government came out today with a law that said carrying a concealed gun is now a crime, the only people that would affect are law abiding citizens, do you think a guy using a gun to rob someone or rob a bank gives a rats ass about carry conceal laws? Of course not, they would prefer people not carry because that's less of a chance of someone trying to stop them, and if ur answer to that is well lets ban all guns, then you are not very familiar with how supply and demand works.

Say the government banned all guns tomorrow, what does that accomplish? Criminals aren't going to be lining up to turn their guns in, only law abiding citizens would, I've seen a lot of arguments saying people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against armed criminals because it leads to more violence and that just boggles my mind. Arguing that we should just leave the guns with the criminals to prevent less people getting shot, in my opinion, is absolutely ridiculous.

brianlux

goingtoverona wrote:

You guys make it sound so simple, all we have to do is ban guns or not let people carry conceal and we can end all of the gun violence. If the government came out today with a law that said carrying a concealed gun is now a crime, the only people that would affect are law abiding citizens, do you think a guy using a gun to rob someone or rob a bank gives a rats ass about carry conceal laws? Of course not, they would prefer people not carry because that's less of a chance of someone trying to stop them, and if ur answer to that is well lets ban all guns, then you are not very familiar with how supply and demand works.

Say the government banned all guns tomorrow, what does that accomplish? Criminals aren't going to be lining up to turn their guns in, only law abiding citizens would, I've seen a lot of arguments saying people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against armed criminals because it leads to more violence and that just boggles my mind. Arguing that we should just leave the guns with the criminals to prevent less people getting shot, in my opinion, is absolutely ridiculous.

Who made it sound simple? The process of reversing the propensity toward violence in America is no small task. Here, right here on this thread, is a chance to start doing that. To speak out against violence, to seek answers other than arming ourselves to the teeth. Did you read my post noting some of the ideas proposed by Richard Heinberg? Transforming a community and the mentality of its members away from mere survival to preservation is no small endeavor. But doesn't it make more sense than being like Yosemite Sams and Bugs trying to pull out the biggest six eight ten twelve twenty fifty hundred thousand million shooter?