Canadian Politics

1ThoughtKnown

Arguments in favor of minimum wage laws
Supporters of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

Removes financial stress and encourages education which results in better paying jobs.
Positive impact on small business owners and industry.
Results in job growth/creation.
Increases the standard of living for the poorest and most vulnerable class in society and raises average.
Increases incentives to take jobs, as opposed to other methods of transferring income to the poor that are not tied to employment (such as food subsidies for the poor or welfare payments for the unemployed)
Stimulates consumption, by putting more money in the hands of low-income people who spend their entire paychecks. Hence increases circulation of money through the economy.
Encourages efficiency and automation of industry.
Removes low paying jobs, forcing workers to train for, and move to, higher paying jobs.
Increases technological development. Costly technology that increases business efficiency is more appealing as the price of labor increases.
Increases the work ethic of those who earn very little, as employers demand more return from the higher cost of hiring these employees.
Decreases the cost of government social welfare programs by increasing incomes for the lowest-paid.
Encourages people to join the workforce rather than pursuing money through illegal means, e.g., selling illegal drugs

1ThoughtKnown

Arguments against minimum wage laws
Opponents of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

Minimum wage alone isn't effective at alleviating poverty, and in fact produces a net increase poverty due to disemployment effects.
As a labor market analogue of political-economic protectionism, it excludes low cost competitors from labor markets and hampers firms in reducing wage costs during trade downturns. This generates various industrial-economic inefficiencies.
Hurts small business more than large business.
Reduces quantity demanded of workers, either through a reduction in the number of hours worked by individuals, or through a reduction in the number of jobs.
May cause price inflation as businesses try to compensate by raising the prices of the goods being sold.
Benefits some workers at the expense of the poorest and least productive.
Can result in the exclusion of certain groups (ethnic, gender etc.) from the labor force.
Small firms with limited payroll budgets cannot offer their most valuable employees fair and attractive wages above unskilled workers paid the artificially high minimum, and see a rising hurdle-cost of adding workers.
Is less effective than other methods (e.g. the Earned Income Tax Credit) at reducing poverty, and is more damaging to businesses than those other methods.
Discourages further education among the poor by enticing people to enter the job market.
Discriminates against, through pricing out, less qualified workers (including newcomers to the labor market, e.g. young workers) by keeping them from accumulating work experience and qualifications, hence potentially graduating to higher wages later.
Slows growth in the creation of low-skilled jobs
Results in jobs moving to other areas or countries which allow lower-cost labor.
Results in higher long-term unemployment.
Results in higher prices for consumers, where products and services are produced by minimum-wage workers (though non-labor costs represent a greater proportion of costs to consumers in industries like fast food and discount retail

1ThoughtKnown

The province which lead the way in raising minimum wages and leans left of center politically has little to brag about. From 2013:

The overall poverty rate in BC remains the worst in Canada. While the poverty rate dropped from 10.5% in 2010 to 11.3% in 2011, BC holds its place at the bottom and remains one of only two provinces without a provincial poverty plan.
BC child poverty rates rose in 2011 to 93,000 – an increase of 7,000 children – which makes BC now tied with Manitoba for the worst child poverty rate in the country. BC held this shameful title for almost 8 consecutive years until last year, when it rose to 2nd last.
First Call BC Child and Youth Advocacy Coalition noted today in a press release that when you delve deeper into family types the numbers get worse. For lone-parent mothers the poverty rate soared moving from 16.4% to 24.6%, representing 27,000 children. For two-parent families with children the numbers experiencing poverty grew as well by 10,000 to a total of 61,000 children. This is shocking for a one-year time period.
While the BC government is reticent to implement a provincial poverty plan, they did attempt to work with seven cities across BC to establish local poverty strategies. No funding was given to the cities and regions were left to develop their own initiative based on local services. Since this announcement in April 2012, there has been no update from the BC government on the status of these ‘plans’ or poverty in these communities. Looking at the recent numbers, the patchwork anti-poverty programs and focus on jobs is not enough to address poverty.

When you read things like this "anti-poverty" in Canada, and then watch the news and see thousands of Tunisians stranded waiting to get to refugee camps, without a home, you begin to realize poverty in Canada is a first world problem.
Instead of nitpicking everything I write, there are the facts, all from reliable sources. Of course there is plenty more information out there. I invite you to read some of it.
I'm sure Notley's Crew has looked at this long and hard when they made it a campaign promise of an election they had no idea they were going to win

rgambs

1ThoughtKnown said:

The province which lead the way in raising minimum wages and leans left of center politically has little to brag about. From 2013:

The overall poverty rate in BC remains the worst in Canada. While the poverty rate dropped from 10.5% in 2010 to 11.3% in 2011, BC holds its place at the bottom and remains one of only two provinces without a provincial poverty plan.
BC child poverty rates rose in 2011 to 93,000 – an increase of 7,000 children – which makes BC now tied with Manitoba for the worst child poverty rate in the country. BC held this shameful title for almost 8 consecutive years until last year, when it rose to 2nd last.
First Call BC Child and Youth Advocacy Coalition noted today in a press release that when you delve deeper into family types the numbers get worse. For lone-parent mothers the poverty rate soared moving from 16.4% to 24.6%, representing 27,000 children. For two-parent families with children the numbers experiencing poverty grew as well by 10,000 to a total of 61,000 children. This is shocking for a one-year time period.
While the BC government is reticent to implement a provincial poverty plan, they did attempt to work with seven cities across BC to establish local poverty strategies. No funding was given to the cities and regions were left to develop their own initiative based on local services. Since this announcement in April 2012, there has been no update from the BC government on the status of these ‘plans’ or poverty in these communities. Looking at the recent numbers, the patchwork anti-poverty programs and focus on jobs is not enough to address poverty.

When you read things like this "anti-poverty" in Canada, and the. Watch the news and see thousands of Tunisians stranded waiting to get to refugee camps, without a home, you begin to realize poverty in Canada is a first world problem.

Well said!

PJfanwillneverleave1

rgambs said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

The province which lead the way in raising minimum wages and leans left of center politically has little to brag about. From 2013:

The overall poverty rate in BC remains the worst in Canada. While the poverty rate dropped from 10.5% in 2010 to 11.3% in 2011, BC holds its place at the bottom and remains one of only two provinces without a provincial poverty plan.
BC child poverty rates rose in 2011 to 93,000 – an increase of 7,000 children – which makes BC now tied with Manitoba for the worst child poverty rate in the country. BC held this shameful title for almost 8 consecutive years until last year, when it rose to 2nd last.
First Call BC Child and Youth Advocacy Coalition noted today in a press release that when you delve deeper into family types the numbers get worse. For lone-parent mothers the poverty rate soared moving from 16.4% to 24.6%, representing 27,000 children. For two-parent families with children the numbers experiencing poverty grew as well by 10,000 to a total of 61,000 children. This is shocking for a one-year time period.
While the BC government is reticent to implement a provincial poverty plan, they did attempt to work with seven cities across BC to establish local poverty strategies. No funding was given to the cities and regions were left to develop their own initiative based on local services. Since this announcement in April 2012, there has been no update from the BC government on the status of these ‘plans’ or poverty in these communities. Looking at the recent numbers, the patchwork anti-poverty programs and focus on jobs is not enough to address poverty.

When you read things like this "anti-poverty" in Canada, and the. Watch the news and see thousands of Tunisians stranded waiting to get to refugee camps, without a home, you begin to realize poverty in Canada is a first world problem.

Well said!

Yep, well said.
Befuddled with numbers or see the truth.

rgambs

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

The province which lead the way in raising minimum wages and leans left of center politically has little to brag about. From 2013:

The overall poverty rate in BC remains the worst in Canada. While the poverty rate dropped from 10.5% in 2010 to 11.3% in 2011, BC holds its place at the bottom and remains one of only two provinces without a provincial poverty plan.
BC child poverty rates rose in 2011 to 93,000 – an increase of 7,000 children – which makes BC now tied with Manitoba for the worst child poverty rate in the country. BC held this shameful title for almost 8 consecutive years until last year, when it rose to 2nd last.
First Call BC Child and Youth Advocacy Coalition noted today in a press release that when you delve deeper into family types the numbers get worse. For lone-parent mothers the poverty rate soared moving from 16.4% to 24.6%, representing 27,000 children. For two-parent families with children the numbers experiencing poverty grew as well by 10,000 to a total of 61,000 children. This is shocking for a one-year time period.
While the BC government is reticent to implement a provincial poverty plan, they did attempt to work with seven cities across BC to establish local poverty strategies. No funding was given to the cities and regions were left to develop their own initiative based on local services. Since this announcement in April 2012, there has been no update from the BC government on the status of these ‘plans’ or poverty in these communities. Looking at the recent numbers, the patchwork anti-poverty programs and focus on jobs is not enough to address poverty.

When you read things like this "anti-poverty" in Canada, and the. Watch the news and see thousands of Tunisians stranded waiting to get to refugee camps, without a home, you begin to realize poverty in Canada is a first world problem.

Well said!

Yep, well said.
Befuddled with numbers or see the truth.

What do you mean?
That isn't a proper sentence and I don't catch the drift of it. Please elaborate.

1ThoughtKnown

Thanks gentlemen, well said even with the iPad screw up. I edited that part

PJfanwillneverleave1

So let's try a different question.
Which politicians like the media scrum better Federal or Provincial?

1ThoughtKnown

They both like it, let's face it, they want the exposure. If they say just the right quote, the media jumps all over it and they are all over the news, pushing their agenda. However, it is more IMPORTANT federally, as you can gain a foothold in the national media and perhaps become a rising star, a la John Baird. He was really good in the scrum, the media wanted to talk to him.
However, it can backfire, as the media is based on negativity, and "exposing" the government for its failures. While this is an important aspect of the media, the problem is the successes of government are rarely reported upon.
So if you say the wrong thing in a media scrum, as Joe Oliver learned recently with his flippant comment about letting Harper's grandchildren worry about future debt, you end up plastered all over each media outlet, and the government takes the hit.
You were right to say Harper is a micro manager because of the lack of political talent at his disposal.

dignin

NDP jumps into 3-way race with Conservatives, Liberals

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-jumps-into-3-way-race-with-conservatives-liberals-1.3079391

PJfanwillneverleave1

1ThoughtKnown said:

They can (and probably will) raise the minimum wage to $15 dollars an hour.

I am all for people making enough money to live to the standard.
After reading articles like this that come out two days after this conversation makes me think that perhaps there are people of the press in this small forum.
http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1373991/alberta-premier-designate-rachel-notley-pledges-to-move-forward-on-plans-for-15-minimum-wage-this-fall/
All I get out of reading this article is that the NDP promises to work hard and discuss how to do their campaign promise during their brief 3-year tenure.

dignin

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

They can (and probably will) raise the minimum wage to $15 dollars an hour.

I am all for people making enough money to live to the standard.
After reading articles like this that come out two days after this conversation makes me think that perhaps there are people of the press in this small forum.
http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1373991/alberta-premier-designate-rachel-notley-pledges-to-move-forward-on-plans-for-15-minimum-wage-this-fall/
All I get out of reading this article is that the NDP promises to work hard and discuss how to do their campaign promise during their brief 3-year tenure.

Minimum 4 year term. And the $15 hr minimum wage is by no means a secret. It was a prominent staple in their platform that they campaigned on and Albertans voted for.


http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/djclimenhaga/2015/05/how-weird-this-calgary-chamber-commerce-spokesperson-praises-rac


"When they got around to talking about the minimum wage, instead of the hysteria Canadians expect from local chambers of commerce, people actually stood up and cheered a panelist who said it was a good idea for businesses to pay their employees a living wage."

Last-12-Exit

$15 an hour? That can't be serious. Is this for government workers only?

Drowned Out

cost of living man....higher taxes, nearly $4 a loaf of bread...

PJfanwillneverleave1

dignin said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

They can (and probably will) raise the minimum wage to $15 dollars an hour.

I am all for people making enough money to live to the standard.
After reading articles like this that come out two days after this conversation makes me think that perhaps there are people of the press in this small forum.
http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1373991/alberta-premier-designate-rachel-notley-pledges-to-move-forward-on-plans-for-15-minimum-wage-this-fall/
All I get out of reading this article is that the NDP promises to work hard and discuss how to do their campaign promise during their brief 3-year tenure.

Minimum 4 year term. And the $15 hr minimum wage is by no means a secret. It was a prominent staple in their platform that they campaigned on and Albertans voted for.


http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/djclimenhaga/2015/05/how-weird-this-calgary-chamber-commerce-spokesperson-praises-rac


"When they got around to talking about the minimum wage, instead of the hysteria Canadians expect from local chambers of commerce, people actually stood up and cheered a panelist who said it was a good idea for businesses to pay their employees a living wage."

Prominent Staple Yes.
Will it happen though?
Cabinet hasn't even been picked yet.
How does a majority provincial gov't have not even have the means to assemble yet?
NDP - is highschool for grownups.

dignin

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

dignin said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

They can (and probably will) raise the minimum wage to $15 dollars an hour.

I am all for people making enough money to live to the standard.
After reading articles like this that come out two days after this conversation makes me think that perhaps there are people of the press in this small forum.
http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1373991/alberta-premier-designate-rachel-notley-pledges-to-move-forward-on-plans-for-15-minimum-wage-this-fall/
All I get out of reading this article is that the NDP promises to work hard and discuss how to do their campaign promise during their brief 3-year tenure.

Minimum 4 year term. And the $15 hr minimum wage is by no means a secret. It was a prominent staple in their platform that they campaigned on and Albertans voted for.


http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/djclimenhaga/2015/05/how-weird-this-calgary-chamber-commerce-spokesperson-praises-rac


"When they got around to talking about the minimum wage, instead of the hysteria Canadians expect from local chambers of commerce, people actually stood up and cheered a panelist who said it was a good idea for businesses to pay their employees a living wage."

Prominent Staple Yes.
Will it happen though?
Cabinet hasn't even been picked yet.
How does a majority provincial gov't have not even have the means to assemble yet?
NDP - is highschool for grownups.

Cabinet has been picked and will be sworn in on Sunday.

High school for grownups? I don't know what this means.

dignin

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ndp-plan-to-hike-alberta-minimum-wage-comes-under-fire-1.3081949


Edmonton's downtown business says no big deal

Business owners working in the heart of downtown Edmonton aren't complaining about a possible increase to minimum wage, or at least aren't sharing their concerns with Jim Taylor, the president of the downtown business association.

"I really have to be honest and say I haven't heard anything directly," he said before meeting with members at an association luncheon on Thursday.

He added that business owners should have done their homework and knew that the increase was coming.

"Anybody who has been listening knew that this was going to be part of the new government," he said.

"Smart people adjust their business plans and know it's coming."

Cindy Lazarenko, catering manager with Culina Restaurants, doesn't believe the hike will hurt her business which employs about 25 people.

"It's so competitive right now with restaurants, so we're what we're really focusing on is to offer a competitive wage to get the best quality employees," she said.

Rising food costs are a bigger concern to her right now, Lazarenko said

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

$15 an hour? That can't be serious. Is this for government workers only?

That's only 30,000$ a year before taxes. How is that outrageous?
After taxes, high food and gas prices, and the normal incidents of life, that isn't much money.

dignin

If a employer can't afford to pay an employee a living wage, they have no business owning a business.

Drowned Out

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

$15 an hour? That can't be serious. Is this for government workers only?

That's only 30,000$ a year before taxes. How is that outrageous?
After taxes, high food and gas prices, and the normal incidents of life, that isn't much money.

Ya, it's expensive to live here...I know there are places in the states that are much higher, but for the most part, the cost of living there is way lower. I was in Scottsdale a few weeks ago and was blown away by food prices. We filled a grocery cart for around $100...would have been triple that here. Gas is around $3.75/gallon here right now (not sure how that compares). Average cost to rent a 2 bedroom in Edmonton is $1350/mth with no utilities....natural gas heat in the winter runs like $400/mth for a house (probably $200 for an apartment). I was negotiating a contract a few years back with a jr employee, and was instructed not to offer more than $20/hr....doing some math, I was unable to see how anyone could afford a decent quality of life for $20/hr. $15/hr is peanuts. The inflation is mind-bottling to me.... minimum wage was $4/hr when I entered the workforce 25 years ago.