Canadian Politics

Drowned Out

dignin said:

If a employer can't afford to pay an employee a living wage, they have no business owning a business.

You know the response to this, and the article you posted, is this line from it:
"Smart people adjust their business plans and know it's coming."
...so the prices were adjusted, and the consumer is paying for the increase. But....if these businesses want to stay competitive, they have to eat some of this cost. I have no problem paying an extra couple bucks for something if it means allowing people to make a living wage. Beats subsidizing workers with government aid just to allow them to live. I know people love to come back to the 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get a better job' argument at this point....but that is typical hard-ass con thinking...we need to remember that a good portion of the people working minimum wage are not doing it because of lack of work ethic. They're doing it because they're students, or because they've got disabilities, or mental health issues, or addiction issues, or whatever. And the next point down the rabbit hole - 'there are programs in place to help these people, they get AISH or we shouldn't pay for addicts' or whatever....well, look at how underfunded those programs are. Then tell me where the funding for these programs will come from if these people are expected to live off them, without raising taxes. It's pretty evident that business should carry more of the burden for their employees. Tax and wage flight is a myth perpetuated by corporations...and the NDP are offering tax credits for job creation as well.

1ThoughtKnown

Everyone is going to hurt no matter what the NDP does. The Calgary Herald has a story that 185,000 jobs are going down the tubes here

http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/up-to-185000-jobs-could-be-lost-in-oil-and-gas-industry-this-year-study-says

doomsday shit. Imagine the real estate market?

Drowned Out

ugh don't talk about real estate. I just moved in with my gf in January and decided to rent my place out for a year before selling. Might have been a big mistake :(. Edmonton is a bit more sheltered that way, but if Calgary is getting hit hard, we will follow. Fack.

Last-12-Exit

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

$15 an hour? That can't be serious. Is this for government workers only?

That's only 30,000$ a year before taxes. How is that outrageous?
After taxes, high food and gas prices, and the normal incidents of life, that isn't much money.

Is it for government workers or all businesses?

Last-12-Exit

You guys act like you can't live off $25,000 a year. It can be done. Even with children.

dignin

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

$15 an hour? That can't be serious. Is this for government workers only?

That's only 30,000$ a year before taxes. How is that outrageous?
After taxes, high food and gas prices, and the normal incidents of life, that isn't much money.

Is it for government workers or all businesses?

For everyone.

dignin

Last-12-Exit said:

You guys act like you can't live off $25,000 a year. It can be done. Even with children.

The majority of people living in poverty are working full-time and full year
The poverty line in Alberta for 1 person is: $19,930 after taxes
The poverty line in Alberta for a family of four is $39,860 after taxes
An Albertan earning minimum wage and working full-time will earn 18,007 after taxes, $1,923 less than the poverty line

http://www.actiontoendpovertyinalberta.org/poverty_facts

oftenreading

Last-12-Exit said:

You guys act like you can't live off $25,000 a year. It can be done. Even with children.

That depends entirely on where you live.

dignin

oftenreading said:

Last-12-Exit said:

You guys act like you can't live off $25,000 a year. It can be done. Even with children.

That depends entirely on where you live.

I live in Calgary. No way I could live on $25,000 a year.

dignin

Drowned Out said:

ugh don't talk about real estate. I just moved in with my gf in January and decided to rent my place out for a year before selling. Might have been a big mistake :(. Edmonton is a bit more sheltered that way, but if Calgary is getting hit hard, we will follow. Fack.

I just bought my house in Calgary last year. Prices have slowed but are still going up as far as I can tell. But everyone I know, including myself, is worried.

1ThoughtKnown

^^^^^

Ride it out man. All you can do. We bought in Hillhurst. No way we could sell now lol. These in-fills aren't moving.
Back to politics though, did everyone see the first fire Notley had to put out? The homophobic slurs one of her junior MLA's posted on Instagram or Twitter or Pinterest or Facialbook or whatever the kids are into these days
She has been "suspended" and will sit as an independent. Now no one knew who she was, so they definitely didn't vote for her, they voted for Notley. Shouldn't they forfeit that seat and hold a by election?
The people in that riding now have no say in government, which is not their fault. Shouldn't Notley be punished for not properly vetting her candidates? I know she never thought in a million years she would win A single seat in Calgary let alone practically the entire North Side.
She put out the fire by singling this person out and firing them. Seems like the same thing all the parties do, run like hell from controversy.
Wouldn't it be nice for her to be honest? Come out and say the truth. We didn't think we would win, so we threw a nobody in the race and now it came back to bite us because somehow she won the seat.
Instead she is saying "we don't condone this behaviour in a caucus, she must be taught a lesson."
Like she was an experienced politician. This poor girl didn't EVER think she would win and was doing what kids do, right or wrong. Fresh blood in the Leg is good. Backbenchers just toe the party line anyways.
I think they overreacted. Thoughts?

oftenreading

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^^^

Ride it out man. All you can do. We bought in Hillhurst. No way we could sell now lol. These in-fills aren't moving.
Back to politics though, did everyone see the first fire Notley had to put out? The homophobic slurs one of her junior MLA's posted on Instagram or Twitter or Pinterest or Facialbook or whatever the kids are into these days
She has been "suspended" and will sit as an independent. Now no one knew who she was, so they definitely didn't vote for her, they voted for Notley. Shouldn't they forfeit that seat and hold a by election?
The people in that riding now have no say in government, which is not their fault. Shouldn't Notley be punished for not properly vetting her candidates? I know she never thought in a million years she would win A single seat in Calgary let alone practically the entire North Side.
She put out the fire by singling this person out and firing them. Seems like the same thing all the parties do, run like hell from controversy.
Wouldn't it be nice for her to be honest? Come out and say the truth. We didn't think we would win, so we threw a nobody in the race and now it came back to bite us because somehow she won the seat.
Instead she is saying "we don't condone this behaviour in a caucus, she must be taught a lesson."
Like she was an experienced politician. This poor girl didn't EVER think she would win and was doing what kids do, right or wrong. Fresh blood in the Leg is good. Backbenchers just toe the party line anyways.
I think they overreacted. Thoughts?

Just looked at that - seems to be a bit of a train wreck.

The party definitely bears some responsibility for not looking into her more closely. The photos leading to this decision apparently date back at least a year and were on her Facebook page - so no one from the NDP bothered to at least look at FB in all that time?

The voters who elected her also bear responsibility for allowing their enthusiasm for the message of the party to overcome their better judgment of the candidate they were voting for. I don't think it's correct to say that the voters in the riding bear no fault for who the chose to elect, as apparently the photos were easily findable on a public page.

And Drever herself has a share of the responsibility for apparently not considering what the implications were when she agreed to be a candidate.

Did "they" overreact? Depends on who you mean by "they" - the NDP, in suspending her? The media, for publicizing it? The public? I think the NDP had to cut her loose at this point; it wasn't just one photo, it was a whole series of questionable ones over time, so who knows what else is out there. They haven't ruled out bringing her back if she shapes up, so they get to cut their losses now and possibly recoup some of it later.

1ThoughtKnown

^^^^
Good point, the electorate in Drever's riding didn't educate themselves on the candidate and voted blindly for the leader. But how many people on this thread can honestly say they know much about any of the riding candidates (outside of the "stars" like Cabinet ministers et al?)
Most people are guilty of this and vote for the party and party leader. But you may be right, they gave themselves the shaft.
Sad that on the same day the Allouettes sign an openly gay football player, on the other end of the country we have a politician who think homophobic slurs are "funny".
We have a long way to go it appears

dignin

I know Drever's sister personally. Drever is an active member within the LGBT community. Apparently the last homophobic Instagram thing was never intended to be homophobic, but I agree the optics did not look good and Notley's hand was forced.

I also feel sorry for her, and in this day and age how many young people don't have stupid shit they have said or done pasted all over social media? If social media was around when I was young I would be fucked. A lot of skeletons in that closet.

The fact is she was targeted and attacked and thrown out. This may not be the last MLA that has to go through this......it has american style politics written all over it and it's dirty. Is this really how we want things to go? I do not. We already have trouble finding good people to engage in politics and this I think sets a dangerous president. Who would want to sign up for those kind of attacks? Not me.

Maybe Drever will work hard and get herself back into caucus. I think that would be great for everyone involved.

dignin

By the way, 1thought, glad to have you on board here in the AMT. Always great to have a different perspective.

oftenreading

^^^ Yes, very few are squeaky clean and there are certainly those on all sides that will put their efforts into digging up the dirt rather than working for the constituents. However, I think Drever just kind of set herself up for this, because it wasn't just one dodgy photo, it was a whole series over time that hit a lot of hot buttons. The metal band faux-sexual assault, someone giving the finger to the flag, the possible homophobia - none of that looks good for an elected official. With politics there's going to come some scrutiny, even if that often goes over the top now.

I'm not on fb, nor do I ever want to be, so I don't even know if this is an option, but wouldn't it have been possible to go back and remove those photos from her fb page at the least, if anyone had thought to do that? Sure, they might have still been tracked down, but at least they wouldn't have still been displayed as if she proudly endorsed them.

dignin

Yeah, I don't know why she didn't erase that stuff. Maybe she did but someone had screen captured all of it before it was erased. Either way it was all a serious lack of judgement on her part.

My friend who was just elected has been careful about what she posts for years, knowing that one day she was going to run for office. Drever obviously was a little more short sighted. Like 1thought said, when she threw her hat in the ring she had know idea she was actually going to win.

oftenreading

I might be naive but I hope that the current fashion for 24/7 oversharing will wane and people will go back to being a little more discrete, as the current generation learns that what they posted when they were young and foolish may come back to bite them when they are old and foolish.

This is one of many reasons why I have virtually no online presence (in my own name) - easier to hide the bodies!

PJfanwillneverleave1

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^^
Good point, the electorate in Drever's riding didn't educate themselves on the candidate and voted blindly for the leader. But how many people on this thread can honestly say they know much about any of the riding candidates (outside of the "stars" like Cabinet ministers et al?)
Most people are guilty of this and vote for the party and party leader. But you may be right, they gave themselves the shaft.
Sad that on the same day the Allouettes sign an openly gay football player, on the other end of the country we have a politician who think homophobic slurs are "funny".
We have a long way to go it appears

After today I think Albertans are realizing they are not sure what they elected.
I don't think it is a very strong start for party to have " openly surprised candidates that won"
What does this say about the party? - Some people ran for fun.
This is a pattern with the NDP. Just like that person who was sun tanning in Vegas when she found out she won the election when she received a text.
A new provincial cabinet almost halved for a resource rich province as Alta only sends one signal, - they are in over their heads.

dignin

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^^
Good point, the electorate in Drever's riding didn't educate themselves on the candidate and voted blindly for the leader. But how many people on this thread can honestly say they know much about any of the riding candidates (outside of the "stars" like Cabinet ministers et al?)
Most people are guilty of this and vote for the party and party leader. But you may be right, they gave themselves the shaft.
Sad that on the same day the Allouettes sign an openly gay football player, on the other end of the country we have a politician who think homophobic slurs are "funny".
We have a long way to go it appears

After today I think Albertans are realizing they are not sure what they elected.
I don't think it is a very strong start for party to have " openly surprised candidates that won"
What does this say about the party? - Some people ran for fun.
This is a pattern with the NDP. Just like that person who was sun tanning in Vegas when she found out she won the election when she received a text.
A new provincial cabinet almost halved for a resource rich province as Alta only sends one signal, - they are in over their heads.

I suspect you have no idea how Albertans are feeling PJFan. Don't you live on the east coast?

Big excited crowds out to see the new cabinet get sworn in today. A feeling of optimism here, a fresh start. I was sure excited to see my friend get sworn into cabinet. She is one of the smartest, toughest people I know and I feel lucky to have her representing me.

And is this the NDP candidate you speak of? http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ruth-ellen-brosseau-s-rise-from-paper-candidate-to-ndp-star-1.2640310

Ruth Ellen Brosseau's rise from paper candidate to NDP star

She seems to be doing all right.