legalize drugs ?????

Drowned Out

prism wrote:

did anyone else notice this article godfather posted was written by none other than william bennet...the first drug czar? is there any wonder why it's so full of disinformation and bullshit? look how much power & profit he's gained from 'the war on drugs' :roll:

holy! I never noticed that, hadn't gotten back to the article yet....not even worth replying to the article in that case...what a joke, shame on CNN.
And good work in your state, prism :thumbup:

Jason P wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Well it depends how you set up legalization....I'm def not talking about selling heroin at the 7/11....but if you don't think you could score coke within a half hour by going to a nightclub tonight, or asking your weed dealer, I think you're probably mistaken. Prohibition interconnects all drugs (NOT by a 'gateway')....
I'm not talking about making it legal to get high at work either, so that wouldn't change, would it?

You would have to assume I live near a nightclub.

How many fb friends ya got, Jason? All it takes is to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy....you could probably think of few people on this forum who could find you someone willing to mail or deliver to you within 24 hrs ....I'm serious man...drugs are not hard to find without risking your livelihood (much). It's all about motivation, right?

Firefox wrote:

I think some interesting points were made by Drowned Out. Gives me something to think about anyway. Sorry you've both had to see the devastation that goes along with addiction.

Thanks (and to you too, hedonist)...
Actually, I re-read my post and realized people could have interpreted it as me losing my gf and best friend three years apart...that's not the case; neither were in my day-to-day life when they died. I don't know why I had to clarify that, but it felt like I was making the loss more dramatic to further my position if I didn't :? They were both still obviously very special to me...The girl had moved to your city...she actually died the night before PJ's 98 concert there....I found out as I left my friends apt, on my way to the show....Should also say: she was no addict.
Glad to hear you're thinking - prob the best compliment a person can hope for on the train Lots of places to learn about drug reform and progressive (and successful) treatments around Van

hedonist

Drowned Out wrote:

Pushers? Been watching some afterschool specials lately, have we? Seen that one where Helen Hunt jumps out a window? Classic stuff.

Oh lordy...earlier I was thinking about the portrayal of "potheads" on old shows such as Dragnet, Adam-12, even Room 222!

Drowned Out

hedonist wrote:

Oh lordy...earlier I was thinking about the portrayal of "potheads" on old shows such as Dragnet, Adam-12, even Room 222!

I know! And people laugh at an ancient propaganda piece like Reefer Madness without thinking of how much of this stuff we have been exposed to ALL ALONG! RECENT ad campaigns showing women being raped after smoking a joint? Or people running over kids while pulling away from their munchie-fix at a drive-thru....it's psychological warfare on our tax dime....so many people with no knowledge at all of the drug war see this shit and are shocked enough to stop thinking about solutions.


That's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is going to be against and I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about.....noam chomsky

(speaking of 'support our troops', but it applies to every propaganda campaign)

peacefrompaul

Drowned Out wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Oh lordy...earlier I was thinking about the portrayal of "potheads" on old shows such as Dragnet, Adam-12, even Room 222!

I know! And people laugh at an ancient propaganda piece like Reefer Madness without thinking of how much of this stuff we have been exposed to ALL ALONG! RECENT ad campaigns showing women being raped after smoking a joint? Or people running over kids while pulling away from their munchie-fix at a drive-thru....it's psychological warfare on our tax dime....so many people with no knowledge at all of the drug war see this shit and are shocked enough to stop thinking about solutions.


That's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is going to be against and I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about.....noam chomsky

(speaking of 'support our troops', but it applies to every propaganda campaign)

Reefer Madness anyone?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0128930236

brianlux

It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"

prism

one reason marijuana always comes into it when talking about legalizing drugs is it's still classified as a schedule 1 drug by the dea. so on down to local level law enforcement it's considered a controlled substance. as benign as pot is, no doubt that's fucked up & backwards...especially when things like meth & cocaine are listed as schedule 2 drugs. yet the d.e.a. refuses to even review the way any drugs (legal or illegal) are scheduled.

alot of ppl get how ridiculous all that is...yet there's a good % of ppl in the us that believe because pot is listed schedule 1 that it IS just as bad as heroin, lsd & other schedule 1 drugs. not realizing that the fed gov has a vested interest in it remaining that way and keeping the public ignorant of the facts on how harmless it is

so if voting to legalize pot in WA or any other state gets ppl that aren't aware to open thier eyes to the facts surrounding it, that's a step in the right direction...time for it happen somewhere, somehow



much like some have said when it comes to harder drugs i think they also should be legal...place all those resources in education based upon facts & treatment for addicts....so police, jails, prisons, & the courts are freed up to go after actual criminals that do harm others

pandora

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

I wonder if I am the friend ...


yes ... by all means let's legalize Crystal Meth :?


METH MOUTH

I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.

I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time.
And a much more active plan on prevention.

I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.

After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.

For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,

I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.

Sucks. that person made a choice

I'm sorry that is writing off another human being.

We all have choices its the plan but so is caring enough for others.

Being the old lady I am I often think about the world after my exit,
when one sees mortality in years not decades it can change the perspective
one once had.

I think what's next...

legalized hunting of people perhaps :?

I mean that which is hunted still made the choice. For whatever reward.
Would a society say that too is ok?
allowing another human being to hunt down and kill another because
it is their choices.
Perhaps only the depraved society would allow this

That is exactly what pushers do, they hunt down our children and they kill them,
long before they have mature reason to make a life changing,
life losing decision.

Hold a person in your arms ravaged by these kinds of drugs, your mother, your father,
brother, sister, best friend... CHILD and you make a choice.
It would be my choice to try to save them and live in a society that would never condone
the use Crystal Meth.

pandora

Drowned Out wrote:

pandora wrote:

I wonder if I am the friend ...

And you gave me shit about using the :roll: emoticon before .....gotta wonder if that smiley is a manifestation of the pleasure you take in antagonizing me. Such disrespect, as you would lecture...

pandora wrote:

I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.

Pushers? Been watching some afterschool specials lately, have we? Seen that one where Helen Hunt jumps out a window? Classic stuff.
Most of the stories of schoolyard dealers hooking your kids on drugs for free are made up by guilty-parent syndrome, suburban marketing gurus. The user makes the choice to use every time they get high. But people need a scapegoat right?
Stronger punishment for traffickers completely belies this notion:

pandora wrote:

I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time.
And a much more active plan on prevention.

You can't have it both ways. It's a conflict of interest...plus, it raises the stakes in the drug war...which raises prices...which raises the desperation level of addicts...which raises crime rates...and so on and so on. confucius got nothin on norm. Your war cannot be won, or even fought effectively.

pandora wrote:

I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.

After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.

For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,

I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.

Sorry, but this is all rhetoric that could be applied to my side of the debate as easily as yours. But keep condescendingly thinking you've got the moral high ground....what was it last time? I might as well be putting a gun to my kids head if I support legalization? :roll:

I used a smilie because I am proud and happy to be Godfather's friend ...
you are making this very negative and about you :?

You know where I stand I know where you do
time will tell if you will ever change how you feel about this
if you will ever hold your child on the brink of death, bargaining the devil himself.
I know what brings me to where I am and I know I will never change my mind

so we will agree to disagree

Jason P

Drowned Out wrote:

Jason P wrote:

You would have to assume I live near a nightclub.

How many fb friends ya got, Jason? All it takes is to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy....you could probably think of few people on this forum who could find you someone willing to mail or deliver to you within 24 hrs ....I'm serious man...drugs are not hard to find without risking your livelihood (much). It's all about motivation, right?

I've avoided The Facebook so far ... although I did set up an account for the first time a few weeks ago. As soon as I finished setting it up, I was very surprised to see about 40 friend requests from people I know. I did a Homer Simpson scream and ripping the power plug out to the wall. It freaked me out even more that people called me and said that they saw me log in. :shock: And people here complain about The Patriot Act ....

Everything is possible, but there is still a risk to engage in illegal barter (especially w/ parties you are not familiar with), to possess illegal barter, and to work in an environment that you could be tested for consuming illegal barter.

I do think that the fight against weed is not logical nor effective. I think it would be wise if it was legalized so that resources could focus on stopping the hard drug market.

peacefrompaul

pandora wrote:

I'm sorry that is writing off another human being.

We all have choices its the plan but so is caring enough for others.

Being the old lady I am I often think about the world after my exit,
when one sees mortality in years not decades it can change the perspective
one once had.

I think what's next...

legalized hunting of people perhaps :?

I mean that which is hunted still made the choice. For whatever reward.
Would a society say that too is ok?
allowing another human being to hunt down and kill another because
it is their choices.
Perhaps only the depraved society would allow this

That is exactly what pushers do, they hunt down our children and they kill them,
long before they have mature reason to make a life changing,
life losing decision.

Hold a person in your arms ravaged by these kinds of drugs, your mother, your father,
brother, sister, best friend... CHILD and you make a choice.
It would be my choice to try to save them and live in a society that would never condone
the use Crystal Meth.

War is hunting people is it not?

I have three friends that were addicted to meth. It destroyed their lives and they all went and got treatment. Treatment essentially is the answer. It's not that hard of a task to get the drug and it's illegal. I certainly don't condone the use of it but humans have free will. Certainly we need restrictions but this war on drugs has not been a restriction that has benefited our society simply because it is not effective. I am all for teaching children about the dangers of these powerful and terrible substances but I ultimately think it is your decision about what you do with your own body whether that be doing drugs or getting an abortion. I I guess I personally have more faith in mankind to make the right decision about their own lives than many of us do.

Thank you for your response

BLACK35

pandora wrote:

I wonder if I am the friend ...


yes ... by all means let's legalize Crystal Meth :?


METH MOUTH

I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.

I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time.
And a much more active plan on prevention.

I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.

After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.

For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,

I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.

PUCKER UP BABY, I NEED A KISS

pandora

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

I'm sorry that is writing off another human being.

We all have choices its the plan but so is caring enough for others.

Being the old lady I am I often think about the world after my exit,
when one sees mortality in years not decades it can change the perspective
one once had.

I think what's next...

legalized hunting of people perhaps :?

I mean that which is hunted still made the choice. For whatever reward.
Would a society say that too is ok?
allowing another human being to hunt down and kill another because
it is their choices.
Perhaps only the depraved society would allow this

That is exactly what pushers do, they hunt down our children and they kill them,
long before they have mature reason to make a life changing,
life losing decision.

Hold a person in your arms ravaged by these kinds of drugs, your mother, your father,
brother, sister, best friend... CHILD and you make a choice.
It would be my choice to try to save them and live in a society that would never condone
the use Crystal Meth.

War is hunting people is it not?

I have three friends that were addicted to meth. It destroyed their lives and they all went and got treatment. Treatment essentially is the answer. It's not that hard of a task to get the drug and it's illegal. I certainly don't condone the use of it but humans have free will. Certainly we need restrictions but this war on drugs has not been a restriction that has benefited our society simply because it is not effective. I am all for teaching children about the dangers of these powerful and terrible substances but I ultimately think it is your decision about what you do with your own body whether that be doing drugs or getting an abortion. I I guess I personally have more faith in mankind to make the right decision about their own lives than many of us do.

Thank you for your response

no war is not hunting people for pleasure

to legalize is to condone the use ...
this the message the society in place sends
like abortion, like capital punishment, when something is legal it says
society agrees with the practice/use of... like when marijuana is legalized
that is the society accepting the use of for it's intended purpose.

Because this war on drugs is less than efficient a society doesn't swing it to no war on drugs
it looks for ways to fix the problem ...this is common sense.
We can find many common sense answers to the problems we have
without condoning the use of hard drugs..

Just to help you understand though and with great respect for what you have experienced
a friend is nothing like a child... the realm of difference can be unimaginable until
you experience a lifetime with a child only to lose them to drugs.

pandora

Addiction is never the plan...


The rush is like nothing else i have ever felt ...

forget everything i am not ... i am not not
i am i am i am ... now

i am beautiful i am powerful
funny intelligent
spiritual connected invincible
super sexy .. sex is unbelievable another level of existence
i get you ... where have you been all my life you are so part of me

this
this completes me
this is where i need to be

just a little more please lets do it again

its not the same i need a little more just a little more
more
more

don't tell me no

i'll kill you i'll kill you if you say no!

give me my money I hate you

i can't see myself i can't look in the mirror i can't feel anything
no pleasure no pain no shame no love

more please more and just let me die please

please ... just let me die

lukin2006

http://www.cbc.ca/news/offbeat/story/20 ... s-pot.html

Paul McCartney quits smoking pot for daughter

Sir Paul McCartney has reportedly canned his cannabis habit to be a better parent.

The former Beatle, who has spoken openly in the past about experimenting with harder drugs including cocaine and heroin, told Rolling Stone magazine in a recent interview he stopped smoking marijuana for the sake of his eight-year-old daughter, Beatrice.

"I smoked my share. When you're bringing up a youngster, your sense of responsibility does kick in, if you're lucky, at some point," he told the magazine.

Beatrice is McCartney's daughter from his second marriage, with ex-wife Heather Mills. He has four other children.

McCartney, 69, is currently married to American trucking heiress Nancy Shevell.

The rock legend's appreciation for pot has been well known for decades.

In 1980, he was arrested in Tokyo and deported while on tour with his band Wings, after customs officers there found nearly half a pound of marijuana in his baggage.

Mills claimed McCartney would smoke joints as often as people would drink cups of tea during their divorce proceedings.

The new Rolling Stone interview shows an apparent change of heart.

"Enough's enough — you just don't seem to think it's necessary," he said.


he is proof that at the very least cannabis should be legal. every thing I've read, every documentary I've seen points to the fact that at the very least cannabis should probably be legalized. My guess is it's big pharma and the religious nut bars in politics keeping it illegal.

Pepe Silvia

brianlux wrote:

It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"

you say it's benign (and i agree) yet that is not how society views it. i had three different school aged children (from elementary to middle school) all tell me they learned in school marijuana is the most dangerous drug there is and the worst drug you could ever do. my first reaction was wtf???? what about meth?? what about crack?? what about heroin?? "no, they said marijuana was the worst"

lukin2006

Pepe Silvia wrote:

brianlux wrote:

It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"

you say it's benign (and i agree) yet that is not how society views it. i had three different school aged children (from elementary to middle school) all tell me they learned in school marijuana is the most dangerous drug there is and the worst drug you could ever do. my first reaction was wtf???? what about meth?? what about crack?? what about heroin?? "no, they said marijuana was the worst"

They're going to teach them that in the schools because in most cases the government sets the curriculum...and that's what the government wants to brain wash each generation into believing...from everything I've read and watched it might just be the most useful drug we can ingest.

I'm pretty sure big pharma has lined the pockets of politicians to keep it illegal...and that is so sad...we've had more drugstore robberies in the last 2-3 years just for oxycontin, which appears to be readily available from doctors these days and highly addictive.

lukin2006

OxyContin withdrawal will create First Nations health crisis, say chiefs

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/639 ... say-chiefs

SweetChildofMine

I would guess instead about fighting about drugs. I myself would find out why people are medicating themselves legally and illegally. Make the change from there.


Is it society? ummm... why yes.

Pepe Silvia

lukin2006 wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

brianlux wrote:

It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"

you say it's benign (and i agree) yet that is not how society views it. i had three different school aged children (from elementary to middle school) all tell me they learned in school marijuana is the most dangerous drug there is and the worst drug you could ever do. my first reaction was wtf???? what about meth?? what about crack?? what about heroin?? "no, they said marijuana was the worst"

They're going to teach them that in the schools because in most cases the government sets the curriculum...and that's what the government wants to brain wash each generation into believing...from everything I've read and watched it might just be the most useful drug we can ingest.

I'm pretty sure big pharma has lined the pockets of politicians to keep it illegal...and that is so sad...we've had more drugstore robberies in the last 2-3 years just for oxycontin, which appears to be readily available from doctors these days and highly addictive.

i've known of several doctors people went to to get all sorts of drugs, all they had to do was pay for the visit (and if you are a woman you have to be given a breast exam each time).....want xanax or valium? just say you have social anxiety. want oxycontin, vicodin or something similar? just sat say you get back aches.

let's not even get into pill farms.....

from 98-11 big pharma/health care products have spent $2,322,105,797 lobbying the us government, just in 2011 they spent $237,504,544, pfizer spent $12,440,000 themselves in 2011

Godfather.

pandora wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

pandora wrote:

I wonder if I am the friend ...

And you gave me shit about using the :roll: emoticon before .....gotta wonder if that smiley is a manifestation of the pleasure you take in antagonizing me. Such disrespect, as you would lecture...

pandora wrote:

I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.

Pushers? Been watching some afterschool specials lately, have we? Seen that one where Helen Hunt jumps out a window? Classic stuff.
Most of the stories of schoolyard dealers hooking your kids on drugs for free are made up by guilty-parent syndrome, suburban marketing gurus. The user makes the choice to use every time they get high. But people need a scapegoat right?
Stronger punishment for traffickers completely belies this notion:

pandora wrote:

I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time.
And a much more active plan on prevention.

You can't have it both ways. It's a conflict of interest...plus, it raises the stakes in the drug war...which raises prices...which raises the desperation level of addicts...which raises crime rates...and so on and so on. confucius got nothin on norm. Your war cannot be won, or even fought effectively.

pandora wrote:

I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.

After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.

For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,

I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.

Sorry, but this is all rhetoric that could be applied to my side of the debate as easily as yours. But keep condescendingly thinking you've got the moral high ground....what was it last time? I might as well be putting a gun to my kids head if I support legalization? :roll:

I used a smilie because I am proud and happy to be Godfather's friend ...
you are making this very negative and about you :?

You know where I stand I know where you do
time will tell if you will ever change how you feel about this
if you will ever hold your child on the brink of death, bargaining the devil himself.
I know what brings me to where I am and I know I will never change my mind

so we will agree to disagree

and I you Pandi !
thank you !

Godfather.