yes ... by all means let's legalize Crystal Meth :?
METH MOUTH
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time. And a much more active plan on prevention.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
^^^^^Is speaking of the effects of meth of which I know not much. Is your feeling the same for all drugs weed, herione, cocaine etc? I do feel cannibis should be legalize...if the drug is grown from the earth and use from that state then make it legal.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I don't necessarily condone the use of hard(er) drugs, but I do condone the choice to go down that path. I'm sure I'll elaborate later.
That said - Drowned Out...wow. A lot of loss you've dealt with, as with so many others' experiences I've read here. I'm sorry. And I thank you for the eloquence and honesty with which you all have made your well-taken points.
Just gonna comment on pot for now
Despite it being illegal - and granted, the laws are thankfully much laxer here now - I've never had trouble getting weed (either from my long-time friend who delivers or when I was much younger and would drive through what we called Little Tijuana trying to score a hopefully decent dimebag (ha! I haven't used that term since those days).
We even got some for my 80-year-old mom when she was recovering from painful shoulder replacement surgery. It did her some good. Not a lot, but some.
I don't think it's a gateway unless the other variables are there too, as was commented on earlier. It's helpful, natural, and fun. I've been smoking for about 30 years now (holy hell - 30!), and I'm in a solid relationship, hold a great job, make a good living, have no debt except for our mortgage and his car, and am happy. So, it can be done.
Also to elaborate on the earlier Hicks quote: "Pot shouldn't just be legal...it should be mandatory"
yes ... by all means let's legalize Crystal Meth :?
METH MOUTH
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time. And a much more active plan on prevention.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
did anyone else notice this article godfather posted was written by none other than william bennet...the first drug czar? is there any wonder why it's so full of disinformation and bullshit? look how much power & profit he's gained from 'the war on drugs' :roll:
anyway...very glad my signature was one to get this initiative on the ballot in November. from what i've heard from ppl is there's plenty of voters that don't smoke themselves but still see the pros that are planning to vote for it. can't wait to fill (something and) my ballot out in Nov.
Washington state marijuana legalization headed for ballot
By Alex Dobuzinskis
Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:30pm EST
(Reuters) - Supporters of legalizing marijuana for recreational use have submitted enough signatures to put the matter to voters in Washington state in a bold move that, if successful, could put Olympia on a collision course with the federal government.
The group New Approach Washington submitted nearly 278,000 valid signatures for the measure, more than required to put it on the November ballot, David Ammons, a spokesman for the Washington Secretary of State's office, said in a statement.
The move comes as federal prosecutors have sought to crank up pressure on several mostly western states, including Washington, that have legalized medical marijuana even as cannibis remains classified as an illegal narcotic under federal law.
The proposal, if approved by voters, would allow marijuana sales to people 21 and older, permit state taxes to be collected on the drug, ban pot advertising and prohibit driving under the influence of cannabis.
Supporters of legalizing marijuana, who include acting Seattle city attorney Peter Holmes, say the federal prohibition on the drug has not curbed use and that it enriches drug cartels.
"This is the grown-up approach to regulating a relatively harmless drug," Holmes said.
Opponents of legalization say it would lead to more abuse of the drug, including by young people, and that underground sales would continue.
"There will always be a black market. That's been proven with cigarettes with the tobacco industry," said Calvina Fay, head of the Florida-based Drug Free America Foundation. "Even though tobacco is legal and it's regulated, there's still a huge global black market."
Washington is one of 16 states that, along with the nation's capital, have decriminalized medical marijuana. But federal agents have raided medical marijuana dispensaries in several states, including Washington, in recent months.
Under state law, the recreational legalization initiative next heads to the Washington State Legislature, which has the option of avoiding a popular vote by itself enacting the proposal to legalize marijuana, Ammons said.
The legislature could also allow the measure to go to the ballot alongside an alternative from lawmakers, Ammons said.
Alison Holcomb, campaign director of New Approach Washington, has said she did not expect the legislature would enact the proposal on its own, but would leave the issue for voters to decide.
In 2010, a measure to legalize marijuana in California lost at the ballot box when less than 47 percent of voters approved it.
No modern, affluent nation has ever legalized commercial production and distribution of marijuana, according to research organization RAND Corp.
In the Netherlands, famous for its Amsterdam cafes where guests buy and smoke marijuana, authorities allow adults to buy the drug but the country officially has a policy that commercial production of it is illegal, said Beau Kilmer, co-director of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center.
And you gave me shit about using the :roll: emoticon before .....gotta wonder if that smiley is a manifestation of the pleasure you take in antagonizing me. Such disrespect, as you would lecture...
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
Pushers? Been watching some afterschool specials lately, have we? Seen that one where Helen Hunt jumps out a window? Classic stuff.
Most of the stories of schoolyard dealers hooking your kids on drugs for free are made up by guilty-parent syndrome, suburban marketing gurus. The user makes the choice to use every time they get high. But people need a scapegoat right?
Stronger punishment for traffickers completely belies this notion:
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time. And a much more active plan on prevention.
You can't have it both ways. It's a conflict of interest...plus, it raises the stakes in the drug war...which raises prices...which raises the desperation level of addicts...which raises crime rates...and so on and so on. confucius got nothin on norm. Your war cannot be won, or even fought effectively.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
Sorry, but this is all rhetoric that could be applied to my side of the debate as easily as yours. But keep condescendingly thinking you've got the moral high ground....what was it last time? I might as well be putting a gun to my kids head if I support legalization? :roll:
Trying to legislate that people take care of themselves (in any form) is ridiculous (not to mention 100% patently unconstitutional).
The last time this made "sense" was 2000 years ago in Old Testament times (lol).
You don't tell someone what they should or should not consumer,
and you do not enact criminal penalties against them for it, either.
You have no idea how much butter I should or should not consume,
neither have you any idea how much pot, blow, opium, MDMA, lsd, mushrooms, or DMT i should or should not consume.
There is NO difference between BUTTER and DRUGS.
We need laws to stop people from killing themselves with drugs,
like we need laws to stop people from killing themselves with their food addictions and poor diet.
All we need is well regulated, pure alternatives to bad street drugs and their toxic culture.
And we need THE AVAILABILITY of compassionate CARE (rehabilitation, clinics, etc) ...
NO ONE needs (and most will not accept or be successful with) FORCED CARE.
The article's dubious self-defeating logic is so glaring it hurts.
If what we need is more mothers like Whitney Houston's, who GOT COURT ORDERED TREATMENT, then why is her poor daughter dead?
People have drug problems for most of the same reasons they have other severely debilitating \ self-limiting life problems -- they stem from having a lack of self-worth, lack of positive roll-models, lack of unconditional love in their lives, lack of support structure.
The ONLY grounds used to justify the War on Drugs is essentially the notion that such a fight HELPS TO IMPROVE THE SOCIAL ORDER (it makes "bad people" - drug addicts & drug dealers - in to "better" people, or keeps them away from "better" people entirely -- in jail).
If you want to improve the social order there are plenty of BENEVOLENT ways to do that.
You don't have to RUIN lives for the sake of "saving" them.
When a drug dealer CAN NOT compete ...
he WILL NOT compete.
When a drug abuser HAS AN ALTERNATIVE,
he MAY (OR MAY NOT) ***CHOOSE*** THAT ALTERNATIVE.
Even if you DO legislate a "choice" for him (ie. court mandated treatment) ... he may (and probably will) NOT accept it.
how you say.....quoted for truth?
a-fucking-men.
The thing is....as I'm sure you know....the reasons for the war on drugs are much more odius than improving the social order...that's something like the third layer of the propaganda onion, after 'saving lives', and 'preventing crime'....then there are the pharma/legal drug layers, govt corruption, black op funding, and the prison industrial complex layers....so entrenched, it's daunting as hell.
Good for Washington! This made me smile, and not just because I partake.
It just makes sense, and I hope to hell my state is smart enough to follow suit.
(hiya, pris :wave: )
also it makes sense because last nov voters decided liquor is to be sold in retail outlets. so if this passes it means all these state liquor stores that are closing down this year can be converted into weed stores :thumbup:
did anyone else notice this article godfather posted was written by none other than william bennet...the first drug czar? is there any wonder why it's so full of disinformation and bullshit? look how much power & profit he's gained from 'the war on drugs' :roll:
holy! I never noticed that, hadn't gotten back to the article yet....not even worth replying to the article in that case...what a joke, shame on CNN.
And good work in your state, prism :thumbup:
Well it depends how you set up legalization....I'm def not talking about selling heroin at the 7/11....but if you don't think you could score coke within a half hour by going to a nightclub tonight, or asking your weed dealer, I think you're probably mistaken. Prohibition interconnects all drugs (NOT by a 'gateway')....
I'm not talking about making it legal to get high at work either, so that wouldn't change, would it?
You would have to assume I live near a nightclub.
How many fb friends ya got, Jason? All it takes is to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy....you could probably think of few people on this forum who could find you someone willing to mail or deliver to you within 24 hrs ....I'm serious man...drugs are not hard to find without risking your livelihood (much). It's all about motivation, right?
I think some interesting points were made by Drowned Out. Gives me something to think about anyway. Sorry you've both had to see the devastation that goes along with addiction.
Thanks (and to you too, hedonist)...
Actually, I re-read my post and realized people could have interpreted it as me losing my gf and best friend three years apart...that's not the case; neither were in my day-to-day life when they died. I don't know why I had to clarify that, but it felt like I was making the loss more dramatic to further my position if I didn't :? They were both still obviously very special to me...The girl had moved to your city...she actually died the night before PJ's 98 concert there....I found out as I left my friends apt, on my way to the show....Should also say: she was no addict.
Glad to hear you're thinking - prob the best compliment a person can hope for on the train Lots of places to learn about drug reform and progressive (and successful) treatments around Van
Oh lordy...earlier I was thinking about the portrayal of "potheads" on old shows such as Dragnet, Adam-12, even Room 222!
I know! And people laugh at an ancient propaganda piece like Reefer Madness without thinking of how much of this stuff we have been exposed to ALL ALONG! RECENT ad campaigns showing women being raped after smoking a joint? Or people running over kids while pulling away from their munchie-fix at a drive-thru....it's psychological warfare on our tax dime....so many people with no knowledge at all of the drug war see this shit and are shocked enough to stop thinking about solutions.
That's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is going to be against and I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about.....noam chomsky
(speaking of 'support our troops', but it applies to every propaganda campaign)
Oh lordy...earlier I was thinking about the portrayal of "potheads" on old shows such as Dragnet, Adam-12, even Room 222!
I know! And people laugh at an ancient propaganda piece like Reefer Madness without thinking of how much of this stuff we have been exposed to ALL ALONG! RECENT ad campaigns showing women being raped after smoking a joint? Or people running over kids while pulling away from their munchie-fix at a drive-thru....it's psychological warfare on our tax dime....so many people with no knowledge at all of the drug war see this shit and are shocked enough to stop thinking about solutions.
That's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is going to be against and I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about.....noam chomsky
(speaking of 'support our troops', but it applies to every propaganda campaign)
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
one reason marijuana always comes into it when talking about legalizing drugs is it's still classified as a schedule 1 drug by the dea. so on down to local level law enforcement it's considered a controlled substance. as benign as pot is, no doubt that's fucked up & backwards...especially when things like meth & cocaine are listed as schedule 2 drugs. yet the d.e.a. refuses to even review the way any drugs (legal or illegal) are scheduled.
alot of ppl get how ridiculous all that is...yet there's a good % of ppl in the us that believe because pot is listed schedule 1 that it IS just as bad as heroin, lsd & other schedule 1 drugs. not realizing that the fed gov has a vested interest in it remaining that way and keeping the public ignorant of the facts on how harmless it is
so if voting to legalize pot in WA or any other state gets ppl that aren't aware to open thier eyes to the facts surrounding it, that's a step in the right direction...time for it happen somewhere, somehow
much like some have said when it comes to harder drugs i think they also should be legal...place all those resources in education based upon facts & treatment for addicts....so police, jails, prisons, & the courts are freed up to go after actual criminals that do harm others
yes ... by all means let's legalize Crystal Meth :?
METH MOUTH
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time. And a much more active plan on prevention.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
Sucks. that person made a choice
I'm sorry that is writing off another human being.
We all have choices its the plan but so is caring enough for others.
Being the old lady I am I often think about the world after my exit,
when one sees mortality in years not decades it can change the perspective
one once had.
I think what's next...
legalized hunting of people perhaps :?
I mean that which is hunted still made the choice. For whatever reward.
Would a society say that too is ok?
allowing another human being to hunt down and kill another because
it is their choices.
Perhaps only the depraved society would allow this
That is exactly what pushers do, they hunt down our children and they kill them,
long before they have mature reason to make a life changing, life losing decision.
Hold a person in your arms ravaged by these kinds of drugs, your mother, your father,
brother, sister, best friend... CHILD and you make a choice.
It would be my choice to try to save them and live in a society that would never condone
the use Crystal Meth.
And you gave me shit about using the :roll: emoticon before .....gotta wonder if that smiley is a manifestation of the pleasure you take in antagonizing me. Such disrespect, as you would lecture...
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
Pushers? Been watching some afterschool specials lately, have we? Seen that one where Helen Hunt jumps out a window? Classic stuff.
Most of the stories of schoolyard dealers hooking your kids on drugs for free are made up by guilty-parent syndrome, suburban marketing gurus. The user makes the choice to use every time they get high. But people need a scapegoat right?
Stronger punishment for traffickers completely belies this notion:
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time. And a much more active plan on prevention.
You can't have it both ways. It's a conflict of interest...plus, it raises the stakes in the drug war...which raises prices...which raises the desperation level of addicts...which raises crime rates...and so on and so on. confucius got nothin on norm. Your war cannot be won, or even fought effectively.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
Sorry, but this is all rhetoric that could be applied to my side of the debate as easily as yours. But keep condescendingly thinking you've got the moral high ground....what was it last time? I might as well be putting a gun to my kids head if I support legalization? :roll:
I used a smilie because I am proud and happy to be Godfather's friend ...
you are making this very negative and about you :?
You know where I stand I know where you do
time will tell if you will ever change how you feel about this
if you will ever hold your child on the brink of death, bargaining the devil himself.
I know what brings me to where I am and I know I will never change my mind
How many fb friends ya got, Jason? All it takes is to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy....you could probably think of few people on this forum who could find you someone willing to mail or deliver to you within 24 hrs ....I'm serious man...drugs are not hard to find without risking your livelihood (much). It's all about motivation, right?
I've avoided The Facebook so far ... although I did set up an account for the first time a few weeks ago. As soon as I finished setting it up, I was very surprised to see about 40 friend requests from people I know. I did a Homer Simpson scream and ripping the power plug out to the wall. It freaked me out even more that people called me and said that they saw me log in. :shock: And people here complain about The Patriot Act ....
Everything is possible, but there is still a risk to engage in illegal barter (especially w/ parties you are not familiar with), to possess illegal barter, and to work in an environment that you could be tested for consuming illegal barter.
I do think that the fight against weed is not logical nor effective. I think it would be wise if it was legalized so that resources could focus on stopping the hard drug market.
I'm sorry that is writing off another human being.
We all have choices its the plan but so is caring enough for others.
Being the old lady I am I often think about the world after my exit,
when one sees mortality in years not decades it can change the perspective
one once had.
I think what's next...
legalized hunting of people perhaps :?
I mean that which is hunted still made the choice. For whatever reward.
Would a society say that too is ok?
allowing another human being to hunt down and kill another because
it is their choices.
Perhaps only the depraved society would allow this
That is exactly what pushers do, they hunt down our children and they kill them,
long before they have mature reason to make a life changing, life losing decision.
Hold a person in your arms ravaged by these kinds of drugs, your mother, your father,
brother, sister, best friend... CHILD and you make a choice.
It would be my choice to try to save them and live in a society that would never condone
the use Crystal Meth.
War is hunting people is it not?
I have three friends that were addicted to meth. It destroyed their lives and they all went and got treatment. Treatment essentially is the answer. It's not that hard of a task to get the drug and it's illegal. I certainly don't condone the use of it but humans have free will. Certainly we need restrictions but this war on drugs has not been a restriction that has benefited our society simply because it is not effective. I am all for teaching children about the dangers of these powerful and terrible substances but I ultimately think it is your decision about what you do with your own body whether that be doing drugs or getting an abortion. I I guess I personally have more faith in mankind to make the right decision about their own lives than many of us do.
yes ... by all means let's legalize Crystal Meth :?
METH MOUTH
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time. And a much more active plan on prevention.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
PUCKER UP BABY, I NEED A KISS
2005 - London
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I'm sorry that is writing off another human being.
We all have choices its the plan but so is caring enough for others.
Being the old lady I am I often think about the world after my exit,
when one sees mortality in years not decades it can change the perspective
one once had.
I think what's next...
legalized hunting of people perhaps :?
I mean that which is hunted still made the choice. For whatever reward.
Would a society say that too is ok?
allowing another human being to hunt down and kill another because
it is their choices.
Perhaps only the depraved society would allow this
That is exactly what pushers do, they hunt down our children and they kill them,
long before they have mature reason to make a life changing, life losing decision.
Hold a person in your arms ravaged by these kinds of drugs, your mother, your father,
brother, sister, best friend... CHILD and you make a choice.
It would be my choice to try to save them and live in a society that would never condone
the use Crystal Meth.
War is hunting people is it not?
I have three friends that were addicted to meth. It destroyed their lives and they all went and got treatment. Treatment essentially is the answer. It's not that hard of a task to get the drug and it's illegal. I certainly don't condone the use of it but humans have free will. Certainly we need restrictions but this war on drugs has not been a restriction that has benefited our society simply because it is not effective. I am all for teaching children about the dangers of these powerful and terrible substances but I ultimately think it is your decision about what you do with your own body whether that be doing drugs or getting an abortion. I I guess I personally have more faith in mankind to make the right decision about their own lives than many of us do.
Thank you for your response
no war is not hunting people for pleasure
to legalize is to condone the use ...
this the message the society in place sends
like abortion, like capital punishment, when something is legal it says
society agrees with the practice/use of... like when marijuana is legalized
that is the society accepting the use of for it's intended purpose.
Because this war on drugs is less than efficient a society doesn't swing it to no war on drugs
it looks for ways to fix the problem ...this is common sense.
We can find many common sense answers to the problems we have
without condoning the use of hard drugs..
Just to help you understand though and with great respect for what you have experienced
a friend is nothing like a child... the realm of difference can be unimaginable until
you experience a lifetime with a child only to lose them to drugs.
The rush is like nothing else i have ever felt ...
forget everything i am not ... i am not not
i am i am i am ... now
i am beautiful i am powerful
funny intelligent
spiritual connected invincible
super sexy .. sex is unbelievable another level of existence
i get you ... where have you been all my life you are so part of me
this
this completes me
this is where i need to be
just a little more please lets do it again
its not the same i need a little more just a little more
more
more
don't tell me no
i'll kill you i'll kill you if you say no!
give me my money I hate you
i can't see myself i can't look in the mirror i can't feel anything
no pleasure no pain no shame no love
Sir Paul McCartney has reportedly canned his cannabis habit to be a better parent.
The former Beatle, who has spoken openly in the past about experimenting with harder drugs including cocaine and heroin, told Rolling Stone magazine in a recent interview he stopped smoking marijuana for the sake of his eight-year-old daughter, Beatrice.
"I smoked my share. When you're bringing up a youngster, your sense of responsibility does kick in, if you're lucky, at some point," he told the magazine.
Beatrice is McCartney's daughter from his second marriage, with ex-wife Heather Mills. He has four other children.
McCartney, 69, is currently married to American trucking heiress Nancy Shevell.
The rock legend's appreciation for pot has been well known for decades.
In 1980, he was arrested in Tokyo and deported while on tour with his band Wings, after customs officers there found nearly half a pound of marijuana in his baggage.
Mills claimed McCartney would smoke joints as often as people would drink cups of tea during their divorce proceedings.
The new Rolling Stone interview shows an apparent change of heart.
"Enough's enough — you just don't seem to think it's necessary," he said.
he is proof that at the very least cannabis should be legal. every thing I've read, every documentary I've seen points to the fact that at the very least cannabis should probably be legalized. My guess is it's big pharma and the religious nut bars in politics keeping it illegal.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"
you say it's benign (and i agree) yet that is not how society views it. i had three different school aged children (from elementary to middle school) all tell me they learned in school marijuana is the most dangerous drug there is and the worst drug you could ever do. my first reaction was wtf???? what about meth?? what about crack?? what about heroin?? "no, they said marijuana was the worst"
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"
you say it's benign (and i agree) yet that is not how society views it. i had three different school aged children (from elementary to middle school) all tell me they learned in school marijuana is the most dangerous drug there is and the worst drug you could ever do. my first reaction was wtf???? what about meth?? what about crack?? what about heroin?? "no, they said marijuana was the worst"
They're going to teach them that in the schools because in most cases the government sets the curriculum...and that's what the government wants to brain wash each generation into believing...from everything I've read and watched it might just be the most useful drug we can ingest.
I'm pretty sure big pharma has lined the pockets of politicians to keep it illegal...and that is so sad...we've had more drugstore robberies in the last 2-3 years just for oxycontin, which appears to be readily available from doctors these days and highly addictive.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I would guess instead about fighting about drugs. I myself would find out why people are medicating themselves legally and illegally. Make the change from there.
It always kind of makes me half laugh/half frown when discussion of legalizing drugs turns to marijuana. Of course marijuana should be legal but it's so benign compared to meth or heroin or, heck, even booze. It's a bit like talking about weather kick boxing should be legal and all of the sudden everybody is saying, "Damn it! We need to legalize tennis! Grrr!!!"
you say it's benign (and i agree) yet that is not how society views it. i had three different school aged children (from elementary to middle school) all tell me they learned in school marijuana is the most dangerous drug there is and the worst drug you could ever do. my first reaction was wtf???? what about meth?? what about crack?? what about heroin?? "no, they said marijuana was the worst"
They're going to teach them that in the schools because in most cases the government sets the curriculum...and that's what the government wants to brain wash each generation into believing...from everything I've read and watched it might just be the most useful drug we can ingest.
I'm pretty sure big pharma has lined the pockets of politicians to keep it illegal...and that is so sad...we've had more drugstore robberies in the last 2-3 years just for oxycontin, which appears to be readily available from doctors these days and highly addictive.
i've known of several doctors people went to to get all sorts of drugs, all they had to do was pay for the visit (and if you are a woman you have to be given a breast exam each time).....want xanax or valium? just say you have social anxiety. want oxycontin, vicodin or something similar? just sat say you get back aches.
let's not even get into pill farms.....
from 98-11 big pharma/health care products have spent $2,322,105,797 lobbying the us government, just in 2011 they spent $237,504,544, pfizer spent $12,440,000 themselves in 2011
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
And you gave me shit about using the :roll: emoticon before .....gotta wonder if that smiley is a manifestation of the pleasure you take in antagonizing me. Such disrespect, as you would lecture...
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
Pushers? Been watching some afterschool specials lately, have we? Seen that one where Helen Hunt jumps out a window? Classic stuff.
Most of the stories of schoolyard dealers hooking your kids on drugs for free are made up by guilty-parent syndrome, suburban marketing gurus. The user makes the choice to use every time they get high. But people need a scapegoat right?
Stronger punishment for traffickers completely belies this notion:
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time. And a much more active plan on prevention.
You can't have it both ways. It's a conflict of interest...plus, it raises the stakes in the drug war...which raises prices...which raises the desperation level of addicts...which raises crime rates...and so on and so on. confucius got nothin on norm. Your war cannot be won, or even fought effectively.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
Sorry, but this is all rhetoric that could be applied to my side of the debate as easily as yours. But keep condescendingly thinking you've got the moral high ground....what was it last time? I might as well be putting a gun to my kids head if I support legalization? :roll:
I used a smilie because I am proud and happy to be Godfather's friend ...
you are making this very negative and about you :?
You know where I stand I know where you do
time will tell if you will ever change how you feel about this
if you will ever hold your child on the brink of death, bargaining the devil himself.
I know what brings me to where I am and I know I will never change my mind
Comments
yes ... by all means let's legalize Crystal Meth :?
METH MOUTH
I could never condone the use of these types of drugs
I would only support stronger punishment for those who traffic
and sell.... Life in prison no chance for parole.
Pushers are parasites on society.
I would only support no punishment for those who use
with mandatory rehab over prison time.
And a much more active plan on prevention.
I feel we all have a responsibility to each other to protect and love...
there is no place for these type of drugs in that scenario.
After witnessing first hand the destruction of these drugs
in good conscious I can not support legalization.
For those I have lost,
for those I love who have made it through addiction,
I must honor them by fighting against these heartbreaking soul sucking drugs.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
That said - Drowned Out...wow. A lot of loss you've dealt with, as with so many others' experiences I've read here. I'm sorry. And I thank you for the eloquence and honesty with which you all have made your well-taken points.
Just gonna comment on pot for now
Despite it being illegal - and granted, the laws are thankfully much laxer here now - I've never had trouble getting weed (either from my long-time friend who delivers or when I was much younger and would drive through what we called Little Tijuana trying to score a hopefully decent dimebag (ha! I haven't used that term since those days).
We even got some for my 80-year-old mom when she was recovering from painful shoulder replacement surgery. It did her some good. Not a lot, but some.
I don't think it's a gateway unless the other variables are there too, as was commented on earlier. It's helpful, natural, and fun. I've been smoking for about 30 years now (holy hell - 30!), and I'm in a solid relationship, hold a great job, make a good living, have no debt except for our mortgage and his car, and am happy. So, it can be done.
Also to elaborate on the earlier Hicks quote: "Pot shouldn't just be legal...it should be mandatory"
Sucks. that person made a choice
can you hold back the ocean with a broom?
anyway...very glad my signature was one to get this initiative on the ballot in November. from what i've heard from ppl is there's plenty of voters that don't smoke themselves but still see the pros that are planning to vote for it. can't wait to fill (something
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/ ... 7F20120128
Washington state marijuana legalization headed for ballot
By Alex Dobuzinskis
Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:30pm EST
(Reuters) - Supporters of legalizing marijuana for recreational use have submitted enough signatures to put the matter to voters in Washington state in a bold move that, if successful, could put Olympia on a collision course with the federal government.
The group New Approach Washington submitted nearly 278,000 valid signatures for the measure, more than required to put it on the November ballot, David Ammons, a spokesman for the Washington Secretary of State's office, said in a statement.
The move comes as federal prosecutors have sought to crank up pressure on several mostly western states, including Washington, that have legalized medical marijuana even as cannibis remains classified as an illegal narcotic under federal law.
The proposal, if approved by voters, would allow marijuana sales to people 21 and older, permit state taxes to be collected on the drug, ban pot advertising and prohibit driving under the influence of cannabis.
Supporters of legalizing marijuana, who include acting Seattle city attorney Peter Holmes, say the federal prohibition on the drug has not curbed use and that it enriches drug cartels.
"This is the grown-up approach to regulating a relatively harmless drug," Holmes said.
Opponents of legalization say it would lead to more abuse of the drug, including by young people, and that underground sales would continue.
"There will always be a black market. That's been proven with cigarettes with the tobacco industry," said Calvina Fay, head of the Florida-based Drug Free America Foundation. "Even though tobacco is legal and it's regulated, there's still a huge global black market."
Washington is one of 16 states that, along with the nation's capital, have decriminalized medical marijuana. But federal agents have raided medical marijuana dispensaries in several states, including Washington, in recent months.
Under state law, the recreational legalization initiative next heads to the Washington State Legislature, which has the option of avoiding a popular vote by itself enacting the proposal to legalize marijuana, Ammons said.
The legislature could also allow the measure to go to the ballot alongside an alternative from lawmakers, Ammons said.
Alison Holcomb, campaign director of New Approach Washington, has said she did not expect the legislature would enact the proposal on its own, but would leave the issue for voters to decide.
In 2010, a measure to legalize marijuana in California lost at the ballot box when less than 47 percent of voters approved it.
No modern, affluent nation has ever legalized commercial production and distribution of marijuana, according to research organization RAND Corp.
In the Netherlands, famous for its Amsterdam cafes where guests buy and smoke marijuana, authorities allow adults to buy the drug but the country officially has a policy that commercial production of it is illegal, said Beau Kilmer, co-director of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center.
angels share laughter
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It just makes sense, and I hope to hell my state is smart enough to follow suit.
(hiya, pris :wave: )
Pushers? Been watching some afterschool specials lately, have we? Seen that one where Helen Hunt jumps out a window? Classic stuff.
Most of the stories of schoolyard dealers hooking your kids on drugs for free are made up by guilty-parent syndrome, suburban marketing gurus. The user makes the choice to use every time they get high. But people need a scapegoat right?
Stronger punishment for traffickers completely belies this notion:
You can't have it both ways. It's a conflict of interest...plus, it raises the stakes in the drug war...which raises prices...which raises the desperation level of addicts...which raises crime rates...and so on and so on. confucius got nothin on norm. Your war cannot be won, or even fought effectively.
Sorry, but this is all rhetoric that could be applied to my side of the debate as easily as yours. But keep condescendingly thinking you've got the moral high ground....what was it last time? I might as well be putting a gun to my kids head if I support legalization? :roll:
a-fucking-men.
The thing is....as I'm sure you know....the reasons for the war on drugs are much more odius than improving the social order...that's something like the third layer of the propaganda onion, after 'saving lives', and 'preventing crime'....then there are the pharma/legal drug layers, govt corruption, black op funding, and the prison industrial complex layers....so entrenched, it's daunting as hell.
also it makes sense because last nov voters decided liquor is to be sold in retail outlets. so if this passes it means all these state liquor stores that are closing down this year can be converted into weed stores :thumbup:
heya there, hedo :wave:
angels share laughter
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And good work in your state, prism
How many fb friends ya got, Jason?
Thanks (and to you too, hedonist)...
Actually, I re-read my post and realized people could have interpreted it as me losing my gf and best friend three years apart...that's not the case; neither were in my day-to-day life when they died. I don't know why I had to clarify that, but it felt like I was making the loss more dramatic to further my position if I didn't :? They were both still obviously very special to me...The girl had moved to your city...she actually died the night before PJ's 98 concert there....I found out as I left my friends apt, on my way to the show....Should also say: she was no addict.
Glad to hear you're thinking - prob the best compliment a person can hope for on the train
That's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is going to be against and I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about.....noam chomsky
(speaking of 'support our troops', but it applies to every propaganda campaign)
Reefer Madness anyone?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0128930236
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
alot of ppl get how ridiculous all that is...yet there's a good % of ppl in the us that believe because pot is listed schedule 1 that it IS just as bad as heroin, lsd & other schedule 1 drugs. not realizing that the fed gov has a vested interest in it remaining that way and keeping the public ignorant of the facts on how harmless it is
so if voting to legalize pot in WA or any other state gets ppl that aren't aware to open thier eyes to the facts surrounding it, that's a step in the right direction...time for it happen somewhere, somehow
much like some have said when it comes to harder drugs i think they also should be legal...place all those resources in education based upon facts & treatment for addicts....so police, jails, prisons, & the courts are freed up to go after actual criminals that do harm others
angels share laughter
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We all have choices its the plan but so is caring enough for others.
Being the old lady I am I often think about the world after my exit,
when one sees mortality in years not decades it can change the perspective
one once had.
I think what's next...
legalized hunting of people perhaps :?
I mean that which is hunted still made the choice. For whatever reward.
Would a society say that too is ok?
allowing another human being to hunt down and kill another because
it is their choices.
Perhaps only the depraved society would allow this
That is exactly what pushers do, they hunt down our children and they kill them,
long before they have mature reason to make a life changing,
life losing decision.
Hold a person in your arms ravaged by these kinds of drugs, your mother, your father,
brother, sister, best friend... CHILD and you make a choice.
It would be my choice to try to save them and live in a society that would never condone
the use Crystal Meth.
you are making this very negative and about you :?
You know where I stand I know where you do
time will tell if you will ever change how you feel about this
if you will ever hold your child on the brink of death, bargaining the devil himself.
I know what brings me to where I am and I know I will never change my mind
so we will agree to disagree
Everything is possible, but there is still a risk to engage in illegal barter (especially w/ parties you are not familiar with), to possess illegal barter, and to work in an environment that you could be tested for consuming illegal barter.
I do think that the fight against weed is not logical nor effective. I think it would be wise if it was legalized so that resources could focus on stopping the hard drug market.
War is hunting people is it not?
I have three friends that were addicted to meth. It destroyed their lives and they all went and got treatment. Treatment essentially is the answer. It's not that hard of a task to get the drug and it's illegal. I certainly don't condone the use of it but humans have free will. Certainly we need restrictions but this war on drugs has not been a restriction that has benefited our society simply because it is not effective. I am all for teaching children about the dangers of these powerful and terrible substances but I ultimately think it is your decision about what you do with your own body whether that be doing drugs or getting an abortion. I I guess I personally have more faith in mankind to make the right decision about their own lives than many of us do.
Thank you for your response
PUCKER UP BABY, I NEED A KISS
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to legalize is to condone the use ...
this the message the society in place sends
like abortion, like capital punishment, when something is legal it says
society agrees with the practice/use of... like when marijuana is legalized
that is the society accepting the use of for it's intended purpose.
Because this war on drugs is less than efficient a society doesn't swing it to no war on drugs
it looks for ways to fix the problem ...this is common sense.
We can find many common sense answers to the problems we have
without condoning the use of hard drugs..
Just to help you understand though and with great respect for what you have experienced
a friend is nothing like a child... the realm of difference can be unimaginable until
you experience a lifetime with a child only to lose them to drugs.
The rush is like nothing else i have ever felt ...
forget everything i am not ... i am not not
i am i am i am ... now
i am beautiful i am powerful
funny intelligent
spiritual connected invincible
super sexy .. sex is unbelievable another level of existence
i get you ... where have you been all my life you are so part of me
this
this completes me
this is where i need to be
just a little more please lets do it again
its not the same i need a little more just a little more
more
more
don't tell me no
i'll kill you i'll kill you if you say no!
give me my money I hate you
i can't see myself i can't look in the mirror i can't feel anything
no pleasure no pain no shame no love
more please more and just let me die please
please ... just let me die
Paul McCartney quits smoking pot for daughter
Sir Paul McCartney has reportedly canned his cannabis habit to be a better parent.
The former Beatle, who has spoken openly in the past about experimenting with harder drugs including cocaine and heroin, told Rolling Stone magazine in a recent interview he stopped smoking marijuana for the sake of his eight-year-old daughter, Beatrice.
"I smoked my share. When you're bringing up a youngster, your sense of responsibility does kick in, if you're lucky, at some point," he told the magazine.
Beatrice is McCartney's daughter from his second marriage, with ex-wife Heather Mills. He has four other children.
McCartney, 69, is currently married to American trucking heiress Nancy Shevell.
The rock legend's appreciation for pot has been well known for decades.
In 1980, he was arrested in Tokyo and deported while on tour with his band Wings, after customs officers there found nearly half a pound of marijuana in his baggage.
Mills claimed McCartney would smoke joints as often as people would drink cups of tea during their divorce proceedings.
The new Rolling Stone interview shows an apparent change of heart.
"Enough's enough — you just don't seem to think it's necessary," he said.
he is proof that at the very least cannabis should be legal. every thing I've read, every documentary I've seen points to the fact that at the very least cannabis should probably be legalized. My guess is it's big pharma and the religious nut bars in politics keeping it illegal.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
you say it's benign (and i agree) yet that is not how society views it. i had three different school aged children (from elementary to middle school) all tell me they learned in school marijuana is the most dangerous drug there is and the worst drug you could ever do. my first reaction was wtf???? what about meth?? what about crack?? what about heroin?? "no, they said marijuana was the worst"
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
They're going to teach them that in the schools because in most cases the government sets the curriculum...and that's what the government wants to brain wash each generation into believing...from everything I've read and watched it might just be the most useful drug we can ingest.
I'm pretty sure big pharma has lined the pockets of politicians to keep it illegal...and that is so sad...we've had more drugstore robberies in the last 2-3 years just for oxycontin, which appears to be readily available from doctors these days and highly addictive.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/639 ... say-chiefs
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Is it society? ummm... why yes.
i've known of several doctors people went to to get all sorts of drugs, all they had to do was pay for the visit (and if you are a woman you have to be given a breast exam each time).....want xanax or valium? just say you have social anxiety. want oxycontin, vicodin or something similar? just sat say you get back aches.
let's not even get into pill farms.....
from 98-11 big pharma/health care products have spent $2,322,105,797 lobbying the us government, just in 2011 they spent $237,504,544, pfizer spent $12,440,000 themselves in 2011
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
and I you Pandi !
thank you !
Godfather.