Joe Paterno just died

chadwick

who understands this stuff?
Pandora, do you think you honestly understand this crap?

i do not understand it at all.
none of it.
zip, ziltch, zero...

however, i do understand that someone with huge power did basically nothing to stop a child predator
and perhaps, Sandusky, had/has many friends who also enjoy children on a sexual level.

EdsonNascimento

pandora wrote:

and of course you would and should go to the police I might think after
you went to your superiors too though ... a united front

would you think your superiors would cover it up then? :?

No.

But, then again, I would make sure it wouldn't matter. And I have less power than he had.

pandora

prism wrote:

exactly. where the hell was all of his broken-hearted remorse for his inactions before the story broke?

can't help but wonder what an insult it must be to those boys/men that survived the sexual abuse when facts are gloss over to exalt paterno as a hero and he's refered to as 'a victim.'

he (and others) failed their obligation to protect the kids but rather chose to protect the football program and his pedophile friend sandusky instead...so he's responsibile for his broken heart (as you put it.) you keep apologizing for his enabling the abuse...as if it's somehow excuseable because of the postion of power he was in :roll:

may be a cliche but this quote sums it up well;

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" -Edmund Burke

Again... geez...
not agreeing with his choices nor defending what he did not do
I am understanding the man and the mistakes ....
I believe he was a victim also and we can agree to disagree about Joe ...
it is obvious you feel he had no remorse and was an evil man

this I do not agree with.

I believe he wishes he would have done things very different ..
he regretted much and died a broken man.

Something not uncommon for many, unfortunately there are many who will leave
this world drenched in guilt.

pandora

EdsonNascimento wrote:

pandora wrote:

and of course you would and should go to the police I might think after
you went to your superiors too though ... a united front

would you think your superiors would cover it up then? :?

No.

But, then again, I would make sure it wouldn't matter. And I have less power than he had.

Well I guess that wont be one horrible mistake you won't make

Cosmo

chadwick wrote:

isn't there a whole fucking thing about bidders, some kinda auction or something? i know i read it on here somewhere, and something about a missing person later found murdered and a missing/found demolished computer/hard drive found in a river?

...
There were supposedly E-Bay auctions for seats to the Joe Paterno funeral... like, 3rd row seats (2), $500.00 ea. Heard it on the talk radio last night. Still, not verified.

chadwick

Cosmo wrote:

chadwick wrote:

isn't there a whole fucking thing about bidders, some kinda auction or something? i know i read it on here somewhere, and something about a missing person later found murdered and a missing/found demolished computer/hard drive found in a river?

...
There are E-Bay auctions for seats to the Joe Paterno funeral... like, 3rd row seats (2), $500.00 ea.
Sick.

i wouldn't attend his funeral if i were invited and paid well for my time. who actually sold these tickets to ol' joe's funeral?

pandora

chadwick wrote:

who understands this stuff?
Pandora, do you think you honestly understand this crap?

i do not understand it at all.
none of it.
zip, ziltch, zero...

however, i do understand that someone with huge power did basically nothing to stop a child predator
and perhaps, Sandusky, had/has many friends who also enjoy children on a sexual level.

I hope you are wrong about that Chadwick ...

I think if you were 85 living amongst this world you might have a bit more understanding
again no defense on my part just understanding of a man born in 1927

we've come a long way ...

but a woman can still get raped on the street with no help from passer-byes
and children can be abused by family members and they are never brought to justice....

we have a long way to go ... accountability and responsibility

prism

pandora wrote:

prism wrote:

exactly. where the hell was all of his broken-hearted remorse for his inactions before the story broke?

can't help but wonder what an insult it must be to those boys/men that survived the sexual abuse when facts are gloss over to exalt paterno as a hero and he's refered to as 'a victim.'

he (and others) failed their obligation to protect the kids but rather chose to protect the football program and his pedophile friend sandusky instead...so he's responsibile for his broken heart (as you put it.) you keep apologizing for his enabling the abuse...as if it's somehow excuseable because of the postion of power he was in :roll:

may be a cliche but this quote sums it up well;

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" -Edmund Burke

Again... geez...
not agreeing with his choices nor defending what he did not do
I am understanding the man and the mistakes ....
I believe he was a victim also and we can agree to disagree about Joe ...
it is obvious you feel he had no remorse and was an evil man

this I do not agree with.

I believe he wishes he would have done things very different ..
he regretted much and died a broken man.

Something not uncommon for many, unfortunately there are many who will leave
this world drenched in guilt.

please don't put words in my mouth, pandora. i never said paterno was evil. i said he was an enabler since he enabled a pedophile to continue raping children. it's clear that he didn't show remorse until after the story broke....which naturally makes one question if he was only sorry that his failure to report horrid crimes against children directly to police was exposed

chadwick

pandora wrote:

chadwick wrote:

who understands this stuff?
Pandora, do you think you honestly understand this crap?

i do not understand it at all.
none of it.
zip, ziltch, zero...

however, i do understand that someone with huge power did basically nothing to stop a child predator
and perhaps, Sandusky, had/has many friends who also enjoy children on a sexual level.

I hope you are wrong about that Chadwick ...

I think if you were 85 living amongst this world you might have a bit more understanding
again no defense on my part just understanding of a man born in 1927

we've come a long way ...

but a woman can still get raped on the street with no help from passer-byes
and children can be abused by family members and they are never brought to justice....

we have a long way to go ... accountability and responsibility

1927 had child predators. they were beat down and thrown in prison im sure. if he was 85 yrs @ death that means he first knew of Sandusky's ways 15-20 yrs ago or longer, i don't remember the time lines i have read about but i know they are old ones.

when did joe first get informed that Sandusky likes kids sexually? i have read it was quite a long while back.
so a 66 yr old dude with power can't kick the shit out of a pedophile?

Joe shoulda snatched that Sandusky guy up by his balls and slapped him around a bit and drug him to the cop shop. he woulda been hailed a super hero

chadwick

i am stickin to my guns. paterno quite possibly enjoyed children sexually as well as Sandusky had. to me this makes all the sense in the world. how else does a pedophile stay around even after banned from the school?
something very fishy here.

or
maybe paterno and countless others are all that naive?

pandora

chadwick wrote:

pandora wrote:

chadwick wrote:

who understands this stuff?
Pandora, do you think you honestly understand this crap?

i do not understand it at all.
none of it.
zip, ziltch, zero...

however, i do understand that someone with huge power did basically nothing to stop a child predator
and perhaps, Sandusky, had/has many friends who also enjoy children on a sexual level.

I hope you are wrong about that Chadwick ...

I think if you were 85 living amongst this world you might have a bit more understanding
again no defense on my part just understanding of a man born in 1927

we've come a long way ...

but a woman can still get raped on the street with no help from passer-byes
and children can be abused by family members and they are never brought to justice....

we have a long way to go ... accountability and responsibility

1927 had child predators. they were beat down and thrown in prison im sure. if he was 85 yrs @ death that means he first knew of Sandusky's ways 15-20 yrs ago or longer, i don't remember the time lines i have read about but i know they are old ones.

when did joe first get informed that Sandusky likes kids sexually? i have read it was quite a long while back.
so a 66 yr old dude with power can't kick the shit out of a pedophile?

Joe shoulda snatched that Sandusky guy up by his balls and slapped him around a bit and drug him to the cop shop. he woulda been hailed a super hero

I'm afraid that is not true about sexual abuse and child predators from his time
nor do we know his experience in life with such things, which can influence actions.
We only know he did not do the right thing here nor did many others and nor do many others
in similar situations.

In my opinion he left this world with much regret for his mistakes.

My focus is on the truly evil perpetrator who is still with us, the one who found
pleasure and satisfaction harming children, who was a junky to the power he had
over them, who was devious and purposeful and who defiled the word love.

Beating up a dead man for the mistakes he made seems pointless when the true
abuser is alive and well. Seems our energies could go towards making sure this
guy never sees the light of day let alone a child again.

chadwick

pandora wrote:

chadwick wrote:

[1927 had child predators. they were beat down and thrown in prison im sure. if he was 85 yrs @ death that means he first knew of Sandusky's ways 15-20 yrs ago or longer, i don't remember the time lines i have read about but i know they are old ones.

when did joe first get informed that Sandusky likes kids sexually? i have read it was quite a long while back.
so a 66 yr old dude with power can't kick the shit out of a pedophile?

Joe shoulda snatched that Sandusky guy up by his balls and slapped him around a bit and drug him to the cop shop. he woulda been hailed a super hero

I'm afraid that is not true about sexual abuse and child predators from his time
nor do we know his experience in life with such things, which can influence actions.
We only know he did not do the right thing here nor did many others and nor do many others
in similar situations.

In my opinion he left this world with much regret for his mistakes.

My focus is on the truly evil perpetrator who is still with us, the one who found
pleasure and satisfaction harming children, who was a junky to the power he had
over them, who was devious and purposeful and who defiled the word love.

Beating up a dead man for the mistakes he made seems pointless when the true
abuser is alive and well. Seems our energies could go towards making sure this
guy never sees the light of day let alone a child again.

so then maybe you can tell us what happened to child molesters in 1927ish, the year or roundabouts when ol' joe numbnuts was born. so the men & women of the 20's, 30's and 40's did nothing to pedophiles? you're telling me and everyone here that until recent years child molestation was virtually a unpunishable crime? so ol' joe basically knew no different? this your knowledge on the man and the era he was born into?

pandora

chadwick wrote:

pandora wrote:

chadwick wrote:

[1927 had child predators. they were beat down and thrown in prison im sure. if he was 85 yrs @ death that means he first knew of Sandusky's ways 15-20 yrs ago or longer, i don't remember the time lines i have read about but i know they are old ones.

when did joe first get informed that Sandusky likes kids sexually? i have read it was quite a long while back.
so a 66 yr old dude with power can't kick the shit out of a pedophile?

Joe shoulda snatched that Sandusky guy up by his balls and slapped him around a bit and drug him to the cop shop. he woulda been hailed a super hero

I'm afraid that is not true about sexual abuse and child predators from his time
nor do we know his experience in life with such things, which can influence actions.
We only know he did not do the right thing here nor did many others and nor do many others
in similar situations.

In my opinion he left this world with much regret for his mistakes.

My focus is on the truly evil perpetrator who is still with us, the one who found
pleasure and satisfaction harming children, who was a junky to the power he had
over them, who was devious and purposeful and who defiled the word love.

Beating up a dead man for the mistakes he made seems pointless when the true
abuser is alive and well. Seems our energies could go towards making sure this
guy never sees the light of day let alone a child again.

so then maybe you can tell us what happened to child molesters in 1927ish, the year or roundabouts when ol' joe numbnuts was born. so the men & women of the 20's, 30's and 40's did nothing to pedophiles? you're telling me and everyone here that until recent years child molestation was virtually a unpunishable crime? so ol' joe basically knew no different? this your knowledge on the man and the era he was born into?

I can only speak from my experience Chad ...
child sexual abuse was covered up, was not punished as we find in our current society
nor spoke of openly, this even in my early childhood days ...
this my experience.
And we can see even the term 'Elders' has an entirely different meaning
today then 80 years ago.

As far as Joe we have no idea his life experience, directly relevant ...
others were taught it was a secret, never to be told, this what I meant about his life experiences.
This will definitely affect ones good judgement, common sense, level of fear and shame,
and even trauma that has been buried a lifetime.

One thing I do know is a person who is 85 has a much different perspective on many things.

This thread reminds me of the vultures after a kill ...
the anger should be directed in full force at the truly evil man involved
this is not Joe Paterno.... in my opinion

EdsonNascimento

pandora wrote:

Beating up a dead man for the mistakes he made seems pointless when the true
abuser is alive and well. Seems our energies could go towards making sure this
guy never sees the light of day let alone a child again.

Both are 100% correct. Sandusky is still the perpetrator and should be brought to justice.

If folks stopped glorifying Paterno, I think this discussion about him would die with it. That's the crux of the issue. I have no problem letting sleeping dogs lie. But, then his apologists have to let go, also. As long as they celebrate his "achievements," we will be here to ground them in reality.

EdsonNascimento

pandora wrote:

This thread reminds me of the vultures after a kill ...
the anger should be directed in full force at the truly evil man involved
this is not Joe Paterno.... in my opinion

Again, nice piece of poetry. But, it is completely different. They are both truly evil men in their own ways. That's the point you keep missing. He's dead, so we should ignore his major part in all this? That's silly.

pandora

EdsonNascimento wrote:

pandora wrote:

Beating up a dead man for the mistakes he made seems pointless when the true
abuser is alive and well. Seems our energies could go towards making sure this
guy never sees the light of day let alone a child again.

Both are 100% correct. Sandusky is still the perpetrator and should be brought to justice.

If folks stopped glorifying Paterno, I think this discussion about him would die with it. That's the crux of the issue. I have no problem letting sleeping dogs lie. But, then his apologists have to let go, also. As long as they celebrate his "achievements," we will be here to ground them in reality.

He had achievements ... a life full,
he made mistakes, as we all do. Mistakes do not erase achievements
we take both to the grave... it is our life our path

But the discussion should die a quick death
because all can agree to disagree about the man and his mistakes

EdsonNascimento

pandora wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

pandora wrote:

Beating up a dead man for the mistakes he made seems pointless when the true
abuser is alive and well. Seems our energies could go towards making sure this
guy never sees the light of day let alone a child again.

Both are 100% correct. Sandusky is still the perpetrator and should be brought to justice.

If folks stopped glorifying Paterno, I think this discussion about him would die with it. That's the crux of the issue. I have no problem letting sleeping dogs lie. But, then his apologists have to let go, also. As long as they celebrate his "achievements," we will be here to ground them in reality.

He had achievements ... a life full,
he made mistakes, as we all do. Mistakes do not erase achievements
we take both to the grave... it is our life our path

But the discussion should die a quick death
because all can agree to disagree about the man and his mistakes

Sorry. This was not a mistake. The complete lack of humanity does in fact erase any legacy he may have had.

Should we give Hitler credit for getting the trains to run on time? (not that this rises quite to that level, but the analogy is stil apt).

pandora

EdsonNascimento wrote:

pandora wrote:

He had achievements ... a life full,
he made mistakes, as we all do. Mistakes do not erase achievements
we take both to the grave... it is our life our path

But the discussion should die a quick death
because all can agree to disagree about the man and his mistakes

Sorry. This was not a mistake. The complete lack of humanity does in fact erase any legacy he may have had.

One might say the same about your stance here...

EdsonNascimento

pandora wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

pandora wrote:

He had achievements ... a life full,
he made mistakes, as we all do. Mistakes do not erase achievements
we take both to the grave... it is our life our path

But the discussion should die a quick death
because all can agree to disagree about the man and his mistakes

Sorry. This was not a mistake. The complete lack of humanity does in fact erase any legacy he may have had.

One might say the same about your stance here...

Sure. Go ahead. That's fine.

I do feel compassion because a person has died. But, I do not feel he should be glorified in any way, shape or form. If that's my biggest lack of humanity, then I'm good. Thanks.

chadwick

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Both are 100% correct. Sandusky is still the perpetrator and should be brought to justice.

If folks stopped glorifying Paterno, I think this discussion about him would die with it. That's the crux of the issue. I have no problem letting sleeping dogs lie. But, then his apologists have to let go, also. As long as they celebrate his "achievements," we will be here to ground them in reality.

this...and thank you.

paterno a hero, paterno a victim, paterno greatness, penn state glorious football program, paterno largest nuts in the football stadium, blah blah blah.... horse shit.

paterno cowardly stood nearby whilst children of less than fortunate upbringings were molested and molested and molested...in showers, in lockerrooms, at Sandusky's house, at the gym, at the training weight lifting wrestling areas, who knows where else?