Joe Paterno just died

juan lester

Great Man Mike Krzyzewski Defends Great Man Joe Paterno

Great men must stick together. Their greatness unites them—especially if, like Mike Krzyzewski and Joe Paterno, they've recorded a 90-minute nationally broadcast television special celebrating their mutual greatness.
The hour and a half long TV special is essential to the bond between great men and their greatness; it is the adult version of being blood brothers. Krzyzewski and Paterno made that pact this past June, in an ESPN segment with Rece Davis called Difference Makers: Life Lessons with Paterno and Krzyzewski. They sat in easy chairs in Penn State's Eisenhower Auditorium and discussed their greatness together. Sometimes, Davis discussed their greatness for them; other times, emotional montages and taped interviews with members of their families discussed it for them. At the end, people in the audience had the opportunity to stand and ask further questions about what made these two men so great.

USA Today reported at the time that the program focused on "the similarities between Krzyzewski and Paterno, and how the coaches have built clean, model programs in their respective sports." We reported at the time that Paterno had said "other times you gotta stroke 'em," completely out of context.

The general point of the show was that the men were great. It also, according to ESPN's release at the time, intended to explore "ethics, integrity, friendship, legacy, pressures and issues associated with intercollegiate athletics, working with student-athletes, and more." The ethics, issues, and pressures under discussion did not include those surrounding child rape.

But that's something we can't ignore today, and neither can Krzyzewski. So on Monday he was asked about Paterno's dismissal and the scandal unfolding in State College. He responded:

"Well, I think, unless you're there, it's tough to comment about everything,'' Krzyzewski said. "I just feel badly for him and whatever he is responsible for, it'll come out and hopefully it'll come out from him.

"I think one thing you have to understand is that Coach Paterno's 84 years old. I'm not saying that for an excuse or whatever. The cultures that he's been involved in both football-wise and socially, have been immense changes and how social issues are handled in those generations are quite different.

"But as we judge, remember that there's just a lot there. There's a lot, lot there. I think he's a great man and it's a horrific situation."

To boil it down: When great men get old, the culture around them changes, and that can create horrific situations for the great men in question. Old great men are not as responsible for their "ethics and integrity" as younger great men. So take heed, young great men of the world, of these "horrific situations," as you age. They tend to threaten greatness.

MookiesLaw

Headstone:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Here lies Joe Paterno, a manifestation of the pitiful American culture of idolizing sports heroes as though they are gods. A man that could do no wrong, until the truth was reveled and he was found wanting. Guilty, of allowing young men to be sexually brutalized. On behalf of the abused, good riddance Joe.

RW81233

his "mistake" went on for a LONG time...plus let's not forget his support of the openly homophobic women's basketball coach. did he do good things? yes. did he perpetuate hatred and evil on the state's dime? yes. you can't tell people what and how to remember things about him.

cincybearcat

jdpancoast wrote:

I mean you are joking right? He let kids get molested. I don't care how many games he won. I don't care how many dollars he gave to Penn State. I don't care how many football players say he was a great man to them. HE LET KIDS GET RAPED IN THE SHOWERS OF HIS OWN ATHLETIC BUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How so? This is bullshit. People are so willing to hold to there to a standard they aren't willing to live up to themselves. Fuck the media, they killed joepa.

cincybearcat

Jeanwah wrote:

So. Those who honor thy gospel according to football, honor Paterno on this day, RIP.

However, those who honor honesty and ethics, well, they're not honoring Paterno.

I will never understand how much of a religion sports is to people over how we should treat each other, especially children.

Here we go, man this place is great to rememberwh people suck. Get up on that high horse.

RW81233

cincybearcat wrote:

jdpancoast wrote:

I mean you are joking right? He let kids get molested. I don't care how many games he won. I don't care how many dollars he gave to Penn State. I don't care how many football players say he was a great man to them. HE LET KIDS GET RAPED IN THE SHOWERS OF HIS OWN ATHLETIC BUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How so? This is bullshit. People are so willing to hold to there to a standard they aren't willing to live up to themselves. Fuck the media, they killed joepa.

The Media killed JoePa? That's about as accurate as Joe Pa actively assaulted those kids. He let unspeakable evil continue on for nearly a decade. What of those kids education? future? What about the fact that many who are sexually assaulted do the same themselves? He was an ardent homophobe who publicly supported one as she kicked a homosexual student-athlete off her team. What of her education? Future? You're defending the undefendable here. You may choose to remember the good things, but seriously you cannot get mad at people who choose not to.

Jason P

RW81233 wrote:

The Media killed JoePa?

Not just the media, the negative energy of an entire nation wore down and killed a man that we technically don't know how much he really knew. He was sentenced to death by public opinion.

It's easy to cast stones from Mt. Pious, but how often do we each look the other way when a friend or loved one commits crimes? Ever had a drunk friend leave a party and drive home without stopping him or calling the cops? Every had a relative disciplined their kids or spouse in a way that would technically fall under abuse and say nothing? Ever hear a story second-hand and not being able to believe it ... even too scared to pursue it and lock it away in the back of your mind?

We wanted blood. Paterno is the face of the university, so he is who we went after. I'd say 70% of us are reveling in his death. To me, it's the ultimate Greek tragedy. I feel no sorrow nor happiness in his passing, but dismay in how one bad decision can ultimately offset a lifetime of accomplishment.

RW81233

Jason P wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

The Media killed JoePa?

Not just the media, the negative energy of an entire nation wore down and killed a man that we technically don't know how much he really knew. He was sentenced to death by public opinion.

It's easy to cast stones from Mt. Pious, but how often do we each look the other way when a friend or loved one commits crimes? Ever had a drunk friend leave a party and drive home without stopping him or calling the cops? Every had a relative disciplined their kids or spouse in a way that would technically fall under abuse and say nothing? Ever hear a story second-hand and not being able to believe it ... even too scared to pursue it and lock it away in the back of your mind?

We wanted blood. Paterno is the face of the university, so he is who we went after. I'd say 70% of us are reveling in his death. To me, it's the ultimate Greek tragedy. I feel no sorrow nor happiness in his passing, but dismay in how one bad decision can ultimately offset a lifetime of accomplishment.

Before going on I want to say that I, too, am fairly ambivalent about his death. I'm kind of wrestling with how to think of it, and respect the various ways people on here are responding to his passing. However, to compare a singular DUI incident, or spanking, or verbal abuse by a friend toward a spouse whereby you are both on the same level in terms of social power to a man who is being revered as a beacon of good, and "the face of the University" is apples and oranges. Plus he let the dude on the sidelines with children for a full decade afterward. This was a single "mistake" followed by a decade of delusion.

I guess if Joe Pa was truly a humanitarian educator he'd like us to learn from his death...learn to be involved with your school or place of employment and the people therein (as in his connection to PSU, its library, and its community), learn not to be silent when you see/hear of something morally and/or ethically reprehensible (as in when a subservient worker comes to you and tells you that he saw your friend rape a child or something to that effect), and learn to be respectful of newer ways of thinking and being as you grow old (as in not supporting co-workers stunted stance(s) against homosexuals).

RW81233

Interesting read:

http://www.edgeofsports.com/2012-01-22-687/index.html

Joe Paterno's most fervent supporters always described "JoePa" as more of an educator than a football coach. The Brown University graduate with the English Literature major, it was said, always wanted to make people around him think and learn. Now, following his passing at the age of 85, the all-time winningest coach in Division 1 college football history has given us another puzzle to ponder: when assessing a legacy, how much should one scandal be weighed alongside decades of service? Should a single moral failure, no matter how vast, be enough to actually undo the decades of good works that preceded it? The lives touched? The scholarships funded? The community constructed?

In Paterno's case, he became victim of his own nurtured legend. He was felled by our perception of who he was, which we all believed would be a predictor of his actions when faced with difficult choices. This was more than a coach. This was a campus Sun King who never complained about the feel of the crown. The statues of Paterno on the Happy Valley campus, the academic courses that bear his name, even the Peachy Paterno ice cream for sale at the campus creamery, elevated Paterno beyond tangible comprehension.

Yet the legend wasn't built just around wins or championships. The reverence many Penn State alums hold for the man was less about unbeaten seasons, the record 36 bowl appearances, or showers of confetti. It was about a standard of morality and ethics that became inseparable from the Nittany Lion brand. As writer Aurin Squire wrote, "When Penn State won the NCAA championship in 1987, it was seen as a victory for the Constitution, flag pins, and whole milk."

This is what made last fall's grand jury report accusing revered longtime assistant coach Jerry Sandusky of being a serial child rapist so devastating to Paterno's entire legacy. JoePa, upon hearing from grad assistant Mike McQueary that he witnessed Sandusky committing statutory rape in the showers, did everything required of him by law. He informed those above him, telling the head of campus police and the School President, both of whom are now out of work and under indictment. That was the minimum he had to do and the minimum is what he did. But according to our conception of who this man was supposed to be, there was no authority above Joe Paterno. There was instead an expectation that this man of integrity would without hesitation do far more than just fulfill his minimum legal requirements. Is that fair? When it's your statue on campus and when the buildings bear your name, most would say hell yes.

When it was further demonstrated that Sandusky continued to be a presence on campus, in the locker room and even on Joe Paterno’s sideline with young children by his side, damning questions rose to a din: how could JoePa have been content with silence, given the possibility that children continued to be at risk? Did Joe Paterno, and the campus leadership, care more about their brand than anything that resembled human morality? Was a football program that had become the economic, social, and cultural center of an entire region, more important than all other concerns? Had abused children become, in the view of Penn State's leadership, an unfortunate collateral damage necessary to keeping the cash registers ringing? The conclusions most people drew were not kind.



In the end, after decades of service, Penn State fired Paterno with a cold 10pm phone call, causing a low frequency campus riot. Since then, Penn State's leadership has gone out of their way to protect "The Nittany Lion brand" (their words.) Joe Paterno was in the end far less important than what Joe Paterno had built. In the end, it was just business.

Before his death, Paterno gave one last interview with the Washington Post's Sally Jenkins. Paterno defended himself by saying he was confused because he'd "never heard of rape and a man." For a man who always took pride in his own academic worldiness and erudition apart from football, this, to be kind, strained credulity. Paterno in his last days was sounding like yet another fallible person in power, corrupted by their deification. We've seen this character throughout American history. It was thought that Paterno had more character than to be just another character.

Let Paterno's last teachable moment be this: if your football coach is the highest paid, most revered person on your campus, you have a problem. If your school wins multiple championships, and a booster drops money to build a statue of the coach, tear it the hell down. And if you think children are being raped, the minimum just isn't good enough, no matter whether or not you wear a crown.

shadowcast

I hate how people are choosing football over raping little boys. I don't care what Joe did in the past it all gets wiped clean by what he didn't do. Just deal with the fact that Penn State will be tarnished for a very long time all you Penn State Alum.

Sandusky was still allowed on the university campus years after this is all reported. He was also in the presidential box for the game that made Joe the winningest coach in history. How could they look at Sandusky for all those years after what was reported?

FiveB247x

I heard this the other day and felt it hit the nail on the head:

"I won't remember Joe Paterno for football or all the things he did, but instead for the thing he didn't do".

UpSideDown

Wow this thread is just full of assumptions.............

shadowcast

UpSideDown wrote:

Wow this thread is just full of assumptions.............

uh not really...have you read the grand jury report?

RW81233

Assumptions about what?

UpSideDown

shadowcast wrote:

UpSideDown wrote:

Wow this thread is just full of assumptions.............

uh not really...have you read the grand jury report?

No, I haven't read the report. My base understanding was that Paterno was told from a secondary source of what was happening, and that he reported it to his superiors the next day. Is this accurate?

If so, I don't understand how people would make the leap from the above to "HE LET KIDS GET RAPED IN THE SHOWERS OF HIS OWN ATHLETIC BUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (as pulled from the first page of this thread).

It would seem to become a judgement call between employee/employer relations and criminal law after that.

Could he have done more? Probably. Should this action override everything else he has done? I don't know for sure, but seems like everybody else is convinced.

RW81233

There's that level of it but then to let the guy stay involved with the team, stay on the sideline, etc? Not good. Plus I just add this stuff to his support of the women's bball coach which is something just seemed to forget magically.

shadowcast

UpSideDown wrote:

shadowcast wrote:

UpSideDown wrote:

Wow this thread is just full of assumptions.............

uh not really...have you read the grand jury report?

No, I haven't read the report. My base understanding was that Paterno was told from a secondary source of what was happening, and that he reported it to his superiors the next day. Is this accurate?

If so, I don't understand how people would make the leap from the above to "HE LET KIDS GET RAPED IN THE SHOWERS OF HIS OWN ATHLETIC BUILDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (as pulled from the first page of this thread).

It would seem to become a judgement call between employee/employer relations and criminal law after that.

Could he have done more? Probably. Should this action override everything else he has done? I don't know for sure, but seems like everybody else is convinced.

Well who knows how many more kids got raped in the showers after Joe knew of what happened and didn't report it or follow up on it or questions why is this guy still around on the campus after what was reported.

JD29648

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even flow - question mark

I was in a bar when the news of the children in the shower thing came out and some random dude who needed to give me two cents of what he thought about the situation and then made the mistake of asking me. So here is my two cents. I looked at the guy and said "you ever been to a bar with any of your friends who are involved (ie:married, serious, etc) and watched them pick up another woman and not report it to their better half?" Well we all know what that answer was. He piped up with the kids are different, blah, blah, blah. But I don't think so. Turning the blind eye, is turning the blind eye. Period.

Other then that little problem the man had. He ran a super football program.

shadowcast

even flow - question mark wrote:

I was in a bar when the news of the children in the shower thing came out and some random dude who needed to give me two cents of what he thought about the situation and then made the mistake of asking me. So here is my two cents. I looked at the guy and said "you ever been to a bar with any of your friends who are involved (ie:married, serious, etc) and watched them pick up another woman and not report it to their better half?" Well we all know what that answer was. He piped up with the kids are different, blah, blah, blah. But I don't think so. Turning the blind eye, is turning the blind eye. Period.

Other then that little problem the man had. He ran a super football program.

Really? Turning a blind eye to your friend cheating on his wife is the same as turning a blind eye to raping kids?