Has This Train Derailed?
Byrnzie
Posts: 21,037
At the risk of sounding pompous and/or sanctimonious, what the fuck is going on here lately? The Train has sunk to it's lowest point in the past five years, in my opinion.
Racists, trolls, self-proclaimed friends of 'God' himself, bigots....
I created a thread on a recent article of Chomsky's discussing racism in the present day, and the thread descended into a racist tirade against Africans, and personal attacks on other posters. The thread was then locked.
I've had a few pm's over the past 24 hours praising my comments in a thread saying how this place has become filled with bullshit.
Is this place really representative of Pearl Jam anymore? I could be wrong, but doesn't this band represent intelligence, imagination, conscientious activism, (I hesitate to say 'left-wing' because that term doesn't really mean anything to me) - feel free to add your own adjectives.....
There have always been people of all different persuasions - political or otherwise - on here locking horns, and generally stating their points of view, but lately this place seems to have been overrun by some pretty shitty characters. What the fuck is going on? Is this indicative of the U.S in general?
I just don't get it. How does this band attract racists, or bigots? Do people not listen to their lyrics, or listen to Ed speak between songs, or pay any attention to their activism outside of the band? What would cause someone who says 'I love the death penalty' to follow this band? It would be like me deciding to become a fan of Ted Nugent, or Mick Hucknall. I would need a fucking lobotomy first.
And, yeah, I know I'm not perfect. I know I really shouldn't post pictures of mutant Ninja turtle armchair warriors, and Yoda. But really, I used to come here knowing that on any given day I could find an engaging topic, discussion, debate, news item, e.t.c. But now it's just gotten to resemble a school playground with shit-slinging and ignorance being the norm.
Answers on a postcard please...
Racists, trolls, self-proclaimed friends of 'God' himself, bigots....
I created a thread on a recent article of Chomsky's discussing racism in the present day, and the thread descended into a racist tirade against Africans, and personal attacks on other posters. The thread was then locked.
I've had a few pm's over the past 24 hours praising my comments in a thread saying how this place has become filled with bullshit.
Is this place really representative of Pearl Jam anymore? I could be wrong, but doesn't this band represent intelligence, imagination, conscientious activism, (I hesitate to say 'left-wing' because that term doesn't really mean anything to me) - feel free to add your own adjectives.....
There have always been people of all different persuasions - political or otherwise - on here locking horns, and generally stating their points of view, but lately this place seems to have been overrun by some pretty shitty characters. What the fuck is going on? Is this indicative of the U.S in general?
I just don't get it. How does this band attract racists, or bigots? Do people not listen to their lyrics, or listen to Ed speak between songs, or pay any attention to their activism outside of the band? What would cause someone who says 'I love the death penalty' to follow this band? It would be like me deciding to become a fan of Ted Nugent, or Mick Hucknall. I would need a fucking lobotomy first.
And, yeah, I know I'm not perfect. I know I really shouldn't post pictures of mutant Ninja turtle armchair warriors, and Yoda. But really, I used to come here knowing that on any given day I could find an engaging topic, discussion, debate, news item, e.t.c. But now it's just gotten to resemble a school playground with shit-slinging and ignorance being the norm.
Answers on a postcard please...
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
... someone on another forum said he didnt listen to ACDC cause bogans do.... insinuating that everyone who listened to ACDC is a bogan.. we all know thats far from the truth but it didnt stop that poster drawing generalisations. this is just how the world is steve.. full of light and dark, ignorant and enlightened(whatever the hell that means) should we as people be better than this? maybe/maybe not? not we be better than this cause we all have a common interest in pearl jam? again maybe /maybe not. not everyone who was a fan of RATM was as vehement as the members of that band when it came to human rights and respect etc,.. some fans just liked the music(believe it or not)... so what makes you think fans of pearl jam should be?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And really no offense but anytime anyone disagrees with you, well you are usually less than accepting of a differing opinion.
RON PAUL 2012
Never recovered, imho.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
maybe not all people are engaged in the lyrical side of music, but I am, and if I don't agree with what a band is saying, then I won't listen to them (if I've paid that close attention, that is). But of course, not everyone is like that. some care more about the riff, the soloist/facemelter, etc. not more right/wrong, but not everyone cares about a band's stance on issues. and I don't always either, but if a band is singing about hookers and blow, then it's likely I won't listen to them. again, no slight on anyone who likes bands who sing about that stuff. just personal preference.
I think some people look to this band as some sort of intelligence/socially educated high ground; that if you listen to them, you must have an informed opinion. recent posts show anything but.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
just admit you're talking about Nickleback, dude.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
so admitted.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Maybe because I'm not particularly interested in opinions. I prefer to deal in facts, not opinions.
If all someone brings to the table is an opinion - especially with regard to politics or U.S or British foreign policy e.t.c. - that can't be supported by any facts, then, yeah, I'll more than likely rubbish it.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RO93OS0Sk
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp_c8-CfZtg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit
On Bullshit is an essay by philosopher Harry Frankfurt. Originally published in the journal Raritan in 1986, the essay was republished as a separate volume in 2005 and became a nonfiction bestseller, spending twenty-seven weeks on the New York Times Best Seller list.[1]
In the essay, Frankfurt defines a theory of bullshit, defining the concept and analyzing its applications. Bullshit can either be true or false but bullshitters aim primarily to impress and persuade their audiences, and in general are unconcerned with the truth or falsehood of their statements (it is because of this that Frankfurt concedes that "the bullshitter is faking things", but that "this does not necessarily mean he gets them wrong"). While liars need to know the truth to better conceal it, bullshitters, interested solely in advancing their own agendas, have no use for the truth. Thus, Frankfurt claims, "...bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are" (Frankfurt 61).
This work laid the foundation for Frankfurt's 2006 follow-up book, On Truth.
True. And Reagan using Springsteen's 'Born in The U.S.A' for his campaign was perhaps the most glaring example of a song being mis-appropriated by a bunch of people who had no idea what the song was about.
Not sure why Springsteen allowed that song to be used by those Jackasses? Anyone know?
Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_in_the_U.S.A.
Certainly, the song was misinterpreted by many as a patriotic anthem. American conservative columnist George Will, after attending a show, wrote in September 1984 that Springsteen was an exemplar of classic American values. He wrote: "I have not got a clue about Springsteen's politics, if any, but flags get waved at his concerts while he sings songs about hard times. He is no whiner, and the recitation of closed factories and other problems always seems punctuated by a grand, cheerful affirmation: 'Born in the U.S.A.!'"[10]
The 1984 presidential campaign was in full stride at the time, and Will had connections to President Reagan's re-election organization. Will thought that Springsteen might endorse Reagan, and got the notion pushed up to high-level Reagan advisor Michael Deaver's office. Those staffers made inquiries to Springsteen's management which were politely rebuffed. Nevertheless, on September 19, 1984, at a campaign stop in Hammonton, New Jersey, Reagan added the following to his usual stump speech:
"America's future rests in a thousand dreams inside your hearts; it rests in the message of hope in songs so many young Americans admire: New Jersey's own Bruce Springsteen. And helping you make those dreams come true is what this job of mine is all about."
The campaign press immediately expressed skepticism that Reagan knew anything about Springsteen, and asked what his favorite Springsteen song was; "Born to Run" was the tardy response from staffers. Johnny Carson then joked on The Tonight Show, "If you believe that, I've got a couple of tickets to the Mondale-Ferraro inaugural ball I'd like to sell you."
Years later Rolling Stone analyzed the situation stating that "clearly, to anybody paying attention, the hard-bitten vision of America that Springsteen sang of in '"Born in the U.S.A." was a far cry from the much-touted "new patriotism" of Reagan and many of his fellow conservatives. And yet there was also something damnably brilliant in the way the president sought to attach his purpose to Springsteen's views. It was the art of political syllogism, taken to its most arrogant extreme. Reagan saw himself as a definitional emblem of America; Bruce Springsteen was a singer who, apparently, extolled America in his work; therefore, Springsteen must be exalting Reagan — which would imply that if one valued the music of Springsteen, then one should value (and support) Reagan as well. Reagan was manipulating Springsteen's fame as an affirmation of his own ends."
During a September 21 concert in Pittsburgh, Springsteen responded negatively by introducing his song "Johnny 99", a song about an unemployed auto worker who turns to murder, "The President was mentioning my name the other day, and I kinda got to wondering what his favorite album musta been. I don't think it was the Nebraska album. I don't think he's been listening to this one." A few days after that, presidential challenger Walter Mondale said, "Bruce Springsteen may have been born to run but he wasn't born yesterday," and then claimed to have been endorsed by Springsteen. Springsteen manager Jon Landau denied any such endorsement, and the Mondale campaign issued a correction.
Other songs of the album also found political issues. In 2004, Senator John Kerry used "No Surrender" as his campaign theme song during his 2004 presidential campaign. Springsteen performed the song at several Kerry rallies during the campaign.
perhaps so.. but in the end theyre just a rock band. i would say thousands and thousands of pearl jam couldnt give a toss about their 'extra curricular' activities and causes... and thats ok. some people just want an escape and pearl jam, like so many other bands, provide that. on the other hand thousands of people have been turned onto to causes by the band.. and the rest were already aware... its all ok. but to think because we all listen to pearl jam we all share the same opinions, awareness and/or desire to become aware is in my view shortsighted. and even perhaps a little naive.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
But it didn't take long for me to feel like I was walking into nebulous territory. The train seems to get bogged down in a lot of personal conflict that doesn't really relate to the issues being discussed.
Personally I find the idea of this place irresistible on the one hand but all too often the reality of it seems rather annoying. But I must say this- in my community (in the physical world that is)- I don't get enough opportunity to discuss current events (what is it Lou Reed said about living in a small town?!) so I keep coming back with the hope of learning something useful and maybe passing something along myself.
Someone here made a remark about societal intelligence as a whole degenerating. I don't see how that can be argued against- it seems all too true. But then I've been accused of thinking I'm smarter than everyone else. They say we use only 10% of our brains. Well here's the secret, folks. Be like Nigel: take it to eleven.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Check this out if you believe that Western governments have no influence on the poverty of modern day Africa (like this should even need to be stated on a forum populated by adults, as opposed to a forum populated by 5 year olds): The Great African Scandal: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6045228473
Though of course it's easier just to resort to lazy racist stereotypes and laugh about Africans living in mud nests, how they are inferior to Americans, who managed to put a man on the moon after just '200 years', e.t.c - I think someone needs to go back to history class if they think America is just 200 years old.
Anyway, just a small minority of Africans live in mud huts. Many nomadic and hunter-gathering peoples choose to live in mud huts because it's their traditional lifestyle.
Though clearly MaydayMalone knows absolutely nothing about Africa, it's history, and the diversity of it's peoples.
Anyway, I don't think racist bullshit like that expressed in the other closed thread should go unanswered, so at the risk of bursting anyone's blinkered, prejudiced bubble, read on...
http://www.economist.com/node/21541015
Africa rising
After decades of slow growth, Africa has a real chance to follow in the footsteps of Asia
Dec 3rd 2011
'...Over the past decade six of the world’s ten fastest-growing countries were African. In eight of the past ten years, Africa has grown faster than East Asia, including Japan. Even allowing for the knock-on effect of the northern hemisphere’s slowdown, the IMF expects Africa to grow by 6% this year and nearly 6% in 2012, about the same as Asia...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/ap ... NTCMP=SRCH
Africa's burgeoning middle class brings hope to a continent
A new financial assertiveness and cultural self-confidence is growing, fuelled by technology
David Smith in Kinshasa and Johannesburg, Lucy Lamble in Tunis
Guardian.co.uk, Sunday 25 December 2011
'...Africa's middle class is a reality and widening by the day. It is a trend marked by changing lifestyles, greater spending power, more recreational time, the harnessing of technology and a new political assertiveness and cultural self-confidence.
The African Development Bank (AfDB) says Africa's middle class had risen to 313 million people in 2010, 34% of the continent's population – compared with 111 million (26%) in 1980, 151 million (27%) in 1990 and 196 million (27%) in 2000.
The bank's report defined middle class as people who spend the equivalent of $2-$20 (£1.30-£13) a day, saying this is appropriate given the cost of living for Africa's near 1 billion people. It acknowledged that many living on $2-$4 a day are "floating" and could easily slip back into poverty. Taking these people out of the equation, it put the stable middle class at 123 million, 13% of the population. But AfDB is bullish about the future, predicting the African middle class will grow to 1.1 billion (42%) in 2060. By then, those living below the poverty line will be in the minority (33%). Mthuli Ncube, the bank's chief economist, describes the trajectory as "unstoppable".
Others, such as the OECD and World Bank are less confident, yet a body of research is starting to build an alternative narrative about Africa. The Economist magazine, which in 2000 ran a cover story headlined "The hopeless continent", has just performed a U-turn with "The hopeful continent".
While the headlines in 2011 were grabbed by revolution in north Africa and famine in Somalia, the underlying mantra of the past decade has been growth, growth, growth.
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) expects Africa to have grown by 6% this year and grow by nearly 6% in 2012, roughly the same as Asia and in stark contrast to the eurozone. Over the past decade, six of the world's 10 fastest-growing countries were African. And in eight of the past 10 years, the African lions have grown faster than the Asian tigers.
One of the most striking examples is Nigeria, where GDP rose five-fold from $46bn (£29bn) in 2000 to $24bn (£158bn) in 2011, according to the IMF. A survey by Renaissance Capital found that nearly half of the country's middle class (defined as an average monthly income of $500-$600) were planning to buy fridges, freezers and other white goods, "suggesting a consumer boom is under way".
Africa has a young, fast-growing, fast-urbanising population. Many countries have benefited from a commodities boom and a 10-fold rise in foreign investment in the past decade, notably from China. Africa's productivity is growing by nearly 3% a year, compared with 2.3% in the United States. Arguably, governance is improving, elections spreading and dictatorships and wars declining.
Perhaps the most tangible catalyst is technology. The mobile phone is fast becoming as much an African symbol as the leopard or baobab tree.
A Gallup poll this year found they are owned by 71% of adults in Nigeria, 62% in Botswana and more than half the populations of Ghana and Kenya. The continent is the world's fastest-growing mobile phone market, according to the industry group Groupe Spéciale Mobile Association – Africa's 600m users make it second only to Asia. Subscriber levels have grown by almost 20% for each of the past five years, and the total is expected to hit 735 million by 2013.
Around a 10th of Africa's land mass is covered by mobile-internet services – a higher proportion than in India. This has allowed Africans to leapfrog poor landline infrastructure, which had been a brake on progress. Many will get their first internet experience on a mobile rather than a desktop computer, using services that are revolutionising commerce, farming and healthcare. Almost 18 million Kenyans use their mobiles as a bank account to deposit or transfer money and pay their accounts – contributing 8% of GDP.
Technology startup companies are flourishing in hubs in Kenya, Nigeria, Rwanda and South Africa.Internet penetration is still relatively low at 120 million users, but catching up fast: the growth rate between 2000 and 2011 was 2,527%, compared with a world average of 480%. These include around 32 million Facebook users. In all, 27% of African internet users have Facebook profiles, compared with 18% of users in Asia.
The spread of wireless-equipped coffee shops and shopping malls such as the Accra Mall in Ghana, The Palms in Lagos, Nigeria, and Westgate in Nairobi, Kenya, reflects the rise of the African consumer. Their spending is projected by the McKinsey Global Institute to reach $1.4tn (£900bn) in 2020, up from about $860bn (£550bn) in 2008. Retail giants such as Walmart are coming for a piece of the action, as sales of fridges, TVs and mobile phones have surged in virtually every African country in recent years, AfDB says.
Possession of cars and motorcycles in Ghana, for example, has risen by 81% in the past five years...
"A lot of it is through political stability," said Dr Vivek Solanki, then AMI's chief executive. "If you look at the wars and famine, it's minimal. Africa has more than 50 nation states," said Dr Vivek Solanki, then AMI's chief executive "and at the moment as we speak there are perhaps three or four countries with warring factions going on.
Most of Africa has now stabilised," he adds"most of Africa is educated and affluent not only through foreign investment but through local entrepreneurship, local enterprise, local education.
"The combination means there has been this burgeoning middle class that's come up and they have demands just like you and me."
I wonder who? :roll:
Nice one, go talk about me over the messageboard.
Where else have you posted about me?
I don't listen to them because they suck, the type of fans they attract just make them annoying but that is not why I don't like them, get it right please.
And I never labelled all AC/DC fans bogans, gee putting words in my mouth now?
What you want me to like bogans? Hang with them? People that have no interest in being positive contributors to society, instead hang near train stations getting drunk and abusive.
RIGHT ! LOL!!!
If I were part of the band in any way and I saw this, I would demand immediately that it be taken down.
It is THAT bad.
This place leads to warnings and bannings.
Godfather.
Godfather.
then leave man why do keep coming back ?
ps. I think we all feel that way from time to time thou.
Godfather.
*whispers in your ear the favour I ask of you*
As far as I can tell, for many of you the train has always been about dumping on others who fail to share your perspective on life/society/religion/whatever. I only come here for entertainment.
I can grant you this favor for you, someday the time may come that I ask you to preform a service for me and that day may never come but if it does will you be ready to preform that service for me ?
Godfather.
Yes Godfather, anytime I will be there for you, and do what you ask of me.
Godfather.
Godfather.