for some people, it is like the possibility of a real life troll with an axe and orange hair living underneath the Ben Franklin bridge. I can't know it doesn't exist, but I sure as hell don't believe that it does. The possibility is SO amazingly low, like way less than .00001%, that any rational person would just say that it is so low that they can assume it doesn't exist and put it out of their mind.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Ok so let me decipher your message... it is ok to preach gods love and joy and "plan" in the guise of evolving, change, spreading/sharing god's love and somehow intertwine your personal beliefs of a god upon everyone else in society, but if a person states their 2 cents about why they do not believe in a god or why they believe others do, that's insensitive or disrespectful? Call me crazy but this is not "tolerance" but intolerance, as you have no real place for describing people who do not believe in any form in a god or your version of such, without demeaning it to some fit some characterization your own beliefs. Look at the original post.. where's the tolerance for people who don't believe such? How come no "RAFT" comments there? Reality is when people who believe in god have their beliefs challenged, they do no preach tolerance, they get defensive and tell others to be tolerant instead of being tolerant themselves. Ever hear the saying, if you're a hammer, everything in life looks like nail? This is exactly what you are doing.. you take everyone's belief or lack their of, and mold it to fit your own personal beliefs. So for your silly acronym, there's a lack of respect, appreciation, forgiveness and trust. I'd prefer people just be direct and call a spade a spade if they belief it rather than try and project a false sense of others beliefs and tolerance.
As for that 6 yr old, it's quite easy to simply pass everything off in the world as human made and fixable by them, while letting a god off the hook.. it's a cop-out in my opinion.
inferring believers are inferior and weak is where the disrespect and insensitivity
of yours comes in...
this the sole reason I mentioned RAFT
RAFT is tolerance I'm sure you can see that and I am asking you to please
not call others weak and inferior because their beliefs are not the same as yours
this a put down
And your first comments here you sound like you are getting very heated and starting
to put down my beliefs which I have a right to state as you do
I am respecting your right to your beliefs can you be respectful mine?
I'm not saying people are weak or inferior, I merely stated why I believe people believe in religion. You can take that as an insult, I do not offer it as one. People are entitled to believe whatever they like, but screaming to the heavens how much you love god or your faith and how others need it as is well in a debate forum is not preaching any of the RAFT, so please feel free to say the same towards the OP, not just the guy speaking his 2 cents about his beliefs or lack their off in a god. I've said it several times before in this thread, believe whatever religion or god or disbelief of both, but keep it to yourself. The world doesn't need proselytizing.
inferring believers are inferior and weak is where the disrespect and insensitivity
of yours comes in...
this the sole reason I mentioned RAFT
RAFT is tolerance I'm sure you can see that and I am asking you to please
not call others weak and inferior because their beliefs are not the same as yours
this a put down
And your first comments here you sound like you are getting very heated and starting
to put down my beliefs which I have a right to state as you do
I am respecting your right to your beliefs can you be respectful mine?
We can agree to disagree and be kind please
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
good question, how do you and others know that there is no God though ?
two sided coin I guess.
Godfather.
I only believe in what can be proven. It is impossible to prove a negative, just like you can't prove Zeus never existed, etc etc..
Until there is evidence something exists, I don't believe in it. Quite simple!
Yes you have no faith then?
Only believe that which you know, trust to be true. That which has proof.
See I'm the same but for me and maybe others this is God...
it really requires little faith it is based in knowledge.
Something you have not learned or experienced as of yet.....
but something I have. And perhaps something you do not want to experience.
Like love might be an example
I have met those who do not believe in love at first sight, soul mates, lifetime love.
Yet this has been my life experiences therefore I believe but for them
they do not from their experiences.
Or Pearl Jam we can all use that love as an example, as we walk amongst those
who do not grasp the greatness of Pearl Jam, have not seen or heard the proof
and therefore learned the love they can not understand it.
I liken this for understanding only so others can know my understanding of God.
It may not be for them, that is cool, this is just for understanding sake.
I have my proof without a doubt. It is not yours and some will choose to never find proof
but aren't we all glad we found Pearl Jam!
I have relatives that did years in Japanese concentration camps. Tortured for years and lucky to eventually make it home. I have a great uncle who was in Germany for the liberation of Jewish concentration camps. After hearing their stories all my life it's clear to me if there is a God he's not worth praying to.
My father in law, who was like a father to me, also was a POW, in WWII
He and I would never conclude God had anything to do with what
human beings do to other human beings ... this is all on us
but God had everything to do with seeing him through
his hellish ordeal, giving him hope and the will to live,
the light in the darkest hour.
I do not understand blaming God for the life we lead
But if god is all knowing. If all of this is his plan. Why shouldn't he be blamed.
If he created you
If he created me
Didnt he also create adolf hitler.and as such shouldn't he be held responsible for that and what came from that
Above you say he has everything to do with getting him through his hellish ordeal. How so??
I'm not trying to disrespect what your father in law went through just trying to understand why you think it was god that pulled him through. And if he was powerful enough to do that why wasn't it prevented in the first place or why didn't others survive
I'm not saying people are weak or inferior, I merely stated why I believe people believe in religion. You can take that as an insult, I do not offer it as one. People are entitled to believe whatever they like, but screaming to the heavens how much you love god or your faith and how others need it as is well in a debate forum is not preaching any of the RAFT, so please feel free to say the same towards the OP, not just the guy speaking his 2 cents about his beliefs or lack their off in a god. I've said it several times before in this thread, believe whatever religion or god or disbelief of both, but keep it to yourself. The world doesn't need proselytizing.
inferring believers are inferior and weak is where the disrespect and insensitivity
of yours comes in...
this the sole reason I mentioned RAFT
RAFT is tolerance I'm sure you can see that and I am asking you to please
not call others weak and inferior because their beliefs are not the same as yours
this a put down
And your first comments here you sound like you are getting very heated and starting
to put down my beliefs which I have a right to state as you do
I am respecting your right to your beliefs can you be respectful mine?
We can agree to disagree and be kind please
you are saying that is why someone believes
from weakness and being inferior yes that is calling them weak and inferior
something used often by nonbelievers but unfounded.
I have never said others need God or faith ... I do not believe this
I replied to the Op and to other posters, most recently to the fact I believe our fate
is in our hands not God, that God is not to blame for our messes
Why are you taking offense to
Respect
Appreciation
Forgiveness
Trust
these are the backbone to all relationships... nothing religious or spiritual about that
I do not understand that :? nor why you think I must remain quiet because you do not agree
there are believers who like to share their thoughts and others who might enjoy
to hear another side
it is your belief we should not rejoice in God and that is yours
but there are others who are free to do just that
My father in law, who was like a father to me, also was a POW, in WWII
He and I would never conclude God had anything to do with what
human beings do to other human beings ... this is all on us
but God had everything to do with seeing him through
his hellish ordeal, giving him hope and the will to live,
the light in the darkest hour.
I do not understand blaming God for the life we lead
But if god is all knowing. If all of this is his plan. Why shouldn't he be blamed.
If he created you
If he created me
Didnt he also create adolf hitler.and as such shouldn't he be held responsible for that and what came from that
Above you say he has everything to do with getting him through his hellish ordeal. How so??
I'm not trying to disrespect what your father in law went through just trying to understand why you think it was god that pulled him through. And if he was powerful enough to do that why wasn't it prevented in the first place or why didn't others survive
God is not here to prevent we are here to experience, learn from those experiences
however tragic and continue on our path of spiritual growth. Our path through
eternity. This is my belief
Cap, my father in law, was an extremely special man ... like a cat...
nine lives and then some.
My point he had looked death in the eyes many times in this lifetime.
Much more than most.Taken these experiences, learned,
grew spiritually.
I know he held God close in his heart. As I do. This love of life itself,
this understanding of the beyond, kept him strong and hopeful
that he would return to his loved ones after the war was over.
This a message of strength from God and that wonderful feeling of never being alone.
I think it is Adolf Hitler and perhaps some others who should be blamed for WWII
not God.
People do not like believing they live in the unknown, so instead we have religion or god to fill the voids. I am not saying they're inferior for believing in such, but I do think it is some type of crutch - the need to fill in the blank in order to seek greater meaning, faith or guidance in life. If you believe that to be insulting, so be it, to me it is merely an answer to why people believe more so than whether it's positive or negative.
As for RAFT, I think it's a great idea, but reading this thread is proof positive that most do not adhere too it.. including the original poster and in some of your remarks as well.
In terms of bolstering any idea or belief, at some point it becomes not soley "sharing" or "rejoicing" but instead demeaning to outsiders or nonbelievers. In the same tone and manner that there's good and bad patrtiotism/nationalism, something out of rejoice can be used in a negative manner. And for the record, I'd have the same level and type of responses for any post supporting my beliefs. At some point in threads like these, everyone is just seeking reaffirmation of what they already believe through others instead of discussing the topic or trying to learn or grow. And in many instances, people take for granted what they belief and project it upon others. Threads where people have very concrete beliefs, they usually boil down to arguements instead of debates because they're not seeking debate or growth, but instead refute it.
you are saying that is why someone believes
from weakness and being inferior yes that is calling them weak and inferior
something used often by nonbelievers but unfounded.
I have never said others need God or faith ... I do not believe this
I replied to the Op and to other posters, most recently to the fact I believe our fate
is in our hands not God, that God is not to blame for our messes
Why are you taking offense to
Respect
Appreciation
Forgiveness
Trust
these are the backbone to all relationships... nothing religious or spiritual about that
I do not understand that :? nor why you think I must remain quiet because you do not agree
there are believers who like to share their thoughts and others who might enjoy
to hear another side
it is your belief we should not rejoice in God and that is yours
but there are others who are free to do just that
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
People do not like believing they live in the unknown, so instead we have religion or god to fill the voids. I am not saying they're inferior for believing in such, but I do think it is some type of crutch - the need to fill in the blank in order to seek greater meaning, faith or guidance in life. If you believe that to be insulting, so be it, to me it is merely an answer to why people believe more so than whether it's positive or negative.
As for RAFT, I think it's a great idea, but reading this thread is proof positive that most do not adhere too it.. including the original poster and in some of your remarks as well.
In terms of bolstering any idea or belief, at some point it becomes not soley "sharing" or "rejoicing" but instead demeaning to outsiders or nonbelievers. In the same tone and manner that there's good and bad patrtiotism/nationalism, something out of rejoice can be used in a negative manner. And for the record, I'd have the same level and type of responses for any post supporting my beliefs. At some point in threads like these, everyone is just seeking reaffirmation of what they already believe through others instead of discussing the topic or trying to learn or grow. And in many instances, people take for granted what they belief and project it upon others. Threads where people have very concrete beliefs, they usually boil down to arguements instead of debates because they're not seeking debate or growth, but instead refute it.
We will have to agree to disagree on that point...
believing in a religion or God is a crutch ... just don't see that and is probably
why some choose not to believe perhaps
it's all in how one looks at things
and yes I believe that to be insulting I think other believers might to
actually have in the past
I think the threads do not have to go sour if we are kind and understanding and allow each to
rejoice in their own beliefs
This really wasn't a do you believe thread just like the one about republican candidates
and the media/gay marriage that was not yet another debate about the right to marry
although it went that way of course.
I responded to questions from non believers and enjoyed the Op's post very much.
Their enthusiasm endearing to me....
I like excited/passion
and I'm glad you liked RAFT...
I think we can do that for each other or at the least try
we could change the world!
I thought that one up in the hot tub the other night whilst having way too much fun!
i want all the churchey people to admit "I don't know if there's a God" because I can't stand when people are being dishonest with a) themselves or b) other people.
All the atheists too, by the way.
I'm trying to seduce everyone into my agnostic reality tunnel.
for me there is no God. for me that is an absolute. i was born an atheist.. as we all are. as a child i guess i was agnostic.. cause as a child id listen to others and had limited knowledge. then at age 11 i came to the conclusion that there is no God. i have never wavered from that despite the years since asking questions. its not a case of me NOT wanting to believe, tis just up to this point in my life no one has been able to refute my atheist viewpoint... not even God herself. does this mean im likely to find God on my deathbed.. no. does it mean im not open to God being proven to exist... no. is there a touch of arrogance in that last statement... perhaps. no one can make you believe that God exists... no one can prove to you that God exists...only you can do that. but for me there is no God and i wont label myself an agnostic just in case or cause the idea of absolutes dont appeal to some people. this is my reality... but it is not a tunnel cause i can see in all directions.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i want all the churchey people to admit "I don't know if there's a God" because I can't stand when people are being dishonest with a) themselves or b) other people.
All the atheists too, by the way.
I'm trying to seduce everyone into my agnostic reality tunnel.
for me there is no God. for me that is an absolute. i was born an atheist.. as we all are. as a child i guess i was agnostic.. cause as a child id listen to others and had limited knowledge. then at age 11 i came to the conclusion that there is no God. i have never wavered from that despite the years since asking questions. its not a case of me NOT wanting to believe, tis just up to this point in my life no one has been able to refute my atheist viewpoint... not even God herself. does this mean im likely to find God on my deathbed.. no. does it mean im not open to God being proven to exist... no. is there a touch of arrogance in that last statement... perhaps. no one can make you believe that God exists... no one can prove to you that God exists...only you can do that. but for me there is no God and i wont label myself an agnostic just in case or cause the idea of absolutes dont appeal to some people. this is my reality... but it is not a tunnel cause i can see in all directions.
*fundamental atheists and fundamental christians against the agnostic approach to not claiming to know the unknowable*
if there was a scientific explanation for how we got here, I'd believe it instantly. but there isn't, so I'll just continue to be one of those wacky fence-sitters who keeps an open dialogue on the subject... even though I consider it to be a wildly redundant and useless subject to talk about.
after all, belief (of god, or no-god) is the birth of ignorance.
seduced yet?
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I have something that will make you all confused with the juxtaposition of this whole God=Kindness=Happiness=Tolerence.
Anybody ever hear of the Louis Theroux? A brave documentary film maker.
The Most Hated Family in America is a TV documentary written and presented by the BBC’s Louis Theroux about the family at the heart of the Westboro Baptist Church.
At the heart of the documentary is the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), headed by Fred Phelps and based in Topeka, Kansas. It runs the website GodHatesFags.com,[1] and GodHatesAmerica.com, and other websites expressing condemnation of LGBT, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Sweden, Ireland, Canada, The Netherlands, and other groups. The organization is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League,[2] and classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[3][4] The group has achieved national notice because of its picketing of funeral processions of U.S. soldiers killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The church bases its work around the belief expressed by its best known slogan and the address of its primary website, “God hates fags”, and expresses the opinion, based on its Biblical interpretation, that nearly every tragedy in the world is God’s punishment for homosexuality – specifically society’s increasing tolerance and acceptance of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people. It maintains that God hates homosexuals above all other kinds of “sinners”[5] and that homosexuality should be a capital crime.[6]
Louis Theroux stated that the Phelpses are the most extreme people he has ever met.
If you want some really fucked up view on what God is spend a hour watching this horrific ignorance in Gods name.
The point is..that hate breeds hate. And the just because some really nasty people spout their opinions in Gods name does not mean that God should be thrown out. For example when they picket, with their tiny kids no less, they spread such an evil message that people stop and swear at them, throw things at their innocent children which she is clearly fucking up and even one man stopped and said, "hey I don't believe in homosexuality myself, but don't you think how you are present this is wrong because you are saying you are the message and your message is of hate. Period. Is God or Spirit hate? No. It's just being kind and with that kindness come a feeling of doing write which some feel like it is a supernatural experience.
What i would say to these fuckers is to stop my car and get out and give them love. Do exactly what they don't expect. Tell them that you are spreading the message of love and that you totally accept them and that you wish them a happy and peaceful life here and where ever they go. Then tell them you don't agree but love them anyway. That is what they don't want. They feed off hate. Literally feed off of it. It justifies their belief.
Even those that don't believe in God stop and flip them off. What is that then. If you don't believe God, then how can you explain non believers still having compassion for people. If you don't believe then you would stand up with them and hate too. It's not really God we are talking about, it KINDNESS TOWARDS OUR FELLOW MAN AND TOLERANCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE JUST FULL OF HATE. We have to find compassion for the hateful too because again hate makes them more justified that they are right and they then tell us all even those that don't believe in hell that they are going there.
I have never seen anything like this. I really think if you have been involved with this thread you must see this documentary.
The most ironic thing is the amazingly tolerant man who made this film IS gay and they know it. He has a partner and a child. They do open their home to him to spread their message. At times he sees real human being in there and then there is a moment when 21 year old daughter is taking him to a protest of a funeral and they are chatting like friends. He asks, you know I am gay and I have partner and a child. She laughs and says well your going to hell. Continues to laugh. He ask her "why do you find it funny that I am going to hell?" She says that makes her happy because that is God working through her. Absolutely fucking nuts.
My point. Stop thinking of God as religion and extremists. It was never never meant to be that way and because some uneducated hateful ignorant people spread words of hate, does not mean that spiritual thinking and believe in something wonderful should be thrown out in the trash because them. In the end...we have to tolerate all kinds of shit to really really be good people. I'm not saying let men rape children, i'm saying that people are evolving and some are greatly confused that we all live on the same planet. To love the unloveable IS THE MESSAGE OF SPIRITUALITY, RELIGION WHATEVER FUCKING WORD YOU USE. Keep feeding the monster with doubt and this is what we will all be, two sides constantly arguing what we think some force we can even imagine in our tiny pea brains what it means.
Seriously, watch it. Try not to hate them and see how hard it is and then try to love them regardless becasue they basically just don't know due to ignorance, abuse, power and fear of the unknown.
The film should be shown on TV. but you know people won't get the lesson and will just not go over with the sponsors.
"Please bring GOD back into our lives" sounds like an imposition, and the enthusiasm is not at all endearing to me.
There may be a God of some sort - I prefer to use the term "divinity". I do think there is divinity, and it's not a belief, really... I honestly just feel the presence of the divine often. I could be wrong about it, but that's what I think it is. It's not telling me what to do, or what other people should do. It's just the sense that there's something even more powerful than what I currently perceive as reality.
When it comes to politics, I am very much a humanist. I don't think we should base any decisions or laws on what some say are divine revelations. Our laws, whether we admit it or not, come from our own minds, and nowhere else.
If it makes a man happy to have faith then good luck to them. Get what ever joy you can in your life .
I do not but do not begrudge anyone
My onl issue is when thse beliefs seek to make me and others follow their beliefs through government
Be that gay marriage
Abortion
Stem cell research etc
I would just like those who do follow the faith in god to answer why it should affect me.
*fundamental atheists and fundamental christians against the agnostic approach to not claiming to know the unknowable*
if there was a scientific explanation for how we got here, I'd believe it instantly. but there isn't, so I'll just continue to be one of those wacky fence-sitters who keeps an open dialogue on the subject... even though I consider it to be a wildly redundant and useless subject to talk about.
after all, belief (of god, or no-god) is the birth of ignorance.
seduced yet?
nope. as i said no one can make you believe...
would you believe that scientific explanation instantly even if you couldnt understand it.. if it made no sense to you?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Ok dammit....if you all can't get it or refuse to watch something to make you get it.
then take this! I'm gonna make you hear the words of God sung by someone I know I i love intensely and this song although it was written by another prophet is being delivered by Ed. Someone we all love.... and if you don't feel moved by this message..then don't worry because someone who is glady give you theirs without you even knowing it.
Ok dammit....if you all can't get it or refuse to watch something to make you get it.
then take this! I'm gonna make you hear the words of God sung by someone I know I i love intensely and this song although it was written by another prophet is being delivered by Ed. Someone we all love.... and if you don't feel moved by this message..then don't worry because someone who is glady give you theirs without you even knowing it.
excuse me.. youre going to make us hear the word of God?? as much as ive never agreed with pandora on anything shes ever said about her belief in God nothing she(or anyone else for that matter) has ever said has come close to being as offensive as i find your post. why dont you just tie us all up and beat it into us.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I was just reading an article in National Geographic today about The Iceman; a human being found nearly perfectly preserved in a mountainous region in ice. He was found by hikers in the mid 80's, but just now were they afforded the technology to thaw him out and surgically investigate this man. He was alive 5300 years ago.
Then I began thinking about these threads.......where was god then? Did the Iceman pray? I highly doubt it. why did god only "appear" to man in the last 2000 years? why not way before that?
I know why.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
*fundamental atheists and fundamental christians against the agnostic approach to not claiming to know the unknowable*
if there was a scientific explanation for how we got here, I'd believe it instantly. but there isn't, so I'll just continue to be one of those wacky fence-sitters who keeps an open dialogue on the subject... even though I consider it to be a wildly redundant and useless subject to talk about.
after all, belief (of god, or no-god) is the birth of ignorance.
seduced yet?
nope. as i said no one can make you believe...
would you believe that scientific explanation instantly even if you couldnt understand it.. if it made no sense to you?
I would. I don't understand most of what Stephen Hawking says, but I have "faith" that he knows what he's talking about.
Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"When Julian Jaynes...speculates that until late in the second millennium B.C. men had no consciousness but were automatically obeying the voices of gods, we are astounded but compelled to follow this remarkable thesis through all the corroborative evidence..." - John Updike, in The New Yorker
"This book and this man's ideas may be the most influential, not to say controversial, of the second half of the twentieth century. It renders whole shelves of books obsolete." - William Harrington, in Columbus Dispatch
"Having just finished The Origin of Consciousness, I myself feel something like Keats' Cortez staring at the Pacific, or at least like the early reviewers of Darwin or Freud. I'm not quite sure what to make of this new territory; but its expanse lies before me and I am startled by its power." - Edward Profitt, in Commonweal
"He is as startling as Freud was in The Interpretation of Dreams, and Jaynes is equally adept at forcing a new view of known human behavior." - Raymond Headlee, in American Journal of Psychiatry
"The bold hypothesis of the bicameral mind is an intellectual shock to the reader, but whether or not he ultimately accepts it he is forced to entertain it as a possibility. Even if he marshals arguments against it he has to think about matters he has never thought of before, or, if he has thought of them, he must think about them in contexts and relationships that are strikingly new." - Ernest R. Hilgard, Professor of Psychology, Stanford University
"The weight of original thought in it is so great that it makes me uneasy for the author's well-being: the human mind is not built to support such a burden." - D.C. Stove, in Encounter
At the heart of this book is the revolutionary idea that human consciousness did not begin far back in animal evolution but is a learned process brought into being out of an earlier hallucinatory mentality by cataclysm and catastrophe only 3000 years ago and still developing. The implications of this new scientific paradigm extend into virtually every aspect of our psychology, our history and culture, our religion - and indeed, our future. In the words of one reviewer, it is "a humbling text, the kind that reminds most of us who make our livings through thinking, how much thinking there is left to do."
* * *
Presents a theory of the bicameral mind which holds that ancient peoples could not "think" as we do today and were therefore "unconscious," a result of the domination of the right hemisphere; only catastrophe forced mankind to "learn" consciousness, a product of human history and culture and one that issues from the brain's left hemisphere. Three forms of human awareness, the bicameral or god-run man; the modern or problem-solving man; and contemporary forms of throwbacks to bicamerality (e.g., religious frenzy, hypnotism, and schizophrenia) are examined in terms of the physiology of the brain and how it applies to human psychology, culture, and history.
* * *
"O, what a world of unseen visions and heard silences, this insubstantial country of the mind! What ineffable essences, these touchless rememberings and unshowable reveries! And the privacy of it all! A secret theater of speechless monologue and prevenient counsel, an invisible mansion of all moods, musings, and mysteries, an infinite resort of disappointments and discoveries. A whole kingdom where each of us reigns reclusively alone, questioning what we will, commanding what we can. A hidden hermitage where we may study out the troubled book of what we have done and yet may do. An introcosm that is more myself than anything I can find in a mirror. This consciousness that is myself of selves, that is everything, and yet is nothing at all - what is it?
And where did it come from?
And why?"
- excerpt from the Introduction to The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
Amazon Readers Review:
The author posits a fascinating explanation for the origin of art and the creation of images by early mankind: the evolution of the human mind. He theorizes that the people of the Upper Paleolithic harnessed altered states of consciousness to fashion their society and used imagery as a means of establishing and defining social relationships. Cro-Magnon man had a more advanced neurological system and order of consciousness than the Neanderthals, and experienced shamanic trances and vivid mental imagery. It was important for them to paint these images on cave walls that served as a membrane between the everyday world and the realm of the spirit.
Hallucinations were instrumental in personal advancement and the development of society. He refers to the pioneering psychologist William James who already in 1902 pointed out the different states of consciousness and to Colin Martindale who identified the following different states: Waking, realistic fantasy, autistic fantasy, reverie, hypnagogic and dreaming. The sense of absolute unitary being (transcendence/ecstasy) is generated by a spillover between neural circuits in the brain caused by factors like meditation, rhythmic stimulus, fasting etc. The essential elements of the religious experience are thus wired into the brain.
Two case studies are used in support of this theory: South African San rock art and North American rock art. Chapter 8 is especially fascinating since it offers possible solutions to certain puzzles of cave art, like the mixture of representational and geometric imagery. The author believes that the trail of images from the cave entrance to the dark, almost inaccessible recesses represents a connecting link beween the two elements of an "above/below" binary opposition. Physical entry into the caves reflected the entry into the mental vortex that leads to the hallucinations of the deep trance state. In other words, the trail from the conscious mind to the deep recesses of the subconscious.
This book provides much food for thought about our earliest ancestors and about the evolution of consciousness. Graham Hancock's absorbing work Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind was written in defense of Lewis-Williams' theory. In addition I recommend William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience, R M Bucke's Cosmic Consciousness, Rupert Sheldrake's Chaos, Creativity and Cosmic Consciousness plus Stone Age Soundtracks: The Acoustic Archaeology of Ancient Sites by Paul Devereux as companion reading to Lewis-Williams' fascinating text. The book includes many figures and 97 illustrations of which 27 are in colour.
If it makes a man happy to have faith then good luck to them. Get what ever joy you can in your life .
I do not but do not begrudge anyone
My onl issue is when thse beliefs seek to make me and others follow their beliefs through government
Be that gay marriage
Abortion
Stem cell research etc
I would just like those who do follow the faith in god to answer why it should affect me.
I am in agreeance I do not feel religion belongs in politics but ones core beliefs
carry over to how they feel our country should be run.
I don't think we can get away from that. This is one reason I am an independent voter.
Brothers and sisters, have you heard the news?
The storm has lifted and there's nothing to lose,
So swap your confirmation for your dancing shoes,
Because there never was no God.
Step out of the darkness and onto the streets,
Forget about the fast, let's have a carnival feast,
Raise up your lowered head to hear the liberation beat,
Because there never was no God.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
No cowering in the dark before these overbearing priests,
Not waiting until we die until we restitute the meek,
No blaming all our failings on imaginary beasts,
Because there never was no God.
No fighting over land your distant fathers told you of,
Not spilling blood for those who have never spread a drop of blood,
No finger pointing justified by fairies up above,
Because there never was no God.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
And I know you're scared of dieing man and I am too,
But just pretending it's not happening isn't gonna see us through,
So just accept that there's an end game and we haven't got much time,
And then in the here and now we can try and do things right.
Forget about the crazy things that people have believed,
And think of wondrous things that normal people have achieved,
'Cos I've known beauty in the stillness of cathedrals in the day,
I sang Glory Hallelujah! Won't you wash my sins away?
But now I'm singing my refrain and this is what I say,
I say there never was no God.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Have you read these books? Interesting concepts. For the first one, I was wondering how one goes about knowing what the minds of people were like so long ago.
men had no consciousness but were automatically obeying the voices of gods? this is not my field at all, but I find that to be very hard to believe. the notion of consciousness not being developed immediately sounds reasonable, but human beings probably listened to their natural instincts, like all animals, before they gained it. no need for gods.
Have you read these books? Interesting concepts. For the first one, I was wondering how one goes about knowing what the minds of people were like so long ago.
I have. He draws his conclusions from many areas, including modern day psychology, ancient texts, ancient cave art, the earliest literature - the older portions of the Old Testament, Homer's 'Iliad' e.t.c.,
Comments
i think we all need a refresher on epistemology. read up, please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
for some people, it is like the possibility of a real life troll with an axe and orange hair living underneath the Ben Franklin bridge. I can't know it doesn't exist, but I sure as hell don't believe that it does. The possibility is SO amazingly low, like way less than .00001%, that any rational person would just say that it is so low that they can assume it doesn't exist and put it out of their mind.
of yours comes in...
this the sole reason I mentioned RAFT
RAFT is tolerance I'm sure you can see that and I am asking you to please
not call others weak and inferior because their beliefs are not the same as yours
this a put down
And your first comments here you sound like you are getting very heated and starting
to put down my beliefs which I have a right to state as you do
I am respecting your right to your beliefs can you be respectful mine?
We can agree to disagree and be kind please
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Only believe that which you know, trust to be true. That which has proof.
See I'm the same but for me and maybe others this is God...
it really requires little faith it is based in knowledge.
Something you have not learned or experienced as of yet.....
but something I have. And perhaps something you do not want to experience.
Like love might be an example
I have met those who do not believe in love at first sight, soul mates, lifetime love.
Yet this has been my life experiences therefore I believe but for them
they do not from their experiences.
Or Pearl Jam we can all use that love as an example, as we walk amongst those
who do not grasp the greatness of Pearl Jam, have not seen or heard the proof
and therefore learned the love they can not understand it.
I liken this for understanding only so others can know my understanding of God.
It may not be for them, that is cool, this is just for understanding sake.
I have my proof without a doubt. It is not yours and some will choose to never find proof
but aren't we all glad we found Pearl Jam!
But if god is all knowing. If all of this is his plan. Why shouldn't he be blamed.
If he created you
If he created me
Didnt he also create adolf hitler.and as such shouldn't he be held responsible for that and what came from that
Above you say he has everything to do with getting him through his hellish ordeal. How so??
I'm not trying to disrespect what your father in law went through just trying to understand why you think it was god that pulled him through. And if he was powerful enough to do that why wasn't it prevented in the first place or why didn't others survive
from weakness and being inferior yes that is calling them weak and inferior
something used often by nonbelievers but unfounded.
I have never said others need God or faith ... I do not believe this
I replied to the Op and to other posters, most recently to the fact I believe our fate
is in our hands not God, that God is not to blame for our messes
Why are you taking offense to
Respect
Appreciation
Forgiveness
Trust
these are the backbone to all relationships... nothing religious or spiritual about that
I do not understand that :? nor why you think I must remain quiet because you do not agree
there are believers who like to share their thoughts and others who might enjoy
to hear another side
it is your belief we should not rejoice in God and that is yours
but there are others who are free to do just that
however tragic and continue on our path of spiritual growth. Our path through
eternity. This is my belief
Cap, my father in law, was an extremely special man ... like a cat...
nine lives and then some.
My point he had looked death in the eyes many times in this lifetime.
Much more than most.Taken these experiences, learned,
grew spiritually.
I know he held God close in his heart. As I do. This love of life itself,
this understanding of the beyond, kept him strong and hopeful
that he would return to his loved ones after the war was over.
This a message of strength from God and that wonderful feeling of never being alone.
I think it is Adolf Hitler and perhaps some others who should be blamed for WWII
not God.
As for RAFT, I think it's a great idea, but reading this thread is proof positive that most do not adhere too it.. including the original poster and in some of your remarks as well.
In terms of bolstering any idea or belief, at some point it becomes not soley "sharing" or "rejoicing" but instead demeaning to outsiders or nonbelievers. In the same tone and manner that there's good and bad patrtiotism/nationalism, something out of rejoice can be used in a negative manner. And for the record, I'd have the same level and type of responses for any post supporting my beliefs. At some point in threads like these, everyone is just seeking reaffirmation of what they already believe through others instead of discussing the topic or trying to learn or grow. And in many instances, people take for granted what they belief and project it upon others. Threads where people have very concrete beliefs, they usually boil down to arguements instead of debates because they're not seeking debate or growth, but instead refute it.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
We will have to agree to disagree on that point...
believing in a religion or God is a crutch ... just don't see that and is probably
why some choose not to believe perhaps
it's all in how one looks at things
and yes I believe that to be insulting I think other believers might to
actually have in the past
I think the threads do not have to go sour if we are kind and understanding and allow each to
rejoice in their own beliefs
This really wasn't a do you believe thread just like the one about republican candidates
and the media/gay marriage that was not yet another debate about the right to marry
although it went that way of course.
I responded to questions from non believers and enjoyed the Op's post very much.
Their enthusiasm endearing to me....
I like excited/passion
and I'm glad you liked RAFT...
I think we can do that for each other or at the least try
we could change the world!
I thought that one up in the hot tub the other night whilst having way too much fun!
for me there is no God. for me that is an absolute. i was born an atheist.. as we all are. as a child i guess i was agnostic.. cause as a child id listen to others and had limited knowledge. then at age 11 i came to the conclusion that there is no God. i have never wavered from that despite the years since asking questions. its not a case of me NOT wanting to believe, tis just up to this point in my life no one has been able to refute my atheist viewpoint... not even God herself. does this mean im likely to find God on my deathbed.. no. does it mean im not open to God being proven to exist... no. is there a touch of arrogance in that last statement... perhaps. no one can make you believe that God exists... no one can prove to you that God exists...only you can do that. but for me there is no God and i wont label myself an agnostic just in case or cause the idea of absolutes dont appeal to some people. this is my reality... but it is not a tunnel cause i can see in all directions.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
*fundamental atheists and fundamental christians against the agnostic approach to not claiming to know the unknowable*
if there was a scientific explanation for how we got here, I'd believe it instantly. but there isn't, so I'll just continue to be one of those wacky fence-sitters who keeps an open dialogue on the subject... even though I consider it to be a wildly redundant and useless subject to talk about.
after all, belief (of god, or no-god) is the birth of ignorance.
seduced yet?
Anybody ever hear of the Louis Theroux? A brave documentary film maker.
The Most Hated Family in America is a TV documentary written and presented by the BBC’s Louis Theroux about the family at the heart of the Westboro Baptist Church.
At the heart of the documentary is the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), headed by Fred Phelps and based in Topeka, Kansas. It runs the website GodHatesFags.com,[1] and GodHatesAmerica.com, and other websites expressing condemnation of LGBT, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Sweden, Ireland, Canada, The Netherlands, and other groups. The organization is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League,[2] and classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[3][4] The group has achieved national notice because of its picketing of funeral processions of U.S. soldiers killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The church bases its work around the belief expressed by its best known slogan and the address of its primary website, “God hates fags”, and expresses the opinion, based on its Biblical interpretation, that nearly every tragedy in the world is God’s punishment for homosexuality – specifically society’s increasing tolerance and acceptance of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people. It maintains that God hates homosexuals above all other kinds of “sinners”[5] and that homosexuality should be a capital crime.[6]
Louis Theroux stated that the Phelpses are the most extreme people he has ever met.
If you want some really fucked up view on what God is spend a hour watching this horrific ignorance in Gods name.
The point is..that hate breeds hate. And the just because some really nasty people spout their opinions in Gods name does not mean that God should be thrown out. For example when they picket, with their tiny kids no less, they spread such an evil message that people stop and swear at them, throw things at their innocent children which she is clearly fucking up and even one man stopped and said, "hey I don't believe in homosexuality myself, but don't you think how you are present this is wrong because you are saying you are the message and your message is of hate. Period. Is God or Spirit hate? No. It's just being kind and with that kindness come a feeling of doing write which some feel like it is a supernatural experience.
What i would say to these fuckers is to stop my car and get out and give them love. Do exactly what they don't expect. Tell them that you are spreading the message of love and that you totally accept them and that you wish them a happy and peaceful life here and where ever they go. Then tell them you don't agree but love them anyway. That is what they don't want. They feed off hate. Literally feed off of it. It justifies their belief.
Even those that don't believe in God stop and flip them off. What is that then. If you don't believe God, then how can you explain non believers still having compassion for people. If you don't believe then you would stand up with them and hate too. It's not really God we are talking about, it KINDNESS TOWARDS OUR FELLOW MAN AND TOLERANCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE JUST FULL OF HATE. We have to find compassion for the hateful too because again hate makes them more justified that they are right and they then tell us all even those that don't believe in hell that they are going there.
I have never seen anything like this. I really think if you have been involved with this thread you must see this documentary.
It is on documentaryheaven.org. Here is the link to the show.
http://documentaryheaven.com/louis-ther ... n-america/
The most ironic thing is the amazingly tolerant man who made this film IS gay and they know it. He has a partner and a child. They do open their home to him to spread their message. At times he sees real human being in there and then there is a moment when 21 year old daughter is taking him to a protest of a funeral and they are chatting like friends. He asks, you know I am gay and I have partner and a child. She laughs and says well your going to hell. Continues to laugh. He ask her "why do you find it funny that I am going to hell?" She says that makes her happy because that is God working through her. Absolutely fucking nuts.
My point. Stop thinking of God as religion and extremists. It was never never meant to be that way and because some uneducated hateful ignorant people spread words of hate, does not mean that spiritual thinking and believe in something wonderful should be thrown out in the trash because them. In the end...we have to tolerate all kinds of shit to really really be good people. I'm not saying let men rape children, i'm saying that people are evolving and some are greatly confused that we all live on the same planet. To love the unloveable IS THE MESSAGE OF SPIRITUALITY, RELIGION WHATEVER FUCKING WORD YOU USE. Keep feeding the monster with doubt and this is what we will all be, two sides constantly arguing what we think some force we can even imagine in our tiny pea brains what it means.
Seriously, watch it. Try not to hate them and see how hard it is and then try to love them regardless becasue they basically just don't know due to ignorance, abuse, power and fear of the unknown.
The film should be shown on TV. but you know people won't get the lesson and will just not go over with the sponsors.
Please watch. :idea:
There may be a God of some sort - I prefer to use the term "divinity". I do think there is divinity, and it's not a belief, really... I honestly just feel the presence of the divine often. I could be wrong about it, but that's what I think it is. It's not telling me what to do, or what other people should do. It's just the sense that there's something even more powerful than what I currently perceive as reality.
When it comes to politics, I am very much a humanist. I don't think we should base any decisions or laws on what some say are divine revelations. Our laws, whether we admit it or not, come from our own minds, and nowhere else.
If it makes a man happy to have faith then good luck to them. Get what ever joy you can in your life .
I do not but do not begrudge anyone
My onl issue is when thse beliefs seek to make me and others follow their beliefs through government
Be that gay marriage
Abortion
Stem cell research etc
I would just like those who do follow the faith in god to answer why it should affect me.
nope. as i said no one can make you believe...
would you believe that scientific explanation instantly even if you couldnt understand it.. if it made no sense to you?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
then take this! I'm gonna make you hear the words of God sung by someone I know I i love intensely and this song although it was written by another prophet is being delivered by Ed. Someone we all love.... and if you don't feel moved by this message..then don't worry because someone who is glady give you theirs without you even knowing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=663L-GWQdws
excuse me.. youre going to make us hear the word of God?? as much as ive never agreed with pandora on anything shes ever said about her belief in God nothing she(or anyone else for that matter) has ever said has come close to being as offensive as i find your post. why dont you just tie us all up and beat it into us.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Then I began thinking about these threads.......where was god then? Did the Iceman pray? I highly doubt it. why did god only "appear" to man in the last 2000 years? why not way before that?
I know why.
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I would. I don't understand most of what Stephen Hawking says, but I have "faith" that he knows what he's talking about.
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These books may help to shed some light on your questions:
The Origin of Consciousness
in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
by Princeton University psychologist Julian Jaynes
http://www.julianjaynes.org/bicameralmind.php
"When Julian Jaynes...speculates that until late in the second millennium B.C. men had no consciousness but were automatically obeying the voices of gods, we are astounded but compelled to follow this remarkable thesis through all the corroborative evidence..."
- John Updike, in The New Yorker
"This book and this man's ideas may be the most influential, not to say controversial, of the second half of the twentieth century. It renders whole shelves of books obsolete."
- William Harrington, in Columbus Dispatch
"Having just finished The Origin of Consciousness, I myself feel something like Keats' Cortez staring at the Pacific, or at least like the early reviewers of Darwin or Freud. I'm not quite sure what to make of this new territory; but its expanse lies before me and I am startled by its power."
- Edward Profitt, in Commonweal
"He is as startling as Freud was in The Interpretation of Dreams, and Jaynes is equally adept at forcing a new view of known human behavior."
- Raymond Headlee, in American Journal of Psychiatry
"The bold hypothesis of the bicameral mind is an intellectual shock to the reader, but whether or not he ultimately accepts it he is forced to entertain it as a possibility. Even if he marshals arguments against it he has to think about matters he has never thought of before, or, if he has thought of them, he must think about them in contexts and relationships that are strikingly new."
- Ernest R. Hilgard, Professor of Psychology, Stanford University
"The weight of original thought in it is so great that it makes me uneasy for the author's well-being: the human mind is not built to support such a burden."
- D.C. Stove, in Encounter
At the heart of this book is the revolutionary idea that human consciousness did not begin far back in animal evolution but is a learned process brought into being out of an earlier hallucinatory mentality by cataclysm and catastrophe only 3000 years ago and still developing. The implications of this new scientific paradigm extend into virtually every aspect of our psychology, our history and culture, our religion - and indeed, our future. In the words of one reviewer, it is "a humbling text, the kind that reminds most of us who make our livings through thinking, how much thinking there is left to do."
* * *
Presents a theory of the bicameral mind which holds that ancient peoples could not "think" as we do today and were therefore "unconscious," a result of the domination of the right hemisphere; only catastrophe forced mankind to "learn" consciousness, a product of human history and culture and one that issues from the brain's left hemisphere. Three forms of human awareness, the bicameral or god-run man; the modern or problem-solving man; and contemporary forms of throwbacks to bicamerality (e.g., religious frenzy, hypnotism, and schizophrenia) are examined in terms of the physiology of the brain and how it applies to human psychology, culture, and history.
* * *
"O, what a world of unseen visions and heard silences, this insubstantial country of the mind! What ineffable essences, these touchless rememberings and unshowable reveries! And the privacy of it all! A secret theater of speechless monologue and prevenient counsel, an invisible mansion of all moods, musings, and mysteries, an infinite resort of disappointments and discoveries. A whole kingdom where each of us reigns reclusively alone, questioning what we will, commanding what we can. A hidden hermitage where we may study out the troubled book of what we have done and yet may do. An introcosm that is more myself than anything I can find in a mirror. This consciousness that is myself of selves, that is everything, and yet is nothing at all - what is it?
And where did it come from?
And why?"
- excerpt from the Introduction to The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
The Mind in the Cave
Consciousness and the Origins of Art
by David Lewis-Williams
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mind-Cave-Consc ... 0500284652
Amazon Readers Review:
The author posits a fascinating explanation for the origin of art and the creation of images by early mankind: the evolution of the human mind. He theorizes that the people of the Upper Paleolithic harnessed altered states of consciousness to fashion their society and used imagery as a means of establishing and defining social relationships. Cro-Magnon man had a more advanced neurological system and order of consciousness than the Neanderthals, and experienced shamanic trances and vivid mental imagery. It was important for them to paint these images on cave walls that served as a membrane between the everyday world and the realm of the spirit.
Hallucinations were instrumental in personal advancement and the development of society. He refers to the pioneering psychologist William James who already in 1902 pointed out the different states of consciousness and to Colin Martindale who identified the following different states: Waking, realistic fantasy, autistic fantasy, reverie, hypnagogic and dreaming. The sense of absolute unitary being (transcendence/ecstasy) is generated by a spillover between neural circuits in the brain caused by factors like meditation, rhythmic stimulus, fasting etc. The essential elements of the religious experience are thus wired into the brain.
Two case studies are used in support of this theory: South African San rock art and North American rock art. Chapter 8 is especially fascinating since it offers possible solutions to certain puzzles of cave art, like the mixture of representational and geometric imagery. The author believes that the trail of images from the cave entrance to the dark, almost inaccessible recesses represents a connecting link beween the two elements of an "above/below" binary opposition. Physical entry into the caves reflected the entry into the mental vortex that leads to the hallucinations of the deep trance state. In other words, the trail from the conscious mind to the deep recesses of the subconscious.
This book provides much food for thought about our earliest ancestors and about the evolution of consciousness. Graham Hancock's absorbing work Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind was written in defense of Lewis-Williams' theory. In addition I recommend William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience, R M Bucke's Cosmic Consciousness, Rupert Sheldrake's Chaos, Creativity and Cosmic Consciousness plus Stone Age Soundtracks: The Acoustic Archaeology of Ancient Sites by Paul Devereux as companion reading to Lewis-Williams' fascinating text. The book includes many figures and 97 illustrations of which 27 are in colour.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
carry over to how they feel our country should be run.
I don't think we can get away from that. This is one reason I am an independent voter.
The storm has lifted and there's nothing to lose,
So swap your confirmation for your dancing shoes,
Because there never was no God.
Step out of the darkness and onto the streets,
Forget about the fast, let's have a carnival feast,
Raise up your lowered head to hear the liberation beat,
Because there never was no God.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
No cowering in the dark before these overbearing priests,
Not waiting until we die until we restitute the meek,
No blaming all our failings on imaginary beasts,
Because there never was no God.
No fighting over land your distant fathers told you of,
Not spilling blood for those who have never spread a drop of blood,
No finger pointing justified by fairies up above,
Because there never was no God.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
And I know you're scared of dieing man and I am too,
But just pretending it's not happening isn't gonna see us through,
So just accept that there's an end game and we haven't got much time,
And then in the here and now we can try and do things right.
Forget about the crazy things that people have believed,
And think of wondrous things that normal people have achieved,
'Cos I've known beauty in the stillness of cathedrals in the day,
I sang Glory Hallelujah! Won't you wash my sins away?
But now I'm singing my refrain and this is what I say,
I say there never was no God.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
There is no God,
So clap your hands together,
There is no God,
No heaven and no hell.
There is no God,
We're all in this together,
There is no God,
So ring that victory bell.
Have you read these books? Interesting concepts. For the first one, I was wondering how one goes about knowing what the minds of people were like so long ago.
I have. He draws his conclusions from many areas, including modern day psychology, ancient texts, ancient cave art, the earliest literature - the older portions of the Old Testament, Homer's 'Iliad' e.t.c.,
me too. but it's something worth exploring.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicamerali ... chology%29
crazy stuff. so now I'll just refer to theists and "the bicamerals".
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Some more info here: http://www.julianjaynes.org/evidence_summary.php