i have a vivid memory of a sixth grade substitute, who often subbed in classes throughout middle school, where she mentioned either she was related to robert plant, or knew him and spent time at his house. She looks like Plant, and her sons went to my school. Ive always wanted to ask about it, either to her or her sons, but dont want to come off as the obviously obsessed fan i am, "are you related to robert plant?"
Speaking of Rolling Stone, I've been thinking about this for the last couple of weeks: I've seen comments on Facebook and Rolling Stone's site where there are articles where they praise Zepp, people will leave comments saying stuff like, "Rolling Stone is only praising Zepp now to make up for what they wrote in the '70s." Stuff like that. What got me thinking was those were completely different writers when Zeppelin was around and the writers of Rolling Stone now are people who grew up listening and loving Zeppelin.
Do any of you think those comments are fair?
I do think its fair, because of what the magazine that RS originally was, and the magazine it is in 2012. The general consensus obviously is that Led Zep is one of the greatest bands to have ever existed. And RS knows thats how people feel.
I also think its fair because lets face it, Pitchfork isnt the only site or music media outlet that could be considered snobby or pandering or whatever.
The original writers of RS in 1967/1968 onwards they werent old people. Fricke and who else may have been kids then, but the writers for RS at the time they were reviewing the Zep albums, it was a countercultural magazine for hippies and promoting hippie bands and politics. By definition the readers and writers involved would have been young. Lets not forget Cameron Crowe was a kid back then writing for RS giving them glowing reviews but the magazine at large panned them
I dont know how i feel about bands who dont have the entire original lineup reuniting and performing. I saw the pixies in 2009, and they had the original lineup. they were great. But I dont know about Zep without bonham, or rather with bonhams son filling in. I get it, they are legends and rock royalty and seeing them perform would be special
It would have been like if George, Paul and Ringo had played a show as The Beatles before George died. Sure it would have been awesome, and I'd love to see Paul and Ringo play together today, or solo for that matter, but it wont be the same without John and George.
I grew up enthralled and altered by grunge. But, I couldnt have cared less about AIC reuniting and really didnt enjoy the most recent album. Its not AIC without Layne.
Speaking of Rolling Stone, I've been thinking about this for the last couple of weeks: I've seen comments on Facebook and Rolling Stone's site where there are articles where they praise Zepp, people will leave comments saying stuff like, "Rolling Stone is only praising Zepp now to make up for what they wrote in the '70s." Stuff like that. What got me thinking was those were completely different writers when Zeppelin was around and the writers of Rolling Stone now are people who grew up listening and loving Zeppelin.
Do any of you think those comments are fair?
I do think its fair, because of what the magazine that RS originally was, and the magazine it is in 2012. The general consensus obviously is that Led Zep is one of the greatest bands to have ever existed. And RS knows thats how people feel.
I also think its fair because lets face it, Pitchfork isnt the only site or music media outlet that could be considered snobby or pandering or whatever.
The original writers of RS in 1967/1968 onwards they werent old people. Fricke and who else may have been kids then, but the writers for RS at the time they were reviewing the Zep albums, it was a countercultural magazine for hippies and promoting hippie bands and politics. By definition the readers and writers involved would have been young. Lets not forget Cameron Crowe was a kid back then writing for RS giving them glowing reviews but the magazine at large panned them
They also used to refuse to do interviews with Rolling Stone after their early album reviews. It was Cameron who kept persisting on an interview and eventually, they did do the interview. On an episode of "Charlie Rose" when he was promoting "Almost Famous", Cameron said something like the journalists who had reviewed the early albums, they were more fans of folk and the rock of the sixties and when Zeppelin came out, they weren't used to something like this. I can't explain it well like he does.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I have trouble keeping it out of the Top 1. RS lists are, um, special.
Anyone who gave Zep albums poor reviews back then, and Grammy people who never nominated them for anything, must really feel like idiots now.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I dont see Zep as having a defacto leader. What made them the 2nd greatest band of all time, is the virtuosity of every single member of the band, every one of them has a claim as the greatest musician ever at their instrument, including Plant who didnt play an instrument. Seems to me all 4 came to the table with ideas and things to bring to the songs and albums and contributed equally. I dont get the feeling Bonzo, or JPJ were shy about bringing in riffs or musical ideas, and i think plant and page knew the absurd amount of talent they possessed, individually and as a band.
Its kind of like arguing which Beatle is better. We all have our personal favorite, but what made both bands so deadly and untouchable was how beyond brilliant each individual member was. I find it hard to say which Zep band member I like best. With the caliber of musicianship they assembled its like the ultimate band. They couldnt have been more talented and they couldnt have assembled a more talented band.
Whoever posted prior to me saying people overlook certain Zep band members, I think thats an absolutely insane statement to make. The band was literally perfect. Couldnt have been improved. They sold 300 million plus albums, are in my view the 2nd greatest band of all time, and are revered as the heroes they deserve to be. Could they recieve more credit and awards, yeah they could. But in my view Zep is viewed correctly, and are given the right amount of credit and acclaim and legendary status. For all intents and purposes Plant was a golden haired God and still is, and I dont know any drummer, bassist, or guitarist who doesnt worship bonzo, JPJ, and page respectively.
What they achieved in their careers as a band is sickening and staggering to even consider.
Great post. And their career was rather short too.
They made about 80 or so songs, and their "batting average" - probably at least 70 really good songs out of those 80, so a batting average of about .875. :!: Tell me any other band even approaching that.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Page, why did you have to write some great but complicated stuff on guitar? "The Rain Song" was killing me tonight.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I dont see Zep as having a defacto leader. What made them the 2nd greatest band of all time, is the virtuosity of every single member of the band, every one of them has a claim as the greatest musician ever at their instrument, including Plant who didnt play an instrument. Seems to me all 4 came to the table with ideas and things to bring to the songs and albums and contributed equally. I dont get the feeling Bonzo, or JPJ were shy about bringing in riffs or musical ideas, and i think plant and page knew the absurd amount of talent they possessed, individually and as a band.
Its kind of like arguing which Beatle is better. We all have our personal favorite, but what made both bands so deadly and untouchable was how beyond brilliant each individual member was. I find it hard to say which Zep band member I like best. With the caliber of musicianship they assembled its like the ultimate band. They couldnt have been more talented and they couldnt have assembled a more talented band.
Whoever posted prior to me saying people overlook certain Zep band members, I think thats an absolutely insane statement to make. The band was literally perfect. Couldnt have been improved. They sold 300 million plus albums, are in my view the 2nd greatest band of all time, and are revered as the heroes they deserve to be. Could they recieve more credit and awards, yeah they could. But in my view Zep is viewed correctly, and are given the right amount of credit and acclaim and legendary status. For all intents and purposes Plant was a golden haired God and still is, and I dont know any drummer, bassist, or guitarist who doesnt worship bonzo, JPJ, and page respectively.
What they achieved in their careers as a band is sickening and staggering to even consider.
Great post. And their career was rather short too.
They made about 80 or so songs, and their "batting average" - probably at least 70 really good songs out of those 80, so a batting average of about .875. :!: Tell me any other band even approaching that.
Excellent point. Didnt every single one of their albums have a tracklist of only 8 songs? Its funny because people moan about short albums nowadays, the last Radiohead album for example, but in reality, most if not all of the beatles albums were 30 minutes or so total, and Zeps albums only had 8 songs. And as you point out, for Zep nearly every song they did was amazing. That said Ive never been too keen on In through the out door, or coda. But every single other album they did is essential.
What about the beatles for batting average? 12 studio albums, 217 songs. There are very few beatles songs that are bad. Anyone read that 1980 interview Lennon did where it seemed like the interviewer went through nearly every single beatles song and asked John did opinion of it. and nearly every song Lennon said it was a throwaway and rubbish song. Strange how artists can see their work as being trash, and then the larger public view it as essentially Biblical scripture
Excellent point. Didnt every single one of their albums have a tracklist of only 8 songs? Its funny because people moan about short albums nowadays, the last Radiohead album for example, but in reality, most if not all of the beatles albums were 30 minutes or so total, and Zeps albums only had 8 songs. And as you point out, for Zep nearly every song they did was amazing. That said Ive never been too keen on In through the out door, or coda. But every single other album they did is essential.
What about the beatles for batting average? 12 studio albums, 217 songs. There are very few beatles songs that are bad. Anyone read that 1980 interview Lennon did where it seemed like the interviewer went through nearly every single beatles song and asked John did opinion of it. and nearly every song Lennon said it was a throwaway and rubbish song. Strange how artists can see their work as being trash, and then the larger public view it as essentially Biblical scripture
did Zep drop off? Even though I like Physical Graffiti and Prescence, it seemed like post 1974 or so, the bands quality seriously dropped off. Page was into serious drug use, and most likely all the other members were into it too. Bonham died and they released their 2 least successful and least loved albums, and also in 1977 Plants son was killed. So, it seemed like the mid to late 70's were devastating for the band.
It seems just from my own viewing of DVD's of their performances , that multiple disc one called Led Zeppelin, the Led Zeppelin of 1973 at MSG or even earlier, theres that great earlier performance at Albert Hall in 70, they just sounded so raw, and jimmy played that insane version of White Summer. Anyways, watching the clips of their 1975 and 77 shows, it seemed like they had dropped off. Most noticeably in terms of Jimmy.
Ive always wondered what would have happened if: Bonham hadnt of died, and Plants son hadnt of been killed. Would they have remained a band ala the Stones, still making records even in 2012?
Or had Jimmy and everyone else not gone bonkers on the drug use, would they have improved at their crafts and instruments and somehow gotten better as insane as that seems given how immesely talented they already were.
It always seems like these insanely talented artists die young, or disappear into a haze of drug use and their talent is wasted. and then we are left wondering how they could have gotten better, bonham, or hendrix for example. One guy that seems to have went through hell, and then gotten jawdroppingly better in terms of musical ability would be frusciante.
With page, it seems like the drug use permanently lessened his skills. Dont get me wrong, if Led Zep was to tour, i'd happily go see them, and Page's guitar skills that I saw in This Might Get Loud, prove the guy can still play damn good, but its not the same Jimmy as 1973. Back then he was doing stuff no one in the world other than Hendrix could have done. He's my pick for 2nd best of all time, but it just seems like he isnt the same. Maybe thats age, but I think the drugs also played a huge part in the diminishing of his skills
did Zep drop off? Even though I like Physical Graffiti and Prescence, it seemed like post 1974 or so, the bands quality seriously dropped off. Page was into serious drug use, and most likely all the other members were into it too. Bonham died and they released their 2 least successful and least loved albums, and also in 1977 Plants son was killed. So, it seemed like the mid to late 70's were devastating for the band.
It seems just from my own viewing of DVD's of their performances , that multiple disc one called Led Zeppelin, the Led Zeppelin of 1973 at MSG or even earlier, theres that great earlier performance at Albert Hall in 70, they just sounded so raw, and jimmy played that insane version of White Summer. Anyways, watching the clips of their 1975 and 77 shows, it seemed like they had dropped off. Most noticeably in terms of Jimmy.
Ive always wondered what would have happened if: Bonham hadnt of died, and Plants son hadnt of been killed. Would they have remained a band ala the Stones, still making records even in 2012?
Or had Jimmy and everyone else not gone bonkers on the drug use, would they have improved at their crafts and instruments and somehow gotten better as insane as that seems given how immesely talented they already were.
It always seems like these insanely talented artists die young, or disappear into a haze of drug use and their talent is wasted. and then we are left wondering how they could have gotten better, bonham, or hendrix for example. One guy that seems to have went through hell, and then gotten jawdroppingly better in terms of musical ability would be frusciante.
With page, it seems like the drug use permanently lessened his skills. Dont get me wrong, if Led Zep was to tour, i'd happily go see them, and Page's guitar skills that I saw in This Might Get Loud, prove the guy can still play damn good, but its not the same Jimmy as 1973. Back then he was doing stuff no one in the world other than Hendrix could have done. He's my pick for 2nd best of all time, but it just seems like he isnt the same. Maybe thats age, but I think the drugs also played a huge part in the diminishing of his skills
did Zep drop off? Even though I like Physical Graffiti and Prescence, it seemed like post 1974 or so, the bands quality seriously dropped off. Page was into serious drug use, and most likely all the other members were into it too. Bonham died and they released their 2 least successful and least loved albums, and also in 1977 Plants son was killed. So, it seemed like the mid to late 70's were devastating for the band.
It seems just from my own viewing of DVD's of their performances , that multiple disc one called Led Zeppelin, the Led Zeppelin of 1973 at MSG or even earlier, theres that great earlier performance at Albert Hall in 70, they just sounded so raw, and jimmy played that insane version of White Summer. Anyways, watching the clips of their 1975 and 77 shows, it seemed like they had dropped off. Most noticeably in terms of Jimmy.
Ive always wondered what would have happened if: Bonham hadnt of died, and Plants son hadnt of been killed. Would they have remained a band ala the Stones, still making records even in 2012?
Or had Jimmy and everyone else not gone bonkers on the drug use, would they have improved at their crafts and instruments and somehow gotten better as insane as that seems given how immesely talented they already were.
It always seems like these insanely talented artists die young, or disappear into a haze of drug use and their talent is wasted. and then we are left wondering how they could have gotten better, bonham, or hendrix for example. One guy that seems to have went through hell, and then gotten jawdroppingly better in terms of musical ability would be frusciante.
With page, it seems like the drug use permanently lessened his skills. Dont get me wrong, if Led Zep was to tour, i'd happily go see them, and Page's guitar skills that I saw in This Might Get Loud, prove the guy can still play damn good, but its not the same Jimmy as 1973. Back then he was doing stuff no one in the world other than Hendrix could have done. He's my pick for 2nd best of all time, but it just seems like he isnt the same. Maybe thats age, but I think the drugs also played a huge part in the diminishing of his skills
Once Page started taking heroin in '76, his playing got really sloppy. Obviously the Jimmy of "It Might Get Loud" is different than Jimmy of 1973, or 1975 for that matter. 30+ years. Age definitely has something to do with it. Have you seen/heard "Celebration Day"?
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
did Zep drop off? Even though I like Physical Graffiti and Prescence, it seemed like post 1974 or so, the bands quality seriously dropped off. Page was into serious drug use, and most likely all the other members were into it too. Bonham died and they released their 2 least successful and least loved albums, and also in 1977 Plants son was killed. So, it seemed like the mid to late 70's were devastating for the band.
It seems just from my own viewing of DVD's of their performances , that multiple disc one called Led Zeppelin, the Led Zeppelin of 1973 at MSG or even earlier, theres that great earlier performance at Albert Hall in 70, they just sounded so raw, and jimmy played that insane version of White Summer. Anyways, watching the clips of their 1975 and 77 shows, it seemed like they had dropped off. Most noticeably in terms of Jimmy.
Ive always wondered what would have happened if: Bonham hadnt of died, and Plants son hadnt of been killed. Would they have remained a band ala the Stones, still making records even in 2012?
Or had Jimmy and everyone else not gone bonkers on the drug use, would they have improved at their crafts and instruments and somehow gotten better as insane as that seems given how immesely talented they already were.
It always seems like these insanely talented artists die young, or disappear into a haze of drug use and their talent is wasted. and then we are left wondering how they could have gotten better, bonham, or hendrix for example. One guy that seems to have went through hell, and then gotten jawdroppingly better in terms of musical ability would be frusciante.
With page, it seems like the drug use permanently lessened his skills. Dont get me wrong, if Led Zep was to tour, i'd happily go see them, and Page's guitar skills that I saw in This Might Get Loud, prove the guy can still play damn good, but its not the same Jimmy as 1973. Back then he was doing stuff no one in the world other than Hendrix could have done. He's my pick for 2nd best of all time, but it just seems like he isnt the same. Maybe thats age, but I think the drugs also played a huge part in the diminishing of his skills
Once Page started taking heroin in '76, his playing got really sloppy. Obviously the Jimmy of "It Might Get Loud" is different than Jimmy of 1973, or 1975 for that matter. 30+ years. Age definitely has something to do with it. Have you seen/heard "Celebration Day"?
I havent seen or heard celebration day. I mentioned yesterday, im sort of leery of reunited bands, especially those with original members missing or replaced. But, sure, age I think you are right has alot to do with it. I know Plants vocals in 2012 are alot different than they used to be, and he cant hit those insane high notes he used to be able to. I dont know if he was serious but plant was saying they touched up his vocals at the end of Kashmir for the Celebration DVD and album, because he couldnt hit the notes.
Also, ive always wondered, when you are that good, as any of the 4 members were, how do you not let the praise go to your head. Even now, in 2012, Page, plant and John paul jones have to know what Zep has meant to everyone, and that they are considered one of the most important bands of all time, and that individually each member is considered among the best of all time. But I think to be a good artist you have to be able to tune it all out.
How do you deal with that? Paul mccartney or Dylan I think must deal with the same thing. People that talented, are you aware of people viewing you as the best ever. Are you conscious of it?
When they were making music in the 70's, do you think bonzo, page, plant and john paul jones knew they were that good? Did plant know he had in his band one of the greatest guitarists ever? Did John Paul Jones know they had Bonzo, one of the greatest drummers ever?
did Zep drop off? Even though I like Physical Graffiti and Prescence, it seemed like post 1974 or so, the bands quality seriously dropped off. Page was into serious drug use, and most likely all the other members were into it too. Bonham died and they released their 2 least successful and least loved albums, and also in 1977 Plants son was killed. So, it seemed like the mid to late 70's were devastating for the band.
It seems just from my own viewing of DVD's of their performances , that multiple disc one called Led Zeppelin, the Led Zeppelin of 1973 at MSG or even earlier, theres that great earlier performance at Albert Hall in 70, they just sounded so raw, and jimmy played that insane version of White Summer. Anyways, watching the clips of their 1975 and 77 shows, it seemed like they had dropped off. Most noticeably in terms of Jimmy.
Ive always wondered what would have happened if: Bonham hadnt of died, and Plants son hadnt of been killed. Would they have remained a band ala the Stones, still making records even in 2012?
Or had Jimmy and everyone else not gone bonkers on the drug use, would they have improved at their crafts and instruments and somehow gotten better as insane as that seems given how immesely talented they already were.
It always seems like these insanely talented artists die young, or disappear into a haze of drug use and their talent is wasted. and then we are left wondering how they could have gotten better, bonham, or hendrix for example. One guy that seems to have went through hell, and then gotten jawdroppingly better in terms of musical ability would be frusciante.
With page, it seems like the drug use permanently lessened his skills. Dont get me wrong, if Led Zep was to tour, i'd happily go see them, and Page's guitar skills that I saw in This Might Get Loud, prove the guy can still play damn good, but its not the same Jimmy as 1973. Back then he was doing stuff no one in the world other than Hendrix could have done. He's my pick for 2nd best of all time, but it just seems like he isnt the same. Maybe thats age, but I think the drugs also played a huge part in the diminishing of his skills
Once Page started taking heroin in '76, his playing got really sloppy. Obviously the Jimmy of "It Might Get Loud" is different than Jimmy of 1973, or 1975 for that matter. 30+ years. Age definitely has something to do with it. Have you seen/heard "Celebration Day"?
I havent seen or heard celebration day. I mentioned yesterday, im sort of leery of reunited bands, especially those with original members missing or replaced. But, sure, age I think you are right has alot to do with it. I know Plants vocals in 2012 are alot different than they used to be, and he cant hit those insane high notes he used to be able to. I dont know if he was serious but plant was saying they touched up his vocals at the end of Kashmir for the Celebration DVD and album, because he couldnt hit the notes.
Also, ive always wondered, when you are that good, as any of the 4 members were, how do you not let the praise go to your head. Even now, in 2012, Page, plant and John paul jones have to know what Zep has meant to everyone, and that they are considered one of the most important bands of all time, and that individually each member is considered among the best of all time. But I think to be a good artist you have to be able to tune it all out.
How do you deal with that? Paul mccartney or Dylan I think must deal with the same thing. People that talented, are you aware of people viewing you as the best ever. Are you conscious of it?
When they were making music in the 70's, do you think bonzo, page, plant and john paul jones knew they were that good? Did plant know he had in his band one of the greatest guitarists ever? Did John Paul Jones know they had Bonzo, one of the greatest drummers ever?
I'm sure they knew, but probably didn't say anything. I know the three of them today say those first rehearsals in '68 were magical and knew they had something.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
nice, ive been enjoying the 73 version from Song Remains. Just completely insane how good these guys were.
I know. It's unbelievable. Someone posted the full version from SRTS on YouTube. Started watching it last night. I'll eventually watch it in the next coming days.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I regards to Page's playing.. The smack definitely hampered it in 77, but I don't think it had a permanent effect. The Knebworth shows and most of the shows on the 80 European tour he's in fine form.
I think after Zep's breakup he set his guitar down and got really deep into heroine in the 80s. I've even heard stories that instead of being stolen, he was actually trading all those bootlegs and studio outtakes from the vault for smack. He never really fully bounced back from that and Zeppelin's breakup. I think he could've, but with the way he talks about Zeppelin, it seems like he's still heartbroken over their demise. Without Zeppelin he never had a reason to get back to top form.
I know Page was doped up in the 77 tour, but the Destroyer bootleg is still pretty awesome. That was the only tour that they managed to perform Ten Years Gone, and it's just majestic.
The Beatles' "batting average" depends on how you feel about songs like "You Know My Name" and some of the, maybe, less serious stuff they did. Part of the reason Zep's is so high is precisely their short career and that they didn't have any extended period of decline, although I am not a fan of most of Coda as well.
I really don't think they declined later on. Even if Page slipped, it just showed the talents of Jones & Plant to fill in the void. Ok, maybe Carouselambra was a miss, but In Through the Out Door would be considered a landmark album by any other band.
Zep's albums were typically 40 minutes or so, very typical of the time. They happened to be 7 to 10 songs since many of their songs were very long. Another album you brought up that I have no desire to argue about is about 30 minutes, which is typical of an EP for its time of 2011.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I regards to Page's playing.. The smack definitely hampered it in 77, but I don't think it had a permanent effect. The Knebworth shows and most of the shows on the 80 European tour he's in fine form.
I think after Zep's breakup he set his guitar down and got really deep into heroine in the 80s. I've even heard stories that instead of being stolen, he was actually trading all those bootlegs and studio outtakes from the vault for smack. He never really fully bounced back from that and Zeppelin's breakup. I think he could've, but with the way he talks about Zeppelin, it seems like he's still heartbroken over their demise. Without Zeppelin he never had a reason to get back to top form.
do you think plant blames him for zep breaking up? Obviously Bonzo's death had a great deal to do with it, but I dont get the sense Bonzo prior to his death, or Jonsey, or Plant were deeply into heavy drugs, or at least not to the point where it was effecting their playing. Page it seems got addicted and that had pretty disasterous effects. Jimmys drug use was in my view the reason Prescence, In through the out door, and coda are the least loved albums of the Zep catalogue.
theres that rumor that page was drunk or on drugs at live aid, and at the 40th anniversary show. I watched a clip of their live aid set last night and while page could still play, his skills were noticeably rusty or worse for wear. It sort of felt like he was playing for the sake of creating noise, as opposed to the shows in say 73, when even the solos seemed to have a purpose.
I sort of get the sense Plant blames page for all this. Watching some of the press conferences they did for Celebration, they were asked about it, or it was touched on, and Plant mentioned something about disasterous shows at live aid and the 40th anniversary. It seemed like he was in a round about way referring to jimmy.
I definitely sense what you are saying though. Plant seems to have moved on from Zep when they broke up. He;s obviously proud of what he accomplished but I think any chance of them reuniting permanently as a band died when Coda was released. Page on the other hand does seem alot more proud of Zep and alot more friendly to the idea of a reunited band. There does seem to still be some resentment between page and plant though. And my feeling is that its drug related.
Did plant and jonesy just not get into hard drugs, or were they able to control it better? For all the real excess and rock star behavior the band as a whole displayed during the 70's, I never got the sense those 2 were into the heavy stuff
The Beatles' "batting average" depends on how you feel about songs like "You Know My Name" and some of the, maybe, less serious stuff they did. Part of the reason Zep's is so high is precisely their short career and that they didn't have any extended period of decline, although I am not a fan of most of Coda as well.
I really don't think they declined later on. Even if Page slipped, it just showed the talents of Jones & Plant to fill in the void. Ok, maybe Carouselambra was a miss, but In Through the Out Door would be considered a landmark album by any other band.
Zep's albums were typically 40 minutes or so, very typical of the time. They happened to be 7 to 10 songs since many of their songs were very long. Another album you brought up that I have no desire to argue about is about 30 minutes, which is typical of an EP for its time of 2011.
Love the batting average analogy that's been mentioned here a few times. I don't think the Beatles early stuff is bad or anything, but some of it seems pretty safe. They were a great leadoff hitter. Zeppelin, from the get go were hitting for average and power. A high percentage of their songs aren't just good, they're great. Through the first 7 albums there are, at most, 2 songs per album that would be classified as good or less. Presence and In Through the Out Door probably aren't quite as strong, song for song, but still miles ahead of the competition.
One could argue that Zeppelin would generally have around 8 songs per album, and that doesn't seem like much, but there's not many albums from any age with the amount of musical ideas that a Zeppelin album generally had.
Did plant and jonesy just not get into hard drugs, or were they able to control it better? For all the real excess and rock star behavior the band as a whole displayed during the 70's, I never got the sense those 2 were into the heavy stuff
I think Jones started dabbling more and was able to catch himself before he got too deep. Pretty sure that's one of the reasons he was gonna quit Zeppelin around 75, and become headmaster at some music school.
I think they both managed to keep their noses relatively clean, but things could've got pretty bad and still seemed like casual habits compared to Page and Bonzo. I'm sure they had their fun, but they seem to be pretty straight compared to the other 2.
The Beatles' "batting average" depends on how you feel about songs like "You Know My Name" and some of the, maybe, less serious stuff they did. Part of the reason Zep's is so high is precisely their short career and that they didn't have any extended period of decline, although I am not a fan of most of Coda as well.
I really don't think they declined later on. Even if Page slipped, it just showed the talents of Jones & Plant to fill in the void. Ok, maybe Carouselambra was a miss, but In Through the Out Door would be considered a landmark album by any other band.
Zep's albums were typically 40 minutes or so, very typical of the time. They happened to be 7 to 10 songs since many of their songs were very long. Another album you brought up that I have no desire to argue about is about 30 minutes, which is typical of an EP for its time of 2011.
Love the batting average analogy that's been mentioned here a few times. I don't think the Beatles early stuff is bad or anything, but some of it seems pretty safe. They were a great leadoff hitter. Zeppelin, from the get go were hitting for average and power. A high percentage of their songs aren't just good, they're great. Through the first 7 albums there are, at most, 2 songs per album that would be classified as good or less. Presence and In Through the Out Door probably aren't quite as strong, song for song, but still miles ahead of the competition.
One could argue that Zeppelin would generally have around 8 songs per album, and that doesn't seem like much, but there's not many albums from any age with the amount of musical ideas that a Zeppelin album generally had.
So you're saying that Zep dominated in slugging percentage? I like it.
Some early Beatles albums - say Beatles for Sale - were pretty hit or miss.
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Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I think Jones started dabbling more and was able to catch himself before he got too deep. Pretty sure that's one of the reasons he was gonna quit Zeppelin around 75, and become headmaster at some music school.
But not before that New Orleans incident so enjoyably documented in Royal Orleans...
"Kissing whiskers left and right!"
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
do you think plant blames him for zep breaking up? Obviously Bonzo's death had a great deal to do with it, but I dont get the sense Bonzo prior to his death, or Jonsey, or Plant were deeply into heavy drugs, or at least not to the point where it was effecting their playing. Page it seems got addicted and that had pretty disasterous effects. Jimmys drug use was in my view the reason Prescence, In through the out door, and coda are the least loved albums of the Zep catalogue.
theres that rumor that page was drunk or on drugs at live aid, and at the 40th anniversary show. I watched a clip of their live aid set last night and while page could still play, his skills were noticeably rusty or worse for wear. It sort of felt like he was playing for the sake of creating noise, as opposed to the shows in say 73, when even the solos seemed to have a purpose.
I sort of get the sense Plant blames page for all this. Watching some of the press conferences they did for Celebration, they were asked about it, or it was touched on, and Plant mentioned something about disasterous shows at live aid and the 40th anniversary. It seemed like he was in a round about way referring to jimmy.
I definitely sense what you are saying though. Plant seems to have moved on from Zep when they broke up. He;s obviously proud of what he accomplished but I think any chance of them reuniting permanently as a band died when Coda was released. Page on the other hand does seem alot more proud of Zep and alot more friendly to the idea of a reunited band. There does seem to still be some resentment between page and plant though. And my feeling is that its drug related.
I don't think so. I think it might have more to do with the fact that Page won't come out and say "no reunion" even when Plant has been pretty adamant for all 30 years that a full Zep reunion won' happen. I think Plant's a little hypocritical here, b/c he's never been afraid to call Jimmy when he thought it could help his career.
Also, I think Bonzo and Jones were there for Plant when his son died and that's when Page was at his worse with his addiction.
I, and alot of hardcore Zep fans, think Presence is Jimmy Page's album. Tons of guitar and such a raw sound to it all. Page is just all over it, and he was holed up in the studio for about a month from first session through the mixing stage perfecting it.
In Through the Out Door still has plenty of Page, but for sure his habits likely took away from any possible contributions he could've made. Still applied some nice touches but it's definitely a JPJ driven album. Some of Bonzo's best stuff, too.
Coda is what it is. And leftovers album. I think you put any of those songs on the albums for which they were recorded and they're viewed in a much more positive light. I think some of the lyrics need refined, but there are some great ideas. Love Poor Tom, Ozone Baby, and Darlene.
Most of their reunions were pretty atrocious, but it's hard to blame that solely on Page. For Live Aid they played with a drummer that they'd barely rehearsed with and for the 40th Anniversary Jason Bonham was about as out of it as Page. That being said, Page's drugging and drinking was at it's worst in the early to mid 80s and there are quite a few shabby performances in circulation that are testament to that. There are also a few that show how his fingers could still move when he wasn't wasted.
Comments
Yes! That is fucking awesome!
I do think its fair, because of what the magazine that RS originally was, and the magazine it is in 2012. The general consensus obviously is that Led Zep is one of the greatest bands to have ever existed. And RS knows thats how people feel.
I also think its fair because lets face it, Pitchfork isnt the only site or music media outlet that could be considered snobby or pandering or whatever.
The original writers of RS in 1967/1968 onwards they werent old people. Fricke and who else may have been kids then, but the writers for RS at the time they were reviewing the Zep albums, it was a countercultural magazine for hippies and promoting hippie bands and politics. By definition the readers and writers involved would have been young. Lets not forget Cameron Crowe was a kid back then writing for RS giving them glowing reviews but the magazine at large panned them
It would have been like if George, Paul and Ringo had played a show as The Beatles before George died. Sure it would have been awesome, and I'd love to see Paul and Ringo play together today, or solo for that matter, but it wont be the same without John and George.
I grew up enthralled and altered by grunge. But, I couldnt have cared less about AIC reuniting and really didnt enjoy the most recent album. Its not AIC without Layne.
Here's the link to the full interview. I'm sorry I couldn't get the time, it wouldn't play on my computer. http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/3522
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I have trouble keeping it out of the Top 1. RS lists are, um, special.
Anyone who gave Zep albums poor reviews back then, and Grammy people who never nominated them for anything, must really feel like idiots now.
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Great post. And their career was rather short too.
They made about 80 or so songs, and their "batting average" - probably at least 70 really good songs out of those 80, so a batting average of about .875. :!: Tell me any other band even approaching that.
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"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Excellent point. Didnt every single one of their albums have a tracklist of only 8 songs? Its funny because people moan about short albums nowadays, the last Radiohead album for example, but in reality, most if not all of the beatles albums were 30 minutes or so total, and Zeps albums only had 8 songs. And as you point out, for Zep nearly every song they did was amazing. That said Ive never been too keen on In through the out door, or coda. But every single other album they did is essential.
What about the beatles for batting average? 12 studio albums, 217 songs. There are very few beatles songs that are bad. Anyone read that 1980 interview Lennon did where it seemed like the interviewer went through nearly every single beatles song and asked John did opinion of it. and nearly every song Lennon said it was a throwaway and rubbish song. Strange how artists can see their work as being trash, and then the larger public view it as essentially Biblical scripture
I love the shorter albums
It seems just from my own viewing of DVD's of their performances , that multiple disc one called Led Zeppelin, the Led Zeppelin of 1973 at MSG or even earlier, theres that great earlier performance at Albert Hall in 70, they just sounded so raw, and jimmy played that insane version of White Summer. Anyways, watching the clips of their 1975 and 77 shows, it seemed like they had dropped off. Most noticeably in terms of Jimmy.
Ive always wondered what would have happened if: Bonham hadnt of died, and Plants son hadnt of been killed. Would they have remained a band ala the Stones, still making records even in 2012?
Or had Jimmy and everyone else not gone bonkers on the drug use, would they have improved at their crafts and instruments and somehow gotten better as insane as that seems given how immesely talented they already were.
It always seems like these insanely talented artists die young, or disappear into a haze of drug use and their talent is wasted. and then we are left wondering how they could have gotten better, bonham, or hendrix for example. One guy that seems to have went through hell, and then gotten jawdroppingly better in terms of musical ability would be frusciante.
With page, it seems like the drug use permanently lessened his skills. Dont get me wrong, if Led Zep was to tour, i'd happily go see them, and Page's guitar skills that I saw in This Might Get Loud, prove the guy can still play damn good, but its not the same Jimmy as 1973. Back then he was doing stuff no one in the world other than Hendrix could have done. He's my pick for 2nd best of all time, but it just seems like he isnt the same. Maybe thats age, but I think the drugs also played a huge part in the diminishing of his skills
Great questions!
The only problem....
We'll never know what could have been.
:corn:
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I havent seen or heard celebration day. I mentioned yesterday, im sort of leery of reunited bands, especially those with original members missing or replaced. But, sure, age I think you are right has alot to do with it. I know Plants vocals in 2012 are alot different than they used to be, and he cant hit those insane high notes he used to be able to. I dont know if he was serious but plant was saying they touched up his vocals at the end of Kashmir for the Celebration DVD and album, because he couldnt hit the notes.
Also, ive always wondered, when you are that good, as any of the 4 members were, how do you not let the praise go to your head. Even now, in 2012, Page, plant and John paul jones have to know what Zep has meant to everyone, and that they are considered one of the most important bands of all time, and that individually each member is considered among the best of all time. But I think to be a good artist you have to be able to tune it all out.
How do you deal with that? Paul mccartney or Dylan I think must deal with the same thing. People that talented, are you aware of people viewing you as the best ever. Are you conscious of it?
When they were making music in the 70's, do you think bonzo, page, plant and john paul jones knew they were that good? Did plant know he had in his band one of the greatest guitarists ever? Did John Paul Jones know they had Bonzo, one of the greatest drummers ever?
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf2e4QPPxJY
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
nice, ive been enjoying the 73 version from Song Remains. Just completely insane how good these guys were.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I think after Zep's breakup he set his guitar down and got really deep into heroine in the 80s. I've even heard stories that instead of being stolen, he was actually trading all those bootlegs and studio outtakes from the vault for smack. He never really fully bounced back from that and Zeppelin's breakup. I think he could've, but with the way he talks about Zeppelin, it seems like he's still heartbroken over their demise. Without Zeppelin he never had a reason to get back to top form.
I know Page was doped up in the 77 tour, but the Destroyer bootleg is still pretty awesome. That was the only tour that they managed to perform Ten Years Gone, and it's just majestic.
The Beatles' "batting average" depends on how you feel about songs like "You Know My Name" and some of the, maybe, less serious stuff they did. Part of the reason Zep's is so high is precisely their short career and that they didn't have any extended period of decline, although I am not a fan of most of Coda as well.
I really don't think they declined later on. Even if Page slipped, it just showed the talents of Jones & Plant to fill in the void. Ok, maybe Carouselambra was a miss, but In Through the Out Door would be considered a landmark album by any other band.
Zep's albums were typically 40 minutes or so, very typical of the time. They happened to be 7 to 10 songs since many of their songs were very long. Another album you brought up that I have no desire to argue about is about 30 minutes, which is typical of an EP for its time of 2011.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
do you think plant blames him for zep breaking up? Obviously Bonzo's death had a great deal to do with it, but I dont get the sense Bonzo prior to his death, or Jonsey, or Plant were deeply into heavy drugs, or at least not to the point where it was effecting their playing. Page it seems got addicted and that had pretty disasterous effects. Jimmys drug use was in my view the reason Prescence, In through the out door, and coda are the least loved albums of the Zep catalogue.
theres that rumor that page was drunk or on drugs at live aid, and at the 40th anniversary show. I watched a clip of their live aid set last night and while page could still play, his skills were noticeably rusty or worse for wear. It sort of felt like he was playing for the sake of creating noise, as opposed to the shows in say 73, when even the solos seemed to have a purpose.
I sort of get the sense Plant blames page for all this. Watching some of the press conferences they did for Celebration, they were asked about it, or it was touched on, and Plant mentioned something about disasterous shows at live aid and the 40th anniversary. It seemed like he was in a round about way referring to jimmy.
I definitely sense what you are saying though. Plant seems to have moved on from Zep when they broke up. He;s obviously proud of what he accomplished but I think any chance of them reuniting permanently as a band died when Coda was released. Page on the other hand does seem alot more proud of Zep and alot more friendly to the idea of a reunited band. There does seem to still be some resentment between page and plant though. And my feeling is that its drug related.
Love the batting average analogy that's been mentioned here a few times. I don't think the Beatles early stuff is bad or anything, but some of it seems pretty safe. They were a great leadoff hitter. Zeppelin, from the get go were hitting for average and power. A high percentage of their songs aren't just good, they're great. Through the first 7 albums there are, at most, 2 songs per album that would be classified as good or less. Presence and In Through the Out Door probably aren't quite as strong, song for song, but still miles ahead of the competition.
One could argue that Zeppelin would generally have around 8 songs per album, and that doesn't seem like much, but there's not many albums from any age with the amount of musical ideas that a Zeppelin album generally had.
I think Jones started dabbling more and was able to catch himself before he got too deep. Pretty sure that's one of the reasons he was gonna quit Zeppelin around 75, and become headmaster at some music school.
I think they both managed to keep their noses relatively clean, but things could've got pretty bad and still seemed like casual habits compared to Page and Bonzo. I'm sure they had their fun, but they seem to be pretty straight compared to the other 2.
So you're saying that Zep dominated in slugging percentage?
Some early Beatles albums - say Beatles for Sale - were pretty hit or miss.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
But not before that New Orleans incident so enjoyably documented in Royal Orleans...
"Kissing whiskers left and right!"
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I don't think so. I think it might have more to do with the fact that Page won't come out and say "no reunion" even when Plant has been pretty adamant for all 30 years that a full Zep reunion won' happen. I think Plant's a little hypocritical here, b/c he's never been afraid to call Jimmy when he thought it could help his career.
Also, I think Bonzo and Jones were there for Plant when his son died and that's when Page was at his worse with his addiction.
I, and alot of hardcore Zep fans, think Presence is Jimmy Page's album. Tons of guitar and such a raw sound to it all. Page is just all over it, and he was holed up in the studio for about a month from first session through the mixing stage perfecting it.
In Through the Out Door still has plenty of Page, but for sure his habits likely took away from any possible contributions he could've made. Still applied some nice touches but it's definitely a JPJ driven album. Some of Bonzo's best stuff, too.
Coda is what it is. And leftovers album. I think you put any of those songs on the albums for which they were recorded and they're viewed in a much more positive light. I think some of the lyrics need refined, but there are some great ideas. Love Poor Tom, Ozone Baby, and Darlene.
Most of their reunions were pretty atrocious, but it's hard to blame that solely on Page. For Live Aid they played with a drummer that they'd barely rehearsed with and for the 40th Anniversary Jason Bonham was about as out of it as Page. That being said, Page's drugging and drinking was at it's worst in the early to mid 80s and there are quite a few shabby performances in circulation that are testament to that. There are also a few that show how his fingers could still move when he wasn't wasted.