Anyway, many people have now replaced 'God' with a sports team, or even a 'country'. Their whole lives revolve around something that has no direct relation to them whatsoever. Some people just need something to focus their energies on because their lives are otherwise empty and meaningless.
Anyway, many people have now replaced 'God' with a sports team, or even a 'country'. Their whole lives revolve around something that has no direct relation to them whatsoever. Some people just need something to focus their energies on because their lives are otherwise empty and meaningless.
i heart, byrnzie.
Chadwick...are you focusing your energies on Byrnzie???
I don't feel I have a need, or that I'm compelled to believe in God. I just do. Kind of like I know there's oxygen in the air I breathe. I can't see it, but I know it gives me life. I have a deep faith in God, and have had it for as long as I can remember. The weird thing is, is neither of my parents, or really anyone in my family were ever really church goers. I seldom went to church, and was very seldom ever engaged in that part of society. But still I always believed in God without question. Even though now my wife and I go to church regularly, and I absolutely believe in God, and accept Jesus Christ, I find myself vehemently opposed to much of what organized religion tries to push on people. Religion, in my eyes, is the biggest bunch of BS ever. Religion is nothing but man's way of trying to make themselves feel important...to make themselves feel empowered...it's man's way to make themselves feel like they have all the answers...religion is man's bogus way of pushing themselves to be closer to God. Kind of like an annoying person that tries waaaayyy too hard to be your friend. It's also nothing more than man's way of acting on God's behalf in many cases, especially when it comes to being judgmental about things like homosexuality. That's obviously a big one. I just don't see where it's our place to judge.
I guess I just don't have a problem admitting I don't have all the answers, and I feel confident enough in my faith to be cool with that. I don't believe there's anything in Science that dispels God, and I believe that everything, the construction of our universe, the laws of physics, evolution, all of it just screams God to me. So I don't believe because I have some sort of need, I just believe because I can't help but do so.
Just for the record, as far as I'm concerened, you, or anyone else, can feel whatever you want to, but I think there is a logic flaw in the statement I bolded. I would say your "faith" in oxygen is based on the processes of science whereas your faith in god and Christ is not. Any thoughts?
Sorry, I haven't been on in a while, and just now saw your reply to my post.
I guess what I was getting at is, I don't necessarily have to see God to know He is there, just like I don't see the oxygen I breathe into my lungs to know it is there. Yes I realize that scientifically speaking, we can measure the oxygen molecules in the air, and we can even cool oxygen enough until it forms a liquid so that we can visibly see it.
Call me weak minded if you will, but I have an extraordinarily difficult time believing that all of this is a big accident. That's just my belief. I spend a lot of time with nature, growing food, raising animals, keeping honeybees and watching things develop. I believe many Christians and religious folks of various beliefs, have a hard time accepting science, because they think it takes away from God, but I'm the exact opposite. I think the more we learn the more it should draw us closer to God. When you see the delicate intertwined web of circumstances that allow for life, and when you realize how everything works together, even down to the cellular and molecular level, it's an amazing set of universal laws.
People try to dismiss evolution, whereas I absolutely embrace it! I love the thought of life changing, and in most cases improving upon itself. Like I've mentioned before in another thread..."something" causes that change to occur. A honeybee did not always have a stinger, it was an evolutionary change. So what part of the bee decided..."hey these other bees are getting mean, I need a way to defend myself, I think I'll make a stinger". Fast forward a few million years, what made the honeybee say..."wow this stinger works great on other bees, but these mammals keep eating my family, I think I need a barb on this stinger so it will stick in their flesh and keep my hive safe". Something changed the genetic programming within bees. And really when you get down to the core of it, our genetic makeup, our DNA is very similar to computer programming. We didn't go from Windows 3.1 to Windows 7 by magic, someone actually rewrote the code that makes that program. That doesn't necessarily mean the old version was imperfect, it was just adequate for that time period, and as technology progressed new and improved code had to be created. That is how I see evolution.
So I've always been fascinated by the link between God and science. I don't see how science can completely discount the possibility that everything we know was created by God, because there's no way to know for sure, and there are many things that science embraces that are not definitively proven. On the other hand I also think it's ridiculous that so many Christians just completely shrug off science, because they feel it interferes with their belief.
I, too always never understood how difficult it was that many believers couldn't reconcile science or "discovery" as just learning the mechanics of what "god" did. This caused me much consternation in my teens.
I've got one more question for you, though. I know you were specifically talking about evolution but you talked about things needing a cause. So, what caused god?
Post edited by markin ball on
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
To me you appear to me to be threatened and very confusing....
You say to each his own but then speak with contempt... that is contrary.
As are your contradictions on God, know, religion are.
You don't know, yes I got that.
But you are telling me I don't know either and that I can't know from the start of this discussion.
This you believe because you don't know so if you don't I can't either or I guess no one else can.
That seems like you are threatened by the thought that others believe.
No one preaches nor flocking... I was saying I know God... that is all I said. why would that be threatening to you? and how would that be preaching? I speak for myself that I know God.... because I do.
This is not respecting others beliefs ... it is not to each their own as I feel towards you. You are dismissing my belief while searching for yours. I believe you are a very wise person and will find your truth on your path, good luck to you Cosmo.
...
Well, there you go again... on the offensive again.
I'm just saying that a lot of people say and have said, "I Know God". From you to Popes and Priests to Ayatollahs to Preachers on T.V. to Clerics to Pat Robertson to Rev. Fred Phelps to Usama bin Laden. For all I know... you all do know God. But, I still have my doubts.
Why would I ever feel threatened? I mean, I really don't care what you or anyone else feels or says about me or any of my beliefs. My beliefs are my own and I understand that. My beliefs do not apply to anyone else and I don't expect anyone else to believe me.
And yes... that is my assessment. Your belief works for you... GREAT. If you claim to know God and know the Truth about God... GREAT. That is your truth. I'm just saying... if what you are saying is the truth... absolute truth, not relative to you... then, you fall into a very small segment of the population of human history. Moses knew God... as did Jesus. And... well, i guess... you. If the truth is, that you are in the same league as Moses and Jesus... Then, who the Hell do I think i am to question, right?
this is her M.O. you will never get through. you question her beliefs in a non-threatening and respectful way and she talks down and says shit like "you will know god one day like I do". talking from her tower as usual.
it's best just to ignore.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
To me you appear to me to be threatened and very confusing....
You say to each his own but then speak with contempt... that is contrary.
As are your contradictions on God, know, religion are.
You don't know, yes I got that.
But you are telling me I don't know either and that I can't know from the start of this discussion.
This you believe because you don't know so if you don't I can't either or I guess no one else can.
That seems like you are threatened by the thought that others believe.
No one preaches nor flocking... I was saying I know God... that is all I said. why would that be threatening to you? and how would that be preaching? I speak for myself that I know God.... because I do.
This is not respecting others beliefs ... it is not to each their own as I feel towards you. You are dismissing my belief while searching for yours. I believe you are a very wise person and will find your truth on your path, good luck to you Cosmo.
...
Well, there you go again... on the offensive again.
I'm just saying that a lot of people say and have said, "I Know God". From you to Popes and Priests to Ayatollahs to Preachers on T.V. to Clerics to Pat Robertson to Rev. Fred Phelps to Usama bin Laden. For all I know... you all do know God. But, I still have my doubts.
Why would I ever feel threatened? I mean, I really don't care what you or anyone else feels or says about me or any of my beliefs. My beliefs are my own and I understand that. My beliefs do not apply to anyone else and I don't expect anyone else to believe me.
And yes... that is my assessment. Your belief works for you... GREAT. If you claim to know God and know the Truth about God... GREAT. That is your truth. I'm just saying... if what you are saying is the truth... absolute truth, not relative to you... then, you fall into a very small segment of the population of human history. Moses knew God... as did Jesus. And... well, i guess... you. If the truth is, that you are in the same league as Moses and Jesus... Then, who the Hell do I think i am to question, right?
this is her M.O. you will never get through. you question her beliefs in a non-threatening and respectful way and she talks down and says shit like "you will know god one day like I do". talking from her tower as usual.
it's best just to ignore.
good idea you have there, works for me
I would say telling others they can not know God is not being respectful to their beliefs,
not at all.
I can only hope people find what they are in search of or not as I have said before.
I've got one more question for you, though. I know you were specifically talking about evolution but you talked about things needing a cause. So, what caused god?
If I had the answer to this, I wouldn't be sitting here at this computer. There are some things we may never know, and I'm cool with not knowing. I don't have to know everything to solidify my faith, just like I don't have a problem with science discovering things that might shake the foundation of someone else's faith. I can't get my head around God always being, anymore than I can get my head around all of this being an accident. I'm sure there are fellow Christians out there who will spew all sorts of nonsense, presenting it as absolute fact, but they don't know anymore than I do about it.
I've got one more question for you, though. I know you were specifically talking about evolution but you talked about things needing a cause. So, what caused god?
If I had the answer to this, I wouldn't be sitting here at this computer. There are some things we may never know, and I'm cool with not knowing. I don't have to know everything to solidify my faith, just like I don't have a problem with science discovering things that might shake the foundation of someone else's faith. I can't get my head around God always being, anymore than I can get my head around all of this being an accident. I'm sure there are fellow Christians out there who will spew all sorts of nonsense, presenting it as absolute fact, but they don't know anymore than I do about it.
i totally agree that there are some things we may never know. my big question is how do the animals know to develop camouflage.. how does that happen? i understand their need to, i just dont understand how theyre bodies know, you know???
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
good idea you have there, works for me
I would say telling others they can not know God is not being respectful to their beliefs, not at all.
I can only hope people find what they are in search of or not as I have said before.
...
Look... if you believe you are in the extremely exclusive company of Biblical Moses and Jesus Christ... who am I to say otherwise, right? Why would you care what anyone else says or believes? That is my point. You can have your own religion, in where you believe you know God... The Catholic Church can have theirs... the Shi'ite Muslims and the Sunni Muslims and the Westboro Baptist Church can have theirs. Why convince me that yours is the way, when I really don't care which way you choose?
...
P.S. If you are talking about repectful... just a hint... don't talk down to people like they are stupid children. Just a suggestion.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
To the original question, I do not feel a need to believe in God. Basically, I can barely see how someone could NOT believe in God when I look around at the world, universe, our brains, etc. So it's not a need, but rather an observation that God is real.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I've got one more question for you, though. I know you were specifically talking about evolution but you talked about things needing a cause. So, what caused god?
If I had the answer to this, I wouldn't be sitting here at this computer. There are some things we may never know, and I'm cool with not knowing. I don't have to know everything to solidify my faith, just like I don't have a problem with science discovering things that might shake the foundation of someone else's faith. I can't get my head around God always being, anymore than I can get my head around all of this being an accident. I'm sure there are fellow Christians out there who will spew all sorts of nonsense, presenting it as absolute fact, but they don't know anymore than I do about it.
i totally agree that there are some things we may never know. my big question is how do the animals know to develop camouflage.. how does that happen? i understand their need to, i just dont understand how theyre bodies know, you know???
Animals don´t know how to develop camouflage. Evolution which takes place over millions of years as a result will lead to the changes in the animal(in this case camouflage). Natural selection will make the slightly more camouflaged animals ,slightly more likely to survive in order to reproduce and their offspring will have similar attributes which will continue down the line.
To the original question, I do not feel a need to believe in God. Basically, I can barely see how someone could NOT believe in God when I look around at the world, universe, our brains, etc. So it's not a need, but rather an observation that God is real.
...
That a good assessment. God was used to explain the natural world. Ancient civilizations created gods that caused the sun to rise and set, gods that controlled the rain... controlled the waters... governed over the dead. Those things change as Man figured out that the sun doesn't rise and set... we perceive it to rise and set from our vantage point on a spinning sphere, orbiting a star. We no longer need Ra, the Sun god who rides a firey chariot across the sky.
Modern man has not answered all of the questions and has the ability to explain everything in out natural world... or our own existance. We search for answers, knowing that the possiblre answer is, there is no answer.
God ends up being a relatively simple answer to why an innocent 8 year old girl is so brutally murdered and the man (dicator) who ordered the genocide live is a palace. The answer that some will provide is, 'God works in mysterious ways'.
Man needs God to provide some sort of order in a Universe of chaos.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
i totally agree that there are some things we may never know. my big question is how do the animals know to develop camouflage.. how does that happen? i understand their need to, i just dont understand how theyre bodies know, you know???
Animals don´t know how to develop camouflage. Evolution which takes place over millions of years as a result will lead to the changes in the animal(in this case camouflage). Natural selection will make the slightly more camouflaged animals ,slightly more likely to survive in order to reproduce and their offspring will have similar attributes which will continue down the line.
I agree to an extent, but color changes are genetic variations that are bred out. Just like someone might try to use the argument that humans have been getting taller over the last 200 years because of evolution. In actuality, it's just a variation of our genetics that became dominate as taller people became a larger part of the population and produced offspring that were inherently taller. Just like a brown rabbit in a cold region may have mated with a beige rabbit, producing progressively lighter offspring that were able to remain hidden and therefore they were able to survive, until the final variation was white.
When you get in to true evolution, it goes beyond genetic variations, and encompasses actual mutations. Mutations that have specific functions, or mutations that take a function away. Like I used in my example with bees. They didn't always have stingers...so what caused the mutation to form one? What changed the programming within the DNA to produce that appendage that has such a specific function? On top of that, as the mammal population became more and more prevalent, what caused a barbed stinger to be formed? You can't have evolution, true evolution, without intelligence. It's like having a car with no driver...you need someone to guide it and steer it from point A to point B.
I agree to an extent, but color changes are genetic variations that are bred out. Just like someone might try to use the argument that humans have been getting taller over the last 200 years because of evolution. In actuality, it's just a variation of our genetics that became dominate as taller people became a larger part of the population and produced offspring that were inherently taller. Just like a brown rabbit in a cold region may have mated with a beige rabbit, producing progressively lighter offspring that were able to remain hidden and therefore they were able to survive, until the final variation was white.
When you get in to true evolution, it goes beyond genetic variations, and encompasses actual mutations. Mutations that have specific functions, or mutations that take a function away. Like I used in my example with bees. They didn't always have stingers...so what caused the mutation to form one? What changed the programming within the DNA to produce that appendage that has such a specific function? On top of that, as the mammal population became more and more prevalent, what caused a barbed stinger to be formed? You can't have evolution, true evolution, without intelligence. It's like having a car with no driver...you need someone to guide it and steer it from point A to point B.
...
The driving force? Life. Life strives to endure... even in the harshes of conditions and environments, we find life.
Bees developed stingers to defend the hive from the same structure that allows for egg laying. Not all of the bees have stingers... soldiers and workers have stingers, drones do not. Just like the flagella bacterium converted a stinger into a propelling tail.
Camoflage in animal fur is all about survival. A white mouse in a brown field will get eaten by hawks and not pass on his genes... same as the brown mouse forreging in the snow.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
good idea you have there, works for me
I would say telling others they can not know God is not being respectful to their beliefs, not at all.
I can only hope people find what they are in search of or not as I have said before.
...
Look... if you believe you are in the extremely exclusive company of Biblical Moses and Jesus Christ... who am I to say otherwise, right? Why would you care what anyone else says or believes? That is my point. You can have your own religion, in where you believe you know God... The Catholic Church can have theirs... the Shi'ite Muslims and the Sunni Muslims and the Westboro Baptist Church can have theirs. Why convince me that yours is the way, when I really don't care which way you choose?
...
P.S. If you are talking about repectful... just a hint... don't talk down to people like they are stupid children. Just a suggestion.
I do not believe Biblical Moses nor Jesus Christ were anything more than men.
It is you who are claiming them to be more and therefore saying I think I am more
by placing me with them. I think to be rude really, what other reason could
there be?
Please quote me as to where I am trying to convince you of anything more than
I know God. I never implied nor said you should think like me nor follow me. I replied to your challenge... "no one can know God"...that is all
I beg to differ with your statement.
I said to each their own and meant it, it is you who say the same but obviously do not
feel that because there is contempt in your words.
You have said no one can know God yet you are searching.
You have put down religion by saying my words "reek" of religion
yet you are searching for God.
You have said I can not know God but then say I am a religion of one if I do.
You are full of contradictions, I believe because you mask how you really feel
about the subject perhaps being less than honest. You say you do not know yet
your words sound as though you have conclusions.
As I said before I wish you only the best on your search for answers and feel one day you will
find what you seek. And no that is not implying anything.
I do not believe Biblical Moses nor Jesus Christ were anything more than men. It is you who are claiming them to be more and therefore saying I think I am more by placing me with them. I think to be rude really, what other reason couldthere be?Please quote me as to where I am trying to convince you of anything more thanI know God. I never implied nor said you should think like me nor follow me.I replied to your challenge... "no one can know God"...that is allI beg to differ with your statement. I said to each their own and meant it, it is you who say the same but obviously do notfeel that because there is contempt in your words.You have said no one can know God yet you are searching. ou have put down religion by saying my words "reek" of religionyet you are searching for God.You have said I can not know God but then say I am a religion of one if I do.You are full of contradictions, I believe because you mask how you really feelabout the subject perhaps being less than honest. You say you do not know yetyour words sound as though you have conclusions.As I said before I wish you only the best on your search for answers and feel one day you willfind what you seek. And no that is not implying anything.
...
Okay. You know God?
Who is God? Where did God come from? Where did we all come from? What is going to happen to me after I die? What is the meaning of this limited existence? What is the origins of life? If the Big Bang is true... where did all of that matter come from? If the Big Bang isn't true... what was there before?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I do not believe Biblical Moses nor Jesus Christ were anything more than men. It is you who are claiming them to be more and therefore saying I think I am more by placing me with them. I think to be rude really, what other reason couldthere be?Please quote me as to where I am trying to convince you of anything more thanI know God. I never implied nor said you should think like me nor follow me.I replied to your challenge... "no one can know God"...that is allI beg to differ with your statement. I said to each their own and meant it, it is you who say the same but obviously do notfeel that because there is contempt in your words.You have said no one can know God yet you are searching. ou have put down religion by saying my words "reek" of religionyet you are searching for God.You have said I can not know God but then say I am a religion of one if I do.You are full of contradictions, I believe because you mask how you really feelabout the subject perhaps being less than honest. You say you do not know yetyour words sound as though you have conclusions.As I said before I wish you only the best on your search for answers and feel one day you willfind what you seek. And no that is not implying anything.
... Okay. You know God?
Who is God? Where did we all come from? What is going to happen to me after I die? What is the meaning of this limited existence? What is the origins of life?
Thank you for that Cosmos, I'm glad you understand.
Those are your questions ...
none of that matters to me but I said that pages back.
I've had personal questions answered of direct importance to me and my life here.
For me knowing God is enough of an answer to it all, all those questions you list.
Maybe you understand what I mean, maybe not.
But you may need to know those answers.
I won't say ask cause I may get accused of coercing you in a particular direction
and that I am not interested in doing.... your search is your own.
Thank you for that Cosmos, I'm glad you understand. Those are your questions ...
none of that matters to me but I said that pages back.
I've had personal questions answered of direct importance to me and my life hereFor me knowing God is enough of an answer to it all, all those questions you list.Maybe you understand what I mean, maybe not.But you may need to know those answers. I won't say ask cause I may get accused of coercing you in a particular directionand that I am not interested in doing.... your search is your own.
...
So... in other words... you don't know.
Well, that's okay. All it means is that you are a human being... just like the other billions of other human beings that have roam the planet. To believe otherwise would mean that you fall into the company of Moses and Jesus... the other 2 humans that knew God. To do so would mean that you think you are exceptional amongst the billions of living humans today... somehow, more deserving that the rest of us. You are admitting that you are neither a deliverer or a messiah or chosen one. Just another human being.
Welcome back to the human race.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Thank you for that Cosmos, I'm glad you understand. Those are your questions ...
none of that matters to me but I said that pages back.
I've had personal questions answered of direct importance to me and my life hereFor me knowing God is enough of an answer to it all, all those questions you list.Maybe you understand what I mean, maybe not.But you may need to know those answers. I won't say ask cause I may get accused of coercing you in a particular directionand that I am not interested in doing.... your search is your own.
...
So... in other words... you don't know.
Well, that's okay. All it means is that you are a human being... just like the other billions of other human beings that have roam the planet. To believe otherwise would mean that you fall into the company of Moses and Jesus... the other 2 humans that knew God. That you are exceptional amongst the billions of living humans today... somehow, more deserving that the rest of us. You are admitting that you are neither a deliverer or a messiah. Just another human being.
Welcome back to the human race.
Again pretty mean and why Cosmos? Disrespectful too.
I never claimed to be anything other than a human being and yes I know God
I can still be a plain old human being, no super powers here, well maybe one
and know God
My questions/answers also I would hope you would not dismiss...
remember to each their own
This is like our matters of heart discussion :? You take heart as literal
when most understand what is meant by affairs of the heart.
All this hostility is a waste of time and energy on your part,
I really do not understand it if you believe... to each their own.
And if you truly believe no one can know God
I would think it would be futile your search for answers.
Perhaps you are open to the thought of finding your answers in this lifetime
and maybe it is not of importance because you already have made your conclusions.
I will say it has been nice chatting
but I do think we will continue to have problems that stem
from semantics ... this I think we can see emerging.
Also I see you are capable of being disrespectful when I thought otherwise
of you.
Again pretty mean and why Cosmos? Disrespectful too. I never claimed to be anything other than a human being and yes I know GodI can still be a plain old human being, no super powers here, well maybe one and know God
My questions/answers also I would hope you would not dismiss... remember to each their own
This is like our matters of heart discussion :? You take heart as literal when most understand what is meant by affairs of the heart.All this hostility is a waste of time and energy on your part, I really do not understand it if you believe... to each their own.And if you truly believe no one can know God I would think it would be futile your search for answers.Perhaps you are open to the thought of finding your answers in this lifetimeand maybe it is not of importance because you already have made your conclusions.I will say it has been nice chatting but I do think we will continue to have problems that stemfrom semantics ... this I think we can see emerging.Also I see you are capable of being disrespectful when I thought otherwiseof you.
...
Someone PM'd me and warned me of the Victim Card you were going to pull... They also were freightening accurate on how you would close out this discussion. I assurred them that I would be able to engage you in a meaningful discussion that would not result in this. I was wrong. Now, I owe someone case of beer (or equivilent).
That said... you never gave any answers, so there were no answers for me to dismiss.
I have no problem with your belief the you know God and it is your truth. I have said this throughout this discussion. I don't think you really think you are in the same company as Moses or Jesus... (And to explain this so you don't have a fit again... If what you are saying is true: Then, Moses knew God. Jesus knew God. That's it. Until, Pandora knows God. Therefore, Moses, Jesus and Pandora are the only humans to know God).
You are just one of a couple of billion of us who want to make a connection with a greater force. You have found it in your belief... which is what it is... belief. The belief that you know God.
All I'm saying is I am looking for the truth... not belief.
...
Now... if you'll excuse me... I have to see if i can buy someone one of those Zombie T-Shirts.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Again pretty mean and why Cosmos? Disrespectful too. I never claimed to be anything other than a human being and yes I know GodI can still be a plain old human being, no super powers here, well maybe one and know God
My questions/answers also I would hope you would not dismiss... remember to each their own
This is like our matters of heart discussion :? You take heart as literal when most understand what is meant by affairs of the heart.All this hostility is a waste of time and energy on your part, I really do not understand it if you believe... to each their own.And if you truly believe no one can know God I would think it would be futile your search for answers.Perhaps you are open to the thought of finding your answers in this lifetimeand maybe it is not of importance because you already have made your conclusions.I will say it has been nice chatting but I do think we will continue to have problems that stemfrom semantics ... this I think we can see emerging.Also I see you are capable of being disrespectful when I thought otherwiseof you.
...
Someone PM'd me and warned me of the Victim Card you were going to pull... They also were freightening accurate on how you would close out this discussion. I assurred them that I would be able to engage you in a meaningful discussion that would not result in this. I was wrong. Now, I owe someone case of beer (or equivilent).
That said... you never gave any answers, so there were no answers for me to dismiss.
I have no problem with your belief the you know God and it is your truth. I have said this throughout this discussion. I don't think you really think you are in the same company as Moses or Jesus... (And to explain this so you don't have a fit again... If what you are saying is true: Then, Moses knew God. Jesus knew God. That's it. Until, Pandora knows God. Therefore, Moses, Jesus and Pandora are the only humans to know God).
You are just one of a couple of billion of us who want to make a connection with a greater force. You have found it in your belief... which is what it is... belief. The belief that you know God.
All I'm saying is I am looking for the truth... not belief.
...
Now... if you'll excuse me... I have to see if i can buy someone one of those Zombie T-Shirts.
Semantics again and rudeness.
You know it is more than wrong.... it is cruel and hurtful to call a person a victim.
They may have been raised a victim for all you or anyone else may know.
They may have been victimized as a child.
But I would not expect some people to even have the heart to think of that in advance.
The abusers always play that card ... they blame the victim for their own nastiness.
It is how they justify what they do.
Good day ... oh ... you would be wise to always bet against me
Semantics again and rudeness.
You know it is more than wrong.... it is cruel and hurtful to call a person a victim.
They may have been raised a victim for all you or anyone else may know.
They may have been victimized as a child.
But I would not expect some peopler to even have the heart to think of that in advance.
The abusers always play that card ... they blame the victim for their own nastiness.
It is how they justify what they do.
Good day ... oh ... you would be wise to always bet against me
...
So... does this mean you are saying you are in the same group as Moses and Jesus... or not?
...
And thanx for the tip. I was betting that you would be a rational human, not a drama queen that would try to paint me as an evil bully. I take your advice the next time.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Semantics again and rudeness.
You know it is more than wrong.... it is cruel and hurtful to call a person a victim.
They may have been raised a victim for all you or anyone else may know.
They may have been victimized as a child.
But I would not expect some peopler to even have the heart to think of that in advance.
The abusers always play that card ... they blame the victim for their own nastiness.
It is how they justify what they do.
Good day ... oh ... you would be wise to always bet against me
...
So... does this mean you are saying you are in the same group as Moses and Jesus... or not?
...
And thanx for the tip. I was betting that you would be a rational human, not a drama queen that would try to paint me as an evil bully. I take your advice the next time.
You have hidden behind being open minded, searching for truth and to each their own
and then contradict it all and have been cruel and disrespectful....
but I am cool with all that.
I guess that is you... I can accept that. All kinds of people.
I don't think I called you an evil bully though
cause that is not what I think ...
Not sure where I was the Drama Queen perhaps you could quote me
so I can use that in the future
You have hidden behind being open minded, searching for truth and to each their own
and then contradict it all and have been cruel and disrespectful.... but I am cool with all that.
I guess that is you... I can accept that. All kinds of people.
I don't think I called you an evil bully though
cause that is not what I think ...
Not sure where I was the Drama Queen perhaps you could quote me
so I can use that in the future
I've always kind of wanted to be one of those
...
Let's see... I'm 'mean and disrespectful'... just because I don't take the claim, "I Know God" as the absolute truth.
...
Okay... then I guess I owe you an apology. And an apology to those others who have said, "I Know God":
Usama bin Laden, Jerry Falwell, Mutada al Sadr, Pat Robertson, Saddam Hussein, David Koresh, Rev. Fred Phelps, Benny Hinn, Ayatollah Khomeni, Jim and Tammy Baker, Charles Manson and that homeless guy on Fairfax that I gave 5 dollars to. I'm sorry... you all know God because you say it is so. Please tell Him that Cosmo has some questions for Him. He can reach me at.. oh, yeah... He's God... He knows where I am.
...
P.S. Drama Queen example:
"Semantics again and rudeness.
You know it is more than wrong.... it is cruel and hurtful to call a person a victim.
They may have been raised a victim for all you or anyone else may know.
They may have been victimized as a child.
But I would not expect some peopler to even have the heart to think of that in advance.
The abusers always play that card ... they blame the victim for their own nastiness.
It is how they justify what they do.
Good day ... oh ... you would be wise to always bet against me"
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You have hidden behind being open minded, searching for truth and to each their own
and then contradict it all and have been cruel and disrespectful.... but I am cool with all that.
I guess that is you... I can accept that. All kinds of people.
I don't think I called you an evil bully though
cause that is not what I think ...
Not sure where I was the Drama Queen perhaps you could quote me
so I can use that in the future
I've always kind of wanted to be one of those
...
Let's see... I'm 'mean and disrespectful'... just because I don't take the claim, "I Know God" as the absolute truth.
...
Okay... then I guess I owe you an apology. And an apology to those others who have said, "I Know God":
Usama bin Laden, Jerry Falwell, Mutada al Sadr, Pat Robertson, Saddam Hussein, David Koresh, Rev. Fred Phelps, Benny Hinn, Ayatollah Khomeni, Jim and Tammy Baker, Charles Manson and that homeless guy on Fairfax that I gave 5 dollars to. I'm sorry... you all know God because you say it is so. Please tell Him that Cosmo has some questions for Him. He can reach me at.. oh, yeah... He's God... He knows where I am.
...
P.S. Drama Queen example: "Semantics again and rudeness.
You know it is more than wrong.... it is cruel and hurtful to call a person a victim.
They may have been raised a victim for all you or anyone else may know.
They may have been victimized as a child.
But I would not expect some peopler to even have the heart to think of that in advance.
The abusers always play that card ... they blame the victim for their own nastiness.
It is how they justify what they do.
Good day ... oh ... you would be wise to always bet against me"
thats a drama queen? ... no that comes from the heart of a victim
totally open honest and all truth
we've had trouble with the heart thing
I do not expect you to understand
abusers often don't even realize
they are abusive to another it is the way they interact,
disrespectful, harsh, unkind, abrupt... mean.
We will agree to disagree that anyone can know God
you say they can't, I say they can and perhaps we can be at peace with that
thats a drama queen? ... no that comes from the heart of a victim
totally open honest and all truth we've had trouble with the heart thin I do not expect you to understand
abusers often don't even realize they are abusive to another it is the way they interact, disrespectful, harsh, unkind, abrupt... mean.
We will agree to disagree that anyone can know God
you say they can't, I say they can and perhaps we can be at peace with that sounds like a plan
...
Do you understand the terms 'Drama Queen' and 'Victim Card'?
A Drama Queen is someone who creates drama where drama does not exist. Like in a civil discussion about the existance or non-existance of God, pulling things like past abuse... out.. of... well, for lack of a better term, out of her ass to create an effect of melodrama.
The Victim Card is when someone gets flustered in the discussion and claims they are being victimized in the discussion. The other party was not being mean and disrespectful... but, calling the other person those things to make it appear that he was picking on you... when, in fact, he was being civil and stating opinions. You try to equate me as your abuser by linking the adjectives, disrespectful and mean. You are playing the part of the victim in the discussion.
...
Still... I stand by the perception that belief is not necessarily knowledge nor truth.
Reason: If I take your claim at face value and the absolute truth, I would have to take bin Laden's claim at the same face value.
It doesn't mean your faith doesn't work for you... and bin Laden's for him.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I think I'll opt out of this particular 'debate' for fear of losing my patience.
:think:
...
Wow. This has got to be a first... Byrnzie is speechless!
...
And yeah... I don't know what it looks like from where you're sitting... but, the best way I can explain it... it is like trying to order a breakfast burrito at muffler repair shop on the moon.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I think I'll opt out of this particular 'debate' for fear of losing my patience.
:think:
...
Wow. This has got to be a first... Byrnzie is speechless!
...
And yeah... I don't know what it looks like from where you're sitting... but, the best way I can explain it... it is like trying to order a breakfast burrito at muffler repair shop on the moon.
I think I'll opt out of this particular 'debate' for fear of losing my patience.
:think:
...
Wow. This has got to be a first... Byrnzie is speechless!
...
And yeah... I don't know what it looks like from where you're sitting... but, the best way I can explain it... it is like trying to order a breakfast burrito at muffler repair shop on the moon.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I, too always never understood how difficult it was that many believers couldn't reconcile science or "discovery" as just learning the mechanics of what "god" did. This caused me much consternation in my teens.
I've got one more question for you, though. I know you were specifically talking about evolution but you talked about things needing a cause. So, what caused god?
"With our thoughts we make the world"
this is her M.O. you will never get through. you question her beliefs in a non-threatening and respectful way and she talks down and says shit like "you will know god one day like I do". talking from her tower as usual.
it's best just to ignore.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I would say telling others they can not know God is not being respectful to their beliefs,
not at all.
I can only hope people find what they are in search of or not as I have said before.
If I had the answer to this, I wouldn't be sitting here at this computer.
i totally agree that there are some things we may never know. my big question is how do the animals know to develop camouflage.. how does that happen? i understand their need to, i just dont understand how theyre bodies know, you know???
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Look... if you believe you are in the extremely exclusive company of Biblical Moses and Jesus Christ... who am I to say otherwise, right? Why would you care what anyone else says or believes? That is my point. You can have your own religion, in where you believe you know God... The Catholic Church can have theirs... the Shi'ite Muslims and the Sunni Muslims and the Westboro Baptist Church can have theirs. Why convince me that yours is the way, when I really don't care which way you choose?
...
P.S. If you are talking about repectful... just a hint... don't talk down to people like they are stupid children. Just a suggestion.
Hail, Hail!!!
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Animals don´t know how to develop camouflage. Evolution which takes place over millions of years as a result will lead to the changes in the animal(in this case camouflage). Natural selection will make the slightly more camouflaged animals ,slightly more likely to survive in order to reproduce and their offspring will have similar attributes which will continue down the line.
That a good assessment. God was used to explain the natural world. Ancient civilizations created gods that caused the sun to rise and set, gods that controlled the rain... controlled the waters... governed over the dead. Those things change as Man figured out that the sun doesn't rise and set... we perceive it to rise and set from our vantage point on a spinning sphere, orbiting a star. We no longer need Ra, the Sun god who rides a firey chariot across the sky.
Modern man has not answered all of the questions and has the ability to explain everything in out natural world... or our own existance. We search for answers, knowing that the possiblre answer is, there is no answer.
God ends up being a relatively simple answer to why an innocent 8 year old girl is so brutally murdered and the man (dicator) who ordered the genocide live is a palace. The answer that some will provide is, 'God works in mysterious ways'.
Man needs God to provide some sort of order in a Universe of chaos.
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree to an extent, but color changes are genetic variations that are bred out. Just like someone might try to use the argument that humans have been getting taller over the last 200 years because of evolution. In actuality, it's just a variation of our genetics that became dominate as taller people became a larger part of the population and produced offspring that were inherently taller. Just like a brown rabbit in a cold region may have mated with a beige rabbit, producing progressively lighter offspring that were able to remain hidden and therefore they were able to survive, until the final variation was white.
When you get in to true evolution, it goes beyond genetic variations, and encompasses actual mutations. Mutations that have specific functions, or mutations that take a function away. Like I used in my example with bees. They didn't always have stingers...so what caused the mutation to form one? What changed the programming within the DNA to produce that appendage that has such a specific function? On top of that, as the mammal population became more and more prevalent, what caused a barbed stinger to be formed? You can't have evolution, true evolution, without intelligence. It's like having a car with no driver...you need someone to guide it and steer it from point A to point B.
The driving force? Life. Life strives to endure... even in the harshes of conditions and environments, we find life.
Bees developed stingers to defend the hive from the same structure that allows for egg laying. Not all of the bees have stingers... soldiers and workers have stingers, drones do not. Just like the flagella bacterium converted a stinger into a propelling tail.
Camoflage in animal fur is all about survival. A white mouse in a brown field will get eaten by hawks and not pass on his genes... same as the brown mouse forreging in the snow.
Hail, Hail!!!
It is you who are claiming them to be more and therefore saying I think I am more
by placing me with them. I think to be rude really, what other reason could
there be?
Please quote me as to where I am trying to convince you of anything more than
I know God. I never implied nor said you should think like me nor follow me.
I replied to your challenge... "no one can know God"...that is all
I beg to differ with your statement.
I said to each their own and meant it, it is you who say the same but obviously do not
feel that because there is contempt in your words.
You have said no one can know God yet you are searching.
You have put down religion by saying my words "reek" of religion
yet you are searching for God.
You have said I can not know God but then say I am a religion of one if I do.
You are full of contradictions, I believe because you mask how you really feel
about the subject perhaps being less than honest. You say you do not know yet
your words sound as though you have conclusions.
As I said before I wish you only the best on your search for answers and feel one day you will
find what you seek. And no that is not implying anything.
Okay. You know God?
Who is God? Where did God come from? Where did we all come from? What is going to happen to me after I die? What is the meaning of this limited existence? What is the origins of life? If the Big Bang is true... where did all of that matter come from? If the Big Bang isn't true... what was there before?
Hail, Hail!!!
Those are your questions ...
none of that matters to me but I said that pages back.
I've had personal questions answered of direct importance to me and my life here.
For me knowing God is enough of an answer to it all, all those questions you list.
Maybe you understand what I mean, maybe not.
But you may need to know those answers.
I won't say ask cause I may get accused of coercing you in a particular direction
and that I am not interested in doing.... your search is your own.
So... in other words... you don't know.
Well, that's okay. All it means is that you are a human being... just like the other billions of other human beings that have roam the planet. To believe otherwise would mean that you fall into the company of Moses and Jesus... the other 2 humans that knew God. To do so would mean that you think you are exceptional amongst the billions of living humans today... somehow, more deserving that the rest of us. You are admitting that you are neither a deliverer or a messiah or chosen one. Just another human being.
Welcome back to the human race.
Hail, Hail!!!
Again pretty mean and why Cosmos? Disrespectful too.
I never claimed to be anything other than a human being and yes I know God
I can still be a plain old human being, no super powers here, well maybe one
and know God
My questions/answers also I would hope you would not dismiss...
remember to each their own
This is like our matters of heart discussion :? You take heart as literal
when most understand what is meant by affairs of the heart.
All this hostility is a waste of time and energy on your part,
I really do not understand it if you believe... to each their own.
And if you truly believe no one can know God
I would think it would be futile your search for answers.
Perhaps you are open to the thought of finding your answers in this lifetime
and maybe it is not of importance because you already have made your conclusions.
I will say it has been nice chatting
but I do think we will continue to have problems that stem
from semantics ... this I think we can see emerging.
Also I see you are capable of being disrespectful when I thought otherwise
of you.
Someone PM'd me and warned me of the Victim Card you were going to pull... They also were freightening accurate on how you would close out this discussion. I assurred them that I would be able to engage you in a meaningful discussion that would not result in this. I was wrong. Now, I owe someone case of beer (or equivilent).
That said... you never gave any answers, so there were no answers for me to dismiss.
I have no problem with your belief the you know God and it is your truth. I have said this throughout this discussion. I don't think you really think you are in the same company as Moses or Jesus... (And to explain this so you don't have a fit again... If what you are saying is true: Then, Moses knew God. Jesus knew God. That's it. Until, Pandora knows God. Therefore, Moses, Jesus and Pandora are the only humans to know God).
You are just one of a couple of billion of us who want to make a connection with a greater force. You have found it in your belief... which is what it is... belief. The belief that you know God.
All I'm saying is I am looking for the truth... not belief.
...
Now... if you'll excuse me... I have to see if i can buy someone one of those Zombie T-Shirts.
Hail, Hail!!!
Semantics again and rudeness.
You know it is more than wrong.... it is cruel and hurtful to call a person a victim.
They may have been raised a victim for all you or anyone else may know.
They may have been victimized as a child.
But I would not expect some people to even have the heart to think of that in advance.
The abusers always play that card ... they blame the victim for their own nastiness.
It is how they justify what they do.
Good day ... oh ... you would be wise to always bet against me
So... does this mean you are saying you are in the same group as Moses and Jesus... or not?
...
And thanx for the tip. I was betting that you would be a rational human, not a drama queen that would try to paint me as an evil bully. I take your advice the next time.
Hail, Hail!!!
You have hidden behind being open minded, searching for truth and to each their own
and then contradict it all and have been cruel and disrespectful....
but I am cool with all that.
I guess that is you... I can accept that. All kinds of people.
I don't think I called you an evil bully though
cause that is not what I think ...
Not sure where I was the Drama Queen perhaps you could quote me
so I can use that in the future
I've always kind of wanted to be one of those
Let's see... I'm 'mean and disrespectful'... just because I don't take the claim, "I Know God" as the absolute truth.
...
Okay... then I guess I owe you an apology. And an apology to those others who have said, "I Know God":
Usama bin Laden, Jerry Falwell, Mutada al Sadr, Pat Robertson, Saddam Hussein, David Koresh, Rev. Fred Phelps, Benny Hinn, Ayatollah Khomeni, Jim and Tammy Baker, Charles Manson and that homeless guy on Fairfax that I gave 5 dollars to. I'm sorry... you all know God because you say it is so. Please tell Him that Cosmo has some questions for Him. He can reach me at.. oh, yeah... He's God... He knows where I am.
...
P.S. Drama Queen example:
"Semantics again and rudeness.
You know it is more than wrong.... it is cruel and hurtful to call a person a victim.
They may have been raised a victim for all you or anyone else may know.
They may have been victimized as a child.
But I would not expect some peopler to even have the heart to think of that in advance.
The abusers always play that card ... they blame the victim for their own nastiness.
It is how they justify what they do.
Good day ... oh ... you would be wise to always bet against me"
Hail, Hail!!!
thats a drama queen? ... no that comes from the heart of a victim
totally open honest and all truth
we've had trouble with the heart thing
I do not expect you to understand
abusers often don't even realize
they are abusive to another it is the way they interact,
disrespectful, harsh, unkind, abrupt... mean.
We will agree to disagree that anyone can know God
you say they can't, I say they can and perhaps we can be at peace with that
sounds like a plan
Do you understand the terms 'Drama Queen' and 'Victim Card'?
A Drama Queen is someone who creates drama where drama does not exist. Like in a civil discussion about the existance or non-existance of God, pulling things like past abuse... out.. of... well, for lack of a better term, out of her ass to create an effect of melodrama.
The Victim Card is when someone gets flustered in the discussion and claims they are being victimized in the discussion. The other party was not being mean and disrespectful... but, calling the other person those things to make it appear that he was picking on you... when, in fact, he was being civil and stating opinions. You try to equate me as your abuser by linking the adjectives, disrespectful and mean. You are playing the part of the victim in the discussion.
...
Still... I stand by the perception that belief is not necessarily knowledge nor truth.
Reason: If I take your claim at face value and the absolute truth, I would have to take bin Laden's claim at the same face value.
It doesn't mean your faith doesn't work for you... and bin Laden's for him.
Hail, Hail!!!
:think:
Wow. This has got to be a first... Byrnzie is speechless!
...
And yeah... I don't know what it looks like from where you're sitting... but, the best way I can explain it... it is like trying to order a breakfast burrito at muffler repair shop on the moon.
Hail, Hail!!!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014