brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
I think it would also be useful to point out that the boomer generation created or greatly expanded some things I assume most of us here, regardless of age, appreciate like the civil rights movement, the feminist movement, handicap rights, gay rights, solar power, computers not to mention music that would open the door and influence bands like Pearl Jam. I don't see the usefulness of bashing a generation of people my age any more than it is useful to use terms like ‘slackers’, ‘whiners’ or ‘doomers’.
But assuming what you say is true, what do you believe has been created by subsequent generations? I don't mean that facetiously. I really would like to believe generations younger that mine are creating something better. And even better yet, maybe we can all work for something better regardless of our generation.
What a hypocrite. You know who these "bad parents" are or who's family they people come from... the Baby Boomer generation. That's right, the generation who were handed everything in a post-WW2 era where their own parents actually created suburbia and then they decided to create things like privatization, corporate culture, consumerism and greed all things to be admired in our society. I don't agree nor like the OWS group, but the more further we get away from the baby boomers, the more we recognize how selfish and self-interested they are and they are the ones causing far more problems in our nation than any group protesting in parks. The baby boomers have created the national debt and security issues we face in our nation, everyone else is just stuck with the results.
I was born in 1951 and this does not sound like an apt description of me or any peers I associate with. I wouldn't be so quick to generalize or condemn.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I think they're a perfect example of the failure of humanity. From birth to death, they encapsulate ideology full of optimism and hope broken down to greed, self-interest and getting too self-involved and comfortable. The progression of hope and change to keep the status quo for yourself and ignore the repercussions for the future.
In terms of what specifically have they created? You can laud the notion of technology, computers and rights/movements, but each has had major detrimental results on our society. We have become so far dependent on technology it is a massive problem that if anything would ever adjust that flow, we'd be screwed. People are not self-sufficient and it has caused a major issue in society and will only get worse once resources become more scarce (which happens as populations continually growing). It's a bad road to go down and will only get worse with time. In terms of rights and movements, I agree they did assist in growing many positive areas, but with that said, it also created the over-psychological analysis of youth and society. It's caused the "pussification" of our nation and it's all based upon the notion of the same rights and movements you're referring too. Everyone's special, everyone is on equal playing field, no winners or losers in life, set up everyone's expectations far away from reality. So albeit, some advances these people may have had good positive intentions, they've also help create a disaster to deal with there after. As for thinking each generation creating something better for them and others, watch the movie Idiocracy sometime, you'll get a glimpse into the future.
I think it would also be useful to point out that the boomer generation created or greatly expanded some things I assume most of us here, regardless of age, appreciate like the civil rights movement, the feminist movement, handicap rights, gay rights, solar power, computers not to mention music that would open the door and influence bands like Pearl Jam. I don't see the usefulness of bashing a generation of people my age any more than it is useful to use terms like ‘slackers’, ‘whiners’ or ‘doomers’.
But assuming what you say is true, what do you believe has been created by subsequent generations? I don't mean that facetiously. I really would like to believe generations younger that mine are creating something better. And even better yet, maybe we can all work for something better regardless of our generation.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Was it a "plant" who slashed a police officer today, too? Were the DC protesters who knocked an old lady down concrete steps just one big group of "plants?" Why is it that when protesters turn violent, people quickly point out conspiracy theories that the violent people are plants sent in to discredit the group but nobody ever suggests that an aggressive cop in a video is a sympathizer of the protesters trying to get them sympathy and nobody ever suggests that what preceded the incident in the video but was conveniently not recorded may shed some light on what really happened such as the "victim" initiating the physicality (such as the video OWS supporters said showed the NYPD attacking them when the full video showed the "victims" raming a steel barricade into the police without any provocation)?
I saw a video of a female protester getting abused/roughed up by some NYPD officers, and all the other OWS protesters around did was scream "shame" "shame" "shame"...
I say shame on the protesters who stood by watching that happen, not trying to stop it. Shame indeed.
it's a PR war now ... attacking the police officer only fuels the opposition ... i wouldn't be surprised if the violence today was started by a plant ... obviously, i could be wrong as i've been to enough of these things to know there are loose cannons everywhere ... but who knows ... obviously any violence swings the PR war to the establishment ... so, not sure how OWS can win if there is any violence ...
I rarely posted in any of these occupy threads, I don't support OWS outright, I also don't want to see any NYPD or any officer hurt in that city or my city or anywhere, why would I want to see officers hurt? If I need help, I'm surely dialing 911.
But this much I just got to say, it does not matter if it is a person with a badge, a gang, a bunch of punks..whatever, Does not matter who they are, if someone is using that kind of force, such brutal force to take on a woman or a man. It is only right to get involved. Not just sing, yea? How easily one kick turns to two, and a kick in leg turns to one in the head, so to my mind anyway...Yes, I say get involved, more protesters than cops. They have no right to treat someone like that.
It could easily of been your own family member who suffers the tip of a billy club or being thrown to the ground, it could even one day be one of us, it has in some cases, and I can assure you that rubber bullets and pepper spray do no differentiate between the violent and the non violent protester.
You think the movement in India against the British was always non violent? or the struggle against apartheid South Africa was just township singing in IsiZulu? and if you or anyone else thinks that the battle for America is not like these other countries, well America, when you look at it, regardless of it's immense good, and high capacity for greatness, it's bloody hands can not be ignored, America supports dictators around the word, they have military bases, hundreds of them, secret prisons, they speak of the rule of law, but when the favor is not on their side, they turn away from that same law.
Who wants violence? Not me, I'm sure not you. But it's not just random violence trying to stop an abuse or an injustice, it is simply the right thing to do, and if they kill me trying, then fine. They will only be killing a man.
But maybe soon, and I hope not, but probability does seem high of someone being seriously injured. Maybe critically, I don't no. Let's hope not, But do you really want to be the person who stood by chanting "shame" or taking photos or just even standing watching while a cop or a group of punks or whatever beats a woman, a man, a child or any other living thing?
and btw, a barricade in this case is the provocation, the riot gear? the tear gas? what do you call that? That is the provocation.
well ... i just feel like sitting here and typing this ...
my girlfriend was down at the protest yesterday ... this is her summary:
there was no violence where she was - except for a couple of protestors going at it which was resolved ... the cops were laid back and easy going ... a lot of them were basically just texting throughout the day ... she did say she felt an energy in the crowd after someone gave a speech and that it made her nervous because that energy can quickly turn into something else ... but it didn't ... she also said that there was basically a lot of support from people in cars, construction workers, shop owners, window washers ...
people are starting to realize that this game is rigged and that they've been getting screwed over for a long time ... some of you may not agree with this form of protest but at least they are doing something about it ... i feel the movement right now is just a bit disjointed without clear leadership and direction ...
and to jason p ... your right in that there are common interests with the tea party but so there are with libertarians and many other folks ... the key is to have everyone see the same picture ...
Barricades and riot gear are not provocation. Barricades were set up to prevent protesters from interfering with other people's ability to travel through those areas and to ensure that businesses in the area were able to operate without their customers being prevented from getting there and to generally ensure safety for everyone. There is no excuse for trying to push that barricade into officers who are standing there and aren't touching you in any way. There was no provocation by those officers.
Riot gear is worn to protect the officers being sent into those situations because they just might encounter some violent people (and some have, such as the officer who was slashed yesterday). What happens when people start throwing things at the police or pushing barricades into them and they have no protective gear? There have to be at least some police in riot gear in the area because if something bad does happen and there's nobody prepared to control it then it puts other people in danger. Would you really suggest that the police wait for a riot to break out before considering ways to control it?
I rarely posted in any of these occupy threads, I don't support OWS outright, I also don't want to see any NYPD or any officer hurt in that city or my city or anywhere, why would I want to see officers hurt? If I need help, I'm surely dialing 911.
But this much I just got to say, it does not matter if it is a person with a badge, a gang, a bunch of punks..whatever, Does not matter who they are, if someone is using that kind of force, such brutal force to take on a woman or a man. It is only right to get involved. Not just sing, yea? How easily one kick turns to two, and a kick in leg turns to one in the head, so to my mind anyway...Yes, I say get involved, more protesters than cops. They have no right to treat someone like that.
It could easily of been your own family member who suffers the tip of a billy club or being thrown to the ground, it could even one day be one of us, it has in some cases, and I can assure you that rubber bullets and pepper spray do no differentiate between the violent and the non violent protester.
You think the movement in India against the British was always non violent? or the struggle against apartheid South Africa was just township singing in IsiZulu? and if you or anyone else thinks that the battle for America is not like these other countries, well America, when you look at it, regardless of it's immense good, and high capacity for greatness, it's bloody hands can not be ignored, America supports dictators around the word, they have military bases, hundreds of them, secret prisons, they speak of the rule of law, but when the favor is not on their side, they turn away from that same law.
Who wants violence? Not me, I'm sure not you. But it's not just random violence trying to stop an abuse or an injustice, it is simply the right thing to do, and if they kill me trying, then fine. They will only be killing a man.
But maybe soon, and I hope not, but probability does seem high of someone being seriously injured. Maybe critically, I don't no. Let's hope not, But do you really want to be the person who stood by chanting "shame" or taking photos or just even standing watching while a cop or a group of punks or whatever beats a woman, a man, a child or any other living thing?
and btw, a barricade in this case is the provocation, the riot gear? the tear gas? what do you call that? That is the provocation.
and to jason p ... your right in that there are common interests with the tea party but so there are with libertarians and many other folks ... the key is to have everyone see the same picture ...
I just think if two groups that are at other ends of the spectrum can form an unholy alliance to address corruption in government, it will grab a lot of attention. Kind of like when Professor Xavier and Magneto have to join forces to take down a common enemy. :ugeek:
Can you imagine how frightened congress would be? Especially when those in the middle see two foes taking on the same issues for the common good of all.
I think the key is coming up with a list of ten demands that both sides can agree with. And also, an agreed course of action would need to be established that spells out the actions that will be taken if the demands are not met.
The biggest issue to overcome is that both sides are still too emotionally tied to each political party. For instance, I was talking with a conservative friend last night and he was stoked about a federal law that would allow concealed hand-gun permits to transfer from state to state. To me, that is expansion of federal control and in direct conflict with Tea Party ideals. I told him although I think it is a good idea, the law would be expanding federal control over the states, which is in direct conflict with the Tea Party's mission statement ... it would be hypocritical to think otherwise. We agreed to disagree and went back to watching college hoops.
I'm still not sure why I still follow politics. It's about as healthy as picking scabs.
I think the key is coming up with a list of ten demands that both sides can agree with. And also, an agreed course of action would need to be established that spells out the actions that will be taken if the demands are not met.
i think they have to go back and step and agree just what the heck the problem is ... sure, they both can point to gov't but that's about where the similarity ends ... i don't think anyone in the tea party attributes any of the problems to the role of corporations ...
I think the key is coming up with a list of ten demands that both sides can agree with. And also, an agreed course of action would need to be established that spells out the actions that will be taken if the demands are not met.
i think they have to go back and step and agree just what the heck the problem is ... sure, they both can point to gov't but that's about where the similarity ends ... i don't think anyone in the tea party attributes any of the problems to the role of corporations ...
The list of demands would need to focus directly on the amount of power that congress has. I'll list a few and see if there is any common ground:
* Term Limits
* Severe restrictions on campaign financing
* NCAA type penalties for lobby interaction. Set rules and enforce penalties
* Balance budget amendment (I know this has become a party battleground, but come on man :geek: )
Again, the list of demands needs to have a broad focus on how much power congress has, and not necessarily the issues they are debating. I know there are smart people out there that are capable of doing this.
The list of demands would need to focus directly on the amount of power that congress has. I'll list a few and see if there is any common ground:
* Term Limits
* Severe restrictions on campaign financing
* NCAA type penalties for lobby interaction. Set rules and enforce penalties
* Balance budget amendment (I know this has become a party battleground, but come on man :geek: )
Again, the list of demands needs to have a broad focus on how much power congress has, and not necessarily the issues they are debating. I know there are smart people out there that are capable of doing this.
i agree with the goals of your demands ... however, history will show that those goals will fall by the way of regulation in that loopholes will always be made available to these groups ... it is these loopholes that highlight the need for OWS ...
we need honest and transparent gov't back ... the problem is how can you trust the gov't to fix itself when they are the problem? ...
and to jason p ... your right in that there are common interests with the tea party but so there are with libertarians and many other folks ... the key is to have everyone see the same picture ...
I just think if two groups that are at other ends of the spectrum can form an unholy alliance to address corruption in government, it will grab a lot of attention. Kind of like when Professor Xavier and Magneto have to join forces to take down a common enemy. :ugeek:
Can you imagine how frightened congress would be? Especially when those in the middle see two foes taking on the same issues for the common good of all.
I think the key is coming up with a list of ten demands that both sides can agree with. And also, an agreed course of action would need to be established that spells out the actions that will be taken if the demands are not met.
The biggest issue to overcome is that both sides are still too emotionally tied to each political party. For instance, I was talking with a conservative friend last night and he was stoked about a federal law that would allow concealed hand-gun permits to transfer from state to state. To me, that is expansion of federal control and in direct conflict with Tea Party ideals. I told him although I think it is a good idea, the law would be expanding federal control over the states, which is in direct conflict with the Tea Party's mission statement ... it would be hypocritical to think otherwise. We agreed to disagree and went back to watching college hoops.
I'm still not sure why I still follow politics. It's about as healthy as picking scabs.
i think the reason the two groups have not joined forces is because their politics are diametrically opposed to each other. the liberal bent of the ows crowd would never allow a movement of libertarians into their ranks and vice versa. one group wants government to work eqally for everyone, while the other views all government as the problem. i admire your vision, but i am just being realistic. i have my vision for how i want this country to be, just like how everyone has their own vision of what they want it to be. i see no other option than blowing up the entire system and starting anew with the people in mind, not imperialism, not corporatism, not predatory capitalism, but people first.
and if you are anything like me Jason, the main reason you continue to follow politics is because you care.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
and if you are anything like me Jason, the main reason you continue to follow politics is because you care.
I hate that I care.
I think the power needs to go back to the people too. I just think the power of the people should be split up 50 ways.
i understand your point of being split up 50 ways. but how would we wage wars without a strong federal government? how would we negotiate treaties and who would maintain foreign alliances without a strong federal government? how would we respond to national disasters in florida and mississippi or texas, or the tornados in joplin, st. louis, and oklahoma without a strong federal government to assist the victims? would you say "ya'll are on your own?" the states have proven that they can be as bankrupt and predatory as the federal government.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
and if you are anything like me Jason, the main reason you continue to follow politics is because you care.
I hate that I care.
I think the power needs to go back to the people too. I just think the power of the people should be split up 50 ways.
i understand your point of being split up 50 ways. but how would we wage wars without a strong federal government? how would we negotiate treaties and who would maintain foreign alliances without a strong federal government? how would we respond to national disasters in florida and mississippi or texas, or the tornados in joplin, st. louis, and oklahoma without a strong federal government to assist the victims? would you say "ya'll are on your own?" the states have proven that they can be as bankrupt and predatory as the federal government.
,
it would be interesting to see which states would assist the other, in time of need. more than likely, it would be blue states helping blue and red helping red. maybe/maybe not.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
i understand your point of being split up 50 ways. but how would we wage wars without a strong federal government? how would we negotiate treaties and who would maintain foreign alliances without a strong federal government? how would we respond to national disasters in florida and mississippi or texas, or the tornados in joplin, st. louis, and oklahoma without a strong federal government to assist the victims?
i understand your point of being split up 50 ways. but how would we wage wars without a strong federal government? how would we negotiate treaties and who would maintain foreign alliances without a strong federal government? how would we respond to national disasters in florida and mississippi or texas, or the tornados in joplin, st. louis, and oklahoma without a strong federal government to assist the victims?
i understand your point of being split up 50 ways. but how would we wage wars without a strong federal government? how would we negotiate treaties and who would maintain foreign alliances without a strong federal government? how would we respond to national disasters in florida and mississippi or texas, or the tornados in joplin, st. louis, and oklahoma without a strong federal government to assist the victims?
Chuck Norris.
The man's a national treasure.
If he's your national treasure, America truly is bankrupt.
So their being evicted for what reasons? Rob Ford wants them out? Right? I guess his approval rating will take more hits ... of course London, Ontario evicted them as well.
They are still occupying a park in Windsor.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
So their being evicted for what reasons? Rob Ford wants them out? Right? I guess his approval rating will take more hits ... of course London, Ontario evicted them as well.
They are still occupying a park in Windsor.
honestly, i think the eviction is a win-win for both sides ... it's been getting cold and it was always going to be hard for it gain significant traction in Canada ... the economic system, although faulty, is simply not as corrupted as it is in the US ... this allows for the movement to show it was a peaceful protest and now it's time to organize in a more substantial and political kind of way ... also, having people drop out and leave the occupation would be the worse thing ...
it was time to give st. james park back to the community and to the businesses surrounding the site ...
So their being evicted for what reasons? Rob Ford wants them out? Right? I guess his approval rating will take more hits ... of course London, Ontario evicted them as well.
They are still occupying a park in Windsor.
honestly, i think the eviction is a win-win for both sides ... it's been getting cold and it was always going to be hard for it gain significant traction in Canada ... the economic system, although faulty, is simply not as corrupted as it is in the US ... this allows for the movement to show it was a peaceful protest and now it's time to organize in a more substantial and political kind of way ... also, having people drop out and leave the occupation would be the worse thing ...
it was time to give st. james park back to the community and to the businesses surrounding the site ...
That's good that it's going to be a win-win...I was especially impressed with the professionalism of the police (unless something happened that I did not hear of).
It sure feels like our political system is just as corrupt ... I myself for quite a few years really don't see a political party I can support.
The economy appears to be worsening in Canada ...
sorry ... you economic system ... yeah that might not be as corrupt ... give it time ... the gap between the haves and have not's is growing.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
That's good that it's going to be a win-win...I was especially impressed with the professionalism of the police (unless something happened that I did not hear of).
It sure feels like our political system is just as corrupt ... I myself for quite a few years really don't see a political party I can support.
The economy appears to be worsening in Canada ...
sorry ... you economic system ... yeah that might not be as corrupt ... give it time ... the gap between the haves and have not's is growing.
oh definitely agree that we aren't far from that but like an executive at my company said the other day ... he said if he lived down there - he would be protesting and he's like a conservative guy here ...
as for the police - they really shit the bed in the G20 ... so, hopefully - they learned something ...
That's good that it's going to be a win-win...I was especially impressed with the professionalism of the police (unless something happened that I did not hear of).
It sure feels like our political system is just as corrupt ... I myself for quite a few years really don't see a political party I can support.
The economy appears to be worsening in Canada ...
sorry ... you economic system ... yeah that might not be as corrupt ... give it time ... the gap between the haves and have not's is growing.
oh definitely agree that we aren't far from that but like an executive at my company said the other day ... he said if he lived down there - he would be protesting and he's like a conservative guy here ...
as for the police - they really shit the bed in the G20 ... so, hopefully - they learned something ...
I agree about the g20...interesting about the executive...they have a host of problems down there...jsut read another thread where a fellow pj fan broke his leg 2 weeks after losing job/health insurance...should make us feel fortunate that we don't have those issue to worry about...however I feel for those that have to face those issue's.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I agree about the g20...interesting about the executive...they have a host of problems down there...jsut read another thread where a fellow pj fan broke his leg 2 weeks after losing job/health insurance...should make us feel fortunate that we don't have those issue to worry about...however I feel for those that have to face those issue's.
yeah ... i read that thread too ... i was always told by our american counterparts that there was always options for people like that ... i keep hearing about people looking for work simply for the health insurance ... :(
I agree about the g20...interesting about the executive...they have a host of problems down there...jsut read another thread where a fellow pj fan broke his leg 2 weeks after losing job/health insurance...should make us feel fortunate that we don't have those issue to worry about...however I feel for those that have to face those issue's.
yeah ... i read that thread too ... i was always told by our american counterparts that there was always options for people like that ... i keep hearing about people looking for work simply for the health insurance ... :(
I have an aunt and cousin who live in Michigan and the only time he's covered is when working...but with his plan he is only covered a certain percentage. That might be alright if your not overly sick, could add up if they have to run a bunch of test. His girlfriend is laid off and developed a back issue and went to the chiropractor first because it's cheaper...so I think your forced to make choice's that aren't always in your best interest! Really sad...imo
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I have an aunt and cousin who live in Michigan and the only time he's covered is when working...but with his plan he is only covered a certain percentage. That might be alright if your not overly sick, could add up if they have to run a bunch of test. His girlfriend is laid off and developed a back issue and went to the chiropractor first because it's cheaper...so I think your forced to make choice's that aren't always in your best interest! Really sad...imo
yeah ... i think the stat is like 2 out of 3 personal bankruptcies in the US is due to medical issues ... and that includes people with supposed insurance ...
Comments
But assuming what you say is true, what do you believe has been created by subsequent generations? I don't mean that facetiously. I really would like to believe generations younger that mine are creating something better. And even better yet, maybe we can all work for something better regardless of our generation.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
In terms of what specifically have they created? You can laud the notion of technology, computers and rights/movements, but each has had major detrimental results on our society. We have become so far dependent on technology it is a massive problem that if anything would ever adjust that flow, we'd be screwed. People are not self-sufficient and it has caused a major issue in society and will only get worse once resources become more scarce (which happens as populations continually growing). It's a bad road to go down and will only get worse with time. In terms of rights and movements, I agree they did assist in growing many positive areas, but with that said, it also created the over-psychological analysis of youth and society. It's caused the "pussification" of our nation and it's all based upon the notion of the same rights and movements you're referring too. Everyone's special, everyone is on equal playing field, no winners or losers in life, set up everyone's expectations far away from reality. So albeit, some advances these people may have had good positive intentions, they've also help create a disaster to deal with there after. As for thinking each generation creating something better for them and others, watch the movie Idiocracy sometime, you'll get a glimpse into the future.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I rarely posted in any of these occupy threads, I don't support OWS outright, I also don't want to see any NYPD or any officer hurt in that city or my city or anywhere, why would I want to see officers hurt? If I need help, I'm surely dialing 911.
But this much I just got to say, it does not matter if it is a person with a badge, a gang, a bunch of punks..whatever, Does not matter who they are, if someone is using that kind of force, such brutal force to take on a woman or a man. It is only right to get involved. Not just sing, yea? How easily one kick turns to two, and a kick in leg turns to one in the head, so to my mind anyway...Yes, I say get involved, more protesters than cops. They have no right to treat someone like that.
It could easily of been your own family member who suffers the tip of a billy club or being thrown to the ground, it could even one day be one of us, it has in some cases, and I can assure you that rubber bullets and pepper spray do no differentiate between the violent and the non violent protester.
You think the movement in India against the British was always non violent? or the struggle against apartheid South Africa was just township singing in IsiZulu? and if you or anyone else thinks that the battle for America is not like these other countries, well America, when you look at it, regardless of it's immense good, and high capacity for greatness, it's bloody hands can not be ignored, America supports dictators around the word, they have military bases, hundreds of them, secret prisons, they speak of the rule of law, but when the favor is not on their side, they turn away from that same law.
Who wants violence? Not me, I'm sure not you. But it's not just random violence trying to stop an abuse or an injustice, it is simply the right thing to do, and if they kill me trying, then fine. They will only be killing a man.
But maybe soon, and I hope not, but probability does seem high of someone being seriously injured. Maybe critically, I don't no. Let's hope not, But do you really want to be the person who stood by chanting "shame" or taking photos or just even standing watching while a cop or a group of punks or whatever beats a woman, a man, a child or any other living thing?
and btw, a barricade in this case is the provocation, the riot gear? the tear gas? what do you call that? That is the provocation.
my girlfriend was down at the protest yesterday ... this is her summary:
there was no violence where she was - except for a couple of protestors going at it which was resolved ... the cops were laid back and easy going ... a lot of them were basically just texting throughout the day ... she did say she felt an energy in the crowd after someone gave a speech and that it made her nervous because that energy can quickly turn into something else ... but it didn't ... she also said that there was basically a lot of support from people in cars, construction workers, shop owners, window washers ...
people are starting to realize that this game is rigged and that they've been getting screwed over for a long time ... some of you may not agree with this form of protest but at least they are doing something about it ... i feel the movement right now is just a bit disjointed without clear leadership and direction ...
and to jason p ... your right in that there are common interests with the tea party but so there are with libertarians and many other folks ... the key is to have everyone see the same picture ...
Riot gear is worn to protect the officers being sent into those situations because they just might encounter some violent people (and some have, such as the officer who was slashed yesterday). What happens when people start throwing things at the police or pushing barricades into them and they have no protective gear? There have to be at least some police in riot gear in the area because if something bad does happen and there's nobody prepared to control it then it puts other people in danger. Would you really suggest that the police wait for a riot to break out before considering ways to control it?
Can you imagine how frightened congress would be? Especially when those in the middle see two foes taking on the same issues for the common good of all.
I think the key is coming up with a list of ten demands that both sides can agree with. And also, an agreed course of action would need to be established that spells out the actions that will be taken if the demands are not met.
The biggest issue to overcome is that both sides are still too emotionally tied to each political party. For instance, I was talking with a conservative friend last night and he was stoked about a federal law that would allow concealed hand-gun permits to transfer from state to state. To me, that is expansion of federal control and in direct conflict with Tea Party ideals. I told him although I think it is a good idea, the law would be expanding federal control over the states, which is in direct conflict with the Tea Party's mission statement ... it would be hypocritical to think otherwise. We agreed to disagree and went back to watching college hoops.
I'm still not sure why I still follow politics. It's about as healthy as picking scabs.
i think they have to go back and step and agree just what the heck the problem is ... sure, they both can point to gov't but that's about where the similarity ends ... i don't think anyone in the tea party attributes any of the problems to the role of corporations ...
* Term Limits
* Severe restrictions on campaign financing
* NCAA type penalties for lobby interaction. Set rules and enforce penalties
* Balance budget amendment (I know this has become a party battleground, but come on man :geek: )
Again, the list of demands needs to have a broad focus on how much power congress has, and not necessarily the issues they are debating. I know there are smart people out there that are capable of doing this.
i agree with the goals of your demands ... however, history will show that those goals will fall by the way of regulation in that loopholes will always be made available to these groups ... it is these loopholes that highlight the need for OWS ...
we need honest and transparent gov't back ... the problem is how can you trust the gov't to fix itself when they are the problem? ...
and if you are anything like me Jason, the main reason you continue to follow politics is because you care.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I think the power needs to go back to the people too. I just think the power of the people should be split up 50 ways.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
it would be interesting to see which states would assist the other, in time of need. more than likely, it would be blue states helping blue and red helping red. maybe/maybe not.
The man's a national treasure.
If he's your national treasure, America truly is bankrupt.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/23 ... y-toronto/
Looks like occupy Canada is starting to come to end...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eJitJjV7BI
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
They are still occupying a park in Windsor.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
honestly, i think the eviction is a win-win for both sides ... it's been getting cold and it was always going to be hard for it gain significant traction in Canada ... the economic system, although faulty, is simply not as corrupted as it is in the US ... this allows for the movement to show it was a peaceful protest and now it's time to organize in a more substantial and political kind of way ... also, having people drop out and leave the occupation would be the worse thing ...
it was time to give st. james park back to the community and to the businesses surrounding the site ...
That's good that it's going to be a win-win...I was especially impressed with the professionalism of the police (unless something happened that I did not hear of).
It sure feels like our political system is just as corrupt ... I myself for quite a few years really don't see a political party I can support.
The economy appears to be worsening in Canada ...
sorry ... you economic system ... yeah that might not be as corrupt ... give it time ... the gap between the haves and have not's is growing.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
oh definitely agree that we aren't far from that but like an executive at my company said the other day ... he said if he lived down there - he would be protesting and he's like a conservative guy here ...
as for the police - they really shit the bed in the G20 ... so, hopefully - they learned something ...
I agree about the g20...interesting about the executive...they have a host of problems down there...jsut read another thread where a fellow pj fan broke his leg 2 weeks after losing job/health insurance...should make us feel fortunate that we don't have those issue to worry about...however I feel for those that have to face those issue's.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
yeah ... i read that thread too ... i was always told by our american counterparts that there was always options for people like that ... i keep hearing about people looking for work simply for the health insurance ... :(
I have an aunt and cousin who live in Michigan and the only time he's covered is when working...but with his plan he is only covered a certain percentage. That might be alright if your not overly sick, could add up if they have to run a bunch of test. His girlfriend is laid off and developed a back issue and went to the chiropractor first because it's cheaper...so I think your forced to make choice's that aren't always in your best interest! Really sad...imo
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
yeah ... i think the stat is like 2 out of 3 personal bankruptcies in the US is due to medical issues ... and that includes people with supposed insurance ...