PJ 20 Book - Where's Abbruzzese?

DewieCox

CJMST3K wrote:

I agree with your first point. I think the re-recordings were not drum related.... but its been a while since I listened.

With Foo Fighters, I really liked how they allowed their earlier drummer to say his piece about things. I think Grohl being a drummer wanted to allow him a voice, since he did have a place in their history.

I didn't mean how he handled the movie. I'm talkin how Dave went down to LA or wherever and was redoing the drums on his own. And how he was good friends/idolized Franz Stahl and all he could do was give him a phone call.

love-boat-captain

Dave A is a legend. He made his mark on Vs and Vitalogy, simple as that. Imagine how No Code and Yield would have turned out if not for Jack Irons. Same applies.

I was and still am disappointed in the lack of acknowledgment for Dave A and all the other drummers in fact. Dave K hardly gets a mention either and he played on Ten.

I just think it would be nice to not sweep it aside. A good documentary has warts and all, not just the nice bits, that's a showcase, and they don't need to sell PJ to me or any of you guys cause we already love them.

The talk or thought of re-recording any parts off Vs or Vitalogy is crazy talk. We'd just end up with an inferior product because they are perfect. George Lucas has already ruined one of my loves.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

JTH wrote:

Well, Boom did co-write "Love Boat Captain" ...

yes, unfortunately, he did. he also makes Crazy Mary a church song live.

animus

maybe PJ30 or PJ40 will be more dramatic

abhijeet

There's plenty of mentions and quotes *about* Dave in the book, I haven't seen the movie yet. There's just nothing *from* Dave in the book.

1. He's #1 on the list of contributors. It's alphabetical by last name, but hey, he's there.
2. The chapter on Vs talks about him quite a bit.
3. The 1994 chapter and the Vitalogy chapter talk about the circumstances leading up to his firing. It came down to a personality clash between him and Eddie, and Dave had to fall on the sword.

Maybe he didn't want to participate or the band didn't want him to? I don't know the answer, but there's no airing of dirty laundry, mudslinging at Dave or an attempts to airbrush him out of PJ history in the book.

Personally, I loved his work on Vs and Ten. Till Matt came along, he was easily the best drummer to ever play for the band.

rival.

love-boat-captain wrote:

Dave A is a legend. He made his mark on Vs and Vitalogy, simple as that. Imagine how No Code and Yield would have turned out if not for Jack Irons. Same applies.

I was and still am disappointed in the lack of acknowledgment for Dave A and all the other drummers in fact. Dave K hardly gets a mention either and he played on Ten.

I just think it would be nice to not sweep it aside. A good documentary has warts and all, not just the nice bits, that's a showcase, and they don't need to sell PJ to me or any of you guys cause we already love them.

The talk or thought of re-recording any parts off Vs or Vitalogy is crazy talk. We'd just end up with an inferior product because they are perfect. George Lucas has already ruined one of my loves.

all of this. well said man!

Hugh Freaking Dillon

animus wrote:

maybe PJ30 or PJ40 will be more dramatic

no one's looking for drama. I don't give a shit about why he left the band. Just more pictures/quotes/etc from the era he was in. that's all.

to have the picture on MTV unplugged DVD of just the four of them was just plain weird.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

abhijeet wrote:

There's plenty of mentions and quotes *about* Dave in the book, I haven't seen the movie yet. There's just nothing *from* Dave in the book.

1. He's #1 on the list of contributors. It's alphabetical by last name, but hey, he's there.
2. The chapter on Vs talks about him quite a bit.
3. The 1994 chapter and the Vitalogy chapter talk about the circumstances leading up to his firing. It came down to a personality clash between him and Eddie, and Dave had to fall on the sword.

Maybe he didn't want to participate or the band didn't want him to? I don't know the answer, but there's no airing of dirty laundry, mudslinging at Dave or an attempts to airbrush him out of PJ history in the book.

Personally, I loved his work on Vs and Ten. Till Matt came along, he was easily the best drummer to ever play for the band.

I haven't gotten that far in the book yet, so I guess I am wrong. I now look forward to it. I was speaking from past projects involving that era and the movie, so I wrongly assumed he got the same treatment in the book.

dadagibberish1

DewieCox wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

I agree with your first point. I think the re-recordings were not drum related.... but its been a while since I listened.

With Foo Fighters, I really liked how they allowed their earlier drummer to say his piece about things. I think Grohl being a drummer wanted to allow him a voice, since he did have a place in their history.

I didn't mean how he handled the movie. I'm talkin how Dave went down to LA or wherever and was redoing the drums on his own. And how he was good friends/idolized Franz Stahl and all he could do was give him a phone call.

This is actually one of the reasons I really enjoyed the Foo doc. It's very much warts and all. I think Grohl has a reputation as the nicest guy in rock and I think he can be, but I think he's the leader of the band and holds some power over the other guys.
As a fan, I knew the history of Will and Franz, but to hear it from their perspective was kind of eye opening. Will is an awesome drummer (listen to any Sunny Day Real Estate) but for whatever reason he didn't work for the band and Franz probably helped write one of their best songs (A320) but didn't work with the rest of the band.
Again, I haven't seen the doc, but one reason I'd love to hear about the drummer situation is because of how different a band can sound with a new drummer. To sort of hear that this is dismissed is unfortunate. As all of you have said, this band wouldn't sound the same if they hadn't explored a more mystical sound with Jack Irons and Matt's contributed some really strong songs to their later albums.

TJ25487

My opinion is that we all know what happened to Dave. The book 5 Against 1 details it quite a bit and with Eddie in not such a good light. The PJ20 book details it as well sufficiently, and because he was the only band member actually fired to my knowledge, well then they don't want a bunch of his footage used. Just reference him and move on to the ten thousand other aspects of their lives at that time that are noteworthy.

christo1980

regarding the first post...
it was probably intentional.
and i love all pj albums differently, and matt is my favourite drummer, no offense to dave.
so there. :wave:

Deadlogic

SolarWorld wrote:

lowbudgetlush wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

If Dave was/is so awesome, what has he done of note besides the Pear Jam records? Not much... Must be because he was so awesome...

Anything that Ed is not a part of basically tanks so this argument doesn't hold any water with me.

Three fish
Wellwater conspiracy
Brad
Tres mtns.
The rockfords

All of these have been pretty unsuccessful. I wouldn't call the members in these bands as unimportant.

Which further supports my point that Dave's drumming has about as much to do with ten and vs success as Jeff strumming bass chords... Ed is what propelled this band to the stratosphere, not Dave's drumming. With that point established it is not a big deal they dont mention the guy in PJ20.

/end of story. Move on.

P.S. You should read the whole thread before jumping in with a comment...

You clearly have no understanding of band dynamics, or chemistry - which is why a very select few become truly great bands.

The simple fact is, that almost perfect blend of Ed, Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave had 'something' that resonated with people on a global scale. Some could argue that it was in a way they've never captured since.

Thats not to knock anything they've done as a band since, but it's definitely something to consider.

Of course Eddie was a huge reason for the bands popularity (and is to this day), but never forget the platform he was afforded by the rest of the band at that time - and that includes Dave whether you like him or not.

Without the band, theres a very good chance he'd still be working in a petrol station and playing with bands the standard of Bad Radio.

mauichick

Whatever sympathy I had for Dave in the situation evaporates reading this. Pretty shitty response to his carelessness. Havnt read the book yet but i did read 5against one. Thx for transcribing Emna.

-Emma- wrote:

coco butter wrote:

What's the story behind this special guitar to Ed that he broke? I've been following the band for almost 20 years and never heard this one. Please indulge...

Here we go, I typed it for you

Page 148 of PJ20 book...

Brendan O'Brien: I remember the very last day I saw Dave. He was at the studio in Atlanta, and we were taking a break from Vitalogy. Eddie was having a hard time figuring out how to get his guitar sound going. I knew he was a big Pete Townshend fan so I went and found him a beautiful gold-top '69 Les Paul. He came to the studio on one of the last nights we were there, and I said, "Hey, I got you something." He didn't know what to say. He really was about to cry. He and I at that time did not have a great relationship, but this was a really nice moment between us.

The next day, I see engineer Nick DiDia shaking his head. He goes, "Dude, you have to figure something out." Dave was running around because he had to leave early to do something. He says to me, "I knocked this guitar over. I'll pay to have it fixed." He'd knocked the headstock off. It was a complete and total accident. I remember saying "Maybe you should hang around and talk to Eddie about it." But he's like "I've gotta go." Eddie came later, and I showed him the guitar. The look on his face was one of such contempt. I'll never forget it. I felt so bad. Right after that, Kurt died. We were supposed to get back together and finish, but we took a long break. They didn't tour. Everyone was thrown for a loop. During that time, Dave was fired. I don't know that Eddie can ever really look at that guitar the same way. I had it repaired for him beautifully, but it was sort of a metaphor for their relationship. And that was not lost on Nick and I.

JTH

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JTH wrote:

Well, Boom did co-write "Love Boat Captain" ...

yes, unfortunately, he did. he also makes Crazy Mary a church song live.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

JTH wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JTH wrote:

Well, Boom did co-write "Love Boat Captain" ...

yes, unfortunately, he did. he also makes Crazy Mary a church song live.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

to me, it is. I don't like LBC nor Crazy Mary with Boom. I have nothing against keyboards, in the right context, I'm just not a fan of what Boom does with PJ's music. I thought it was great the way it was.

BOOOOOOOOOM
are they saying Boom, or boo?
(I was saying "boo")

abhijeet

mauichick wrote:

Whatever sympathy I had for Dave in the situation evaporates reading this. Pretty shitty response to his carelessness. Havnt read the book yet but i did read 5against one. Thx for transcribing Emna.

-Emma- wrote:

coco butter wrote:

What's the story behind this special guitar to Ed that he broke? I've been following the band for almost 20 years and never heard this one. Please indulge...

Here we go, I typed it for you

Page 148 of PJ20 book...

Brendan O'Brien: I remember the very last day I saw Dave. He was at the studio in Atlanta, and we were taking a break from Vitalogy. Eddie was having a hard time figuring out how to get his guitar sound going. I knew he was a big Pete Townshend fan so I went and found him a beautiful gold-top '69 Les Paul. He came to the studio on one of the last nights we were there, and I said, "Hey, I got you something." He didn't know what to say. He really was about to cry. He and I at that time did not have a great relationship, but this was a really nice moment between us.

The next day, I see engineer Nick DiDia shaking his head. He goes, "Dude, you have to figure something out." Dave was running around because he had to leave early to do something. He says to me, "I knocked this guitar over. I'll pay to have it fixed." He'd knocked the headstock off. It was a complete and total accident. I remember saying "Maybe you should hang around and talk to Eddie about it." But he's like "I've gotta go." Eddie came later, and I showed him the guitar. The look on his face was one of such contempt. I'll never forget it. I felt so bad. Right after that, Kurt died. We were supposed to get back together and finish, but we took a long break. They didn't tour. Everyone was thrown for a loop. During that time, Dave was fired. I don't know that Eddie can ever really look at that guitar the same way. I had it repaired for him beautifully, but it was sort of a metaphor for their relationship. And that was not lost on Nick and I.

Before you go and completely trash Dave based on that anecdote, maybe you should consider that at that point his and Eddie's relationship was completely broken. Sure, he behaved like an ass... but when you're already on the wrong side of the undisputed band leader, you don't really want to make things even worse.

ckoke

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

animus wrote:

maybe PJ30 or PJ40 will be more dramatic

no one's looking for drama. I don't give a shit about why he left the band. Just more pictures/quotes/etc from the era he was in. that's all.

to have the picture on MTV unplugged DVD of just the four of them was just plain weird.

I agree. We have the Ten Deluxe-set, and it seems to us that they took great pains to phase Dave Abbruzzesse out of the pictures for the Unplugged DVD; that to me is very disconcerting.

And for those folks on here who don't respect the overall songwriting process and/or the "Eddie is God" folks who said that Dave A. was not involved in any of the songwriting are just plain ignorant. A song consist of the two parts: the music (instruments) and the lyrics.

For VS, as stated by Brendan O'Brien the five members collectively (Eddie, Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave) wrote the tunes together, as a unit. And for Vitalogy, the album for the mostpart was written in between sound-checks during the VS. tour, once again as a unit. Only Betterman (Vedder), Nothingman (Ament), and Satan's Bed (Gossard), and that drum-loop tune with Irons.

Dave was one of the five who contributed to songs on both VS. and Vitalogy, or he would not be in the credits.

Coincidence or not, the PJ sound has never been the same since that 91-94 period.

Folks, whether you like him or not, Dave A. was a contributor to that high precision organic sound they had at the time when they were at their highest peak of the bands success from 91-94. And at this point in time, I, along with others on here believe that Dave A. (and Dave K. as well) deserved to be acknowledged in the PJ20 book, and not just as a footnote.

abhijeet

ckoke wrote:

Folks, whether you like him or not, Dave A. was a contributor to that high precision organic sound they had at the time when they were at their highest peak of the bands success from 91-94. And at this point in time, I, along with others on here believe that Dave A. (and Dave K. as well) deserved to be acknowledged in the PJ20 book, and not just as a footnote.

I totally agree, it would have been good (and fitting) to have some input from him on the book.

mauichick

Whos completely trashn him? a shitty response is a shitty response even if they were bffs at the time. Id like to hear more on why bob and ev werent getting a long so well. Glad they got through it.

abhijeet wrote:

Before you go and completely trash Dave based on that anecdote, maybe you should consider that at that point his and Eddie's relationship was completely broken. Sure, he behaved like an ass... but when you're already on the wrong side of the undisputed band leader, you don't really want to make things even worse.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

ckoke wrote:

Dave was one of the five who contributed to songs on both VS. and Vitalogy, or he would not be in the credits.

I agree with your points, but this one, I believe the reason he's in the credits is because at the time the band agreed, no matter who wrote the song, the whole band got credit. kinda like Lennon and McCartney.