Do people realize that this film was not produced by 10c?
This film was in theaters a week or less in most places.
All of these people should get paid, and production costs recovered.
Production Companies
Tremolo Productions
Vinyl Films
Distributors
Abramorama (2011) (USA) (theatrical)
Boid (2011) (Japan) (theatrical)
Culture-Ville (2011) (Japan) (theatrical)
Films We Like (2011) (Canada) (theatrical)
Golden Village Pictures (2011) (Singapore) (theatrical)
Echo Bridge Entertainment (2011) (Non-USA) (TV)
Zon Lusomundo Audiovisuais (2011) (Portugal) (all media)
Other Companies
Carroll, Guido & Groffman legal services
Curtis Talent Management band management
Dean Chealey additional legal
Donaldson & Callif additional legal
Elliot J. Groffman, Esq. legal services
Flood, Bumstead, McCready, McCarthy production accounting
Lightpress post-production
Old School Cameras archive
Paul S. Gutman, Esq. legal services
Skotstudio photo montage and credits
Stokes Lawrence, P.S. additional legal
Vandenberg Communications band publicity
I'm sure most people realize that 10c didn't make/release the movie.
I'd think the limited screen times are part of the business plan too. I'm sure they figured out the best way to maximize the profits. A movie like this isn't gonna make millions week after week. There's a select group of people interested in seeing it who are gonna try like hell to get to the limited showings.
Why don't the standard dvd and bluray have ridiculous prices if "all these people should get paid"? Hmm, could it have something to do with the fact that PJ camp knows that the hardcore fans will pay about anything to get that extra material and the cool packaging?
Do people realize that this film was not produced by 10c?
This film was in theaters a week or less in most places.
All of these people should get paid, and production costs recovered.
Production Companies
Tremolo Productions
Vinyl Films
Distributors
Abramorama (2011) (USA) (theatrical)
Boid (2011) (Japan) (theatrical)
Culture-Ville (2011) (Japan) (theatrical)
Films We Like (2011) (Canada) (theatrical)
Golden Village Pictures (2011) (Singapore) (theatrical)
Echo Bridge Entertainment (2011) (Non-USA) (TV)
Zon Lusomundo Audiovisuais (2011) (Portugal) (all media)
Other Companies
Carroll, Guido & Groffman legal services
Curtis Talent Management band management
Dean Chealey additional legal
Donaldson & Callif additional legal
Elliot J. Groffman, Esq. legal services
Flood, Bumstead, McCready, McCarthy production accounting
Lightpress post-production
Old School Cameras archive
Paul S. Gutman, Esq. legal services
Skotstudio photo montage and credits
Stokes Lawrence, P.S. additional legal
Vandenberg Communications band publicity
Let me ask you this, why is the single disc DVD only $14.99? If the price for the 3 Disc DVD and BluRay really is necessary to recoup the costs, are they just taking a bath on the single disc price and passing on the burden of recovering the costs to 10C members with a Deluxe Edition? That doesn't seem right either.
There are many concert/rockumentaries released on the home video market (or just regular films for that matter), that never have any theatrical release and don't cost this much. I keep hearing that the price is justified because of the limited theatrical release, but I don't buy that. I was just reading that as of Sept. 25th, PJ20's Domestic Box Office is $382,791. I'm sure once you add in worldwide box office numbers, PPV sales, and whatever else, then PJ20 is making some decent money before it gets to the home video market.
And I'm sure many people on that list are already on salary/retainer by some of the parties involved. Curtis Talent Management for example, that's Kelly Curtis.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
Do people realize that this film was not produced by 10c?
This film was in theaters a week or less in most places.
All of these people should get paid, and production costs recovered.
Production Companies
Tremolo Productions
Vinyl Films
Distributors
Abramorama (2011) (USA) (theatrical)
Boid (2011) (Japan) (theatrical)
Culture-Ville (2011) (Japan) (theatrical)
Films We Like (2011) (Canada) (theatrical)
Golden Village Pictures (2011) (Singapore) (theatrical)
Echo Bridge Entertainment (2011) (Non-USA) (TV)
Zon Lusomundo Audiovisuais (2011) (Portugal) (all media)
Other Companies
Carroll, Guido & Groffman legal services
Curtis Talent Management band management
Dean Chealey additional legal
Donaldson & Callif additional legal
Elliot J. Groffman, Esq. legal services
Flood, Bumstead, McCready, McCarthy production accounting
Lightpress post-production
Old School Cameras archive
Paul S. Gutman, Esq. legal services
Skotstudio photo montage and credits
Stokes Lawrence, P.S. additional legal
Vandenberg Communications band publicity
I'm sure most people realize that 10c didn't make/release the movie.
I'd think the limited screen times are part of the business plan too. I'm sure they figured out the best way to maximize the profits. A movie like this isn't gonna make millions week after week. There's a select group of people interested in seeing it who are gonna try like hell to get to the limited showings.
Why don't the standard dvd and bluray have ridiculous prices if "all these people should get paid"? Hmm, could it have something to do with the fact that PJ camp knows that the hardcore fans will pay about anything to get that extra material and the cool packaging?
Of course, I don't think it's all that high though (Sure, its higher than I'd like to pay).
Limited Edition means it is not mass-produced for global distribution. For sale only through 10c.
They can't be getting a very good printing/production/distribution rate from the manufacturer.
Unlike something that is mass produced in Much, Much bigger quantities... buy more = cheaper manufacture costs.
Example.
The new Star wars Blu-ray release is around $80-$90 (yes I know there are more discs, but the actual discs that they put the content on are mere pennies when dealing in huge volumes, so I am comparing the packaging which is more or less the same size).
I am sure LucasFilms LTD gets great deals on mass production and distribution (I'm guessing an enormous difference per unit vs the PJ20 film)
Yet it costs considerably more.
Seems simple to me.
Another thing to note, the PJ20 backpack was sold at $10 cheaper than the non PJ20 models by the same manufacturer.
They easily could have charged more, and it still would have sold out.
AND... I bet they knew that.
EV Solo Boston 6/16/11
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East Troy 9/4/11
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Amsterdam 6/27/12
Wrigley Field 7/19-20/13
Worcester, MA 10/15/13
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Hartford, CT 10/25/13
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Denver, CO 10/22/14 Fenway 2016 #1
Fenway 2016 #2 Fenway 2018 #1 Fenway 2018 #2
Unlike something that is mass produced in Much, Much bigger quantities... buy more = cheaper manufacture costs.
Example.
The new Star wars Blu-ray release is around $80-$90 (yes I know there are more discs, but the actual discs that they put the content on are mere pennies when dealing in huge volumes, so I am comparing the packaging which is more or less the same size).
I am sure LucasFilms LTD gets great deals on mass production and distribution (I'm guessing an enormous difference per unit vs the PJ20 film)
Yet it costs considerably more.
Seems simple to me.
Do you think that a group that has sold millions of albums can't get a sweet manufacturing deal on their pet project?
They charged what they thought they could get all things considered. There's nothing wrong with that. I won't buy it at that price. But, others will. The only thing I see as wrong is those complaining and then shelling out the money anyway. You lose your right to complain about something when you feed it. I can't complain the rotweiler ate my arm when I offered him a raw steak out of my hand......
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Unlike something that is mass produced in Much, Much bigger quantities... buy more = cheaper manufacture costs.
Example.
The new Star wars Blu-ray release is around $80-$90 (yes I know there are more discs, but the actual discs that they put the content on are mere pennies when dealing in huge volumes, so I am comparing the packaging which is more or less the same size).
I am sure LucasFilms LTD gets great deals on mass production and distribution (I'm guessing an enormous difference per unit vs the PJ20 film)
Yet it costs considerably more.
Seems simple to me.
Do you think that a group that has sold millions of albums can't get a sweet manufacturing deal on their pet project?
They charged what they thought they could get all things considered. There's nothing wrong with that. I won't buy it at that price. But, others will. The only thing I see as wrong is those complaining and then shelling out the money anyway. You lose your right to complain about something when you feed it. I can't complain the rotweiler ate my arm when I offered him a raw steak out of my hand......
The manufacturing company is still a company... they will charge accordingly regardless of how many albums PJ has sold.
I'm just saying that they are not getting anywhere near the profit margin that the major movie studios get.
And of course they want to make something from the sales too... that is the point in business after all.
I don't think they are raping the fans. I believe they are taking an appropriate profit, and moving on to the next thing.
My guess is that the next thing will also cost the fans money, and make them a profit
EV Solo Boston 6/16/11
East Troy 9/3/11
East Troy 9/4/11
Amsterdam 6/26/12
Amsterdam 6/27/12
Wrigley Field 7/19-20/13
Worcester, MA 10/15/13
Worcester, MA 10/16/13
Hartford, CT 10/25/13
Seattle, WA 12/06/13
Denver, CO 10/22/14 Fenway 2016 #1
Fenway 2016 #2 Fenway 2018 #1 Fenway 2018 #2
I'm actually hoping for the SUPER DELUXE Blu-ray/CD package:
Blu-Rays in Deluxe (minus the fan preening if that is in fact all that 3rd disc is)
BluRay or DVD of Alpine Valley PJ20 shows including highlights of them sharing stage with other bands' sets
Official PJ20 Bootlegs (probably 5 or 6 CDs).
Now, THAT someone in my family would over pay for as a Hannukah/Christmas Present!
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
The manufacturing company is still a company... they will charge accordingly regardless of how many albums PJ has sold.
I'm just saying that they are not getting anywhere near the profit margin that the major movie studios get.
And of course they want to make something from the sales too... that is the point in business after all.
I don't think they are raping the fans. I believe they are taking an appropriate profit, and moving on to the next thing.
My guess is that the next thing will also cost the fans money, and make them a profit
I don't think one person has said that Pearl Jam shouldn't make a profit. If I may bastardize a line from Joe Dirt, "Maybe one day UNICEF will get in the Pearl Jam market, but until then...". There is no justifying this price though. It goes beyond simply making a profit. I believe we are seeing a price tag put on our fandom. I doubt two DVD's of bonus footage and some swankier packaging drive the unit cost up to quadruple the price of the single disc version.
As for the Limited Edition, that's an old, lame business model. Create an artificial demand by "limiting" the number of units you put on the market. I expect this out of Tickle Me Elmo, not Pearl Jam.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
The manufacturing company is still a company... they will charge accordingly regardless of how many albums PJ has sold.
I'm just saying that they are not getting anywhere near the profit margin that the major movie studios get.
And of course they want to make something from the sales too... that is the point in business after all.
I don't think they are raping the fans. I believe they are taking an appropriate profit, and moving on to the next thing.
My guess is that the next thing will also cost the fans money, and make them a profit
I don't think one person has said that Pearl Jam shouldn't make a profit. If I may bastardize a line from Joe Dirt, "Maybe one day UNICEF will get in the Pearl Jam market, but until then...". There is no justifying this price though. It goes beyond simply making a profit. I believe we are seeing a price tag put on our fandom. I doubt two DVD's of bonus footage and some swankier packaging drive the unit cost up to quadruple the price of the single disc version.
As for the Limited Edition, that's an old, lame business model. Create an artificial demand by "limiting" the number of units you put on the market. I expect this out of Tickle Me Elmo, not Pearl Jam.
You could argue both sides of this all day...
What about $10 for a bootleg DOWNLOAD?.... those are manufactured once. A performance that fans already paid them to play. (feel free to add more to this list)
I'm sticking to my main points which people seem to want to argue...
Yes I agree.. its more than we want to pay.
Deluxe = charge more.. sure ok, I get it. But why offer a bigger package for the same or less?
Limited = higher manufacturing cost per unit.
Does the standard version cost 1/4 of the deluxe limited per unit? Who knows? The standard IS being mass produced for global distribution... its bound to be somewhat significant.
Making money is definitely a part of this business. But, don't you think if it was ALL about the almighty dollar they could re-release all official boots (incurring very little overhead to do so) and further cash in on the Fandom? Maybe they could host or participate in fewer charitable events also?
Have some faith people.
EV Solo Boston 6/16/11
East Troy 9/3/11
East Troy 9/4/11
Amsterdam 6/26/12
Amsterdam 6/27/12
Wrigley Field 7/19-20/13
Worcester, MA 10/15/13
Worcester, MA 10/16/13
Hartford, CT 10/25/13
Seattle, WA 12/06/13
Denver, CO 10/22/14 Fenway 2016 #1
Fenway 2016 #2 Fenway 2018 #1 Fenway 2018 #2
My 22 shows:
1996 - Toronto
1998 - Montreal, Toronto
2000 - Montreal, Toronto
2003 - Toronto, Montreal
2004 - Boston I, Boston II
2005 - Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa
2011 - Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa
2013 - London, Seattle
2016 - Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
They charged what they thought they could get all things considered. There's nothing wrong with that. I won't buy it at that price. But, others will. The only thing I see as wrong is those complaining and then shelling out the money anyway. You lose your right to complain about something when you feed it. I can't complain the rotweiler ate my arm when I offered him a raw steak out of my hand......[/quote]
i'm pretty sure if there was some transparency - people would realize it is a fair price for the dvd set ... yes ... $70 is a lot of money ... but the price is fair when all things are considered ... same with their concert tickets and all merchandise ...
as a consumerist society - we don't truly realize what the actual costs are for manufacturing goods ... we expect it cheap ...
i'm pretty sure if there was some transparency - people would realize it is a fair price for the dvd set ... yes ... $70 is a lot of money ... but the price is fair when all things are considered ... same with their concert tickets and all merchandise ...
as a consumerist society - we don't truly realize what the actual costs are for manufacturing goods ... we expect it cheap ...
Manufacturing costs are a lot less than you think-you would be shocked to know the cost of many consumer goods
The prices are based upon recouping costs after piracy is accounted for.
You could argue both sides of this all day...
What about $10 for a bootleg DOWNLOAD?.... those are manufactured once. A performance that fans already paid them to play. (feel free to add more to this list)
I'm sticking to my main points which people seem to want to argue...
Yes I agree.. its more than we want to pay.
Deluxe = charge more.. sure ok, I get it. But why offer a bigger package for the same or less?
Limited = higher manufacturing cost per unit.
Does the standard version cost 1/4 of the deluxe limited per unit? Who knows? The standard IS being mass produced for global distribution... its bound to be somewhat significant.
Making money is definitely a part of this business. But, don't you think if it was ALL about the almighty dollar they could re-release all official boots (incurring very little overhead to do so) and further cash in on the Fandom? Maybe they could host or participate in fewer charitable events also?
Have some faith people.
Bootlegs, backpacks, and other merchandise aren't something EVERY fan would buy. This entire year has been a buildup to this film and the PJ20 festival. But mainly the movie, because it's how people all over the world, who couldn't make the trip to Wisconsin, are celebrating PJ20. There wasn't a website with a countdown to the release of the backpack, or a bootleg. Pearl Jam didn't go on Fallon to promote the Vans Shoes. Just because every piece of merchandise isn't overpriced doesn't make up for this one, THE piece of merchandise that everybody wants.
They could have mass produced the Limited Edition, and just made it THE Edition, and made a fine profit at a fan friendly price. The fact that it's a limited edition doesn't excuse the price, because they are the ones that limited it. They made a decision to release a skin and bones edition, then a "Limited Edition" that you can only get from them (so there would be no competition) and prevented the market from determining the price. They control the supply, so they control the demand/price.
I don't think Pearl Jam are greedy. I may have joked about it, and made my little Angry Eddie picture, but I would like to believe that the merchandising arm of 10C, or management set this price, and not the band. Maybe I'm naive, but if I didn't believe that then my entire view of this band would change. The Ticketmaster debacle would have been all for naught, and the era of Pearl Jam as a band that looks out for its fans would be over in MY mind. It wouldn't be the end of the world, plenty of bands have gone after my wallet, The Rolling Stones for example, and I don't love them any less, but I never had the type of expectations for them that I have for Pearl Jam. The Rolling Stones never testified in Washington, outraged over a $5 service fee. I wouldn't stop being a fan, but one of the things that made me so proud to be a Pearl Jam fan would be just part of its history, once again, in MY mind.
It's like my dad always used to say to me when I would fuck up (which was often)... "I'm not so much mad, as I'm disappointed". I don't have the cost figures for this film, but I've been a consumer long enough to know when something isn't right. It is the single most expensive item I've considered buying from 10C aside from concert tickets. And at the end of the day it's 3 DVD's, 2 of which are bonus features. It's not like 3 feature films here. And I have never paid this much for any set of DVDs in my life, and I have 5, 6, 7 disc sets in my collection. I would love 10C to show up us "complainers", to show us the cost figures and say "This is how much it cost to produce, this is our profit margin which is pretty good (I want them to make money) but not greedy, now shut up". But so far the only time anybody has chimed in was to say there would be a single disc BluRay. I think that if 10C could justify this price, they would. They don't want fans thinking ill of them or the band. And I would love nothing more than to be wrong about this, because I didn't become a Pearl Jam fan out of spite, I want to like them. And I still do, but this piece of merchandise is making me re-think some of my long held opinions. Yes it is just one piece of merchandise among many, but this film is the focus of this whole year, and the one thing they are going to sell the most of, so it was (in my opinion) the one they shouldn't have done this with, but probably knew they could. But "knowing they could" to me isn't the end of discussion explanation that is it for some people, because I've never seen the band as trying to get out of us what they felt they could.
I've said just about everything I can about this, probably more than I needed to. I'm not really telling anybody anything, just venting. And both sides of the discussion are pretty much beating a dead horse. Nobody is changing their minds (be it those that think it's too high, those that don't) and the price isn't going to change. And this post is getting as long as the price is high. So with that I've pretty much said my mind as far as this entire thread goes. The only solace I have is that this is Pearl Jam, and the money doesn't go towards hot tubs filled with champagne, or lines of cocaine on a hooker's ass, they will put it to good use. But I can put it to good use too.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
Manufacturing costs are a lot less than you think-you would be shocked to know the cost of many consumer goods
The prices are based upon recouping costs after piracy is accounted for.
But thats just masturbatory speculation.
but in each line of production there are choices ... from the publisher of the box to the printer of the dvds ... obviously it is speculation like you said but it wouldn't surprise me if the band paid more in each of those choices to support a company they believed in ... maybe one company uses post consumer recycled content and veggie based inks and another didn't but it would cost more ...
i need to find an appropriate time to use this phrase...
Mansfield, MA - Jul 02, 2003; Mansfield, MA - Jul 03, 2003; Mansfield, MA - Jul 11, 2003; Boston, MA - Sep 29, 2004; Reading, PA - Oct 01, 2004; Hartford, CT - May 13, 2006; Boston, MA - May 24, 2006; Boston, MA - May 25, 2006; Hartford, CT - Jun 27, 2008; Mansfield, MA - Jun 28, 2008; Mansfield, MA - June 30, 2008; Hartford, CT - May 15, 2010; Boston, MA - May 17, 2010; [EV - Providence, RI - June 15, 2011; EV - Hartford, CT - June 18, 2011]; Worcester, MA - Oct. 15, 2013; Worcester, MA - Oct. 16, 2013; Hartford, CT - Oct. 25, 2013; Boston, MA - August 5, 2016; Boston, MA - August 7, 2016...
i'm pretty sure if there was some transparency - people would realize it is a fair price for the dvd set ... yes ... $70 is a lot of money ... but the price is fair when all things are considered ... same with their concert tickets and all merchandise ...
as a consumerist society - we don't truly realize what the actual costs are for manufacturing goods ... we expect it cheap ...
Well, I'm pretty sure if it was a fair price there would be more transparency, like giving a better description of what's in the bonus features, than the vague explanation they have now.
i'm pretty sure if there was some transparency - people would realize it is a fair price for the dvd set ... yes ... $70 is a lot of money ... but the price is fair when all things are considered ... same with their concert tickets and all merchandise ...
Just out of curiosity, how do you know that this is a fair price?
Do you have any insights, or is it just an assumption?
I think the price for the deluxe DVD/BD sets is not good at all.
On the other hand, the price for the backpack was a nice surprise, a real good price in my eyes.
Manufacturing costs are a lot less than you think-you would be shocked to know the cost of many consumer goods
The prices are based upon recouping costs after piracy is accounted for.
But thats just masturbatory speculation.
but in each line of production there are choices ... from the publisher of the box to the printer of the dvds ... obviously it is speculation like you said but it wouldn't surprise me if the band paid more in each of those choices to support a company they believed in ... maybe one company uses post consumer recycled content and veggie based inks and another didn't but it would cost more ...
No matter what suppliers and service providers they chose, the finished cost i likely less than 30% of the sale price-probably much less.
And while I dont know for sure, I would guess that the hard copy distribution is handled by the same folks that do all of cameron crowe's films-when a major studio isnt involved
Well, I'm pretty sure if it was a fair price there would be more transparency, like giving a better description of what's in the bonus features, than the vague explanation they have now.
i guess we will find out ...
to me ... pearl jam is sorta like patagonia ... i support patagonia because they make quality clothes and they are a 1% for the planet company ... all there stuff costs more but i also know they source their materials from eco friendly sources when possible and don't use sweat shops ... pj over the years has shown a similar commitment and nothing they have put out or done has really shaken that for me ...
it really comes down to how you value you the stuff ... i'd rather pay $20 for a tshirt from patagonia than a $15 t--shirt from target ... same thing goes for pj ...
Well, I'm pretty sure if it was a fair price there would be more transparency, like giving a better description of what's in the bonus features, than the vague explanation they have now.
i guess we will find out ...
to me ... pearl jam is sorta like patagonia ... i support patagonia because they make quality clothes and they are a 1% for the planet company ... all there stuff costs more but i also know they source their materials from eco friendly sources when possible and don't use sweat shops ... pj over the years has shown a similar commitment and nothing they have put out or done has really shaken that for me ...
it really comes down to how you value you the stuff ... i'd rather pay $20 for a tshirt from patagonia than a $15 t--shirt from target ... same thing goes for pj ...
dude
patagonia shirts are more than that
dont kind yourself
premium brands have a greater profit margin than any other
I love patagonia for their design-but make no mistake you are paying two-three times more than what would be charged if it was a generic product
Just out of curiosity, how do you know that this is a fair price?
Do you have any insights, or is it just an assumption?
I think the price for the deluxe DVD/BD sets is not good at all.
On the other hand, the price for the backpack was a nice surprise, a real good price in my eyes.
it's definitely speculation ... a combination of a little faith in the band and comparative pricing ...
listen ... it's just my opinion ... if people think it's a rip off ... they are totally entitled to it ... it's just the way i see it ...
i pay more generally for things i consume, primarily food ... because i see value in buying organic/local ... but that's just me ...
Comments
I'm sure most people realize that 10c didn't make/release the movie.
I'd think the limited screen times are part of the business plan too. I'm sure they figured out the best way to maximize the profits. A movie like this isn't gonna make millions week after week. There's a select group of people interested in seeing it who are gonna try like hell to get to the limited showings.
Why don't the standard dvd and bluray have ridiculous prices if "all these people should get paid"? Hmm, could it have something to do with the fact that PJ camp knows that the hardcore fans will pay about anything to get that extra material and the cool packaging?
Let me ask you this, why is the single disc DVD only $14.99? If the price for the 3 Disc DVD and BluRay really is necessary to recoup the costs, are they just taking a bath on the single disc price and passing on the burden of recovering the costs to 10C members with a Deluxe Edition? That doesn't seem right either.
There are many concert/rockumentaries released on the home video market (or just regular films for that matter), that never have any theatrical release and don't cost this much. I keep hearing that the price is justified because of the limited theatrical release, but I don't buy that. I was just reading that as of Sept. 25th, PJ20's Domestic Box Office is $382,791. I'm sure once you add in worldwide box office numbers, PPV sales, and whatever else, then PJ20 is making some decent money before it gets to the home video market.
And I'm sure many people on that list are already on salary/retainer by some of the parties involved. Curtis Talent Management for example, that's Kelly Curtis.
Pretty sure the opening and closing credits listed Monkeywrench Records next to Vinyl Films presents... ?
New Mexico Pearl Jam Fans (New Mexico, USA) on Facebook!
Of course, I don't think it's all that high though (Sure, its higher than I'd like to pay).
Limited Edition means it is not mass-produced for global distribution. For sale only through 10c.
They can't be getting a very good printing/production/distribution rate from the manufacturer.
Unlike something that is mass produced in Much, Much bigger quantities... buy more = cheaper manufacture costs.
Example.
The new Star wars Blu-ray release is around $80-$90 (yes I know there are more discs, but the actual discs that they put the content on are mere pennies when dealing in huge volumes, so I am comparing the packaging which is more or less the same size).
I am sure LucasFilms LTD gets great deals on mass production and distribution (I'm guessing an enormous difference per unit vs the PJ20 film)
Yet it costs considerably more.
Seems simple to me.
Another thing to note, the PJ20 backpack was sold at $10 cheaper than the non PJ20 models by the same manufacturer.
They easily could have charged more, and it still would have sold out.
AND... I bet they knew that.
East Troy 9/3/11
East Troy 9/4/11
Amsterdam 6/26/12
Amsterdam 6/27/12
Wrigley Field 7/19-20/13
Worcester, MA 10/15/13
Worcester, MA 10/16/13
Hartford, CT 10/25/13
Seattle, WA 12/06/13
Denver, CO 10/22/14
Fenway 2016 #1
Fenway 2016 #2
Fenway 2018 #1
Fenway 2018 #2
Do you think that a group that has sold millions of albums can't get a sweet manufacturing deal on their pet project?
They charged what they thought they could get all things considered. There's nothing wrong with that. I won't buy it at that price. But, others will. The only thing I see as wrong is those complaining and then shelling out the money anyway. You lose your right to complain about something when you feed it. I can't complain the rotweiler ate my arm when I offered him a raw steak out of my hand......
The manufacturing company is still a company... they will charge accordingly regardless of how many albums PJ has sold.
I'm just saying that they are not getting anywhere near the profit margin that the major movie studios get.
And of course they want to make something from the sales too... that is the point in business after all.
I don't think they are raping the fans. I believe they are taking an appropriate profit, and moving on to the next thing.
My guess is that the next thing will also cost the fans money, and make them a profit
East Troy 9/3/11
East Troy 9/4/11
Amsterdam 6/26/12
Amsterdam 6/27/12
Wrigley Field 7/19-20/13
Worcester, MA 10/15/13
Worcester, MA 10/16/13
Hartford, CT 10/25/13
Seattle, WA 12/06/13
Denver, CO 10/22/14
Fenway 2016 #1
Fenway 2016 #2
Fenway 2018 #1
Fenway 2018 #2
Blu-Rays in Deluxe (minus the fan preening if that is in fact all that 3rd disc is)
BluRay or DVD of Alpine Valley PJ20 shows including highlights of them sharing stage with other bands' sets
Official PJ20 Bootlegs (probably 5 or 6 CDs).
Now, THAT someone in my family would over pay for as a Hannukah/Christmas Present!
I don't think one person has said that Pearl Jam shouldn't make a profit. If I may bastardize a line from Joe Dirt, "Maybe one day UNICEF will get in the Pearl Jam market, but until then...". There is no justifying this price though. It goes beyond simply making a profit. I believe we are seeing a price tag put on our fandom. I doubt two DVD's of bonus footage and some swankier packaging drive the unit cost up to quadruple the price of the single disc version.
As for the Limited Edition, that's an old, lame business model. Create an artificial demand by "limiting" the number of units you put on the market. I expect this out of Tickle Me Elmo, not Pearl Jam.
You could argue both sides of this all day...
What about $10 for a bootleg DOWNLOAD?.... those are manufactured once. A performance that fans already paid them to play. (feel free to add more to this list)
I'm sticking to my main points which people seem to want to argue...
Yes I agree.. its more than we want to pay.
Deluxe = charge more.. sure ok, I get it. But why offer a bigger package for the same or less?
Limited = higher manufacturing cost per unit.
Does the standard version cost 1/4 of the deluxe limited per unit? Who knows? The standard IS being mass produced for global distribution... its bound to be somewhat significant.
Making money is definitely a part of this business. But, don't you think if it was ALL about the almighty dollar they could re-release all official boots (incurring very little overhead to do so) and further cash in on the Fandom? Maybe they could host or participate in fewer charitable events also?
Have some faith people.
East Troy 9/3/11
East Troy 9/4/11
Amsterdam 6/26/12
Amsterdam 6/27/12
Wrigley Field 7/19-20/13
Worcester, MA 10/15/13
Worcester, MA 10/16/13
Hartford, CT 10/25/13
Seattle, WA 12/06/13
Denver, CO 10/22/14
Fenway 2016 #1
Fenway 2016 #2
Fenway 2018 #1
Fenway 2018 #2
Low blow...accurate but seriously low blow....
1996 - Toronto
1998 - Montreal, Toronto
2000 - Montreal, Toronto
2003 - Toronto, Montreal
2004 - Boston I, Boston II
2005 - Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa
2011 - Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa
2013 - London, Seattle
2016 - Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
I kind of agree. The price is too high but people are taking this too far now.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Great summation. Creative analogy.
i'm pretty sure if there was some transparency - people would realize it is a fair price for the dvd set ... yes ... $70 is a lot of money ... but the price is fair when all things are considered ... same with their concert tickets and all merchandise ...
as a consumerist society - we don't truly realize what the actual costs are for manufacturing goods ... we expect it cheap ...
The prices are based upon recouping costs after piracy is accounted for.
But thats just masturbatory speculation.
You consider that taking it too far? I don't see how this even gets close to taking it too far.
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
Bootlegs, backpacks, and other merchandise aren't something EVERY fan would buy. This entire year has been a buildup to this film and the PJ20 festival. But mainly the movie, because it's how people all over the world, who couldn't make the trip to Wisconsin, are celebrating PJ20. There wasn't a website with a countdown to the release of the backpack, or a bootleg. Pearl Jam didn't go on Fallon to promote the Vans Shoes. Just because every piece of merchandise isn't overpriced doesn't make up for this one, THE piece of merchandise that everybody wants.
They could have mass produced the Limited Edition, and just made it THE Edition, and made a fine profit at a fan friendly price. The fact that it's a limited edition doesn't excuse the price, because they are the ones that limited it. They made a decision to release a skin and bones edition, then a "Limited Edition" that you can only get from them (so there would be no competition) and prevented the market from determining the price. They control the supply, so they control the demand/price.
I don't think Pearl Jam are greedy. I may have joked about it, and made my little Angry Eddie picture, but I would like to believe that the merchandising arm of 10C, or management set this price, and not the band. Maybe I'm naive, but if I didn't believe that then my entire view of this band would change. The Ticketmaster debacle would have been all for naught, and the era of Pearl Jam as a band that looks out for its fans would be over in MY mind. It wouldn't be the end of the world, plenty of bands have gone after my wallet, The Rolling Stones for example, and I don't love them any less, but I never had the type of expectations for them that I have for Pearl Jam. The Rolling Stones never testified in Washington, outraged over a $5 service fee. I wouldn't stop being a fan, but one of the things that made me so proud to be a Pearl Jam fan would be just part of its history, once again, in MY mind.
It's like my dad always used to say to me when I would fuck up (which was often)... "I'm not so much mad, as I'm disappointed". I don't have the cost figures for this film, but I've been a consumer long enough to know when something isn't right. It is the single most expensive item I've considered buying from 10C aside from concert tickets. And at the end of the day it's 3 DVD's, 2 of which are bonus features. It's not like 3 feature films here. And I have never paid this much for any set of DVDs in my life, and I have 5, 6, 7 disc sets in my collection. I would love 10C to show up us "complainers", to show us the cost figures and say "This is how much it cost to produce, this is our profit margin which is pretty good (I want them to make money) but not greedy, now shut up". But so far the only time anybody has chimed in was to say there would be a single disc BluRay. I think that if 10C could justify this price, they would. They don't want fans thinking ill of them or the band. And I would love nothing more than to be wrong about this, because I didn't become a Pearl Jam fan out of spite, I want to like them. And I still do, but this piece of merchandise is making me re-think some of my long held opinions. Yes it is just one piece of merchandise among many, but this film is the focus of this whole year, and the one thing they are going to sell the most of, so it was (in my opinion) the one they shouldn't have done this with, but probably knew they could. But "knowing they could" to me isn't the end of discussion explanation that is it for some people, because I've never seen the band as trying to get out of us what they felt they could.
I've said just about everything I can about this, probably more than I needed to. I'm not really telling anybody anything, just venting. And both sides of the discussion are pretty much beating a dead horse. Nobody is changing their minds (be it those that think it's too high, those that don't) and the price isn't going to change. And this post is getting as long as the price is high. So with that I've pretty much said my mind as far as this entire thread goes. The only solace I have is that this is Pearl Jam, and the money doesn't go towards hot tubs filled with champagne, or lines of cocaine on a hooker's ass, they will put it to good use. But I can put it to good use too.
but in each line of production there are choices ... from the publisher of the box to the printer of the dvds ... obviously it is speculation like you said but it wouldn't surprise me if the band paid more in each of those choices to support a company they believed in ... maybe one company uses post consumer recycled content and veggie based inks and another didn't but it would cost more ...
Nope not for this price. In a few years I will find a used copy of the DVD for 10 bucks. I can wait.
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
i need to find an appropriate time to use this phrase...
Now if they had a full, unedited show on one of the DVDs as a bonus feature, say, something from 1994 or 1995, I would be first in line.
Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
Well, I'm pretty sure if it was a fair price there would be more transparency, like giving a better description of what's in the bonus features, than the vague explanation they have now.
Do you have any insights, or is it just an assumption?
I think the price for the deluxe DVD/BD sets is not good at all.
On the other hand, the price for the backpack was a nice surprise, a real good price in my eyes.
And while I dont know for sure, I would guess that the hard copy distribution is handled by the same folks that do all of cameron crowe's films-when a major studio isnt involved
i guess we will find out ...
to me ... pearl jam is sorta like patagonia ... i support patagonia because they make quality clothes and they are a 1% for the planet company ... all there stuff costs more but i also know they source their materials from eco friendly sources when possible and don't use sweat shops ... pj over the years has shown a similar commitment and nothing they have put out or done has really shaken that for me ...
it really comes down to how you value you the stuff ... i'd rather pay $20 for a tshirt from patagonia than a $15 t--shirt from target ... same thing goes for pj ...
patagonia shirts are more than that
dont kind yourself
premium brands have a greater profit margin than any other
I love patagonia for their design-but make no mistake you are paying two-three times more than what would be charged if it was a generic product
it's definitely speculation ... a combination of a little faith in the band and comparative pricing ...
listen ... it's just my opinion ... if people think it's a rip off ... they are totally entitled to it ... it's just the way i see it ...
i pay more generally for things i consume, primarily food ... because i see value in buying organic/local ... but that's just me ...