Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.
Yes, you can. If you only put the DP on the table if there is video and DNA proof.
Video can be manipulated and DNA can be planted. Some crooked evidence planting cops and DA's. I get what your saying and chances lowered, just the only way to eliminate chance is to stop.
Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.
Yes, you can. If you only put the DP on the table if there is video and DNA proof.
Video can be manipulated and DNA can be planted. Some crooked evidence planting cops and DA's. I get what your saying and chances lowered, just the only way to eliminate chance is to stop.
Then that person is going to die anyway if someone can alter video evidence and plant DNA on a scene.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
it baffles me to see people state very clearly they support pre-emptive killing.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
it baffles me to see people state very clearly they support pre-emptive killing.
Um, no. Executing someone who has already committed murder is not pre-emptive killing. Executing someone because they show traits that indicate someday they may commit murder would be pre-emptive killing.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
actually, we've seen many cases where the wrongfully convicted have been given their freedom only to continue their (abbreviated) lives in freedom.
so in your "the false conviction is the issue, not the penalty" argument, since death is not reversable, would you agree to the following:
-your vehicle is caught by photo radar as doing excessive speeds -you are sent a $500 ticket in the mail -you fight the conviction in court, and it is overturned because it is found you were not the one driving -you still have to pay the $500 ticket (because the penalty is not reversable, and it wasn't the penalty that was the problem-it was the SYSTEM that failed) -you are now not allowed to drive anymore, because you had previous speeding tickets in school zones, etc, and one more time caught and you are done
does this make a lick of sense to you?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
actually, we've seen many cases where the wrongfully convicted have been given their freedom only to continue their (abbreviated) lives in freedom.
so in your "the false conviction is the issue, not the penalty" argument, since death is not reversable, would you agree to the following:
-your vehicle is caught by photo radar as doing excessive speeds -you are sent a $500 ticket in the mail -you fight the conviction in court, and it is overturned because it is found you were not the one driving -you still have to pay the $500 ticket (because the penalty is not reversable, and it wasn't the penalty that was the problem-it was the SYSTEM that failed) -you are now not allowed to drive anymore, because you had previous speeding tickets in school zones, etc, and one more time caught and you are done
does this make a lick of sense to you?
Have you seen any cases where the wrongfully convicted were given back the years they lost in prison? You haven't, because in both cases something was taken away that cannot be given back. A life cannot be given back, true, but neither can years taken off of a life. They are not comparable to a traffic ticket that can be refunded or expunged.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.
I don't know what the stats are either but I guarantee it is higher than it should be. The death penalty is sought far too often. That is its biggest fault. It is used incorrectly.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.
baffling.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.
baffling.
What? That I'm ok with a child raping murderer being put to death? If there is video and DNA evidence supporting the guilty verdict, there's no reason to let scum like that live. What's more baffling is that you support sick fucks like that to breathe the same air as you. You can what if everything. Yes, video evidence can be tampered with and DNA can be planted. If somebody is capable of manipulating both to get somebody a death sentence, then chances are that person find an easier way in which to kill someone.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
BUT THEY ARE STILL ALIVE.
You make it sound like murderers and rapists need to be alive.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.
Okay so your okay with a few innocent people being killed. Now for the rest of death penalty proponents to admit the same.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.
Okay so your okay with a few innocent people being killed. Now for the rest of death penalty proponents to admit the same.
Where did I admit I'm okay with innocent people being executed? If that is ever a case of someone comprhending something that wasn't written, I don't know what is.
Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.
Yes, you can. If you only put the DP on the table if there is video and DNA proof.
Let me tell you exactly what that means so there's no chance for you to misinterpret. If you can get video evidence plus DNA matches to acquire a conviction, then I'm ok with the DP being on the table. I t does not bother me to see murderers and rapist get the needle, noose, firing squad, or chair. Without those two, I would not feel as comfortable using the death penalty.
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
BUT THEY ARE STILL ALIVE.
No, in my scenario the innocent victim is quite dead.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.
baffling.
What? That I'm ok with a child raping murderer being put to death? If there is video and DNA evidence supporting the guilty verdict, there's no reason to let scum like that live. What's more baffling is that you support sick fucks like that to breathe the same air as you. You can what if everything. Yes, video evidence can be tampered with and DNA can be planted. If somebody is capable of manipulating both to get somebody a death sentence, then chances are that person find an easier way in which to kill someone.
No, that you re ok with the "less than 1%" of innocent people being put to death so rapists and murderers also can be. And more, that you claiming that being wrongly pit to death has zero to do with the death penalty itself. It wouldnt happen if there was no death penalty, so there is quite obviously a pretty major correlation between it.
The problems of a flawed justice system, at this point, are impossible to fix. it is human administered, so it will always be flawed. You simply cannot end a persons life under that set of circumstances.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.
Yes, you can. If you only put the DP on the table if there is video and DNA proof.
Let me tell you exactly what that means so there's no chance for you to misinterpret. If you can get video evidence plus DNA matches to acquire a conviction, then I'm ok with the DP being on the table. I t does not bother me to see murderers and rapist get the needle, noose, firing squad, or chair. Without those two, I would not feel as comfortable using the death penalty.
So you answered your own question. Your final paragraph shiws you are for the death penalty. Put an asterisk of *under perfect conditions* if you wish, but the result is the same.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
BUT THEY ARE STILL ALIVE.
No, in my scenario the innocent victim is quite dead.
And so is the wrongly convicted innocent victim.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.
those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.
No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.
the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
BUT THEY ARE STILL ALIVE.
No, in my scenario the innocent victim is quite dead.
And so is the wrongly convicted innocent victim.
No, that was your scenario. In mine there was no wrongly convicted victim, only a justly convicted murder who was allowed to go to prison and who found a way to kill again.
The Cheshire murderers, running from the house they had just set on fire with the raped and murdered inhabitants inside it, are the perfect example where the DP is appropriate. There are many others as well- let's not kid ourselves.
One of the two rapist murderers is even asking for the state to get on with his execution given he feels he deserves it. I'm in agreement with him. Of course, the other shitbird is exhausting legal channels as he scrambles to save his worthless life.
Comments
-EV 8/14/93
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
-EV 8/14/93
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.
thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?
-EV 8/14/93
It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
-EV 8/14/93
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
so in your "the false conviction is the issue, not the penalty" argument, since death is not reversable, would you agree to the following:
-your vehicle is caught by photo radar as doing excessive speeds
-you are sent a $500 ticket in the mail
-you fight the conviction in court, and it is overturned because it is found you were not the one driving
-you still have to pay the $500 ticket (because the penalty is not reversable, and it wasn't the penalty that was the problem-it was the SYSTEM that failed)
-you are now not allowed to drive anymore, because you had previous speeding tickets in school zones, etc, and one more time caught and you are done
does this make a lick of sense to you?
-EV 8/14/93
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
-EV 8/14/93
And it's less than. 1% so no biggy.
Gots to get us some revenge. Fuck the poor slob that can't afford a good attorney and gets railroaded by over anxious DA.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
The problems of a flawed justice system, at this point, are impossible to fix. it is human administered, so it will always be flawed. You simply cannot end a persons life under that set of circumstances.
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
One of the two rapist murderers is even asking for the state to get on with his execution given he feels he deserves it. I'm in agreement with him. Of course, the other shitbird is exhausting legal channels as he scrambles to save his worthless life.