The Death Penalty

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

yeah i know prison guards (including dad) who prevented rapes. there was a big fucking dude who was what they called a aggresive homosexual/rape artist & so on.

he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.

i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.

Good for your dad, for sure. But.....

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131113&page=1

200,000 rapes in prison each year? With those numbers, there is no way it's not being willfully ignored.

chadwick

PJ_Soul wrote:

chadwick wrote:

yeah i know prison guards (including dad) who prevented rapes. there was a big fucking dude who was what they called a aggresive homosexual/rape artist & so on.

he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.

i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.

Good for your dad, for sure. But.....

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131113&page=1

200,000 rapes in prison each year? With those numbers, there is no way it's not being willfully ignored.

i trully believe rapes in prison are not willfully ignored. that is ridiculous

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

chadwick wrote:

yeah i know prison guards (including dad) who prevented rapes. there was a big fucking dude who was what they called a aggresive homosexual/rape artist & so on.

he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.

i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.

Good for your dad, for sure. But.....

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131113&page=1

200,000 rapes in prison each year? With those numbers, there is no way it's not being willfully ignored.

i trully believe rapes in prison are not willfully ignored. that is ridiculous

Did you read the article?

How about these ones?

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/ ... rison-rape

http://www.salon.com/1999/08/23/prisons_3/

http://www.justdetention.org/en/survivor_testimony.aspx

chadwick

as a matter of fact, prison guards fight to protect inmates in protective custody & others locked up who may need a helping hand. turn a back to a bit of gambling, drug use or dealing or someone who has extra toothpaste or more cds than they are supposed to have.

i know a guard who was beat nearly to death with a mop ringer as he tried protecting a inmate who was himself being beat with the mop ringer. then out of nowhere a family friend (ray) tackled this massive animal & made him cry for his mother. ray saved two peoples' lives, one a fellow officer & the other a prisoner

i have never ever in 47 billion years ever heard of officers allowing animal rapists to rape. this is a bullshit hollywood story telling tactic

chadwick

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz huh
say what

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

as a matter of fact, prison guards fight to protect inmates in protective custody & others locked up who may need a helping hand. turn a back to a bit of gambling, drug use or dealing or someone who has extra toothpaste or more cds than they are supposed to have.

i know a guard who was beat nearly to death with a mop ringer as he tried protecting a inmate who was himself being beat with the mop ringer. then out of nowhere a family friend (ray) tackled this massive animal & made him cry for his mother. ray saved two peoples' lives, one a fellow officer & the other a prisoner

i have never ever in 47 billion years ever heard of officers allowing animal rapists to rape. this is a bullshit hollywood story telling tactic

I think that's crazy talk. There is corruption among corrections officers big time, and corrections attracts fucking power hungry crazies too. That doesn't mean that the majority aren't doing their best. But just like with every single job where people hold positions of power (politics, police, corrections), and ESPECIALLY in prison corrections where they hold more direct power, physically and emotionally, over their wards, there is abuse and corruption. Very naive to think otherwise (especially when there is real evidence to prove it, including witnesses and whistleblowers). Ever seen that famous study where they get normal people into that position as a psychological study, and how fast the subjects of the study morphed into an abuse of power situation?

And let's not forget the sexual abuse, and, much more commonly, the sexual harassment committed by guards in women's prisons.

chadwick

are you saying i am naive?

here, i'll back up a notch & reword some things. sure, corruption exists. do i believe corrections officers allow inmates to rape each other by turning their backs? not a lot at all, no. 99% do not allow sick fucking shit bag rapists to rape other weaker inmates. maybe they aren't raping them, they could be lovers.

inmates are very well known for lying under oath to get money & or a lower sentence. inmates are allowed a direct number to a prison lawyer & judge, at least in iowa they are. the judge here in the maximum security prison is a screwed up dude, he constantly awards inmates. inmates sue the state of iowa over things like the following: cheese, bread, milk, grass in the yard gave them allergies, a fellow inmate passes gas a lot, they have too much shampoo & the soap storage place is small, the water is too hot, the water is too cold, blah blah blah

the warden raped me, the assisstant warden rapes inmates, the sgt smokes crack during the night shift, those two guards are gay & have orgies w/ inmates, those guards bring in heroin, that female officer gives oral, the list goes on

some is true, a lot is not

chadwick

remember... many a corrections officers been beat for defending inmates in a jam. many a corrections officers were beat so bad they nearly died protecting inmates. here in iowa, guards do not allow rape. i just can't wrap my head around such allegations.

it could happen but it isn't often & it isn't wide spread. on the outside, many have delusions about the inside. again, thank hollywood

JimmyV

PJ_Soul wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

So in your opinion, the point of the death penalty is not to rid the world of the person (suicide takes care of that just as well but without a murderous government), but to exact revenge.

The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.

Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.

Well, as I said before, I think it would be great if all violent criminals were just provided a noose or a glass of cyanide, and if they want to kill themselves instead of taking up space in prison, great. Gets rid of the problem without the negative implications of the death penalty.

So the death penalty is wrong, but saying "Kill yourself now or face life in prison" is OK?

I have to imagine that if I was an innocent person wrongly convicted and knowing what prison is like...that noose or glass of cyanide would be looking pretty good.

PJ_Soul

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.

Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.

Well, as I said before, I think it would be great if all violent criminals were just provided a noose or a glass of cyanide, and if they want to kill themselves instead of taking up space in prison, great. Gets rid of the problem without the negative implications of the death penalty.

So the death penalty is wrong, but saying "Kill yourself now or face life in prison" is OK?

I have to imagine that if I was an innocent person wrongly convicted and knowing what prison is like...that noose or glass of cyanide would be looking pretty good.

Yes. I am a big supporter of Euthanasia or the right to kill oneself. Don't you think that saying kill yourself now or face a life in prison is okay? I mean, it's already an option that is 100% available to all people who are guilty and are going to spend life in prison. Why not make it so that it's easier to clean up? *shrug*

If I was innocent and wrongly convicted and was being sent to life in prison my ONLY thought would be how I was going to prove my innocence. I doubt that many innocent people are immediately ready to turn to suicide, but if they are there are a lot of ways to do it anyway. If that's the route they want to take, they'll take it either way. But I should think that most people would be horrified, but ready to fight to prove that a mistake had been made and spend every waking moment with the hope that their fight won't be futile. It's just like the theory that only the guilty sleep soundly after being arrested or whatever it is.

JimmyV

PJ_Soul wrote:

Yes. I am a big supporter of Euthanasia or the right to kill oneself. Don't you think that saying kill yourself now or face a life in prison is okay? I mean, it's already an option that is 100% available to all people who are guilty and are going to spend life in prison. Why not make it so that it's easier to clean up? *shrug*

If I was innocent and wrongly convicted and was being sent to life in prison my ONLY thought would be how I was going to prove my innocence. I doubt that many innocent people are immediately ready to turn to suicide, but if they are there are a lot of ways to do it anyway. If that's the route they want to take, they'll take it either way. But I should think that most people would be horrified, but ready to fight to prove that a mistake had been made and spend every waking moment with the hope that their fight won't be futile. It's just like the theory that only the guilty sleep soundly after being arrested or whatever it is.

I am a big supporter of Euthanasia as well, because I believe in free will and it should be a free person's right to choose when to end their life. But we are not talking about free persons when it comes to the death penalty. Arial Castro's days of free will should have been over. He sacrificed them when he decided to kidnap, imprison, and rape those women. Ultimately, yes, the choice would always be his and someone who wants to kill themselves will find away. However, I don't think the state should ever give anyone that choice as part of a sentence. A criminal on the level of Arial Castro should not be afforded the luxury of deciding when, where and how they go. This is not someone ravaged by cancer who simply cannot go on. This is a monster who, in making a deal to avoid the death penalty, was sentenced to life in prison. Suicide is an easy out that Arial Castro did not deserve.

Of course, neither of us can say for sure how we would react if being wrongly convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Myself...I can't imagine it. Prison scares the hell out of me. I'm not cut out for it. If I had just gone through the experience of being accused, arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced...if maybe some of my friends and loved ones doubted my innocence...I don't know, that cyanide would look tempting.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

You are blaming society now for the actions of its depraved?

No. Here's what i said: "Maybe that same society should take a degree of responsibility for that before condemning them to death for the crimes they've committed."

You need to stop exaggerating my statements in order to try and dismiss them. It's too obvious.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

If I am looking into the US murder rate, I would look at gun ownership, poverty, inequities within the systems, alcohol and drug use, and other such variables before I would begin to think that capital punishment is at the root of murderous mindsets.

I didn't say that capital punishment is at the root of murderous mindsets. Again, quit with the exaggerations.

catefrances

who cares why castro killed himself? he made the decision and im losing no sleep over it. he couldn't take being incarcerated... now he knows how those girls he kept chained up felt... tho they chose to stay alive. more power to them. ding dong...

Byrnzie

JimmyV wrote:

Death by his own hand, at a time of his own choosing, in a manner of his own choosing, is far too easy a punishment for Arial Castro. Those condemned to die via the death penalty are afforded none of those choices.

Seems to me that you see the death penalty, and execution of the accused, as more about the pleasure that you can derive from his execution, by making sure that his death is carried out with your own hand, than about his actual death itself and any kind of 'justice' you wish to tag onto it.

let's face it, it's just blood-lust, pure and simple.

A society that takes satisfaction in blood-lust and revenge is a barbaric society as far as I'm concerned.

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Didn't you just say that you thought death was too easy for Ariel Castro? From that I had assumed that you'd changed your mind on this issue.... I assumed that you thought killing criminals basically let them off the hook.

A mistaken assumption. Death by his own hand, at a time of his own choosing, in a manner of his own choosing, is far too easy a punishment for Arial Castro. Those condemned to die via the death penalty are afforded none of those choices.

Plus, he cut a deal to avoid the death penalty. His sentence was life in prison, a sentence he has now escaped. Far too easy.

So in your opinion, the point of the death penalty is not to rid the world of the person (suicide takes care of that just as well but without a murderous government), but to exact revenge.

Exactly. You beat me to it.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

You are blaming society now for the actions of its depraved?

No. Here's what i said: "Maybe that same society should take a degree of responsibility for that before condemning them to death for the crimes they've committed."

You need to stop exaggerating my statements in order to try and dismiss them. It's too obvious.

You said (your words copied and pasted), "these criminals didn't evolve in a vacuum. They are a product of the society they live in. Maybe that same society should take a degree of responsibility for that before condemning them to death for the crimes they've committed."

Interesting that you conveniently took your words out of the very context you wrote them in to soften the position you boldly asserted earlier.

To the actual (and more complete) quote... maybe I'm just dumb, but these words sure sound as if you are attributing a portion of blame to society instead of the source. How exactly have I exaggerated anything here?

And, get serious here... you talk of me stretching arguments to dismiss things said? The guy who somehow figures a person arguing for the death penalty is a guy that likely fantasizes of medieval torture in his spare time.

While I'm at it... I don't buy for a second you never directly called me an idiot. You denied it to me. Then you hid behind a really feeble response to Hugh after he called you out by expressing that you never noticed who wrote the quotations. Yah. Sure.

The only thing 'obvious' is your method of operation when you don't like the way the conversation is going.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

If I am looking into the US murder rate, I would look at gun ownership, poverty, inequities within the systems, alcohol and drug use, and other such variables before I would begin to think that capital punishment is at the root of murderous mindsets.

I didn't say that capital punishment is at the root of murderous mindsets. Again, quit with the exaggerations.

Again... what exaggerations?

You seem to be saying something when you continually utter things about the death penalty such as "it just teaches people that murder is an acceptable solution, and it degrades society to the level of those it condemns."

You accuse me of distorting your points by exaggerating them, yet your very words would suggest otherwise. Does the death penalty teach people that murder is an acceptable solution or not? If it does... then is it not at the core of the 'shaped' murderous mind? If it doesn't... would you care to retract?

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

You are blaming society now for the actions of its depraved?

No. Here's what i said: "Maybe that same society should take a degree of responsibility for that before condemning them to death for the crimes they've committed."

You need to stop exaggerating my statements in order to try and dismiss them. It's too obvious.

You said (your words copied and pasted), "these criminals didn't evolve in a vacuum. They are a product of the society they live in. Maybe that same society should take a degree of responsibility for that before condemning them to death for the crimes they've committed."

Interesting that you conveniently took your words out of the very context you wrote them in to soften the position you boldly asserted earlier.

To the actual (and more complete) quote... maybe I'm just dumb, but these words sure sound as if you are attributing a portion of blame to society instead of the source. How exactly have I exaggerated anything here?

And, get serious here... you talk of me stretching arguments to dismiss things said? The guy who somehow figures a person arguing for the death penalty is a guy that likely fantasizes of medieval torture in his spare time.

i didn't take my words out of context. Are you suggesting that criminals evolve in a vacuum and are not effected by the society around them? And yeah, i am attributing a portion of the blame to society. But that's not what you said before. You said that I'm "blaming society for the actions of its depraved".

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

While I'm at it... I don't buy for a second you never directly called me an idiot. You denied it to me. Then you hid behind a really feeble response to Hugh after he called you out by expressing that you never noticed who wrote the quotations. Yah. Sure.

You placed a quote in speech marks and italics, and i didn't notice the '30 bills' at the end of it. Why would you quote yourself?

know1

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

As distasteful as those comments might be... I view them as more or less people venting their outrage. There are certainly some who might be more serious than others, but it's fair to say that people say things they don't really mena when they are emotionally charged. Let's not judge too harshly given what they might be repsonding to and the moment they are doing so.

I'm not going to argue with much of what you are saying. There is a moral component to the siituation that begs consideration. However... I would disagree with your statement where you say it is with certainty that rape will occur. This is an exaggeration.

I take a pretty dim view of those comments, myself.

It may be an exaggeration about whether rape is a certainty, but from what I've heard and observed, it's pretty close to the truth.