I agree, it is very distasteful and rather macabre for people to make all the rape comments. Everyone should only be horrified that such things go on within prisons... They should also keep in mind that not everyone in prison is a child murderer, or a murderer, or a violent criminal in any way, yet are subjected to the same culture of brutality in prison (a culture that tends to make those who will be released MORE likely to re-offend rather than less). It's all bad and shouldn't be talked about as though it's just another form of punishment and revenge against psychopaths.
It not only shouldn't be talked about and applauded like some people do, but it should be STOPPED. If it is such a common practice that it's widely accepted that it WILL happen to prisoners, than our government should be charged with crimes for allowing it to happen.
Agreed.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No, it is the ultimate punishment reserved for the ultimate crimes. And it does solve the problem 100% of the time. Not a single murderer executed by the state has ever or will ever kill again.
It doesn't seem to change the murder rate, though, so you really can't say it's solving the problem.
True, but the murder rate overall is not the problem I see it solving. The rate of murders committed by those who have their death sentence carried out is zero. We cannot say the same for those who have been sentenced to prison.
Didn't you just say that you thought death was too easy for Ariel Castro? From that I had assumed that you'd changed your mind on this issue.... I assumed that you thought killing criminals basically let them off the hook.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No, it is the ultimate punishment reserved for the ultimate crimes. And it does solve the problem 100% of the time. Not a single murderer executed by the state has ever or will ever kill again.
And you are okay with a few innocent people getting killed along the way? There will never be a system created where this will not happen and this is what's happening right now with our current system to which you now support.
No, I am not. As I have stated previously in this thread, the problem with the death penalty is that it is used far too often. We are all aware of cases where, regardless of a jury's verdict, there is still a reasonable question of guilt. The death penalty should never be applied in these cases. That is why innocents are put to death. At the same time we are also aware of cases where guilt is not in question. There is a time and a place for the death penalty to be used.
Didn't you just say that you thought death was too easy for Ariel Castro? From that I had assumed that you'd changed your mind on this issue.... I assumed that you thought killing criminals basically let them off the hook.
A mistaken assumption. Death by his own hand, at a time of his own choosing, in a manner of his own choosing, is far too easy a punishment for Arial Castro. Those condemned to die via the death penalty are afforded none of those choices.
Plus, he cut a deal to avoid the death penalty. His sentence was life in prison, a sentence he has now escaped. Far too easy.
I agree, it is very distasteful and rather macabre for people to make all the rape comments. Everyone should only be horrified that such things go on within prisons... They should also keep in mind that not everyone in prison is a child murderer, or a murderer, or a violent criminal in any way, yet are subjected to the same culture of brutality in prison (a culture that tends to make those who will be released MORE likely to re-offend rather than less). It's all bad and shouldn't be talked about as though it's just another form of punishment and revenge against psychopaths.
It not only shouldn't be talked about and applauded like some people do, but it should be STOPPED. If it is such a common practice that it's widely accepted that it WILL happen to prisoners, than our government should be charged with crimes for allowing it to happen.
Huh?
Firstly... nobody on this forum is applauding violence within our prison system. I'm not too sure where these posts are coming from?
Secondly... what are you talking about when you say we should charge the government with crimes for allowing it to happen? This is ridiculous. You take a concentrated population of violent criminals and you place them all in the same vicinity... what do you think is going to happen? They are violent offenders with a propensity for violence... only this time... for some... the shoe is on the other foot- they play the victim.
The prisons do not promote these behaviours and do take steps to curb the violence within their walls. Unfortunately... some prisons are brimming with poorly behaving people and the mechanisms in place to safeguard some inmates are stressed. Short of isolating every prisoner from each other, how exactly do you propose we stop the violence you speak of?
On the flip side... where we could think about charging the government is when they release an offender into mainstream society and an innocent person is hurt because so. To me... this is grievous, irresponsible and negligent because the sentence was either too light to begin with or cut short in error.
Didn't you just say that you thought death was too easy for Ariel Castro? From that I had assumed that you'd changed your mind on this issue.... I assumed that you thought killing criminals basically let them off the hook.
A mistaken assumption. Death by his own hand, at a time of his own choosing, in a manner of his own choosing, is far too easy a punishment for Arial Castro. Those condemned to die via the death penalty are afforded none of those choices.
Plus, he cut a deal to avoid the death penalty. His sentence was life in prison, a sentence he has now escaped. Far too easy.
So in your opinion, the point of the death penalty is not to rid the world of the person (suicide takes care of that just as well but without a murderous government), but to exact revenge.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I agree, it is very distasteful and rather macabre for people to make all the rape comments. Everyone should only be horrified that such things go on within prisons... They should also keep in mind that not everyone in prison is a child murderer, or a murderer, or a violent criminal in any way, yet are subjected to the same culture of brutality in prison (a culture that tends to make those who will be released MORE likely to re-offend rather than less). It's all bad and shouldn't be talked about as though it's just another form of punishment and revenge against psychopaths.
It not only shouldn't be talked about and applauded like some people do, but it should be STOPPED. If it is such a common practice that it's widely accepted that it WILL happen to prisoners, than our government should be charged with crimes for allowing it to happen.
Huh?
Firstly... nobody on this forum is applauding violence within our prison system. I'm not too sure where these posts are coming from?
Secondly... what are you talking about when you say we should charge the government with crimes for allowing it to happen? This is ridiculous. You take a concentrated population of violent criminals and you place them all in the same vicinity... what do you think is going to happen? They are violent offenders with a propensity for violence... only this time... for some... the shoe is on the other foot- they play the victim.
The prisons do not promote these behaviours and do take steps to curb the violence within their walls. Unfortunately... some prisons are brimming with poorly behaving people and the mechanisms in place to safeguard some inmates are stressed. Short of isolating every prisoner from each other, how exactly do you propose we stop the violence you speak of?
On the flip side... where we could think about charging the government is when they release an offender into mainstream society and an innocent person is hurt because so. To me... this is grievous, irresponsible and negligent because the sentence was either too light to begin with or cut short in error.
Who should get charged for a crime is the corrections officers who turn a blind eye, and in some cases even take bribes to do so, thus facilitating violent crime.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No, it is the ultimate punishment reserved for the ultimate crimes. And it does solve the problem 100% of the time. Not a single murderer executed by the state has ever or will ever kill again.
And you are okay with a few innocent people getting killed along the way? There will never be a system created where this will not happen and this is what's happening right now with our current system to which you now support.
No, I am not. As I have stated previously in this thread, the problem with the death penalty is that it is used far too often. We are all aware of cases where, regardless of a jury's verdict, there is still a reasonable question of guilt. The death penalty should never be applied in these cases. That is why innocents are put to death. At the same time we are also aware of cases where guilt is not in question. There is a time and a place for the death penalty to be used.
'Situational' if certain conditions have been met. In particular, the very nature of the crime (children, serial, mass, bondage and torture) and the elements used to establish guilt (pictures, video, DNA, multiple eyewitness testimony, and confessions).
You could also flip the question: are people okay with a few innocents being killed because we do not eliminate the threat? Refer to the case I submitted in a post a while back that illustrated a serial killer killing a fellow inmate.
Didn't you just say that you thought death was too easy for Ariel Castro? From that I had assumed that you'd changed your mind on this issue.... I assumed that you thought killing criminals basically let them off the hook.
A mistaken assumption. Death by his own hand, at a time of his own choosing, in a manner of his own choosing, is far too easy a punishment for Arial Castro. Those condemned to die via the death penalty are afforded none of those choices.
Plus, he cut a deal to avoid the death penalty. His sentence was life in prison, a sentence he has now escaped. Far too easy.
So in your opinion, the point of the death penalty is not to rid the world of the person (suicide takes care of that just as well but without a murderous government), but to exact revenge.
The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.
Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.
A mistaken assumption. Death by his own hand, at a time of his own choosing, in a manner of his own choosing, is far too easy a punishment for Arial Castro. Those condemned to die via the death penalty are afforded none of those choices.
Plus, he cut a deal to avoid the death penalty. His sentence was life in prison, a sentence he has now escaped. Far too easy.
So in your opinion, the point of the death penalty is not to rid the world of the person (suicide takes care of that just as well but without a murderous government), but to exact revenge.
The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.
Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.
Well, as I said before, I think it would be great if all violent criminals were just provided a noose or a glass of cyanide, and if they want to kill themselves instead of taking up space in prison, great. Gets rid of the problem without the negative implications of the death penalty.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Firstly... nobody on this forum is applauding violence within our prison system. I'm not too sure where these posts are coming from?
Secondly... what are you talking about when you say we should charge the government with crimes for allowing it to happen? This is ridiculous. You take a concentrated population of violent criminals and you place them all in the same vicinity... what do you think is going to happen? They are violent offenders with a propensity for violence... only this time... for some... the shoe is on the other foot- they play the victim.
The prisons do not promote these behaviours and do take steps to curb the violence within their walls. Unfortunately... some prisons are brimming with poorly behaving people and the mechanisms in place to safeguard some inmates are stressed. Short of isolating every prisoner from each other, how exactly do you propose we stop the violence you speak of?
On the flip side... where we could think about charging the government is when they release an offender into mainstream society and an innocent person is hurt because so. To me... this is grievous, irresponsible and negligent because the sentence was either too light to begin with or cut short in error.
Who should get charged for a crime is the corrections officers who turn a blind eye, and in some cases even take bribes to do so.
I was thinking more along the lines of those case workers so eager to have their subjects released to... I don't know... validate their work? Why some are so anxious to get people with intensely violent dispositions released back into public is perplexing to say the least.
And you are okay with a few innocent people getting killed along the way? There will never be a system created where this will not happen and this is what's happening right now with our current system to which you now support.
No, I am not. As I have stated previously in this thread, the problem with the death penalty is that it is used far too often. We are all aware of cases where, regardless of a jury's verdict, there is still a reasonable question of guilt. The death penalty should never be applied in these cases. That is why innocents are put to death. At the same time we are also aware of cases where guilt is not in question. There is a time and a place for the death penalty to be used.
'Situational' if certain conditions have been met. In particular, the very nature of the crime (children, serial, mass, bondage and torture) and the elements used to establish guilt (pictures, video, DNA, multiple eyewitness testimony, and confessions).
You could also flip the question: are people okay with a few innocents being killed because we do not eliminate the threat? Refer to the case I submitted in a post a while back that illustrated a serial killer killing a fellow inmate.
Agreed. I'm not sure what we say to the families of those who were killed by convicted murderers after they have been sentenced to prison.
Well, as I said before, I think it would be great if all violent criminals were just provided a noose or a glass of cyanide, and if they want to kill themselves instead of taking up space in prison, great. Gets rid of the problem without the negative implications of the death penalty.
So you are okay with the 'product'... just not the 'process'?
Firstly... nobody on this forum is applauding violence within our prison system. I'm not too sure where these posts are coming from?
Secondly... what are you talking about when you say we should charge the government with crimes for allowing it to happen? This is ridiculous. You take a concentrated population of violent criminals and you place them all in the same vicinity... what do you think is going to happen? They are violent offenders with a propensity for violence... only this time... for some... the shoe is on the other foot- they play the victim.
The prisons do not promote these behaviours and do take steps to curb the violence within their walls. Unfortunately... some prisons are brimming with poorly behaving people and the mechanisms in place to safeguard some inmates are stressed. Short of isolating every prisoner from each other, how exactly do you propose we stop the violence you speak of?
On the flip side... where we could think about charging the government is when they release an offender into mainstream society and an innocent person is hurt because so. To me... this is grievous, irresponsible and negligent because the sentence was either too light to begin with or cut short in error.
You really haven't noticed how anytime a particularly notorious criminal is caught, a bunch of people on these forums will make comments about how they'll get what they deserve when they're in prison and the other prisoners get their hands on them? It's actually pretty common...and it's actually pretty sickening.
What I am saying is that it seems to be a basic certainty that prisoners will be raped in prison. If it's a certainty - and rape is certainly not an applicable punishment within our criminal laws - then it is a complete failure by our government and we're essentially sentencing people to rape. That is wrong, in my opinion.
It would be one thing if it occasionally happened despite our best efforts, but if it's always happening and we're not doing anything about it (and some people apparently even are gleeful about it) then we're doing something criminal.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.
Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.
It's still death. If you're disappointed we weren't allowed to murder him, then it is about revenge for you.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Firstly... nobody on this forum is applauding violence within our prison system. I'm not too sure where these posts are coming from?
Secondly... what are you talking about when you say we should charge the government with crimes for allowing it to happen? This is ridiculous. You take a concentrated population of violent criminals and you place them all in the same vicinity... what do you think is going to happen? They are violent offenders with a propensity for violence... only this time... for some... the shoe is on the other foot- they play the victim.
The prisons do not promote these behaviours and do take steps to curb the violence within their walls. Unfortunately... some prisons are brimming with poorly behaving people and the mechanisms in place to safeguard some inmates are stressed. Short of isolating every prisoner from each other, how exactly do you propose we stop the violence you speak of?
On the flip side... where we could think about charging the government is when they release an offender into mainstream society and an innocent person is hurt because so. To me... this is grievous, irresponsible and negligent because the sentence was either too light to begin with or cut short in error.
You really haven't noticed how anytime a particularly notorious criminal is caught, a bunch of people on these forums will make comments about how they'll get what they deserve when they're in prison and the other prisoners get their hands on them? It's actually pretty common...and it's actually pretty sickening.
What I am saying is that it seems to be a basic certainty that prisoners will be raped in prison. If it's a certainty - and rape is certainly not an applicable punishment within our criminal laws - then it is a complete failure by our government and we're essentially sentencing people to rape. That is wrong, in my opinion.
It would be one thing if it occasionally happened despite our best efforts, but if it's always happening and we're not doing anything about it (and some people apparently even are gleeful about it) then we're doing something criminal.
As distasteful as those comments might be... I view them as more or less people venting their outrage. There are certainly some who might be more serious than others, but it's fair to say that people say things they don't really mena when they are emotionally charged. Let's not judge too harshly given what they might be repsonding to and the moment they are doing so.
I'm not going to argue with much of what you are saying. There is a moral component to the siituation that begs consideration. However... I would disagree with your statement where you say it is with certainty that rape will occur. This is an exaggeration.
The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.
Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.
It's still death. If you're disappointed we weren't allowed to murder him, then it is about revenge for you.
No, it isn't. If it was all the same then Castro would have had no reason to bargain his way out of the death penalty only to turn around and commit suicide. He knew this was an easier way out and he took it.
I am disappointed he was able to escape his punishment. We all should be. If you want to believe that is about revenge go right ahead.
Firstly... nobody on this forum is applauding violence within our prison system. I'm not too sure where these posts are coming from?
Secondly... what are you talking about when you say we should charge the government with crimes for allowing it to happen? This is ridiculous. You take a concentrated population of violent criminals and you place them all in the same vicinity... what do you think is going to happen? They are violent offenders with a propensity for violence... only this time... for some... the shoe is on the other foot- they play the victim.
The prisons do not promote these behaviours and do take steps to curb the violence within their walls. Unfortunately... some prisons are brimming with poorly behaving people and the mechanisms in place to safeguard some inmates are stressed. Short of isolating every prisoner from each other, how exactly do you propose we stop the violence you speak of?
On the flip side... where we could think about charging the government is when they release an offender into mainstream society and an innocent person is hurt because so. To me... this is grievous, irresponsible and negligent because the sentence was either too light to begin with or cut short in error.
Who should get charged for a crime is the corrections officers who turn a blind eye, and in some cases even take bribes to do so.
I was thinking more along the lines of those case workers so eager to have their subjects released to... I don't know... validate their work? Why some are so anxious to get people with intensely violent dispositions released back into public is perplexing to say the least.
I'm under the impression that those case workers are pressured to do that (and their supervisors are pressured to pressure them) because of the lack of space and/or program funding in prisons.... which would mean that the responsibility goes back to the government after all.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well, as I said before, I think it would be great if all violent criminals were just provided a noose or a glass of cyanide, and if they want to kill themselves instead of taking up space in prison, great. Gets rid of the problem without the negative implications of the death penalty.
So you are okay with the 'product'... just not the 'process'?
I could not care less if someone chooses to take their own life (I mean, except for the sadness of it in normal cases) - if the world is better off without them, so much the better. My problem is murder, not suicide.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
yeah i know prison guards (including dad) who prevented rapes. there was a big fucking dude who was what they called a aggresive homosexual/rape artist & so on.
he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.
i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.
yeah i know prison guards (including dad) who prevented rapes. there was a big fucking dude who was what they called a aggresive homosexual/rape artist & so on.
he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.
i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.
yeah i know prison guards (including dad) who prevented rapes. there was a big fucking dude who was what they called a aggresive homosexual/rape artist & so on.
he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.
i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.
yeah i know prison guards (including dad) who prevented rapes. there was a big fucking dude who was what they called a aggresive homosexual/rape artist & so on.
he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.
i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.
as a matter of fact, prison guards fight to protect inmates in protective custody & others locked up who may need a helping hand. turn a back to a bit of gambling, drug use or dealing or someone who has extra toothpaste or more cds than they are supposed to have.
i know a guard who was beat nearly to death with a mop ringer as he tried protecting a inmate who was himself being beat with the mop ringer. then out of nowhere a family friend (ray) tackled this massive animal & made him cry for his mother. ray saved two peoples' lives, one a fellow officer & the other a prisoner
i have never ever in 47 billion years ever heard of officers allowing animal rapists to rape. this is a bullshit hollywood story telling tactic
as a matter of fact, prison guards fight to protect inmates in protective custody & others locked up who may need a helping hand. turn a back to a bit of gambling, drug use or dealing or someone who has extra toothpaste or more cds than they are supposed to have.
i know a guard who was beat nearly to death with a mop ringer as he tried protecting a inmate who was himself being beat with the mop ringer. then out of nowhere a family friend (ray) tackled this massive animal & made him cry for his mother. ray saved two peoples' lives, one a fellow officer & the other a prisoner
i have never ever in 47 billion years ever heard of officers allowing animal rapists to rape. this is a bullshit hollywood story telling tactic
I think that's crazy talk. There is corruption among corrections officers big time, and corrections attracts fucking power hungry crazies too. That doesn't mean that the majority aren't doing their best. But just like with every single job where people hold positions of power (politics, police, corrections), and ESPECIALLY in prison corrections where they hold more direct power, physically and emotionally, over their wards, there is abuse and corruption. Very naive to think otherwise (especially when there is real evidence to prove it, including witnesses and whistleblowers). Ever seen that famous study where they get normal people into that position as a psychological study, and how fast the subjects of the study morphed into an abuse of power situation?
And let's not forget the sexual abuse, and, much more commonly, the sexual harassment committed by guards in women's prisons.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
here, i'll back up a notch & reword some things. sure, corruption exists. do i believe corrections officers allow inmates to rape each other by turning their backs? not a lot at all, no. 99% do not allow sick fucking shit bag rapists to rape other weaker inmates. maybe they aren't raping them, they could be lovers.
inmates are very well known for lying under oath to get money & or a lower sentence. inmates are allowed a direct number to a prison lawyer & judge, at least in iowa they are. the judge here in the maximum security prison is a screwed up dude, he constantly awards inmates. inmates sue the state of iowa over things like the following: cheese, bread, milk, grass in the yard gave them allergies, a fellow inmate passes gas a lot, they have too much shampoo & the soap storage place is small, the water is too hot, the water is too cold, blah blah blah
the warden raped me, the assisstant warden rapes inmates, the sgt smokes crack during the night shift, those two guards are gay & have orgies w/ inmates, those guards bring in heroin, that female officer gives oral, the list goes on
remember... many a corrections officers been beat for defending inmates in a jam. many a corrections officers were beat so bad they nearly died protecting inmates. here in iowa, guards do not allow rape. i just can't wrap my head around such allegations.
it could happen but it isn't often & it isn't wide spread. on the outside, many have delusions about the inside. again, thank hollywood
So in your opinion, the point of the death penalty is not to rid the world of the person (suicide takes care of that just as well but without a murderous government), but to exact revenge.
The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.
Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.
Well, as I said before, I think it would be great if all violent criminals were just provided a noose or a glass of cyanide, and if they want to kill themselves instead of taking up space in prison, great. Gets rid of the problem without the negative implications of the death penalty.
So the death penalty is wrong, but saying "Kill yourself now or face life in prison" is OK?
I have to imagine that if I was an innocent person wrongly convicted and knowing what prison is like...that noose or glass of cyanide would be looking pretty good.
The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.
Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.
Well, as I said before, I think it would be great if all violent criminals were just provided a noose or a glass of cyanide, and if they want to kill themselves instead of taking up space in prison, great. Gets rid of the problem without the negative implications of the death penalty.
So the death penalty is wrong, but saying "Kill yourself now or face life in prison" is OK?
I have to imagine that if I was an innocent person wrongly convicted and knowing what prison is like...that noose or glass of cyanide would be looking pretty good.
Yes. I am a big supporter of Euthanasia or the right to kill oneself. Don't you think that saying kill yourself now or face a life in prison is okay? I mean, it's already an option that is 100% available to all people who are guilty and are going to spend life in prison. Why not make it so that it's easier to clean up? *shrug*
If I was innocent and wrongly convicted and was being sent to life in prison my ONLY thought would be how I was going to prove my innocence. I doubt that many innocent people are immediately ready to turn to suicide, but if they are there are a lot of ways to do it anyway. If that's the route they want to take, they'll take it either way. But I should think that most people would be horrified, but ready to fight to prove that a mistake had been made and spend every waking moment with the hope that their fight won't be futile. It's just like the theory that only the guilty sleep soundly after being arrested or whatever it is.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
No, I am not. As I have stated previously in this thread, the problem with the death penalty is that it is used far too often. We are all aware of cases where, regardless of a jury's verdict, there is still a reasonable question of guilt. The death penalty should never be applied in these cases. That is why innocents are put to death. At the same time we are also aware of cases where guilt is not in question. There is a time and a place for the death penalty to be used.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
A mistaken assumption. Death by his own hand, at a time of his own choosing, in a manner of his own choosing, is far too easy a punishment for Arial Castro. Those condemned to die via the death penalty are afforded none of those choices.
Plus, he cut a deal to avoid the death penalty. His sentence was life in prison, a sentence he has now escaped. Far too easy.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Huh?
Firstly... nobody on this forum is applauding violence within our prison system. I'm not too sure where these posts are coming from?
Secondly... what are you talking about when you say we should charge the government with crimes for allowing it to happen? This is ridiculous. You take a concentrated population of violent criminals and you place them all in the same vicinity... what do you think is going to happen? They are violent offenders with a propensity for violence... only this time... for some... the shoe is on the other foot- they play the victim.
The prisons do not promote these behaviours and do take steps to curb the violence within their walls. Unfortunately... some prisons are brimming with poorly behaving people and the mechanisms in place to safeguard some inmates are stressed. Short of isolating every prisoner from each other, how exactly do you propose we stop the violence you speak of?
On the flip side... where we could think about charging the government is when they release an offender into mainstream society and an innocent person is hurt because so. To me... this is grievous, irresponsible and negligent because the sentence was either too light to begin with or cut short in error.
'Situational' if certain conditions have been met. In particular, the very nature of the crime (children, serial, mass, bondage and torture) and the elements used to establish guilt (pictures, video, DNA, multiple eyewitness testimony, and confessions).
You could also flip the question: are people okay with a few innocents being killed because we do not eliminate the threat? Refer to the case I submitted in a post a while back that illustrated a serial killer killing a fellow inmate.
The point of the death penalty, in my opinion, is that it is an ultimate and final punishment. I don't equate punishment with revenge. I understand some do.
Suicide in the case of Castro was a coward's way out of facing any punishment at all.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I was thinking more along the lines of those case workers so eager to have their subjects released to... I don't know... validate their work? Why some are so anxious to get people with intensely violent dispositions released back into public is perplexing to say the least.
Agreed. I'm not sure what we say to the families of those who were killed by convicted murderers after they have been sentenced to prison.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
So you are okay with the 'product'... just not the 'process'?
You really haven't noticed how anytime a particularly notorious criminal is caught, a bunch of people on these forums will make comments about how they'll get what they deserve when they're in prison and the other prisoners get their hands on them? It's actually pretty common...and it's actually pretty sickening.
What I am saying is that it seems to be a basic certainty that prisoners will be raped in prison. If it's a certainty - and rape is certainly not an applicable punishment within our criminal laws - then it is a complete failure by our government and we're essentially sentencing people to rape. That is wrong, in my opinion.
It would be one thing if it occasionally happened despite our best efforts, but if it's always happening and we're not doing anything about it (and some people apparently even are gleeful about it) then we're doing something criminal.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It's still death. If you're disappointed we weren't allowed to murder him, then it is about revenge for you.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
As distasteful as those comments might be... I view them as more or less people venting their outrage. There are certainly some who might be more serious than others, but it's fair to say that people say things they don't really mena when they are emotionally charged. Let's not judge too harshly given what they might be repsonding to and the moment they are doing so.
I'm not going to argue with much of what you are saying. There is a moral component to the siituation that begs consideration. However... I would disagree with your statement where you say it is with certainty that rape will occur. This is an exaggeration.
No, it isn't. If it was all the same then Castro would have had no reason to bargain his way out of the death penalty only to turn around and commit suicide. He knew this was an easier way out and he took it.
I am disappointed he was able to escape his punishment. We all should be. If you want to believe that is about revenge go right ahead.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
he was doing his damndest to violently rape this little young guy behind the soda machine. no dad & his pals did not allow this to continue once they came upon the act.
i've never once heard of prison officials turning their backs so a violent rapist could rape a fellow convict.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131113&page=1
200,000 rapes in prison each year? With those numbers, there is no way it's not being willfully ignored.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
How about these ones?
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/ ... rison-rape
http://www.salon.com/1999/08/23/prisons_3/
http://www.justdetention.org/en/survivor_testimony.aspx
i know a guard who was beat nearly to death with a mop ringer as he tried protecting a inmate who was himself being beat with the mop ringer. then out of nowhere a family friend (ray) tackled this massive animal & made him cry for his mother. ray saved two peoples' lives, one a fellow officer & the other a prisoner
i have never ever in 47 billion years ever heard of officers allowing animal rapists to rape. this is a bullshit hollywood story telling tactic
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
say what
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
And let's not forget the sexual abuse, and, much more commonly, the sexual harassment committed by guards in women's prisons.
here, i'll back up a notch & reword some things. sure, corruption exists. do i believe corrections officers allow inmates to rape each other by turning their backs? not a lot at all, no. 99% do not allow sick fucking shit bag rapists to rape other weaker inmates. maybe they aren't raping them, they could be lovers.
inmates are very well known for lying under oath to get money & or a lower sentence. inmates are allowed a direct number to a prison lawyer & judge, at least in iowa they are. the judge here in the maximum security prison is a screwed up dude, he constantly awards inmates. inmates sue the state of iowa over things like the following: cheese, bread, milk, grass in the yard gave them allergies, a fellow inmate passes gas a lot, they have too much shampoo & the soap storage place is small, the water is too hot, the water is too cold, blah blah blah
the warden raped me, the assisstant warden rapes inmates, the sgt smokes crack during the night shift, those two guards are gay & have orgies w/ inmates, those guards bring in heroin, that female officer gives oral, the list goes on
some is true, a lot is not
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
it could happen but it isn't often & it isn't wide spread. on the outside, many have delusions about the inside. again, thank hollywood
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
So the death penalty is wrong, but saying "Kill yourself now or face life in prison" is OK?
I have to imagine that if I was an innocent person wrongly convicted and knowing what prison is like...that noose or glass of cyanide would be looking pretty good.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If I was innocent and wrongly convicted and was being sent to life in prison my ONLY thought would be how I was going to prove my innocence. I doubt that many innocent people are immediately ready to turn to suicide, but if they are there are a lot of ways to do it anyway. If that's the route they want to take, they'll take it either way. But I should think that most people would be horrified, but ready to fight to prove that a mistake had been made and spend every waking moment with the hope that their fight won't be futile. It's just like the theory that only the guilty sleep soundly after being arrested or whatever it is.