Why is it that so many seem to agree that solitary confinement is worse than death? and so many seem content with that ... yet many argue that capital punishment is unjust and in some cases an easy way out. So if this is your line of thinking that solitary is torture then you might be out to see a person suffer, more than anything ... yes/no?
I myself ... solitary should be discontinued ... everyone in general ... no matter the crime. Certain individuals absolutely deserve capital punishment ... those that shall be in the front of the line are those that video tape themselves humiliating their victims.
and the worst part of capital punishment ... most is now by lethal injection ... they get to go to sleep peacefully, very little suffering, maybe some ...
lets face it if these pieces of trash are removed from the earth their is zero chance that they can harm another single human again ... prison doesn't guarantee that ... that's the only deterrent that I care about ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Why is it that so many seem to agree that solitary confinement is worse than death? and so many seem content with that ... yet many argue that capital punishment is unjust and in some cases an easy way out. So if this is your line of thinking that solitary is torture then you might be out to see a person suffer, more than anything ... yes/no?
I myself ... solitary should be discontinued ... everyone in general ... no matter the crime. Certain individuals absolutely deserve capital punishment ... those that shall be in the front of the line are those that video tape themselves humiliating their victims.
Are you calling DP proponents softies on punishment?
What you say is a fair argument to make.
And... I'm right with you with regards to what you see as appropriate for those two shitbirds.
in many instances yes ... for me video taping your crime and humiliating victims that way is where I draw the line, these young ladies went to their death knowing they were video taped and maybe consciously or self consciously they knew others would view these tapes ... horrible, just fucking horrible.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Why is it that so many seem to agree that solitary confinement is worse than death? and so many seem content with that ... yet many argue that capital punishment is unjust and in some cases an easy way out. So if this is your line of thinking that solitary is torture then you might be out to see a person suffer, more than anything ... yes/no?
I myself ... solitary should be discontinued ... everyone in general ... no matter the crime. Certain individuals absolutely deserve capital punishment ... those that shall be in the front of the line are those that video tape themselves humiliating their victims.
no, I only think that solitary should be used in extreme cases where leaving a specific inmate in the general population puts others at risk, especially staff.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Why is it that so many seem to agree that solitary confinement is worse than death? and so many seem content with that ... yet many argue that capital punishment is unjust and in some cases an easy way out. So if this is your line of thinking that solitary is torture then you might be out to see a person suffer, more than anything ... yes/no?
I myself ... solitary should be discontinued ... everyone in general ... no matter the crime. Certain individuals absolutely deserve capital punishment ... those that shall be in the front of the line are those that video tape themselves humiliating their victims.
no, I only think that solitary should be used in extreme cases where leaving a specific inmate in the general population puts others at risk, especially staff.
The scum I mention are kept in solitary to keep them safe ... I want them in general population so they can live in fear, not knowing when or whats coming ... just knowing something unpleasant is coming their way ... sorry I don't share or have compassion for certain people, the crimes I mentioned were not acts of passion or they suddenly snapped, these folks knew what they were doing and my only sympathy is for the family and victims of these horrendous crimes.
these POS should be in general as ... if I thought for a moment that we could trust Afghanistan or Pakistan to carry out the life sentence I'd gladly deport them to a prison there ... in general population of course.
And I guess since theft still occurs, break and enters, armed robberies, etc., we might as well not lock them up, it obviously does not work as a deterrent. To me capital punishment is a deterrent ... it deters those who are condemned from ever harming another single person on earth ... and I only advocate for the extreme cases where there is no doubt.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Why is it that so many seem to agree that solitary confinement is worse than death? and so many seem content with that ... yet many argue that capital punishment is unjust and in some cases an easy way out. So if this is your line of thinking that solitary is torture then you might be out to see a person suffer, more than anything ... yes/no?
I myself ... solitary should be discontinued ... everyone in general ... no matter the crime. Certain individuals absolutely deserve capital punishment ... those that shall be in the front of the line are those that video tape themselves humiliating their victims.
no, I only think that solitary should be used in extreme cases where leaving a specific inmate in the general population puts others at risk, especially staff.
The scum I mention are kept in solitary to keep them safe ... I want them in general population so they can live in fear, not knowing when or whats coming ... just knowing something unpleasant is coming their way ... sorry I don't share or have compassion for certain people, the crimes I mentioned were not acts of passion or they suddenly snapped, these folks knew what they were doing and my only sympathy is for the family and victims of these horrendous crimes.
these POS should be in general as ... if I thought for a moment that we could trust Afghanistan or Pakistan to carry out the life sentence I'd gladly deport them to a prison there ... in general population of course.
And I guess since theft still occurs, break and enters, armed robberies, etc., we might as well not lock them up, it obviously does not work as a deterrent. To me capital punishment is a deterrent ... it deters those who are condemned from ever harming another single person on earth ... and I only advocate for the extreme cases where there is no doubt.
please look again and see where most of my concern lies.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
and the worst part of capital punishment ... most is now by lethal injection ... they get to go to sleep peacefully, very little suffering, maybe some ...
lets face it if these pieces of trash are removed from the earth their is zero chance that they can harm another single human again ... prison doesn't guarantee that ... that's the only deterrent that I care about ...
And it's okay for few innocents to be thrown in the mix. Just as long as we get to see the bad ones fry.
Blood and vengeance such wonderful human qualities.
You wish to contribute in this capacity? Okay... I'll offer this:
Minimizing the rape and murder of our children makes one so much more enlightened.
Stooping to murderer's level is sad state of mind.
Caring more for the murderer than the murdered is outrageous.
And speaking of stooping... are we done with this extremely juvenile dialogue yet? You have offered several posts recently in this thread... but none of them offer anything thought-provoking. They all tend to reflect your personal position on this controversial topic.
We get it: you are opposed to the death penalty. Congratulations for having an opinion.
Caring more for the murderer than the murdered is outrageous.
once again, thirty, that's a pretty monumental leap you just made there.
There's a bit of context from which that comment was spawned from, Hugh. I think it's well within the field of play and very fair given the monumental leaps a poster arguing against the death penalty was making.
Remember when it was essentially said that people supporting the death penalty are pathetic, bloodthirsty, and well below the morally upstanding people who oppose the death penalty are? I noticed you haven't made reference to any of those comments as 'a leap' though. I am assuming because they suit your beliefs? It's hard to be objective, eh?
No. In a mud flinging argument... I'll stand by the comments I made.
To my last comment... I'm guilty of allowing myself to be dragged into a mud slinging argument. It's like being out at the lake when an insect continues to buzz around your head and you feebily wave at it instead of ignoring it until it goes away. Even if it does fly away... another insect will come along and the entire process is started anew.
I remembered some rather simple comments being made in the Trayvon thread by the same poster. I went back to look and sure enough... just in the last pages alone... 'beer muscles' and 'puss' were used in seven consecutive posts in reference to a man found innocent by the courts of law- hardly establishing a level of thought and reason I typically like to engage with.
and the worst part of capital punishment ... most is now by lethal injection ... they get to go to sleep peacefully, very little suffering, maybe some ...
lets face it if these pieces of trash are removed from the earth their is zero chance that they can harm another single human again ... prison doesn't guarantee that ... that's the only deterrent that I care about ...
And it's okay for few innocents to be thrown in the mix. Just as long as we get to see the bad ones fry.
Well actually ... I've only advocated to have capital punishment carried out on those that have committed the most heinous of acts and guilt is not questioned. I even listed a few. As for the rest GP is where they should reside.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
no, I only think that solitary should be used in extreme cases where leaving a specific inmate in the general population puts others at risk, especially staff.
The scum I mention are kept in solitary to keep them safe ... I want them in general population so they can live in fear, not knowing when or whats coming ... just knowing something unpleasant is coming their way ... sorry I don't share or have compassion for certain people, the crimes I mentioned were not acts of passion or they suddenly snapped, these folks knew what they were doing and my only sympathy is for the family and victims of these horrendous crimes.
these POS should be in general as ... if I thought for a moment that we could trust Afghanistan or Pakistan to carry out the life sentence I'd gladly deport them to a prison there ... in general population of course.
And I guess since theft still occurs, break and enters, armed robberies, etc., we might as well not lock them up, it obviously does not work as a deterrent. To me capital punishment is a deterrent ... it deters those who are condemned from ever harming another single person on earth ... and I only advocate for the extreme cases where there is no doubt.
please look again and see where most of my concern lies.
Solitary is just isolation 23 hours a day ... Staff still have to deal with these degenerates ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Caring more for the murderer than the murdered is outrageous.
once again, thirty, that's a pretty monumental leap you just made there.
There's a bit of context from which that comment was spawned from, Hugh. I think it's well within the field of play and very fair given the monumental leaps a poster arguing against the death penalty was making.
Remember when it was essentially said that people supporting the death penalty are pathetic, bloodthirsty, and well below the morally upstanding people who oppose the death penalty are? I noticed you haven't made reference to any of those comments as 'a leap' though. I am assuming because they suit your beliefs? It's hard to be objective, eh?
No. In a mud flinging argument... I'll stand by the comments I made.
actually, no. your assumption is completely false. And I stated that quite clearly very early on in the thread.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Blood and vengeance such wonderful human qualities
You wish to contribute in this capacity? Okay... I'll offer this:
Minimizing the rape and murder of our children makes one so much more enlightened.
Stooping to murderer's level is sad state of mind.
Caring more for the murderer than the murdered is outrageous.
And speaking of stooping... are we done with this extremely juvenile dialogue yet? You have offered several posts recently in this thread... but none of them offer anything thought-provoking. They all tend to reflect your personal position on this controversial topic.
We get it: you are opposed to the death penalty. Congratulations for having an opinion.
See actually what I'm attempting to do is break this down to its root emotions and motivations. We can cite extreme examples, but till we look at the reasons we feel the way we do, we'll not progress as a society. Feel my short comments do raise emotions and hits to the core of why I feel capital punishment is wrong for a civilized society. If it doesnt' fit your feelings, don't take it personally, its just a discussion board.
As to gun muscles..its just that, an insecure human that now possess's this power they would not have ordinarily gained as we, as a human species, have evolved over millions of years. And because of this, humans CAN"T handle guns. We dont' have the mental capacity to do so. And Zimmerman is a classic example of a total pussy that allowed his insecurities to over run his ass and a teenager died because of it. Note I reluctantly am for the right to bear arms as the cats allready out of the bag.
Humans can't handle guns, and civilized humans don't execute their own no matter the reason. These are my opinions but beleive they hold true...
and the worst part of capital punishment ... most is now by lethal injection ... they get to go to sleep peacefully, very little suffering, maybe some ...
lets face it if these pieces of trash are removed from the earth their is zero chance that they can harm another single human again ... prison doesn't guarantee that ... that's the only deterrent that I care about ...
And it's okay for few innocents to be thrown in the mix. Just as long as we get to see the bad ones fry.
Well actually ... I've only advocated to have capital punishment carried out on those that have committed the most heinous of acts and guilt is not questioned. I even listed a few. As for the rest GP is where they should reside.
Lukin:
So as this isn't the case right now in the US...and we will continue to sentence innocent people to die (yes very small percentage) you are currently in favour of putting a moritorium on executions till they meet your threshold?
There's a bit of context from which that comment was spawned from, Hugh. I think it's well within the field of play and very fair given the monumental leaps a poster arguing against the death penalty was making.
Remember when it was essentially said that people supporting the death penalty are pathetic, bloodthirsty, and well below the morally upstanding people who oppose the death penalty are? I noticed you haven't made reference to any of those comments as 'a leap' though. I am assuming because they suit your beliefs? It's hard to be objective, eh?
No. In a mud flinging argument... I'll stand by the comments I made.
actually, no. your assumption is completely false. And I stated that quite clearly very early on in the thread.
Hugh...
The point to me making them was to illustrate that one can make broad based generalizations that tend to lend support to their position by belittling their opponent, but the other side can do the same. These tactics don't lend themselves well to fruitful discussion as much as they promote petty arguments (such as the one very recent on this thread).
Callen, so you are against guns but support the notion of the 'right to bear arms' .....merely because the 'cat is out of the bag'.
is this not a little defeatist? sure change is never easy, but the whole concept of a right to bear arms seems to me - an outsider in terms of the USA - to be absolutely ridiculous.
Caring more for the murderer than the murdered is outrageous.
And speaking of stooping... are we done with this extremely juvenile dialogue yet? You have offered several posts recently in this thread... but none of them offer anything thought-provoking. They all tend to reflect your personal position on this controversial topic.
We get it: you are opposed to the death penalty. Congratulations for having an opinion.
See actually what I'm attempting to do is break this down to its root emotions and motivations. We can cite extreme examples, but till we look at the reasons we feel the way we do, we'll not progress as a society. Feel my short comments do raise emotions and hits to the core of why I feel capital punishment is wrong for a civilized society. If it doesnt' fit your feelings, don't take it personally, its just a discussion board.
As to gun muscles..its just that, an insecure human that now possess's this power they would not have ordinarily gained as we, as a human species, have evolved over millions of years. And because of this, humans CAN"T handle guns. We dont' have the mental capacity to do so. And Zimmerman is a classic example of a total pussy that allowed his insecurities to over run his ass and a teenager died because of it. Note I reluctantly am for the right to bear arms as the cats allready out of the bag.
Humans can't handle guns, and civilized humans don't execute their own no matter the reason. These are my opinions but beleive they hold true...
Peace
You are not going to get an argument from me regarding guns. I have strongly advocated for the most rigid measures of gun control and limiting the types of weapons citizens should be able to own.
I wish to restate that I do not promote the death penalty for all murders. Murders of children, the serial or mass variety and/or involving torture are all factors that would contribute to a death verdict in my world.
I recognize the moral conundrum, but I stand by what I feel as well. I think it is wrong to suggest we need to remove emotion from the equation. Emotions are strong human qualities and drivers for much of what is good on this earth. Left to deal with the obscenity that was cruelly forced upon them, parents of murdered children have been left a shell of their former self and their one existence on this planet has been obliterated through the depraved act of a monster that, given his actions, deserves nothing. In many instances, communities have been rocked for what might have occurred in their neighbourhood under their eyes. Being outraged is normal. Turning off your emotions is not- it's forced and a deliberate maneuver to deny what I believe to be the natural order. Clifford Olson raped, tortured and murdered 11 children. Death was a fitting and obvious consequence of his actions, yet we, pretending to be 'above the murderer', offered him a lovely little time on this earth that was in stark contrast to the cold depravity he offered his victims in their dying moments and the agony he offered their parents. If death to Olson offered parents who demanded it a chance at a level of peace... then we should have provided that to them. Instead they were subjected to hearing of that idiots exploits in prison as he continued to torment them while in custody.
You have spoken about terms at their core level... if we refuse to grant an appropriate measure of justice to the survivors and seek to protect the depraved murderer... this makes us indifferent to the survivors needs and supportive of the murderer. How can this be denied?
You have spoken about terms at their core level... if we refuse to grant an appropriate measure of justice to the survivors and seek to protect the depraved murderer... this makes us indifferent to the survivors needs and supportive of the murderer. How can this be denied?
I think it's important that you understand the difference between protecting a depraved murderer, and what anti-DP people are actually doing, and that's highlighting the incredible importance of protecting everyone's right to life.
people who are staunchly pro-life believe so regardless of circumstance, no matter the potential cost to society, the mother, etc.
much like preserving the integrity of the justice system, we have let killers go free on a technicality (police found a body in the trunk but it was an unlawful search, for example). Is it wrong? Is it outrageous? Of course it is. But in order to maintain the integrity of the system, it needs to be done. As horrifying as it may be.
It's no different to me with regards to the death penalty. Does this piece of shit deserve to die? Maybe. But just as its not the police's/judge's/jury's place to decide to circumvent the law in order to get the desired result, nor is it anyone's right circumvent the natural law by putting a human being to death in order to get the desired result.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Callen, so you are against guns but support the notion of the 'right to bear arms' .....merely because the 'cat is out of the bag'.
is this not a little defeatist? sure change is never easy, but the whole concept of a right to bear arms seems to me - an outsider in terms of the USA - to be absolutely ridiculous.
PD...live in outskirts of Houston....every one of my neighbors has an arsenal both in their house and on their person....just being a realist. In a perfect USA we'd all "Lay down your Arms" (one of my fav PJ songs, covers) but its just not going to happen...in my lifetime.
Callen, so you are against guns but support the notion of the 'right to bear arms' .....merely because the 'cat is out of the bag'.
is this not a little defeatist? sure change is never easy, but the whole concept of a right to bear arms seems to me - an outsider in terms of the USA - to be absolutely ridiculous.
PD...live in outskirts of Houston....every one of my neighbors has an arsenal both in their house and on their person....just being a realist. In a perfect USA we'd all "Lay down your Arms" (one of my fav PJ songs, covers) but its just not going to happen...in my lifetime.
oh I understand that
and I find that truly sad.
But honestly ? I wouldn't be able to own a weapon, and wouldn't do so, because you know I very much doubt I could use one.
You have spoken about terms at their core level... if we refuse to grant an appropriate measure of justice to the survivors and seek to protect the depraved murderer... this makes us indifferent to the survivors needs and supportive of the murderer. How can this be denied?
I think it's important that you understand the difference between protecting a depraved murderer, and what anti-DP people are actually doing, and that's highlighting the incredible importance of protecting everyone's right to life.
...
It's no different to me with regards to the death penalty. Does this piece of shit deserve to die? Maybe. But just as its not the police's/judge's/jury's place to decide to circumvent the law in order to get the desired result, nor is it anyone's right circumvent the natural law by putting a human being to death in order to get the desired result.
I'm pretty surre I understand what anti-DP people are doing. I just think in some cases, their ideology is misplaced. There are always exceptions and I contend that people such as Olson are exceptions. We wished they hadn't, but they willingly made themselves the exception by succumbing to their sick fantasies.
Everyone does have a right to life. The kids who Olson killed had a right to life... but Olson was obviously indifferent to that. If Olson had not killed 11 kids, his life would hold immense value; however, he forfeited his right to life when he stepped way out of bounds. I hold the opinion that one cannot expect rights when they so wantonly ignore them for their own sick pleasures.
"Mr. Olson, even though you blatantly ignored the principles of a person's right to life as you raped, tortured and murdered 11 children, our principles are such that we still wish to uphold your right to life!"
or
"Mr. Olson, your cold acts of depravity have left us no choice but to forfeit your right to life and sentence you to death. The nature of your offences is such that leniancy in any capacity is inconceivable. May your passing bring some level of comfort to those who's lives you have destroyed."
I'm pretty surre I understand what anti-DP people are doing. I just think in some cases, their ideology is misplaced.
.......
....he forfeited his right to life.....
if you truly understand it, then stop saying I/we are defending "the sick and depraved". I am not telling you you are morally inferior to me, so I expect the same respect.
it is my belief that it is up to no one to decide who forfeits a life and who doesn't. to me it's as simple as that, and I don't believe that will ever change.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The case in India will be of interest tomorrow when the world watches that sentencing.
The parents of that young lady are demanding the death penalty.......
the 4 accused are found guilty, but the law when they committed the crimes did not provide for death, it has been changed since their brutal attack, so should that option even be available?
Comments
Are you calling DP proponents softies on punishment?
What you say is a fair argument to make.
And... I'm right with you with regards to what you see as appropriate for those two shitbirds.
lets face it if these pieces of trash are removed from the earth their is zero chance that they can harm another single human again ... prison doesn't guarantee that ... that's the only deterrent that I care about ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
in many instances yes ... for me video taping your crime and humiliating victims that way is where I draw the line, these young ladies went to their death knowing they were video taped and maybe consciously or self consciously they knew others would view these tapes ... horrible, just fucking horrible.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
no, I only think that solitary should be used in extreme cases where leaving a specific inmate in the general population puts others at risk, especially staff.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The scum I mention are kept in solitary to keep them safe ... I want them in general population so they can live in fear, not knowing when or whats coming ... just knowing something unpleasant is coming their way ... sorry I don't share or have compassion for certain people, the crimes I mentioned were not acts of passion or they suddenly snapped, these folks knew what they were doing and my only sympathy is for the family and victims of these horrendous crimes.
these POS should be in general as ... if I thought for a moment that we could trust Afghanistan or Pakistan to carry out the life sentence I'd gladly deport them to a prison there ... in general population of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders
And I guess since theft still occurs, break and enters, armed robberies, etc., we might as well not lock them up, it obviously does not work as a deterrent. To me capital punishment is a deterrent ... it deters those who are condemned from ever harming another single person on earth ... and I only advocate for the extreme cases where there is no doubt.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You wish to contribute in this capacity? Okay... I'll offer this:
Minimizing the rape and murder of our children makes one so much more enlightened.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
please look again and see where most of my concern lies.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Caring more for the murderer than the murdered is outrageous.
And speaking of stooping... are we done with this extremely juvenile dialogue yet? You have offered several posts recently in this thread... but none of them offer anything thought-provoking. They all tend to reflect your personal position on this controversial topic.
We get it: you are opposed to the death penalty. Congratulations for having an opinion.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
once again, thirty, that's a pretty monumental leap you just made there.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
There's a bit of context from which that comment was spawned from, Hugh. I think it's well within the field of play and very fair given the monumental leaps a poster arguing against the death penalty was making.
Remember when it was essentially said that people supporting the death penalty are pathetic, bloodthirsty, and well below the morally upstanding people who oppose the death penalty are? I noticed you haven't made reference to any of those comments as 'a leap' though. I am assuming because they suit your beliefs? It's hard to be objective, eh?
No. In a mud flinging argument... I'll stand by the comments I made.
I remembered some rather simple comments being made in the Trayvon thread by the same poster. I went back to look and sure enough... just in the last pages alone... 'beer muscles' and 'puss' were used in seven consecutive posts in reference to a man found innocent by the courts of law- hardly establishing a level of thought and reason I typically like to engage with.
Well actually ... I've only advocated to have capital punishment carried out on those that have committed the most heinous of acts and guilt is not questioned. I even listed a few. As for the rest GP is where they should reside.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Solitary is just isolation 23 hours a day ... Staff still have to deal with these degenerates ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
actually, no. your assumption is completely false. And I stated that quite clearly very early on in the thread.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
As to gun muscles..its just that, an insecure human that now possess's this power they would not have ordinarily gained as we, as a human species, have evolved over millions of years. And because of this, humans CAN"T handle guns. We dont' have the mental capacity to do so. And Zimmerman is a classic example of a total pussy that allowed his insecurities to over run his ass and a teenager died because of it. Note I reluctantly am for the right to bear arms as the cats allready out of the bag.
Humans can't handle guns, and civilized humans don't execute their own no matter the reason. These are my opinions but beleive they hold true...
Peace
So as this isn't the case right now in the US...and we will continue to sentence innocent people to die (yes very small percentage) you are currently in favour of putting a moritorium on executions till they meet your threshold?
Callen
Hugh...
The point to me making them was to illustrate that one can make broad based generalizations that tend to lend support to their position by belittling their opponent, but the other side can do the same. These tactics don't lend themselves well to fruitful discussion as much as they promote petty arguments (such as the one very recent on this thread).
is this not a little defeatist? sure change is never easy, but the whole concept of a right to bear arms seems to me - an outsider in terms of the USA - to be absolutely ridiculous.
You are not going to get an argument from me regarding guns. I have strongly advocated for the most rigid measures of gun control and limiting the types of weapons citizens should be able to own.
I wish to restate that I do not promote the death penalty for all murders. Murders of children, the serial or mass variety and/or involving torture are all factors that would contribute to a death verdict in my world.
I recognize the moral conundrum, but I stand by what I feel as well. I think it is wrong to suggest we need to remove emotion from the equation. Emotions are strong human qualities and drivers for much of what is good on this earth. Left to deal with the obscenity that was cruelly forced upon them, parents of murdered children have been left a shell of their former self and their one existence on this planet has been obliterated through the depraved act of a monster that, given his actions, deserves nothing. In many instances, communities have been rocked for what might have occurred in their neighbourhood under their eyes. Being outraged is normal. Turning off your emotions is not- it's forced and a deliberate maneuver to deny what I believe to be the natural order. Clifford Olson raped, tortured and murdered 11 children. Death was a fitting and obvious consequence of his actions, yet we, pretending to be 'above the murderer', offered him a lovely little time on this earth that was in stark contrast to the cold depravity he offered his victims in their dying moments and the agony he offered their parents. If death to Olson offered parents who demanded it a chance at a level of peace... then we should have provided that to them. Instead they were subjected to hearing of that idiots exploits in prison as he continued to torment them while in custody.
You have spoken about terms at their core level... if we refuse to grant an appropriate measure of justice to the survivors and seek to protect the depraved murderer... this makes us indifferent to the survivors needs and supportive of the murderer. How can this be denied?
I think it's important that you understand the difference between protecting a depraved murderer, and what anti-DP people are actually doing, and that's highlighting the incredible importance of protecting everyone's right to life.
people who are staunchly pro-life believe so regardless of circumstance, no matter the potential cost to society, the mother, etc.
much like preserving the integrity of the justice system, we have let killers go free on a technicality (police found a body in the trunk but it was an unlawful search, for example). Is it wrong? Is it outrageous? Of course it is. But in order to maintain the integrity of the system, it needs to be done. As horrifying as it may be.
It's no different to me with regards to the death penalty. Does this piece of shit deserve to die? Maybe. But just as its not the police's/judge's/jury's place to decide to circumvent the law in order to get the desired result, nor is it anyone's right circumvent the natural law by putting a human being to death in order to get the desired result.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
oh I understand that
and I find that truly sad.
But honestly ? I wouldn't be able to own a weapon, and wouldn't do so, because you know I very much doubt I could use one.
I'm pretty surre I understand what anti-DP people are doing. I just think in some cases, their ideology is misplaced. There are always exceptions and I contend that people such as Olson are exceptions. We wished they hadn't, but they willingly made themselves the exception by succumbing to their sick fantasies.
Everyone does have a right to life. The kids who Olson killed had a right to life... but Olson was obviously indifferent to that. If Olson had not killed 11 kids, his life would hold immense value; however, he forfeited his right to life when he stepped way out of bounds. I hold the opinion that one cannot expect rights when they so wantonly ignore them for their own sick pleasures.
"Mr. Olson, even though you blatantly ignored the principles of a person's right to life as you raped, tortured and murdered 11 children, our principles are such that we still wish to uphold your right to life!"
or
"Mr. Olson, your cold acts of depravity have left us no choice but to forfeit your right to life and sentence you to death. The nature of your offences is such that leniancy in any capacity is inconceivable. May your passing bring some level of comfort to those who's lives you have destroyed."
if you truly understand it, then stop saying I/we are defending "the sick and depraved". I am not telling you you are morally inferior to me, so I expect the same respect.
it is my belief that it is up to no one to decide who forfeits a life and who doesn't. to me it's as simple as that, and I don't believe that will ever change.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The parents of that young lady are demanding the death penalty.......
the 4 accused are found guilty, but the law when they committed the crimes did not provide for death, it has been changed since their brutal attack, so should that option even be available?
discuss