You made a statement that emphasized a point you made. Essentially you said the government would be wrong to murder a murderer: why sink to the level of the murderer?
Jimmy countered suggesting that in that vein you introduced, the same could be said for imprisoning a kidnapper: why sink to the level of the kidnapper?
They are not disjointed and they are more similar in train of thought than you are caring to admit or failing to see.
it's a clever comparison, but in the end, one that doesn't hold any water at all. We are not sinking to the level of the kidnapper; in essence, we are making sure, at the very least, that no one else gets kidnapped. That is our duty to the rest of society.
Killing someone who can do no more harm to society is not necessary.
Incarceration is all that is necessary to keep the public safe, whether it be kidnapping or murder.
In many cases, executions could have prevented more harm to society so... to argue that it isn't 'necessary' isn't exactly true. Prison and time spent after a sentence or on parole offers murderers more chances to commit the acts we have supposedly safeguarded against.
So, as much as one could argue that the death penalty acts as a deterrent before a murder is committed... one could certainly state that it acts as a deterrent by permanently removing the homicidal maniac from future opportunity.
Sounds cold, but nobody places a gun to some guy's head and demands that they commit a murder. Don't wish to get executed? Then don't go and kill people. And if you simply cannot resist your homicidal urges... then you must be prepared to accept your fate. One shouldn't plead for mercy when they couldn't tender any themselves as they preyed on an innocent.
Anyone who would be on death row would be in max security American prisons. They wouldn't have an opportunity to do that. I don't know if citing a Canadian case where there is no death penalty and no kind of max security prison like they have in the US is a fair example, especially given Canada's current issues with that kind of thing. This could never have happened in the US I bet, which is what we're discussing here.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In many cases, executions could have prevented more harm to society so... to argue that it isn't 'necessary' isn't exactly true. Prison and time spent after a sentence or on parole offers murderers more chances to commit the acts we have supposedly safeguarded against.
So, as much as one could argue that the death penalty acts as a deterrent before a murder is committed... one could certainly state that it acts as a deterrent by permanently removing the homicidal maniac from future opportunity.
Sounds cold, but nobody places a gun to some guy's head and demands that they commit a murder. Don't wish to get executed? Then don't go and kill people. And if you simply cannot resist your homicidal urges... then you must be prepared to accept your fate. One shouldn't plead for mercy when they couldn't tender any themselves as they preyed on an innocent.
not one murder went uncommitted due to the death penalty. impossible to prove, but I think it just stands to reason. I can't possibly imagine someone WHO WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY COMMITTED THE CRIME to change their mind due to the severity of the possible consequence. It just doesn't happen. It is a proven non-deterrent.
I don't believe a murderer should EVER get out of prison. Life is life. Life is not 25 years. I'm 39, and I ain't even half done, so life ain't 25 fucking years. You die in prison if you are a murderer. End of story.
Two things:
The link I provided for you detailed a serial murderer that killed his cell mate in prison. His cell mate was doing the same time as the serial murderer- even though his crime was assault (hardly multiple murders). If the serial killer had been executed for his first wave of murders, there would be one less victim to his list. A joke of a sentence, idiots suggesting he was on the mend and suitable for a medium security prison, and a dangerous homicidal man permitted to live led to a death. At least in this case, society was negligent to properly deal with the vile man and his obscenities
Secondly. I'm not saying that the death penalty is a prominent deterrent. You are correct when you suggest that is is unlikely to stop someone hell bent on murdering someone. But it would be completely unreasonable to suggest that the death penalty would not prevent even one murder because someone thought better given they would die as a result. It is completely within the spectrum of possibilities and if it was possible to know that it was your daughter that was saved, Hugh... you would be grateful for the death penalty. Impossible to tell who may have been spared or were spared as a result of the impending death sentence attached to a potential crime, we'll just have to feel good for whoever it may have served or would serve.
In many cases, executions could have prevented more harm to society so... to argue that it isn't 'necessary' isn't exactly true. Prison and time spent after a sentence or on parole offers murderers more chances to commit the acts we have supposedly safeguarded against.
So, as much as one could argue that the death penalty acts as a deterrent before a murder is committed... one could certainly state that it acts as a deterrent by permanently removing the homicidal maniac from future opportunity.
Sounds cold, but nobody places a gun to some guy's head and demands that they commit a murder. Don't wish to get executed? Then don't go and kill people. And if you simply cannot resist your homicidal urges... then you must be prepared to accept your fate. One shouldn't plead for mercy when they couldn't tender any themselves as they preyed on an innocent.
Anyone who would be on death row would be in max security American prisons. They wouldn't have an opportunity to do that. I don't know if citing a Canadian case where there is no death penalty and no kind of max security prison like they have in the US is a fair example, especially given Canada's current issues with that kind of thing. This could never have happened in the US I bet, which is what we're discussing here.
If you look back at the cases I have cited, I have spoken mostly about Canadian cases.
But you are correct, the death penalty would have prevented this tragedy from happening. No death penalty in this case amounted to a sicko killing his cell mate. Had he been on death row or even executed... no additional death.
In many cases, executions could have prevented more harm to society so... to argue that it isn't 'necessary' isn't exactly true. Prison and time spent after a sentence or on parole offers murderers more chances to commit the acts we have supposedly safeguarded against.
So, as much as one could argue that the death penalty acts as a deterrent before a murder is committed... one could certainly state that it acts as a deterrent by permanently removing the homicidal maniac from future opportunity.
Sounds cold, but nobody places a gun to some guy's head and demands that they commit a murder. Don't wish to get executed? Then don't go and kill people. And if you simply cannot resist your homicidal urges... then you must be prepared to accept your fate. One shouldn't plead for mercy when they couldn't tender any themselves as they preyed on an innocent.
Anyone who would be on death row would be in max security American prisons. They wouldn't have an opportunity to do that. I don't know if citing a Canadian case where there is no death penalty and no kind of max security prison like they have in the US is a fair example, especially given Canada's current issues with that kind of thing. This could never have happened in the US I bet, which is what we're discussing here.
If you look back at the cases I have cited, I have spoken mostly about Canadian cases.
But you are correct, the death penalty would have prevented this tragedy from happening. No death penalty in this case amounted to a sicko killing his cell mate. Had he been on death row or even executed... no additional death.
That is not what I said at all. I said that maximum security (i.e. super max) prevents that kind of thing from happening. Not that death row would prevent it from happening.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The link I provided for you detailed a serial murderer that killed his cell mate in prison. His cell mate was doing the same time as the serial murderer- even though his crime was assault (hardly multiple murders). If the serial killer had been executed for his first wave of murders, there would be one less victim to his list. A joke of a sentence, idiots suggesting he was on the mend and suitable for a medium security prison, and a dangerous homicidal man permitted to live led to a death. At least in this case, society was negligent to properly deal with the vile man and his obscenities
Secondly. I'm not saying that the death penalty is a prominent deterrent. You are correct when you suggest that is is unlikely to stop someone hell bent on murdering someone. But it would be completely unreasonable to suggest that the death penalty would not prevent even one murder because someone thought better given they would die as a result. It is completely within the spectrum of possibilities and if it was possible to know that it was your daughter that was saved, Hugh... you would be grateful for the death penalty. Impossible to tell who may have been spared or were spared as a result of the impending death sentence attached to a potential crime, we'll just have to feel good for whoever it may have served or would serve.
I will admit that portions of my argument have its flaws in that it requires some of the current judicial policies to change, but have yet to, and may never:
-I don't believe a serial murderer should be put in a cell with ANYONE, much less someone else of much lesser "crime stature", if you will. Solitary confinement? No. But a cellmate? Also no.
-I don't believe anyone who commits a premeditated murder deserves freedom. EVER. I don't give a flying fuck if they've reformed or found Jesus, Waldo, or pray to Gumby. You're DONE.
Look, I can't morally back the death penalty. But I can't say I wouldn't watch a real live version of The Running Man if it were to ever be developed by Fox. And it better have Richard Dawson as the host.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
If you look back at the cases I have cited, I have spoken mostly about Canadian cases.
But you are correct, the death penalty would have prevented this tragedy from happening. No death penalty in this case amounted to a sicko killing his cell mate. Had he been on death row or even executed... no additional death.
That is not what I said at all. I said that maximum security (i.e. super max) prevents that kind of thing from happening. Not that death row would prevent it from happening.
I realize it's not what you said. I said it. My point remains: in this particular case... the death penalty would have served society and one more victim very well.
And, for the record, maximum security isn't flawless.
The link I provided for you detailed a serial murderer that killed his cell mate in prison. His cell mate was doing the same time as the serial murderer- even though his crime was assault (hardly multiple murders). If the serial killer had been executed for his first wave of murders, there would be one less victim to his list. A joke of a sentence, idiots suggesting he was on the mend and suitable for a medium security prison, and a dangerous homicidal man permitted to live led to a death. At least in this case, society was negligent to properly deal with the vile man and his obscenities
Secondly. I'm not saying that the death penalty is a prominent deterrent. You are correct when you suggest that is is unlikely to stop someone hell bent on murdering someone. But it would be completely unreasonable to suggest that the death penalty would not prevent even one murder because someone thought better given they would die as a result. It is completely within the spectrum of possibilities and if it was possible to know that it was your daughter that was saved, Hugh... you would be grateful for the death penalty. Impossible to tell who may have been spared or were spared as a result of the impending death sentence attached to a potential crime, we'll just have to feel good for whoever it may have served or would serve.
I will admit that portions of my argument have its flaws in that it requires some of the current judicial policies to change, but have yet to, and may never:
-I don't believe a serial murderer should be put in a cell with ANYONE, much less someone else of much lesser "crime stature", if you will. Solitary confinement? No. But a cellmate? Also no.
-I don't believe anyone who commits a premeditated murder deserves freedom. EVER. I don't give a flying fuck if they've reformed or found Jesus, Waldo, or pray to Gumby. You're DONE.
Look, I can't morally back the death penalty. But I can't say I wouldn't watch a real live version of The Running Man if it were to ever be developed by Fox. And it better have Richard Dawson as the host.
I'd be okay with those conditions- they are a hell of a lot better than what he currently have in place- but the main reason I advocate for the death penalty, once again, is to offer the victims and their survivors a level of justice that meets the crime.
My buddy and I have had this go around several times. He is opposed to the death penalty. His suggestion is to drop murderers off on an island like the Ray Liotta movie, No Escape. I'd be okay with this suggestion as well. Let the murderers sort it out amongst themselves.
I'd be okay with those conditions- they are a hell of a lot better than what he currently have in place- but the main reason I advocate for the death penalty, once again, is to offer the victims and their survivors a level of justice that meets the crime.
My buddy and I have had this go around several times. He is opposed to the death penalty. His suggestion is to drop murderers off on an island like the Ray Liotta movie, No Escape. I'd be okay with this suggestion as well. Let the murderers sort it out amongst themselves.
How ironic. I was just thinking the same thing. Although, the British used to do that....and now we have Australia.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'd be okay with those conditions- they are a hell of a lot better than what he currently have in place- but the main reason I advocate for the death penalty, once again, is to offer the victims and their survivors a level of justice that meets the crime.
My buddy and I have had this go around several times. He is opposed to the death penalty. His suggestion is to drop murderers off on an island like the Ray Liotta movie, No Escape. I'd be okay with this suggestion as well. Let the murderers sort it out amongst themselves.
How ironic. I was just thinking the same thing. Although, the British used to do that....and now we have Australia.
in this particular case... the death penalty would have served society and one more victim very well.
No it wouldn't. The death penalty only serves to degrade society and teach people that murder is a solution. What would have served society in this particular case is better supervision and prison management.
Considering this discussion, it really also just seems a lot easier to not have the death penalty. Cheaper too, unless they get rid of the appeals process....
Stop the death penalty because it is totally wrong.
The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons. Build skyscrapers in the desert for our murderers and rapists and let them live out their lives in solitude.
If they are innocent we can let them go when we figure that out.
Death penalty is revenge conducted by the government.
'Executions desensitize the public to the immorality of killing, increasing the probability that some people will be motivated to kill;
The state legitimizes the notion that vengeance for past misdeeds is acceptable;
Executions also have an "imitation effect" in which people follow the state's example. If people feel the government can kill its enemies, they believe they can too- Bowers and Pierce, 1980; King, 1978, Forst. 1983.'
The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons.
Or alternatively...
"...practically every time a prosecutor seeks the death penalty, they pull hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our local criminal justice system, dollars that therefore cannot be spent, say, on the homicide unit and getting uncaught killers off the street. And given that we have counties in this country where 50 percent of the killings can go unsolved each year, we are much better off spending our dollars on catching uncaught killers than killing the killers we’ve already caught and put in cages."- Benjamin Jealous (NAACP President)
Stop the death penalty because it is totally wrong.
The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons. Build skyscrapers in the desert for our murderers and rapists and let them live out their lives in solitude.
If they are innocent we can let them go when we figure that out.
Death penalty is revenge conducted by the government.
skyscapers in the desert?
again, many of us have stated, "if caught red handed in a vile monsterous act" with no time wasted those despicable freaks should be offed vs' wasting time & money on trials
like the bastards who destroyed dr. petit's family & his life. those two assholes deserve death as soon as possible
if someone is willing to play evil by torturing innocence they deserve to be punished by lethal means as soon as possible. it is simple, it is just & it only makes sence to stop & remove evil from goodness
y'all put to much into this stuff. caught red handed fuckers do not deserve lengthy bullshit trials. swiftly they should stop breathing all over good people. this is done inexpensively
i am one of the most peaceful around. it is an eye for an eye & ridding our lives of monsters so innocence may sleep better at night
you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
'Executions desensitize the public to the immorality of killing, increasing the probability that some people will be motivated to kill;
The state legitimizes the notion that vengeance for past misdeeds is acceptable;
Executions also have an "imitation effect" in which people follow the state's example. If people feel the government can kill its enemies, they believe they can too- Bowers and Pierce, 1980; King, 1978, Forst. 1983.'
Fluff.
Here's some more fluff:
When society responds with a punishment befitting of the crime... only then does society understand the level of intolerance we have towards obscene and vile behaviour such as the murder of a child. 30 Bills, 2013
30 years of 3 square meals, internet privileges, sex dolls, magazines, books, physical activity, outstanding health care, fan mail, and someone doing your laundry for you somehow doesn't seem like justice for the rape, murder, and mutilation of an 8 year old girl. 30 Bills, 2013
you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.
Moving up the ladder of inference.
I have repeatedly said I am 100% not good with the execution of an innocent man. Go back and look.
I have said I am in favour of executing those where guilt is as plain as the nose on your face.
The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons.
Or alternatively...
"...practically every time a prosecutor seeks the death penalty, they pull hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our local criminal justice system, dollars that therefore cannot be spent, say, on the homicide unit and getting uncaught killers off the street. And given that we have counties in this country where 50 percent of the killings can go unsolved each year, we are much better off spending our dollars on catching uncaught killers than killing the killers we’ve already caught and put in cages."- Benjamin Jealous (NAACP President)
The process is such only because we make it such. We really go out of our way to ensure child murderers have plenty of opportunity to show that somehow... they are not responsible for their atrocities.
if someone is willing to play evil by torturing innocence they deserve to be punished by lethal means as soon as possible. it is simple, it is just & it only makes sence to stop & remove evil from goodness
y'all put to much into this stuff. caught red handed fuckers do not deserve lengthy bullshit trials. swiftly they should stop breathing all over good people. this is done inexpensively
i am one of the most peaceful around. it is an eye for an eye & ridding our lives of monsters so innocence may sleep better at night
truth.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons.
Or alternatively...
"...practically every time a prosecutor seeks the death penalty, they pull hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our local criminal justice system, dollars that therefore cannot be spent, say, on the homicide unit and getting uncaught killers off the street. And given that we have counties in this country where 50 percent of the killings can go unsolved each year, we are much better off spending our dollars on catching uncaught killers than killing the killers we’ve already caught and put in cages."- Benjamin Jealous (NAACP President)
The process is such only because we make it such. We really go out of our way to ensure child murderers have plenty of opportunity to show that somehow... they are not responsible for their atrocities.
It could be much quicker and much more efficient.
genius
i am even in favor of sword use
interesting fact some of you may enjoy: back in the norse/viking days, viking barbarians, would, after killing their rivals in battles, collect their swords, heat them up to glowing red/orange at the forging blacksmith sights & bend them around forming a course circular blade/sword.
this allows the vikings to halt the spirits of the men they killed in battle from coming forward & haunting them.
every single day, often throughout the day during these death penalty debates i am taken back & grow yet again extremely sad for mr. petit who lost his wife & two girls all because of one simple recipe... evil
i wish i could meet dr. petit & just hug him. that horrific event makes my soul ache every single time i think of it. william petit has incredible strength & has suffered unspeakable anguish. he is a pillar of everything humanity
you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.
Moving up the ladder of inference.
I have repeatedly said I am 100% not good with the execution of an innocent man. Go back and look.
I have said I am in favour of executing those where guilt is as plain as the nose on your face.
What needs to be said here, and what I will acknowledge, is that one is not even supposed to be in jail if there is a shadow of doubt towards their guilt. So, I recognize that one murderer should not be 'more guilty' than another.
I can live, in Canada, without the DP. I have been doing it for most of my life. I contend though, that our justice system and penal system is bankrupt. Byrnzie's quotes regarding the effect of the DP on society might be true, but the contrary might be true as well: I look at the overwhelming lack of accountability in our society and the mechanisms that support such attitudes and I get frustrated. Parents making excuses for their children. Parents making excuses for themselves. Companies justifying unethical behaviours. Employees cheating their companies. And the list goes on...
I think an argument could easily be made that this attitude starts at the top. When we are saturated with brutal stories such as many of the ones throughout this thread... and we witness the feeble defences put forth by lawyers and defendants... and we consistently are shocked at insufficient sentences... and we are consistently irritated by obscene behaviour from those already behind bars... is it any wonder some are calling for higher levels of discipline?
every single day, often throughout the day during these death penalty debates i am taken back & grow yet again extremely sad for mr. petit who lost his wife & two girls all because of one simple recipe... evil
i wish i could meet dr. petit & just hug him. that horrific event makes my soul ache every single time i think of it. william petit has incredible strength & has suffered unspeakable anguish. he is a pillar of everything humanity
I cannot believe what they were subjected to as well, Chadwick. As much as it is agonizing to us- think of Petit's days. He has remarried and hopefully he does experience moments of joy... but it is very likely he was, in effect, murdered that day too. An egg shell of the person he once was.
It might be just you and I... but I cannot believe the outpouring of support for the two shitbaggers that committed that crime. We humans like to think of ourselves as some awesome types of beings, but we are animals and always will be. On its most basic level... death is certainly warranted as a response and justice. Not to sound condescending... but how does one think ping pong and a nice warm jail cell makes us better? It's beyond me to comprehend such a train of thought.
I must be an ogre. Anyways... off to the Gorge for DMB shows. Enough of this topic for me... for now.
That is unless Byrnzie really irritates me somehow
you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.
Moving up the ladder of inference.
I have repeatedly said I am 100% not good with the execution of an innocent man. Go back and look.
I have said I am in favour of executing those where guilt is as plain as the nose on your face.
what's good for the goose......you are repeatedly accusing those against the death penalty of putting criminals above innocent civilians.
I hope the point was made.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
Two things:
The link I provided for you detailed a serial murderer that killed his cell mate in prison. His cell mate was doing the same time as the serial murderer- even though his crime was assault (hardly multiple murders). If the serial killer had been executed for his first wave of murders, there would be one less victim to his list. A joke of a sentence, idiots suggesting he was on the mend and suitable for a medium security prison, and a dangerous homicidal man permitted to live led to a death. At least in this case, society was negligent to properly deal with the vile man and his obscenities
Secondly. I'm not saying that the death penalty is a prominent deterrent. You are correct when you suggest that is is unlikely to stop someone hell bent on murdering someone. But it would be completely unreasonable to suggest that the death penalty would not prevent even one murder because someone thought better given they would die as a result. It is completely within the spectrum of possibilities and if it was possible to know that it was your daughter that was saved, Hugh... you would be grateful for the death penalty. Impossible to tell who may have been spared or were spared as a result of the impending death sentence attached to a potential crime, we'll just have to feel good for whoever it may have served or would serve.
If you look back at the cases I have cited, I have spoken mostly about Canadian cases.
But you are correct, the death penalty would have prevented this tragedy from happening. No death penalty in this case amounted to a sicko killing his cell mate. Had he been on death row or even executed... no additional death.
I will admit that portions of my argument have its flaws in that it requires some of the current judicial policies to change, but have yet to, and may never:
-I don't believe a serial murderer should be put in a cell with ANYONE, much less someone else of much lesser "crime stature", if you will. Solitary confinement? No. But a cellmate? Also no.
-I don't believe anyone who commits a premeditated murder deserves freedom. EVER. I don't give a flying fuck if they've reformed or found Jesus, Waldo, or pray to Gumby. You're DONE.
Look, I can't morally back the death penalty. But I can't say I wouldn't watch a real live version of The Running Man if it were to ever be developed by Fox. And it better have Richard Dawson as the host.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I realize it's not what you said. I said it. My point remains: in this particular case... the death penalty would have served society and one more victim very well.
And, for the record, maximum security isn't flawless.
I'd be okay with those conditions- they are a hell of a lot better than what he currently have in place- but the main reason I advocate for the death penalty, once again, is to offer the victims and their survivors a level of justice that meets the crime.
My buddy and I have had this go around several times. He is opposed to the death penalty. His suggestion is to drop murderers off on an island like the Ray Liotta movie, No Escape. I'd be okay with this suggestion as well. Let the murderers sort it out amongst themselves.
How ironic. I was just thinking the same thing. Although, the British used to do that....and now we have Australia.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No it wouldn't. The death penalty only serves to degrade society and teach people that murder is a solution. What would have served society in this particular case is better supervision and prison management.
Neither is the death penalty, as many innocent people have been killed.
http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42
A study done by the Sacramento Bee (March 28, 1988) suggests that California would save $90 million per year if it were to abolish the death penalty.
$78 million of these expenses are occurred at the trial level and would not be reduced by shortening appeals.
unfortunately, TBU has already stated he prefers an innocent person be put to death rather than an innocent person be killed in society.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not exactly, Hugh. Come on, man.
Show me where I said this.
The exorbitant amount of money spent on capital cases should be spent on building super max prisons. Build skyscrapers in the desert for our murderers and rapists and let them live out their lives in solitude.
If they are innocent we can let them go when we figure that out.
Death penalty is revenge conducted by the government.
The state legitimizes the notion that vengeance for past misdeeds is acceptable;
Executions also have an "imitation effect" in which people follow the state's example. If people feel the government can kill its enemies, they believe they can too - Bowers and Pierce, 1980; King, 1978, Forst. 1983.'
Or alternatively...
"...practically every time a prosecutor seeks the death penalty, they pull hundreds of thousands of dollars out of our local criminal justice system, dollars that therefore cannot be spent, say, on the homicide unit and getting uncaught killers off the street. And given that we have counties in this country where 50 percent of the killings can go unsolved each year, we are much better off spending our dollars on catching uncaught killers than killing the killers we’ve already caught and put in cages." - Benjamin Jealous (NAACP President)
again, many of us have stated, "if caught red handed in a vile monsterous act" with no time wasted those despicable freaks should be offed vs' wasting time & money on trials
like the bastards who destroyed dr. petit's family & his life. those two assholes deserve death as soon as possible
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
y'all put to much into this stuff. caught red handed fuckers do not deserve lengthy bullshit trials. swiftly they should stop breathing all over good people. this is done inexpensively
i am one of the most peaceful around. it is an eye for an eye & ridding our lives of monsters so innocence may sleep better at night
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
you have repeatedly in the last few pages used as part of your argument that if the death penalty stops one killing then it's worth it. from that point of view, it can be surmised that it is more important to you to kill criminals (with the remote possibility that it saved one life) than it is to stop innocent people from being executed.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fluff.
Here's some more fluff:
When society responds with a punishment befitting of the crime... only then does society understand the level of intolerance we have towards obscene and vile behaviour such as the murder of a child. 30 Bills, 2013
30 years of 3 square meals, internet privileges, sex dolls, magazines, books, physical activity, outstanding health care, fan mail, and someone doing your laundry for you somehow doesn't seem like justice for the rape, murder, and mutilation of an 8 year old girl. 30 Bills, 2013
Moving up the ladder of inference.
I have repeatedly said I am 100% not good with the execution of an innocent man. Go back and look.
I have said I am in favour of executing those where guilt is as plain as the nose on your face.
The process is such only because we make it such. We really go out of our way to ensure child murderers have plenty of opportunity to show that somehow... they are not responsible for their atrocities.
It could be much quicker and much more efficient.
truth.
genius
i am even in favor of sword use
interesting fact some of you may enjoy: back in the norse/viking days, viking barbarians, would, after killing their rivals in battles, collect their swords, heat them up to glowing red/orange at the forging blacksmith sights & bend them around forming a course circular blade/sword.
this allows the vikings to halt the spirits of the men they killed in battle from coming forward & haunting them.
carry on...
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
i wish i could meet dr. petit & just hug him. that horrific event makes my soul ache every single time i think of it. william petit has incredible strength & has suffered unspeakable anguish. he is a pillar of everything humanity
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
What needs to be said here, and what I will acknowledge, is that one is not even supposed to be in jail if there is a shadow of doubt towards their guilt. So, I recognize that one murderer should not be 'more guilty' than another.
I can live, in Canada, without the DP. I have been doing it for most of my life. I contend though, that our justice system and penal system is bankrupt. Byrnzie's quotes regarding the effect of the DP on society might be true, but the contrary might be true as well: I look at the overwhelming lack of accountability in our society and the mechanisms that support such attitudes and I get frustrated. Parents making excuses for their children. Parents making excuses for themselves. Companies justifying unethical behaviours. Employees cheating their companies. And the list goes on...
I think an argument could easily be made that this attitude starts at the top. When we are saturated with brutal stories such as many of the ones throughout this thread... and we witness the feeble defences put forth by lawyers and defendants... and we consistently are shocked at insufficient sentences... and we are consistently irritated by obscene behaviour from those already behind bars... is it any wonder some are calling for higher levels of discipline?
I cannot believe what they were subjected to as well, Chadwick. As much as it is agonizing to us- think of Petit's days. He has remarried and hopefully he does experience moments of joy... but it is very likely he was, in effect, murdered that day too. An egg shell of the person he once was.
It might be just you and I... but I cannot believe the outpouring of support for the two shitbaggers that committed that crime. We humans like to think of ourselves as some awesome types of beings, but we are animals and always will be. On its most basic level... death is certainly warranted as a response and justice. Not to sound condescending... but how does one think ping pong and a nice warm jail cell makes us better? It's beyond me to comprehend such a train of thought.
I must be an ogre. Anyways... off to the Gorge for DMB shows. Enough of this topic for me... for now.
That is unless Byrnzie really irritates me somehow
sounds fun & fucking hot as shit, yes?
william petit... yes he died that day
who wouldn't?
i often wish he & i were friends somehow. i'd just like to help him so his life would be smoother somehow :(
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
what's good for the goose......you are repeatedly accusing those against the death penalty of putting criminals above innocent civilians.
I hope the point was made.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
after all this time you just haven't gotten it. support for life is not equal to support for criminals.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014