The Death Penalty

pdalowsky

whats being referred to?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

This case doesn't strike me as being of the 'extreme' nature (as violent as it might have been). If I have my facts straight: it was not a random act, it wasn't in serial or mass fashion, the victim was not a child, and despite a near decapitation... there was no macabre element to it. It's not a qualifier for the death penalty in my books.

With that said... if she wants it then let her have it.

I'm not sure why people can't get their heads around the simple concept of consequences? If I make the choice to sleep in every day and miss work: I get fired. If I make the choice to eat McDonald's every day and never exercise: I get fat. If I make the choice to go out in the sun every day without sunscreen: I run the risk of getting skin cancer. If I make a choice to rape and murder a child: I get sentenced to death.

People arguing about the morality of executing a person who has committed an extreme and heinous offence lose sight of the fact that nobody wishes for state executions: they wish for our children to walk home from school safely and our daughters to sleep in their beds without risk. When someone makes the choice to exercise their morbid fantasies... they face consequences. The more severe the act... the more severe the consequence.

This isn't about deterrent as much as it is about obvious and corresponding response from a society. Some who argue against the death penalty suggest it is cruel. Then they argue that a life in solitary confinement is worse. So, the natural question here is what is it exactly you want? I figure it cannot be a mulligan or a comprehensive rehabilitation program complete with an intramural component... so what exactly does justice look like for Tori Stafford and her surviving family?

after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

Jodi Arias, more manipulation? She chooses death. Heaven forbid she should choose
to be something good for someone. To feel guilt, to live sorrow like the loved ones
of her victim. Is this was one mentally ill too?

I have not followed, only heard this on the radio news ... she chooses death
cause a lifetime in one place is too long. :? Clearly doesn't appreciate life at all.
or...
figures if she asks for a death sentence it will not be granted.

disagree. I'd choose death over a life in prison as well. if you think someone who would prefer death over life in prison doesn't appreciate life then you don't know a thing about life in prison.

you don't have much faith in a justice system if all it takes is for one poor sap to use reverse psychology on the jury, prosecution and judge to get what they want.

Bronx Bombers

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.

The Boston bomber is only 19, surely he can be rehabilitated over time so if prison is not for punishment would you be in favor of releasing him back into society if he's deemed rehabilitated in say 10 years?

hedonist

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.

But what if someone goes mad simply by being imprisoned with just the necessities?

(and I think more than "just" is often provided)

I do, at times, want vengeance, and punishment. I want people like Castro to suffer. Not sure I'm willing or even able to justify this as it comes from a visceral place that's pretty difficult to articulate.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Bronx Bombers wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.

The Boston bomber is only 19, surely he can be rehabilitated over time so if prison is not for punishment would you be in favor of releasing him back into society if he's deemed rehabilitated in say 10 years?

no, it's not just about rehabilitation. it's also, as I said, about making sure the public is safe. I don't know if you can ever rehabilitate an extremist.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

hedonist wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.

But what if someone goes mad simply by being imprisoned with just the necessities?

(and I think more than "just" is often provided)

I do, at times, want vengeance, and punishment. I want people like Castro to suffer. Not sure I'm willing or even able to justify this as it comes from a visceral place that's pretty difficult to articulate.

sure some would go mad with just the necessities. I'm sure I'd go nuts just being in general population. But that's the least of what is required to keep society safe. solitary, in my eyes, isn't needed unless the general population or the inmate themselves are in danger from either the prisoner or the other inmates, respectively.

Jason P

Turns out that Jodi Arias decided that reading books for the next 60 years may not be such a bad plan.

mickeyrat

chadwick wrote:

ohio get ready to fire up your lethal injections & your hot seat. it's fricking on

one needle, one drug. effective. Thanks Wilfred Barry for becomeing "the volunteer" He was the first to be executed in Ohio since SCOTUS lifted the ban.

hedonist

Jason P wrote:

Turns out that Jodi Arias decided that reading books for the next 60 years may not be such a bad plan.

No do-overs!

JimmyV

Because there is no death penalty in my state this psychotic piece of shit will be fed, clothed and housed all on the tax payers' dime for the rest of his life. The death penalty is used too often. It is used in cases where it should not apply, where there is a conceivable doubt. This is not one of those cases. This guy should go.

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/05 ... story.html

BROCKTON — After his arrest for a murderous rampage, alleged killer Keith Luke described to police a plot to invade the homes of non-whites, kill them, and drive to a temple hosting bingo night, where he had intended to have a “happy ending” by committing suicide.

“I decided I was going to kill as many non-whites as possible, and then kill myself,’’ Luke told police, his defense attorney said today in court.

As the disturbing and gruesome confession was recounted in Brockton Superior Court, Luke, on trial for attacking three Cape Verdean nationals, killing two of them, smirked, then stared ahead blankly.

Since the trial began Thursday, prosecutors have sought to portray Luke, a self-described neo-Nazi skinhead, as a cold-hearted killer who amassed a trove of hammers, crowbars, and medical devices to carry out his war against anyone who was not white.

In court today, Luke’s defense attorney Joseph F. Krowski Jr. used his client’s own words to police to paint a picture of a disturbed young man who had languished in psychiatric hospitals and then in isolation before he carried out his deadly acts.

Questioning the chief investigator in the case, Krowski pointed out that Luke had described a growing disgust over what he saw as whites being degraded and felt that “the Zionist government” was doing nothing about it. Luke also said Congress was going to pass a “thought crime law” and that authorities were building “FEMA camps” for whites like him, Krowski said.

“You didn’t go out and investigate whether there was a Zionist occupation for the case, did you?’’ Krowski asked the investigator, Trooper Elvin Morales.

“No,’’ Morales replied.

“Because you know that is gibberish, right?’’ Krowski said.

“Yes,” Morales responded.

Luke, a Brockton resident, is facing life in prison in the Jan. 21, 2009, fatal shootings of 20-year-old Selma Goncalves and 72-year-old Arlindo DePina Goncalves, who is not related to Selma.

He is also accused of raping and shooting Selma’s 22-year-old sister. The Globe is not identifying her because of the allegation that she is a rape victim.

Luke confessed to the crimes, but gave a series of bizarre explanations for his actions, saying, among other things, that he was angry over black men dating white women. He also said he had no friends or family and that he had never had sex and intended to have intercourse with a girl before he died.

“I have to sacrifice my life for something,’’ he said, according to testimony.

Morales testified that Luke made the statements while they were filling out paperwork at booking and then in a separate interview later. He had asked Luke a series of questions, including whether he was married or single. Luke responded in a chilling monotone.

“I am fighting for the dying race,’’ he told the trooper. “I am speaking the truth. I’m banned from a list that has blackballed me from everything.”

Luke, in white T-shirt and prison-issued green pants, sat quietly with one arm folded over the other during the trial. At one point, he wrote something on a yellow legal pad, and he smirked while his lawyer recounted his words for jurors.

His defense attorney said Luke had been in a psychiatric hospital for three years prior to 2009 and that prior to the killings, he had spent a majority of the time isolated from everyone else. He had only held a job for one day in his entire life.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JimmyV wrote:

Because there is no death penalty in my state this psychotic piece of shit will be fed, clothed and housed all on the tax payers' dime for the rest of his life. The death penalty is used too often. It is used in cases where it should not apply, where there is a conceivable doubt. This is not one of those cases. This guy should go.

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/05 ... story.html

BROCKTON — After his arrest for a murderous rampage, alleged killer Keith Luke described to police a plot to invade the homes of non-whites, kill them, and drive to a temple hosting bingo night, where he had intended to have a “happy ending” by committing suicide.

“I decided I was going to kill as many non-whites as possible, and then kill myself,’’ Luke told police, his defense attorney said today in court.

As the disturbing and gruesome confession was recounted in Brockton Superior Court, Luke, on trial for attacking three Cape Verdean nationals, killing two of them, smirked, then stared ahead blankly.

Since the trial began Thursday, prosecutors have sought to portray Luke, a self-described neo-Nazi skinhead, as a cold-hearted killer who amassed a trove of hammers, crowbars, and medical devices to carry out his war against anyone who was not white.

In court today, Luke’s defense attorney Joseph F. Krowski Jr. used his client’s own words to police to paint a picture of a disturbed young man who had languished in psychiatric hospitals and then in isolation before he carried out his deadly acts.

Questioning the chief investigator in the case, Krowski pointed out that Luke had described a growing disgust over what he saw as whites being degraded and felt that “the Zionist government” was doing nothing about it. Luke also said Congress was going to pass a “thought crime law” and that authorities were building “FEMA camps” for whites like him, Krowski said.

“You didn’t go out and investigate whether there was a Zionist occupation for the case, did you?’’ Krowski asked the investigator, Trooper Elvin Morales.

“No,’’ Morales replied.

“Because you know that is gibberish, right?’’ Krowski said.

“Yes,” Morales responded.

Luke, a Brockton resident, is facing life in prison in the Jan. 21, 2009, fatal shootings of 20-year-old Selma Goncalves and 72-year-old Arlindo DePina Goncalves, who is not related to Selma.

He is also accused of raping and shooting Selma’s 22-year-old sister. The Globe is not identifying her because of the allegation that she is a rape victim.

Luke confessed to the crimes, but gave a series of bizarre explanations for his actions, saying, among other things, that he was angry over black men dating white women. He also said he had no friends or family and that he had never had sex and intended to have intercourse with a girl before he died.

“I have to sacrifice my life for something,’’ he said, according to testimony.

Morales testified that Luke made the statements while they were filling out paperwork at booking and then in a separate interview later. He had asked Luke a series of questions, including whether he was married or single. Luke responded in a chilling monotone.

“I am fighting for the dying race,’’ he told the trooper. “I am speaking the truth. I’m banned from a list that has blackballed me from everything.”

Luke, in white T-shirt and prison-issued green pants, sat quietly with one arm folded over the other during the trial. At one point, he wrote something on a yellow legal pad, and he smirked while his lawyer recounted his words for jurors.

His defense attorney said Luke had been in a psychiatric hospital for three years prior to 2009 and that prior to the killings, he had spent a majority of the time isolated from everyone else. He had only held a job for one day in his entire life.

Mentally ill.

JimmyV

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Because there is no death penalty in my state this psychotic piece of shit will be fed, clothed and housed all on the tax payers' dime for the rest of his life. The death penalty is used too often. It is used in cases where it should not apply, where there is a conceivable doubt. This is not one of those cases. This guy should go.

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/05 ... story.html

BROCKTON — After his arrest for a murderous rampage, alleged killer Keith Luke described to police a plot to invade the homes of non-whites, kill them, and drive to a temple hosting bingo night, where he had intended to have a “happy ending” by committing suicide.

“I decided I was going to kill as many non-whites as possible, and then kill myself,’’ Luke told police, his defense attorney said today in court.

As the disturbing and gruesome confession was recounted in Brockton Superior Court, Luke, on trial for attacking three Cape Verdean nationals, killing two of them, smirked, then stared ahead blankly.

Since the trial began Thursday, prosecutors have sought to portray Luke, a self-described neo-Nazi skinhead, as a cold-hearted killer who amassed a trove of hammers, crowbars, and medical devices to carry out his war against anyone who was not white.

In court today, Luke’s defense attorney Joseph F. Krowski Jr. used his client’s own words to police to paint a picture of a disturbed young man who had languished in psychiatric hospitals and then in isolation before he carried out his deadly acts.

Questioning the chief investigator in the case, Krowski pointed out that Luke had described a growing disgust over what he saw as whites being degraded and felt that “the Zionist government” was doing nothing about it. Luke also said Congress was going to pass a “thought crime law” and that authorities were building “FEMA camps” for whites like him, Krowski said.

“You didn’t go out and investigate whether there was a Zionist occupation for the case, did you?’’ Krowski asked the investigator, Trooper Elvin Morales.

“No,’’ Morales replied.

“Because you know that is gibberish, right?’’ Krowski said.

“Yes,” Morales responded.

Luke, a Brockton resident, is facing life in prison in the Jan. 21, 2009, fatal shootings of 20-year-old Selma Goncalves and 72-year-old Arlindo DePina Goncalves, who is not related to Selma.

He is also accused of raping and shooting Selma’s 22-year-old sister. The Globe is not identifying her because of the allegation that she is a rape victim.

Luke confessed to the crimes, but gave a series of bizarre explanations for his actions, saying, among other things, that he was angry over black men dating white women. He also said he had no friends or family and that he had never had sex and intended to have intercourse with a girl before he died.

“I have to sacrifice my life for something,’’ he said, according to testimony.

Morales testified that Luke made the statements while they were filling out paperwork at booking and then in a separate interview later. He had asked Luke a series of questions, including whether he was married or single. Luke responded in a chilling monotone.

“I am fighting for the dying race,’’ he told the trooper. “I am speaking the truth. I’m banned from a list that has blackballed me from everything.”

Luke, in white T-shirt and prison-issued green pants, sat quietly with one arm folded over the other during the trial. At one point, he wrote something on a yellow legal pad, and he smirked while his lawyer recounted his words for jurors.

His defense attorney said Luke had been in a psychiatric hospital for three years prior to 2009 and that prior to the killings, he had spent a majority of the time isolated from everyone else. He had only held a job for one day in his entire life.

Mentally ill.

And he will never not be mentally ill nor be a threat to kill again if he ever manages to escape. Perhaps he is damaged but if so he is damaged beyond repair. There is no reason to keep this man alive.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

JimmyV wrote:

And he will never not be mentally ill nor be a threat to kill again if he ever manages to escape. Perhaps he is damaged but if so he is damaged beyond repair. There is no reason to keep this man alive.

millions are "damaged beyond repair". should we just kill them all too? you don't kill someone for being sick.

catefrances

all youd have to do is take away all access to books and I would go not so slowly round the bend. keep me locked up as well and the trip will be much shorter and a little more spectacular.

JimmyV

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

And he will never not be mentally ill nor be a threat to kill again if he ever manages to escape. Perhaps he is damaged but if so he is damaged beyond repair. There is no reason to keep this man alive.

millions are "damaged beyond repair". should we just kill them all too? you don't kill someone for being sick.

No, millions do not commit the vicious murders he did. He isn't being punished because he has a history of mental illness. He is being punished because he now has a history of multiple murder.

pdalowsky

Extremism is not always a sign of mental illness.....although the fact he was in that psychiatric hospital for such a long time would suggest he clearly has issues.

However did his mental deficiencies really affect his ability to know right from wrong? Killing is killing and this guy wanted to kill people based on his racial biogtry. He is scum in my mind and deserves to spend every last waking hour incarcerated.

Does he deserve the death penalty? does anyone, but even those who are pro death, would certainly need to know much more than is in that article to make any sort of educated decision on that

oceaninmyeyes

Hickenlooper can't do it. Can't blame him; I couldn't do it either.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/05/22/g ... -execution

Thirty Bills Unpaid

oceaninmyeyes wrote:

Hickenlooper can't do it. Can't blame him; I couldn't do it either.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/05/22/g ... -execution

Not everyone is up for cooking this guy's meals or listen to him blather about how he's sorry that he killed 4 people in cold blood either, but this is a job that needs to be done. Melinda Cromar (and her father, Bob Crowell) might be up for it. Especially when you listen to their anger regarding Hickenlooper's failure to provide justice for the deceased and their survivors: "He took a coward’s way out,” said Melinda Cromar, whose 19-year-old sister Sylvia Crowell was among those killed by Dunlap. “I am just so angry.”

At least someone is happy though: “Mr. Dunlap was grateful,” his attorney Philip Cherner said after Hickenlooper’s announcement. “His expressions of remorse were genuine. He is truly sad for what happened.”

Oh shit! You're sorry? Are you sure you're sorry? Really sorry? And you're sad too? Hold up everybody, I think this guy's sorry!

Always after the fact, eh? Looking back... I really wish I had not hid in the bathroom to later come out with all my rage and execute all the restaurant workers just trying to make a living. Even the girl who plead for her life on her knees.

Hickenlooper offered this scumbag mercy after he denied it to his victims. Sorry, this just doesn't add up for me.

Ocean, you might feel differently if it was your daughter shot in the head as she pleaded for her life.

chadwick

in many cases i myself would be thrilled to put some monsters out of commission permanently, mentally ill or not, this dangerous freak deserves no oxygen in my humble opinion. colorado's governor is a softy.