The Death Penalty

peacefrompaul

cincybearcat wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

81 wrote:

25 years in solitary.....

http://solitarywatch.com/2013/03/11/voi ... han-death/

it's a good read.

yep, exactly what I've been saying for years why the death penalty isn't even needed. solitary is worse than a death sentence.

I'd be willing to bet that if the death penalty is banned, the next thing under attack will be solitary confinement as it will be seen as cruel and unusual punishment.

:fp:

Probably so

Hugh Freaking Dillon

cincybearcat wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

81 wrote:

25 years in solitary.....

http://solitarywatch.com/2013/03/11/voi ... han-death/

it's a good read.

yep, exactly what I've been saying for years why the death penalty isn't even needed. solitary is worse than a death sentence.

I'd be willing to bet that if the death penalty is banned, the next thing under attack will be solitary confinement as it will be seen as cruel and unusual punishment.

and with good reason.

STAYSEA

I just saw a very twisted movie about the death penalty.

I wanted to barf.

It's called "The Paper Boy".

Even Jon Cusak's character was creepy.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I'd be willing to bet that if the death penalty is banned, the next thing under attack will be solitary confinement as it will be seen as cruel and unusual punishment.

and with good reason.

Those who think victims like Victoria Stafford deserve a little more than 25 years of foosball and television for their murderer wouldn't agree with you, Hugh.

You see... they think that after Michael Rafferty chose to kidnap, savagely rape, and then murder 8 year old, Victoria with a hammer to her head... that he doesn't really deserve comfort.

And I'm not saying prison is a country club. For some... prison is almost unfair; but for sick, twisted murderers such as this loser... prison any way you can offer it is too good. Way too good.

lukin2006

So should they also ban solitary confinement? The article posted by 81 was a good read and I have no idea how someone could live 1 year like that...so it is not enough to just lock them up...we need solitary confinement so they go crazy...it seems to me that sentence is far worse than death itself...so where do we draw the line? If the death penalty is seen as cruel and unusual then so should solitary confinement, and if you are against torture then you should be against solitary confinement...because putting someone in solitary confinement for years may not be physical torture but surely is mental torture.

callen

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I'd be willing to bet that if the death penalty is banned, the next thing under attack will be solitary confinement as it will be seen as cruel and unusual punishment.

and with good reason.

Those who think victims like Victoria Stafford deserve a little more than 25 years of foosball and television for their murderer wouldn't agree with you, Hugh.

You see... they think that after Michael Rafferty chose to kidnap, savagely rape, and then murder 8 year old, Victoria with a hammer to her head... that he doesn't really deserve comfort.

And I'm not saying prison is a country club. For some... prison is almost unfair; but for sick, twisted murderers such as this loser... prison any way you can offer it is too good. Way too good.

But if we kill via the death penalty, are we really any better than Rafferty? Put him in a cell, study his brain to see how it works to prevent future crime and make fker work for his food, stamp license plates. Vengence is not healthy.

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

long timers become "important" in the prison world and have status amung their group, point is that while I never heard of anybody getting a blow up doll they do become comfortable in their soroundings

As opposed to giving in to the alternative; going mad, or killing yourself.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Those who think victims like Victoria Stafford deserve a little more than 25 years of foosball and television for their murderer wouldn't agree with you, Hugh.

Except prisoners don't get 25 years of football and television, so your point is moot.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen wrote:

But if we kill via the death penalty, are we really any better than Rafferty? Put him in a cell, study his brain to see how it works to prevent future crime and make fker work for his food, stamp license plates. Vengence is not healthy.

I advocate for the death penalty in extreme cases.

All sentences are vengeance. Some forms of vengeance are not as finite as others. Nobody wants to exercise any form of vengeance, but we are forced to. Given that we are forced to... how do we respond?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Those who think victims like Victoria Stafford deserve a little more than 25 years of foosball and television for their murderer wouldn't agree with you, Hugh.

Except prisoners don't get 25 years of football and television, so your point is moot.

They don't get 25 years of cabbage soup, cold showers and day old bread either. My point stands.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Those who think victims like Victoria Stafford deserve a little more than 25 years of foosball and television for their murderer wouldn't agree with you, Hugh.

Except prisoners don't get 25 years of football and television, so your point is moot.

They don't get 25 years of cabbage soup, cold showers and day old bread either. My point stands.

Being confined to a tiny concrete cell 23 hours a day, with no t.v, and no football, doesn't constitute getting 25 years of football and television.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

All sentences are vengeance.

Are they? Or does the prison system have more to do with control? Vengeance usually takes the form of an emotional reaction that involves some form of violence. Whereas it's been argued that the prison system is really an extreme extension of society as a whole - see Michel Foucault's 'Discipline And Punish'.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

All sentences are vengeance.

Are they? Or does the prison system have more to do with control? Vengeance usually takes the form of an emotional reaction that involves some form of violence. Whereas it's been argued that the prison system is really an extreme extension of society as a whole - see Michel Foucault's 'Discipline And Punish'.

Vengeance could more accurately be described as any emotional reaction to an injustice or grievance. And vengeance isn't always exacted with violence.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

All sentences are vengeance.

Are they? Or does the prison system have more to do with control? Vengeance usually takes the form of an emotional reaction that involves some form of violence. Whereas it's been argued that the prison system is really an extreme extension of society as a whole - see Michel Foucault's 'Discipline And Punish'.

Vengeance could more accurately be described as any emotional reaction to an injustice or grievance. And vengeance isn't always exacted with violence.

I wouldn't describe imprisonment as violence, but more a form of humiliation and/or degradation. Though it could be argued that humiliation and degradation is a type of violence against a mans soul.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Vengeance could more accurately be described as any emotional reaction to an injustice or grievance. And vengeance isn't always exacted with violence.

I wouldn't describe imprisonment as violence, but more a form of humiliation and/or degradation, of which there is plenty in the prison system.

Sure... but nonetheless a form of vengeance, no?

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Vengeance could more accurately be described as any emotional reaction to an injustice or grievance. And vengeance isn't always exacted with violence.

I wouldn't describe imprisonment as violence, but more a form of humiliation and/or degradation, of which there is plenty in the prison system.

Sure... but nonetheless a form of vengeance, no?

Well, I just checked the dictionary definitions of 'Vengeance' and 'Punishment', and it turns out they're pretty much the same thing, so I'll give you this one.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I feel like I just shot 72.

Byrnzie

81 wrote:

25 years in solitary.....

http://solitarywatch.com/2013/03/11/voi ... han-death/

it's a good read.

Yep, sounds like paradise.

Byrnzie

Interesting:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content ... ations.php

Facts on Post-Conviction DNA Exonerations


There have been 303 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States.

• The first DNA exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 36 states; since 2000, there have been 236 exonerations.

• 18 of the 303 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row. Another 16 were charged with capital crimes but not sentenced to death.

• The average length of time served by exonerees is 13.6 years. The total number of years served is approximately 4,041.

• The average age of exonerees at the time of their wrongful convictions was 27.

Races of the 303 exonerees:

188 African Americans
86 Caucasians
21 Latinos
2 Asian American
6 whose race is unknown

• The true suspects and/or perpetrators have been identified in 147 of the DNA exoneration cases.

• Since 1989, there have been tens of thousands of cases where prime suspects were identified and pursued—until DNA testing (prior to conviction) proved that they were wrongly accused.

• In more than 25 percent of cases in a National Institute of Justice study, suspects were excluded once DNA testing was conducted during the criminal investigation (the study, conducted in 1995, included 10,060 cases where testing was performed by FBI labs).

• 65 percent of the people exonerated through DNA testing have been financially compensated. 27 states, the federal government, and the District of Columbia have passed laws to compensate people who were wrongfully incarcerated. Awards under these statutes vary from state to state.

• An Innocence Project review of our closed cases from 2004 - 2010 revealed that 22 percent of cases were closed because of lost or destroyed evidence.

• The Innocence Project was involved in 170 of the 303 DNA exonerations. Others were helped by Innocence Network organizations, private attorneys and by pro se defendants in a few instances.

Leading Causes of Wrongful Convictions

These DNA exoneration cases have provided irrefutable proof that wrongful convictions are not isolated or rare events, but arise from systemic defects that can be precisely identified and addressed. For more than 15 years, the Innocence Project has worked to pinpoint these trends.

Eyewitness Misidentification Testimony was a factor in 72 percent percent of post-conviction DNA exoneration cases in the U.S., making it the leading cause of these wrongful convictions. At least 40 percent of these eyewitness identifications involved a cross racial identification (race data is currently only available on the victim, not for non-victim eyewitnesses). Studies have shown that people are less able to recognize faces of a different race than their own. These suggested reforms are embraced by leading criminal justice organizations and have been adopted in the states of New Jersey and North Carolina, large cities like Minneapolis and Seattle, and many smaller jurisdictions. Read more.

Unvalidated or Improper Forensic Science played a role in approximately 50 percent of wrongful convictions later overturned by DNA testing. While DNA testing was developed through extensive scientific research at top academic centers, many other forensic techniques – such as hair microscopy, bite mark comparisons, firearm tool mark analysis and shoe print comparisons – have never been subjected to rigorous scientific evaluation. Meanwhile, forensics techniques that have been properly validated – such as serology, commonly known as blood typing – are sometimes improperly conducted or inaccurately conveyed in trial testimony. In other wrongful conviction cases, forensic scientists have engaged in misconduct. Read more.

False confessions and incriminating statements lead to wrongful convictions in approximately 25 percent of cases. 28 of the DNA exonerees pled guilty to crimes they did not commit. The Innocence Project encourages police departments to electronically record all custodial interrogations in their entirety in order to prevent coercion and to provide an accurate record of the proceedings.

Informants contributed to wrongful convictions in 18 percent of cases. Whenever informant testimony is used, the Innocence Project recommends that the judge instruct the jury that most informant testimony is unreliable as it may be offered in return for deals, special treatment, or the dropping of charges. Prosecutors should also reveal any incentive the informant might receive, and all communication between prosecutors and informants should be recorded.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

Interesting:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content ... ations.php

I am very familiar with the innocence project: 100s of individuals wrongfully convicted. The points you have posted are not lost on me.

We are never going to agree on this, Byrnzie; but nonetheless... don't get me wrong- I don't think all murders qualify for the death penalty. It is my opinion that the extreme cases demand it (serial/mass types or acts against children for example).

I realize if there is a shadow of doubt, people are not supposed to be convicted. So, I cannot say that certain perameters must be met to establish 100% guilt and then bring the death penalty into play- they were already supposed to be met. I would like this to be so though.

To my way of thinking... executing an innocent man is the only reason against the death penalty that makes me pause.