How about giving us your interpretation of these facts:
--Why was there no blood at the scene of the murders??
--how do you explain the bloody guy who entered Bojangles and the evidence collected (I vaguely recall) was lost??
No blood, maybe because each kid was found in 2-1/2 ' of water? They weren't found until the next day.
Bojangles is a dead end. If you read Marty King's testimony it's obvious the guy was just some drunken bum. The blood was his own from an arm injury, and he was so out of it he crapped all over himself and couldn't even use the toilet paper. Any way you look at it, he could not have been involved.
Took this from the trial transcript:
CROSS EXAMINATION OF MARTY KING BY MR. FOGLEMAN
BY MR. FOGLEMAN: I am marking on the map, State's Ex. #2: the interstate system, the railroad track, Balfour Street, and Missouri Street. Here is BoJangles. Behind my business there is a ditch there by the railroad tracks. (TR 3004) There is a small ditch on our side which would be facing Missouri and you'd have to go through it to cross over the railroad tracks. On the other side of the railroad tracks, there could be a big ditch that runs through there.
The TRAIN TRACKS ran behind the restaurant. So what you have is a drunk hobo bail off a freightcar and fucked up his landing. Not suprising since he was that drunk...
How about giving us your interpretation of these facts:
--Why was there no blood at the scene of the murders??
--how do you explain the bloody guy who entered Bojangles and the evidence collected (I vaguely recall) was lost??
No blood, maybe because each kid was found in 2-1/2 ' of water? They weren't found until the next day.
But they werent brutally attacked in the water. Miskelley claimed all the attacks happened in the woods. I'm pretty sure there were a few experts that claimed these types of injuries would have left substantial amounts of blood on the ground in surrounding areas. They found nothing.
Bojangles is a dead end. If you read Marty King's testimony it's obvious the guy was just some drunken bum. The blood was his own from an arm injury, and he was so out of it he crapped all over himself and couldn't even use the toilet paper. Any way you look at it, he could not have been involved.
Took this from the trial transcript:
CROSS EXAMINATION OF MARTY KING BY MR. FOGLEMAN
BY MR. FOGLEMAN: I am marking on the map, State's Ex. #2: the interstate system, the railroad track, Balfour Street, and Missouri Street. Here is BoJangles. Behind my business there is a ditch there by the railroad tracks. (TR 3004) There is a small ditch on our side which would be facing Missouri and you'd have to go through it to cross over the railroad tracks. On the other side of the railroad tracks, there could be a big ditch that runs through there.
The TRAIN TRACKS ran behind the restaurant. So what you have is a drunk hobo bail off a freightcar and fucked up his landing. Not suprising since he was that drunk...
He very well might have just been a drunken bum, but I disagree that "anyway you look at it, he couldnt have been involved." By the way, many homeless people often have the same difficult mental instabilities that you keep bringing up about Echols. Another point about the Bojangles incident was that some or all of that evidence was LOST by the authorities! thats convenient! Shittty, shitty jobs by all of the authorities in this case. Another thing that was brought to my attention by the Paradise Lost documentaries was how you see the police trudging around the crime scene.. They didnt treat the scene correctly, and they didnt do their jobs. They tried to get the job done the easy and lazy way.
Again, I am nuetral on whether or not they commited the crime. I am adamant that they got shafted at their original trial.
1. YOU are now creating biased false info. That bottle wasnt found at the scene. it was by a bridge, where they frequently walked past. Also, I agree with Facepollution.. a broken bottle that he saw isnt great evidence.
2. I agree with facepollution again on the alibi thing. I was home playing video games by myself last sunday. If I was accused of murder, i'd have no alibi. Maybe they knew that their reputations would bring heat and being a stupid 16-17 year old, they made shit up. Not uncommon.
3. Failed polys? So what. see facepollutions post too. Do you have details of this too?.. I honestly havent seen this before.
4. Mental history could be analyzed if there was pure evidence that they did the murders. Again, there are tons of unbalanced folks out there.. this has NOTHING to do with the actual crime. if you saw the art I created between the age of 12-17, you'd put me in a mental institution too.
** HOW COME YOU DISMISSED MY LAST TWO QUESTIONS??
1. Yes, the broken Evan Williams bottle was found beneath an overpass where Jessie said he THREW it when coming home from the crime scene... Jesse also confessed multiple even after conviction. Whdy do you dismiss that?
2. I wish you would actually read how many times they changed their stories and alibis and still all were lies. All covering the time the murder took place. IF your innocent, why do you need to make up alibis?
3. Carson passed his test, Damien didn't...
4. Do me a favor and read his mental history index 500 I have posted it. He had a HISTORY of violence, was hospitialized for violence, his mental history is not something that should be ignored. It does not make him a murder. His mental history was also generally not used.
Here is the second half of his mental history index 500. Please highligh in which parts are comparable to you at that age, since your painints would put you in a mental institution.
186-189 Admission Psychiatric Evaluation 6/2/92 - CHoLR
-suicidal ideation, "history of extreme physical aggression toward others"
-"Supposedly, Damien chased a younger child with an ax and attempted to set a house on fire. He denies this behavior."
190-191 History and Physical - CHoLR 6/2/92
192-198 Psychological Report 6/8/92 by Lewis Bracy
199-209 MMPI report 6/92
210-217 MAPI report 6/92
"characterized by impulsive hostility, an apprehensive mistrust of others and an edgy defensiveness against criticism. Fearing that others will dominate and possibly brutalize him, he puts forward a socially blunt and aggressive public posture. He fantasizes being all powerful so as to block others from possessing the means to be belittling and harmful. He believes that only alert vigilance and vigorous counter=action can prevent the malice of others. ... The desire to gain power and demean others springs from animosity and a wish to vindicate past grievances. Although frequently unsuccessful in these aims, this teenager believes that past degradations may be undone by provoking fear and intimidation in others."
218-229 Nursing Assessment 6/1/92
230-231 Adolescent Developmental History - CHoLR
232-238 Psychological Assessment - CHoLR 6/2/92
- "I have no feelings about suicide. I know that I can be reincarnated. I'm not afraid."
- burning himself with lighters
- Damien set fire to classroom twice; threatened to put "hexes" on teachers
- Sniffing air, cutting eyes, possibly responding to hallucinations
- During arrest, "Damien states that he was able to work his fingers loose, moved over and was able to slip the safety off of the police officer's gun which had been left in the police vehicle. Damien freely admitted that he had plans to shoot the girlfriend's father if he acted in an aggressive manner toward the girl."
239-240 Family questionnaire - CHoLR - Pam Echols
241-256 CHoLR forms
257-275 Treatment plan 6/92
- Trying to suck blood off peers who have scratched themselves.
- flat affect, sullen, withdrawn
- possibley responding to hallucinations
276-277 Nursing Discharge - CHoLR 6/25/92
278-288 Physician's Progress Notes (daily notes) 6/92
"his affect is inappropriate. He has trouble making eye contact. He is quite paranoid. He has been drawing symbols."
289-309 Physician's Progress Notes (diff handwriting) 6/92
- believes surveillance cameras behind his mirror and under his desk in his room, cautioned peers that staff are constantly watching them.
- Flat, monotone, glassy look. Continues to look away, may be responding to voices heard within.
- drawing witchcraft symbols, making cat purr noise
- Pam Echols concerned about son "not learning to deal w anger and rages", worried her son responding to outside stimulation. Voiced fear "son may be crazy."
- extremely flat affect mentioned repeatedly
310-312 Physician's Orders CHoLR
313-318 Routine Medication CHoLR
319-320 Therapeutic Leave notes CHoLR 6/19-21/92
321-339 CHoLR forms
=====
June CHoLR stay done // Sep stay begins
=====
340 Inquisitor Inc cover sheet
341-342 TRIMS Hospital Form 9/10/92
-Presenting problems: "Homicidal" and "Psychoses" checked off
-Notes: "??ed him down to the ground, sucked the blood from the arm, rubbed it over his face and body, and say he is a blood sucking vampire."
- "past 72 hours { says he is going to eat father and that he needs to be locked up or he will hurt someone. Also grabbed another person and tried to suck their blood.
- Jerry Driver listed as Referral
343 Info form
344 AK Dept of Human Services - Medicaid
-blood sucking & smearing, threatening to eat father
345 Adjudication Order - 9/14/92
- violation of probation by threatening the life of his mother and father and refusing to obey their lawful commands
346-348 Change in Custody Order 9/14/92
Damien custody transferred to Patricia Ann Liggett (aunt)
349-356 Admission forms for CHoLR 9/14/92
357-367 Assessment CHoLR 9/16/92
"Presently in detention in Jonesboro, picked up for violation of probation, threatened to slit parents' throat and eat them alive. Transferred to Crittenden, one of the kids at the detention hall cut his wrists, Damien grabbed his arm and began to the suck the blood, smeared it over his body and said he's a devil worshipping vampire. Says he's not a vampire but a witch. He is in isolation and suicide watch."
-Delusions: says he's going to be married in 3 days but doesn't know who he will
-Violence in family: was staying w Mom & Dad in Oregon; Dad threatened to hit him & he threatened to kill dad
-Inpatient history - St. Vincent Hospital in Oregon weekend of Aug 12, early Sept
-sexual history
-more on threats to slash both parents throats, eat them alive
-runaway incident: threats to kill officer, threat to kill gf dad
-"could be a danger to others"
368-371 Psych Eval 9/15/92
372-373 History and Physical 9/14/92
374-75 Psychosocial Assessment Update 9/15/92
- white witch, devil worshipping
- threats to kill police officer and girlfriend's father
- "Damien's behavoirs have become frightening to some of the community members in the Jonesboro area."
- in Oregon "at several times had threatened to kill his father"; "Damien returned to the home and made advances on the father. The father felt threatened and was concerned for his welfare as well as his wife's and other child in the home. Damien was moved to the detention center in the Oregon area. While in the detention center, Damien witnessed a co-patient slashing his wrist. Damien is reported to have knocked the co-patient to the ground and began to suck the young man's blood."
-"Damien has made several statements indicating that he has a desire to harm others. Primary targets of his aggression to include authority figures."
- During this assessment, Damien "readily answered questions concerning his religious beliefs and the fact that he believes that he is a vampire and does worship the devil. It was the social worker's opinion that Damien was not disclosing information for the purposes of schock, that he was simply disclosing what he currently is believing. ... However, his behaviors could best be described as odd and bizzare. Damien smiled at inappropriate times. He cut his eyes back and forth as if he was responding to external stimulation. He seemed to be giggling at something that he was saying or a private joke that was unknown to this social worker."
377-383 reprint of June assessment
384-402 medical, nutrition, educational, etc
-growling noises to scare the other students
-Objective = "patient will be able to distinguish reality as demonstrated by ability to appropriately respond to environment stimuli"
403-416 Treatment plan 9/92 various forms
412: "could be danger to others"
417-424 Physician's Progress Notes (9/15-9/28)
425-436 Progress Notes (9/15-9/28)
- stated he had attempted suicide before and 'was not worried about trying again because I know I can come back."
- peers complaining of Damien making growling sounds at them
- continuing to make bizarre sounds around peers; continuous talk of Satanism to peers
- continues laughing strangely and getting peers to feed into his satanism
-lots more references to flat affect, withdrawn, daydreaming & staring off
440-444 Routine Medication
- all five pages list "Diagnosis: Psychotic Disorder"
445-455 various CHoLR 9/92 forms
453: staff goodbye notes - "Let people like you for you!"
456-461 Discharge forms 9/28/92
457 blood sucking
During stay: "He did bite a male peer; however, this was in a fight type manner."
457-58 "At the time of discharge, it was felt that Damien's behavior had stabilized to the point to where he no longer needed to remain in an acute care setting. He was not considered a danger to others at the time of his discharge. ... Damien has contracted that he will not attempt to harm anyone after the time of discharge."
462-463 Inquisitor Inc forms
464 Craighead County Juvenile Detention Center report by Joyce Cureton
regarding Damien grabbing boy's arm and sucking blood. "The boys all stated he had been saying he had not taken his medication the night before, and he was about to 'go off on them'."He also told staff he had threatened to kill his father and eat him.
465 memorandum on home study
466-470 Intake Summary 8/17/92 Oregon
467: Jerry Driver's belief that "Damien and several others of his associates are involved in a satanic cult. / Damien and his girlfriend were planning to have a child, so that they could offer it as a sacrifice to Satan. / The authorities in Arkansas suspect that Damien's parents are involved in this satanic belief system."
469: "Damien denies any involvement in satanic cult or beliefs in Satanism. He expressed considerable displaeaure with Mr. Driver in making such assertions. Damien did acknowledge a suicide pact that he and his girlfriend has made"
471 Juvenile Compact Form (Oregon 8/13/92)
472 Referral Communicatin Log 9/14/92
Jerry Driver gives name of someone at Oregon hospital for consult
473-483 forms, info releases
484-85 Notebook pages, drawing and poems
486-487 personal written statement
488-493 questionaires from hospital w handwritten responses
-long term goal: "to own a new age shop"
-people i'd like to meet: Anton Levay, Stephen King
blockhead i think you are swimming against the current here. most of us have read what you have posted and it just does not make it completely clear that these three committed the murders. there are too many inconsistencies and if i were a juror i would not be completely convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.
no offense intended man, but sometimes i think that you enjoy the conflict created in these threads.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
blockhead i think you are swimming against the current here. most of us have read what you have posted and it just does not make it completely clear that these three committed the murders. there are too many inconsistencies and if i were a juror i would not be completely convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.
no offense intended man, but sometimes i think that you enjoy the conflict created in these threads.
Most of you have read Damiens medical records?
Most of you have read the court transcripts???
heheheheheheheheheheheh
99% of the people here have no idea those medical records even existed...
99% of the people here have NEVER read Damiens medical records...
99% of the people here have NEVER read the court transcripts.....
Because these little tidbits of info were never brought up in those made for TV documentaries.
As I have been saying for years...
Damien Echols is a piece of crap...
Who was convicted of MURDER....
And just last week walked into a courtroom and pled GUILTY to 1st degree murder....
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
But they werent brutally attacked in the water. Miskelley claimed all the attacks happened in the woods. I'm pretty sure there were a few experts that claimed these types of injuries would have left substantial amounts of blood on the ground in surrounding areas. They found nothing.
He very well might have just been a drunken bum, but I disagree that "anyway you look at it, he couldnt have been involved." By the way, many homeless people often have the same difficult mental instabilities that you keep bringing up about Echols. Another point about the Bojangles incident was that some or all of that evidence was LOST by the authorities! thats convenient! Shittty, shitty jobs by all of the authorities in this case. Another thing that was brought to my attention by the Paradise Lost documentaries was how you see the police trudging around the crime scene.. They didnt treat the scene correctly, and they didnt do their jobs. They tried to get the job done the easy and lazy way.
Please list evidence that was lost...
Please quit citing the PL 1 & 2 movies as proof of anything.
Please read damiens mental history before comparing it to yours or some hobos.
You can pile all that mental history stuff a mile high if you want...Yes, it would make me more inclined to believe that this justified he was a murderer if there was better evidence that he murdered the 3 boys.
Yes, Miskelleys confessions are weird - I dont dismiss it. I just try to remain neutral because his first confessoin was completely false and it was handled by some of the same idiot cops who dont know how to handle a crime scene. Wasnt there a problem with them questioning him too -- without the parents present/consent?? Several other things he said didnt match up with the timeline of how things happened in the actual murders. He was weird, and a little slow and kinda stupid. I dont know what to think of his confessions, But I do know they werent allowed in the Echols trial -- and the evidence produced for the Echols trial didnt warrant a guilty verdict with the death penalty being the punishment .
You can pile all that mental history stuff a mile high if you want...Yes, it would make me more inclined to believe that this justified he was a murderer if there was better evidence that he murdered the 3 boys.
Yes, Miskelleys confessions are weird - I dont dismiss it. I just try to remain neutral because his first confessoin was completely false and it was handled by some of the same idiot cops who dont know how to handle a crime scene. Wasnt there a problem with them questioning him too -- without the parents present/consent?? Several other things he said didnt match up with the timeline of how things happened in the actual murders. He was weird, and a little slow and kinda stupid. I dont know what to think of his confessions, But I do know they werent allowed in the Echols trial -- and the evidence produced for the Echols trial didnt warrant a guilty verdict with the death penalty being the punishment .
Its clear you haven't ready anything I have posted. so please quit addressing me.
I have posted about the lie the misskelly was "mentally challanged" and how they had him appear dumber taking his IQ. His score plunged 13 points before trial. Please look at my post (with court supported docuemnts) on page 6 or 7. He did have his fathers consent for his confession. I don't know where you get your info but I have posted the site with documents please take a look at them if you actually care. Quit asking questions or making comments that are in biased documentaries.
Where was damien during the time of the murder since you have all the answers.
Please quit citing the PL 1 & 2 movies as proof of anything.
Umm, No, absolutley not. I'll quit citing these when you leave out things that have no bearing on the original trials.
Its not my ONLY source of knowledge to the case btw. You forget that I told you I watched the documentaries with the knowledge that it was biased, but the VIDEO taken of the cops doesnt lie...there is video of the actual crime scene in Paradise Lost. There is video of the cops acting like idiots all over the scene, potentially destroying evidence. This is widely known fact.
99% of the people here have no idea those medical records even existed...
99% of the people here have NEVER read Damiens medical records...
99% of the people here have NEVER read the court transcripts.....
Because these little tidbits of info were never brought up in those made for TV documentaries.
As I have been saying for years...
Damien Echols is a piece of crap...
Who was convicted of MURDER....
And just last week walked into a courtroom and pled GUILTY to 1st degree murder....
Its obvious that no one in hear has read them (as no one has referenced them for support) and continue not to read them after being posted and summarized. Please are still talking about misskelly being mentally retarded and I posted the lie (with court documents) on page 6 or 7.
Its clear you haven't ready anything I have posted. so please quit addressing me.
I have posted about the lie the misskelly was "mentally challanged" and how they had him appear dumber taking his IQ. His score plunged 13 points before trial. Please look at my post (with court supported docuemnts) on page 6 or 7. He did have his fathers consent for his confession. I don't know where you get your info but I have posted the site with documents please take a look at them if you actually care. Quit asking questions or making comments that are in biased documentaries.
Where was damien during the time of the murder since you have all the answers.
I've read most of what you posted. I know Miskelleys 72 IQ test might be misleading. But there's no denying that he wasnt a bright kid.
I only brought up the documentaries about the VIDEO taken of the cops (video taken BY the COPS for that matter -- how the fuck is that biased?? :roll: ), thats it, stop trying to make it look like thats all i've seen, you're making yourself look ignorant.
blockhead i think you are swimming against the current here. most of us have read what you have posted and it just does not make it completely clear that these three committed the murders. there are too many inconsistencies and if i were a juror i would not be completely convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.
no offense intended man, but sometimes i think that you enjoy the conflict created in these threads.
This is what i've been saying all along too. I honestly dont know if Echols and Baldwin are guilty. But I do know that their original trial was a farce, and I am amazed at how poorly the authorities handled it. I couldnt not vote guilty - and send Echols to his death -- on the evidence presented.
Please quit citing the PL 1 & 2 movies as proof of anything.
Umm, No, absolutley not. I'll quit citing these when you leave out things that have no bearing on the original trials.
Its not my ONLY source of knowledge to the case btw. You forget that I told you I watched the documentaries with the knowledge that it was biased, but the VIDEO taken of the cops doesnt lie...there is video of the actual crime scene in Paradise Lost. There is video of the cops acting like idiots all over the scene, potentially destroying evidence. This is widely known fact.
Please post link to video.
What evidence was destroyed?
-The bodies were searched for. May 6th
-All items found during that search: shirts, pants, sneakers, shirts, jeans, wallet, etc were searched for and found on May 6th.
-The ditch was sandbagged and photographed/filmed on May 6th. The sandbagging was done to SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE.
-The area was taped off May 6th.
Detective Allen testimony regarding May 6th:
Q: Alright. What was done in the, in that entire wooded area?
A: There were, there were numerous things done. There was a search made, um, I say inch by inch, there was a search.
Q: How was that conducted when you say it was done "inch by inch?" What does that mean?
A: Well, I - it's quite a large area. We took all the detectives out in that area, uh, we started roughly from the interstate, the patch of woods next to the interstate. We walked it shoulder to shoulder, uh about, we walked within hand's distance. We kinda lined up where we were actually touching each other's hands down a row and we walked into the woods. We walked from the, from one side of the woods to the other side and then we got and kinda made a chain down another section hand to hand and we walked back. We basically...
Q: Did you do that for the entire...
A: The entire wooded section.
From Bryn Ridge's testimony regarding May 6th:
FOGLEMAN: Was anything done to secure the scene?
RIDGE: Yes, we started having people, anybody that was there, of course when I got there, there was Mike Allen and Lt. Hester and Inspector Gitchell was there somewhere but I'm not exactly sure where he was. I was focusing on what was going on in the ditch and myself and Mike Allen actually went into the ditch.
FOGLEMAN: Okay well, what did you do to secure the scene at that point?
RIDGE: Uh tape, this crime scene tape was put out, a path was secured coming from outside of the woods into the crime scene so that we could come in in a unique ways in order that if there was evidence there that we had missed then we would not have destroyed that on the original paths.
<snip>
FOGLEMAN: Okay when you say you were searching the bottom of the ditch what do you mean?
RIDGE: Okay. Obviously you can't see into this muddy water, so, the best way to describe it is I actually do it from the water level, I was raking my hands from one bank of the water to where it came out on the other side along the bottom all the way.
<snip>
RIDGE: Yes, I did. I'm the one that actually stayed in that ditch the entire time and from start to finish until all of the bodies were found, to as far as I could go in that ditch and reach the bottom that's the way I searched it.
FOGLEMAN: About how many feet would you say that you went in that manner?
RIDGE: Probably about 45 feet.
<snip>
Ridge:......we were searching for anything that may have been missed during the initial search going through there and we pumped all of the water out. This is a suction hose where we were pumping the water out of the stream.
FOGLEMAN: Alright, let me ask you a question about that one while you've got it. You say you pumped all the water out?
RIDGE: All that we could get out of it.
FOGLEMAN: Alright, and then after you pumped all of the water out what did you do in looking for evidence?
RIDGE: Again we visually searched for everything. We got a metal detector. We searched everything that was there trying to find anything that may have been a piece of evidence
So again, What evidence was destroyed?
Its clear you haven't ready anything I have posted. so please quit addressing me.
I have posted about the lie the misskelly was "mentally challanged" and how they had him appear dumber taking his IQ. His score plunged 13 points before trial. Please look at my post (with court supported docuemnts) on page 6 or 7. He did have his fathers consent for his confession. I don't know where you get your info but I have posted the site with documents please take a look at them if you actually care. Quit asking questions or making comments that are in biased documentaries.
Where was damien during the time of the murder since you have all the answers.
I've read most of what you posted. I know Miskelleys 72 IQ test might be misleading. But there's no denying that he wasnt a bright kid.
I only brought up the documentaries about the VIDEO taken of the cops (video taken BY the COPS for that matter -- how the fuck is that biased?? :roll: ), thats it, stop trying to make it look like thats all i've seen, you're making yourself look ignorant.
Please read what I posed. His IQ was normal, there is no other way around it.
Never once in the last 5 years...All the little documentaries I have watched...60 minutes?? 20/20?? Blah Blah Blah....All the little news specials on the West Memphis 3...
Never once did they EVER bring up Damiens mental history...
Never once did they actually bring up the court transcripts...
Never once did they bring up Jesse confessing with a lawyer present....
All they said was "These were 3 kids who listened to heavy metal and dressed different"
Which is nothing but PURE HORSESHIT!!!!!
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Never once in the last 5 years...All the little documentaries I have watched...60 minutes?? 20/20?? Blah Blah Blah....All the little news specials on the West Memphis 3...
Never once did they EVER bring up Damiens mental history...
Never once did they actually bring up the court transcripts...
Never once did they bring up Jesse confessing with a lawyer present....
All they said was "These were 3 kids who listened to heavy metal and dressed different"
Which is nothing but PURE HORSESHIT!!!!!
Anyone who can ignore confession after confession after confession - including a taped statement to his own attorneys in private - simply doesn't WANT to believe Misskelley
Never once in the last 5 years...All the little documentaries I have watched...60 minutes?? 20/20?? Blah Blah Blah....All the little news specials on the West Memphis 3...
Never once did they EVER bring up Damiens mental history...
Never once did they actually bring up the court transcripts...
Never once did they bring up Jesse confessing with a lawyer present....
All they said was "These were 3 kids who listened to heavy metal and dressed different"
Which is nothing but PURE HORSESHIT!!!!!
Thanks for actually taking the time to read Damiens mental history.
I dont have time to go digging up shit, but this is what i've heard many times from one of the boys lawyers:
There has been widespread criticism of how the police handled the crime scene. Misskelley's former attorney Dan Stidham cites multiple substantial police errors at the crime scene, characterizing it as "literally trampled, especially the creek bed. The bodies, he said, had been removed from the water before the coroner arrived to examine the scene and determine the state of rigor mortis, allowing the bodies to decay on the creek bank, and to be exposed to sunlight and insects. The police did not telephone the coroner until almost two hours after the discovery of the floating shoe, resulting in a late appearance by the coroner. Officials failed to drain the creek in a timely manner and secure possible evidence in the water (the creek was sandbagged after the bodies were pulled from the water). Stidham calls the coroner's investigation "extremely substandard." There was a small amount of blood found at the scene that was never tested.
Also:
According to Mara Leveritt, investigative journalist and author of Devil's Knot, "Police records were a mess. To call them disorderly would be putting it mildly." Leveritt speculated that the small local police force was overwhelmed by the crime, which was unlike any they had ever investigated. Police refused an unsolicited offer of aid and consultation from the violent crimes experts of the Arkansas State Police, and critics suggested this was due to the WMPD being investigated by the Arkansas State Police for suspected theft from the Crittenden County drug task force. Leveritt further noted that some of the physical evidence was stored in paper sacks obtained from a supermarket (with the supermarket's name pre-printed on the bags) rather than in containers of known and controlled origin.
Leveritt also mistakenly presumed that the crime scene video was shot minutes after Detectives Mike Allen and Bryn Ridge recovered two of the bodies, when in fact the camera was not available for almost thirty minutes afterward.
When police speculated about the assailant, the juvenile probation officer assisting at the scene of the murders speculated that Echols was "capable" of committing the murders, stating "it looks like Damien Echols finally killed someone."
One expert in the film Paradise Lost 2: Revelations, stated that human bite marks could have been left on at least one of the victims. However, these potential bite marks were first noticed in photographs years after the trials and were not inspected by a board-certified medical examiner until four years after the murders. The defense's expert testified that the mark in question was not an adult bite mark, while experts put on by the State concluded that there was no bite mark at all. The State's experts had examined the actual bodies for any marks and others conducted expert photo analysis of injuries. Upon further examination, it was concluded that if the marks were bite marks, they did not match the teeth of any of the three convicted.
Never once in the last 5 years...All the little documentaries I have watched...60 minutes?? 20/20?? Blah Blah Blah....All the little news specials on the West Memphis 3...
Never once did they EVER bring up Damiens mental history...
Never once did they actually bring up the court transcripts...
Never once did they bring up Jesse confessing with a lawyer present....
All they said was "These were 3 kids who listened to heavy metal and dressed different"
Which is nothing but PURE HORSESHIT!!!!!
Anyone who can ignore confession after confession after confession - including a taped statement to his own attorneys in private - simply doesn't WANT to believe Misskelley
Like i've said a hundred times, I do not consider Echols, Balwin and Miskelley innocent. This is the most concerning thing to me.. Miskelleys inconsistencies and lies.. but Convicting them and sentencing to death on this shoddy confessoin is inappropraite in my opinion.
Never once in the last 5 years...All the little documentaries I have watched...60 minutes?? 20/20?? Blah Blah Blah....All the little news specials on the West Memphis 3...
Never once did they EVER bring up Damiens mental history...
Never once did they actually bring up the court transcripts...
Never once did they bring up Jesse confessing with a lawyer present....
All they said was "These were 3 kids who listened to heavy metal and dressed different"
Which is nothing but PURE HORSESHIT!!!!!
Thanks for actually taking the time to read Damiens mental history.
I have read those documents and transcripts for years. It paints a very pretty picture of Mr. Echols. Doesnt it?
But for years Mr. Vedder has pushed this guy in our faces...
For years we have been asked do donate money for Mr. Echols...
Give me a fucking break.
Has Mr. Vedder actually read these medical records?
Has Mr. Vedder actually read the court transcripts?
Or is Mr. Vedder another one who thinks they were convicted because they wore strange clothing and listened to heavy metal?
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I dont have time to go digging up shit, but this is what i've heard many times from one of the boys lawyers:
There has been widespread criticism of how the police handled the crime scene. Misskelley's former attorney Dan Stidham cites multiple substantial police errors at the crime scene, characterizing it as "literally trampled, especially the creek bed. The bodies, he said, had been removed from the water before the coroner arrived to examine the scene and determine the state of rigor mortis, allowing the bodies to decay on the creek bank, and to be exposed to sunlight and insects. The police did not telephone the coroner until almost two hours after the discovery of the floating shoe, resulting in a late appearance by the coroner. Officials failed to drain the creek in a timely manner and secure possible evidence in the water (the creek was sandbagged after the bodies were pulled from the water). Stidham calls the coroner's investigation "extremely substandard." There was a small amount of blood found at the scene that was never tested.
Also:
According to Mara Leveritt, investigative journalist and author of Devil's Knot, "Police records were a mess. To call them disorderly would be putting it mildly." Leveritt speculated that the small local police force was overwhelmed by the crime, which was unlike any they had ever investigated. Police refused an unsolicited offer of aid and consultation from the violent crimes experts of the Arkansas State Police, and critics suggested this was due to the WMPD being investigated by the Arkansas State Police for suspected theft from the Crittenden County drug task force. Leveritt further noted that some of the physical evidence was stored in paper sacks obtained from a supermarket (with the supermarket's name pre-printed on the bags) rather than in containers of known and controlled origin.
Leveritt also mistakenly presumed that the crime scene video was shot minutes after Detectives Mike Allen and Bryn Ridge recovered two of the bodies, when in fact the camera was not available for almost thirty minutes afterward.
When police speculated about the assailant, the juvenile probation officer assisting at the scene of the murders speculated that Echols was "capable" of committing the murders, stating "it looks like Damien Echols finally killed someone."
One expert in the film Paradise Lost 2: Revelations, stated that human bite marks could have been left on at least one of the victims. However, these potential bite marks were first noticed in photographs years after the trials and were not inspected by a board-certified medical examiner until four years after the murders. The defense's expert testified that the mark in question was not an adult bite mark, while experts put on by the State concluded that there was no bite mark at all. The State's experts had examined the actual bodies for any marks and others conducted expert photo analysis of injuries. Upon further examination, it was concluded that if the marks were bite marks, they did not match the teeth of any of the three convicted.
You need to do your research on Stidham, He still says jesse has the mental capacity of a 5 year old.
Also to your second paragraphy, like I said before you need to quit gettting your infor from those documentaries.
For one, according to the ruler, the "bitemark" is just over an inch in circumference. Who's mouth is that little?
Here's the ruling:
Under this claim, the petitioner attempted to establish a "bite mark" on the face of one of the victims and argued that failure to recognize and develop evidence was incompetence on the part of petitioner's counsel Price and Davidson. Evidence is new only if it was not available at trial and could not have been discovered earlier through the exercise of reasonable diligence, Amrine v. Bowersox, 128 F.3d 1222, 1230 (8th Cir. 1997), cert. denied, 118 S.Ct. 1807 (1998).
The "bite marks" were on the victim's face from the initial discovery of the bodies. Furthermore, the evidence is not reliable. The bulk of the testimony at the evidentiary hearing was that no bite mark could be identified to a reasonable degree of medical certainty.
The testimony of Doctors Peretti, Sturner, and Dugan, and that of Val Price and defendant's investigator, Ron Lax, established that there are not identifiable bite marks on the photographs of the bodies. Dr. Harry Mincer testified that the identification of bite marks is not an exact science. Dr. Mincer, president of the American Board of Forensic Odontology and an expert in the field of forensic odontology also concluded that the mark over the eye brow of Steve Branch was not a bite mark within a degree of reasonable medical certainty.
As you can see, even the bulk of the Defense witnesses failed to identify a human bitemark
perhaps speedy and blockhead should have tried the case then...because they clearly would have been better state's attorneys.
Perhaps you should get out of this thread if your not going to contribute? You said earlier you were not going to go into your "research" and conclusions for why the are not guilty. So why are you still in here?
perhaps speedy and blockhead should have tried the case then...because they clearly would have been better state's attorneys.
Lets just stick to the discussion and not get personal with one another...Is that possible?
Sound good??
Can ya handle that???
chill out, it was a compliment...
I would LOVE to hear a discussion with Mr. Vedder, Mr. Depp, and Mr. Dixie Chick.....I would LOVE to hear their reactions and opinions to the medical records of Mr. Echols and the court transcripts. I would truly LOVE to hear their opinions. Wouldnt you?
Because I would truly like to know what it is about Damien Echols, that just fascinates the holy hell out of Mr. Vedder.
Because everything I have ever read about Mr. Echols?? Basically disgusts me.
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I dont have time to go digging up shit, but this is what i've heard many times from one of the boys lawyers:
There has been widespread criticism of how the police handled the crime scene. Misskelley's former attorney Dan Stidham cites multiple substantial police errors at the crime scene, characterizing it as "literally trampled, especially the creek bed. The bodies, he said, had been removed from the water before the coroner arrived to examine the scene and determine the state of rigor mortis, allowing the bodies to decay on the creek bank, and to be exposed to sunlight and insects. The police did not telephone the coroner until almost two hours after the discovery of the floating shoe, resulting in a late appearance by the coroner. Officials failed to drain the creek in a timely manner and secure possible evidence in the water (the creek was sandbagged after the bodies were pulled from the water). Stidham calls the coroner's investigation "extremely substandard." There was a small amount of blood found at the scene that was never tested.
Also:
According to Mara Leveritt, investigative journalist and author of Devil's Knot, "Police records were a mess. To call them disorderly would be putting it mildly." Leveritt speculated that the small local police force was overwhelmed by the crime, which was unlike any they had ever investigated. Police refused an unsolicited offer of aid and consultation from the violent crimes experts of the Arkansas State Police, and critics suggested this was due to the WMPD being investigated by the Arkansas State Police for suspected theft from the Crittenden County drug task force. Leveritt further noted that some of the physical evidence was stored in paper sacks obtained from a supermarket (with the supermarket's name pre-printed on the bags) rather than in containers of known and controlled origin.
Leveritt also mistakenly presumed that the crime scene video was shot minutes after Detectives Mike Allen and Bryn Ridge recovered two of the bodies, when in fact the camera was not available for almost thirty minutes afterward.
When police speculated about the assailant, the juvenile probation officer assisting at the scene of the murders speculated that Echols was "capable" of committing the murders, stating "it looks like Damien Echols finally killed someone."
One expert in the film Paradise Lost 2: Revelations, stated that human bite marks could have been left on at least one of the victims. However, these potential bite marks were first noticed in photographs years after the trials and were not inspected by a board-certified medical examiner until four years after the murders. The defense's expert testified that the mark in question was not an adult bite mark, while experts put on by the State concluded that there was no bite mark at all. The State's experts had examined the actual bodies for any marks and others conducted expert photo analysis of injuries. Upon further examination, it was concluded that if the marks were bite marks, they did not match the teeth of any of the three convicted.
You need to do your research on Stidham, He still says jesse has the mental capacity of a 5 year old.
Also to your second paragraphy, like I said before you need to quit gettting your infor from those documentaries.
For one, according to the ruler, the "bitemark" is just over an inch in circumference. Who's mouth is that little?
Here's the ruling:
Under this claim, the petitioner attempted to establish a "bite mark" on the face of one of the victims and argued that failure to recognize and develop evidence was incompetence on the part of petitioner's counsel Price and Davidson. Evidence is new only if it was not available at trial and could not have been discovered earlier through the exercise of reasonable diligence, Amrine v. Bowersox, 128 F.3d 1222, 1230 (8th Cir. 1997), cert. denied, 118 S.Ct. 1807 (1998).
The "bite marks" were on the victim's face from the initial discovery of the bodies. Furthermore, the evidence is not reliable. The bulk of the testimony at the evidentiary hearing was that no bite mark could be identified to a reasonable degree of medical certainty.
The testimony of Doctors Peretti, Sturner, and Dugan, and that of Val Price and defendant's investigator, Ron Lax, established that there are not identifiable bite marks on the photographs of the bodies. Dr. Harry Mincer testified that the identification of bite marks is not an exact science. Dr. Mincer, president of the American Board of Forensic Odontology and an expert in the field of forensic odontology also concluded that the mark over the eye brow of Steve Branch was not a bite mark within a degree of reasonable medical certainty.
As you can see, even the bulk of the Defense witnesses failed to identify a human bitemark
I just dont underastand why you cant accept that the scene was handled poorly. The entire case was handled poorly. Yes, there are many, many biased opinions on this case, but in the end, the way evidence was handled was a joke and the authorities fucked up continuously.
Again, Echols and Miskelley were VERY fucked up kids. No denying that. But what was used at trail was a sham and did not warrant a guilty verdict. If those copes/detectives had done their job better, maybe, just maybe Echols would still be in jail. I dont know why you keep dismissing that. the Shit job the authorities did to implicate Echols is exactly what set him free. You should be bashing these authorities with equal conviction.
Comments
Bojangles is a dead end. If you read Marty King's testimony it's obvious the guy was just some drunken bum. The blood was his own from an arm injury, and he was so out of it he crapped all over himself and couldn't even use the toilet paper. Any way you look at it, he could not have been involved.
Took this from the trial transcript:
CROSS EXAMINATION OF MARTY KING BY MR. FOGLEMAN
BY MR. FOGLEMAN: I am marking on the map, State's Ex. #2: the interstate system, the railroad track, Balfour Street, and Missouri Street. Here is BoJangles. Behind my business there is a ditch there by the railroad tracks. (TR 3004) There is a small ditch on our side which would be facing Missouri and you'd have to go through it to cross over the railroad tracks. On the other side of the railroad tracks, there could be a big ditch that runs through there.
The TRAIN TRACKS ran behind the restaurant. So what you have is a drunk hobo bail off a freightcar and fucked up his landing. Not suprising since he was that drunk...
But they werent brutally attacked in the water. Miskelley claimed all the attacks happened in the woods. I'm pretty sure there were a few experts that claimed these types of injuries would have left substantial amounts of blood on the ground in surrounding areas. They found nothing.
He very well might have just been a drunken bum, but I disagree that "anyway you look at it, he couldnt have been involved." By the way, many homeless people often have the same difficult mental instabilities that you keep bringing up about Echols. Another point about the Bojangles incident was that some or all of that evidence was LOST by the authorities! thats convenient! Shittty, shitty jobs by all of the authorities in this case. Another thing that was brought to my attention by the Paradise Lost documentaries was how you see the police trudging around the crime scene.. They didnt treat the scene correctly, and they didnt do their jobs. They tried to get the job done the easy and lazy way.
2. I wish you would actually read how many times they changed their stories and alibis and still all were lies. All covering the time the murder took place. IF your innocent, why do you need to make up alibis?
3. Carson passed his test, Damien didn't...
4. Do me a favor and read his mental history index 500 I have posted it. He had a HISTORY of violence, was hospitialized for violence, his mental history is not something that should be ignored. It does not make him a murder. His mental history was also generally not used.
Here is the second half of his mental history index 500. Please highligh in which parts are comparable to you at that age, since your painints would put you in a mental institution.
186-189 Admission Psychiatric Evaluation 6/2/92 - CHoLR
-suicidal ideation, "history of extreme physical aggression toward others"
-"Supposedly, Damien chased a younger child with an ax and attempted to set a house on fire. He denies this behavior."
190-191 History and Physical - CHoLR 6/2/92
192-198 Psychological Report 6/8/92 by Lewis Bracy
199-209 MMPI report 6/92
210-217 MAPI report 6/92
"characterized by impulsive hostility, an apprehensive mistrust of others and an edgy defensiveness against criticism. Fearing that others will dominate and possibly brutalize him, he puts forward a socially blunt and aggressive public posture. He fantasizes being all powerful so as to block others from possessing the means to be belittling and harmful. He believes that only alert vigilance and vigorous counter=action can prevent the malice of others. ... The desire to gain power and demean others springs from animosity and a wish to vindicate past grievances. Although frequently unsuccessful in these aims, this teenager believes that past degradations may be undone by provoking fear and intimidation in others."
218-229 Nursing Assessment 6/1/92
230-231 Adolescent Developmental History - CHoLR
232-238 Psychological Assessment - CHoLR 6/2/92
- "I have no feelings about suicide. I know that I can be reincarnated. I'm not afraid."
- burning himself with lighters
- Damien set fire to classroom twice; threatened to put "hexes" on teachers
- Sniffing air, cutting eyes, possibly responding to hallucinations
- During arrest, "Damien states that he was able to work his fingers loose, moved over and was able to slip the safety off of the police officer's gun which had been left in the police vehicle. Damien freely admitted that he had plans to shoot the girlfriend's father if he acted in an aggressive manner toward the girl."
239-240 Family questionnaire - CHoLR - Pam Echols
241-256 CHoLR forms
257-275 Treatment plan 6/92
- Trying to suck blood off peers who have scratched themselves.
- flat affect, sullen, withdrawn
- possibley responding to hallucinations
276-277 Nursing Discharge - CHoLR 6/25/92
278-288 Physician's Progress Notes (daily notes) 6/92
"his affect is inappropriate. He has trouble making eye contact. He is quite paranoid. He has been drawing symbols."
289-309 Physician's Progress Notes (diff handwriting) 6/92
- believes surveillance cameras behind his mirror and under his desk in his room, cautioned peers that staff are constantly watching them.
- Flat, monotone, glassy look. Continues to look away, may be responding to voices heard within.
- drawing witchcraft symbols, making cat purr noise
- Pam Echols concerned about son "not learning to deal w anger and rages", worried her son responding to outside stimulation. Voiced fear "son may be crazy."
- extremely flat affect mentioned repeatedly
310-312 Physician's Orders CHoLR
313-318 Routine Medication CHoLR
319-320 Therapeutic Leave notes CHoLR 6/19-21/92
321-339 CHoLR forms
=====
June CHoLR stay done // Sep stay begins
=====
340 Inquisitor Inc cover sheet
341-342 TRIMS Hospital Form 9/10/92
-Presenting problems: "Homicidal" and "Psychoses" checked off
-Notes: "??ed him down to the ground, sucked the blood from the arm, rubbed it over his face and body, and say he is a blood sucking vampire."
- "past 72 hours { says he is going to eat father and that he needs to be locked up or he will hurt someone. Also grabbed another person and tried to suck their blood.
- Jerry Driver listed as Referral
343 Info form
344 AK Dept of Human Services - Medicaid
-blood sucking & smearing, threatening to eat father
345 Adjudication Order - 9/14/92
- violation of probation by threatening the life of his mother and father and refusing to obey their lawful commands
346-348 Change in Custody Order 9/14/92
Damien custody transferred to Patricia Ann Liggett (aunt)
349-356 Admission forms for CHoLR 9/14/92
357-367 Assessment CHoLR 9/16/92
"Presently in detention in Jonesboro, picked up for violation of probation, threatened to slit parents' throat and eat them alive. Transferred to Crittenden, one of the kids at the detention hall cut his wrists, Damien grabbed his arm and began to the suck the blood, smeared it over his body and said he's a devil worshipping vampire. Says he's not a vampire but a witch. He is in isolation and suicide watch."
-Delusions: says he's going to be married in 3 days but doesn't know who he will
-Violence in family: was staying w Mom & Dad in Oregon; Dad threatened to hit him & he threatened to kill dad
-Inpatient history - St. Vincent Hospital in Oregon weekend of Aug 12, early Sept
-sexual history
-more on threats to slash both parents throats, eat them alive
-runaway incident: threats to kill officer, threat to kill gf dad
-"could be a danger to others"
368-371 Psych Eval 9/15/92
372-373 History and Physical 9/14/92
374-75 Psychosocial Assessment Update 9/15/92
- white witch, devil worshipping
- threats to kill police officer and girlfriend's father
- "Damien's behavoirs have become frightening to some of the community members in the Jonesboro area."
- in Oregon "at several times had threatened to kill his father"; "Damien returned to the home and made advances on the father. The father felt threatened and was concerned for his welfare as well as his wife's and other child in the home. Damien was moved to the detention center in the Oregon area. While in the detention center, Damien witnessed a co-patient slashing his wrist. Damien is reported to have knocked the co-patient to the ground and began to suck the young man's blood."
-"Damien has made several statements indicating that he has a desire to harm others. Primary targets of his aggression to include authority figures."
- During this assessment, Damien "readily answered questions concerning his religious beliefs and the fact that he believes that he is a vampire and does worship the devil. It was the social worker's opinion that Damien was not disclosing information for the purposes of schock, that he was simply disclosing what he currently is believing. ... However, his behaviors could best be described as odd and bizzare. Damien smiled at inappropriate times. He cut his eyes back and forth as if he was responding to external stimulation. He seemed to be giggling at something that he was saying or a private joke that was unknown to this social worker."
377-383 reprint of June assessment
384-402 medical, nutrition, educational, etc
-growling noises to scare the other students
-Objective = "patient will be able to distinguish reality as demonstrated by ability to appropriately respond to environment stimuli"
403-416 Treatment plan 9/92 various forms
412: "could be danger to others"
417-424 Physician's Progress Notes (9/15-9/28)
425-436 Progress Notes (9/15-9/28)
- stated he had attempted suicide before and 'was not worried about trying again because I know I can come back."
- peers complaining of Damien making growling sounds at them
- continuing to make bizarre sounds around peers; continuous talk of Satanism to peers
- continues laughing strangely and getting peers to feed into his satanism
-lots more references to flat affect, withdrawn, daydreaming & staring off
437 Physicians Orders
- "Axis I Psychotic Disorder NOS" ["Not Otherwise Specified"]
440-444 Routine Medication
- all five pages list "Diagnosis: Psychotic Disorder"
445-455 various CHoLR 9/92 forms
453: staff goodbye notes - "Let people like you for you!"
456-461 Discharge forms 9/28/92
457 blood sucking
During stay: "He did bite a male peer; however, this was in a fight type manner."
457-58 "At the time of discharge, it was felt that Damien's behavior had stabilized to the point to where he no longer needed to remain in an acute care setting. He was not considered a danger to others at the time of his discharge. ... Damien has contracted that he will not attempt to harm anyone after the time of discharge."
462-463 Inquisitor Inc forms
464 Craighead County Juvenile Detention Center report by Joyce Cureton
regarding Damien grabbing boy's arm and sucking blood. "The boys all stated he had been saying he had not taken his medication the night before, and he was about to 'go off on them'."He also told staff he had threatened to kill his father and eat him.
465 memorandum on home study
466-470 Intake Summary 8/17/92 Oregon
467: Jerry Driver's belief that "Damien and several others of his associates are involved in a satanic cult. / Damien and his girlfriend were planning to have a child, so that they could offer it as a sacrifice to Satan. / The authorities in Arkansas suspect that Damien's parents are involved in this satanic belief system."
469: "Damien denies any involvement in satanic cult or beliefs in Satanism. He expressed considerable displaeaure with Mr. Driver in making such assertions. Damien did acknowledge a suicide pact that he and his girlfriend has made"
471 Juvenile Compact Form (Oregon 8/13/92)
472 Referral Communicatin Log 9/14/92
Jerry Driver gives name of someone at Oregon hospital for consult
473-483 forms, info releases
484-85 Notebook pages, drawing and poems
486-487 personal written statement
488-493 questionaires from hospital w handwritten responses
-long term goal: "to own a new age shop"
-people i'd like to meet: Anton Levay, Stephen King
494-498 drawings, poems, stories
499-500 CHoLR questionaire 6/92
501-507 info requests, release forms
no offense intended man, but sometimes i think that you enjoy the conflict created in these threads.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Most of you have read the court transcripts???
heheheheheheheheheheheh
99% of the people here have no idea those medical records even existed...
99% of the people here have NEVER read Damiens medical records...
99% of the people here have NEVER read the court transcripts.....
Because these little tidbits of info were never brought up in those made for TV documentaries.
As I have been saying for years...
Damien Echols is a piece of crap...
Who was convicted of MURDER....
And just last week walked into a courtroom and pled GUILTY to 1st degree murder....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Please quit citing the PL 1 & 2 movies as proof of anything.
Please read damiens mental history before comparing it to yours or some hobos.
Yes, Miskelleys confessions are weird - I dont dismiss it. I just try to remain neutral because his first confessoin was completely false and it was handled by some of the same idiot cops who dont know how to handle a crime scene. Wasnt there a problem with them questioning him too -- without the parents present/consent?? Several other things he said didnt match up with the timeline of how things happened in the actual murders. He was weird, and a little slow and kinda stupid. I dont know what to think of his confessions, But I do know they werent allowed in the Echols trial -- and the evidence produced for the Echols trial didnt warrant a guilty verdict with the death penalty being the punishment .
I have posted about the lie the misskelly was "mentally challanged" and how they had him appear dumber taking his IQ. His score plunged 13 points before trial. Please look at my post (with court supported docuemnts) on page 6 or 7. He did have his fathers consent for his confession. I don't know where you get your info but I have posted the site with documents please take a look at them if you actually care. Quit asking questions or making comments that are in biased documentaries.
Where was damien during the time of the murder since you have all the answers.
Umm, No, absolutley not. I'll quit citing these when you leave out things that have no bearing on the original trials.
Its not my ONLY source of knowledge to the case btw. You forget that I told you I watched the documentaries with the knowledge that it was biased, but the VIDEO taken of the cops doesnt lie...there is video of the actual crime scene in Paradise Lost. There is video of the cops acting like idiots all over the scene, potentially destroying evidence. This is widely known fact.
I've read most of what you posted. I know Miskelleys 72 IQ test might be misleading. But there's no denying that he wasnt a bright kid.
I only brought up the documentaries about the VIDEO taken of the cops (video taken BY the COPS for that matter -- how the fuck is that biased?? :roll: ), thats it, stop trying to make it look like thats all i've seen, you're making yourself look ignorant.
This is what i've been saying all along too. I honestly dont know if Echols and Baldwin are guilty. But I do know that their original trial was a farce, and I am amazed at how poorly the authorities handled it. I couldnt not vote guilty - and send Echols to his death -- on the evidence presented.
What evidence was destroyed?
-The bodies were searched for. May 6th
-All items found during that search: shirts, pants, sneakers, shirts, jeans, wallet, etc were searched for and found on May 6th.
-The ditch was sandbagged and photographed/filmed on May 6th. The sandbagging was done to SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE.
-The area was taped off May 6th.
Detective Allen testimony regarding May 6th:
Q: Alright. What was done in the, in that entire wooded area?
A: There were, there were numerous things done. There was a search made, um, I say inch by inch, there was a search.
Q: How was that conducted when you say it was done "inch by inch?" What does that mean?
A: Well, I - it's quite a large area. We took all the detectives out in that area, uh, we started roughly from the interstate, the patch of woods next to the interstate. We walked it shoulder to shoulder, uh about, we walked within hand's distance. We kinda lined up where we were actually touching each other's hands down a row and we walked into the woods. We walked from the, from one side of the woods to the other side and then we got and kinda made a chain down another section hand to hand and we walked back. We basically...
Q: Did you do that for the entire...
A: The entire wooded section.
From Bryn Ridge's testimony regarding May 6th:
FOGLEMAN: Was anything done to secure the scene?
RIDGE: Yes, we started having people, anybody that was there, of course when I got there, there was Mike Allen and Lt. Hester and Inspector Gitchell was there somewhere but I'm not exactly sure where he was. I was focusing on what was going on in the ditch and myself and Mike Allen actually went into the ditch.
FOGLEMAN: Okay well, what did you do to secure the scene at that point?
RIDGE: Uh tape, this crime scene tape was put out, a path was secured coming from outside of the woods into the crime scene so that we could come in in a unique ways in order that if there was evidence there that we had missed then we would not have destroyed that on the original paths.
<snip>
FOGLEMAN: Okay when you say you were searching the bottom of the ditch what do you mean?
RIDGE: Okay. Obviously you can't see into this muddy water, so, the best way to describe it is I actually do it from the water level, I was raking my hands from one bank of the water to where it came out on the other side along the bottom all the way.
<snip>
RIDGE: Yes, I did. I'm the one that actually stayed in that ditch the entire time and from start to finish until all of the bodies were found, to as far as I could go in that ditch and reach the bottom that's the way I searched it.
FOGLEMAN: About how many feet would you say that you went in that manner?
RIDGE: Probably about 45 feet.
<snip>
Ridge:......we were searching for anything that may have been missed during the initial search going through there and we pumped all of the water out. This is a suction hose where we were pumping the water out of the stream.
FOGLEMAN: Alright, let me ask you a question about that one while you've got it. You say you pumped all the water out?
RIDGE: All that we could get out of it.
FOGLEMAN: Alright, and then after you pumped all of the water out what did you do in looking for evidence?
RIDGE: Again we visually searched for everything. We got a metal detector. We searched everything that was there trying to find anything that may have been a piece of evidence
So again, What evidence was destroyed?
Same with Ms. Dixie Chick.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Never once did they EVER bring up Damiens mental history...
Never once did they actually bring up the court transcripts...
Never once did they bring up Jesse confessing with a lawyer present....
All they said was "These were 3 kids who listened to heavy metal and dressed different"
Which is nothing but PURE HORSESHIT!!!!!
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
There has been widespread criticism of how the police handled the crime scene. Misskelley's former attorney Dan Stidham cites multiple substantial police errors at the crime scene, characterizing it as "literally trampled, especially the creek bed. The bodies, he said, had been removed from the water before the coroner arrived to examine the scene and determine the state of rigor mortis, allowing the bodies to decay on the creek bank, and to be exposed to sunlight and insects. The police did not telephone the coroner until almost two hours after the discovery of the floating shoe, resulting in a late appearance by the coroner. Officials failed to drain the creek in a timely manner and secure possible evidence in the water (the creek was sandbagged after the bodies were pulled from the water). Stidham calls the coroner's investigation "extremely substandard." There was a small amount of blood found at the scene that was never tested.
Also:
According to Mara Leveritt, investigative journalist and author of Devil's Knot, "Police records were a mess. To call them disorderly would be putting it mildly." Leveritt speculated that the small local police force was overwhelmed by the crime, which was unlike any they had ever investigated. Police refused an unsolicited offer of aid and consultation from the violent crimes experts of the Arkansas State Police, and critics suggested this was due to the WMPD being investigated by the Arkansas State Police for suspected theft from the Crittenden County drug task force. Leveritt further noted that some of the physical evidence was stored in paper sacks obtained from a supermarket (with the supermarket's name pre-printed on the bags) rather than in containers of known and controlled origin.
Leveritt also mistakenly presumed that the crime scene video was shot minutes after Detectives Mike Allen and Bryn Ridge recovered two of the bodies, when in fact the camera was not available for almost thirty minutes afterward.
When police speculated about the assailant, the juvenile probation officer assisting at the scene of the murders speculated that Echols was "capable" of committing the murders, stating "it looks like Damien Echols finally killed someone."
One expert in the film Paradise Lost 2: Revelations, stated that human bite marks could have been left on at least one of the victims. However, these potential bite marks were first noticed in photographs years after the trials and were not inspected by a board-certified medical examiner until four years after the murders. The defense's expert testified that the mark in question was not an adult bite mark, while experts put on by the State concluded that there was no bite mark at all. The State's experts had examined the actual bodies for any marks and others conducted expert photo analysis of injuries. Upon further examination, it was concluded that if the marks were bite marks, they did not match the teeth of any of the three convicted.
Like i've said a hundred times, I do not consider Echols, Balwin and Miskelley innocent. This is the most concerning thing to me.. Miskelleys inconsistencies and lies.. but Convicting them and sentencing to death on this shoddy confessoin is inappropraite in my opinion.
i'm guessing all 3 of the contributors to the website blockhead is sourcing has read it all ... and 2 of the 3 think they are innocent ...
But for years Mr. Vedder has pushed this guy in our faces...
For years we have been asked do donate money for Mr. Echols...
Give me a fucking break.
Has Mr. Vedder actually read these medical records?
Has Mr. Vedder actually read the court transcripts?
Or is Mr. Vedder another one who thinks they were convicted because they wore strange clothing and listened to heavy metal?
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Also to your second paragraphy, like I said before you need to quit gettting your infor from those documentaries.
For one, according to the ruler, the "bitemark" is just over an inch in circumference. Who's mouth is that little?
Here's the ruling:
Under this claim, the petitioner attempted to establish a "bite mark" on the face of one of the victims and argued that failure to recognize and develop evidence was incompetence on the part of petitioner's counsel Price and Davidson. Evidence is new only if it was not available at trial and could not have been discovered earlier through the exercise of reasonable diligence, Amrine v. Bowersox, 128 F.3d 1222, 1230 (8th Cir. 1997), cert. denied, 118 S.Ct. 1807 (1998).
The "bite marks" were on the victim's face from the initial discovery of the bodies. Furthermore, the evidence is not reliable. The bulk of the testimony at the evidentiary hearing was that no bite mark could be identified to a reasonable degree of medical certainty.
The testimony of Doctors Peretti, Sturner, and Dugan, and that of Val Price and defendant's investigator, Ron Lax, established that there are not identifiable bite marks on the photographs of the bodies. Dr. Harry Mincer testified that the identification of bite marks is not an exact science. Dr. Mincer, president of the American Board of Forensic Odontology and an expert in the field of forensic odontology also concluded that the mark over the eye brow of Steve Branch was not a bite mark within a degree of reasonable medical certainty.
As you can see, even the bulk of the Defense witnesses failed to identify a human bitemark
Lets just stick to the discussion and not get personal with one another...Is that possible?
Sound good??
Can ya handle that???
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Because I would truly like to know what it is about Damien Echols, that just fascinates the holy hell out of Mr. Vedder.
Because everything I have ever read about Mr. Echols?? Basically disgusts me.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I just dont underastand why you cant accept that the scene was handled poorly. The entire case was handled poorly. Yes, there are many, many biased opinions on this case, but in the end, the way evidence was handled was a joke and the authorities fucked up continuously.
Again, Echols and Miskelley were VERY fucked up kids. No denying that. But what was used at trail was a sham and did not warrant a guilty verdict. If those copes/detectives had done their job better, maybe, just maybe Echols would still be in jail. I dont know why you keep dismissing that. the Shit job the authorities did to implicate Echols is exactly what set him free. You should be bashing these authorities with equal conviction.
It's been entertaining.