BIN LADEN IS DEAD

rick1zoo2

dimitrispearljam wrote:

btw this investigation in the threads about DNA is funny...
for me from the moment that the president of the USA say to the whole world Osama is dead,who the fuck can say or have the power to proove the opposite???

I agree with you, but I do remember a certain president saying that invading Iraq was justified because they had proof of weapons of mass destruction. and we know how that turned out......

Byrnzie

Parksy wrote:

If you can suggest a living person as of two days ago more evil than him.. I'm all ears.

Donald Rumsfeld.

Nitro

Jeanwah wrote:

I don't know. This is what's sketchy...

-The sea burial
-No proof
-No capture
-No Americans injured in this so-called incident
-They torched the compound

I could go on.

I just think it's very important that we QUESTION everything we hear from the U.S. government and not just blindly believe everything we hear.

Sea Burial: - CNN: [Updated 12:22 p.m. ET] Osama bin Laden's body was buried at sea according to Islamic law because no country was willing or able to take his body for burial on land, senior Defense officials said.
"When there is no land alternative, Islamic law dictates that the body be buried within 24 hours, and that was the basis," one official said. "
A second senior Defense official said there was no country willing or able to accept the body for burial, and U.S. forces "took pains to observe Muslim law."

No Proof: Not sure how much more you need

No Capture: They killed him and took his body

No Americans Inujured in this so called incident: SEALS are fucking awesome.
"so called incident"? Something happened in Abbotabad. There are locals, witnesses, etc...here's some info from CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/ ... 8843.shtml

They torched the compound: I think they destroyed the helicopter? They also recovered quite a bit from the compound.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... tml?hpt=T1

I understand questioning things...but at some point you have to believe something

dimitrispearljam

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

btw this investigation in the threads about DNA is funny...
for me from the moment that the president of the USA say to the whole world Osama is dead,who the fuck can say or have the power to proove the opposite???

The president can lie and get caught in a lie. The lie has to be about extra-marital sexual exploits, probably involving Cuban cigars, and it requires a Republican Congress.

Republican Congress? Check.

Obama and Osama going out Tomcat style after Bin Laden's death? It has yet to be reported...

this type of lie???they already do what they have to do before comes obama on air..who can proove that this isnt osama??...this people are proffecionals..

Get_Right

MrAbraham wrote:

Get_Right wrote:

They U.S. does not have a lot of friends in that part of the world and, for the most part, they follow international rules and respect other countries' process. I can only imagine how long it took to get Pakistan to cooperate and ultimately agree to a military operation. Id bet there was some cash involved there.

ummm, I would say (based on facts) the US for the most part does not follow international rules/laws and really does not respect any other country. With perhaps the exception of Israel.

Such as? And I am not talking about individual behaviors/incidents. And there was probably a tipping point here as well. At what point would the U.S. have been justified in going into pakistan without approval?
And I am no expert on these things, but I think they would have got the blessing of most of the world to go in.

dimitrispearljam

rick1zoo2 wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

btw this investigation in the threads about DNA is funny...
for me from the moment that the president of the USA say to the whole world Osama is dead,who the fuck can say or have the power to proove the opposite???

I agree with you, but I do remember a certain president saying that invading Iraq was justified because they had proof of weapons of mass destruction. and we know how that turned out......

i saw the movie with Sean Penn...did anyone say sorry?did the victims of bombing can come back? Americans went to war and die ..?
politicians can bury us Alive before we can spell the first letter of word Alive..

afarid

As a Pakistani I really can't say I can celebrate Osama's death cause to me he is not the problem. The problem is political situation and unrest that have been created in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan over the years of unjust political policies and ignorance. Its is because of such situation and circumstances people like Osama can manipulate the youth to get support. The whole threat of terrorism will be gone if for ONCE the US did the right thing which would be to stay the course and help Afghanistan get on it own two feet and not just leave before the job is done like they did in 1989 in Afghanistan and like they did in 1991 in Iraq.
Countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan expereince wrath of terrorism first hand and they have been for the last 20 plus years. Way Way before 9/11.

Idris

Get_Right wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

Get_Right wrote:

They U.S. does not have a lot of friends in that part of the world and, for the most part, they follow international rules and respect other countries' process. I can only imagine how long it took to get Pakistan to cooperate and ultimately agree to a military operation. Id bet there was some cash involved there.

ummm, I would say (based on facts) the US for the most part does not follow international rules/laws and really does not respect any other country. With perhaps the exception of Israel.

Such as? And I am not talking about individual behaviors/incidents. And there was probably a tipping point here as well. At what point would the U.S. have been justified in going into pakistan without approval?
And I am no expert on these things, but I think they would have got the blessing of most of the world to go in.

How many civilians has the US killed just in Pakistan alone? Many many thousands, probably more than the amount of people who died on 9/11. But in reality, one innocent life is too much.

So based on this alone, could the US ever really be justified in it's actions? We have America, a country breaking law after law, human right violations after another.

I'm curious, when will it be justified for another country to come and invade America? Saving the world from all of her evils? Also keeping in mind that it was American Policy that created Bin Laden.

SVRDhand13

afarid wrote:

As a Pakistani I really can't say I can celebrate Osama's death cause to me he is not the problem. The problem is political situation and unrest that have been created in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan over the years of unjust political policies and ignorance. Its is because of such situation and circumstances people like Osama can manipulate the youth to get support. The whole threat of terrorism will be gone if for ONCE the US did the right thing which would be to stay the course and help Afghanistan get on it own two feet and not just leave before the job is done like they did in 1989 in Afghanistan and like they did in 1991 in Iraq.
Countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan expereince wrath of terrorism first hand and they have been for the last 20 plus years. Way Way before 9/11.

Osama was not the problem? He was a HUGE part of the problem. Without him 9/11 never occurs. His death does not fix everything, but it helps.

Get_Right

MrAbraham wrote:

How many civilians has the US killed just in Pakistan alone? Many many thousands, probably more than the amount of people who died on 9/11. But in reality, one innocent life is too much.

So based on this alone, could the US ever really be justified in it's actions? We have America, a country breaking law after law, human right violations after another.

I'm curious, when will it be justified for another country to come and invade America? Saving the world from all of her evils? Also keeping in mind that it was American Policy that created Bin Laden.

For the sake of argument, I will agree about Pakistan. I don't make the leap that you do in saying "could the US ever really be justified in it's actions?" That alone does not render my statement "for the most part" inaccurate.
While far from perfect, the US is not the evil empire you describe. Many of the human rights violations you speak of are the result of individual behavior. What would be the basis for an invasion? If I knew the reason then I could comment. Would Iraq have a good reason for doing so after we invaded their country? Perhaps.

I do not mean in any way shape or form to belittle the loss of life. The middle east and western Asia very complicated political and religious issues. Navigating those waters in a way that makes everyone happy is an impossible task.

Jason P

MrAbraham wrote:

How many civilians has the US killed just in Pakistan alone? Many many thousands, probably more than the amount of people who died on 9/11. But in reality, one innocent life is too much.

So based on this alone, could the US ever really be justified in it's actions? We have America, a country breaking law after law, human right violations after another.

I'm curious, when will it be justified for another country to come and invade America? Saving the world from all of her evils? Also keeping in mind that it was American Policy that created Bin Laden.

If elements of Pakistan's military and intelligence agencies didn't allow Taliban and Al-Qaida forces to operate within their borders, civilian deaths could have been avoided ... hell, maybe the Afghanistan war would be over by now. Instead, a war is being fought where the leaders of the opposition are given safe harbor by an alleged ally.

Idris

Get_Right wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

How many civilians has the US killed just in Pakistan alone? Many many thousands, probably more than the amount of people who died on 9/11. But in reality, one innocent life is too much.

So based on this alone, could the US ever really be justified in it's actions? We have America, a country breaking law after law, human right violations after another.

I'm curious, when will it be justified for another country to come and invade America? Saving the world from all of her evils? Also keeping in mind that it was American Policy that created Bin Laden.

For the sake of argument, I will agree about Pakistan. I don't make the leap that you do in saying "could the US ever really be justified in it's actions?" That alone does not render my statement "for the most part" inaccurate.
While far from perfect, the US is not the evil empire you describe. Many of the human rights violations you speak of are the result of individual behavior. What would be the basis for an invasion? If I knew the reason then I could comment. Would Iraq have a good reason for doing so after we invaded their country? Perhaps.

I do not mean in any way shape or form to belittle the loss of life. The middle east and western Asia very complicated political and religious issues. Navigating those waters in a way that makes everyone happy is an impossible task.

I don't think it's an impossible task. Not when we understand that just about everyone wants the same thing in the end. To be happy, free and live.

American policy does not allow that to. The whole system is designed for America to be on top and everyone under it. How is that not an evil empire, Add to the constant expansions and base buildings.

I was not speaking about individual behavior, rather government/system behavior. Again read the stories, look at the stats.

American policy supports other corrupt governments and regimes.

So let's see, we have a country (America), that invades other countries going against international law, a country that detains people without trial (Gitmo and other 'secret' prisons) , a country that supports other corrupt governments (Israel, Saudis)

Sounds like an evil empire to me.

afarid

Why would Pakistan Army give shelter to Al-Qaieda and Osama when it is them who have been bombing and killing innocent Pakistanis for over 20 years. More Pakistani soldiers have died fighting this war on terror. Pakistan has been the biggest victim of terrorism and more Pakistani Soldiers have died in this war of terror. NEVER FORGET THAT!!!!!!!
So to blame to Pakistan is just naive and pretty stupid
Like I said before Osamas death does not do anything to stop terror. You in America might think it does but then again you live in a Bubble. You have no idea what your politician and businessmen go around doing in the world. And unless the American international policy changes, acts of terror will keep on happening and new Osamas will be get born in every generation.

Go Beavers

Get_Right wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

How many civilians has the US killed just in Pakistan alone? Many many thousands, probably more than the amount of people who died on 9/11. But in reality, one innocent life is too much.

So based on this alone, could the US ever really be justified in it's actions? We have America, a country breaking law after law, human right violations after another.

I'm curious, when will it be justified for another country to come and invade America? Saving the world from all of her evils? Also keeping in mind that it was American Policy that created Bin Laden.

For the sake of argument, I will agree about Pakistan. I don't make the leap that you do in saying "could the US ever really be justified in it's actions?" That alone does not render my statement "for the most part" inaccurate.
While far from perfect, the US is not the evil empire you describe. Many of the human rights violations you speak of are the result of individual behavior. What would be the basis for an invasion? If I knew the reason then I could comment. Would Iraq have a good reason for doing so after we invaded their country? Perhaps.

I do not mean in any way shape or form to belittle the loss of life. The middle east and western Asia very complicated political and religious issues. Navigating those waters in a way that makes everyone happy is an impossible task.

U.S.torture is a good example of human rights violations. That wasn't rogue individuals, but instead got the green light from the top.

JonnyPistachio

afarid wrote:

Why would Pakistan Army give shelter to Al-Qaieda and Osama when it is them who have been bombing and killing innocent Pakistanis for over 20 years. More Pakistani soldiers have died fighting this war on terror. Pakistan has been the biggest victim of terrorism and more Pakistani Soldiers have died in this war of terror. NEVER FORGET THAT!!!!!!!
So to blame to Pakistan is just naive and pretty stupid
Like I said before Osamas death does not do anything to stop terror. You in America might think it does but then again you live in a Bubble. You have no idea what your politician and businessmen go around doing in the world. And unless the American international policy changes, acts of terror will keep on happening and new Osamas will be get born in every generation.

So is it confirmed that bin laden did not have any control or input in al quada anymore?
I agree that it might not do much (killing bin laden), but one of the questions I asked earlier either got buried or maybe nobody knows the answer -- What happens/happened to bin ladens fortunes? were they locked out years ago (i'm not sure)..were they passed on to his family?
I always figured he was a successful terrorist because of his inheritance and connections. I agree new osamas will be born into every generation (especially if these guys are having 50 fucking kids!), but will they have the same resources??

Idris

Jason P wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

How many civilians has the US killed just in Pakistan alone? Many many thousands, probably more than the amount of people who died on 9/11. But in reality, one innocent life is too much.

So based on this alone, could the US ever really be justified in it's actions? We have America, a country breaking law after law, human right violations after another.

I'm curious, when will it be justified for another country to come and invade America? Saving the world from all of her evils? Also keeping in mind that it was American Policy that created Bin Laden.

If elements of Pakistan's military and intelligence agencies didn't allow Taliban and Al-Qaida forces to operate within their borders, civilian deaths could have been avoided ... hell, maybe the Afghanistan war would be over by now. Instead, a war is being fought where the leaders of the opposition are given safe harbor by an alleged ally.

The war in Afghanistan is more than just about 'Terror',

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world ... erals.html

Nothingman54

Nitro

afarid wrote:

Why would Pakistan Army give shelter to Al-Qaieda and Osama when it is them who have been bombing and killing innocent Pakistanis for over 20 years. More Pakistani soldiers have died fighting this war on terror. Pakistan has been the biggest victim of terrorism and more Pakistani Soldiers have died in this war of terror. NEVER FORGET THAT!!!!!!!
So to blame to Pakistan is just naive and pretty stupid
Like I said before Osamas death does not do anything to stop terror. You in America might think it does but then again you live in a Bubble. You have no idea what your politician and businessmen go around doing in the world. And unless the American international policy changes, acts of terror will keep on happening and new Osamas will be get born in every generation.

For Bin Laden to hide out in Pakistan in such close proximity to the capital and home of Pakistan's military- as he was for over a year- it is likely he had some type of support system. Whether the Pakistani government or official Pakistani institutions had a role is speculation. So "blaming" Pakistan wouldn't be the right term...but figuring out as to why he was there protected is a legitiamate question.

redrock

SVRDhand13 wrote:

Osama was not the problem? He was a HUGE part of the problem. Without him 9/11 never occurs.

I think that's where you are wrong....

Jason P

MrAbraham wrote:

The war in Afghanistan is more than just about 'Terror',

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world ... erals.html

The supposed fortune in minerals is a pipe dream. No one is going to devote the resources necessary or invest the money that is required to tap into those resources, especially considering how volatile the area is (and will be for quite some time).