Jack Layton's almost 61, if the conservatives get a majority that would make him almost 65 when the next election rolls around...he might stick around if the numbers translate into a big seat gain...if it does not, would the NDP not want to start the transition to new leadership over the next 4 years?
Since their seems to only be a handful of us who view and post on this thread I doubt we have enough votes to turn tide .
i think chretien was about that age when he took power and he was around for a while ... the thing is - it's not easy finding leaders ... the only other good one is duceppe ... the ndp surge is due to layton's performance on the debates and his public perception ... he consistently ranks as the most trustworthy leader by a landslide over all the other leaders ...
Jack Layton's almost 61, if the conservatives get a majority that would make him almost 65 when the next election rolls around...he might stick around if the numbers translate into a big seat gain...if it does not, would the NDP not want to start the transition to new leadership over the next 4 years?
Since their seems to only be a handful of us who view and post on this thread I doubt we have enough votes to turn tide .
i think chretien was about that age when he took power and he was around for a while ... the thing is - it's not easy finding leaders ... the only other good one is duceppe ... the ndp surge is due to layton's performance on the debates and his public perception ... he consistently ranks as the most trustworthy leader by a landslide over all the other leaders ...
true...so do you figure if there is a seat gain has he grown the NDP about as far as it can go? I was just figuring that maybe Layton would step down hoping the next person could take them to official opposition status...who knows maybe they'll achieve that this time around.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
true...so do you figure if there is a seat gain has he grown the NDP about as far as it can go? I was just figuring that maybe Layton would step down hoping the next person could take them to official opposition status...who knows maybe they'll achieve that this time around.
tough to say ... honestly, if i had to put money down ... i would say 50 seats was the max for the ndp in this country but the reality is that apparently, the ndp were like 1st or 2nd in 100 ridings in the last election ... if people on the left/centre continue to abandon the liberal party ... the sky is the limit for the ndp ... also, the ndp are the only ones with a seat in Alberta and they are making headway in a province that was foreign to them ...
their major hurdle is ontario ... where people still have disproportionate resentment towards them ...
true...so do you figure if there is a seat gain has he grown the NDP about as far as it can go? I was just figuring that maybe Layton would step down hoping the next person could take them to official opposition status...who knows maybe they'll achieve that this time around.
tough to say ... honestly, if i had to put money down ... i would say 50 seats was the max for the ndp in this country but the reality is that apparently, the ndp were like 1st or 2nd in 100 ridings in the last election ... if people on the left/centre continue to abandon the liberal party ... the sky is the limit for the ndp ... also, the ndp are the only ones with a seat in Alberta and they are making headway in a province that was foreign to them ...
their major hurdle is ontario ... where people still have disproportionate resentment towards them ...
Then it's possible with a slight shift they could replace the liberals as the centre left party...mmmm...interesting.
You have think the liberals are bleeding support to right and to the left.
Well at least Jack Layton shows up for votes and actually will oppose the government...like what the opposition is suppose to do...maybe where witness a slow death of the liberal and birth of a more centrist/left ndp...what do you think?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
true...so do you figure if there is a seat gain has he grown the NDP about as far as it can go? I was just figuring that maybe Layton would step down hoping the next person could take them to official opposition status...who knows maybe they'll achieve that this time around.
tough to say ... honestly, if i had to put money down ... i would say 50 seats was the max for the ndp in this country but the reality is that apparently, the ndp were like 1st or 2nd in 100 ridings in the last election ... if people on the left/centre continue to abandon the liberal party ... the sky is the limit for the ndp ... also, the ndp are the only ones with a seat in Alberta and they are making headway in a province that was foreign to them ...
their major hurdle is ontario ... where people still have disproportionate resentment towards them ...
Then it's possible with a slight shift they could replace the liberals as the centre left party...mmmm...interesting.
You have think the liberals are bleeding support to right and to the left.
Well at least Jack Layton shows up for votes and actually will oppose the government...like what the opposition is suppose to do...maybe where witness a slow death of the liberal and birth of a more centrist/left ndp...what do you think?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think it's fairly accurate...the questions used to place a person or party on the graph are pretty insightful...
When I think of this chart, and keep hearing people talk of the libs being left-centrist...I have to chuckle a bit. I agree with the site's assertion that there is little difference, esp economically, between the Cons and the Libs...The NDP have toned down their leftist tendencies a bit over the years, but they are still closest to centrist of any of the parties. The Libs and Cons are both right wing parties IMO. 'Liberal', as it applies to Iggy's party, is a misnomer. To me, having the two major parties has influenced Canadians into a bit of a right facade....we have knee-jerk negative reactions to anything to do with socialism or taxation.......but if you pose the questions on that site to most Canadians, I think they would place significantly further left on the compass than the Cons OR the Libs...
I think it's fairly accurate...the questions used to place a person or party on the graph are pretty insightful...
When I think of this chart, and keep hearing people talk of the libs being left-centrist...I have to chuckle a bit. I agree with the site's assertion that there is little difference, esp economically, between the Cons and the Libs...The NDP have toned down their leftist tendencies a bit over the years, but they are still closest to centrist of any of the parties. The Libs and Cons are both right wing parties IMO. 'Liberal', as it applies to Iggy's party, is a misnomer. To me, having the two major parties has influenced Canadians into a bit of a right facade....we have knee-jerk negative reactions to anything to do with socialism or taxation.......but if you pose the questions on that site to most Canadians, I think they would place significantly further left on the compass than the Cons OR the Libs...
Yes, I've been to the website. I think as a whole we're better off as centrist nation...but for sure we're left or socialist in certain areas...the big one, health care...we beed to improve in certain areas of course but sometimes it seems we are heading the wrong way, like the American Way, I'd rather have a kinder gentler country one who cares for all her citizens no matter who you are.
That's the disappointing thing about the last 5 years...Harper accomplished FUCK ALL...he has lead 2 of the most impotent minority governments ever...in a minority government good things should happen...not the SHIT thats been happening the last 5 years.
I also lay blame to the problems at Ignatieff's feet...show up and vote...if it brings down the government so be it...Ignatieff was waiting for his poll numbers to imorove, imo...keeping waiting you might be sinking the liberal boat.
I can see how Harper might not be able to work with Ignatieff...but Layton no...Layton seems like a true parliamentarian, someone who can argue with until your blue in the face in the house of commons then go out and have a beer afterwards...Ignatieff and Harper are too arrogant and stuborn.
With that being said if Harper gets a majority it will be bad for us. My preference is a minority...form a coalition with Layton leading the coalition with centrist members from the liberals and conservatives (I'm sure they have some, Layton knows who they are).
If Harper gets a majority we'll head even further in the direction of the US, imo.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Then it's possible with a slight shift they could replace the liberals as the centre left party...mmmm...interesting.
You have think the liberals are bleeding support to right and to the left.
Well at least Jack Layton shows up for votes and actually will oppose the government...like what the opposition is suppose to do...maybe where witness a slow death of the liberal and birth of a more centrist/left ndp...what do you think?
i think they were never really so far left ... but i think the perception of them being more centrist started when they absolved long standing relationships with many unions in the previous election ...
also, the reality is that they are the only real alternative for many voters ... if you live outside of quebec and you see the damage harper has done and you see the same old narcissistic behaviour from the liberals - it only leaves the ndp ...
like i've been saying ... for the most part - as long as parties are somewhat close to the centre ... most canadians are fine with whatever policy but they do expect integrity and transparency ... something both the cons and libs lack ... so, really ... assuming layton doesn't raise the GST to 30% ... he's the only alternative for many ...
Then it's possible with a slight shift they could replace the liberals as the centre left party...mmmm...interesting.
You have think the liberals are bleeding support to right and to the left.
Well at least Jack Layton shows up for votes and actually will oppose the government...like what the opposition is suppose to do...maybe where witness a slow death of the liberal and birth of a more centrist/left ndp...what do you think?
i think they were never really so far left ... but i think the perception of them being more centrist started when they absolved long standing relationships with many unions in the previous election ...
also, the reality is that they are the only real alternative for many voters ... if you live outside of quebec and you see the damage harper has done and you see the same old narcissistic behaviour from the liberals - it only leaves the ndp ...
like i've been saying ... for the most part - as long as parties are somewhat close to the centre ... most canadians are fine with whatever policy but they do expect integrity and transparency ... something both the cons and libs lack ... so, really ... assuming layton doesn't raise the GST to 30% ... he's the only alternative for many ...
I agree...I never thought I would think an NDP leader was best choice to lead the country, I do now. Great call on the union. I belong to a union...can't stand them...unions for me leach off the productivity of others. I had forgotten that the NDP aren't associated with union as much anymore.
I hope what the polls are saying is correct for the NDP...but not for the Conservatives.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I agree...I never thought I would think an NDP leader was best choice to lead the country, I do now. Great call on the union. I belong to a union...can't stand them...unions for me leach off the productivity of others. I had forgotten that the NDP aren't associated with union as much anymore.
I hope what the polls are saying is correct for the NDP...but not for the Conservatives.
having said all that ... i'm off to cast my ballot tonite for the green party ...
I agree...I never thought I would think an NDP leader was best choice to lead the country, I do now. Great call on the union. I belong to a union...can't stand them...unions for me leach off the productivity of others. I had forgotten that the NDP aren't associated with union as much anymore.
I hope what the polls are saying is correct for the NDP...but not for the Conservatives.
having said all that ... i'm off to cast my ballot tonite for the green party ...
but you're in Layton's riding...he's a safe bet to get in anyways, just as the NDP are a lock here.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
astonishing to say the least ... i had to line up at my advance poll yesterday ... i'm hoping it was a sign of things to come in terms of turnout ... i think the attack ads by conservatives and liberals are actually backfiring on them ... it shows they are scared ...
Can polls really be trusted? I'm skeptical about the 1 released yesterday...I just don't see the bloc being reduced to 14 seats in Quebec...I hope they are...but remain skeptical.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It has been years since I chimed into a Canadian politics thread but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.
Did the advance voting yesterday and was amazed how busy it was, BUT here in Calgary it would not matter who I voted for as it it will be a Tory land-slide sweep. I get disappointed with a lot of people here in Calgary because most just vote Conservative without really thinking about it. Everyone has such a grudge with the NEP that they cannot vote for anyone but Conservative.
Disappointing really because even the Conservative incumbents do not even do much to fight for re-election since it is such a given. Hell Kenny has not even been in Calgary and I will guarantee he will be re-elected in a land-slide victory in his riding. It amazes me how people here still will give a free vote to these incumbents who do not even campaign because it is a given. I also believe the Conservatives have not really done any favours out here for Albertans in general. Going against there word on trust companies being one of them that affected a lot of business in Calgary (especially in the O&G sector), but regardless people here still habour old feelings in regards to the NEP.
I wonder how Harper will govern if he gets the majority that most outlets are now predicting, especially with the NDP/Liberals splitting the leftist vote. I am pretty confident he will not touch women's rights (AKA abortion issues, gay marriage, or health care) because if he does the Conservatives in four years will get decimiated and everything they done over-turned.
There are some nut-ball back benchers but I believe a lot of people really go over-board with the fear mongering about they will lead us to extreme right wing American style idealogical thought. I would say 9/10 Conservatives I know are Pro-Choice/Pro-Health Care/Pro Gay Marrage they just have a different outlook when it comes to the economy. I find as Canadians we do a great job of keeping the chruch out of the state, the way it should be.
The issue that I have is that I believe Harper in his proposed tough on crime bill (which I hope greatly expands punishment on murder/child abuse/pedophiles/etc) does not take a hard line stance on soft drugs (talking marijuana here) like the American philosophy because THAT will be a waste of tax payer dollars.
Some people in this country need to realize that the Conservatives are not all Reform/Alliance members most are pretty socially centrist. Remeber Harper used to be a Liberal card carrying member for some years.
We can all find sound bytes which demonizes someone or in this case a candidate. But let's keep the fear mongering out of it.
I am not pro Harper by any means but I do kind of chuckle at the fear mongering thrown his way, even in a majority he cannot run a "Reform" party social platform and expect to get re-elected in four years, seriously he is smarter than that and knows most Canadians do not go that way.
Also to pro Harper supporters remember Paul Martin saved this economy more than Harper has helped it, he stopped the de-regualtions of the banking system here in Canada and is now looked as a genious for keeping it regulatetd. We could have easily been like the USA if he opted for de-regulation. Just had to add that in when people say Harper saved Canada, he has aided in the process but the foundation was buitl well ahead of the 2008 recession.
Sorry for the ramble have not posted in here for year...ha-ha.
It has been years since I chimed into a Canadian politics thread but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.
Did the advance voting yesterday and was amazed how busy it was, BUT here in Calgary it would not matter who I voted for as it it will be a Tory land-slide sweep. I get disappointed with a lot of people here in Calgary because most just vote Conservative without really thinking about it. Everyone has such a grudge with the NEP that they cannot vote for anyone but Conservative.
Disappointing really because even the Conservative incumbents do not even do much to fight for re-election since it is such a given. Hell Kenny has not even been in Calgary and I will guarantee he will be re-elected in a land-slide victory in his riding. It amazes me how people here still will give a free vote to these incumbents who do not even campaign because it is a given. I also believe the Conservatives have not really done any favours out here for Albertans in general. Going against there word on trust companies being one of them that affected a lot of business in Calgary (especially in the O&G sector), but regardless people here still habour old feelings in regards to the NEP.
I wonder how Harper will govern if he gets the majority that most outlets are now predicting, especially with the NDP/Liberals splitting the leftist vote. I am pretty confident he will not touch women's rights (AKA abortion issues, gay marriage, or health care) because if he does the Conservatives in four years will get decimiated and everything they done over-turned.
There are some nut-ball back benchers but I believe a lot of people really go over-board with the fear mongering about they will lead us to extreme right wing American style idealogical thought. I would say 9/10 Conservatives I know are Pro-Choice/Pro-Health Care/Pro Gay Marrage they just have a different outlook when it comes to the economy. I find as Canadians we do a great job of keeping the chruch out of the state, the way it should be.
The issue that I have is that I believe Harper in his proposed tough on crime bill (which I hope greatly expands punishment on murder/child abuse/pedophiles/etc) does not take a hard line stance on soft drugs (talking marijuana here) like the American philosophy because THAT will be a waste of tax payer dollars.
Some people in this country need to realize that the Conservatives are not all Reform/Alliance members most are pretty socially centrist. Remeber Harper used to be a Liberal card carrying member for some years.
We can all find sound bytes which demonizes someone or in this case a candidate. But let's keep the fear mongering out of it.
I am not pro Harper by any means but I do kind of chuckle at the fear mongering thrown his way, even in a majority he cannot run a "Reform" party social platform and expect to get re-elected in four years, seriously he is smarter than that and knows most Canadians do not go that way.
Also to pro Harper supporters remember Paul Martin saved this economy more than Harper has helped it, he stopped the de-regualtions of the banking system here in Canada and is now looked as a genious for keeping it regulatetd. We could have easily been like the USA if he opted for de-regulation. Just had to add that in when people say Harper saved Canada, he has aided in the process but the foundation was buitl well ahead of the 2008 recession.
Sorry for the ramble have not posted in here for year...ha-ha.
Sounds like if you want a job for life run as a conservative in Calgary...are they going to get back the seat they lost in Edmonton?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
A cardboard box with a Conservative sticker on it would get elected here in this city. I am not trying to make Calgary Conservative voters sound naive, most are not. Just what pisses me off is that no one even cares that they will not even campaign in this city I find that offensive as a voter.
From what I read the NDP will keep their seat in Edmonton as it is a strong-hold for whatever reason. Edmonton is a more centrist/left leaning city than Calgary in a number of ways.
A cardboard box with a Conservative sticker on it would get elected here in this city. I am not trying to make Calgary Conservative voters sound naive, most are not. Just what pisses me off is that no one even cares that they will not even campaign in this city I find that offensive as a voter.
From what I read the NDP will keep their seat in Edmonton as it is a strong-hold for whatever reason. Edmonton is a more centrist/left leaning city than Calgary in a number of ways.
Should be one of the more interesting election nights we've had in a long time...I kind of have feeling we'll get an idea as to how things are shaping within an hour of the polls closing in Ontario.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
strathcona in edmonton is definitely full of hippies ... i think they take pride in not voting conservative ...
as for the reform/alliance aspect of the conservatives ... there may be some fear mongering but i don't believe it is exaggerated ... the issue related to planned parenthood is an attack on reproductive rights ... they may not open the debate in public but they are doing thing insidiously by cutting funding to these groups ... they are stacking formerly independent boards with people who suit their ideology ... the reason why all questions have to be scripted and most mps are not going to debates is because they can't be trusted to speak their mind ...
i have no doubt that most conservative mps are very right wing ... conservative voters may be more centrist but the party's agenda is very right wing ... i could list a plethora of examples but it's pretty obvious when everything has to go thru the PMO that they have a hidden agenda ...
A cardboard box with a Conservative sticker on it would get elected here in this city. I am not trying to make Calgary Conservative voters sound naive, most are not. Just what pisses me off is that no one even cares that they will not even campaign in this city I find that offensive as a voter.
From what I read the NDP will keep their seat in Edmonton as it is a strong-hold for whatever reason. Edmonton is a more centrist/left leaning city than Calgary in a number of ways.
Should be one of the more interesting election nights we've had in a long time...I kind of have feeling we'll get an idea as to how things are shaping within an hour of the polls closing in Ontario.
I think it will be surprising, I do not put too much into polls because of our recent Mayoral election in Calgary a few months. The eventual winner, Naheed Nenshi, came out of nowhere to win the entire thing by beating a long standing alderman with heavy Conservative ties (who was proclaimed essentially a slam dunker winner months before the election based on Calgarian voting patterns with Conservative idealogies but then again Mayoral votes tend to based much less on that sort of policy). Early polls showed Neshi at 3% of the popular vote, which steadily increased to coming out of bloody nowhere to take the election. Key for him was tapping into social networking and the youth vote. Something I think the NDP has an advantage over the other parties, however, I am not saying they take the election. I honestly would be surprised as hell if they took over as the minority lead but that could be possible based on that one poll.
The NDP (as shown on one poll) is surging but who knows what to make of it, seems though in history strong NDP polling prior to the election does not guarantee significant seats in the house. My theory is a lot of the NDP "supporters" get cold feet and bow into Liberal fear mongering about stragetic voting, patented tactic of the Liberal party. Thing is I feel it will not work this year (or not as much).
Only way this helps Harper is if the split is signifianct enough in centrist/mildly left ridings to allow the Tory candidate to sneak in, time will tell with that one.
As usual we will know the "results" as soon as polls close in Ontario, somethings never change.
Also looking into the NDP in Alberta I guess local polls are showing they are threatening to take 3 additional seats from the Tories in Edmonton. This would be devestating to Harper's majority hopes as those have always been guaranteed Tory seats
strathcona in edmonton is definitely full of hippies ... i think they take pride in not voting conservative ...
as for the reform/alliance aspect of the conservatives ... there may be some fear mongering but i don't believe it is exaggerated ... the issue related to planned parenthood is an attack on reproductive rights ... they may not open the debate in public but they are doing thing insidiously by cutting funding to these groups ... they are stacking formerly independent boards with people who suit their ideology ... the reason why all questions have to be scripted and most mps are not going to debates is because they can't be trusted to speak their mind ...
i have no doubt that most conservative mps are very right wing ... conservative voters may be more centrist but the party's agenda is very right wing ... i could list a plethora of examples but it's pretty obvious when everything has to go thru the PMO that they have a hidden agenda ...
I can see what you are saying but I would not hestiate to believe they would not be ultimately punished in a following election, even by those voting for them on May 2nd.
I think Harper is too smart to go very right wing in a social issue sense. I thought about this a lot the other day and yes we always hear he muzzles certain caucaus members. Maybe he muzzles them because he knows they are more of the ultra right wing and does not want that afecting his image.
Regardless if they are centrist, red blooded Tories, or ultra right wing they still represent a vote for his majority. Most of these crazy MP's (crazy as they differ from our idealogy) are from Alberta/Saskatchewan where these beliefs have stronger merit. Try putting a Rob Anders in metro Toronto and see how well he does.
I think this election is different because the fear mongering from the Liberals is not working and people are sick of the constant elections (how many of them can even comprehend our parliamentry process is another question that would result in disappointing figures...ha-ha) especailly at the cost.
As for fear mongering it has now be unveiled Ignatieff also supported an Iraq invasion, these things go both ways.
I have to ask what are people scared of from Harper, I have stated mine which was the expansion of a Canadian war on soft drugs that would lead to more assinine first time offense convictions and a great waste of tax payers dollars. This spoken from someone who put down the pipe a couple years ago, so I would not be affected but find this potential expansion of the criminal code for petty drug offences absurd.
Do people think he wil ll abolish public health care? Take away gay rights? Etc....
I am just curious of what people think because I think the fear mongering is exagerrated.
I can see what you are saying but I would not hestiate to believe they would not be ultimately punished in a following election, even by those voting for them on May 2nd.
I think Harper is too smart to go very right wing in a social issue sense. I thought about this a lot the other day and yes we always hear he muzzles certain caucaus members. Maybe he muzzles them because he knows they are more of the ultra right wing and does not want that afecting his image.
Regardless if they are centrist, red blooded Tories, or ultra right wing they still represent a vote for his majority. Most of these crazy MP's (crazy as they differ from our idealogy) are from Alberta/Saskatchewan where these beliefs have stronger merit. Try putting a Rob Anders in metro Toronto and see how well he does.
I think this election is different because the fear mongering from the Liberals is not working and people are sick of the constant elections (how many of them can even comprehend our parliamentry process is another question that would result in disappointing figures...ha-ha) especailly at the cost.
As for fear mongering it has now be unveiled Ignatieff also supported an Iraq invasion, these things go both ways.
the conservatives have been caught basically blowing money to their friends and it has not changed their polling numbers ... the 33% of the population that votes conservative will always vote conservative ...
the progressive conservative party is dead ... all those guys have been replaced ... the party is comprised of reform/alliance folks mixed in with old mike harris guys from ontario (right wing) ... they have a right wing agenda and have been frustrated by their inability to exercise their ideology in a minority gov't ... why do you think they've essentially done NOTHING on the environment file? ... even tho that is probably the easiest file to move with the NDP, Libs and Bloc? ... it's because the centrist aspects of the party are gone ...
as for the liberals - they have no credibility anymore ... it's pretty obvious ... people want integrity and honesty ... they don't see that in the liberal party especially with iggy leading this charade ...
I have to ask what are people scared of from Harper, I have stated mine which was the expansion of a Canadian war on soft drugs that would lead to more assinine first time offense convictions and a great waste of tax payers dollars. This spoken from someone who put down the pipe a couple years ago, so I would not be affected but find this potential expansion of the criminal code for petty drug offences absurd.
Do people think he wil ll abolish public health care? Take away gay rights? Etc....
I am just curious of what people think because I think the fear mongering is exagerrated.
well ... you know me ... i'm a socialist and the environment is my main issue ... he not only doesn't do anything for either ... he actually works to hinder environmental progress ...
i also do not like his ideology on foreign policy ... i'd prefer to be a peace-keeping nation that defended human rights throughout the world ... right now, he's adopted a pro-israel fight terrorists bush approach ...
i also believe in transparency and accountability in gov't ... his micromanaging and contempt of parliament and watering down of the accountability act speaks to his manipulative nature ... and his hidden agenda ... mps and the press no longer have access to the pm and his actions ...
i also believe in a one-tier health care system ... the conservatives are obviously pro privatization ...
issues on reproductive rights i have addressed already ...
I can see what you are saying but I would not hestiate to believe they would not be ultimately punished in a following election, even by those voting for them on May 2nd.
I think Harper is too smart to go very right wing in a social issue sense. I thought about this a lot the other day and yes we always hear he muzzles certain caucaus members. Maybe he muzzles them because he knows they are more of the ultra right wing and does not want that afecting his image.
Regardless if they are centrist, red blooded Tories, or ultra right wing they still represent a vote for his majority. Most of these crazy MP's (crazy as they differ from our idealogy) are from Alberta/Saskatchewan where these beliefs have stronger merit. Try putting a Rob Anders in metro Toronto and see how well he does.
I think this election is different because the fear mongering from the Liberals is not working and people are sick of the constant elections (how many of them can even comprehend our parliamentry process is another question that would result in disappointing figures...ha-ha) especailly at the cost.
As for fear mongering it has now be unveiled Ignatieff also supported an Iraq invasion, these things go both ways.
the conservatives have been caught basically blowing money to their friends and it has not changed their polling numbers ... the 33% of the population that votes conservative will always vote conservative ...
the progressive conservative party is dead ... all those guys have been replaced ... the party is comprised of reform/alliance folks mixed in with old mike harris guys from ontario (right wing) ... they have a right wing agenda and have been frustrated by their inability to exercise their ideology in a minority gov't ... why do you think they've essentially done NOTHING on the environment file? ... even tho that is probably the easiest file to move with the NDP, Libs and Bloc? ... it's because the centrist aspects of the party are gone ...
as for the liberals - they have no credibility anymore ... it's pretty obvious ... people want integrity and honesty ... they don't see that in the liberal party especially with iggy leading this charade ...
As for your first point the reason the Liberals are not in power is because of those very same things. I agree with you that there are some shifty things going under their regime, however, the main issue is that the voting public has become so apathetic towards these elections. People now care less about the issues and the Liberals made their bed and are still seeing the effects.
If Ignatieff was not such a blow-hard he would have NOT brought down the government but instead passed a pretty standard budget and allowed for the contempt charges to become more of a media focus. Instead he blew his load to bring down Harper so quick that the return of yet ANOTHER election has over-shadowed those contempt charges. Maybe he, sadly, over-estimated the intelligence of the Canadian voters but honestly he should have waited it out to let the bad news get air. To me a very bad political move.
The problem here is the masses did not get time to digest those charges of contempt and frankly I mentioned seemingly fewer number of people understand our Parliamentry system (which is pathetic).
I am not a Harper supporter but for this election I am looking as objectively as I can possible and I do not agree with all the fear mongering (from both sides).
I have to ask what are people scared of from Harper, I have stated mine which was the expansion of a Canadian war on soft drugs that would lead to more assinine first time offense convictions and a great waste of tax payers dollars. This spoken from someone who put down the pipe a couple years ago, so I would not be affected but find this potential expansion of the criminal code for petty drug offences absurd.
Do people think he wil ll abolish public health care? Take away gay rights? Etc....
I am just curious of what people think because I think the fear mongering is exagerrated.
well ... you know me ... i'm a socialist and the environment is my main issue ... he not only doesn't do anything for either ... he actually works to hinder environmental progress ...
i also do not like his ideology on foreign policy ... i'd prefer to be a peace-keeping nation that defended human rights throughout the world ... right now, he's adopted a pro-israel fight terrorists bush approach ...
i also believe in transparency and accountability in gov't ... his micromanaging and contempt of parliament and watering down of the accountability act speaks to his manipulative nature ... and his hidden agenda ... mps and the press no longer have access to the pm and his actions ...
i also believe in a one-tier health care system ... the conservatives are obviously pro privatization ...
issues on reproductive rights i have addressed already ...
I won't disagree with you but your last issue you mentioned is I said a sound-byte from a no-body baack-bencher I believe maybe from Saskatchewan.
What about the Liberal candidate in Alberta saying punishment for pedolphila is already too strong!!! As I mentioned one cannot paint the entire party because of some nut-ball and his thoughts.
I am all for social health care but where is this pro-privatization talk???? I have not heard anything or read anything that states as of the year 2011 they are talking about privatizing health-care. If you really believe they would do that, then you under-estimate the passion this fine country of ours as for our system (that does need tweaking) because the people would not have it, and you can put your money on that.
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i think chretien was about that age when he took power and he was around for a while ... the thing is - it's not easy finding leaders ... the only other good one is duceppe ... the ndp surge is due to layton's performance on the debates and his public perception ... he consistently ranks as the most trustworthy leader by a landslide over all the other leaders ...
true...so do you figure if there is a seat gain has he grown the NDP about as far as it can go? I was just figuring that maybe Layton would step down hoping the next person could take them to official opposition status...who knows maybe they'll achieve that this time around.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
tough to say ... honestly, if i had to put money down ... i would say 50 seats was the max for the ndp in this country but the reality is that apparently, the ndp were like 1st or 2nd in 100 ridings in the last election ... if people on the left/centre continue to abandon the liberal party ... the sky is the limit for the ndp ... also, the ndp are the only ones with a seat in Alberta and they are making headway in a province that was foreign to them ...
their major hurdle is ontario ... where people still have disproportionate resentment towards them ...
Then it's possible with a slight shift they could replace the liberals as the centre left party...mmmm...interesting.
You have think the liberals are bleeding support to right and to the left.
Well at least Jack Layton shows up for votes and actually will oppose the government...like what the opposition is suppose to do...maybe where witness a slow death of the liberal and birth of a more centrist/left ndp...what do you think?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Then it's possible with a slight shift they could replace the liberals as the centre left party...mmmm...interesting.
You have think the liberals are bleeding support to right and to the left.
Well at least Jack Layton shows up for votes and actually will oppose the government...like what the opposition is suppose to do...maybe where witness a slow death of the liberal and birth of a more centrist/left ndp...what do you think?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://www.politicalcompass.org/canada2011
I think it's fairly accurate...the questions used to place a person or party on the graph are pretty insightful...
When I think of this chart, and keep hearing people talk of the libs being left-centrist...I have to chuckle a bit. I agree with the site's assertion that there is little difference, esp economically, between the Cons and the Libs...The NDP have toned down their leftist tendencies a bit over the years, but they are still closest to centrist of any of the parties. The Libs and Cons are both right wing parties IMO. 'Liberal', as it applies to Iggy's party, is a misnomer. To me, having the two major parties has influenced Canadians into a bit of a right facade....we have knee-jerk negative reactions to anything to do with socialism or taxation.......but if you pose the questions on that site to most Canadians, I think they would place significantly further left on the compass than the Cons OR the Libs...
Yes, I've been to the website. I think as a whole we're better off as centrist nation...but for sure we're left or socialist in certain areas...the big one, health care...we beed to improve in certain areas of course but sometimes it seems we are heading the wrong way, like the American Way, I'd rather have a kinder gentler country one who cares for all her citizens no matter who you are.
That's the disappointing thing about the last 5 years...Harper accomplished FUCK ALL...he has lead 2 of the most impotent minority governments ever...in a minority government good things should happen...not the SHIT thats been happening the last 5 years.
I also lay blame to the problems at Ignatieff's feet...show up and vote...if it brings down the government so be it...Ignatieff was waiting for his poll numbers to imorove, imo...keeping waiting you might be sinking the liberal boat.
I can see how Harper might not be able to work with Ignatieff...but Layton no...Layton seems like a true parliamentarian, someone who can argue with until your blue in the face in the house of commons then go out and have a beer afterwards...Ignatieff and Harper are too arrogant and stuborn.
With that being said if Harper gets a majority it will be bad for us. My preference is a minority...form a coalition with Layton leading the coalition with centrist members from the liberals and conservatives (I'm sure they have some, Layton knows who they are).
If Harper gets a majority we'll head even further in the direction of the US, imo.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i think they were never really so far left ... but i think the perception of them being more centrist started when they absolved long standing relationships with many unions in the previous election ...
also, the reality is that they are the only real alternative for many voters ... if you live outside of quebec and you see the damage harper has done and you see the same old narcissistic behaviour from the liberals - it only leaves the ndp ...
like i've been saying ... for the most part - as long as parties are somewhat close to the centre ... most canadians are fine with whatever policy but they do expect integrity and transparency ... something both the cons and libs lack ... so, really ... assuming layton doesn't raise the GST to 30% ... he's the only alternative for many ...
I agree...I never thought I would think an NDP leader was best choice to lead the country, I do now. Great call on the union. I belong to a union...can't stand them...unions for me leach off the productivity of others. I had forgotten that the NDP aren't associated with union as much anymore.
I hope what the polls are saying is correct for the NDP...but not for the Conservatives.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
having said all that ... i'm off to cast my ballot tonite for the green party ...
Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/decision-can ... z1KZRGAB1b
Does anyone know if they can just abolish the senate without opening the constitution? If they can, then why not?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
but you're in Layton's riding...he's a safe bet to get in anyways, just as the NDP are a lock here.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
yeah ... normally i would say always vote your value system ... however, if i lived in a swing riding ... i would vote strategically ...
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/04/25/ndp-makes-‘astonishing’-move-ahead-of-liberals-poll/
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
astonishing to say the least ... i had to line up at my advance poll yesterday ... i'm hoping it was a sign of things to come in terms of turnout ... i think the attack ads by conservatives and liberals are actually backfiring on them ... it shows they are scared ...
for those who want to vote strategically ... here is a guide ...
http://www.projectdemocracy.ca/canada-r ... p/province
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... heir-meds/
Can polls really be trusted? I'm skeptical about the 1 released yesterday...I just don't see the bloc being reduced to 14 seats in Quebec...I hope they are...but remain skeptical.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Did the advance voting yesterday and was amazed how busy it was, BUT here in Calgary it would not matter who I voted for as it it will be a Tory land-slide sweep. I get disappointed with a lot of people here in Calgary because most just vote Conservative without really thinking about it. Everyone has such a grudge with the NEP that they cannot vote for anyone but Conservative.
Disappointing really because even the Conservative incumbents do not even do much to fight for re-election since it is such a given. Hell Kenny has not even been in Calgary and I will guarantee he will be re-elected in a land-slide victory in his riding. It amazes me how people here still will give a free vote to these incumbents who do not even campaign because it is a given. I also believe the Conservatives have not really done any favours out here for Albertans in general. Going against there word on trust companies being one of them that affected a lot of business in Calgary (especially in the O&G sector), but regardless people here still habour old feelings in regards to the NEP.
I wonder how Harper will govern if he gets the majority that most outlets are now predicting, especially with the NDP/Liberals splitting the leftist vote. I am pretty confident he will not touch women's rights (AKA abortion issues, gay marriage, or health care) because if he does the Conservatives in four years will get decimiated and everything they done over-turned.
There are some nut-ball back benchers but I believe a lot of people really go over-board with the fear mongering about they will lead us to extreme right wing American style idealogical thought. I would say 9/10 Conservatives I know are Pro-Choice/Pro-Health Care/Pro Gay Marrage they just have a different outlook when it comes to the economy. I find as Canadians we do a great job of keeping the chruch out of the state, the way it should be.
The issue that I have is that I believe Harper in his proposed tough on crime bill (which I hope greatly expands punishment on murder/child abuse/pedophiles/etc) does not take a hard line stance on soft drugs (talking marijuana here) like the American philosophy because THAT will be a waste of tax payer dollars.
Some people in this country need to realize that the Conservatives are not all Reform/Alliance members most are pretty socially centrist. Remeber Harper used to be a Liberal card carrying member for some years.
We can all find sound bytes which demonizes someone or in this case a candidate. But let's keep the fear mongering out of it.
I am not pro Harper by any means but I do kind of chuckle at the fear mongering thrown his way, even in a majority he cannot run a "Reform" party social platform and expect to get re-elected in four years, seriously he is smarter than that and knows most Canadians do not go that way.
Also to pro Harper supporters remember Paul Martin saved this economy more than Harper has helped it, he stopped the de-regualtions of the banking system here in Canada and is now looked as a genious for keeping it regulatetd. We could have easily been like the USA if he opted for de-regulation. Just had to add that in when people say Harper saved Canada, he has aided in the process but the foundation was buitl well ahead of the 2008 recession.
Sorry for the ramble have not posted in here for year...ha-ha.
Sounds like if you want a job for life run as a conservative in Calgary...are they going to get back the seat they lost in Edmonton?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
From what I read the NDP will keep their seat in Edmonton as it is a strong-hold for whatever reason. Edmonton is a more centrist/left leaning city than Calgary in a number of ways.
Should be one of the more interesting election nights we've had in a long time...I kind of have feeling we'll get an idea as to how things are shaping within an hour of the polls closing in Ontario.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Sorry that I can't add anything intelligent, but that's great!
as for the reform/alliance aspect of the conservatives ... there may be some fear mongering but i don't believe it is exaggerated ... the issue related to planned parenthood is an attack on reproductive rights ... they may not open the debate in public but they are doing thing insidiously by cutting funding to these groups ... they are stacking formerly independent boards with people who suit their ideology ... the reason why all questions have to be scripted and most mps are not going to debates is because they can't be trusted to speak their mind ...
i have no doubt that most conservative mps are very right wing ... conservative voters may be more centrist but the party's agenda is very right wing ... i could list a plethora of examples but it's pretty obvious when everything has to go thru the PMO that they have a hidden agenda ...
I think it will be surprising, I do not put too much into polls because of our recent Mayoral election in Calgary a few months. The eventual winner, Naheed Nenshi, came out of nowhere to win the entire thing by beating a long standing alderman with heavy Conservative ties (who was proclaimed essentially a slam dunker winner months before the election based on Calgarian voting patterns with Conservative idealogies but then again Mayoral votes tend to based much less on that sort of policy). Early polls showed Neshi at 3% of the popular vote, which steadily increased to coming out of bloody nowhere to take the election. Key for him was tapping into social networking and the youth vote. Something I think the NDP has an advantage over the other parties, however, I am not saying they take the election. I honestly would be surprised as hell if they took over as the minority lead but that could be possible based on that one poll.
The NDP (as shown on one poll) is surging but who knows what to make of it, seems though in history strong NDP polling prior to the election does not guarantee significant seats in the house. My theory is a lot of the NDP "supporters" get cold feet and bow into Liberal fear mongering about stragetic voting, patented tactic of the Liberal party. Thing is I feel it will not work this year (or not as much).
Only way this helps Harper is if the split is signifianct enough in centrist/mildly left ridings to allow the Tory candidate to sneak in, time will tell with that one.
As usual we will know the "results" as soon as polls close in Ontario, somethings never change.
Also looking into the NDP in Alberta I guess local polls are showing they are threatening to take 3 additional seats from the Tories in Edmonton. This would be devestating to Harper's majority hopes as those have always been guaranteed Tory seats
I can see what you are saying but I would not hestiate to believe they would not be ultimately punished in a following election, even by those voting for them on May 2nd.
I think Harper is too smart to go very right wing in a social issue sense. I thought about this a lot the other day and yes we always hear he muzzles certain caucaus members. Maybe he muzzles them because he knows they are more of the ultra right wing and does not want that afecting his image.
Regardless if they are centrist, red blooded Tories, or ultra right wing they still represent a vote for his majority. Most of these crazy MP's (crazy as they differ from our idealogy) are from Alberta/Saskatchewan where these beliefs have stronger merit. Try putting a Rob Anders in metro Toronto and see how well he does.
I think this election is different because the fear mongering from the Liberals is not working and people are sick of the constant elections (how many of them can even comprehend our parliamentry process is another question that would result in disappointing figures...ha-ha) especailly at the cost.
As for fear mongering it has now be unveiled Ignatieff also supported an Iraq invasion, these things go both ways.
Do people think he wil ll abolish public health care? Take away gay rights? Etc....
I am just curious of what people think because I think the fear mongering is exagerrated.
the conservatives have been caught basically blowing money to their friends and it has not changed their polling numbers ... the 33% of the population that votes conservative will always vote conservative ...
the progressive conservative party is dead ... all those guys have been replaced ... the party is comprised of reform/alliance folks mixed in with old mike harris guys from ontario (right wing) ... they have a right wing agenda and have been frustrated by their inability to exercise their ideology in a minority gov't ... why do you think they've essentially done NOTHING on the environment file? ... even tho that is probably the easiest file to move with the NDP, Libs and Bloc? ... it's because the centrist aspects of the party are gone ...
as for the liberals - they have no credibility anymore ... it's pretty obvious ... people want integrity and honesty ... they don't see that in the liberal party especially with iggy leading this charade ...
well ... you know me ... i'm a socialist and the environment is my main issue ... he not only doesn't do anything for either ... he actually works to hinder environmental progress ...
i also do not like his ideology on foreign policy ... i'd prefer to be a peace-keeping nation that defended human rights throughout the world ... right now, he's adopted a pro-israel fight terrorists bush approach ...
i also believe in transparency and accountability in gov't ... his micromanaging and contempt of parliament and watering down of the accountability act speaks to his manipulative nature ... and his hidden agenda ... mps and the press no longer have access to the pm and his actions ...
i also believe in a one-tier health care system ... the conservatives are obviously pro privatization ...
issues on reproductive rights i have addressed already ...
As for your first point the reason the Liberals are not in power is because of those very same things. I agree with you that there are some shifty things going under their regime, however, the main issue is that the voting public has become so apathetic towards these elections. People now care less about the issues and the Liberals made their bed and are still seeing the effects.
If Ignatieff was not such a blow-hard he would have NOT brought down the government but instead passed a pretty standard budget and allowed for the contempt charges to become more of a media focus. Instead he blew his load to bring down Harper so quick that the return of yet ANOTHER election has over-shadowed those contempt charges. Maybe he, sadly, over-estimated the intelligence of the Canadian voters but honestly he should have waited it out to let the bad news get air. To me a very bad political move.
The problem here is the masses did not get time to digest those charges of contempt and frankly I mentioned seemingly fewer number of people understand our Parliamentry system (which is pathetic).
I am not a Harper supporter but for this election I am looking as objectively as I can possible and I do not agree with all the fear mongering (from both sides).
I won't disagree with you but your last issue you mentioned is I said a sound-byte from a no-body baack-bencher I believe maybe from Saskatchewan.
What about the Liberal candidate in Alberta saying punishment for pedolphila is already too strong!!! As I mentioned one cannot paint the entire party because of some nut-ball and his thoughts.
I am all for social health care but where is this pro-privatization talk???? I have not heard anything or read anything that states as of the year 2011 they are talking about privatizing health-care. If you really believe they would do that, then you under-estimate the passion this fine country of ours as for our system (that does need tweaking) because the people would not have it, and you can put your money on that.
That right there shows you a pathetic state of affairs down south.