1996: Toronto 1998: Barrie 2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal 2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2006: Toronto X2 2009: Toronto 2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton 2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula 2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo 2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit 2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023: Chicago X2 2024: New York X2
And this at the end of a week where the topic of abortion was mentioned? Even though it was just one loony candidate doing the mentioning I thought that that would really hurt them. Very surprising imo.
And this at the end of a week where the topic of abortion was mentioned? Even though it was just one loony candidate doing the mentioning I thought that that would really hurt them. Very surprising imo.
I wonder if under Dion and now Iggy if the Liberals are perceived to be to far to the left so the centrist liberals have moved to the tories. We'll see May 2nd, I'm not so sure it will translate into a huge seat pick up for the NDP, but it might cost Liberals enough votes where that translate into a seat gain for the tories.
I saw the Iggy on CBC and I got the impression from him that he was not going to give Harper a vote of confidence, forcing the Governor General's hand...so I wonder if that'll push the tories over the top. I thought it was pretty clear the last time they tried this that the Canadian people were not interested...I'm interested in a coalition lead by Layton that includes members of the 3 national federalist parties and no support from the bloc...Quebec gets more than enough already, next thing you know we'll be building them a rink for a NHL team that is know where even close to coming.
As for that abortion comment, I doubt that'll make any difference. I still can't understand the liberals, they needed to focus on what they were going to do to make things better, I think they focused to much on the corruption of the tories and isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I wonder if under Dion and now Iggy if the Liberals are perceived to be to far to the left so the centrist liberals have moved to the tories. We'll see May 2nd, I'm not so sure it will translate into a huge seat pick up for the NDP, but it might cost Liberals enough votes where that translate into a seat gain for the tories.
I saw the Iggy on CBC and I got the impression from him that he was not going to give Harper a vote of confidence, forcing the Governor General's hand...so I wonder if that'll push the tories over the top.
Do you mean in terms of the electorate or how Harper's campaign will react to it between now and the 2nd? Interesting assessment of the centrist Liberals. Personally I think that they look a little more centrist under Ignatieff than Dion, but I'm not sure how I would really argue that point. My s/o (who isn't a citizen but is a political junkie) figures that the Liberals shot themselves in the foot when their last leadership race lasted a year or so, and people tuned them right out.
I thought it was pretty clear the last time they tried this that the Canadian people were not interested...I'm interested in a coalition lead by Layton that includes members of the 3 national federalist parties and no support from the bloc...Quebec gets more than enough already, next thing you know we'll be building them a rink for a NHL team that is know where even close to coming.
As for that abortion comment, I doubt that'll make any difference. I still can't understand the liberals, they needed to focus on what they were going to do to make things better, I think they focused to much on the corruption of the tories and isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black.
I agree with that completely; don't tell me why I shouldn't vote for Harper, tell me why I should vote for you. If it does end up being a Tory minority then the GG will have an interesting spring/summer. Apparently Johnston is a constitutional expert, and others are already refusing to comment publicly because they might end up involved. I don't see how any coalition can exclude the Bloc and survive though, because there seems little chance that the NDP + Liberals >= 155.
Anyway after vacillating since the writ dropped, I will now commit my vote to anyone who can improve the weather, this is ridiculous even by maritime standards.
I wonder if under Dion and now Iggy if the Liberals are perceived to be to far to the left so the centrist liberals have moved to the tories. We'll see May 2nd, I'm not so sure it will translate into a huge seat pick up for the NDP, but it might cost Liberals enough votes where that translate into a seat gain for the tories.
I saw the Iggy on CBC and I got the impression from him that he was not going to give Harper a vote of confidence, forcing the Governor General's hand...so I wonder if that'll push the tories over the top.
Do you mean in terms of the electorate or how Harper's campaign will react to it between now and the 2nd? Interesting assessment of the centrist Liberals. Personally I think that they look a little more centrist under Ignatieff than Dion, but I'm not sure how I would really argue that point. My s/o (who isn't a citizen but is a political junkie) figures that the Liberals shot themselves in the foot when their last leadership race lasted a year or so, and people tuned them right out.
I thought it was pretty clear the last time they tried this that the Canadian people were not interested...I'm interested in a coalition lead by Layton that includes members of the 3 national federalist parties and no support from the bloc...Quebec gets more than enough already, next thing you know we'll be building them a rink for a NHL team that is know where even close to coming.
As for that abortion comment, I doubt that'll make any difference. I still can't understand the liberals, they needed to focus on what they were going to do to make things better, I think they focused to much on the corruption of the tories and isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black.
I agree with that completely; don't tell me why I shouldn't vote for Harper, tell me why I should vote for you. If it does end up being a Tory minority then the GG will have an interesting spring/summer. Apparently Johnston is a constitutional expert, and others are already refusing to comment publicly because they might end up involved. I don't see how any coalition can exclude the Bloc and survive though, because there seems little chance that the NDP + Liberals >= 155.
Anyway after vacillating since the writ dropped, I will now commit my vote to anyone who can improve the weather, this is ridiculous even by maritime standards.
I really just meant, come May 2nd we'll find out if we have tory majority or minority, I don't see the tories changing strategy now, I think they'll just play it safe. I agree I think there're more centrist except for one policy that puts them at the left cap 'n' trade, I think centrist and people on the right want to know how much this is going to cost them. I would really like to know that...how much is it going to cost. The people I talk to on a daily basis are concerned about jobs, rising gas prices, food prices, taxes etc., I really see the NDP as the only one talking about these issues, which could explain there rise in support, and if someone is going to implement a cap 'n' trade I trust the NDP to do so, so that lower income, working poor and such are not absorbing the brunt of the cost.
That's a great assessment of the liberals...never thought of that as well, and then of course when they selected Iggy he was basically acclaimed...now thats democracy.
I always considered the Liberal almost on the centre of the political spectrum and when Martin was finance minister they might have been a tiny bit to the right fiscally so I think they attracted a lot of red conservatives.
Now they appear to be a party in total confusion as to what they are...and I've read that if Iggy goes then many want to replace him with Bob Rae, so things might not get any better if that happens, but that might be good for the NDP.
Really that's what I think the NDP are doing well, there telling me whats a good about them and why I should vote for them...and their support is rising. The 1 Green commercial was good and informative and at this point they would likely get vote.
Yeah I'm with you on the weather, it's been horrible.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
What I don't understand in all of this...and nobody in the media or anywhere seem to be able to answer.
After being found in contempt of Parliament, LEGALLY how can Stephen Harper be allowed to run in this election??? I would think it would make MORE sense to have a coalition gov't till the Tories choose a new leader THEN we have an election. That's just my opinion. What's happening here shows that contempt of parliament is just another name for non confidence vote. Makes me sick.
If Harper gets his majority...welcome to the first western dictatorship! We'll all be fucked.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
What I don't understand in all of this...and nobody in the media or anywhere seem to be able to answer.
After being found in contempt of Parliament, LEGALLY how can Stephen Harper be allowed to run in this election??? I would think it would make MORE sense to have a coalition gov't till the Tories choose a new leader THEN we have an election. That's just my opinion. What's happening here shows that contempt of parliament is just another name for non confidence vote. Makes me sick.
If Harper gets his majority...welcome to the first western dictatorship! We'll all be fucked.
:roll: :roll:
What's this? EASTERN alienation??
Seriously, decades of Western alienation is exactly why we're in this position. Since the days of the NEP, most Westerners have felt completely disenfranchised by the Libs, and IMO, vote Con because of that. It is not us against them...BC and Sask both have leftist tendencies, and AB votes Con as a protectionist measure (ie: reactionary greed)...Using hyperbole like 'western dictatorship' only increases the rift between regions....
I really just meant, come May 2nd we'll find out if we have tory majority or minority, I don't see the tories changing strategy now, I think they'll just play it safe. I agree I think there're more centrist except for one policy that puts them at the left cap 'n' trade, I think centrist and people on the right want to know how much this is going to cost them. I would really like to know that...how much is it going to cost. The people I talk to on a daily basis are concerned about jobs, rising gas prices, food prices, taxes etc., I really see the NDP as the only one talking about these issues, which could explain there rise in support, and if someone is going to implement a cap 'n' trade I trust the NDP to do so, so that lower income, working poor and such are not absorbing the brunt of the cost.
Won't the companies that they do hit just pass the costs along anyway? I don't really understand the economics of a cap and trade system, but it strikes me as extremely dangerous to hit Canadian companies with that cost if the American's don't. The principle of weaning us off of fossil fuels is fine, but if it costs people jobs is it worth it? Not sure.
That's a great assessment of the liberals...never thought of that as well, and then of course when they selected Iggy he was basically acclaimed...now thats democracy.
I always considered the Liberal almost on the centre of the political spectrum and when Martin was finance minister they might have been a tiny bit to the right fiscally so I think they attracted a lot of red conservatives.
Martin and Flaherty are pretty similar finance ministers, but of course they answer to very different PMs. The Ignatieff coronation was a response to the inertia caused by the prior race, imo.
Now they appear to be a party in total confusion as to what they are...and I've read that if Iggy goes then many want to replace him with Bob Rae, so things might not get any better if that happens, but that might be good for the NDP.
Really that's what I think the NDP are doing well, there telling me whats a good about them and why I should vote for them...and their support is rising. The 1 Green commercial was good and informative and at this point they would likely get vote.
Yeah I'm with you on the weather, it's been horrible.
They have run a good campaign but I've thought that about the NDP before. Out here the Greens aren't even a blip on the radar, they're running a full-slate of course but they get not a mention, even here on campus. Yesterday's G&M suggested that the NDP surge will hand Gary Lund the Saanich seat over Elizabeth May. If that occurs, and no other Green wins a seat, I suspect this might be the end for that party. That's a gut reaction of course, but with no MPs you have no voice when it matters most, which surely is the point of a political party. I hope I'm wrong.
What I don't understand in all of this...and nobody in the media or anywhere seem to be able to answer.
After being found in contempt of Parliament, LEGALLY how can Stephen Harper be allowed to run in this election??? I would think it would make MORE sense to have a coalition gov't till the Tories choose a new leader THEN we have an election. That's just my opinion. What's happening here shows that contempt of parliament is just another name for non confidence vote. Makes me sick.
If Harper gets his majority...welcome to the first western dictatorship! We'll all be fucked.
:roll: :roll:
What's this? EASTERN alienation??
Seriously, decades of Western alienation is exactly why we're in this position. Since the days of the NEP, most Westerners have felt completely disenfranchised by the Libs, and IMO, vote Con because of that. It is not us against them...BC and Sask both have leftist tendencies, and AB votes Con as a protectionist measure (ie: reactionary greed)...Using hyperbole like 'western dictatorship' only increases the rift between regions....
I think Western Dictatorship was meant on a global level. Like we're the first Western country to have a dictator. Hopefully Harper will follow that little law he created that forces the pm to call an election every five years.
I think Western Dictatorship was meant on a global level. Like we're the first Western country to have a dictator. Hopefully Harper will follow that little law he created that forces the pm to call an election every five years.
You could be right, and while that's still pretty hyperbolic, it's not a divisive statement so I wouldn't take such issue with it....guess we'll let ACC make the distinction....I agree that Harper is WAY too authoritarian for our country, and a majority would leave our country in BAD shape....but if it WAS being blamed on Western Canada...that only gets peoples' backs up and starts the regional equivalent of political partisanship...which doesn't help any of us, and only causes people to dig in their heels.
I think you are right companies will just pass it on to us. I really don't know how there going to get us off fossil fuels, this is big country and many people commute long distances to work, so I really don't know...I commute 35 minutes myself, so when fuel is up it effects me...of course 32% of the price tax.
As far as I'm concerned, you have the right to vote, but that's where democracy ends in this country...they get elected on lies, do as they want for 4 years, lie some more hope they get re-elected or we elect some other bullshitter. No politician ever seriously consults with his/her constituents once elected...we're all suckers...if no one showed up May 2nd, then that would give the stupid ass bullshitters something to thing about.
As for me the least corrupt seems the green party, but the ndp is a lock here, so it doesn't matter if people really vote or not.
I'm pretty sure if the green party or ndp ever formed government, corruption would be there...power seems to corrupt.
I think you might be right...if the green gets 0 seats the party will have trouble surviving, the question is, if the tories get a majority and eliminate party subsidies, can they survive?
I was 1 of those who didn't think the tories would get a majority, but I now see it as a real possibility, or at the very least a even stronger minority that might get some right leaning liberals to cross the floor...it will be interesting May 2nd...I will be glad when it is over, then of course we have our provincial election coming up in October, so it'll be like listening to the best bullshitters for 9 months..hehehehehehe.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
“If any of you are tempted to vote for the other party, take a look at the costing table at the back of the NDP program,” he added. “They got $30 billion of spending. . . . Don’t go there folks. This is not wise.”
Ignatieff told his supporters the NDP doesn’t have the experience required to form government or the capacity to unseat Conservative leader Stephen Harper from power.
“We have a big choice,” the Liberal leader said. “This is no time for amateur hour here. We could have NDP amateur hour or we can have competent responsible government.” -Ignatieff
This is my favourite 3 paragraphs. Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought Layton has a lot of experience in local government in Toronto? How much experience do you have Ignatieff? The NDP must be a real threat to the Liberals...I'll bet Ignatieff never saw that coming...heheheheheh.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think Western Dictatorship was meant on a global level. Like we're the first Western country to have a dictator. Hopefully Harper will follow that little law he created that forces the pm to call an election every five years.
You could be right, and while that's still pretty hyperbolic, it's not a divisive statement so I wouldn't take such issue with it....guess we'll let ACC make the distinction....I agree that Harper is WAY too authoritarian for our country, and a majority would leave our country in BAD shape....but if it WAS being blamed on Western Canada...that only gets peoples' backs up and starts the regional equivalent of political partisanship...which doesn't help any of us, and only causes people to dig in their heels.
tvismyfriend is correct. When I said Western Dictatorship I was speaking globally not nationally. Yes it may be a bit of an exaggeration at this point but the way Harper acts and speaks sometimes makes me fear that he will be just like a dictator. He ran on a platform of transparency last time and has done the exact polar opposite since coming into power. He talked about having an elected Senate but has stacked the Senate with Reformers err Tories so that nothing from the house of commons can get through unless THEY support it. I could go on and on.
As far as the Green Party goes, they didn't get any seats in the last election and they still exist. If they don't get any in this election Elizabeth May will prob have to step down as leader. I think the party MAY survive, but we'll see.
Iggy can't ignore the NDP now!! LMAO!! Love it!
I'm torn about who to vote for because my riding is a pretty safe Liberal seat. My heart is with the NDP BUT the NDP candidate in my riding has done NOTHING...no leaflets, no calls, NOTHING. The only candidate in my riding that seems to really want my vote is the liberal, who is also the incumbant. the CON guy did one flyer mailing but thats it. (and I ripped it up). At the end of the day I dunno if I wanna vote for a guy who doesn't seem to care about the job he's asking us to give him. (and it is a him...I looked it up)
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
bytterman...
As far as I'm concerned, you have the right to vote, but that's where democracy ends in this country...they get elected on lies, do as they want for 4 years, lie some more hope they get re-elected or we elect some other bullshitter. No politician ever seriously consults with his/her constituents once elected...we're all suckers...if no one showed up May 2nd, then that would give the stupid ass bullshitters something to thing about.
As for me the least corrupt seems the green party, but the ndp is a lock here, so it doesn't matter if people really vote or not.
If we threw an election and no one came would we get our $300000000 back? Probably not. I don't agree with your last statement though. Maybe the outcome is a foregone conclusion, but a vote indicates someones preference, and if there are sufficient numbers against the eventual winner it may influence future strategy. I view voting as a requirement of citizenship, and wouldn't mind seeing it become a legal obligation.
I'm pretty sure if the green party or ndp ever formed government, corruption would be there...power seems to corrupt.
I think you might be right...if the green gets 0 seats the party will have trouble surviving, the question is, if the tories get a majority and eliminate party subsidies, can they survive?
I was 1 of those who didn't think the tories would get a majority, but I now see it as a real possibility, or at the very least a even stronger minority that might get some right leaning liberals to cross the floor...it will be interesting May 2nd...I will be glad when it is over, then of course we have our provincial election coming up in October, so it'll be like listening to the best bullshitters for 9 months..hehehehehehe.
Barring a majority I think we might be at this again right after you guys, perhaps at the same time. :roll: Fife's original election thread spawned two others and a total of 400-odd posts: wanna start the ON thread now?
bytterman...
As far as I'm concerned, you have the right to vote, but that's where democracy ends in this country...they get elected on lies, do as they want for 4 years, lie some more hope they get re-elected or we elect some other bullshitter. No politician ever seriously consults with his/her constituents once elected...we're all suckers...if no one showed up May 2nd, then that would give the stupid ass bullshitters something to thing about.
As for me the least corrupt seems the green party, but the ndp is a lock here, so it doesn't matter if people really vote or not.
If we threw an election and no one came would we get our $300000000 back? Probably not. I don't agree with your last statement though. Maybe the outcome is a foregone conclusion, but a vote indicates someones preference, and if there are sufficient numbers against the eventual winner it may influence future strategy. I view voting as a requirement of citizenship, and wouldn't mind seeing it become a legal obligation.
I'm pretty sure if the green party or ndp ever formed government, corruption would be there...power seems to corrupt.
I think you might be right...if the green gets 0 seats the party will have trouble surviving, the question is, if the tories get a majority and eliminate party subsidies, can they survive?
I was 1 of those who didn't think the tories would get a majority, but I now see it as a real possibility, or at the very least a even stronger minority that might get some right leaning liberals to cross the floor...it will be interesting May 2nd...I will be glad when it is over, then of course we have our provincial election coming up in October, so it'll be like listening to the best bullshitters for 9 months..hehehehehehe.
Barring a majority I think we might be at this again right after you guys, perhaps at the same time. :roll: Fife's original election thread spawned two others and a total of 400-odd posts: wanna start the ON thread now?
I think I'll leave the Ontario election thread until the federal is over . Like I said here it's a forgone conclusion, unless something dramatic happens the NDP are a lock. I would like for 1 election for them to add ''none of the above" and "write on" spots on the ballots just to see if voter turn out goes up. I'm one of those who doesn't care the percentage of votes a party gets, it's always been the party with the most seats get the opportunity to govern first, under our system it would be very unlikely that any party could garner 50% of the vote anymore...I guess it's just the way it is...I suspect voter turnout will be fairly this time.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think I'll leave the Ontario election thread until the federal is over . Like I said here it's a forgone conclusion, unless something dramatic happens the NDP are a lock. I would like for 1 election for them to add ''none of the above" and "write on" spots on the ballots just to see if voter turn out goes up. I'm one of those who doesn't care the percentage of votes a party gets, it's always been the party with the most seats get the opportunity to govern first, under our system it would be very unlikely that any party could garner 50% of the vote anymore...I guess it's just the way it is...I suspect voter turnout will be fairly this time.
Based on our earlier exchange I assume that you mean fairly low turnout? I'm starting to think the NDP surge might have the effect of dragging people out for this one. My mom told me that she had to line up for nearly half an hour at an advanced poll in Ontario. Not saying it means too much, but who knows. Probably the good call on the provincial thread!
I think I'll leave the Ontario election thread until the federal is over . Like I said here it's a forgone conclusion, unless something dramatic happens the NDP are a lock. I would like for 1 election for them to add ''none of the above" and "write on" spots on the ballots just to see if voter turn out goes up. I'm one of those who doesn't care the percentage of votes a party gets, it's always been the party with the most seats get the opportunity to govern first, under our system it would be very unlikely that any party could garner 50% of the vote anymore...I guess it's just the way it is...I suspect voter turnout will be fairly this time.
Based on our earlier exchange I assume that you mean fairly low turnout? I'm starting to think the NDP surge might have the effect of dragging people out for this one. My mom told me that she had to line up for nearly half an hour at an advanced poll in Ontario. Not saying it means too much, but who knows. Probably the good call on the provincial thread!
Yes I meant fairly low...my bad typing. Well you never know, maybe we'll get a good turnout. If the NDP vote is up in Ontario that might translate into more seats for Harper, I can't see many tories switching, but the NDP are likely drawing from liberals. I was talking to my neighbour yesterday and she said " she's voted liberal her entire life and might vote NDP this time because she dislikes Ignatieff". It seems that might be the sentiment across the country...to me he comes across as rather arrogant anyways. You know what I find interesting, of the people I've spoken to and come across most say that Harper doesn't really bother them one way or another, as for the corruption they all are in the agreement that whoever we put in will be corrupt...I find that interesting...but hard to argue with...JC 13 years were strewn with scandals and corruption and Mulroney before him...thats the only reason I can figure why Harper will likely retain his seat count or increase it, where used to corruption in politics.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
tvismyfriend is correct. When I said Western Dictatorship I was speaking globally not nationally. Yes it may be a bit of an exaggeration at this point but the way Harper acts and speaks sometimes makes me fear that he will be just like a dictator. He ran on a platform of transparency last time and has done the exact polar opposite since coming into power. )
Cool, thanks for clarifying . My rant was misguided. I completely agree.
Yes I meant fairly low...my bad typing. Well you never know, maybe we'll get a good turnout. If the NDP vote is up in Ontario that might translate into more seats for Harper, I can't see many tories switching, but the NDP are likely drawing from liberals. I was talking to my neighbour yesterday and she said " she's voted liberal her entire life and might vote NDP this time because she dislikes Ignatieff". It seems that might be the sentiment across the country...to me he comes across as rather arrogant anyways. You know what I find interesting, of the people I've spoken to and come across most say that Harper doesn't really bother them one way or another, as for the corruption they all are in the agreement that whoever we put in will be corrupt...I find that interesting...but hard to argue with...JC 13 years were strewn with scandals and corruption and Mulroney before him...thats the only reason I can figure why Harper will likely retain his seat count or increase it, where used to corruption in politics.
Was she specific about her dislike for Ignatieff? Anyway his arrogance was my point when I suggested that he's a fairly typical senior academic; many profs don't really argue, because to argue requires listening, and Ignatieff doesn't strike me as a good listener. It's sad that we've just come to accept crappy/corrupt politicians, but it seems to be well entrenched. On the other hand, the corruption levels we're bitching about pale in comparison to heaps of other place (e.g. Italy, much of Africa, Chicago, etc). Perhaps we tolerate it in the knowledge that it could be far worse.
tvismyfriend is correct. When I said Western Dictatorship I was speaking globally not nationally. Yes it may be a bit of an exaggeration at this point but the way Harper acts and speaks sometimes makes me fear that he will be just like a dictator. He ran on a platform of transparency last time and has done the exact polar opposite since coming into power. )
Cool, thanks for clarifying . My rant was misguided. I completely agree.
It was a great rant though, and will come in handy if Layton ever did manage to re-open the Constitution
Yes I meant fairly low...my bad typing. Well you never know, maybe we'll get a good turnout. If the NDP vote is up in Ontario that might translate into more seats for Harper, I can't see many tories switching, but the NDP are likely drawing from liberals. I was talking to my neighbour yesterday and she said " she's voted liberal her entire life and might vote NDP this time because she dislikes Ignatieff". It seems that might be the sentiment across the country...to me he comes across as rather arrogant anyways. You know what I find interesting, of the people I've spoken to and come across most say that Harper doesn't really bother them one way or another, as for the corruption they all are in the agreement that whoever we put in will be corrupt...I find that interesting...but hard to argue with...JC 13 years were strewn with scandals and corruption and Mulroney before him...thats the only reason I can figure why Harper will likely retain his seat count or increase it, where used to corruption in politics.
Was she specific about her dislike for Ignatieff? Anyway his arrogance was my point when I suggested that he's a fairly typical senior academic; many profs don't really argue, because to argue requires listening, and Ignatieff doesn't strike me as a good listener. It's sad that we've just come to accept crappy/corrupt politicians, but it seems to be well entrenched. On the other hand, the corruption levels we're bitching about pale in comparison to heaps of other place (e.g. Italy, much of Africa, Chicago, etc). Perhaps we tolerate it in the knowledge that it could be far worse.
His arrogance and dropping the ball on an election nobody wanted or needed. I know and she knows Harper wanted this election as much as the other 2...then they should have let them him make the call. In a week if Harper gets his majority then I doubt Layton, Duceppe or Ignatieff will be around in 4 years for another election. I myself don't like Iggy for his arrogance...I think you can trust Layton more than the other 2, but you never know until someone takes power...I don't know, I tend to think their all corrupt bullshitters.
I agree I never found teachers at any level very good listeners...their used to talking all the time.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
His arrogance and dropping the ball on an election nobody wanted or needed. I know and she knows Harper wanted this election as much as the other 2...then they should have let them him make the call. In a week if Harper gets his majority then I doubt Layton, Duceppe or Ignatieff will be around in 4 years for another election. I myself don't like Iggy for his arrogance...I think you can trust Layton more than the other 2, but you never know until someone takes power...I don't know, I tend to think their all corrupt bullshitters.
I agree I never found teachers at any level very good listeners...their used to talking all the time.
All four parties need to start thinking about leadership succession. Harper obviously stays put if he gets a majority but if it's his minority I could see him calling it a day. Layton and Duceppe I agree will pack it in, Layton perhaps in any scenario, but Ignatieff's only been in place for a little more than 2 years (including the stint as interim leader), and is only fighting (sic) his first election as leader. He might very well get pushed, but I'm not convinced that he jumps.
His arrogance and dropping the ball on an election nobody wanted or needed. I know and she knows Harper wanted this election as much as the other 2...then they should have let them him make the call. In a week if Harper gets his majority then I doubt Layton, Duceppe or Ignatieff will be around in 4 years for another election. I myself don't like Iggy for his arrogance...I think you can trust Layton more than the other 2, but you never know until someone takes power...I don't know, I tend to think their all corrupt bullshitters.
I agree I never found teachers at any level very good listeners...their used to talking all the time.
All four parties need to start thinking about leadership succession. Harper obviously stays put if he gets a majority but if it's his minority I could see him calling it a day. Layton and Duceppe I agree will pack it in, Layton perhaps in any scenario, but Ignatieff's only been in place for a little more than 2 years (including the stint as interim leader), and is only fighting (sic) his first election as leader. He might very well get pushed, but I'm not convinced that he jumps.
I agree all 4 parties needs new leadership...do you think Ignatieff is willing to wait four more years to get a shot at PM? I was kind of under the thinking thats why he wanted an election as well...to see where he stands with the the voting public. What if he loses seats? Or the unthinkable and NDP become official opposition? I guess that's a lot of if's! A small part of me thinks he would rather move on in his life than sit four years in opposition, but then again I think a lot of liberal MP's might call it quits within the next few years. That's why I think if Harper gets a seat gain of say 6 or 7, that will get him close to his majority there just might be enough right leaning liberals that will cross and put him over the top and I'm sure his team has some liberals in mind.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think it's funny how people complain that they dislike Ignatieff caused he's arrogant (which he is) but Harper is WAAAY more Arrogant and yet people are ok voting for him. (not referring to anyone in this thread...speaking generally).
I will say this, I think Iggy's eyebrows make it look like he's about to roll his eyes all of the time. If the Liberals image consultants were worth their money at all they would have gotten those things re-shaped to soften his look and make him come across less condecending.
I really hope that this NDP surge means more seats for the NDP and NOT the Cons. I've always said that the NDP would make the best opposition party...Though they'd be WAAAY more effective in a minority.
I agree that Iggy will step down and slink back to his teaching job in the US should he not make any gains in this election. If a miracle happens and the Cons don't get the most seats I thnk Harpers days are numbere as leader of the Cons. Though the alternative may not be any better if they keep on the Tea Party/Reform Party path.
Also I don't think we will be doing this at the same time as Ontario as Harper knows that will piss off the voters and if the seats are that close, he will not want that backlash...esp if the Liberals can quickly get a new leader to replace Iggy. If the NDP surge is that much their may be hope for Bob Rae yet. (lol ya right! a girl can dream)
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
1. harper is a fascist ... proven either in this thread earlier or the other one ...
2. layton is not resigning regardless of outcome ... the party has gained relevance and it's owed to him and his team
3. is there a strategic voting website that has up to date polling numbers?
the biggest advantage the cons have is $$$ ... they will make sure their supporters make it out to vote ... not sure if the ndp have that ability ...
to those who aren't sure who to vote for (heart or anti-harper) ... i say vote strategic if you are a swing riding; vote with your values in every other instance ...
1. harper is a fascist ... proven either in this thread earlier or the other one ...
2. layton is not resigning regardless of outcome ... the party has gained relevance and it's owed to him and his team
3. is there a strategic voting website that has up to date polling numbers?
the biggest advantage the cons have is $$$ ... they will make sure their supporters make it out to vote ... not sure if the ndp have that ability ...
to those who aren't sure who to vote for (heart or anti-harper) ... i say vote strategic if you are a swing riding; vote with your values in every other instance ...
Jack Layton's almost 61, if the conservatives get a majority that would make him almost 65 when the next election rolls around...he might stick around if the numbers translate into a big seat gain...if it does not, would the NDP not want to start the transition to new leadership over the next 4 years?
Since their seems to only be a handful of us who view and post on this thread I doubt we have enough votes to turn tide .
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/04/21 ... cond-poll/
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
And this at the end of a week where the topic of abortion was mentioned? Even though it was just one loony candidate doing the mentioning I thought that that would really hurt them. Very surprising imo.
I wonder if under Dion and now Iggy if the Liberals are perceived to be to far to the left so the centrist liberals have moved to the tories. We'll see May 2nd, I'm not so sure it will translate into a huge seat pick up for the NDP, but it might cost Liberals enough votes where that translate into a seat gain for the tories.
I saw the Iggy on CBC and I got the impression from him that he was not going to give Harper a vote of confidence, forcing the Governor General's hand...so I wonder if that'll push the tories over the top. I thought it was pretty clear the last time they tried this that the Canadian people were not interested...I'm interested in a coalition lead by Layton that includes members of the 3 national federalist parties and no support from the bloc...Quebec gets more than enough already, next thing you know we'll be building them a rink for a NHL team that is know where even close to coming.
As for that abortion comment, I doubt that'll make any difference. I still can't understand the liberals, they needed to focus on what they were going to do to make things better, I think they focused to much on the corruption of the tories and isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Do you mean in terms of the electorate or how Harper's campaign will react to it between now and the 2nd? Interesting assessment of the centrist Liberals. Personally I think that they look a little more centrist under Ignatieff than Dion, but I'm not sure how I would really argue that point. My s/o (who isn't a citizen but is a political junkie) figures that the Liberals shot themselves in the foot when their last leadership race lasted a year or so, and people tuned them right out.
I agree with that completely; don't tell me why I shouldn't vote for Harper, tell me why I should vote for you. If it does end up being a Tory minority then the GG will have an interesting spring/summer. Apparently Johnston is a constitutional expert, and others are already refusing to comment publicly because they might end up involved. I don't see how any coalition can exclude the Bloc and survive though, because there seems little chance that the NDP + Liberals >= 155.
Anyway after vacillating since the writ dropped, I will now commit my vote to anyone who can improve the weather, this is ridiculous even by maritime standards.
I agree with that completely; don't tell me why I shouldn't vote for Harper, tell me why I should vote for you..[/quote]
Normally I would agree with this, not this time. I hate the fear influence, but I worry what harper would do with a majority.
http://www.projectdemocracy.ca/ this site will tell you which way your riding is currently leaning
I really just meant, come May 2nd we'll find out if we have tory majority or minority, I don't see the tories changing strategy now, I think they'll just play it safe. I agree I think there're more centrist except for one policy that puts them at the left cap 'n' trade, I think centrist and people on the right want to know how much this is going to cost them. I would really like to know that...how much is it going to cost. The people I talk to on a daily basis are concerned about jobs, rising gas prices, food prices, taxes etc., I really see the NDP as the only one talking about these issues, which could explain there rise in support, and if someone is going to implement a cap 'n' trade I trust the NDP to do so, so that lower income, working poor and such are not absorbing the brunt of the cost.
That's a great assessment of the liberals...never thought of that as well, and then of course when they selected Iggy he was basically acclaimed...now thats democracy.
I always considered the Liberal almost on the centre of the political spectrum and when Martin was finance minister they might have been a tiny bit to the right fiscally so I think they attracted a lot of red conservatives.
Now they appear to be a party in total confusion as to what they are...and I've read that if Iggy goes then many want to replace him with Bob Rae, so things might not get any better if that happens, but that might be good for the NDP.
Really that's what I think the NDP are doing well, there telling me whats a good about them and why I should vote for them...and their support is rising. The 1 Green commercial was good and informative and at this point they would likely get vote.
Yeah I'm with you on the weather, it's been horrible.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
After being found in contempt of Parliament, LEGALLY how can Stephen Harper be allowed to run in this election??? I would think it would make MORE sense to have a coalition gov't till the Tories choose a new leader THEN we have an election. That's just my opinion. What's happening here shows that contempt of parliament is just another name for non confidence vote. Makes me sick.
If Harper gets his majority...welcome to the first western dictatorship! We'll all be fucked.
http://robcottingham.ca/2011/03/yes-ste ... ce-sheesh/
What's this? EASTERN alienation??
Seriously, decades of Western alienation is exactly why we're in this position. Since the days of the NEP, most Westerners have felt completely disenfranchised by the Libs, and IMO, vote Con because of that. It is not us against them...BC and Sask both have leftist tendencies, and AB votes Con as a protectionist measure (ie: reactionary greed)...Using hyperbole like 'western dictatorship' only increases the rift between regions....
Won't the companies that they do hit just pass the costs along anyway? I don't really understand the economics of a cap and trade system, but it strikes me as extremely dangerous to hit Canadian companies with that cost if the American's don't. The principle of weaning us off of fossil fuels is fine, but if it costs people jobs is it worth it? Not sure.
Martin and Flaherty are pretty similar finance ministers, but of course they answer to very different PMs. The Ignatieff coronation was a response to the inertia caused by the prior race, imo.
They have run a good campaign but I've thought that about the NDP before. Out here the Greens aren't even a blip on the radar, they're running a full-slate of course but they get not a mention, even here on campus. Yesterday's G&M suggested that the NDP surge will hand Gary Lund the Saanich seat over Elizabeth May. If that occurs, and no other Green wins a seat, I suspect this might be the end for that party. That's a gut reaction of course, but with no MPs you have no voice when it matters most, which surely is the point of a political party. I hope I'm wrong.
I think you are right companies will just pass it on to us. I really don't know how there going to get us off fossil fuels, this is big country and many people commute long distances to work, so I really don't know...I commute 35 minutes myself, so when fuel is up it effects me...of course 32% of the price tax.
As far as I'm concerned, you have the right to vote, but that's where democracy ends in this country...they get elected on lies, do as they want for 4 years, lie some more hope they get re-elected or we elect some other bullshitter. No politician ever seriously consults with his/her constituents once elected...we're all suckers...if no one showed up May 2nd, then that would give the stupid ass bullshitters something to thing about.
As for me the least corrupt seems the green party, but the ndp is a lock here, so it doesn't matter if people really vote or not.
I'm pretty sure if the green party or ndp ever formed government, corruption would be there...power seems to corrupt.
I think you might be right...if the green gets 0 seats the party will have trouble surviving, the question is, if the tories get a majority and eliminate party subsidies, can they survive?
I was 1 of those who didn't think the tories would get a majority, but I now see it as a real possibility, or at the very least a even stronger minority that might get some right leaning liberals to cross the floor...it will be interesting May 2nd...I will be glad when it is over, then of course we have our provincial election coming up in October, so it'll be like listening to the best bullshitters for 9 months..hehehehehehe.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/04/23 ... e-fiction/
“If any of you are tempted to vote for the other party, take a look at the costing table at the back of the NDP program,” he added. “They got $30 billion of spending. . . . Don’t go there folks. This is not wise.”
Ignatieff told his supporters the NDP doesn’t have the experience required to form government or the capacity to unseat Conservative leader Stephen Harper from power.
“We have a big choice,” the Liberal leader said. “This is no time for amateur hour here. We could have NDP amateur hour or we can have competent responsible government.” -Ignatieff
This is my favourite 3 paragraphs. Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought Layton has a lot of experience in local government in Toronto? How much experience do you have Ignatieff? The NDP must be a real threat to the Liberals...I'll bet Ignatieff never saw that coming...heheheheheh.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
tvismyfriend is correct. When I said Western Dictatorship I was speaking globally not nationally. Yes it may be a bit of an exaggeration at this point but the way Harper acts and speaks sometimes makes me fear that he will be just like a dictator. He ran on a platform of transparency last time and has done the exact polar opposite since coming into power. He talked about having an elected Senate but has stacked the Senate with Reformers err Tories so that nothing from the house of commons can get through unless THEY support it. I could go on and on.
As far as the Green Party goes, they didn't get any seats in the last election and they still exist. If they don't get any in this election Elizabeth May will prob have to step down as leader. I think the party MAY survive, but we'll see.
Iggy can't ignore the NDP now!! LMAO!! Love it!
I'm torn about who to vote for because my riding is a pretty safe Liberal seat. My heart is with the NDP BUT the NDP candidate in my riding has done NOTHING...no leaflets, no calls, NOTHING. The only candidate in my riding that seems to really want my vote is the liberal, who is also the incumbant. the CON guy did one flyer mailing but thats it. (and I ripped it up). At the end of the day I dunno if I wanna vote for a guy who doesn't seem to care about the job he's asking us to give him. (and it is a him...I looked it up)
If we threw an election and no one came would we get our $300000000 back? Probably not. I don't agree with your last statement though. Maybe the outcome is a foregone conclusion, but a vote indicates someones preference, and if there are sufficient numbers against the eventual winner it may influence future strategy. I view voting as a requirement of citizenship, and wouldn't mind seeing it become a legal obligation.
Barring a majority I think we might be at this again right after you guys, perhaps at the same time. :roll: Fife's original election thread spawned two others and a total of 400-odd posts: wanna start the ON thread now?
I think I'll leave the Ontario election thread until the federal is over
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Based on our earlier exchange I assume that you mean fairly low turnout? I'm starting to think the NDP surge might have the effect of dragging people out for this one. My mom told me that she had to line up for nearly half an hour at an advanced poll in Ontario. Not saying it means too much, but who knows. Probably the good call on the provincial thread!
Yes I meant fairly low...my bad typing. Well you never know, maybe we'll get a good turnout. If the NDP vote is up in Ontario that might translate into more seats for Harper, I can't see many tories switching, but the NDP are likely drawing from liberals. I was talking to my neighbour yesterday and she said " she's voted liberal her entire life and might vote NDP this time because she dislikes Ignatieff". It seems that might be the sentiment across the country...to me he comes across as rather arrogant anyways. You know what I find interesting, of the people I've spoken to and come across most say that Harper doesn't really bother them one way or another, as for the corruption they all are in the agreement that whoever we put in will be corrupt...I find that interesting...but hard to argue with...JC 13 years were strewn with scandals and corruption and Mulroney before him...thats the only reason I can figure why Harper will likely retain his seat count or increase it, where used to corruption in politics.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Was she specific about her dislike for Ignatieff? Anyway his arrogance was my point when I suggested that he's a fairly typical senior academic; many profs don't really argue, because to argue requires listening, and Ignatieff doesn't strike me as a good listener. It's sad that we've just come to accept crappy/corrupt politicians, but it seems to be well entrenched. On the other hand, the corruption levels we're bitching about pale in comparison to heaps of other place (e.g. Italy, much of Africa, Chicago, etc). Perhaps we tolerate it in the knowledge that it could be far worse.
It was a great rant though, and will come in handy if Layton ever did manage to re-open the Constitution
His arrogance and dropping the ball on an election nobody wanted or needed. I know and she knows Harper wanted this election as much as the other 2...then they should have let them him make the call. In a week if Harper gets his majority then I doubt Layton, Duceppe or Ignatieff will be around in 4 years for another election. I myself don't like Iggy for his arrogance...I think you can trust Layton more than the other 2, but you never know until someone takes power...I don't know, I tend to think their all corrupt bullshitters.
I agree I never found teachers at any level very good listeners...their used to talking all the time.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
All four parties need to start thinking about leadership succession. Harper obviously stays put if he gets a majority but if it's his minority I could see him calling it a day. Layton and Duceppe I agree will pack it in, Layton perhaps in any scenario, but Ignatieff's only been in place for a little more than 2 years (including the stint as interim leader), and is only fighting (sic) his first election as leader. He might very well get pushed, but I'm not convinced that he jumps.
I agree all 4 parties needs new leadership...do you think Ignatieff is willing to wait four more years to get a shot at PM? I was kind of under the thinking thats why he wanted an election as well...to see where he stands with the the voting public. What if he loses seats? Or the unthinkable and NDP become official opposition? I guess that's a lot of if's! A small part of me thinks he would rather move on in his life than sit four years in opposition, but then again I think a lot of liberal MP's might call it quits within the next few years. That's why I think if Harper gets a seat gain of say 6 or 7, that will get him close to his majority there just might be enough right leaning liberals that will cross and put him over the top and I'm sure his team has some liberals in mind.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think it's funny how people complain that they dislike Ignatieff caused he's arrogant (which he is) but Harper is WAAAY more Arrogant and yet people are ok voting for him. (not referring to anyone in this thread...speaking generally).
I will say this, I think Iggy's eyebrows make it look like he's about to roll his eyes all of the time. If the Liberals image consultants were worth their money at all they would have gotten those things re-shaped to soften his look and make him come across less condecending.
I really hope that this NDP surge means more seats for the NDP and NOT the Cons. I've always said that the NDP would make the best opposition party...Though they'd be WAAAY more effective in a minority.
I agree that Iggy will step down and slink back to his teaching job in the US should he not make any gains in this election. If a miracle happens and the Cons don't get the most seats I thnk Harpers days are numbere as leader of the Cons. Though the alternative may not be any better if they keep on the Tea Party/Reform Party path.
Also I don't think we will be doing this at the same time as Ontario as Harper knows that will piss off the voters and if the seats are that close, he will not want that backlash...esp if the Liberals can quickly get a new leader to replace Iggy. If the NDP surge is that much their may be hope for Bob Rae yet. (lol ya right! a girl can dream)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1997430/
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
2. layton is not resigning regardless of outcome ... the party has gained relevance and it's owed to him and his team
3. is there a strategic voting website that has up to date polling numbers?
the biggest advantage the cons have is $$$ ... they will make sure their supporters make it out to vote ... not sure if the ndp have that ability ...
to those who aren't sure who to vote for (heart or anti-harper) ... i say vote strategic if you are a swing riding; vote with your values in every other instance ...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1997289/
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Jack Layton's almost 61, if the conservatives get a majority that would make him almost 65 when the next election rolls around...he might stick around if the numbers translate into a big seat gain...if it does not, would the NDP not want to start the transition to new leadership over the next 4 years?
Since their seems to only be a handful of us who view and post on this thread I doubt we have enough votes to turn tide
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon