I agree the corruption is there...front and centre. If you want corruption out of government, then neither the conservatives or liberals will get rid of corruption. What I would like to hear either from the ndp or green party is what they plan on doing to prevent this kind corruption and will they pass legislation that tackles corruption in government, and I'm not hearing that.
ya ... when you think about it ... that's really what the ndp and greens should do ... at every opportunity - highlight the history of entitlement and corruption those two parties have and say how they will govern with integrity ...
agreed....we need them to have moral responsibility to the citizens of the nation first, not to themselves and the might dollar first.
I agree the corruption is there...front and centre. If you want corruption out of government, then neither the conservatives or liberals will get rid of corruption. What I would like to hear either from the ndp or green party is what they plan on doing to prevent this kind corruption and will they pass legislation that tackles corruption in government, and I'm not hearing that.
ya ... when you think about it ... that's really what the ndp and greens should do ... at every opportunity - highlight the history of entitlement and corruption those two parties have and say how they will govern with integrity ...
If they did run on bringing integrity to government that would give voters much better choice...I don't want someone to say where going to bring integrity and end corruption. I want to know that if someone within the government is doing something that is not within the rules then action will be taken, not just removed from cabinet...have the RCMP investigate...bring criminal charges if necessary.
In a way they all blew it for me with AG draft document, they know someone broke the rules by releasing that document...they know it's only a draft document...they know it can't be tabled until parliament is sitting, I would have gained respect instantly for the opposition party that had said "no comment...because it's a draft document that someone released and in doing so broke the rules and the document can't be tabled unless parliaments sitting". None of the parties took the opportunity to show me they would be different and reserve judgement until the AG tabled her full report.
Jack Layton said he would take 24 hours to read the budget before deciding, he took all of 24 minutes. Iggy had decided before it was tabled. My understanding is that May was offered a senate seat if the coalition of a couple years ago went through. This is not appropriate behaviour of anyone who wants me to believe they will bring integrity to government.
Now to that whole G8/G20...sure their was corruption involved...you and I can say that without the final report, where not in a position that could deceive the public or alter the outcome of an election based on reports that are not yet finalized.
However, I do not think this will change people minds very much, because most people feel that all politicians are corrupt...from what I've seen over the last week or so none of them have convinced me that they are not.
I suggest the opposition parties focus on how they can make Canada a better place or Harper will have his majority, because all this corruption accusation does not appear to be working...imo
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
well ... this is politics ... saying they wouldn't comment until the final report comes out is not reasonable ... frig - the conservatives are essentially running a negative ad campaign and are throwing out accusations that don't even meet the sniff test ... in fact, the AG had to ask the Cons to remove a quote they are using inappropriately from their ad campaign ... they literally took a quote from her about 9/11 and attributed it to the G8 with the direct intention to mislead! ... so, to ask the other parties not to comment is like saying ok ... CONS - you can sling mud but we'll just sit here ...
corruption isn't an issue simply because many conservative voters don't care ... unless it's the other parties ...
as for the G8 spending - it isn't even necessary to see the final document ... all the final document will say is whether or not there was misappropriations of funds ... what we know for a FACT is that they made a $50 million "legacy fund" and spent it on kickback projects in conservative ridings during a time of economic downturn where services are cut and people are losing jobs ... they took a fund that is generally around $5 million for all similar events and jacked it up to $50 million so they can give their friends money to do projects that were totally superficial ... that is already known ... the only thing the AG final document will show is whether they did it without going thru infrastructure canada ...
well ... this is politics ... saying they wouldn't comment until the final report comes out is not reasonable ... frig - the conservatives are essentially running a negative ad campaign and are throwing out accusations that don't even meet the sniff test ... in fact, the AG had to ask the Cons to remove a quote they are using inappropriately from their ad campaign ... they literally took a quote from her about 9/11 and attributed it to the G8 with the direct intention to mislead! ... so, to ask the other parties not to comment is like saying ok ... CONS - you can sling mud but we'll just sit here ...
corruption isn't an issue simply because many conservative voters don't care ... unless it's the other parties ...
as for the G8 spending - it isn't even necessary to see the final document ... all the final document will say is whether or not there was misappropriations of funds ... what we know for a FACT is that they made a $50 million "legacy fund" and spent it on kickback projects in conservative ridings during a time of economic downturn where services are cut and people are losing jobs ... they took a fund that is generally around $5 million for all similar events and jacked it up to $50 million so they can give their friends money to do projects that were totally superficial ... that is already known ... the only thing the AG final document will show is whether they did it without going thru infrastructure canada ...
Nobody should show up and vote May 2nd, send a message to all political parties!!!! As far as I can tell they are all corrupt and will maintain a vote for any of them is vote for corruption.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Nobody should show up and vote May 2nd, send a message to all political parties!!!! As far as I can tell they are all corrupt and will maintain a vote for any of them is vote for corruption.
I agree the corruption is there...front and centre. If you want corruption out of government, then neither the conservatives or liberals will get rid of corruption. What I would like to hear either from the ndp or green party is what they plan on doing to prevent this kind corruption and will they pass legislation that tackles corruption in government, and I'm not hearing that.
ya ... when you think about it ... that's really what the ndp and greens should do ... at every opportunity - highlight the history of entitlement and corruption those two parties have and say how they will govern with integrity ...
agreed....we need them to have moral responsibility to the citizens of the nation first, not to themselves and the might dollar first.
Agreed their responsibility should be to their constituents who elected them first not the party...how many NDP and Liberals said during the last campaign that if a private members bill was introduced to eliminate the long gun registry they would vote to eliminate it, and of course they voted along party lines, so they have no more integrity than the the conservatives. They all just like to take the moral high ground. The system is corrupt...imo, and no one is willing to step up and be different and act differently, separate yourself from the herd...someone had a chance this week, none took it, just corruption in the who political process.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Agreed their responsibility should be to their constituents who elected them first not the party...how many NDP and Liberals said during the last campaign that if a private members bill was introduced to eliminate the long gun registry they would vote to eliminate it, and of course they voted along party lines, so they have no more integrity than the the conservatives. They all just like to take the moral high ground. The system is corrupt...imo, and no one is willing to step up and be different and act differently, separate yourself from the herd...someone had a chance this week, none took it, just corruption in the who political process.
the gun registry should not be scrapped ... all the police boards are behind it and the program costs very little to maintain now ...
Nobody should show up and vote May 2nd, send a message to all political parties!!!! As far as I can tell they are all corrupt and will maintain a vote for any of them is vote for corruption.
i'm voting green ...
Well they are probably the least corrupt of them all...but not corrupt free, and with a different leader I could consider them...May just gets on my nerves, one of those who likes to take the moral high ground but was willing to accept a senate seat. That is one NDP idea I like, abolish the senate...just a place for the liberals and conservatives to give their buddies cozy jobs!!!
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Agreed their responsibility should be to their constituents who elected them first not the party...how many NDP and Liberals said during the last campaign that if a private members bill was introduced to eliminate the long gun registry they would vote to eliminate it, and of course they voted along party lines, so they have no more integrity than the the conservatives. They all just like to take the moral high ground. The system is corrupt...imo, and no one is willing to step up and be different and act differently, separate yourself from the herd...someone had a chance this week, none took it, just corruption in the who political process.
the gun registry should not be scrapped ... all the police boards are behind it and the program costs very little to maintain now ...
I was just using it as an example...that's a whole new thread...hehehehe, I don't care either way, I would not vote for someone based on their gin registry views.
The only thing about the gun registry that bothers me is if we're going to have 1 the gun owner need to pay a registration fee, right now they do no pay a fee. I pay yearly to register my car so I don't see why this should be any different.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Nobody should show up and vote May 2nd, send a message to all political parties!!!! As far as I can tell they are all corrupt and will maintain a vote for any of them is vote for corruption.
i'm voting green ...
i have been for the last couple of elections...least amount of corruption and they are thinking of the environment...I figure it balances it out somehow
I didn't get to see the debate, from what I read it was a lot of 3 on 1, which was expected.
Best line of the night... “Why do you have the worst attendance record in the House of Commons of any Member of Parliament?” the NDP leader asked. “Most Canadians, if they don’t show up for work, they don’t get a promotion.”
That one gave me a chuckle, also when he asked "...what happened to the old Stephen Harper?" and the crack about loaning his cane to prop up the government. I managed to stay with it for the duration, but learned nothing except that these people really do some funky accounting, and would like to ask for that chunk of my life back. There was a fair bit of 3 against 1 but it was far better than in 2008, and I thought the format was sort of interesting. I kind of sensed that Ignatieff argues like a veteran professor: completely without listening to the other party (although he did pull back to the original question better than anyone else). I'm not saying that Harper is open-minded at all (because little could be further from the truth) but if Ignatieff is going to run government like faculty council we'll have an even more disconnected electorate, imo.
Good comments on corruption. I forget the quote but the gist is that absolute power corrupts absolutely; the Greens and NDP might have a very clean track record, but that's merely because they've never been in charge (as Ignatieff so gleefully pointed out last night). Not sure of a solution, unfortunately.
i have been for the last couple of elections...least amount of corruption and they are thinking of the environment...I figure it balances it out somehow
i'm lucky tho ... i live in a riding that the conservative rep finishes last behind the greens ... if i was a swing riding ... i'd vote strategic ... :(
i have been for the last couple of elections...least amount of corruption and they are thinking of the environment...I figure it balances it out somehow
i'm lucky tho ... i live in a riding that the conservative rep finishes last behind the greens ... if i was a swing riding ... i'd vote strategic ... :(
I usually vote strategic...parts of SWO may not be in a swing riding, but I sure as hell don't want the really bad guys to get my vote!!
46% - percentage of votes missed by Conservative Leader Stephen Harper - 142 out of 311 - between November 2008 and December 2010, the most recent Parliament.
59% - percentage missed by Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff over the same period - 182 of 311 - the worst voting attendance of all MPs in the House.
3% - percentage of votes missed by Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe - 10 of 311 - followed closely by NDP Leader Jack Layton, 11 of 311.
17 - The number of MPs who missed at least 25 per cent of the votes in the House.
****************
also ... i read that the ndp in some polls are polling second to the bloc in quebec?
In this sense, the word fascist is intended to mean "oppressive", "intolerant", "chauvinist", "genocidal", "dictatorial", "racist", or "aggressive"
oppressive: check
intolerant: check
chauvinist: check
genocidal: i hope not
dictatorial: check
racist: we may not want to say it but he is ... "you people"; "ethnic costumes"
aggressive: check
The video promoting this site is pretty much every second person's facebook status in my newsfeed right now...I swear, I don't know a single admitted con supporter. A couple of my friends are asking the conservatives on their friend list to show themselves - asking why they vote Con, and no one is replying...if more young people got involved in politics, our country would be an entirely different place.
Caught a comedian on Just for Laughs over the weekend who was crackin jokes about priorities, lack of involvement in the political process, and low voter turnout amongst the young....can't get them to the polls, but we can get a million signatures on a petition to not change facebook within a couple hours..
In this sense, the word fascist is intended to mean "oppressive", "intolerant", "chauvinist", "genocidal", "dictatorial", "racist", or "aggressive"
oppressive: check
intolerant: check
chauvinist: check
genocidal: i hope not
dictatorial: check
racist: we may not want to say it but he is ... "you people"; "ethnic costumes"
aggressive: check
well I guess 5 out of 7 ain't bad...oh wait, it is! :?
The problem with the Canadian government right now is there are 3 men who think when an election is called, it's more important to "play politics" than to be productive for the people. Watching the 3 main party leaders take turns ganging up 2 on 1 against one another is incredibly tiresome to watch.
At the end of the day we're going to be right back where we started...Harper in control with a minority government and everyone in the other parties voting strategically for their own agenda and not what's best for the country...
I'll vote because I always vote, it's not inconvenient for me as our polling station is just a 10 minute walk but I can see how some people could be getting very annoyed with all these elections. I cant remember the last time we went a full year without those stupid signs stuck in the ground all around our neighborhood...
The problem with the Canadian government right now is there are 3 men who think when an election is called, it's more important to "play politics" than to be productive for the people. Watching the 3 main party leaders take turns ganging up 2 on 1 against one another is incredibly tiresome to watch.
At the end of the day we're going to be right back where we started...Harper in control with a minority government and everyone in the other parties voting strategically for their own agenda and not what's best for the country...
I'll vote because I always vote, it's not inconvenient for me as our polling station is just a 10 minute walk but I can see how some people could be getting very annoyed with all these elections. I cant remember the last time we went a full year without those stupid signs stuck in the ground all around our neighborhood...
The problem now is the hockey playoffs, the election will take a backseat to hockey, and there will most likely be a game every night so a lot more people are not going to follow the election. I suspect the polling numbers will pretty much stay the same. I do think if the opposition keeps hammering the tories over corruption it just might give Harper a majority. Sometimes I wonder if we've just seen so much corruption in politics that we expect it no matter who is in office so we just tune it out, and it appears people might be tuning it out.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The problem now is the hockey playoffs, the election will take a backseat to hockey, and there will most likely be a game every night so a lot more people are not going to follow the election. I suspect the polling numbers will pretty much stay the same. I do think if the opposition keeps hammering the tories over corruption it just might give Harper a majority. Sometimes I wonder if we've just seen so much corruption in politics that we expect it no matter who is in office so we just tune it out, and it appears people might be tuning it out.
maybe Harper should use prorogation for the playoffs too :roll:
The problem with the Canadian government right now is there are 3 men who think when an election is called, it's more important to "play politics" than to be productive for the people. Watching the 3 main party leaders take turns ganging up 2 on 1 against one another is incredibly tiresome to watch.
At the end of the day we're going to be right back where we started...Harper in control with a minority government and everyone in the other parties voting strategically for their own agenda and not what's best for the country...
I'll vote because I always vote, it's not inconvenient for me as our polling station is just a 10 minute walk but I can see how some people could be getting very annoyed with all these elections. I cant remember the last time we went a full year without those stupid signs stuck in the ground all around our neighborhood...
if harper was prepared to move to the centre and work with other parties - we wouldn't be in an election ... the bottom line is his ideology is so far removed from the other parties and rest of canada that in order to get it passed - he needs a majority ... hence this election ... i can guarantee you that a minority gov't with anyone but the conservatives at the helm - we wouldn't be going thru this mess ...
this is strictly a function of one right wing party vs. the rest of canada ...
In fairness, we've heard plenty of negatives on the tories and liberals, now it's the greens turn...
I guess it's true then...politics is a fair game...
Just that a vote for any of the 4 national parties is a vote for corruption... , they all got corruption in them and not 1 has come out with a detailed plan as to how they will get rid of corruption in government, not 1.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
agreed....we need them to have moral responsibility to the citizens of the nation first, not to themselves and the might dollar first.
If they did run on bringing integrity to government that would give voters much better choice...I don't want someone to say where going to bring integrity and end corruption. I want to know that if someone within the government is doing something that is not within the rules then action will be taken, not just removed from cabinet...have the RCMP investigate...bring criminal charges if necessary.
In a way they all blew it for me with AG draft document, they know someone broke the rules by releasing that document...they know it's only a draft document...they know it can't be tabled until parliament is sitting, I would have gained respect instantly for the opposition party that had said "no comment...because it's a draft document that someone released and in doing so broke the rules and the document can't be tabled unless parliaments sitting". None of the parties took the opportunity to show me they would be different and reserve judgement until the AG tabled her full report.
Jack Layton said he would take 24 hours to read the budget before deciding, he took all of 24 minutes. Iggy had decided before it was tabled. My understanding is that May was offered a senate seat if the coalition of a couple years ago went through. This is not appropriate behaviour of anyone who wants me to believe they will bring integrity to government.
Now to that whole G8/G20...sure their was corruption involved...you and I can say that without the final report, where not in a position that could deceive the public or alter the outcome of an election based on reports that are not yet finalized.
However, I do not think this will change people minds very much, because most people feel that all politicians are corrupt...from what I've seen over the last week or so none of them have convinced me that they are not.
I suggest the opposition parties focus on how they can make Canada a better place or Harper will have his majority, because all this corruption accusation does not appear to be working...imo
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
corruption isn't an issue simply because many conservative voters don't care ... unless it's the other parties ...
as for the G8 spending - it isn't even necessary to see the final document ... all the final document will say is whether or not there was misappropriations of funds ... what we know for a FACT is that they made a $50 million "legacy fund" and spent it on kickback projects in conservative ridings during a time of economic downturn where services are cut and people are losing jobs ... they took a fund that is generally around $5 million for all similar events and jacked it up to $50 million so they can give their friends money to do projects that were totally superficial ... that is already known ... the only thing the AG final document will show is whether they did it without going thru infrastructure canada ...
Nobody should show up and vote May 2nd, send a message to all political parties!!!! As far as I can tell they are all corrupt and will maintain a vote for any of them is vote for corruption.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i'm voting green ...
Agreed their responsibility should be to their constituents who elected them first not the party...how many NDP and Liberals said during the last campaign that if a private members bill was introduced to eliminate the long gun registry they would vote to eliminate it, and of course they voted along party lines, so they have no more integrity than the the conservatives. They all just like to take the moral high ground. The system is corrupt...imo, and no one is willing to step up and be different and act differently, separate yourself from the herd...someone had a chance this week, none took it, just corruption in the who political process.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
the gun registry should not be scrapped ... all the police boards are behind it and the program costs very little to maintain now ...
Well they are probably the least corrupt of them all...but not corrupt free, and with a different leader I could consider them...May just gets on my nerves, one of those who likes to take the moral high ground but was willing to accept a senate seat. That is one NDP idea I like, abolish the senate...just a place for the liberals and conservatives to give their buddies cozy jobs!!!
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I was just using it as an example...that's a whole new thread...hehehehe, I don't care either way, I would not vote for someone based on their gin registry views.
The only thing about the gun registry that bothers me is if we're going to have 1 the gun owner need to pay a registration fee, right now they do no pay a fee. I pay yearly to register my car so I don't see why this should be any different.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i have been for the last couple of elections...least amount of corruption and they are thinking of the environment...I figure it balances it out somehow
That one gave me a chuckle, also when he asked "...what happened to the old Stephen Harper?" and the crack about loaning his cane to prop up the government. I managed to stay with it for the duration, but learned nothing except that these people really do some funky accounting, and would like to ask for that chunk of my life back. There was a fair bit of 3 against 1 but it was far better than in 2008, and I thought the format was sort of interesting. I kind of sensed that Ignatieff argues like a veteran professor: completely without listening to the other party (although he did pull back to the original question better than anyone else). I'm not saying that Harper is open-minded at all (because little could be further from the truth) but if Ignatieff is going to run government like faculty council we'll have an even more disconnected electorate, imo.
Good comments on corruption. I forget the quote but the gist is that absolute power corrupts absolutely; the Greens and NDP might have a very clean track record, but that's merely because they've never been in charge (as Ignatieff so gleefully pointed out last night). Not sure of a solution, unfortunately.
i'm lucky tho ... i live in a riding that the conservative rep finishes last behind the greens ... if i was a swing riding ... i'd vote strategic ... :(
I usually vote strategic...parts of SWO may not be in a swing riding, but I sure as hell don't want the really bad guys to get my vote!!
46% - percentage of votes missed by Conservative Leader Stephen Harper - 142 out of 311 - between November 2008 and December 2010, the most recent Parliament.
59% - percentage missed by Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff over the same period - 182 of 311 - the worst voting attendance of all MPs in the House.
3% - percentage of votes missed by Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe - 10 of 311 - followed closely by NDP Leader Jack Layton, 11 of 311.
17 - The number of MPs who missed at least 25 per cent of the votes in the House.
****************
also ... i read that the ndp in some polls are polling second to the bloc in quebec?
Harper decorated the government lobby in parliament with photos of just himself, instead of the traditional portraits of former Prime Ministers.
is that true!?? ... i thought the letterhead change was bad - but this!?
:wtf: can you say dictator? :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_%28epithet%29
In this sense, the word fascist is intended to mean "oppressive", "intolerant", "chauvinist", "genocidal", "dictatorial", "racist", or "aggressive"
oppressive: check
intolerant: check
chauvinist: check
genocidal: i hope not
dictatorial: check
racist: we may not want to say it but he is ... "you people"; "ethnic costumes"
aggressive: check
Caught a comedian on Just for Laughs over the weekend who was crackin jokes about priorities, lack of involvement in the political process, and low voter turnout amongst the young....can't get them to the polls, but we can get a million signatures on a petition to not change facebook within a couple hours..
well I guess 5 out of 7 ain't bad...oh wait, it is! :?
At the end of the day we're going to be right back where we started...Harper in control with a minority government and everyone in the other parties voting strategically for their own agenda and not what's best for the country...
I'll vote because I always vote, it's not inconvenient for me as our polling station is just a 10 minute walk but I can see how some people could be getting very annoyed with all these elections. I cant remember the last time we went a full year without those stupid signs stuck in the ground all around our neighborhood...
+1 on your whole statement
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
maybe Harper should use prorogation for the playoffs too :roll:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/green-party-ca ... 8-933.html
In fairness, we've heard plenty of negatives on the tories and liberals, now it's the greens turn...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I guess it's true then...politics is a fair game...
if harper was prepared to move to the centre and work with other parties - we wouldn't be in an election ... the bottom line is his ideology is so far removed from the other parties and rest of canada that in order to get it passed - he needs a majority ... hence this election ... i can guarantee you that a minority gov't with anyone but the conservatives at the helm - we wouldn't be going thru this mess ...
this is strictly a function of one right wing party vs. the rest of canada ...
the difference is ... he resigned as opposed to saying an "aide" posted it without him knowing and the "aide" resigning ...
Just that a vote for any of the 4 national parties is a vote for corruption...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon