You seem incredibly pessimistic and judgmental and could use a miracle in your life.
this is what I call judgmental.
goes with out saying Paul David gave it back at him because he hurt me with his words...is that what you would like to do too? Looks as if you'd like too.
my personal belief is that "miracles" happen to those that need it, look for it, and find it themselves. the only miracle I know is nature. and my girls. but everyone's children are their miracles, so then it's just normal life in the grand sense.
I think one person's miracle is another person's happenstance.
it bothers me, Pandora, that you (and many other theists) seem to think that people who don't believe in miracles need to open their heart to something. My heart is open as big as it can get, probably bigger than many who believe in miracles.
Just because I don't believe what you do, doesn't make me any less of a person. that's what he means by narrow minded and egotistical. believing one is chosen for some greater understanding where others are left behind is not a nice thing to think of oneself, in my opinion.
That is not what I was saying and obviously not directing it towards you.
I said if you are in need of God he is there. I said open your heart to the fact it happened to me
instead of poo pooing and making me less of a person for believing I had one.
What I said was if you want to believe don't be to proud to ask...just ask for a miracle.
If you are in need of God just ask for him... he is there.
This not for you if the shoe doesn't fit or for others here.
But of course there is the need to put me down.
Not sure what a theists is but I'm pretty sure I'm not one yet you have lumped me with them...
generalizing. Something so many here need to do.
Just a regular person who had a miracle that changed my life and those I love for the better.
That is not what I was saying and obviously not directing it towards you.
I said if you are in need of God he is there. I said open your heart to the fact it happened to me
instead of poo pooing and making me less of a person for believing I had one.
What I said was if you want to believe don't be to proud to ask...just ask for a miracle.
If you are in need of God just ask for him... he is there.
This not for you if the shoe doesn't fit or for others here.
But of course there is the need to put me down.
Not sure what a theists is but I'm pretty sure I'm not one yet you have lumped me with them...
generalizing. Something so many here need to do.
Just a regular person who had a miracle that changed my life and those I love for the better.
maybe it wasn't directed towards me, but since it wasn't a pm I was reading, I thought it was fine that I comment.
a theist is someone who believes in a higher power. So you are a theist. it's not an insult. that's just what it means. that is no more a generalization than saying you are a ten club member.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
goes with out saying Paul David gave it back at him because he hurt me with his words...is that what you would like to do too? Looks as if you'd like too.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I consider myself a spiritual person, that has been my evolution.
I was raised without religion,
did some learning and pursuing of it in young adult hood.
Became an athesist.
Nearly took my own life at the age of 37 ...I was so very tired of life and most everyone in it
but mostly I was tired of me.
A revelation brought to me life as seen through my children's eyes.
In that moment I decided I had to stay for my them and asked for a miracle...
to be shown by God that he was there for me...for all of us.
I had a profound experience 3 years later in 1996, it was life changing.
A miracle that proved to me without a doubt there is an afterlife and a God.
The peace that has grown from my miracle has changed what my life is
and was and would have been.
It changed the children I raised and the life partner I am for JB.
If you want to believe don't be to proud to ask...just ask for a miracle.
If you are in need of God just ask for him... he is there.
I also experienced a miracle in 1996. It was called No Code
I'm a total phony... because I pretend to be religious when necessary. When I was a kid, the Christianity I was taught to believe in never made sense to me. Bible class at church used to make me feel dumb because everyone else seemed to 'get it' but I couldn't comprehend it. But I learned how to fake it. I was raised Protestant in a town full of Catholics... very confusing. I couldn't understand why my mother and her family didn't believe in the Pope when my dad and his family did... although Protestantism was less daunting. Catholic churches freaked me out. Everything about Catholicism that was different from Protestantism... the haunting stained glass windows, the images of Jesus on a cross, the exorcisms, the weird rituals, the chants, the way priests dressed, having to go to confession, ... on the rare occasion I went to a Catholic mass with a friend, I was seriously unnerved by it, and I was glad I didn't have to deal with all that on a regular basis. But all of my friends that I grew up with were Catholic. The two kids who were my age at my church were pricks. Christianity, in all its forms, was a total mindfuck.
Religion has always bewildered and fascinated me. At this point, it amuses me more than it angers me. As ridiculous as it all is, I still would say there is some truth in just some in just about any religion, because at the core of any religion is an appeal to the yearnings of our souls. I consider myself a spiritual person. Why? It's simple. Because I have a soul. I can't deny that, and wouldn't ever want to. I'm not sure if every other human being has a soul, because many appear to lack one, but I'm certain that I do. I don't at all think that when my body dies, my soul will also die. I can't accept that possibility. At the same time, I can't grasp the idea that I, as a soul, will exist forever. This too is a total mindfuck.
I consider myself a spiritual person. Why? It's simple. Because I have a soul.
Spirituality does not need religion or a god. It comes from within.
Same as miracles. They are not handed around by a 'supreme' being. A miracle (basically some event that one can't comprehend or explain scientifically at the time) can either be a fluke (eg the earthquake in Japan -a house is spared when others around it are completely destroyed) or come from some inner strength that one didn't know they had - a trigger of some sort made it happen. That my husband is a alive is a miracle, the medical profession said. My husband said he had an out of body experience, he saw my daughter and me and could hear our voices and he said he needed to be there for us. They used the word 'miracle' because he should have died. They used the word 'miracle' again regarding his recovery (ie he's not a vegetable). No god, no miracle, no nothing - just inner strength. Not inner strength given by god but from his will to see his daughter and be a dad for her. Oh, on a side note, out of body experience doesn't mean afterlife.
One believes what they want - I believe that religion and reliance on a supreme being is a crutch.
That is not what I was saying and obviously not directing it towards you.
I said if you are in need of God he is there. I said open your heart to the fact it happened to me
instead of poo pooing and making me less of a person for believing I had one.
What I said was if you want to believe don't be to proud to ask...just ask for a miracle.
If you are in need of God just ask for him... he is there.
This not for you if the shoe doesn't fit or for others here.
But of course there is the need to put me down.
Not sure what a theists is but I'm pretty sure I'm not one yet you have lumped me with them...
generalizing. Something so many here need to do.
Just a regular person who had a miracle that changed my life and those I love for the better.
maybe it wasn't directed towards me, but since it wasn't a pm I was reading, I thought it was fine that I comment.
a theist is someone who believes in a higher power. So you are a theist. it's not an insult. that's just what it means. that is no more a generalization than saying you are a ten club member.
again you misunderstand as does redrock......it was not for you...
in that I said if you are in need of God and you both are not I take it.
I found he was there, shown he was there.
Thats not for you.
But there may be people out there that are in need of something,
searching, lost, self absorbed, unhappy, negative.
I was sharing my experience not trying to push any beliefs on anyone....
if something doesn't pertain to you, you could ignore it
I didn't read the entire thread but I believe I was one of the only ones jumped on
for my spiritual beliefs when I was just sharing my life story as others were.
As I said if for one minute you knew without a doubt divine supernatural intervention
I have experienced would you be so quick to hurt me?
And even if you don't believe what business would it be of yours?
I am happy and at peace in my knowledge and do not care what non believers think.
And if there is someone out there that can relate and get something
from my experience that is wonderful and might make their world better.
To another poster...
We all have choices that connect us together in the puzzle of life and beyond.
And it is not up to God to solve anything it is up to us.
Whether one believes in God or not we are here to learn and love everyone no matter their beliefs.
I hope that you love me and accept me as I do you.
Proud to be theist and just as proud to be a PJ fan!
They have been on my journey with me through it all!
Just curious, a lot of people on the train seem to bash religion. Do this many people not believe in god, or heaven, or hell?
Nobody should bash religion because if that's what someone believes then they should be allowed too.
Me, I don't have a religious bone in my body and think it's all mumbo jumbo. I can't get my head around the thought there is a God that sits around watching the appalling things that take place around this world. He can flood the planet because of the way man has become but doesn't fry Gaddafi's arse.
Just my thoughts. I have religious friends but we just don't talk about it.
I didn't read the entire thread but I believe I was one of the only ones jumped on
for my spiritual beliefs when I was just sharing my life story as others were.
As I said if for one minute you knew without a doubt divine supernatural intervention
I have experienced would you be so quick to hurt me?
No need for such drama - hurt, cruel... etc. You haven't been 'jumped on'. Though one may think you also 'jump on' those that share their 'non beliefs': "You seem incredibly pessimistic and judgmental and could use a miracle in your life." "Open your heart...".
You say divine intervention, I say 'intervention' comes within. You've decided your 'experience' was divine, my husband knows his experience was human - his strength. That's all.
Maybe if your comment about god being there for all IF we wanted, should have been worded as such.
If one believes in Heaven, ie a place where one goes after death if he/she has been 'good', is it not illogical to say there is no hell - or whatever one wants to call 'the place of eternal punishment' - for those that have been 'bad'? After all, both are mentioned in the bible. Can we take one without the other? Same with god/satan?
I didn't read the entire thread but I believe I was one of the only ones jumped on
for my spiritual beliefs when I was just sharing my life story as others were.
As I said if for one minute you knew without a doubt divine supernatural intervention
I have experienced would you be so quick to hurt me?
No need for such drama - hurt, cruel... etc. You haven't been 'jumped on'. Though one may think you also 'jump on' those that share their 'non beliefs': "You seem incredibly pessimistic and judgmental and could use a miracle in your life." "Open your heart...".
You say divine intervention, I say 'intervention' comes within. You've decided your 'experience' was divine, my husband knows his experience was human - his strength. That's all.
Maybe if your comment about god being there for all IF we wanted, should have been worded as such.
Let's just leave this as it is.
The IF 'you all wanted him'.... he is there..... was the whole message I shared and again if its not something you can relate to why bother..unless just to put someone down.It was clear I was speaking to those in search of something not those who are not.
I was called egotistical and narrow minded but you only choose to see
what I say... not what others say to me redrock...why is that?
and yes I was hurt, no drama there, only you dismissing me and my feelings ...again ....why is that?
and being called those names when sharing a life changing event was very hurtful and why I retaliated with judgmental and pessimistic because that is exactly what it was.
please reread I said 'if you open your heart to the fact I truly had one you would not be quick to be so cruel.' not open your heart to God but the fact I believe I had a miracle so much so that I know without a doubt there is a God and an afterlife. Then I get jumped on and called names. Not pushing any views just sharing my life experience.
And redrock... It was divine supernatural intervention absolutely nothing to do with my power or strength as a human being
nothing I had to overcome... absolutely nothing human about it.
Not seeing a lot of love here...just sayin'. It seems that those who don't believe scoff at those who do, and those who do believe kinda judge the ones who don't. Most who have answered this post appear to be against 'religion' per se, and several do not believe in God. I wonder what the person who posted this subject thinks about the discussion? It's rather depressing to me, actually. :(
Not seeing a lot of love here...just sayin'. It seems that those who don't believe scoff at those who do, and those who do believe kinda judge the ones who don't. Most who have answered this post appear to be against 'religion' per se, and several do not believe in God. I wonder what the person who posted this subject thinks about the discussion? It's rather depressing to me, actually. :(
This has been so far a good interchange of ideas, the discurse between theist and atheist it's been always like this. But you have to admit that the atheist won
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Not seeing a lot of love here...just sayin'. It seems that those who don't believe scoff at those who do, and those who do believe kinda judge the ones who don't. Most who have answered this post appear to be against 'religion' per se, and several do not believe in God. I wonder what the person who posted this subject thinks about the discussion? It's rather depressing to me, actually. :(
This has been so far a good interchange of ideas, the discurse between theist and atheist it's been always like this. But you have to admit that the atheist won
maybe here but not there ...sorry couldn't resist
just kidding arq.... a little believers joke .... gotta keep a sense of humor going
But seriously we must remember we are all here in this world together, thats what matters
this world here and now.
Not seeing a lot of love here...just sayin'. It seems that those who don't believe scoff at those who do, and those who do believe kinda judge the ones who don't. Most who have answered this post appear to be against 'religion' per se, and several do not believe in God. I wonder what the person who posted this subject thinks about the discussion? It's rather depressing to me, actually. :(
This has been so far a good interchange of ideas, the discurse between theist and atheist it's been always like this. But you have to admit that the atheist won
Yes, I know, it is always like this, thus I try to avoid the subject because typically it goes nowhere. And, yeah, I did make the observation of the majority of those who responded...but I wasn't looking at it in terms of who 'won'. If you're 'winning', props to you. Winning is relative.
Not seeing a lot of love here...just sayin'. It seems that those who don't believe scoff at those who do, and those who do believe kinda judge the ones who don't. Most who have answered this post appear to be against 'religion' per se, and several do not believe in God. I wonder what the person who posted this subject thinks about the discussion? It's rather depressing to me, actually. :(
I see what you're saying, so I thought I'd chime in.
I think the people who respond to this type of thread are the ones who have really thought about it, and are pretty sure of themselves (and hold steady on their beliefs). I, on the other hand, am in the middle sometimes. I'd say I am agnostic, but I hate to stand concrete on this one.
I think that amazing things happen all the time. Divine intervention and/or God speaking to us? I dont know.. Its all how we perceive it.
I think we can debate it -- but I need to believe most folks in here respect each others stances, but just get a little passionate sometimes.
I think we can debate it -- but I need to believe most folks in here respect each others stances, but just get a little passionate sometimes.[/quote]
Again, agreed. It is a passionate subject. I also need to believe that most have mutual respect and acceptance (i.e. of others' beliefs/opinions)...but some, not so much. The thread just gives me a vibe of subtle hostility...
If one believes in Heaven, ie a place where one goes after death if he/she has been 'good', is it not illogical to say there is no hell - or whatever one wants to call 'the place of eternal punishment' - for those that have been 'bad'? After all, both are mentioned in the bible. Can we take one without the other? Same with god/satan?
I think it's logical. I see your logic too, but I think the difference might sometimes be how one defines these terms... heaven hell, good, bad, God, Satan. Not everyone who believes in "heaven" sees it as a physical location where you get to live the same kind of physical existence you lived on earth only with all the things you always wanted, for instance. And not everyone believes that bad people must exist for there to be good people. And maybe some people believe that this is hell.
I like to think that everyone is essentially good & will therefore go to heaven, whatever heaven may mean. I don't believe in hell, fire & brimstone, eternal punishment, or any of that.
Just curious, alot of people on the train seem to bash religion. Do this many people not believe in god, or heaven, or hell?
Again, I think it's more a bashing of what people see as others' beliefs (or non-belief) being imposed upon them (and everyone).
We would probably have much more civil discourse if people would use phrases like "I believe" instead of "I know" and "I haven't seen any scientific evidence" instead of "science proves that you're wrong".
I understand that people are passionate about their beliefs (whether atheist or theist), but we should respect & leave room for the beliefs of others too. After all, none of us really knows anything for sure.
If one believes in Heaven, ie a place where one goes after death if he/she has been 'good', is it not illogical to say there is no hell - or whatever one wants to call 'the place of eternal punishment' - for those that have been 'bad'? After all, both are mentioned in the bible. Can we take one without the other? Same with god/satan?
I think it's logical. I see your logic too, but I think the difference might sometimes be how one defines these terms... heaven hell, good, bad, God, Satan. Not everyone who believes in "heaven" sees it as a physical location where you get to live the same kind of physical existence you lived on earth only with all the things you always wanted, for instance. And not everyone believes that bad people must exist for there to be good people. And maybe some people believe that this is hell.
I like to think that everyone is essentially good & will therefore go to heaven, whatever heaven may mean. I don't believe in hell, fire & brimstone, eternal punishment, or any of that.
This poster believes in god and in heaven (so believes in 'reward'). I am making the assumption that it is the christian god (though I may be wrong). This god seems to dish out punishment and reward - there are numerous references to 'entering the kingdom of god' (if you haven't sinned) or being thrown in hell. There is mention of 'the beast' and fiery lakes, etc. Now of course, there is no physical place 'up there' on the fluffy clouds or 'down there' amidst flames and sulphur as, first of all, it's not your physical being that goes to those places. I guess some people may think this place is hell (or at least purgatory) and believe there is a final recompense in the afterlife should you have 'behaved' or even maybe properly repented for your 'sins' by good deeds etc. So, if 'heaven' is a reward for good behaviour, should there not be a 'punishment' for bad?
Good and evil have always been and will always be. We will each have our definition of good and evil and many philosophers have pondered on this conflict for ages without complete consensus.
What happens with this good vs. evil and 'us' depends on what we believe. As I said, the christian god punishes and rewards (again - however you wish to define these) in the afterlife. So I'm thinking if the 'good' go somewhere, the 'bad' must as well - somewhere different.
I have read much on near death experience, studied all I could find from '96 to '99
in hopes of helping my mother with her passing.
She hadn't had religion in her life although her Mother was a devout Seventh Day Adventist.
Religion far more important in her era than ours now. It was her choice not to believe.
She knew and lived with more misery, betrayal and evil than one should ever have to.
She carried a lot of guilt for choices made in her 81 years and was very frightened
of death.
So I hunted for proof and we shared many long hours on the subject.
Until she was at peace with where she was going.
When it is said that none of us knows for sure that is not what I found in my studies.
It is not what I gave to my Mother that helped her graciously leave this world.
And it is not what I know to be true for myself and those
I personally have spoken to about near death experience. Some do know.
There are many who know there is an afterlife, they walk this earth and carry the knowledge
with their very being, just as my miracle has given me.
Of course we are all given the choice to believe their experience or not.
And that can not be debated our freedom of choice and finding our own truth
and the need for that.
Our choice to believe a person who dies on the operating table yet can tell you what their dearest relative was doing thousands of miles away at that precise moment ...because they went to say goodbye in spirit.
Or the dying patient who leaves this world to be brought back 10 minutes later that can tell the attending nurses ...there is a window open on the 11th floor with a red slipper on the ledge.
These just a quick couple of examples and I must say... it makes for delightful intriguing study.
The countless documented stories of people experiencing the same near death experience
but with a personal twist.
As there is for my miracle which I have also researched and know I'm not alone.
When my Mama passed it was I who found her. It had not been long that she was gone. Minutes.
I knew she waited for me to come say goodbye. I know she was still there in spirit, I could feel her there
and I know I will see her again.
I'd like to add something again, it's unfortunate that society has made us so cynical related to the reality, how things around us has conditioned us to be a certain way, think a certain way. Way's that go against the truth.
So when we say, belief is not really all that necessary, we have the ability to know, without a doubt what the reality is, and I'm not going to speak about religion, I tend not to say much about religion per say, as it's not always the best way to go about it. Not at such an early stage.
I know it's hard to believe that we can awaken from our sleep, but it's nothing but the truth. But again, don't believe it, experience it for yourself. As we so often say. It's the only way to know for sure right?
Be still and see. If you like, perhaps a look into Buddhist teachings will help you along the path. But don't get lost in it,
If one believes in Heaven, ie a place where one goes after death if he/she has been 'good', is it not illogical to say there is no hell - or whatever one wants to call 'the place of eternal punishment' - for those that have been 'bad'? After all, both are mentioned in the bible. Can we take one without the other? Same with god/satan?
I think it's logical. I see your logic too, but I think the difference might sometimes be how one defines these terms... heaven hell, good, bad, God, Satan. Not everyone who believes in "heaven" sees it as a physical location where you get to live the same kind of physical existence you lived on earth only with all the things you always wanted, for instance. And not everyone believes that bad people must exist for there to be good people. And maybe some people believe that this is hell.
I like to think that everyone is essentially good & will therefore go to heaven, whatever heaven may mean. I don't believe in hell, fire & brimstone, eternal punishment, or any of that.
This poster believes in god and in heaven (so believes in 'reward'). I am making the assumption that it is the christian god (though I may be wrong). This god seems to dish out punishment and reward - there are numerous references to 'entering the kingdom of god' (if you haven't sinned) or being thrown in hell. There is mention of 'the beast' and fiery lakes, etc. Now of course, there is no physical place 'up there' on the fluffy clouds or 'down there' amidst flames and sulphur as, first of all, it's not your physical being that goes to those places. I guess some people may think this place is hell (or at least purgatory) and believe there is a final recompense in the afterlife should you have 'behaved' or even maybe properly repented for your 'sins' by good deeds etc. So, if 'heaven' is a reward for good behaviour, should there not be a 'punishment' for bad?
Good and evil have always been and will always be. We will each have our definition of good and evil and many philosophers have pondered on this conflict for ages without complete consensus.
What happens with this good vs. evil and 'us' depends on what we believe. As I said, the christian god punishes and rewards (again - however you wish to define these) in the afterlife. So I'm thinking if the 'good' go somewhere, the 'bad' must as well - somewhere different.
I guess my point is that not everyone who considers themselves to be Christian really believes that God punishes & rewards like many people interpret the Bible to say. People have numerous interpretations of religious principles and so our logic of our understanding of someone else's God isn't necessarily applicable.
We cannot "know" anything except through our interpretation of it. Two people can experience the exact same thing and take away different "knowledge" from it. Neither of them is wrong or right.
I think it's logical. I see your logic too, but I think the difference might sometimes be how one defines these terms... heaven hell, good, bad, God, Satan. Not everyone who believes in "heaven" sees it as a physical location where you get to live the same kind of physical existence you lived on earth only with all the things you always wanted, for instance. And not everyone believes that bad people must exist for there to be good people. And maybe some people believe that this is hell.
I like to think that everyone is essentially good & will therefore go to heaven, whatever heaven may mean. I don't believe in hell, fire & brimstone, eternal punishment, or any of that.
This poster believes in god and in heaven (so believes in 'reward'). I am making the assumption that it is the christian god (though I may be wrong). This god seems to dish out punishment and reward - there are numerous references to 'entering the kingdom of god' (if you haven't sinned) or being thrown in hell. There is mention of 'the beast' and fiery lakes, etc. Now of course, there is no physical place 'up there' on the fluffy clouds or 'down there' amidst flames and sulphur as, first of all, it's not your physical being that goes to those places. I guess some people may think this place is hell (or at least purgatory) and believe there is a final recompense in the afterlife should you have 'behaved' or even maybe properly repented for your 'sins' by good deeds etc. So, if 'heaven' is a reward for good behaviour, should there not be a 'punishment' for bad?
Good and evil have always been and will always be. We will each have our definition of good and evil and many philosophers have pondered on this conflict for ages without complete consensus.
What happens with this good vs. evil and 'us' depends on what we believe. As I said, the christian god punishes and rewards (again - however you wish to define these) in the afterlife. So I'm thinking if the 'good' go somewhere, the 'bad' must as well - somewhere different.
I guess my point is that not everyone who considers themselves to be Christian really believes that God punishes & rewards like many people interpret the Bible to say. People have numerous interpretations of religious principles and so our logic of our understanding of someone else's God isn't necessarily applicable.
True... I guess people can pick and choose which bits of religion/teachings they wish to abide by/include in their lives as it suits. A bit like picking the raisins out of your muesli if you don't like them. My mother was a staunch catholic and 'took note' of things. My father became catholic to marry my mother and really couldn't give a s**t about any god or 'teachings'.
To each their own.
I look at good vs evil from a philosophical point of view and not a religious one. Rewards & punishment for good or evil are in this world - it's what we make of it.
I look at good vs evil from a philosophical point of view and not a religious one. Rewards & punishment for good or evil are in this world - it's what we make of it.
I look at evil not as the opposite of good, which necessarily exists for good to exist, but more as a lack of good or a lack of love. And I see people as good and their actions, not the people themselves, as evil.
I look at good vs evil from a philosophical point of view and not a religious one. Rewards & punishment for good or evil are in this world - it's what we make of it.
I look at evil not as the opposite of good, which necessarily exists for good to exist, but more as a lack of good or a lack of love. And I see people as good and their actions, not the people themselves, as evil.
Good vs. evil does not need to be taken literally. These words do not have to be how the dictionary defines them. There are many concepts of good and evil.
Though if theists are ready to accept miracles/apparitions/divine intervention as 'real' since they have been documented, should they therefore not give credence to 'satanic' (?) intervention eg demonic possession with coughing up of nails, etc. as these have also been documented by the same people who recorded the 'positive' interventions? I don't see how one can dissociate the two types of intervention. Goes back to god and satan (or whatever one wants to call them), good and evil - one goes with the other.
Comments
I said if you are in need of God he is there. I said open your heart to the fact it happened to me
instead of poo pooing and making me less of a person for believing I had one.
What I said was if you want to believe don't be to proud to ask...just ask for a miracle.
If you are in need of God just ask for him... he is there.
This not for you if the shoe doesn't fit or for others here.
But of course there is the need to put me down.
Not sure what a theists is but I'm pretty sure I'm not one yet you have lumped me with them...
generalizing. Something so many here need to do.
Just a regular person who had a miracle that changed my life and those I love for the better.
maybe it wasn't directed towards me, but since it wasn't a pm I was reading, I thought it was fine that I comment.
a theist is someone who believes in a higher power. So you are a theist. it's not an insult. that's just what it means. that is no more a generalization than saying you are a ten club member.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I also experienced a miracle in 1996. It was called No Code
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
September 28, 1996....FRONT ROW!!!
Religion has always bewildered and fascinated me. At this point, it amuses me more than it angers me. As ridiculous as it all is, I still would say there is some truth in just some in just about any religion, because at the core of any religion is an appeal to the yearnings of our souls. I consider myself a spiritual person. Why? It's simple. Because I have a soul. I can't deny that, and wouldn't ever want to. I'm not sure if every other human being has a soul, because many appear to lack one, but I'm certain that I do. I don't at all think that when my body dies, my soul will also die. I can't accept that possibility. At the same time, I can't grasp the idea that I, as a soul, will exist forever. This too is a total mindfuck.
Oh well. I'm happy to be alive.
Spirituality does not need religion or a god. It comes from within.
Same as miracles. They are not handed around by a 'supreme' being. A miracle (basically some event that one can't comprehend or explain scientifically at the time) can either be a fluke (eg the earthquake in Japan -a house is spared when others around it are completely destroyed) or come from some inner strength that one didn't know they had - a trigger of some sort made it happen. That my husband is a alive is a miracle, the medical profession said. My husband said he had an out of body experience, he saw my daughter and me and could hear our voices and he said he needed to be there for us. They used the word 'miracle' because he should have died. They used the word 'miracle' again regarding his recovery (ie he's not a vegetable). No god, no miracle, no nothing - just inner strength. Not inner strength given by god but from his will to see his daughter and be a dad for her. Oh, on a side note, out of body experience doesn't mean afterlife.
One believes what they want - I believe that religion and reliance on a supreme being is a crutch.
again you misunderstand as does redrock......it was not for you...
in that I said if you are in need of God and you both are not I take it.
I found he was there, shown he was there.
Thats not for you.
But there may be people out there that are in need of something,
searching, lost, self absorbed, unhappy, negative.
I was sharing my experience not trying to push any beliefs on anyone....
if something doesn't pertain to you, you could ignore it
I didn't read the entire thread but I believe I was one of the only ones jumped on
for my spiritual beliefs when I was just sharing my life story as others were.
As I said if for one minute you knew without a doubt divine supernatural intervention
I have experienced would you be so quick to hurt me?
And even if you don't believe what business would it be of yours?
I am happy and at peace in my knowledge and do not care what non believers think.
And if there is someone out there that can relate and get something
from my experience that is wonderful and might make their world better.
To another poster...
We all have choices that connect us together in the puzzle of life and beyond.
And it is not up to God to solve anything it is up to us.
Whether one believes in God or not we are here to learn and love everyone no matter their beliefs.
I hope that you love me and accept me as I do you.
Proud to be theist and just as proud to be a PJ fan!
They have been on my journey with me through it all!
Me, I don't have a religious bone in my body and think it's all mumbo jumbo. I can't get my head around the thought there is a God that sits around watching the appalling things that take place around this world. He can flood the planet because of the way man has become but doesn't fry Gaddafi's arse.
Just my thoughts. I have religious friends but we just don't talk about it.
No need for such drama - hurt, cruel... etc. You haven't been 'jumped on'. Though one may think you also 'jump on' those that share their 'non beliefs': "You seem incredibly pessimistic and judgmental and could use a miracle in your life." "Open your heart...".
You say divine intervention, I say 'intervention' comes within. You've decided your 'experience' was divine, my husband knows his experience was human - his strength. That's all.
Maybe if your comment about god being there for all IF we wanted, should have been worded as such.
Let's just leave this as it is.
The IF 'you all wanted him'.... he is there..... was the whole message I shared and again if its not something you can relate to why bother..unless just to put someone down.It was clear I was speaking to those in search of something not those who are not.
I was called egotistical and narrow minded but you only choose to see
what I say... not what others say to me redrock...why is that?
and yes I was hurt, no drama there, only you dismissing me and my feelings ...again ....why is that?
and being called those names when sharing a life changing event was very hurtful and why I retaliated with judgmental and pessimistic because that is exactly what it was.
please reread I said 'if you open your heart to the fact I truly had one you would not be quick to be so cruel.' not open your heart to God but the fact I believe I had a miracle so much so that I know without a doubt there is a God and an afterlife. Then I get jumped on and called names. Not pushing any views just sharing my life experience.
And redrock... It was divine supernatural intervention absolutely nothing to do with my power or strength as a human being
nothing I had to overcome... absolutely nothing human about it.
This has been so far a good interchange of ideas, the discurse between theist and atheist it's been always like this. But you have to admit that the atheist won
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
just kidding arq.... a little believers joke .... gotta keep a sense of humor going
But seriously we must remember we are all here in this world together, thats what matters
this world here and now.
Yes, I know, it is always like this, thus I try to avoid the subject because typically it goes nowhere. And, yeah, I did make the observation of the majority of those who responded...but I wasn't looking at it in terms of who 'won'. If you're 'winning', props to you.
I see what you're saying, so I thought I'd chime in.
I think the people who respond to this type of thread are the ones who have really thought about it, and are pretty sure of themselves (and hold steady on their beliefs). I, on the other hand, am in the middle sometimes. I'd say I am agnostic, but I hate to stand concrete on this one.
I think that amazing things happen all the time. Divine intervention and/or God speaking to us? I dont know.. Its all how we perceive it.
I think we can debate it -- but I need to believe most folks in here respect each others stances, but just get a little passionate sometimes.
Its all how we perceive it.
I totally agree.
I think we can debate it -- but I need to believe most folks in here respect each others stances, but just get a little passionate sometimes.[/quote]
Again, agreed. It is a passionate subject. I also need to believe that most have mutual respect and acceptance (i.e. of others' beliefs/opinions)...but some, not so much. The thread just gives me a vibe of subtle hostility...
I think it's logical. I see your logic too, but I think the difference might sometimes be how one defines these terms... heaven hell, good, bad, God, Satan. Not everyone who believes in "heaven" sees it as a physical location where you get to live the same kind of physical existence you lived on earth only with all the things you always wanted, for instance. And not everyone believes that bad people must exist for there to be good people. And maybe some people believe that this is hell.
I like to think that everyone is essentially good & will therefore go to heaven, whatever heaven may mean. I don't believe in hell, fire & brimstone, eternal punishment, or any of that.
Again, I think it's more a bashing of what people see as others' beliefs (or non-belief) being imposed upon them (and everyone).
We would probably have much more civil discourse if people would use phrases like "I believe" instead of "I know" and "I haven't seen any scientific evidence" instead of "science proves that you're wrong".
I understand that people are passionate about their beliefs (whether atheist or theist), but we should respect & leave room for the beliefs of others too. After all, none of us really knows anything for sure.
This poster believes in god and in heaven (so believes in 'reward'). I am making the assumption that it is the christian god (though I may be wrong). This god seems to dish out punishment and reward - there are numerous references to 'entering the kingdom of god' (if you haven't sinned) or being thrown in hell. There is mention of 'the beast' and fiery lakes, etc. Now of course, there is no physical place 'up there' on the fluffy clouds or 'down there' amidst flames and sulphur as, first of all, it's not your physical being that goes to those places. I guess some people may think this place is hell (or at least purgatory) and believe there is a final recompense in the afterlife should you have 'behaved' or even maybe properly repented for your 'sins' by good deeds etc. So, if 'heaven' is a reward for good behaviour, should there not be a 'punishment' for bad?
Good and evil have always been and will always be. We will each have our definition of good and evil and many philosophers have pondered on this conflict for ages without complete consensus.
What happens with this good vs. evil and 'us' depends on what we believe. As I said, the christian god punishes and rewards (again - however you wish to define these) in the afterlife. So I'm thinking if the 'good' go somewhere, the 'bad' must as well - somewhere different.
in hopes of helping my mother with her passing.
She hadn't had religion in her life although her Mother was a devout Seventh Day Adventist.
Religion far more important in her era than ours now. It was her choice not to believe.
She knew and lived with more misery, betrayal and evil than one should ever have to.
She carried a lot of guilt for choices made in her 81 years and was very frightened
of death.
So I hunted for proof and we shared many long hours on the subject.
Until she was at peace with where she was going.
When it is said that none of us knows for sure that is not what I found in my studies.
It is not what I gave to my Mother that helped her graciously leave this world.
And it is not what I know to be true for myself and those
I personally have spoken to about near death experience. Some do know.
There are many who know there is an afterlife, they walk this earth and carry the knowledge
with their very being, just as my miracle has given me.
Of course we are all given the choice to believe their experience or not.
And that can not be debated our freedom of choice and finding our own truth
and the need for that.
Our choice to believe a person who dies on the operating table yet can tell you what their dearest relative was doing thousands of miles away at that precise moment ...because they went to say goodbye in spirit.
Or the dying patient who leaves this world to be brought back 10 minutes later that can tell the attending nurses ...there is a window open on the 11th floor with a red slipper on the ledge.
These just a quick couple of examples and I must say... it makes for delightful intriguing study.
The countless documented stories of people experiencing the same near death experience
but with a personal twist.
As there is for my miracle which I have also researched and know I'm not alone.
When my Mama passed it was I who found her. It had not been long that she was gone. Minutes.
I knew she waited for me to come say goodbye. I know she was still there in spirit, I could feel her there
and I know I will see her again.
So when we say, belief is not really all that necessary, we have the ability to know, without a doubt what the reality is, and I'm not going to speak about religion, I tend not to say much about religion per say, as it's not always the best way to go about it. Not at such an early stage.
I know it's hard to believe that we can awaken from our sleep, but it's nothing but the truth. But again, don't believe it, experience it for yourself. As we so often say. It's the only way to know for sure right?
Be still and see. If you like, perhaps a look into Buddhist teachings will help you along the path. But don't get lost in it,
I guess my point is that not everyone who considers themselves to be Christian really believes that God punishes & rewards like many people interpret the Bible to say. People have numerous interpretations of religious principles and so our logic of our understanding of someone else's God isn't necessarily applicable.
True... I guess people can pick and choose which bits of religion/teachings they wish to abide by/include in their lives as it suits. A bit like picking the raisins out of your muesli if you don't like them. My mother was a staunch catholic and 'took note' of things. My father became catholic to marry my mother and really couldn't give a s**t about any god or 'teachings'.
To each their own.
I look at good vs evil from a philosophical point of view and not a religious one. Rewards & punishment for good or evil are in this world - it's what we make of it.
I look at evil not as the opposite of good, which necessarily exists for good to exist, but more as a lack of good or a lack of love. And I see people as good and their actions, not the people themselves, as evil.
Good vs. evil does not need to be taken literally. These words do not have to be how the dictionary defines them. There are many concepts of good and evil.
Though if theists are ready to accept miracles/apparitions/divine intervention as 'real' since they have been documented, should they therefore not give credence to 'satanic' (?) intervention eg demonic possession with coughing up of nails, etc. as these have also been documented by the same people who recorded the 'positive' interventions? I don't see how one can dissociate the two types of intervention. Goes back to god and satan (or whatever one wants to call them), good and evil - one goes with the other.