So, you are proposing that we allow them to have as many children that they want? Who exactly is going to pay for this?
Let me guess... your are racist?
woohoo.... No personal responsibility.
So, please tell me again why is it ok to force me to pay into the welfare system?
YES!!! Who are "we" to say "you" can't have kids simply because of your financial success?
Drugs? Abuse? YES... the state can take away the kid because he/she is in immediate danger.
Otherwise, thinking that the government should make this sort of decision is fascist, dangerous, and takes away the sort of freedoms that we've supposedly been fighting for for the past 235 years. It sounds an awful like an authoritarian position, whether it be fascist or communist.
Why is it ok for you to pay welfare? Because that is one of the basic functions of any government, along with an infrastructure, access to food and health care, and maintaing a small army to protect those things. Everything else is ancillary.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
So, you are proposing that we allow them to have as many children that they want? Who exactly is going to pay for this?
Let me guess... your are racist?
woohoo.... No personal responsibility.
So, please tell me again why is it ok to force me to pay into the welfare system?
YES!!! Who are "we" to say "you" can't have kids simply because of your financial success?
Drugs? Abuse? YES... the state can take away the kid because he/she is in immediate danger.
Otherwise, thinking that the government should make this sort of decision is fascist, dangerous, and takes away the sort of freedoms that we've supposedly been fighting for for the past 235 years. It sounds an awful like an authoritarian position, whether it be fascist or communist.
Why is it ok for you to pay welfare? Because that is one of the basic functions of any government, along with an infrastructure, access to food and health care, and maintaing a small army to protect those things. Everything else is ancillary.
Its not about financial success... Its about being able to providing basic fucking needs for your fucking kids. I see this is lost on you because it seems you are advocating for poor children to fail because your afraid to give restrictions to a dependant who does not pay into the system.
Its not a fascist decision of the GOV. because the Gov. is paying for their lifestyle. They should be allowed to put restrictions on what you do if they are giving you tax payers money. Is it fascits that the gov. makes their workers work 40 hours a week?
Why is it a basic function for me to pay into the system the only benefits a certin group of people who don't pay anything back into the system, yet its not a basic function for them? Since they can't do it monetarily mybe they could do society a favor by not having fucking kids they can't afford to raise/cloath/feed, etc...
But it doesn't always work as a method to avoid pregnancy, we have 4 kids and 2 (the 1st and last) walk this Earth as living proff that it doesn't work!
:shock:
If it were to happen i would take it as a sign from God that it was ment to be.
well, we're obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum (sympathetic v. Darwinian). I'm reading through this again and thinking that I'm advocating for 100% entitlement rights are you're advocating 0%, none.
I'm not actually... there has to be checks and measures to make sure the system isn't abused and that it doesn't encourage behavior that anyone would agree isn't ideal (having kids so the government can pay for them).
Thing is... we do have those checks and measures and the "safety hammock" as Rush coined it doesn't exist, as far as I can tell. If it does, then reform needs to be taken.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Wanting to have sex is a naturally occurring urge; it’s not based on income or the fact that someone may get pregnant. However,
--if it was just about money, why do people keep mentally or physically disabled children?
--if it was just about the money, why do people keep children with chronic/terminal conditions?
--If it’s just about money why do working people who struggle financially have more children?
--if it’s just about money why do politicians cut education and social programs that would help prevent the so-called irresponsible pregnancies?
--if it’s just about money why do politicians push laws to force women to have a child?
--if it’s just about money why do religious institutions and organizations oppose programs that would help prevent the so-called irresponsible pregnancies? Instead they’re policy is to abstain from sex before marriage; funny when you think of how God and in God’s name women were passed around like free beer for the sole purpose to bear children.
--if it’s just about money, make it easy to get abortions since it’s cheaper than raising a child; then people with issues wouldn’t have to complain about how ‘their’ taxes go to welfare recipients.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
WE have no right to judge someone for having a kid with little previous financial success. I guess you could conceivably judge if you didn't ever have sex until you were financially secure (whatever that means).
If you can't afford basic needs for yourself (food,clothes,shelter,shoes, etc.) then you should not be having children.
Ensuring that you don't have children means not having sex. There's no two ways about it. So you are saying, then, that if you can't afford basic needs for yourself (and potential children), you have no right to have sex, right?
If so, noting the quote from he still stand above, I want to know if you practice what you preach and if you are committed to practicing this if your income ever drops. If not, then you're a hypocrite and you can't expect others to follow guidelines for "personal responsibility" that you, yourself, would not follow.
well, we're obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum (sympathetic v. Darwinian). I'm reading through this again and thinking that I'm advocating for 100% entitlement rights are you're advocating 0%, none.
I'm not actually... there has to be checks and measures to make sure the system isn't abused and that it doesn't encourage behavior that anyone would agree isn't ideal (having kids so the government can pay for them).
Thing is... we do have those checks and measures and the "safety hammock" as Rush coined it doesn't exist, as far as I can tell. If it does, then reform needs to be taken.
They are given something that is not theirs without any consequences for their actions.
What checks and measures do we have, they get "bonuses" with each kid.
Do you have children of your own.
Its hard for me to just sit back and watch people use having children as a way to get more money/foodstams/entitlements. I do have children and it really breaks my heart that there are children out there my kids age who's only meals are the ones they get at school, or who's only clothes are the ones the we donate. I see children who are my kids age (4) roaming the streets when I am driving home late firday night. (when i say late i mean 11pm and later) People on here think I am anti-poor but thats not the case, I understand reality and human nature, and your not going to change people by throwing money at them with no consequences. In reality your just continually making those people more and more depandant and their children grow up the same way.
Ensuring that you don't have children means not having sex. There's no two ways about it. So you are saying, then, that if you can't afford basic needs for yourself (and potential children), you have no right to have sex, right?
If so, noting the quote from he still stand above, I want to know if you practice what you preach and if you are committed to practicing this if your income ever drops. If not, then you're a hypocrite and you can't expect others to follow guidelines for "personal responsibility" that you, yourself, would not follow.
Ensuring that you don't have a car wreck mean not driving a car. Am I doing this right?
I wasn't aware that people got pregnant every time they had sex? please reference link.
I practice what i preach and its not very hard either. Its called living below your means and saving for a rainy day.
Heijam, your disdain for the "poor" is mind boggling. The pseudo-American dream for all to base their lives around, which consists of a family of 4, a house, 2.5 kids and 2 cars is environmentally, socially and culturally harmful to ourselves and the world as a whole. But I guess you have it all figured out with sex restrictions based on W-2's? haha
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
For those of you who copped out by saying to use contraception, you're missing the point. NO CONTRACEPTION IS 100% EFFECTIVE. None. Period. (Condoms & pulling out particularly.) For instance, I know of a couple right now where the woman had her tubes tied AND the man had a vasectomy and they are now pregnant with twins!
So let's get serious and hear a number - especially from you, HeidiJam.
I don't get the number thing...very unrealistic. :?
28 years ago when I got pregnant we had jack shit, but we were self sufficient.
That is the answer again...do not have children you yourself can not afford to raise.
Be prepared to make sacrifices for your child if you are living paycheck to paycheck
before the little one comes. We made many, and we scrimped for years,
JB working as many as 3 jobs at a time.
If you are living on government money
it's not the right time to bring another mouth to feed into the world.
Wait until you have secure employment.
As a good parent you will want to give your child the very best.
Use multiple methods of birth control for a more trustworthy result or other means of intimacy besides intercourse. This until you find gainful employment. Be responsible.
If you don't think you will ever be able to provide for a child yourself....
no prospects or even the desire to be off of govt checks... get fixed....
because it is unfair to ask others to pay for your child when they are having trouble making ends meet for their own....and working 3 jobs to do it!
Sounds harsh to some....
but kids having kids having kids has to stop somewhere.
And living at the expense of another is very wrong and irresponsible.
well, we're obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum (sympathetic v. Darwinian). I'm reading through this again and thinking that I'm advocating for 100% entitlement rights are you're advocating 0%, none.
I'm not actually... there has to be checks and measures to make sure the system isn't abused and that it doesn't encourage behavior that anyone would agree isn't ideal (having kids so the government can pay for them).
Thing is... we do have those checks and measures and the "safety hammock" as Rush coined it doesn't exist, as far as I can tell. If it does, then reform needs to be taken.
They are given something that is not theirs without any consequences for their actions.
What checks and measures do we have, they get "bonuses" with each kid.
Do you have children of your own.
Its hard for me to just sit back and watch people use having children as a way to get more money/foodstams/entitlements. I do have children and it really breaks my heart that there are children out there my kids age who's only meals are the ones they get at school, or who's only clothes are the ones the we donate. I see children who are my kids age (4) roaming the streets when I am driving home late firday night. (when i say late i mean 11pm and later) People on here think I am anti-poor but thats not the case, I understand reality and human nature, and your not going to change people by throwing money at them with no consequences. In reality your just continually making those people more and more depandant and their children grow up the same way.
Well you ARE anti-poor. You go beyond saying you don't think government assistance is the best way to help poor people, making sweeping generalizations that all poor people are lazy, freeloading, irresponsible, bad parents who have kids for the extra assistance money. Sounds pretty anti-poor to me. And I would suggest that you don't actually understand reality and human nature if you really believe that people base their reproductive decisions on some asinine notion that having more kids will increase their bank accounts. Have YOU ever been on government assistance? Then you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
But this thread isn't about that. It's about your idea that people without a certain amount of money have no right to make love to their wives.
Ensuring that you don't have children means not having sex. There's no two ways about it. So you are saying, then, that if you can't afford basic needs for yourself (and potential children), you have no right to have sex, right?
If so, noting the quote from he still stand above, I want to know if you practice what you preach and if you are committed to practicing this if your income ever drops. If not, then you're a hypocrite and you can't expect others to follow guidelines for "personal responsibility" that you, yourself, would not follow.
Ensuring that you don't have a car wreck mean not driving a car. Am I doing this right?
I wasn't aware that people got pregnant every time they had sex? please reference link.
I practice what i preach and its not very hard either. Its called living below your means and saving for a rainy day.
No, you're not doing this right. Of course we all know that people don't get pregnant EVERY time they have sex. We also know that there is absolutely NO way to completely ensure that you or your partner DON'T get pregnant any given time you have sex (if you have functioning reproductive organs). NO WAY. Whatsoever. If you know of a foolproof contraceptive, please enlighten us. So, every time you have sex you are risking pregnancy. Are you saying it's responsible to risk pregnancy? Because I thought your position was that anyone who gets pregnant who can't afford a child (both at the time and for at least 18 years into the future) is irresponsible. Which is it?
No, living below your means and saving for a rainy day is NOT practicing what you preach. You preach pretty clearly that you should not have children (i.e. have sex) unless you have sufficient funds to care for them until adulthood. You make no concessions for people who lived below their means & saved for a rainy day but fell upon hard times. And you certainly don't make any concession for people who are not able to live below their means & save for a rainy day.
So, again, I want to know... if you fell upon hard times, would you or would you not stop having sex with your wife until you got a good job & built up your savings again? And how high would the balance have to be for risking pregnancy to not be irresponsible? Because all you're saying now is that the question doesn't pertain to you because, since you're such a more responsible person than everyone else, you will never, ever be in a position where you can't afford to care for more children.
For those of you who copped out by saying to use contraception, you're missing the point. NO CONTRACEPTION IS 100% EFFECTIVE. None. Period. (Condoms & pulling out particularly.) For instance, I know of a couple right now where the woman had her tubes tied AND the man had a vasectomy and they are now pregnant with twins!
So let's get serious and hear a number - especially from you, HeidiJam.
I don't get the number thing...very unrealistic. :?
28 years ago when I got pregnant we had jack shit, but we were self sufficient.
That is the answer again...do not have children you yourself can not afford to raise.
Be prepared to make sacrifices for your child if you are living paycheck to paycheck
before the little one comes. We made many, and we scrimped for years,
JB working as many as 3 jobs at a time.
If you are living on government money
it's not the right time to bring another mouth to feed into the world.
Wait until you have secure employment.
As a good parent you will want to give your child the very best.
Use multiple methods of birth control for a more trustworthy result or other means of intimacy besides intercourse. This until you find gainful employment. Be responsible.
If you don't think you will ever be able to provide for a child yourself....
no prospects or even the desire to be off of govt checks... get fixed....
because it is unfair to ask others to pay for your child when they are having trouble making ends meet for their own....and working 3 jobs to do it!
Sounds harsh to some....
but kids having kids having kids has to stop somewhere.
And living at the expense of another is very wrong and irresponsible.
You do know that using multiple forms of birth control or getting fixed doesn't actually guarantee that you won't get pregnant, right? So then do the people who were having sex but using contraception when they got pregnant get let off the hook from your irresponsibility list? If so, do they have to be using specific methods of contraception for you to not accuse them of being irresponsible?
For those of you who copped out by saying to use contraception, you're missing the point. NO CONTRACEPTION IS 100% EFFECTIVE. None. Period. (Condoms & pulling out particularly.) For instance, I know of a couple right now where the woman had her tubes tied AND the man had a vasectomy and they are now pregnant with twins!
So let's get serious and hear a number - especially from you, HeidiJam.
I don't get the number thing...very unrealistic. :?
28 years ago when I got pregnant we had jack shit, but we were self sufficient.
That is the answer again...do not have children you yourself can not afford to raise.
Be prepared to make sacrifices for your child if you are living paycheck to paycheck
before the little one comes. We made many, and we scrimped for years,
JB working as many as 3 jobs at a time.
If you are living on government money
it's not the right time to bring another mouth to feed into the world.
Wait until you have secure employment.
As a good parent you will want to give your child the very best.
Use multiple methods of birth control for a more trustworthy result or other means of intimacy besides intercourse. This until you find gainful employment. Be responsible.
If you don't think you will ever be able to provide for a child yourself....
no prospects or even the desire to be off of govt checks... get fixed....
because it is unfair to ask others to pay for your child when they are having trouble making ends meet for their own....and working 3 jobs to do it!
Sounds harsh to some....
but kids having kids having kids has to stop somewhere.
And living at the expense of another is very wrong and irresponsible.
You do know that using multiple forms of birth control or getting fixed doesn't actually guarantee that you won't get pregnant, right? So then do the people who were having sex but using contraception when they got pregnant get let off the hook from your irresponsibility list? If so, do they have to be using specific methods of contraception for you to not accuse them of being irresponsible?
Child there are no guarantees in this world only probabilities.
Some people are on welfare and raise their kids this way. Whole families. We see them everyday.
Mom, Grandma, Great Grandma and 15 year old is pregnant starting another generation.
This is irresponsible yet you start a thread making what point again? What if a responsible person gets pg?
Responsible people do all they can to keep from getting pregnant and bringing children into the world that they must rely on the govt to support. Thats pretty clear.
Irresponsible people have generations on aid and are bogging down the country to a point we can not even provide a good life for them anymore.
Not a good education, not a good home, not a good environment, not a good country.
If all those generations became responsible think of all the future monies available that could actually go to helping the children that are already here.
Being responsible is a choice just as being irresponsible is but you already knew that.
Time to get people making the right choice for themselves, their children and our country.
But it doesn't always work as a method to avoid pregnancy, we have 4 kids and 2 (the 1st and last) walk this Earth as living proff that it doesn't work!
:shock:
If it were to happen i would take it as a sign from God that it was ment to be.
All were gifts...the first sent us down the road that has lead to a wonderful life, and the last was the piece we never knew our family was missing until he arrived and completed it.
Heijam, your disdain for the "poor" is mind boggling. The pseudo-American dream for all to base their lives around, which consists of a family of 4, a house, 2.5 kids and 2 cars is environmentally, socially and culturally harmful to ourselves and the world as a whole. But I guess you have it all figured out with sex restrictions based on W-2's? haha
Your disdain for poor childrens future is mind boggling. You seem to have no issues throwing innocent children to the wolves so as long as your precious poor have no consequences for their actions. Bravo buddy, bravo...
since I am clearly not getting the logic in this thread, will some one please explain this to me:
How can you be perfectly fine with a couple having children, who can't afford to feed/cloath/shelter themselves let alone another child?
please someone answer this question for me.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
15 yrs ago i was doing nothin but partyn and listening to pj...me personally, i wanted more in life but couldn't break the cycle, so in my dazed and confused thinking, i thankfully had a child knowing it would "wake me up" so to speak. Can't speak for everyone but it worked out great for me...I woke up, grew up, had another kid, got married to the mother of the 2, moved up the ranks of my job, now successful, happily married, kids are my best friends and still get to listen to PJ non stop, but only party when... its...we'll lets just say i still have fun here and there!!! Doesn't really answer your question...just wanted to share...
Doesn't answer the question no but I love your story and I think there is a lesson there.
Children are life changing for some people...we all wish it was so for all children,
that is what the innocent deserve.
Unfortunately that's not the case sometimes, far from a perfect world.
I personally believe in people being responsible for themselves
and their children financially.
I was raised like this, my children were and I'm assuming their children will be.
Above and beyond that, some parents want better for their children then they had.
Some parents raise children who have children when they are still children themselves
and that cycle continues.
History does repeat itself
I'm going with one of the posters above
I'm going with ....
being responsible enough to use a condom and foam and a diaphragm....
quite effective at preventing pregnancy which really is the answer.
Use protection if you can't afford to raise a child on your own.
If you can't afford protection each time you want to have sex
avoid fornication and rely on other forms of gratification.
Not necessarliy a bad thing
Even using condoms, foam, diaphragm, pill male and female doesn't gaurantee squat. The only thing that does 100% is NOT having sex and we as a country have a hard time doing that. Just take a look at poster girl Bristol Palin, now she was irresponsible. Foolishly considering I believe she and her family had a stance for abstinence, it didn't work I gather.
So does someone who uses various contraceptives yet sill gets pregnant are they put in your catagories of being irresponsible?
Peace
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*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
since I am clearly not getting the logic in this thread, will some one please explain this to me:
How can you be perfectly fine with a couple having children, who can't afford to feed/cloath/shelter themselves let alone another child?
please someone answer this question for me.
Sorry heidi i cant... Im too busy laughing my arse off.
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
since I am clearly not getting the logic in this thread, will some one please explain this to me:
How can you be perfectly fine with a couple having children, who can't afford to feed/cloath/shelter themselves let alone another child?
please someone answer this question for me.
NO ONE has EVER said they think this is a great idea. Much/most of the time not even the people having the children think this is ideal. But HALF of the pregnancies in this country are unintended - at which point abortion the only option to prevent having a child, and I'm pretty sure you don't support abortion for all poor people with unintended pregnancies. So what is your solution if it's not for poor people to never have sex?
What we have said is that it's not your place to sit up on your privileged high horse & judge. If YOU actually give a rat's ass about the future of these children whose interest you claim is at the root of your opinions, why don't you take all that energy you spend condemning them & their parents & use it to actually try to help the situation? Instead of talking shit about how people shouldn't get pregnant, why don't you concern yourself with the systems issues that make it harder for some people to get reliable contraception, for instance? Instead of always saying "Who can I judge & proclaim to be better than?" why don't you say "What can I do to make this situation better?"
I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone they can't have children unless of course the children would be in some sort of danger in the hands of that parent. I do however think that people should think long and hard about it before jumping in. We didn't have much money but I like to think that all 3 of my siblings grew up to be pretty well-adjusted, hard-working people. I guess I think to myself, in this day and age, there are a very small minority of people who could ever afford to give their children absolutely everything. Life is just too damn expensive nowadays. It's good and healthy for a child to know the meaning of a dollar and to appreciate what he/she has. That being said, I still think people just need to realise that it is hard and it is expensive and it is not a great idea to bring children into a drastically dire financial situation.
We had our little chicken last year and we are by no means rich but we knew we could take care of her and give her lots and lots of love. She gets everything she needs plus a couple of little pressies now and again. I think that's all you really need.
“ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)
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Why do we have this though that we have no right to tell people what they can and can't do, when they are using everybody elses money to support their lifestyle when they don't even pay back into the same system? I see welfare people like I see children. They are dependants and can't live or provide for themselves on their own.They need direction and need to take responsibilities for their actions. Being given money/clothes/shelter and letting them do whatever they want is not a good of helping them. For those you that are for not putting any restrictions on welfare recipiants, use the gov. template and see how that works on your teenagers.
You ever heard Bob Dylan's song ' Like a Rolling Stone'?
I'm not saying that I hope the lesson in this songs lyrics ever applies to you, but it would certainly be interesting if it did.
Once upon a time you dressed so fine,
Threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you ?
People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall,"
You thought they were all a’kiddin' you.
You used to laugh about
Everybody that was hangin' out.
Now you don't talk so loud,
Now you don't seem so proud,
About having to be scrounging your next meal.
How does it feel ?
How does it feel ?
To be without a home ?
Like a complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
Aw, you've gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely,
But you know you only used to get “juiced” in it.
Nobody’s ever taught you how to live out on the street,
And now you're gonna have to get used to it.
You say you never compromise
With a mystery tramp, but now you realize
He's not selling any alibis
As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
And say, “Do you want to make a deal?
How does it feel ?
How does it feel ?
To be on your own ?
With no direction home ?
A complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
Aw, you never turned around to see the frowns
On the jugglers and the clowns
When they all did tricks for you.
You never understood that it ain't no good,
You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you.
You used to ride on a chrome horse with your diplomat
Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat.
Ain't it hard when you discover that
He really wasn't where it's at
After he took from you everything he could steal ?
How does it feel ?
How does it feel ?
To have ya’ on your own ?
With no direction home ?
Like a complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
Aw, princess on the steeple and all the pretty people
They're all drinkin', thinkin' that they’ve got it made.
Exchanging all precious gifts,
But you'd better take your diamond ring, you'd better pawn it babe.
You used to be so amused
At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used.
Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse.
When you ain’t got nothing, you’ve got nothing to lose
You're invisible now, you’ve got no secrets to conceal.
How does it feel ?
Aw, how does it feel ?
To be on your own ?
With no direction home ?
Like a complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
No, I don't mean to offend any more than you do. I'm just loving that I didn't have to become an old lady for things to make sense.
You have many years to go to learn much....
And yes you always mean to offend me that is obvious
this because you are not grown up enough to let go of a grudge.
Time will heal that quality hopefully.
Comments
YES!!! Who are "we" to say "you" can't have kids simply because of your financial success?
Drugs? Abuse? YES... the state can take away the kid because he/she is in immediate danger.
Otherwise, thinking that the government should make this sort of decision is fascist, dangerous, and takes away the sort of freedoms that we've supposedly been fighting for for the past 235 years. It sounds an awful like an authoritarian position, whether it be fascist or communist.
Why is it ok for you to pay welfare? Because that is one of the basic functions of any government, along with an infrastructure, access to food and health care, and maintaing a small army to protect those things. Everything else is ancillary.
Its not a fascist decision of the GOV. because the Gov. is paying for their lifestyle. They should be allowed to put restrictions on what you do if they are giving you tax payers money. Is it fascits that the gov. makes their workers work 40 hours a week?
Why is it a basic function for me to pay into the system the only benefits a certin group of people who don't pay anything back into the system, yet its not a basic function for them? Since they can't do it monetarily mybe they could do society a favor by not having fucking kids they can't afford to raise/cloath/feed, etc...
:shock:
If it were to happen i would take it as a sign from God that it was ment to be.
I'm not actually... there has to be checks and measures to make sure the system isn't abused and that it doesn't encourage behavior that anyone would agree isn't ideal (having kids so the government can pay for them).
Thing is... we do have those checks and measures and the "safety hammock" as Rush coined it doesn't exist, as far as I can tell. If it does, then reform needs to be taken.
--if it was just about money, why do people keep mentally or physically disabled children?
--if it was just about the money, why do people keep children with chronic/terminal conditions?
--If it’s just about money why do working people who struggle financially have more children?
--if it’s just about money why do politicians cut education and social programs that would help prevent the so-called irresponsible pregnancies?
--if it’s just about money why do politicians push laws to force women to have a child?
--if it’s just about money why do religious institutions and organizations oppose programs that would help prevent the so-called irresponsible pregnancies? Instead they’re policy is to abstain from sex before marriage; funny when you think of how God and in God’s name women were passed around like free beer for the sole purpose to bear children.
--if it’s just about money, make it easy to get abortions since it’s cheaper than raising a child; then people with issues wouldn’t have to complain about how ‘their’ taxes go to welfare recipients.
Exactly.
Ensuring that you don't have children means not having sex. There's no two ways about it. So you are saying, then, that if you can't afford basic needs for yourself (and potential children), you have no right to have sex, right?
If so, noting the quote from he still stand above, I want to know if you practice what you preach and if you are committed to practicing this if your income ever drops. If not, then you're a hypocrite and you can't expect others to follow guidelines for "personal responsibility" that you, yourself, would not follow.
What checks and measures do we have, they get "bonuses" with each kid.
Do you have children of your own.
Its hard for me to just sit back and watch people use having children as a way to get more money/foodstams/entitlements. I do have children and it really breaks my heart that there are children out there my kids age who's only meals are the ones they get at school, or who's only clothes are the ones the we donate. I see children who are my kids age (4) roaming the streets when I am driving home late firday night. (when i say late i mean 11pm and later) People on here think I am anti-poor but thats not the case, I understand reality and human nature, and your not going to change people by throwing money at them with no consequences. In reality your just continually making those people more and more depandant and their children grow up the same way.
I wasn't aware that people got pregnant every time they had sex? please reference link.
I practice what i preach and its not very hard either. Its called living below your means and saving for a rainy day.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't get the number thing...very unrealistic. :?
28 years ago when I got pregnant we had jack shit, but we were self sufficient.
That is the answer again...do not have children you yourself can not afford to raise.
Be prepared to make sacrifices for your child if you are living paycheck to paycheck
before the little one comes. We made many, and we scrimped for years,
JB working as many as 3 jobs at a time.
If you are living on government money
it's not the right time to bring another mouth to feed into the world.
Wait until you have secure employment.
As a good parent you will want to give your child the very best.
Use multiple methods of birth control for a more trustworthy result or other means of intimacy besides intercourse. This until you find gainful employment. Be responsible.
If you don't think you will ever be able to provide for a child yourself....
no prospects or even the desire to be off of govt checks... get fixed....
because it is unfair to ask others to pay for your child when they are having trouble making ends meet for their own....and working 3 jobs to do it!
Sounds harsh to some....
but kids having kids having kids has to stop somewhere.
And living at the expense of another is very wrong and irresponsible.
Well you ARE anti-poor. You go beyond saying you don't think government assistance is the best way to help poor people, making sweeping generalizations that all poor people are lazy, freeloading, irresponsible, bad parents who have kids for the extra assistance money. Sounds pretty anti-poor to me. And I would suggest that you don't actually understand reality and human nature if you really believe that people base their reproductive decisions on some asinine notion that having more kids will increase their bank accounts. Have YOU ever been on government assistance? Then you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
But this thread isn't about that. It's about your idea that people without a certain amount of money have no right to make love to their wives.
No, you're not doing this right. Of course we all know that people don't get pregnant EVERY time they have sex. We also know that there is absolutely NO way to completely ensure that you or your partner DON'T get pregnant any given time you have sex (if you have functioning reproductive organs). NO WAY. Whatsoever. If you know of a foolproof contraceptive, please enlighten us. So, every time you have sex you are risking pregnancy. Are you saying it's responsible to risk pregnancy? Because I thought your position was that anyone who gets pregnant who can't afford a child (both at the time and for at least 18 years into the future) is irresponsible. Which is it?
No, living below your means and saving for a rainy day is NOT practicing what you preach. You preach pretty clearly that you should not have children (i.e. have sex) unless you have sufficient funds to care for them until adulthood. You make no concessions for people who lived below their means & saved for a rainy day but fell upon hard times. And you certainly don't make any concession for people who are not able to live below their means & save for a rainy day.
So, again, I want to know... if you fell upon hard times, would you or would you not stop having sex with your wife until you got a good job & built up your savings again? And how high would the balance have to be for risking pregnancy to not be irresponsible? Because all you're saying now is that the question doesn't pertain to you because, since you're such a more responsible person than everyone else, you will never, ever be in a position where you can't afford to care for more children.
You do know that using multiple forms of birth control or getting fixed doesn't actually guarantee that you won't get pregnant, right? So then do the people who were having sex but using contraception when they got pregnant get let off the hook from your irresponsibility list? If so, do they have to be using specific methods of contraception for you to not accuse them of being irresponsible?
Child there are no guarantees in this world only probabilities.
Some people are on welfare and raise their kids this way. Whole families. We see them everyday.
Mom, Grandma, Great Grandma and 15 year old is pregnant starting another generation.
This is irresponsible yet you start a thread making what point again? What if a responsible person gets pg?
Responsible people do all they can to keep from getting pregnant and bringing children into the world that they must rely on the govt to support. Thats pretty clear.
Irresponsible people have generations on aid and are bogging down the country to a point we can not even provide a good life for them anymore.
Not a good education, not a good home, not a good environment, not a good country.
If all those generations became responsible think of all the future monies available that could actually go to helping the children that are already here.
Being responsible is a choice just as being irresponsible is but you already knew that.
Time to get people making the right choice for themselves, their children and our country.
All were gifts...the first sent us down the road that has lead to a wonderful life, and the last was the piece we never knew our family was missing until he arrived and completed it.
How can you be perfectly fine with a couple having children, who can't afford to feed/cloath/shelter themselves let alone another child?
please someone answer this question for me.
Even using condoms, foam, diaphragm, pill male and female doesn't gaurantee squat. The only thing that does 100% is NOT having sex and we as a country have a hard time doing that. Just take a look at poster girl Bristol Palin, now she was irresponsible. Foolishly considering I believe she and her family had a stance for abstinence, it didn't work I gather.
So does someone who uses various contraceptives yet sill gets pregnant are they put in your catagories of being irresponsible?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Sorry heidi i cant... Im too busy laughing my arse off.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
NO ONE has EVER said they think this is a great idea. Much/most of the time not even the people having the children think this is ideal. But HALF of the pregnancies in this country are unintended - at which point abortion the only option to prevent having a child, and I'm pretty sure you don't support abortion for all poor people with unintended pregnancies. So what is your solution if it's not for poor people to never have sex?
What we have said is that it's not your place to sit up on your privileged high horse & judge. If YOU actually give a rat's ass about the future of these children whose interest you claim is at the root of your opinions, why don't you take all that energy you spend condemning them & their parents & use it to actually try to help the situation? Instead of talking shit about how people shouldn't get pregnant, why don't you concern yourself with the systems issues that make it harder for some people to get reliable contraception, for instance? Instead of always saying "Who can I judge & proclaim to be better than?" why don't you say "What can I do to make this situation better?"
Is someone feeling a bit insecure about her senior citizen status today?
We had our little chicken last year and we are by no means rich but we knew we could take care of her and give her lots and lots of love. She gets everything she needs plus a couple of little pressies now and again. I think that's all you really need.
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
annual Expenses for the kid (college not included)
9,768
http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raisi ... calculator
Avg. cost Cost of living in the US
25,800
http://www.leavingthefolks.com/cost.php
You should be able to save 20% of your after tax income
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/ ... -you-save/
9768 + 25800 = 35568
35568 is 80% of your aftertax income
35568/.80 = 44460 is your after tax income
Before tax that income would be:
$52,068 (assuming no state tax, filing married, 2 fed allowances)
http://www.paycheckcity.com/netpaycalc/ ... ulator.asp
You ever heard Bob Dylan's song ' Like a Rolling Stone'?
I'm not saying that I hope the lesson in this songs lyrics ever applies to you, but it would certainly be interesting if it did.
Once upon a time you dressed so fine,
Threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you ?
People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall,"
You thought they were all a’kiddin' you.
You used to laugh about
Everybody that was hangin' out.
Now you don't talk so loud,
Now you don't seem so proud,
About having to be scrounging your next meal.
How does it feel ?
How does it feel ?
To be without a home ?
Like a complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
Aw, you've gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely,
But you know you only used to get “juiced” in it.
Nobody’s ever taught you how to live out on the street,
And now you're gonna have to get used to it.
You say you never compromise
With a mystery tramp, but now you realize
He's not selling any alibis
As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
And say, “Do you want to make a deal?
How does it feel ?
How does it feel ?
To be on your own ?
With no direction home ?
A complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
Aw, you never turned around to see the frowns
On the jugglers and the clowns
When they all did tricks for you.
You never understood that it ain't no good,
You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you.
You used to ride on a chrome horse with your diplomat
Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat.
Ain't it hard when you discover that
He really wasn't where it's at
After he took from you everything he could steal ?
How does it feel ?
How does it feel ?
To have ya’ on your own ?
With no direction home ?
Like a complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
Aw, princess on the steeple and all the pretty people
They're all drinkin', thinkin' that they’ve got it made.
Exchanging all precious gifts,
But you'd better take your diamond ring, you'd better pawn it babe.
You used to be so amused
At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used.
Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse.
When you ain’t got nothing, you’ve got nothing to lose
You're invisible now, you’ve got no secrets to conceal.
How does it feel ?
Aw, how does it feel ?
To be on your own ?
With no direction home ?
Like a complete unknown ?
Like a rolling stone ?
I'm loving being a senior finally it all makes sense...child
Awesome. :thumbup: And thanks for the online resources!
No, I don't mean to offend any more than you do.
And yes you always mean to offend me that is obvious
this because you are not grown up enough to let go of a grudge.
Time will heal that quality hopefully.
Enjoy your path