Sister is in a Abusive relationship ...

_

pandora wrote:

_ wrote:

pandora wrote:

this isn't part B right? ....you left out the option that he crawls into the nearest sewer and bleeds to death...
sent back to hell from which he came allowing the innocent to live free not in fear

that sounds nothing like your option B to me

cause in my survey its option C and he's obviously a dead piece of shit and will never hurt anyone ever again

Yes, it's still option B. You can't be 100% sure that you can control every violent situation. This is not the movies. You are still taking the risk that things don't go exactly as you planned and he ends up living, only to be more likely to kill your sister.

ah but in the movies he lives and wears a mask and goes on a rampage
more likely in real life as I said first strike to your loved one the rules are set.
not acceptable...no tippy toeing around
his own medicine he gets

he'll move on to an easier victim

it's all about victimizing and controlling if he can't control he'll find an easier prey

your scenario there is more time to get fixated on the victim..take over her life...make her dependent

then he will not leave and if she gets strong enough to try to get herself free if he was gonna kill he'll hunt her down and do it because that is much worse to have her decide to leave.
Much better a strong male presence tells him to move along at first strike.
Families must protect each other.

First of all, you're contradicting yourself. You just said in your last post that he would/should be KILLED. That was your justification for putting your sister's life in further danger - that it wouldn't be in further danger because he would be dead. Now you're saying he'll be alive to move on to another victim. That takes us back to the original point - you're making the decision to possibly cause greater risk to your sister's life.

Secondly, please show us, as has been asked already, where all (or even any) of the experts on domestic violence agree that your plan is what's best for the victim. Because that's what we all want here - what's best for the victim. If your plan were really the best course of action, this is what would be happening.

Once again, you make it sound just like the movies - like you or whatever tough guy would be sure to be in complete control of the situation. This is just the kind of attitude that gets innocent people killed and I, for one, would feel less safe (and less respected) if I were being abused and my family behaved this way. Now that g under p has given us the opportunity to see violence from the perspective of someone who is an expert in the subject, I think I'll take his advice about how these situations can turn out regardless of how tough someone thinks he is.

g under p

pandora wrote:

_ wrote:

pandora wrote:

this isn't part B right? ....you left out the option that he crawls into the nearest sewer and bleeds to death...
sent back to hell from which he came allowing the innocent to live free not in fear

that sounds nothing like your option B to me

cause in my survey its option C and he's obviously a dead piece of shit and will never hurt anyone ever again

Yes, it's still option B. You can't be 100% sure that you can control every violent situation. This is not the movies. You are still taking the risk that things don't go exactly as you planned and he ends up living, only to be more likely to kill your sister.

ah but in the movies he lives and wears a mask and goes on a rampage
more likely in real life as I said first strike to your loved one the rules are set.
not acceptable...no tippy toeing around
his own medicine he gets

he'll move on to an easier victim

it's all about victimizing and controlling if he can't control he'll find an easier prey

your scenario there is more time to get fixated on the victim..take over her life...make her dependent

then he will not leave and if she gets strong enough to try to get herself free if he was gonna kill he'll hunt her down and do it because that is much worse to have her decide to leave.
Much better a strong male presence tells him to move along at first strike.
Families must protect each other.

It's not acceptable whether it's the first strike or the last. I'll ask you in these DV situations do you or anyone else ever find out or are told on the *first strike*?

Just yesterday I found out a cousin of mine was abused through hair pulling and slaps. This is a college professor, BU/Harvard graduate, own her home outright, independent woman with an autistic child. Seems easy to tell someone or just kick him out of her own house. Even though engaged to him she did absolutely nothing and said nothing at the time. She spoke up only after he dissappeared when a warrant was sent out for his arrest for an unrelated incident.

My research in this matter continues....what I'm saying is it's not always so simple to know or find out when that *first strike* is going to come across your ears. You will hear it many times over the victim has to be the one to step forward when they need DV help even from her own family.

peace

pandora

prism wrote:

you do realize the fact that by the time the first strike comes he's already been mentally/ emotionally abusing & controlling her for a very looong time. by that point she's so pyschologically beat down & embarrassed that she will NOT tell her family that he's has been hitting her.

that's why women become so adept at covering the bruises or making excuses for them when family members confront her about it. oh it's nothing...silly me, i tripped on the steps....or yeah it's hot but i love wearing this hoodie...

the family only finds out when she can no longer explain away or hide the physical marks, her change of demeanor & withdrawl from friends/family anymore

not in the op's case, she has hope and the family acted quickly and got her to grandpas
I don't think this girl will stay with this guy. She'll be one of the lucky ones
whose family acted quickly,hopefully.

not in my sisters case either

many DV cases begin with a loss of temper that escalates
and that often first shows in the early part of relationships
and often family members do know or suspect, but they are afraid.

What we are doing to conquer this injustice to women is not working, obviously.

The abuser continues because we as a society let him. We are afraid of him and what he may do to a victim,
when he is already doing it.

Maybe you don't like vigilantism...
I'm more inclined to say use the power of choice God gave us
to protect the people we love, most especially the children.

In my opinion classic abusers are worse than serial killers, worse than the thug who kills for a wallet,
they are pure evil and they get away with what they do. And teach a new generation of bullies and abusers.

I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.

_

Real men don't endanger the lives of the people they love because they're incapable of or unwilling to resolve problems without violence. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

g under p

pandora wrote:

prism wrote:

you do realize the fact that by the time the first strike comes he's already been mentally/ emotionally abusing & controlling her for a very looong time. by that point she's so pyschologically beat down & embarrassed that she will NOT tell her family that he's has been hitting her.

that's why women become so adept at covering the bruises or making excuses for them when family members confront her about it. oh it's nothing...silly me, i tripped on the steps....or yeah it's hot but i love wearing this hoodie...

the family only finds out when she can no longer explain away or hide the physical marks, her change of demeanor & withdrawl from friends/family anymore

not in the op's case, she has hope and the family acted quickly and got her to grandpas
I don't think this girl will stay with this guy. She'll be one of the lucky ones
whose family acted quickly,hopefully.

not in my sisters case either

many DV cases begin with a loss of temper that escalates
and that often first shows in the early part of relationships
and often family members do know or suspect, but they are afraid.

What we are doing to conquer this injustice to women is not working, obviously.

The abuser continues because we as a society let him. We are afraid of him and what he may do to a victim,
when he is already doing it.

Maybe you don't like vigilantism...
I'm more inclined to say use the power of choice God gave us
to protect the people we love, most especially the children.

In my opinion classic abusers are worse than serial killers, worse than the thug who kills for a wallet,
they are pure evil and they get away with what they do. And teach a new generation of bullies and abusers.

I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.

Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?

Peace

prism

i wrote out a long response but paused, got logged out & lost it

i'm not going to retype it because i'm getting too emotionally upset with those under the misconception that having friends or family members use violence against the abuser will end a DV situation...that it'll make the abuser just... leave.

as a survior & someone that has volunteered to help other women & children in DV situation ....i'll just say... you have no idea how fucking much i wish it was just that simple...if it was truly a viable option it would've saved me & many other DV surviors alot of struggles...and be recomended by experts in DV...i sure never was taught in DV voulteer training that it's a viable solution

it is not. the facts are it only makes things WORSE

i had to be the one to take my kids & leave him. that or a woman has to take the to use legal means to make him leave. as is the case for all women that want to sucessfully get out of a DV relationship she must learn how to take the steps to stand up to him & never go back....& to do that she has to be the one to break the cycle of violence....

if her friends & family use violence against the abuser....her loved one have just proven to her that that violence is an exceptable way of life...and the cycle continues... as she moves on to the next abusive man/relationship

Thoughts_Arrive

Johnnyguitarwatson wrote:

hey, im a private person and would never air out my family's business but i've reached my end ... my sister is in a mentally and physically abusive relationship and there isnt even a damn thing that I or any of my siblings can do about it.... we even sent her down texas with our grandpop just so she could get away and re-evaulate her life and escape the asshole she's with...it's been 5 days and already she's threatening to hitchhike back to philly if we dont buy her airfare back asap... at this point i've pretty much given up and say fuck her ...she gets beat again its by her choice ... sounds fucked up that i feel that way but hey it's the truth. i know where this guy lives and know where he works ... but whats that gonna solve ? jailtime for me and loss of wife and house. the worst part is my older sister went through this same path until eventually she reached her breaking point ... is that what it's going to take for my younger sister ? sorry to put this shit out here but im searching for some kind of answer ...

comebackgirl

Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora

g under p

comebackgirl wrote:

Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora

Well put comebackgirl....oh and don't forget her posse.

Peace

pandora

g under p wrote:

Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?

Peace

Wow where did that come from?...that is just wrong g under p.... I thought YOU were better than that!
Your horrible post....I won't dignify with an answer

but I take it you don't have kids...

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora

I'll be there if you need me sweetie

pandora

_ wrote:

Real men don't endanger the lives of the people they love because they're incapable of or unwilling to resolve problems without violence. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

Friends and family take action to stop someone they love from being hurt
it is this simple
You may someday be in a predicament, your life on the line, and someone will step in and save it.
That is a hero willing to risk their life to save yours.
I have made my point no reason to continue going round and round and by the way.... _
this seems very familiar.... I have a little gut feeling right now.....

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora

I'll be there if you need me sweetie

I've got your back too. Not that I think I could kick someone's ass...but I could probably do some damage with my shoe...or my purse...kind of like that granny that stopped that robbery

_

prism wrote:

i wrote out a long response but paused, got logged out & lost it

i'm not going to retype it because i'm getting too emotionally upset with those under the misconception that having friends or family members use violence against the abuser will end a DV situation...that it'll make the abuser just... leave.

as a survior & someone that has volunteered to help other women & children in DV situation ....i'll just say... you have no idea how fucking much i wish it was just that simple...if it was truly a viable option it would've saved me & many other DV surviors alot of struggles...and be recomended by experts in DV...i sure never was taught in DV voulteer training that it's a viable solution

it is not. the facts are it only makes things WORSE

i had to be the one to take my kids & leave him. that or a woman has to take the to use legal means to make him leave. as is the case for all women that want to sucessfully get out of a DV relationship she must learn how to take the steps to stand up to him & never go back....& to do that she has to be the one to break the cycle of violence....

if her friends & family use violence against the abuser....her loved one have just proven to her that that violence is an exceptable way of life...and the cycle continues... as she moves on to the next abusive man/relationship

I spoke to a colleague of mine about this yesterday. She's an old lady now, but when she was young with two small children she suffered a lot of abuse at the hands of her husband. All I said was, "Hey, there's this guy who's asking what to do about his sister being abused. What do you think?" She said, "Her family has to always be there for her no matter what & make it clear that she can count on them when she's ready to leave. They should try to get her into some intensive counseling as soon as possible so she can feel strong enough to leave. I guess they could go kick the guy's ass, but that would just make things worse for her; he'd probably get really pissed off then & take it out on her." And then she went on some more about how important it is to get her into counseling. I just thought it was interesting to get an objective opinion from yet another DV survivor.

Also, speaking of DV programs & legal means, I hope everyone who's so concerned about this issue puts their votes where their mouth is and is sure to advocate for better laws & services to help victims. (And this includes laws & services that help women not feel like they have to stay in such a relationship because of financial issues or immigration issues.)

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora

I'll be there if you need me sweetie

I've got your back too. Not that I think I could kick someone's ass...but I could probably do some damage with my shoe...or my purse...kind of like that granny that stopped that robbery

me too and I am a granny! I'd try though... probably die trying

_

g under p wrote:

Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?

Peace

This is REALLY important & needed to be said. Thank you. Too bad people never want to hear the truth.

comebackgirl

g under p wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora

Well put comebackgirl....oh and don't forget her posse.

Peace

Well I always figured I would call eyed...if he could hear my screams from his basement that is

I've worked with survivors for 14 years, and more often than not when they come for options counseling they will say "I don't want to see him/her get in trouble." They just want the abuse to stop. Many times they don't want to see their abuser hurt or in jail...sometimes when those things happen it intensifies the relationship. Such a confusing, complicated dynamic in a lot of cases...and what works in one situation might not work in another. Clearly everyone is on the same page that they would want to protect their family (which is wonderful because so many survivors have zero support)...there's just some disagreement on the best way to do it. As other people have mentioned, call the hotlines. They work with these issues all the time and can be a great source of support and advice for families as well as survivors...talk to the people being victimized, because they can best tell us what kind of help they want. So many of them can't see the danger clearly so it's really important to help them understand the dynamics of abuse. Good luck to the OP and his sister.

pandora

_ wrote:

g under p wrote:

Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?

Peace

This is REALLY important & needed to be said. Thank you. Too bad people never want to hear the truth.

The truth is you or g under p don't know my son, if you did you would know totally ridiculous your comment and question is and how personally insulting his Mom found it to be

and I know YOU don't have kids I'm thinking you might just be a kid actually

comebackgirl

One other thing I would say is that no one knows the abuser better than the victim in the relationship. S/he's had to learn the abuser's every mood/reaction/behavior/etc just as a matter of survival. So if the victim says that something is likely to making the situation worse, BELIEVE HER/HIM. I know for sure if someone had kicked my dad's ass while my mom was still in the relationship he would have taken it out on her and us, become even more controlling and making it that much harder for her to leave. Once she left he was still bothering her. At that point my grandfather knew what was going on and he did send a very strong message...and it worked. My dad needed to know that my mom had a lot of support around her. But my mom was in a different place at that time. She was really the best judge of the type of support and help she needed at any given point in time.

g under p

pandora wrote:

In my opinion classic abusers are worse than serial killers, worse than the thug who kills for a wallet,
they are pure evil and they get away with what they do. And teach a new generation of bullies and abusers.

I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.

g under p wrote:

Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?

Peace

pandora wrote:

Wow where did that come from?...that is just wrong g under p.... I thought YOU were better than that!
Your horrible post....I won't dignify with an answer

but I take it you don't have kids...

It appears you may have taken question taken my question the wrong way, if so Im sorry. I only based my question on your post and your words. I was trying to point out what might be some hipocrisy in your words and the way you have spoken about your love for your son. I was trying to understand (Notice I used the word IF which should mean I'm asking an hyperthical question not saying he's this or that) your son is willing to show his love for his sister through possibly violently killing the abuser, then how far woud he possibly be from abusing his own spouse in a relationship or marriage?

Then I followed up by saying again IF he was possibly said abuser how would you help in ending this abuse with more violence to your son.

Again I not saying son is ANY of those things I'm only speaking of the words you used that he could end a life through violence, how far away is your son or some other person is from violence against their spouse. It takes a tremendous amount of anger, energy and mindset to beat up or even worse to kill a person even an abuser of a sibling.

You are absolutely correct I don't know your son and I don't know the love he has for his siblings however when you say he's capable of that kind of violence in the protection of his sibling I wonder how much further that same violence can be from a spouse. Nothing more.

BTW I have a daughter of my own and I have 4 step children to be, all have accepted me as a father figure in our home. I also taught Pre-school or 7 years (20 3-4-5 year olds with an assistant). I also ran a before and after school program (10 years) and one of them..I had him when he was 9 years old-12 continued on to star at center for the 2002 NCAA Basketball Champions MD Lonny Baxter. It's way late everyone's asleep and i must do the same..All the best to you..

Peace