Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora
Real men don't endanger the lives of the people they love because they're incapable of or unwilling to resolve problems without violence. With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Friends and family take action to stop someone they love from being hurt
it is this simple
You may someday be in a predicament, your life on the line, and someone will step in and save it.
That is a hero willing to risk their life to save yours.
I have made my point no reason to continue going round and round and by the way.... _
this seems very familiar.... I have a little gut feeling right now.....
Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora
I'll be there if you need me sweetie
I've got your back too. Not that I think I could kick someone's ass...but I could probably do some damage with my shoe...or my purse...kind of like that granny that stopped that robbery
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
i wrote out a long response but paused, got logged out & lost it
i'm not going to retype it because i'm getting too emotionally upset with those under the misconception that having friends or family members use violence against the abuser will end a DV situation...that it'll make the abuser just... leave.
as a survior & someone that has volunteered to help other women & children in DV situation ....i'll just say... you have no idea how fucking much i wish it was just that simple...if it was truly a viable option it would've saved me & many other DV surviors alot of struggles...and be recomended by experts in DV...i sure never was taught in DV voulteer training that it's a viable solution
it is not. the facts are it only makes things WORSE
i had to be the one to take my kids & leave him. that or a woman has to take the to use legal means to make him leave. as is the case for all women that want to sucessfully get out of a DV relationship she must learn how to take the steps to stand up to him & never go back....& to do that she has to be the one to break the cycle of violence....
if her friends & family use violence against the abuser....her loved one have just proven to her that that violence is an exceptable way of life...and the cycle continues... as she moves on to the next abusive man/relationship
I spoke to a colleague of mine about this yesterday. She's an old lady now, but when she was young with two small children she suffered a lot of abuse at the hands of her husband. All I said was, "Hey, there's this guy who's asking what to do about his sister being abused. What do you think?" She said, "Her family has to always be there for her no matter what & make it clear that she can count on them when she's ready to leave. They should try to get her into some intensive counseling as soon as possible so she can feel strong enough to leave. I guess they could go kick the guy's ass, but that would just make things worse for her; he'd probably get really pissed off then & take it out on her." And then she went on some more about how important it is to get her into counseling. I just thought it was interesting to get an objective opinion from yet another DV survivor.
Also, speaking of DV programs & legal means, I hope everyone who's so concerned about this issue puts their votes where their mouth is and is sure to advocate for better laws & services to help victims. (And this includes laws & services that help women not feel like they have to stay in such a relationship because of financial issues or immigration issues.)
Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora
I'll be there if you need me sweetie
I've got your back too. Not that I think I could kick someone's ass...but I could probably do some damage with my shoe...or my purse...kind of like that granny that stopped that robbery
me too and I am a granny! I'd try though... probably die trying
Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?
Peace
This is REALLY important & needed to be said. Thank you. Too bad people never want to hear the truth.
Domestic violence is such a complicated dynamic. Many abusers were victims at one time...they just have such an inability to feel any sense of vulnerability ever again that they swing to the complete other side of the spectrum and become abusive. It's that wounded part of them that many of their victims connect with...and feel a need to take care of and protect. So I think in a lot of situations victimizing the abuser would result in their victim feeling even more aligned with them. Ultimately seems like everyone agrees the victim/survivor needs A LOT of support. They need to know that what is happening is wrong (cause so many of them have learned to minimize it...that's part of the brainwashing of abuse), and that it is not their fault (because so many of them are totally convinced that they are responsible for their abuser's every mood and emotion)...and they need to be empowered to leave (rather than having their power taken away by someone else making choices for them) by having people help remove whatever obstacles there are to leaving and knowing that they have support no matter what. And I never thought I'd say this...but I'm pretty sure if I need someone's ass kicked I'm calling Pandora
Well put comebackgirl....oh and don't forget her posse.
Peace
Well I always figured I would call eyed...if he could hear my screams from his basement that is
I've worked with survivors for 14 years, and more often than not when they come for options counseling they will say "I don't want to see him/her get in trouble." They just want the abuse to stop. Many times they don't want to see their abuser hurt or in jail...sometimes when those things happen it intensifies the relationship. Such a confusing, complicated dynamic in a lot of cases...and what works in one situation might not work in another. Clearly everyone is on the same page that they would want to protect their family (which is wonderful because so many survivors have zero support)...there's just some disagreement on the best way to do it. As other people have mentioned, call the hotlines. They work with these issues all the time and can be a great source of support and advice for families as well as survivors...talk to the people being victimized, because they can best tell us what kind of help they want. So many of them can't see the danger clearly so it's really important to help them understand the dynamics of abuse. Good luck to the OP and his sister.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?
Peace
This is REALLY important & needed to be said. Thank you. Too bad people never want to hear the truth.
The truth is you or g under p don't know my son, if you did you would know totally ridiculous your comment and question is and how personally insulting his Mom found it to be
and I know YOU don't have kids I'm thinking you might just be a kid actually
One other thing I would say is that no one knows the abuser better than the victim in the relationship. S/he's had to learn the abuser's every mood/reaction/behavior/etc just as a matter of survival. So if the victim says that something is likely to making the situation worse, BELIEVE HER/HIM. I know for sure if someone had kicked my dad's ass while my mom was still in the relationship he would have taken it out on her and us, become even more controlling and making it that much harder for her to leave. Once she left he was still bothering her. At that point my grandfather knew what was going on and he did send a very strong message...and it worked. My dad needed to know that my mom had a lot of support around her. But my mom was in a different place at that time. She was really the best judge of the type of support and help she needed at any given point in time.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
In my opinion classic abusers are worse than serial killers, worse than the thug who kills for a wallet,
they are pure evil and they get away with what they do. And teach a new generation of bullies and abusers.
I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.
Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?
Wow where did that come from?...that is just wrong g under p.... I thought YOU were better than that!
Your horrible post....I won't dignify with an answer
but I take it you don't have kids...
It appears you may have taken question taken my question the wrong way, if so Im sorry. I only based my question on your post and your words. I was trying to point out what might be some hipocrisy in your words and the way you have spoken about your love for your son. I was trying to understand (Notice I used the word IF which should mean I'm asking an hyperthical question not saying he's this or that) your son is willing to show his love for his sister through possibly violently killing the abuser, then how far woud he possibly be from abusing his own spouse in a relationship or marriage?
Then I followed up by saying again IF he was possibly said abuser how would you help in ending this abuse with more violence to your son.
Again I not saying son is ANY of those things I'm only speaking of the words you used that he could end a life through violence, how far away is your son or some other person is from violence against their spouse. It takes a tremendous amount of anger, energy and mindset to beat up or even worse to kill a person even an abuser of a sibling.
You are absolutely correct I don't know your son and I don't know the love he has for his siblings however when you say he's capable of that kind of violence in the protection of his sibling I wonder how much further that same violence can be from a spouse. Nothing more.
BTW I have a daughter of my own and I have 4 step children to be, all have accepted me as a father figure in our home. I also taught Pre-school or 7 years (20 3-4-5 year olds with an assistant). I also ran a before and after school program (10 years) and one of them..I had him when he was 9 years old-12 continued on to star at center for the 2002 NCAA Basketball Champions MD Lonny Baxter. It's way late everyone's asleep and i must do the same..All the best to you..
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.
I would have no problem standing up to them if that was the most locial way to do things with the minimum amount of negative recourse. I hope I'm not aking this the wrong way either, but "what good men do"? Does that make me or GunderP not "good men" because we weighed the risks and feel that there are better, more proven ways to fix these situations? It is my opnion that good men are protectors, and they attampt to protect their family as a collective. Killing someone or seriously maiming them is one outlet, sure, but there are many other ways. I'm kinda surprised that you'd be willing to just substitute the life of your son for that of your daughter, with risk that it might not even save your daughters situation.
Personally, I would be much more proud of someone who could talk to thier sister and find a way out without risking putting the entire family in worse jeopardy.
on an aside, I think it would be easier for a guy like me to stand up to this thug (the abuser) because I dont have kids and that wont risk fucking up thier future or how they view their father.
If somebody like GunderP decides to give the abuser a taste of his own medicine, he risks being arrested among many other things. Then he risks his children finding out that being violent and breaking the law is OK. That is a terrible example to set for your kids. He could lose his job too..So you RISK not fixing the problem and escalating problems for the rest of your family.
There are tons of other way to fix these problems without violence. TONS.
In my opinion classic abusers are worse than serial killers, worse than the thug who kills for a wallet,
they are pure evil and they get away with what they do. And teach a new generation of bullies and abusers.
I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.
Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?
Wow where did that come from?...that is just wrong g under p.... I thought YOU were better than that!
Your horrible post....I won't dignify with an answer
but I take it you don't have kids...
It appears you may have taken question taken my question the wrong way, if so Im sorry. I only based my question on your post and your words. I was trying to point out what might be some hipocrisy in your words and the way you have spoken about your love for your son. I was trying to understand (Notice I used the word IF which should mean I'm asking an hyperthical question not saying he's this or that) your son is willing to show his love for his sister through possibly violently killing the abuser, then how far woud he possibly be from abusing his own spouse in a relationship or marriage?
Then I followed up by saying again IF he was possibly said abuser how would you help in ending this abuse with more violence to your son.
Again I not saying son is ANY of those things I'm only speaking of the words you used that he could end a life through violence, how far away is your son or some other person is from violence against their spouse. It takes a tremendous amount of anger, energy and mindset to beat up or even worse to kill a person even an abuser of a sibling.
You are absolutely correct I don't know your son and I don't know the love he has for his siblings however when you say he's capable of that kind of violence in the protection of his sibling I wonder how much further that same violence can be from a spouse. Nothing more.
BTW I have a daughter of my own and I have 4 step children to be, all have accepted me as a father figure in our home. I also taught Pre-school or 7 years (20 3-4-5 year olds with an assistant). I also ran a before and after school program (10 years) and one of them..I had him when he was 9 years old-12 continued on to star at center for the 2002 NCAA Basketball Champions MD Lonny Baxter. It's way late everyone's asleep and i must do the same..All the best to you..
Peace
You were questioning my principles...assuming I would have a double standard if it were my son doing that heinous thing. I would not.
One might think you would know my heart by now. And yes I took offense.
It is a ludicrous analogy because the women I am could not raise an abuser.
My children were taught from tiny on that cruelty of any kind is unacceptable,
that being cruel you have opened your heart and mind to evil.
I am immensely proud of my adult children, they are the very best thing I have done in my life.
I know their hearts, their passion, dedication to family, their values and principles.
Because my son would be willing to protect and defend his sister
does not mean he is controlling. Quite the opposite.
He would lay his life on the line for his sister...would you do that?
You see here you are insulting all the men who have said they would defend their sisters,
accusing them of being less than you and of being controlling
and capable of violence against some one they love dearly
because they are willing to defend them physically.
I hope you see how incredibly judgmental that is and superior sounding and really just plain awful.
I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.
I would have no problem standing up to them if that was the most locial way to do things with the minimum amount of negative recourse. I hope I'm not aking this the wrong way either, but "what good men do"? Does that make me or GunderP not "good men" because we weighed the risks and feel that there are better, more proven ways to fix these situations? It is my opnion that good men are protectors, and they attampt to protect their family as a collective. Killing someone or seriously maiming them is one outlet, sure, but there are many other ways. I'm kinda surprised that you'd be willing to just substitute the life of your son for that of your daughter, with risk that it might not even save your daughters situation.
Personally, I would be much more proud of someone who could talk to thier sister and find a way out without risking putting the entire family in worse jeopardy.
on an aside, I think it would be easier for a guy like me to stand up to this thug (the abuser) because I dont have kids and that wont risk fucking up thier future or how they view their father.
If somebody like GunderP decides to give the abuser a taste of his own medicine, he risks being arrested among many other things. Then he risks his children finding out that being violent and breaking the law is OK. That is a terrible example to set for your kids. He could lose his job too..So you RISK not fixing the problem and escalating problems for the rest of your family.
There are tons of other way to fix these problems without violence. TONS.
Jon, As I've said many times here in the thread, what we are doing as a society is not working.
My sister was abused 41 years ago.
Two generations of new abusers have been born and are now abusing.
Women are no more empowered today,
even to save their own children from growing into abusers,
which is a terrible crime in and of itself.
Mothers truly carry all the guilt.
God put them here to protect, nurture, defend, teach, love.
We are to be our children's very best friend.
Mothers are responsible for the adults who walk this earth.
Mothers must learn to put their children first.
This, the children deserve to live from tiny on, so when they are parents
they can continue the positive cycle.
Any woman who would allow herself to be abused and her children to be or witness abuse
is as much to blame as the abuser.
In my opinion and thats what we do here share opinions, key word share...not personal attacks,
I believe a good man will put his life on the line to protect his family.
And a good woman will always put her children first, protect and nuture.
Abusers only understand violence. Men must speak to them in their language. Stand up against them.
Women must be held accountable for not being good mothers
and protecting their children with their lives,
they are responsible for them.
This is what will break the cycle...in my opinion.
This week in the paper, there was a story about a guy who shot and killed his ex-girlfriend. He was abusive to her and she finally left him, got 2 orders of protection and it did not save her. He did not believe in that piece of paper and continued to threaten her until he did what he said he would. He went to her job with flowers and when he got close, shot her in the face, and later killed himself.
When I read stories about this, and there has been quite a few in the past few weeks, it does make me wonder if he had gotten a beat down, would he have killed her? Would it have made the situation worse? If she had stopped the violence earlier, when it first started, would she be alive right now? Whose to say.
Using violence is a slippery slope- it may work for one person, but not for another. I do believe it starts with the abusee- stopping the violence at the start- and not when the abuser knows they have the power to hurt you. Sometimes by then it's too late.
A strange thing about this whole thread is that I think some of us are talking about specific circumstances that we have encountered. But this started withthe story from the original poster. ANd from what i gather, that relationship was rather new and didnt have children involved. Many people on here were suggesting violence towards him. My point is that every situation is different and needs to be handled differently. If it is a newer relationship and they are young, I would guess that more often than not it is easier for the woman to have some sense talked into her and leave the guy -- rather than a relationship where they have been together for 20 yrs and they have kids ans she feels stuck. I am glad that the original poster first agreed to the violence and then retracted that by saying his sister is extending her stay away from the guy and that confronting him with violence might not be necessary at this point.
I am also suprised people would even suggest that he use violence not even knowing the entire situation. As I asked earlier:
How long have they been together?
Does he drink? this is a big one, because if he only abuses her when he's drunk, this is a totally different probem, and quite common. Stay of the whiskey!
every situation is unique. no shit? what gets one abusive monster to move along leaving the lady be does not always work that way with a different abusive prick. wow. those are some pretty astounding revelations.
have a wonderful day. im out. i have better things to do. things like putting my face in a bench vice or running over my own arm with my own car.
every situation is unique. no shit? what gets one abusive monster to move along leaving the lady be does not always work that way with a different abusive prick. wow. those are some pretty astounding revelations.
have a wonderful day. im out. i have better things to do. things like putting my face in a bench vice or running over my own arm with my own car.
the obvious point here that you seem to be missing is that if the relationship in the original post is only a month or two old, its pretty easy for this girl to get out without you and scarface and John Wayne and all your band of badasses goin over there and beating hell out of him, breaking his ribs, bloodying his nose, twisting his nipples and all the other movie madness you like to prescribe to. So yes, there are other options, but you are quick to suggest and use violence without knowing shit about anything. But it sounds like you enjoy that kind of thing and look for the first chance you can to indulge yourself. I guess its best you are off to take it out on yourself with your head in the vice though.. sounds like you need to let out some aggression and maybe that will give you some time to think of the other options that are present.
But I tend to think you'll just retort about puking or gouging your own eyes out because you cant believe anyone in the world would analyze something and not jump on the violence bandwagon.
I have an idea...maybe we could just make the abuser read this thread and his head will implode :shock: Seriously...it makes my head hurt. (sorry Juggler...but in this case that face was necessary)
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I have an idea...maybe we could just make the abuser read this thread and his head will implode :shock: Seriously...it makes my head hurt. (sorry Juggler...but in this case that face was necessary)
comebackgirl....that was the perfect time to opt for mr. thumbs down: :thumbdown:
I have an idea...maybe we could just make the abuser read this thread and his head will implode :shock: Seriously...it makes my head hurt. (sorry Juggler...but in this case that face was necessary)
comebackgirl....that was the perfect time to opt for mr. thumbs down: :thumbdown:
i'm disappointed in you.
What about this guy: :crazy: I sort of like him
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
In my opinion classic abusers are worse than serial killers, worse than the thug who kills for a wallet,
they are pure evil and they get away with what they do. And teach a new generation of bullies and abusers.
I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.
Interesting, IF your son LOVES like THAT be careful he's not going to be a controlling violent abuser himself. IF it did turn out he was such an abuser then what or how would you then resolve this problem with more violence against your own son?
Wow where did that come from?...that is just wrong g under p.... I thought YOU were better than that!
Your horrible post....I won't dignify with an answer
but I take it you don't have kids...
It appears you may have taken question taken my question the wrong way, if so Im sorry. I only based my question on your post and your words. I was trying to point out what might be some hipocrisy in your words and the way you have spoken about your love for your son. I was trying to understand (Notice I used the word IF which should mean I'm asking an hyperthical question not saying he's this or that) your son is willing to show his love for his sister through possibly violently killing the abuser, then how far woud he possibly be from abusing his own spouse in a relationship or marriage?
Then I followed up by saying again IF he was possibly said abuser how would you help in ending this abuse with more violence to your son.
Again I not saying son is ANY of those things I'm only speaking of the words you used that he could end a life through violence, how far away is your son or some other person is from violence against their spouse. It takes a tremendous amount of anger, energy and mindset to beat up or even worse to kill a person even an abuser of a sibling.
You are absolutely correct I don't know your son and I don't know the love he has for his siblings however when you say he's capable of that kind of violence in the protection of his sibling I wonder how much further that same violence can be from a spouse. Nothing more.
BTW I have a daughter of my own and I have 4 step children to be, all have accepted me as a father figure in our home. I also taught Pre-school or 7 years (20 3-4-5 year olds with an assistant). I also ran a before and after school program (10 years) and one of them..I had him when he was 9 years old-12 continued on to star at center for the 2002 NCAA Basketball Champions MD Lonny Baxter. It's way late everyone's asleep and i must do the same..All the best to you..
Peace
You were questioning my principles...assuming I would have a double standard if it were my son doing that heinous thing. I would not.
One might think you would know my heart by now. And yes I took offense.
It is a ludicrous analogy because the women I am could not raise an abuser.
My children were taught from tiny on that cruelty of any kind is unacceptable,
that being cruel you have opened your heart and mind to evil.
I am immensely proud of my adult children, they are the very best thing I have done in my life.
I know their hearts, their passion, dedication to family, their values and principles.
Because my son would be willing to protect and defend his sister
does not mean he is controlling. Quite the opposite.
He would lay his life on the line for his sister...would you do that?
You see here you are insulting all the men who have said they would defend their sisters,
accusing them of being less than you and of being controlling
and capable of violence against some one they love dearly
because they are willing to defend them physically.
I hope you see how incredibly judgmental that is and superior sounding and really just plain awful.
Hey everybody Happy Valentine's Day to all the peeps... I'm happy to be back home with family and kids...we had a bunathon yesterday and couldn't join in on our discussion even the kids couldn't interrupt.
The OP JOhnny Guitar wrote here to share his feelings on the treament of his sister and we're here to try and help him in any way we can. Luckly he has made his decision on what he feels is best for HIM and his love for his sister...that's ALL that really matters here.
Well like some have said here we make decisions based on what we think or feel is best for you and your families even faced with high risks. JGW has made his and I'm sure he's happy with what he made and that his sister is safe if she doesn't decide to go back.
Pandora....you'll make the decisions which you feel is best for your family and so will ALL the others who came on here to try and help JGW. It's all done in the love that we all feel for others on this board and that's what really matters.
Like i've said before I wish for you and your family all the best and do try to wear red I'm wearing green I'm, we're part Irish way back when.
Peace...have a lovely day.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.
I would have no problem standing up to them if that was the most locial way to do things with the minimum amount of negative recourse. I hope I'm not aking this the wrong way either, but "what good men do"? Does that make me or GunderP not "good men" because we weighed the risks and feel that there are better, more proven ways to fix these situations? It is my opnion that good men are protectors, and they attampt to protect their family as a collective. Killing someone or seriously maiming them is one outlet, sure, but there are many other ways. I'm kinda surprised that you'd be willing to just substitute the life of your son for that of your daughter, with risk that it might not even save your daughters situation.
Personally, I would be much more proud of someone who could talk to thier sister and find a way out without risking putting the entire family in worse jeopardy.
on an aside, I think it would be easier for a guy like me to stand up to this thug (the abuser) because I dont have kids and that wont risk fucking up thier future or how they view their father.
If somebody like GunderP decides to give the abuser a taste of his own medicine, he risks being arrested among many other things. Then he risks his children finding out that being violent and breaking the law is OK. That is a terrible example to set for your kids. He could lose his job too..So you RISK not fixing the problem and escalating problems for the rest of your family.
There are tons of other way to fix these problems without violence. TONS.
Good day Jon, one of these days you and I should go for a drink even though I don't really drink specially since you are just down the road from me. It's season and i'm, we're way too busy. Surprised the children and flew in on Saturday then took them yesterday on a long ride on the golf cart around the lake and then played some hoops .....just glad to be home.
Like i said I wish JGW all the best, he knows what's best for him and his sister/family and really that's all that matters here.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I have an idea...maybe we could just make the abuser read this thread and his head will implode :shock: Seriously...it makes my head hurt. (sorry Juggler...but in this case that face was necessary)
Actually comebackgirl that's a brilliant idea if he had the guts to do so. JGW and his sister will be fine I just hope that anyone else who maybe going through this abusive situation will get some insight into what to do and what has been spoken here.
Peace to you and have a great V-Day.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I admire the men here who will stand up to them. I know if my daughter was brutalized my son would not hesitate, neither would his friends and the abuser would be on his way or dead. My son would gladly give up his life for his sister, this is how he loves. He would go to prison if it meant her to be free. And I would be very proud of him.
This is what good men do, they protect, this is their love for us.
I would have no problem standing up to them if that was the most locial way to do things with the minimum amount of negative recourse. I hope I'm not aking this the wrong way either, but "what good men do"? Does that make me or GunderP not "good men" because we weighed the risks and feel that there are better, more proven ways to fix these situations? It is my opnion that good men are protectors, and they attampt to protect their family as a collective. Killing someone or seriously maiming them is one outlet, sure, but there are many other ways. I'm kinda surprised that you'd be willing to just substitute the life of your son for that of your daughter, with risk that it might not even save your daughters situation.
Personally, I would be much more proud of someone who could talk to thier sister and find a way out without risking putting the entire family in worse jeopardy.
on an aside, I think it would be easier for a guy like me to stand up to this thug (the abuser) because I dont have kids and that wont risk fucking up thier future or how they view their father.
If somebody like GunderP decides to give the abuser a taste of his own medicine, he risks being arrested among many other things. Then he risks his children finding out that being violent and breaking the law is OK. That is a terrible example to set for your kids. He could lose his job too..So you RISK not fixing the problem and escalating problems for the rest of your family.
There are tons of other way to fix these problems without violence. TONS.
Good day Jon, one of these days you and I should go for a drink even though I don't really drink specially since you are just down the road from me. It's season and i'm, we're way too busy. Surprised the children and flew in on Saturday then took them yesterday on a long ride on the golf cart around the lake and then played some hoops .....just glad to be home.
Like i said I wish JGW all the best, he knows what's best for him and his sister/family and really that's all that matters here.
Peace
Most certainly G!
sounds like a great day out in your parts. Weather here is amazing.
I am definitely hoping we hear an update on JGW situation. I hope she is doing well and finding a solution to her problem. :(
I have an idea...maybe we could just make the abuser read this thread and his head will implode :shock: Seriously...it makes my head hurt. (sorry Juggler...but in this case that face was necessary)
Actually comebackgirl that's a brilliant idea if he had the guts to do so. JGW and his sister will be fine I just hope that anyone else who maybe going through this abusive situation will get some insight into what to do and what has been spoken here.
Peace to you and have a great V-Day.
Thanks! You too
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
do try to wear red I'm wearing green I'm, we're part Irish way back when.
Red undies of course
Not long ago I heard of a young woman's story here in Atlanta. She was on a populated public street. She was crying, screaming, pleading for help.
She was being beaten by an estranged boyfriend ..no one responded to her pleas.
They walked by.
They hide themselves in nearby cars or in their homes safe and sound for fear of being injured and because they did not want to become involved,
or heaven forbid make the situation worse :?
Yes they called 911 but unfortunately she was dead and the perp was gone by the time they got there. I never heard he was apprehended.
My feeling on this is it is better to leave this world a hero then live on wishing you had been one.
That at times of life and death we must step in and save another human being,
even a total stranger, even using brut force,
because surely they will lose their life if we don't.
Some people are heros and some people are not.
Some people react with emotion and gut in impeding danger.
Some people hide and do nothing filled with apathy and fear,
others rely on logic and will safely call in someone of authority,
even though minutes lost may insure the victim dies.
I know heros...people who will not look the other way. People who will risk their life
to save another. My son is a one of them.... he is hero.
If that was any of our loved ones I'm sure we would all want to have a hero nearby.
And we would be very thankful that someone saved our loved one,
that they had the courage to step up and do the right thing to save another human life....
because as sure as anything she was going to be beaten to death ......
and yes...... eventually she was.
do try to wear red I'm wearing green I'm, we're part Irish way back when.
Red undies of course
Not long ago I heard of a young woman's story here in Atlanta. She was on a populated public street. She was crying, screaming, pleading for help.
She was being beaten by an estranged boyfriend ..no one responded to her pleas.
They walked by.
They hide themselves in nearby cars or in their homes safe and sound for fear of being injured and because they did not want to become involved,
or heaven forbid make the situation worse :?
Yes they called 911 but unfortunately she was dead and the perp was gone by the time they got there. I never heard he was apprehended.
My feeling on this is it is better to leave this world a hero then live on wishing you had been one.
That at times of life and death we must step in and save another human being,
even a total stranger, even using brut force,
because surely they will lose their life if we don't.
Some people are heros and some people are not.
Some people react with emotion and gut in impeding danger.
Some people hide and do nothing filled with apathy and fear,
others rely on logic and will safely call in someone of authority,
even though minutes lost may insure the victim dies.
I know heros...people who will not look the other way. People who will risk their life
to save another. My son is a one of them.... he is hero.
If that was any of our loved ones I'm sure we would all want to have a hero nearby.
And we would be very thankful that someone saved our loved one,
that they had the courage to step up and do the right thing to save another human life....
because as sure as anything she was going to be beaten to death ......
and yes...... eventually she was.
'in my opinion'
A. This example is irrelevant. We're not talking about stepping in to defend someone who is being beaten at that moment, whose life is in immediate danger. That's a totally different thing. (If you don't believe me, ask the law.)
B. This post is offensive and myopic. Please stop calling people who use their brains cowards. It's getting old.
C. You made me wonder: If someone's sister gets killed because he beat up her boyfriend (when she was not in immediate danger or even around), would he still be a hero? Would he be complicit in her death?
Comments
it is this simple
You may someday be in a predicament, your life on the line, and someone will step in and save it.
That is a hero willing to risk their life to save yours.
I have made my point no reason to continue going round and round and by the way.... _
this seems very familiar.... I have a little gut feeling right now.....
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I spoke to a colleague of mine about this yesterday. She's an old lady now, but when she was young with two small children she suffered a lot of abuse at the hands of her husband. All I said was, "Hey, there's this guy who's asking what to do about his sister being abused. What do you think?" She said, "Her family has to always be there for her no matter what & make it clear that she can count on them when she's ready to leave. They should try to get her into some intensive counseling as soon as possible so she can feel strong enough to leave. I guess they could go kick the guy's ass, but that would just make things worse for her; he'd probably get really pissed off then & take it out on her." And then she went on some more about how important it is to get her into counseling. I just thought it was interesting to get an objective opinion from yet another DV survivor.
Also, speaking of DV programs & legal means, I hope everyone who's so concerned about this issue puts their votes where their mouth is and is sure to advocate for better laws & services to help victims. (And this includes laws & services that help women not feel like they have to stay in such a relationship because of financial issues or immigration issues.)
This is REALLY important & needed to be said. Thank you. Too bad people never want to hear the truth.
I've worked with survivors for 14 years, and more often than not when they come for options counseling they will say "I don't want to see him/her get in trouble." They just want the abuse to stop. Many times they don't want to see their abuser hurt or in jail...sometimes when those things happen it intensifies the relationship. Such a confusing, complicated dynamic in a lot of cases...and what works in one situation might not work in another. Clearly everyone is on the same page that they would want to protect their family (which is wonderful because so many survivors have zero support)...there's just some disagreement on the best way to do it. As other people have mentioned, call the hotlines. They work with these issues all the time and can be a great source of support and advice for families as well as survivors...talk to the people being victimized, because they can best tell us what kind of help they want. So many of them can't see the danger clearly so it's really important to help them understand the dynamics of abuse. Good luck to the OP and his sister.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
and I know YOU don't have kids
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
It appears you may have taken question taken my question the wrong way, if so Im sorry. I only based my question on your post and your words. I was trying to point out what might be some hipocrisy in your words and the way you have spoken about your love for your son. I was trying to understand (Notice I used the word IF which should mean I'm asking an hyperthical question not saying he's this or that) your son is willing to show his love for his sister through possibly violently killing the abuser, then how far woud he possibly be from abusing his own spouse in a relationship or marriage?
Then I followed up by saying again IF he was possibly said abuser how would you help in ending this abuse with more violence to your son.
Again I not saying son is ANY of those things I'm only speaking of the words you used that he could end a life through violence, how far away is your son or some other person is from violence against their spouse. It takes a tremendous amount of anger, energy and mindset to beat up or even worse to kill a person even an abuser of a sibling.
You are absolutely correct I don't know your son and I don't know the love he has for his siblings however when you say he's capable of that kind of violence in the protection of his sibling I wonder how much further that same violence can be from a spouse. Nothing more.
BTW I have a daughter of my own and I have 4 step children to be, all have accepted me as a father figure in our home. I also taught Pre-school or 7 years (20 3-4-5 year olds with an assistant). I also ran a before and after school program (10 years) and one of them..I had him when he was 9 years old-12 continued on to star at center for the 2002 NCAA Basketball Champions MD Lonny Baxter. It's way late everyone's asleep and i must do the same..All the best to you..
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I would have no problem standing up to them if that was the most locial way to do things with the minimum amount of negative recourse. I hope I'm not aking this the wrong way either, but "what good men do"? Does that make me or GunderP not "good men" because we weighed the risks and feel that there are better, more proven ways to fix these situations? It is my opnion that good men are protectors, and they attampt to protect their family as a collective. Killing someone or seriously maiming them is one outlet, sure, but there are many other ways. I'm kinda surprised that you'd be willing to just substitute the life of your son for that of your daughter, with risk that it might not even save your daughters situation.
Personally, I would be much more proud of someone who could talk to thier sister and find a way out without risking putting the entire family in worse jeopardy.
on an aside, I think it would be easier for a guy like me to stand up to this thug (the abuser) because I dont have kids and that wont risk fucking up thier future or how they view their father.
If somebody like GunderP decides to give the abuser a taste of his own medicine, he risks being arrested among many other things. Then he risks his children finding out that being violent and breaking the law is OK. That is a terrible example to set for your kids. He could lose his job too..So you RISK not fixing the problem and escalating problems for the rest of your family.
There are tons of other way to fix these problems without violence. TONS.
One might think you would know my heart by now. And yes I took offense.
It is a ludicrous analogy because the women I am could not raise an abuser.
My children were taught from tiny on that cruelty of any kind is unacceptable,
that being cruel you have opened your heart and mind to evil.
I am immensely proud of my adult children, they are the very best thing I have done in my life.
I know their hearts, their passion, dedication to family, their values and principles.
Because my son would be willing to protect and defend his sister
does not mean he is controlling. Quite the opposite.
He would lay his life on the line for his sister...would you do that?
You see here you are insulting all the men who have said they would defend their sisters,
accusing them of being less than you and of being controlling
and capable of violence against some one they love dearly
because they are willing to defend them physically.
I hope you see how incredibly judgmental that is and superior sounding and really just plain awful.
My sister was abused 41 years ago.
Two generations of new abusers have been born and are now abusing.
Women are no more empowered today,
even to save their own children from growing into abusers,
which is a terrible crime in and of itself.
Mothers truly carry all the guilt.
God put them here to protect, nurture, defend, teach, love.
We are to be our children's very best friend.
Mothers are responsible for the adults who walk this earth.
Mothers must learn to put their children first.
This, the children deserve to live from tiny on, so when they are parents
they can continue the positive cycle.
Any woman who would allow herself to be abused and her children to be or witness abuse
is as much to blame as the abuser.
In my opinion and thats what we do here share opinions, key word share...not personal attacks,
I believe a good man will put his life on the line to protect his family.
And a good woman will always put her children first, protect and nuture.
Abusers only understand violence. Men must speak to them in their language. Stand up against them.
Women must be held accountable for not being good mothers
and protecting their children with their lives,
they are responsible for them.
This is what will break the cycle...in my opinion.
When I read stories about this, and there has been quite a few in the past few weeks, it does make me wonder if he had gotten a beat down, would he have killed her? Would it have made the situation worse? If she had stopped the violence earlier, when it first started, would she be alive right now? Whose to say.
Using violence is a slippery slope- it may work for one person, but not for another. I do believe it starts with the abusee- stopping the violence at the start- and not when the abuser knows they have the power to hurt you. Sometimes by then it's too late.
Violence or not? That is the hard question.
I am also suprised people would even suggest that he use violence not even knowing the entire situation. As I asked earlier:
How long have they been together?
Does he drink? this is a big one, because if he only abuses her when he's drunk, this is a totally different probem, and quite common. Stay of the whiskey!
have a wonderful day. im out. i have better things to do. things like putting my face in a bench vice or running over my own arm with my own car.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
the obvious point here that you seem to be missing is that if the relationship in the original post is only a month or two old, its pretty easy for this girl to get out without you and scarface and John Wayne and all your band of badasses goin over there and beating hell out of him, breaking his ribs, bloodying his nose, twisting his nipples and all the other movie madness you like to prescribe to. So yes, there are other options, but you are quick to suggest and use violence without knowing shit about anything. But it sounds like you enjoy that kind of thing and look for the first chance you can to indulge yourself. I guess its best you are off to take it out on yourself with your head in the vice though.. sounds like you need to let out some aggression and maybe that will give you some time to think of the other options that are present.
But I tend to think you'll just retort about puking or gouging your own eyes out because you cant believe anyone in the world would analyze something and not jump on the violence bandwagon.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
comebackgirl....that was the perfect time to opt for mr. thumbs down: :thumbdown:
i'm disappointed in you.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Hey everybody Happy Valentine's Day to all the peeps... I'm happy to be back home with family and kids...we had a bunathon
The OP JOhnny Guitar wrote here to share his feelings on the treament of his sister and we're here to try and help him in any way we can. Luckly he has made his decision on what he feels is best for HIM and his love for his sister...that's ALL that really matters here.
Well like some have said here we make decisions based on what we think or feel is best for you and your families even faced with high risks. JGW has made his and I'm sure he's happy with what he made and that his sister is safe if she doesn't decide to go back.
Pandora....you'll make the decisions which you feel is best for your family and so will ALL the others who came on here to try and help JGW. It's all done in the love that we all feel for others on this board and that's what really matters.
Like i've said before I wish for you and your family all the best and do try to wear red I'm wearing green I'm, we're part Irish way back when.
Peace...have a lovely day.
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Good day Jon, one of these days you and I should go for a drink even though I don't really drink specially since you are just down the road from me. It's season and i'm, we're way too busy. Surprised the children and flew in on Saturday then took them yesterday on a long ride on the golf cart around the lake and then played some hoops .....just glad to be home.
Like i said I wish JGW all the best, he knows what's best for him and his sister/family and really that's all that matters here.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Actually comebackgirl that's a brilliant idea if he had the guts to do so. JGW and his sister will be fine I just hope that anyone else who maybe going through this abusive situation will get some insight into what to do and what has been spoken here.
Peace to you and have a great V-Day.
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
sounds like a great day out in your parts. Weather here is amazing.
I am definitely hoping we hear an update on JGW situation. I hope she is doing well and finding a solution to her problem. :(
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
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Not long ago I heard of a young woman's story here in Atlanta. She was on a populated public street. She was crying, screaming, pleading for help.
She was being beaten by an estranged boyfriend ..no one responded to her pleas.
They walked by.
They hide themselves in nearby cars or in their homes safe and sound for fear of being injured and because they did not want to become involved,
or heaven forbid make the situation worse :?
Yes they called 911 but unfortunately she was dead and the perp was gone by the time they got there. I never heard he was apprehended.
My feeling on this is
it is better to leave this world a hero then live on wishing you had been one.
That at times of life and death we must step in and save another human being,
even a total stranger, even using brut force,
because surely they will lose their life if we don't.
Some people are heros and some people are not.
Some people react with emotion and gut in impeding danger.
Some people hide and do nothing filled with apathy and fear,
others rely on logic and will safely call in someone of authority,
even though minutes lost may insure the victim dies.
I know heros...people who will not look the other way. People who will risk their life
to save another. My son is a one of them.... he is hero.
If that was any of our loved ones I'm sure we would all want to have a hero nearby.
And we would be very thankful that someone saved our loved one,
that they had the courage to step up and do the right thing to save another human life....
because as sure as anything she was going to be beaten to death ......
and yes...... eventually she was.
'in my opinion'
A. This example is irrelevant. We're not talking about stepping in to defend someone who is being beaten at that moment, whose life is in immediate danger. That's a totally different thing. (If you don't believe me, ask the law.)
B. This post is offensive and myopic. Please stop calling people who use their brains cowards. It's getting old.
C. You made me wonder: If someone's sister gets killed because he beat up her boyfriend (when she was not in immediate danger or even around), would he still be a hero? Would he be complicit in her death?