guns and bullets

Godfather.

Enjoy !

http://www.politesociety.com/binladenliquors_ol10[1].swf

Godfather.

dunkman

it'd be a fuckload easier if all the pathetic limp wristed gun owners just met up one sunny day in somewhere like Idaho or Iowa and just had a massive cockfight to the death... save us all the frustration and sadness of hearing of yet another maniac going on the rampage.


and when will people get over the kitchen knife/baseball bat/hammers kill people argument???? it's the argumentative equivalent of a 4 year old retard saying "yellow" every time his carer asks him the colour of the sky.

pandora

conspiracy theory # 524

Brainwashed people committing mass murder
for the prime intent of taking away our personal right to bear arms,
to protect our selves, our children, our home and our country.

Because there are crazy people, believing crazy and not so crazy things,
or doing crazy things,
does not mean
those who are responsible should lose their rights.
That is crazy.

eMMI

Ultimately, the right to bear arms shouldn't be a right at all. :think:

Moonpig

HeidiJam wrote:

If somebody is going to kill someone they will do it regardless of weather there are guns or not. Some of you need to think logically instead of what your parties views are.

Good point, may aswell just make it easier for them. :roll:

this is a non party affiliated message

dunkman

i enjoy that 'rights' bullshit... its a right to bear arms... it's only a 'right' cos some wee man with a quill wrote it down on a bit of paper and declared it so... he might have been mentally insufficient to declare that a right... what if it had been a 'right' to 'fist a goat on a sunday' just because someone 300 years ago was into that kinda shit.

stop living in the past america... rights are given and rights are taken away... i'd hate to live my life based on a 300 year old law made in a time when a gun probably was required due to the troubled times of that era... basically we should make it a right for any new fledging country to go around shooting each other... hey Bosnians.. write it down now!!! you have a right to flash 19 year old girls whenever the fuck you want!!!

crazy times for a crazy country.

dunkman

HeidiJam wrote:

If somebody is going to kill someone they will do it regardless of weather there are guns or not. Some of you need to think logically instead of what your parties views are.

worst spell of weather we've had for ages.

anyway, it's quite difficult for a mentalist to kill 6 people including a 9 year old girl with a penknife... its much easier with a semi-automatic weapon...

ironically thats the only semi men with guns can actually achieve.

Moonpig

dunkman wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

If somebody is going to kill someone they will do it regardless of weather there are guns or not. Some of you need to think logically instead of what your parties views are.

worst spell of weather we've had for ages.

anyway, it's quite difficult for a mentalist to kill 6 people including a 9 year old girl with a penknife... its much easier with a semi-automatic weapon...

ironically thats the only semi men with guns can actually achieve.

I know it's early days and all that, but I don't care. I am nominating this for post of the year. Well played wordsmyth, well played.

Godfather.

dunkman wrote:

it'd be a fuckload easier if all the pathetic limp wristed gun owners just met up one sunny day in somewhere like Idaho or Iowa and just had a massive cockfight to the death... save us all the frustration and sadness of hearing of yet another maniac going on the rampage.


and when will people get over the kitchen knife/baseball bat/hammers kill people argument???? it's the argumentative equivalent of a 4 year old retard saying "yellow" every time his carer asks him the colour of the sky.

you can piss and moan about guns all you want...but they will NEVER go away.
it might be a fuckload easier if limp wristed pathetic cry babies would just stop whining like a bunch of pre-teen spoiled brats who have zero understanding of the words freedom and rights..other than their right to snivel about issues they have ZERO understanding of, have a nice day.

Godfather.

Blockhead

dunkman wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

If somebody is going to kill someone they will do it regardless of weather there are guns or not. Some of you need to think logically instead of what your parties views are.

worst spell of weather we've had for ages.

anyway, it's quite difficult for a mentalist to kill 6 people including a 9 year old girl with a penknife... its much easier with a semi-automatic weapon...

ironically thats the only semi men with guns can actually achieve.

Wow, strong argument... spelling, really?
Gun control seeks to disarm the lawless through law. It doesn't really work in practice. Look at Vermont. Vermont is one of 3 states that allows concealed carry with no licensing system whatsoever. You can go into any gun shop and if you pass a background check you can carry concealed. They literally have the most lax gun control in the country. Yet their crime rate is tiny and their murder rate is near zero.

There is no correlation between crime and availability of firearms through legal channels. Poverty seems to have far more effect on crime than things like gun control ever will. Enact harsher punishments for gun crime. Don't restrict us law abiding citizens. We aren't the problem.
Swimming pools cause more deaths a year in children than guns do, by your logic we should ban swimming pools?

Blockhead

FACT: The non-gun homicide rate for children in the U.S. is more than twice as high than other western countries.

Eight times as many children die from non-gun violent acts than from gun crimes.

* Kids and Guns, 2000, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention



This indicates that the problem is violence, NOT guns !!

FACT: 82% of homicides to children age 13 and under were committed without a gun.

* 1997, FBI Uniform Crime Statistics



FACT: 0.1% of all deaths for children between the ages 0-14 are from firearms, 0.6% are from motor vehicles, 5.3% are from being struck in beatings or bludgeoning, 6.0% from poisoning, and 42.6% from suffocation.

* 1997 National Center for Health Statistics National Vital Statistics Report



FACT: In 1996 there were only 21 accidental gun deaths for children under age 15. About twice as many children under 10 die from drowning in bathtubs.

* Centers for Disease Control



MYTH: 13 Children are killed each day by guns.

FACT: The statistics cited for this myth include "children" up to age 19 or age 24, depending on the source. Most violent crime is committed by males ages 16-24, so these numbers include adult gang members dying during criminal activity.

*FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997



FACT: 18-20 year olds commit over 23% of all gun murders. None of these criminals are allowed to purchase a handgun due to their age under current law.

* U.S. Treasury and Justice Dept. Report, 1999



FACT: During the Clinton administration, federal prosecutions of gun-related crimes dropped more than 44%.

* Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) at Syracuse Univ. 1992-1998



FACT: There are more than 22,000 gun laws at the city, county, state, and federal level.

* BATF estimate, 1992

If gun control worked, then we should be free of crime.

FACT: There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years.



FACT: 90% of all violent crime in the U.S. does not involve any gun of any type.

* 1998 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms



FACT: Less than 1% of all guns will ever be used in the commission of any type of crime (much less violent crime).

*FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994



FACT: Two-thirds of the people that die each year from gunfire are criminals shooting other criminals.

* FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994



FACT: The national five day waiting period under the Brady Bill had no impact on murder or robbery, but slightly increased rape and aggravated assault rates by a few percent. For these two crime categories, the major effect was to delay law-abiding citizens from getting a gun for protection. The risks were greatest for crimes against women.

* Dr. John Lott Jr., Univ. of Chicago School of Law



FACT: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 per day.

* Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State Univ.

Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminals) is shed.

FACT: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes per day are prevented just by showing a handgun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually ever fired.

* Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State Univ.



FACT: Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times- more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.

* Fall 1995, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology

This means that, each year, firearms are used 65 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.



FACT: Of the 250,000,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.

* U.S. Dept. of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration,

Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities, 1979



MYTH: Concealed Carry Laws Increase Crime

FACT: When citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons:

* Murder rates drop 8%

* Rape rates fall 5%

* Aggravated assaults drop 7%

More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right -to -carry laws.



TYPE OF CRIME HOW MUCH HIGHER IN RESTRICTIVE STATES (states without Concealed carry laws)

Violent Crime ……………………81% higher

Murder ………………………….. 86% higher

Rape …………………………… 25% higher

Assault…………………………… 82% higher

Robbery………………………….. 105% higher

Auto Theft……………………….. 60% higher

* John Lott, David Mustard: This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S. from 1977 through 1992. During this time, ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the U.S. would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults- and would have saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses.

FACT: 92.7% of law enforcement officials believe that citizens should be able to purchase firearms for self-defense and sporting purposes.

* 1999 Police Survey, National Assoc. of Chiefs of Police



MYTH: Police are our protection, and people don't need guns.

FACT: The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect individuals. In Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Dept.,

444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: 'Courts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community.'



FACT: After Canada's 1977 gun controls prohibited handgun possession for self defense, the "breaking and entering" crime rate rose 25%, surpassing the U.S. rate.

* Pat Mayhew, Residential Burglary: A Comparison of the United States,

Canada and England and Wales (Nat'l Inst. Of Just., Wash., D.C., 1987)

MYTH: Japan has strict gun control and a less violent society.

FACT: In Japan, the murder rate is about 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 each year by weapons other than firearms.

* United Nations data


Therefore, if all of the firearms in the U.S. could magically be eliminated, we would still have three times the murder rate of Japan.

Moonpig

Godfather. wrote:

dunkman wrote:

it'd be a fuckload easier if all the pathetic limp wristed gun owners just met up one sunny day in somewhere like Idaho or Iowa and just had a massive cockfight to the death... save us all the frustration and sadness of hearing of yet another maniac going on the rampage.


and when will people get over the kitchen knife/baseball bat/hammers kill people argument???? it's the argumentative equivalent of a 4 year old retard saying "yellow" every time his carer asks him the colour of the sky.

you can piss and moan about guns all you want...but they will NEVER go away.
it might be a fuckload easier if limp wristed pathetic cry babies would just stop whining like a bunch of pre-teen spoiled brats who have zero understanding of the words freedom and rights..other than their right to snivel about issues they have ZERO understanding of, have a nice day.

Godfather.

"Whining like a bunch of pre-teen spoiled brats", really? Come on now, what is that even supposed to mean? I for one think the whole issue of gun control in the States is farcical. I know full we what the words freedom and rights mean, as I'm sure Dunkman does aswell.

And for the record, you have posted about many issues you have freely admitted to having ZERO understanding of and have then, to your credit, educated yourself on the matter, (see not just for the elite). Just because I or anoyone else may have a differing opinion to yours does not for one second mean that my understanding of the subject matter is ZERO. This whole, "de tuk errr guuunnnss" crap is getting really old, in light of what has happened just this weekend.

Enough of this you're an idiot, I'm an idiot school yard pissing contest shit. Embrace diversity mate, jesus that's what I thought your country was founded on.

ed243421

Godfather. wrote:

dunkman wrote:

it'd be a fuckload easier if all the pathetic limp wristed gun owners just met up one sunny day in somewhere like Idaho or Iowa and just had a massive cockfight to the death... save us all the frustration and sadness of hearing of yet another maniac going on the rampage.


and when will people get over the kitchen knife/baseball bat/hammers kill people argument???? it's the argumentative equivalent of a 4 year old retard saying "yellow" every time his carer asks him the colour of the sky.

you can piss and moan about guns all you want...but they will NEVER go away.
it might be a fuckload easier if limp wristed pathetic cry babies would just stop whining like a bunch of pre-teen spoiled brats who have zero understanding of the words freedom and rights..other than their right to snivel about issues they have ZERO understanding of, have a nice day.

Godfather.

g
you
snivel about issues you have ZERO understanding of
every day
plese try to not be so hypocritical of other people's opinions

pandora

dunkman wrote:

i enjoy that 'rights' bullshit... its a right to bear arms... it's only a 'right' cos some wee man with a quill wrote it down on a bit of paper and declared it so... he might have been mentally insufficient to declare that a right... what if it had been a 'right' to 'fist a goat on a sunday' just because someone 300 years ago was into that kinda shit.

stop living in the past america... rights are given and rights are taken away... i'd hate to live my life based on a 300 year old law made in a time when a gun probably was required due to the troubled times of that era... basically we should make it a right for any new fledging country to go around shooting each other... hey Bosnians.. write it down now!!! you have a right to flash 19 year old girls whenever the fuck you want!!!

crazy times for a crazy country.

This is our country, it is a wee small country in age compared to many in the world. We are infants perhaps even embryos compared to Europe. It was founded by claiming freedom from Europe.
Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is the basis to our freedom. I support our freedoms.
There are few troubled times more troubling than now.
If you trust those in power you may see within your lifetime the error in your ways,
this, I hope, will not come to be.

dunkman

HeidiJam wrote:

FACT: In Japan, the murder rate is about 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 each year by weapons other than firearms.

* United Nations data


Therefore, if all of the firearms in the U.S. could magically be eliminated, we would still have three times the murder rate of Japan.

all this proves is that you murder people a lot more than Japan using something OTHER than a gun.

FACT: firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population in one year in the USA is 10.2. In Japan it is 0.07 per 100,000 population.



see? all your showing me is that Japan is doing something right.

Godfather.

ed243421 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

dunkman wrote:

it'd be a fuckload easier if all the pathetic limp wristed gun owners just met up one sunny day in somewhere like Idaho or Iowa and just had a massive cockfight to the death... save us all the frustration and sadness of hearing of yet another maniac going on the rampage.


and when will people get over the kitchen knife/baseball bat/hammers kill people argument???? it's the argumentative equivalent of a 4 year old retard saying "yellow" every time his carer asks him the colour of the sky.

you can piss and moan about guns all you want...but they will NEVER go away.
it might be a fuckload easier if limp wristed pathetic cry babies would just stop whining like a bunch of pre-teen spoiled brats who have zero understanding of the words freedom and rights..other than their right to snivel about issues they have ZERO understanding of, have a nice day.

Godfather.

g
you
snivel about issues you have ZERO understanding of
every day
plese try to not be so hypocritical of other people's opinions

they should choose their words more carefully.

Godfather.

dunkman

Godfather. wrote:

dunkman wrote:

it'd be a fuckload easier if all the pathetic limp wristed gun owners just met up one sunny day in somewhere like Idaho or Iowa and just had a massive cockfight to the death... save us all the frustration and sadness of hearing of yet another maniac going on the rampage.


and when will people get over the kitchen knife/baseball bat/hammers kill people argument???? it's the argumentative equivalent of a 4 year old retard saying "yellow" every time his carer asks him the colour of the sky.

you can piss and moan about guns all you want...but they will NEVER go away.
it might be a fuckload easier if limp wristed pathetic cry babies would just stop whining like a bunch of pre-teen spoiled brats who have zero understanding of the words freedom and rights..other than their right to snivel about issues they have ZERO understanding of, have a nice day.

Godfather.

i do understand it... I'm good with history, so I know about archaic and backward laws that people will follow like armed sheep under the guise of ignorance and patriotism.

Blockhead

dunkman wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

FACT: In Japan, the murder rate is about 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 each year by weapons other than firearms.

* United Nations data


Therefore, if all of the firearms in the U.S. could magically be eliminated, we would still have three times the murder rate of Japan.

all this proves is that you murder people a lot more than Japan using something OTHER than a gun.

FACT: firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population in one year in the USA is 10.2. In Japan it is 0.07 per 100,000 population.




see? all your showing me is that Japan is doing something right.

Great job ignoring all the other facts... The point is that violent crimes happen, taking away guns from law abiding citizens will only do more damage. Whats your plan then?

VINNY GOOMBA

Cliffy6745 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Blame an object instead of focusing on the real issue. Brilliant.

Aren't you the one who always claims that if people were allowed to carry guns things like the Arizona shooting wouldn't happen? Well? Arizona allows concealed weapons so how does that philosophy hold up today?

I'm not familiar witih the laws out there in AZ-- but are they similar to the concealed carry laws like in New York, where as you probably know, it takes you about a year to get a handgun after all of the paperwork, visits to judges, fees, and background checks? It is pretty discouraging to handgun ownership here, but technically you CAN carry, but it's not easy to-- and I only know a handful of people that actually do. If the same thing were to happen here in NY, a police officer would likely be the first line of defense, and it might have been effective in stopping this (assuming he or she wasn't writing someone else ticket for some bullshit offense) since you pretty much need a cop to be present just to wipe your ass in this state. In Texas, 20 civillians might have had their guns drawn on the guy before he fired the shot. Who knows? It's a horrible tragedy either way.

The real question is, do gun laws ever stop a truly violent criminal from doing damage? How many violent crimes are committed with illegal firearms? I'm willing to wager the majority. I do believe in the right to protect yourself whether it was scribbled on a piece of paper 300 years ago or not. I am not a fan of guns, but I am all for leveling the playing field-- criminals will always have access to guns, and therefore, so should law-abiding citizens.

I also believe in citizens being armed in the (unlikely) event that the government DOES go well beyond its allowable use of force-- this also goes for any foreign country who might attempt an occupation on our soil-- again, unlikely, but I see it as a deterrent against aggression, and an insurance policy.

It is very possible that people can be progressive enough to not want or need guns no matter what the laws say. If people want to stop the number one cause of deaths related to gun violence worldwide, there should be a greater movement to stop MILITARY AGGRESSION. Guns and gun violence are most prevalent in places where people feel threatened, from Afghanistan to the most ghetto cities in America-- the places where people live in fear, and are under oppression by some outside force. The solution to gun violence (and violence in general) is a freer society, where people do have more opportunities and more for themselves, and therefore less need to forcefully impose themselves on others. I believe that there is no 100% complete and utopic solution, but allowing people to be more self-determining will probably even decrease the amount of crazy people liable to "snap" if they are given more true control over their lives. After all, what is paranoia but irrational fear? I think in cases like this guy in Arizona his irrational fear grew out of some unnecessary legitimate fears and were allowed to spiral out of control. It's sad to say, it's not going to get any better out there anytime soon-- let's just try and take care of each other the best we can.

dunkman

pandora wrote:

There are few troubled times more troubling than now.
If you trust those in power you may see within your lifetime the error in your ways,
this, I hope, will not come to be.

Yoda?

are you suggesting that if i trsut my democratically elected government I may see the error of my ways?

some of you need to get a reality check...