Don't Ask, Don't Tell repealed

catefrances

Drowned Out wrote:

Best of Times wrote:

Thank you. In one post, you've reiterated your support for sexual harrassment by claiming that texpecting a sexual harrassment-free workplace is "asking for special treatment"; and minimalized the crime by suggesting that the time subjected to said behavior is minimal, seeing that a person only showers, what, once or twice a day? No matter what sex, or sexual orientation, your argument is abhorent and any decent person would tell you that.

Do you have a problem showering with straight guys?
Are you SURE they're straight? You could be showering with closeted-gay men and have no problem with it...but the knowledge that they're gay is what is making you uncomforable. That tells me that it is an internal problem YOU have, not a problem the military should define policy as a result of.

Your moral arguments have been put to bed....I can't believe this has become the crux of your argument. How difficult or costly would it be for the military to put up partion walls in communal showers so that the homophobes don't have to be seen naked? Probably a lot less than one frickin dolphin with lasers. I've seen vids from military camps in Iraq, in which it looks like the showers ARE partioned. I don't know if that's the standard...but if so...your complaint becomes about being seen naked while parading around a dressing room with your junk swingin low....which is your choice. Where a towel, sheesh.

but he shouldnt have to wear a towel.. he should be able to gambol about the showers with his junk 'swinging low'.

Prince Of Dorkness

Best of Times wrote:

Thank you. In one post, you've reiterated your support for sexual harrassment by claiming that texpecting a sexual harrassment-free workplace is "asking for special treatment"; and minimalized the crime by suggesting that the time subjected to said behavior is minimal, seeing that a person only showers, what, once or twice a day? No matter what sex, or sexual orientation, your argument is abhorent and any decent person would tell you that.

Well, no... in many posts, you've made yourself look like a paranoid wuss. Thinking that eye contact from a gay person is "sexual harassment." It's pretty clear you don't know what "sexual harassment" is. Following your logic, girl watching at the beach is "sexual harassment."

My argument isn't abhorrent. And 70% of America agrees with me, so there goes your "any decent person" statement.

Gay people are all perfectly capable of maintaining a professional demeanor in an environment like the military. Your hysterical fears that every gay person wants to rape you are out-dated and laughable caricatures from 1950s "don't let this happen to you" school movies.

If a gay man, straight man or woman, lesbian or otherwise, isn't able to carry out their duty without being a creepy perv, they're out of the military. Do you really need the government to protect you like that?

Drowned Out

catefrances wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Where a towel, sheesh.

but he shouldnt have to wear a towel.. he should be able to gambol about the showers with his junk 'swinging low'.

Right, for all the straight guys to observe.
Damnit, you quoted my glaring spelling mistake. Thanks for not correcting me

catefrances

Drowned Out wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Where a towel, sheesh.

but he shouldnt have to wear a towel.. he should be able to gambol about the showers with his junk 'swinging low'.

Right, for all the straight guys to observe.
Damnit, you quoted my glaring spelling mistake. Thanks for not correcting me

its like guys slapping other guys arses is ONLY allowable in a sporting type situation. for encouragement and congratulations.

Prince Of Dorkness

catefrances wrote:

its like guys slapping other guys arses is ONLY allowable in a sporting type situation. for encouragement and congratulations.

Back in college when I played football, I was always getting in trouble for penetrating deep into the wide receiver's end zone.

And I got sacked a LOT. Never understood why people were so grumpy about that.

catefrances

Jasunmark wrote:

catefrances wrote:

its like guys slapping other guys arses is ONLY allowable in a sporting type situation. for encouragement and congratulations.

Back in college when I played football, I was always getting in trouble for penetrating deep into the wide receiver's end zone.

And I got sacked a LOT. Never understood why people were so grumpy about that.

i bet you were a tight end.

Prince Of Dorkness

catefrances wrote:

i bet you were a tight end.

I refuse to answer that question on the basis that I've already had a talking-to about going off topic. :evil:

catefrances

Jasunmark wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i bet you were a tight end.

I refuse to answer that question on the basis that I've already had a talking-to about going off topic. :evil:

ill take that as a yes.

JonnyPistachio

Best of Times wrote:

JohnnyP:

The "pivotal word" you used was not "sometimes"- it was "hear". You don't know. You "hear". Check your sources.

way to dodge every important point I made..
the fun that is associated with your drivel is running out around here.
yet you still wont answer if you've watched porn. you know the point I am making
You think that someone who directs porn is BELOW you, but you regret to admit that you watch porn yourself, so you are no better than the people who you look down your nose at...
lol, integrity!? thats a funny imaginable high horse I see there.

JonnyPistachio

Best of Times wrote:

You said that a Marine "who couldn't handle some guy taking a sideways glance at his junk" in the shower wasn't "man enough to be a Marine." That is a blatant sexual harrassment scenario, which you suggested a "real man" should tolerate.

Blatant sexual hararassment? seriously? wow.
I'm out, i forgot there is a limit to credibility..

Kel Varnsen

Jasunmark wrote:

I disagree.

Many countries have integrated gay men and lesbians into their militaries. And the deaths, disaster and crumbling of the volunteer force hasn't happened in a single one. It's an option I wish had been available to me when I was 18.[/quote]

Not only that but US military forces serve with British military in Iraq and Canadian military in Afganistan. Both those countries allow openly gay people to serve. So how come you don't here stories about US army guys in those countries freaking out because they were forced to work, or potentially work, with a gay soldier in an actual warzone?

Best of Times

Drowned Out wrote:

Best of Times wrote:

Thank you. In one post, you've reiterated your support for sexual harrassment by claiming that texpecting a sexual harrassment-free workplace is "asking for special treatment"; and minimalized the crime by suggesting that the time subjected to said behavior is minimal, seeing that a person only showers, what, once or twice a day? No matter what sex, or sexual orientation, your argument is abhorent and any decent person would tell you that.

Do you have a problem showering with straight guys?
Are you SURE they're straight? You could be showering with closeted-gay men and have no problem with it...but the knowledge that they're gay is what is making you uncomforable. That tells me that it is an internal problem YOU have, not a problem the military should define policy as a result of.

Your moral arguments have been put to bed....I can't believe this has become the crux of your argument. How difficult or costly would it be for the military to put up partion walls in communal showers so that the homophobes don't have to be seen naked? Probably a lot less than one frickin dolphin with lasers. I've seen vids from military camps in Iraq, in which it looks like the showers ARE partioned. I don't know if that's the standard...but if so...your complaint becomes about being seen naked while parading around a dressing room with your junk swingin low....which is your choice. Wear a towel, sheesh.

another advocate for gay sexual harrassment. I'll just let you, in your infinite wisdom, decide who gets to look at who and when, and who has the right to protection from criminal behavior and who doesn't.

Whatever.

The logistical problem for implementation is real, and will require new facilities for showers, bathrooms and sleeping- both in stateside and deployed locations. It will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and will take time. I can tell you that if you "come out" right now, or in the next 60 days, you are still subject to court martial. You that out off about what's the big deal? A billion dollar implementation may not be a big deal to people who think studying cow farts and cocaine use in monkeys to stop global warming is a vital use of taxpayer dollars, but to the military, it is a big deal. And you don't just hand out a few towels and say, "eh, whats a little gay sodomy in the workplace? Deal w/ it." In the Age of the Trial Lawyer, every base must be covered so to speak. As Biden would say, "Its a big F'n deal!!"

Best of Times

Jasunmark wrote:

Best of Times wrote:

Thank you. In one post, you've reiterated your support for sexual harrassment by claiming that texpecting a sexual harrassment-free workplace is "asking for special treatment"; and minimalized the crime by suggesting that the time subjected to said behavior is minimal, seeing that a person only showers, what, once or twice a day? No matter what sex, or sexual orientation, your argument is abhorent and any decent person would tell you that.

Well, no... in many posts, you've made yourself look like a paranoid wuss. Thinking that eye contact from a gay person is "sexual harassment." It's pretty clear you don't know what "sexual harassment" is. Following your logic, girl watching at the beach is "sexual harassment."

My argument isn't abhorrent. And 70% of America agrees with me, so there goes your "any decent person" statement.

Gay people are all perfectly capable of maintaining a professional demeanor in an environment like the military. Your hysterical fears that every gay person wants to rape you are out-dated and laughable caricatures from 1950s "don't let this happen to you" school movies.

If a gay man, straight man or woman, lesbian or otherwise, isn't able to carry out their duty without being a creepy perv, they're out of the military. Do you really need the government to protect you like that?

You didnt say "EYE CONTACT". You said "SOME GUY (implying a gay Marine) WANTS TO TAKE A SIDEWAYS GLANCE AT YOUR JUNK".

Now you're describing behavior that in no way approaches the sexual harrsssment that you initially described- don't twist it now. Just say that its wrong for anyone to do it- EVER- regardless of sex, sex orientation, etc.
You know that is right....

I, in no way, feel or have expressed "hysterical fears that every gay person wants to rape (me)", as you said. I've said nothing of the kind. You're trying to distract from a post you probably wish you'd said differently, b/c sex.harass. is WRONG all the time.

Best of Times

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Best of Times wrote:

You said that a Marine "who couldn't handle some guy taking a sideways glance at his junk" in the shower wasn't "man enough to be a Marine." That is a blatant sexual harrassment scenario, which you suggested a "real man" should tolerate.

Blatant sexual hararassment? seriously? wow.
I'm out, i forgot there is a limit to credibility..

Sexual harrasssment is defined by the victim, not the aggressor. If you're unsure, look up the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)- you can read for yourself.

You act all offended, like I made up the fckn law myself. geez.... If you want credibility, read a book before getting your panties twisted, then you might have some facts in your head, which fosters understanding, and replaces fear of the unknown; that is to say, ignorance.

keeponrockin

I wonder how many cases there are of gay men looking at each other in the shower now, seeing as there are gay men and women. I don't see how its a problem, I'm a 19 year old straight male, and there have been some cases where female friends and I have to change in the same room (going out from a hotel party, etc...). Have any one of them ever felt violated by me being there? No. They're fucking tits. If I can keep it under control while drunk, I'd bet that 99.99% of people can keep it under control when in a military situation.

Sneak a peek?

http://www.tbs.com/video/index/0,,72933||,00.html

JonnyPistachio

Best of Times wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Best of Times wrote:

You said that a Marine "who couldn't handle some guy taking a sideways glance at his junk" in the shower wasn't "man enough to be a Marine." That is a blatant sexual harrassment scenario, which you suggested a "real man" should tolerate.

Blatant sexual hararassment? seriously? wow.
I'm out, i forgot there is a limit to credibility..

Sexual harrasssment is defined by the victim, not the aggressor. If you're unsure, look up the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)- you can read for yourself.

You act all offended, like I made up the fckn law myself. geez.... If you want credibility, read a book before getting your panties twisted, then you might have some facts in your head, which fosters understanding, and replaces fear of the unknown; that is to say, ignorance.

Of course it is defined by the victim, but if someone "claims" they've been sexually harrassed becuase someone looked at them, they arent likely going to get anywhere with that.

In one post you're talking about gay soldiers threatening to sue and shit over their treatment, and the next sentence, you are talking about a soldier claiming blatant sexual harrassment for someone glancing at them? Just sounds twisted man.

Still watch porn? haha

Best of Times

keeponrockin wrote:

I wonder how many cases there are of gay men looking at each other in the shower now, seeing as there are gay men and women. I don't see how its a problem, I'm a 19 year old straight male, and there have been some cases where female friends and I have to change in the same room (going out from a hotel party, etc...). Have any one of them ever felt violated by me being there? No. They're fucking tits. If I can keep it under control while drunk, I'd bet that 99.99% of people can keep it under control when in a military situation.

Sneak a peek?

http://www.tbs.com/video/index/0,,72933||,00.html

Oh. Ok. Well as long as keeponrockin can manage not to nut himself when one of his girlfriends that likes him, but doesn't "like him, like him" changes clothes- ya, that's all the study we needed. Shit, I was worried implementing the largest policy change since the integration of women into the military would be a logistical and legal nightmare... phew! what a relief. Christ.

Best of Times

JohnnyP:

responding to scenario presented by JasunMark- not my own. THAT scenario was NOT "someone looking at them" as you put it, or "eye contact", as Jasonmark tried to change it to later. Re-read the origin of this.

Is there an eight yr old out there that can teach me how to quote properly? I suck.

JonnyPistachio

Best of Times wrote:

JohnnyP:

responding to scenario presented by JasunMark- not my own. THAT scenario was NOT "someone looking at them" as you put it, or "eye contact", as Jasonmark tried to change it to later. Re-read the origin of this.

Is there an eight yr old out there that can teach me how to quote properly? I suck.

(There's a 'qoute' button at the top right of each post)

Here's what JasunMark Said:

Jasunmark wrote:

I figure if just having some guy take a sideways glance at your junk is going to upset you that much, you're probably not man enough to be a marine anyway.

That's not goin to stand up as blatant sexual harrassment as you said.

keeponrockin

Best of Times wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

I wonder how many cases there are of gay men looking at each other in the shower now, seeing as there are gay men and women. I don't see how its a problem, I'm a 19 year old straight male, and there have been some cases where female friends and I have to change in the same room (going out from a hotel party, etc...). Have any one of them ever felt violated by me being there? No. They're fucking tits. If I can keep it under control while drunk, I'd bet that 99.99% of people can keep it under control when in a military situation.

Sneak a peek?

http://www.tbs.com/video/index/0,,72933||,00.html

Oh. Ok. Well as long as keeponrockin can manage not to nut himself when one of his girlfriends that likes him, but doesn't "like him, like him" changes clothes- ya, that's all the study we needed. Shit, I was worried implementing the largest policy change since the integration of women into the military would be a logistical and legal nightmare... phew! what a relief. Christ.

I'm not saying that it's the be all and end all, I believe most people could handle their shit in this sort of situation...