The logistical problem for implementation is real, and will require new facilities for showers, bathrooms and sleeping- both in stateside and deployed locations. It will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and will take time. I can tell you that if you "come out" right now, or in the next 60 days, you are still subject to court martial. You that out off about what's the big deal? A billion dollar implementation may not be a big deal to people who think studying cow farts and cocaine use in monkeys to stop global warming is a vital use of taxpayer dollars, but to the military, it is a big deal. And you don't just hand out a few towels and say, "eh, whats a little gay sodomy in the workplace? Deal w/ it." In the Age of the Trial Lawyer, every base must be covered so to speak. As Biden would say, "Its a big F'n deal!!"
Why would they have to have separate facilities? I can tell you for certain that the Canadian Military allows gay soldiers to serve and they don't have separate facilities. Are US soldiers that undisciplined that they need separate sleeping and washroom facilities for gay and straight soldiers to keep anything bad from happening?
responding to scenario presented by JasunMark- not my own. THAT scenario was NOT "someone looking at them" as you put it, or "eye contact", as Jasonmark tried to change it to later. Re-read the origin of this.
Is there an eight yr old out there that can teach me how to quote properly? I suck.
(There's a 'qoute' button at the top right of each post)
I figure if just having some guy take a sideways glance at your junk is going to upset you that much, you're probably not man enough to be a marine anyway.
That's not goin to stand up as blatant sexual harrassment as you said.
Again, it's defined by the victim, not the aggressor. If a straight person felt that the gay person was staring at them inappropriately, and reported it to their commanding officer- there would be a full investigation, and very possibly, charges. I'm just saying that is an example of only one of the many, many issues that the military is having to consider, assess risks for, and plan for... I'm not giving MY definition- I would probably ignore it, or speak to that person directly if it persisted- but the military doesn't have the luxury of hoping that a transition goes smoothly, they have a duty to ensure that it does- and that will probably mean different shower facilities- they haven't told us yet.
thanks for the quote help- I'm fine until I get more than 3 quotes- then I'm lost.
The logistical problem for implementation is real, and will require new facilities for showers, bathrooms and sleeping- both in stateside and deployed locations. It will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and will take time. I can tell you that if you "come out" right now, or in the next 60 days, you are still subject to court martial. You that out off about what's the big deal? A billion dollar implementation may not be a big deal to people who think studying cow farts and cocaine use in monkeys to stop global warming is a vital use of taxpayer dollars, but to the military, it is a big deal. And you don't just hand out a few towels and say, "eh, whats a little gay sodomy in the workplace? Deal w/ it." In the Age of the Trial Lawyer, every base must be covered so to speak. As Biden would say, "Its a big F'n deal!!"
Why would they have to have separate facilities? I can tell you for certain that the Canadian Military allows gay soldiers to serve and they don't have separate facilities. Are US soldiers that undisciplined that they need separate sleeping and washroom facilities for gay and straight soldiers to keep anything bad from happening?
People have sex. Even while at war. Can you imagine what would happen if the military went co-ed facilities? Jesus. We spend half our time in Sex Assault/ Sex Harrass training as it is. I can tell you- it is a BIG problem- one of the biggest.
It has to do w/ discipline-yes- but some people just can't keep their clothes on- even when their career is on the line. So the military can't take the chance. If one kid gets killed b/c of a gay-hate type scenario, and separate facilities were not afforded to guard against such situations- Heads will roll!! Heads w/ stars on their shoulders if you know what I mean (generals). So no, they won't take those chances, and yes, I believe there wll be different facilities. Like I said, they haven't told us yet.
responding to scenario presented by JasunMark- not my own. THAT scenario was NOT "someone looking at them" as you put it, or "eye contact", as Jasonmark tried to change it to later. Re-read the origin of this.
Is there an eight yr old out there that can teach me how to quote properly? I suck.
(There's a 'qoute' button at the top right of each post)
I figure if just having some guy take a sideways glance at your junk is going to upset you that much, you're probably not man enough to be a marine anyway.
That's not goin to stand up as blatant sexual harrassment as you said.
Again, it's defined by the victim, not the aggressor. If a straight person felt that the gay person was staring at them inappropriately, and reported it to their commanding officer- there would be a full investigation, and very possibly, charges. I'm just saying that is an example of only one of the many, many issues that the military is having to consider, assess risks for, and plan for... I'm not giving MY definition- I would probably ignore it, or speak to that person directly if it persisted- but the military doesn't have the luxury of hoping that a transition goes smoothly, they have a duty to ensure that it does- and that will probably mean different shower facilities- they haven't told us yet.
thanks for the quote help- I'm fine until I get more than 3 quotes- then I'm lost.
I get it man. But we've spun off here -- And the point I was making -- that you called what he said: the glance at someones junk, 'blatant sexual harrassment'... these attitudes are what is going to make this transition difficult. of course its defined by the victim, but we all know here that that is NOT blatant sexual harrassment.
But separate facilities is probably a good idea.
The logistical problem for implementation is real, and will require new facilities for showers, bathrooms and sleeping- both in stateside and deployed locations. It will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and will take time. I can tell you that if you "come out" right now, or in the next 60 days, you are still subject to court martial. You that out off about what's the big deal? A billion dollar implementation may not be a big deal to people who think studying cow farts and cocaine use in monkeys to stop global warming is a vital use of taxpayer dollars, but to the military, it is a big deal. And you don't just hand out a few towels and say, "eh, whats a little gay sodomy in the workplace? Deal w/ it." In the Age of the Trial Lawyer, every base must be covered so to speak. As Biden would say, "Its a big F'n deal!!"
Why would they have to have separate facilities? I can tell you for certain that the Canadian Military allows gay soldiers to serve and they don't have separate facilities. Are US soldiers that undisciplined that they need separate sleeping and washroom facilities for gay and straight soldiers to keep anything bad from happening?
People have sex. Even while at war. Can you imagine what would happen if the military went co-ed facilities? Jesus. We spend half our time in Sex Assault/ Sex Harrass training as it is. I can tell you- it is a BIG problem- one of the biggest.
It has to do w/ discipline-yes- but some people just can't keep their clothes on- even when their career is on the line. So the military can't take the chance. If one kid gets killed b/c of a gay-hate type scenario, and separate facilities were not afforded to guard against such situations- Heads will roll!! Heads w/ stars on their shoulders if you know what I mean (generals). So no, they won't take those chances, and yes, I believe there wll be different facilities. Like I said, they haven't told us yet.
But then I ask again, if other militaries around the world can manage to intergrate gay soldiers without having to build separate facilities for them why wouldn't the US military?
So now we want 'separate but equal'... Where have I heard that before?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
KEL V said:
But then I ask again, if other militaries around the world can manage to intergrate gay soldiers without having to build separate facilities for them why wouldn't the US military?[/quote]
It's a good/fair question. I just don't know.... I know I wish I had Canada's military mission right now instead of ours... shit... do I ever!
And to Satan'sbed: quit taking sideways glances at my junk.....
So now we want 'separate but equal'... Where have I heard that before?
"We"? Did u just out yourself?
Not 'we' sorry. And no, I'm not gay, but it seems a lot of members of the GOP are pushing for separate dressing rooms, barracks, etc...
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
So now we want 'separate but equal'... Where have I heard that before?
Yeah, sadly, the "separate but equal" thing is thrown at our community a lot.
Look at our "equal" marriage equivalent of "domestic partnerships" which come with about 15% of the rights, protections and responsibilities that Britney Spears got by stumbling drunk into a chapel in Vegas with some guy.
The logistical problem for implementation is real, and will require new facilities for showers, bathrooms and sleeping- both in stateside and deployed locations. It will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and will take time. I can tell you that if you "come out" right now, or in the next 60 days, you are still subject to court martial. You that out off about what's the big deal? A billion dollar implementation may not be a big deal to people who think studying cow farts and cocaine use in monkeys to stop global warming is a vital use of taxpayer dollars, but to the military, it is a big deal. And you don't just hand out a few towels and say, "eh, whats a little gay sodomy in the workplace? Deal w/ it." In the Age of the Trial Lawyer, every base must be covered so to speak. As Biden would say, "Its a big F'n deal!!"
Why would they have to have separate facilities? I can tell you for certain that the Canadian Military allows gay soldiers to serve and they don't have separate facilities. Are US soldiers that undisciplined that they need separate sleeping and washroom facilities for gay and straight soldiers to keep anything bad from happening?
People have sex. Even while at war. Can you imagine what would happen if the military went co-ed facilities? Jesus. We spend half our time in Sex Assault/ Sex Harrass training as it is. I can tell you- it is a BIG problem- one of the biggest.
It has to do w/ discipline-yes- but some people just can't keep their clothes on- even when their career is on the line. So the military can't take the chance. If one kid gets killed b/c of a gay-hate type scenario, and separate facilities were not afforded to guard against such situations- Heads will roll!! Heads w/ stars on their shoulders if you know what I mean (generals). So no, they won't take those chances, and yes, I believe there wll be different facilities. Like I said, they haven't told us yet.
so your solution is to segregate the easily offended straights from the gays? why dont we just kit the gays out with pink cammo and be done with it... that way everyone will be able to primarily identify them as gay rather than as just another fellow soldier. sheesh. :roll:
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Isn't it the gay's that want everyone to know that they are gay? Hence the law that just passed.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Isn't it the gay's that want everyone to know that they are gay? Hence the law that just passed.
its not that they want everyone to know theyre gay, tis that they dont want to be stigmatised by the need to stay in the closet cause others cant handle nonstraight people. theyre not ashamed of who they are so why should we straights?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Isn't it the gay's that want everyone to know that they are gay? Hence the law that just passed.
Funny... but straight people seem to tell me they're straight an awful lot. If they're not wearing wedding rings and putting pictures of their families on their desks at work, they're parading down the street honking their horns waving "JUST MARRIED" signs down main street or constantly talking about "my girlfriend" or "my boyfriend."
Turn on the TV and it seems that just about every TV show centers around straight people.
I mean... I don't have anything against straight people... both of my parents and one of my brothers is straight... but you have to push it in my face like that?
Isn't it the gay's that want everyone to know that they are gay? Hence the law that just passed.
OK... all kidding aside...
It's not that we want everyone to "know" that we're gay. It's that I shouldn't have to live in fear that you might find out and ruin my life out of spite.
Why would they have to have separate facilities? I can tell you for certain that the Canadian Military allows gay soldiers to serve and they don't have separate facilities. Are US soldiers that undisciplined that they need separate sleeping and washroom facilities for gay and straight soldiers to keep anything bad from happening?
People have sex. Even while at war. Can you imagine what would happen if the military went co-ed facilities? Jesus. We spend half our time in Sex Assault/ Sex Harrass training as it is. I can tell you- it is a BIG problem- one of the biggest.
It has to do w/ discipline-yes- but some people just can't keep their clothes on- even when their career is on the line. So the military can't take the chance. If one kid gets killed b/c of a gay-hate type scenario, and separate facilities were not afforded to guard against such situations- Heads will roll!! Heads w/ stars on their shoulders if you know what I mean (generals). So no, they won't take those chances, and yes, I believe there wll be different facilities. Like I said, they haven't told us yet.
so your solution is to segregate the easily offended straights from the gays? why dont we just kit the gays out with pink cammo and be done with it... that way everyone will be able to primarily identify them as gay rather than as just another fellow soldier. sheesh. :roll:
Maybe on the safe side too they should have separate gay officers clubs and lounges. That way an intolerant straight service person, won't accidentally drink an appletini or be forced to listen to a show tune. Since really all this talk about separate facilities, really seems to be more about accomodating intolerant people then it is about accomodating gay people.
Maybe on the safe side too they should have separate gay officers clubs and lounges. That way an intolerant straight service person, won't accidentally drink an appletini or be forced to listen to a show tune. Since really all this talk about separate facilities, really seems to be more about accomodating intolerant people then it is about accomodating gay people.
I remember taking a co-worker to a diner in the gay neighbourhood in Toronto a few years ago. He was only "ok" with the gay thing... he and I got along well but he was uncomfortable with too much gaiety around him.
I decided it was time to hold him under for a bit.
We walked into the diner and he almost went into a panic when he saw the PG-rated Herb Ritts and Tom of Finland drawings on the walls.. when he saw the gay staff and the ironic "PeterBilt" trucker caps on the mannequins behind the bar. It was all pretty harmless but he was genuinely nervous.
I looked at him and asked "So... are you most worried that you're going to trip on the floor and accidentally blow the waiter?"
He laughed and realized what a tool he was being. When they're not comfortable with us being gay... it makes them terrified that it's just not that big a deal to us.
Comments
Why would they have to have separate facilities? I can tell you for certain that the Canadian Military allows gay soldiers to serve and they don't have separate facilities. Are US soldiers that undisciplined that they need separate sleeping and washroom facilities for gay and straight soldiers to keep anything bad from happening?
Again, it's defined by the victim, not the aggressor. If a straight person felt that the gay person was staring at them inappropriately, and reported it to their commanding officer- there would be a full investigation, and very possibly, charges. I'm just saying that is an example of only one of the many, many issues that the military is having to consider, assess risks for, and plan for... I'm not giving MY definition- I would probably ignore it, or speak to that person directly if it persisted- but the military doesn't have the luxury of hoping that a transition goes smoothly, they have a duty to ensure that it does- and that will probably mean different shower facilities- they haven't told us yet.
thanks for the quote help- I'm fine until I get more than 3 quotes- then I'm lost.
People have sex. Even while at war. Can you imagine what would happen if the military went co-ed facilities? Jesus. We spend half our time in Sex Assault/ Sex Harrass training as it is. I can tell you- it is a BIG problem- one of the biggest.
It has to do w/ discipline-yes- but some people just can't keep their clothes on- even when their career is on the line. So the military can't take the chance. If one kid gets killed b/c of a gay-hate type scenario, and separate facilities were not afforded to guard against such situations- Heads will roll!! Heads w/ stars on their shoulders if you know what I mean (generals). So no, they won't take those chances, and yes, I believe there wll be different facilities. Like I said, they haven't told us yet.
I get it man. But we've spun off here -- And the point I was making -- that you called what he said: the glance at someones junk, 'blatant sexual harrassment'... these attitudes are what is going to make this transition difficult. of course its defined by the victim, but we all know here that that is NOT blatant sexual harrassment.
But separate facilities is probably a good idea.
But then I ask again, if other militaries around the world can manage to intergrate gay soldiers without having to build separate facilities for them why wouldn't the US military?
geez. I feel like we were having an intelligent discussion- but then I read this.
Get serious man. Can't even reply to that.
"We"? Did u just out yourself?
yet you did reply...
But then I ask again, if other militaries around the world can manage to intergrate gay soldiers without having to build separate facilities for them why wouldn't the US military?[/quote]
It's a good/fair question. I just don't know.... I know I wish I had Canada's military mission right now instead of ours... shit... do I ever!
And to Satan'sbed: quit taking sideways glances at my junk.....
Careful what you wish for.
Canada has about 3,000 troops in Afghanistan and has suffered the highest per-capita casualty rate of any coalition member.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40364096/ns ... -americas/
way to discount the contribution of your allies, tho.
Yeah, sadly, the "separate but equal" thing is thrown at our community a lot.
Look at our "equal" marriage equivalent of "domestic partnerships" which come with about 15% of the rights, protections and responsibilities that Britney Spears got by stumbling drunk into a chapel in Vegas with some guy.
Yeah, I get a little wild on Sundays too.
so your solution is to segregate the easily offended straights from the gays? why dont we just kit the gays out with pink cammo and be done with it... that way everyone will be able to primarily identify them as gay rather than as just another fellow soldier. sheesh. :roll:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
its not that they want everyone to know theyre gay, tis that they dont want to be stigmatised by the need to stay in the closet cause others cant handle nonstraight people. theyre not ashamed of who they are so why should we straights?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Funny... but straight people seem to tell me they're straight an awful lot. If they're not wearing wedding rings and putting pictures of their families on their desks at work, they're parading down the street honking their horns waving "JUST MARRIED" signs down main street or constantly talking about "my girlfriend" or "my boyfriend."
Turn on the TV and it seems that just about every TV show centers around straight people.
I mean... I don't have anything against straight people... both of my parents and one of my brothers is straight... but you have to push it in my face like that?
OK... all kidding aside...
It's not that we want everyone to "know" that we're gay. It's that I shouldn't have to live in fear that you might find out and ruin my life out of spite.
Maybe on the safe side too they should have separate gay officers clubs and lounges. That way an intolerant straight service person, won't accidentally drink an appletini or be forced to listen to a show tune. Since really all this talk about separate facilities, really seems to be more about accomodating intolerant people then it is about accomodating gay people.
I remember taking a co-worker to a diner in the gay neighbourhood in Toronto a few years ago. He was only "ok" with the gay thing... he and I got along well but he was uncomfortable with too much gaiety around him.
I decided it was time to hold him under for a bit.
We walked into the diner and he almost went into a panic when he saw the PG-rated Herb Ritts and Tom of Finland drawings on the walls.. when he saw the gay staff and the ironic "PeterBilt" trucker caps on the mannequins behind the bar. It was all pretty harmless but he was genuinely nervous.
I looked at him and asked "So... are you most worried that you're going to trip on the floor and accidentally blow the waiter?"
He laughed and realized what a tool he was being. When they're not comfortable with us being gay... it makes them terrified that it's just not that big a deal to us.
Yeah I don't know what that means.
I just want to be introduced to Nikki Benz, so waddya say?
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Oh shoot.... can that really happen?
well said....
why do you think so many of my people are waiters? you think we like the uniforms?